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(Reuters)   Britain to India: You know that big-ass diamond we stole from you about 150 years ago? Yeah, you're never getting that back   (reuters.com) divider line 99
    More: Obvious, Britain, Non-combatant, Koh, Tower of London, Mahatma Gandhi, Queen Elizabeth I, British Museum, cultural institutions  
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18668 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Feb 2013 at 3:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-21 02:15:47 PM
13 votes:
"One of the world's largest diamonds, some Indians - including independence leader Mahatma Gandhi's grandson - have demanded its return to atone for Britain's colonial past. "

So one diamond will atone for Britain's colonial wrongdoings?  No?  Then giving it back is only the first in a line of  "atonement" gestures to be demanded later by India.

I actually agree with the British on this one; nip this stunt of theirs in the bud.
2013-02-21 03:50:24 PM
6 votes:
People have been taking other people's shiat for a LONG time now.  If this was a Toyota Corolla you might get it back.  This is a gem that was presented to the queen of England (who was the state leader of your country at the time, whether you like that or not) and set in a crown.  It is now one of the symbols of state of a nation that ruled the whole of India for more than 100 years.

You can pretend that it rightfully belongs to you now if you really MUST, but you don't have any more claim to it than anyone else India.  Some serf dug the thing out of the farking ground 600 years ago and promptly got bludgeoned to shiat by his lord or mine owner or whatever, and the thing changed hands by invasion and war for a few hundred years till the brits took it and put it in a hat because it was really big.  It hasn't been in your country in almost 200 years, and for 400 before that its ownership was murky due to all the people getting murdered to seize it on a regular basis.

Nobody has clean hands in this, and the best you can do is say, "Well it was from OUR ground 600 years back," which nobody farking cares about except for you because you have a vested interest in people thinking it should be yours.
2013-02-21 03:16:22 PM
6 votes:

Somacandra: The moral of the story: colonialism sucks ass (the bad kind), no matter how hard Dinesh D'Souza tries to polish that turd.


It's hard to complain too hard about British colonialism. They tended to leave places in better condition than they found them.

\Now Belgian colonialism...
2013-02-21 02:39:50 PM
6 votes:
Reuters, when I click a link about a big ass diamond set into the royal crown, I want to see a picture of that big ass diamond, not David Cameron channeling Omar from The Wire. That said, sorry France, you're not getting the Hope Diamond back either. Should've put some heavier security around the French Blue.
2013-02-21 03:40:34 PM
4 votes:

hitlersbrain: You can grow diamonds pretty cheap in a lab. They are actually quite worthless. The only way to tell which ones were dug out of the ground by some dying African slave worker is by looking for the imperfections that are hard to fake. The more perfect the diamond, the less value it has.

/people be chumps.


True enough. If the DeBeers cartel didn't have its boot on the throat of the diamond supply, that rock would be worth less than what Drew gave the copyright trolls in that lawsuit.
2013-02-21 03:36:39 PM
4 votes:
You can grow diamonds pretty cheap in a lab. They are actually quite worthless. The only way to tell which ones were dug out of the ground by some dying African slave worker is by looking for the imperfections that are hard to fake. The more perfect the diamond, the less value it has.

/people be chumps.
2013-02-21 03:35:47 PM
4 votes:

r1niceboy: Britain could always say, "We accept this gem, and the curry, in payment for your country not being ruled by men in pajamas, being a literate society, a democracy, giving your educated sons and daughters a place to earn a decent living, and less of a third world shiathole than would otherwise have been the case. You're welcome!"


You do realize that India fell into shiatholism because the EIC raped it blind, right?  Bengal was a top producer of cotton goods, for example, before the EIC got ahold of it - and got turned into a complete importer of sloth by the EIC taking a flame-thrower to the local economy  One o0f the things that allowed Britain to be the premier commercial empire was because it was yanking stuff out of India for cheap and then selling the largess at top-shelf prices.  Educating the Indians wasn't something done to help the Indians, but because the British needed more clerks than they could reasonably expect to ship over from Dorset.  and the idea was educate the Indians to show them that they were inferior to the British, so the Indians would serve as grateful inferiors to Britain.  It would be like saying Afro-Americans should be glad the Southern gentry taught them Western agricultural practices.  As far as democracy, the British fought tooth and nail to deny India any sort of democratic process.  When Canada was getting Dominion status (and the Americans had had local assemblies while colonies), Britain was actively tightening restrictions in India. At best, it was "you can be selected for a minority of seats in this completely toothless assembly that the Viceroy won't even pretend to listen to".  Number of Indian seats in Parliament?  Zero.  Number of local, democratic assemblies in India with deomcratically elected officials?  Zero. Anything India got from Britain was in spite of, not because of the British.
2013-02-21 03:18:15 PM
4 votes:
Britain could always say, "We accept this gem, and the curry, in payment for your country not being ruled by men in pajamas, being a literate society, a democracy, giving your educated sons and daughters a place to earn a decent living, and less of a third world shiathole than would otherwise have been the case. You're welcome!"
2013-02-21 03:07:51 PM
4 votes:

cretinbob: "The right answer is for the British Museum and other cultural institutions to do exactly what they do, which is to link up with other institutions around the world to make sure that the things which we have and look after so well are properly shared with people around the world."

I'm OK with this


I've seen the Elgin marbles, and I've seen the current state of the original from which they were cast. I'm 100% okay with the British Museum hanging on to a great deal of the world's cultural heritage.
2013-02-21 06:24:49 PM
3 votes:
The whole theft/return idea is ridiculous on a massive scale. Almost everything that has a history was essentially 'stolen' by this definition. Is India/Egypt/Greece  planning on a complete audit of their entire national possessions to establish original ownership and whether they were legally transferred and then going to return them? No because that would be STUPID.

Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?
2013-02-21 03:59:40 PM
3 votes:
I'm all for acknowledging our forebears mistakes and making up where we can, but Sir Harry Paget Flashman, VC, KCB, KCIE, didn't go through all that trouble during the First Sikh War smuggling the Koh-i-Noor out just to have it handed right back.
2013-02-21 03:59:15 PM
3 votes:

PsiChick: Walker: "I certainly don't believe in 'returnism', as it were. I don't think that's sensible."

So you don't believe in "returnism" but you believe in stealing. Cool ethics bro!

THIS. Even if you're not giving it back, at least try and pretend you understand you stole it. FFS. I can understand why you wouldn't want to return it, politics is a dirty game, but you farked up, admit it and move on.


Funny thing, HE didn't steal it.  He wasn't even farking alive when it happened.  So no, he really doesn't need to understand that.

This is exactly like the blacks demanding reparations for slavery, in the United States.  fark you.  You weren't a slave, so unless you are going to do forced labor for the next few years, you aren't getting any reparations.  Wellfare I guess isn't a reparation.
2013-02-21 03:55:00 PM
3 votes:

kbronsito: I've never been to London... is there an entrance fee to go into the museum? Maybe people who had their crap stolen from them should have it waive by showing their passports. Because it's a dick move to steal someone's stuff but its an even more dickish move to charge them money to look at it.


There is no entrance fee, but there is a large urn just inside the entrance for those who choose to give a recommended donation. It's quite interesting to see as it has money from all around the world inside. I doubt that it is emptied often.

As for returning their treasures, India is free to wait along with Greece and Egypt. The advantage of having built history's greatest empire is the legacy of stolen treasures from all over the planet and building the British Museum which is surely the world's greatest monument to theft on a grand scale. It may not be right, but at least it's all on display inside a genuinely stunning building for the world to see.

Besides, I can't imagine any sort of genuine global attempt to return property and land taken in the past through force and treachery without the lot of us returning to the Old Stone Age. There comes a point in which you really must stop fighting battles in retaliation of injustices committed against your long-dead ancestors against the other side's descendants born years or even centuries after the fact.
2013-02-21 03:40:19 PM
3 votes:

hitlersbrain: You can grow diamonds pretty cheap in a lab. They are actually quite worthless. The only way to tell which ones were dug out of the ground by some dying African slave worker is by looking for the imperfections that are hard to fake. The more perfect the diamond, the less value it has.

/people be chumps.


Diamonds weren't even fashionable until the 1800's.  Given enough synthetic production, they'll become just as worthless once again, eventually.
2013-02-21 03:40:05 PM
3 votes:

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: 1.  Sell item to foreigners
2.  Wait 100+ years, then claim it was 'stolen'.
3.  (Attempt to) Profit.


Exactly what I was thinking. Next regime change in Botswana, DR Congo etc, they should claim diamond companies were illegal and claim back millions of engagement rings.
2013-02-21 03:32:34 PM
3 votes:
A bunch of years ago Egypt was sending a guy around to retrieve all of the items that came out of the pyramids on the grounds that since the country was now stable for the long-term the excuse for holding it safely until they got their act together wouldn't fly.

So much for that one....eh?
2013-02-21 03:31:16 PM
3 votes:
Damn bunch of Indian givers.
2013-02-21 03:28:25 PM
3 votes:
1.  Sell item to foreigners
2.  Wait 100+ years, then claim it was 'stolen'.
3.  (Attempt to) Profit.
2013-02-21 02:34:52 PM
3 votes:
"The right answer is for the British Museum and other cultural institutions to do exactly what they do, which is to link up with other institutions around the world to make sure that the things which we have and look after so well are properly shared with people around the world."

I'm OK with this
2013-02-21 02:15:24 PM
3 votes:

Somacandra: Weaver95: form and army and invade.

Why not point a nuke at the UK and say "hand it over motherfarker?" India is a nuclear power after all.



Because England would just laugh politely, and say whatever their version of "biatch, please" is.
2013-02-21 02:14:38 PM
3 votes:
The moral of the story: colonialism sucks ass (the bad kind), no matter how hard Dinesh D'Souza tries to polish that turd.
2013-02-21 02:02:29 PM
3 votes:
you want that stuff back, form and army and invade.  otherwise forget about it.
2013-02-21 08:19:06 PM
2 votes:

pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....


Well that's exactly what you're pushing.

You want people who weren't even alive at the time of said atrocities to feel bad about them as if it were their fault simply on the basis of the fact they're white and therefore must be complicit.  That's what your earlier spiel was about, wasn't it?  "Look how nasty your ancestors were, don't you feel bad about it?  You should, because you're white and a descendent of those horrible people.  Every privilege and advantage you have is built on the back of slaughtered brown people.  You should grovel in shame."

There's no reason British citizens of any colour born after the end of the Raj should feel any guilt for what happened during it.  There's no reason why Japanese born after WWII should feel any guilt for what happened during it.  There's no reason Africans born after the end of slavery should feel guilt about their ancestors selling their own into slavery.

It's all very wide-eyed college liberal and extremely biblical, but it's stupid, and non-productive, and frankly it makes you look like even more of a moron than your awful writing style.

/Seriously, learn to write a coherent sentence
jvl
2013-02-21 08:02:40 PM
2 votes:
Reading Wikipedia, it appears this particular diamond has been stolen about once per century since it was first dug up.  Fark, they don't even remember who dug it up or where!

So why does it belong to India rather than Pakistan (where it once resided) or Iran (where it once resided) or Afghanistan (where it once resided)?
2013-02-21 04:56:41 PM
2 votes:
Perhaps the Brits could send a terse but elegant telegram to them. Something like.... "Peccavi"
2013-02-21 04:09:48 PM
2 votes:
Sure, when Morgoth hands over the Silmarils back to Feanor.
2013-02-21 03:48:10 PM
2 votes:
Britain might have India's diamond, but Indians and other foreigners are taking over London and soon the rest of England.
2013-02-21 03:38:58 PM
2 votes:

12349876: Somacandra: Weaver95: form and army and invade.

Why not point a nuke at the UK and say "hand it over motherfarker?" India is a nuclear power after all.

According to Wikipedia, the UK has about twice as many nukes to point back.


Plus there is that whole NATO thing India would have to worry about.


Although if the UK did give it back I am sure that India would be polite about it. They would probably say "Thank you, come again!".
2013-02-21 03:35:55 PM
2 votes:

The 4chan Psychiatrist: And I'd give the edge to the Sikh warriors of India vs. the modern Brits, SAS excluded, ofc.



images3.wikia.nocookie.net

"For short range weapons:
Edge: Sikh Warriors with their curved blades and beards

For special weapons:
Edge: Sikh Warriors for their Turbans of Doom.

For long range weapons:
Edge: British Military with aircraft carriers, Apaches, and cluster bombs"
2013-02-21 03:34:30 PM
2 votes:
The local Rajah gave that stone to Queen Vicki of his own free will.  With the help of a couple of British armies, of course, but those silly wogs couldn't be expected to do anything for themselves, now could they?
2013-02-21 03:32:44 PM
2 votes:
And THIS is why I recommend people visiting London make the British Museum a primary stop.  Forget the London Eye, London Bridge, London Tower, Big Ben etc.  Hit the British Museum and maybe the Tate Modern.

Thousands of years of shameless plundering of other's cultures makes for a pretty awesome museum!
2013-02-21 03:29:42 PM
2 votes:
theinfosphere.org

Maybe they shouldn't have traded it for their land.

They probably didn't understand the concept of ownership back then
2013-02-21 03:25:43 PM
2 votes:

Somacandra: Weaver95: form and army and invade.

Why not point a nuke at the UK and say "hand it over motherfarker?" India is a nuclear power after all.


According to Wikipedia, the UK has about twice as many nukes to point back.
2013-02-21 03:22:03 PM
2 votes:

This text is now purple: Somacandra: The moral of the story: colonialism sucks ass (the bad kind), no matter how hard Dinesh D'Souza tries to polish that turd.

It's hard to complain too hard about British colonialism. They tended to leave places in better condition than they found them.

\Now Belgian colonialism...


Exactly. Most of the places the Brits colonized would have zero infrastructure if they hadn't been there. I get tired of former colonies, particularly on the African continent, blaming all of their problems on the West.
2013-02-21 03:19:02 PM
2 votes:

oldfarthenry: "The diamond had been set in the crown of the current Queen Elizabeth's late mother."

The old broad is dead - what does she care? Give the goddamn thing back!


The article is imprecise.  The kiN is set in the Queen-Consort's crown.  The Queen Mother was simply the last woman to wear it, being the last Queen Consort.  It wasn't her personal jewelry.  Supposedly, the thing is cursed, but only if you are a man.  So, by putting it in the Queen Consort's crown was supposed to insure it would never be worn by a man again.
2013-02-21 03:16:16 PM
2 votes:
Maybe Britain will return it in exchange for getting cricket back.
2013-02-21 03:15:24 PM
2 votes:
Ehh, what India needs to do is threaten to have the Anglo-Indian shut down all the curry shops in London.  The Koh-i-Noor will be back in India inside of a week
2013-02-21 03:15:00 PM
2 votes:

Walker: "I certainly don't believe in 'returnism', as it were. I don't think that's sensible."

So you don't believe in "returnism" but you believe in stealing. Cool ethics bro!


THIS. Even if you're not giving it back, at least try and pretend you understand you stole it. FFS. I can understand why you wouldn't want to return it, politics is a dirty game, but you farked up, admit it and move on.
2013-02-21 03:02:56 PM
2 votes:
"I certainly don't believe in 'returnism', as it were. I don't think that's sensible."

So you don't believe in "returnism" but you believe in stealing. Cool ethics bro!
2013-02-21 02:43:06 PM
2 votes:
Give them the diamond if India agrees that it will even everything out.
2013-02-22 01:23:08 PM
1 votes:
They stole it fair and square.
2013-02-22 06:19:23 AM
1 votes:

Walker: Kahabut: PsiChick: Walker: "I certainly don't believe in 'returnism', as it were. I don't think that's sensible."

So you don't believe in "returnism" but you believe in stealing. Cool ethics bro!

THIS. Even if you're not giving it back, at least try and pretend you understand you stole it. FFS. I can understand why you wouldn't want to return it, politics is a dirty game, but you farked up, admit it and move on.

Funny thing, HE didn't steal it.  He wasn't even farking alive when it happened.  So no, he really doesn't need to understand that.

This is exactly like the blacks demanding reparations for slavery, in the United States.  fark you.  You weren't a slave, so unless you are going to do forced labor for the next few years, you aren't getting any reparations.  Wellfare I guess isn't a reparation.

You are comparing apples and oranges. This is a physical item that was stolen and can be given back. A better comparison would be things the Nazis stole during WW2 from other countries now being in Germany's possessions. The other countries ask for them back and Germany says "F*ck you, we don't believe in returnism".


So who do you propose the diamond be given back to? The people who stole it, then gave it to Britain willingly?
2013-02-22 04:40:56 AM
1 votes:
Being rich and white means never having to say you're sorry.
2013-02-21 09:11:26 PM
1 votes:
Happy Hours
Who cares?

How would Indians benefit from its return?

This.  It sounds like typical grandstanding by some idiot politician.  I suspect the average Indian laborer would rather have their elected politician get some money to their respective village so they can buy a water pump and/or have regular sanitation system.

Not some dumb rock that will sit in another museum in Mumbai or Dehli that the peasants will never visit.
2013-02-21 09:04:43 PM
1 votes:
pstudent12: *EXTENSIVE RAMBLINGS CUT*

And your own country has a history of the exact same at the least. History is the word however.

I WILL NOT feel guilty about stuff done while my ancestors worked for basic bread down a mine in Northern England. Sorry, I just will not. I especially will not listen to demands from people who are themselves rich and powerful off the backs of poverty stricken masses in their own countries, who they treat abominably, as they try to deflect with nationalist tripe.
2013-02-21 08:55:01 PM
1 votes:

Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.

Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.

They're not getting the diamond back and they know it. This request is for the benefit of the Indian politician's constituents, just like Argentina and the Falklands, Teapartiers and illegals, and Armenians with Turkey.

Everyone knows this, so let's stop the moralizing and the cultural relativity and be pragmatic about it.

I wonder why you never ask why the British will never return the diamond. Is the political face and the fear that it will be interpreted as a sign of weakness on the part of the British politicians worth defendin ...


As described above the British were pretty much the only people who got the diamond and didn't murder the current owner for it. Hell "India" was a geographic term in the 1800's, the only people who have any claim whatsoever for the diamond are the descendants of the Sultan who gave it as a gift, not the rest of modern India. Hell given the circumstances, the diamond has more significance in British history than what we currently call India.
2013-02-21 08:45:39 PM
1 votes:
Britain didn't steal that diamond from "India." They took it from the last of a long line of ruling cutthroats who had stolen it back and forth across Asia for centuries. The East India Company got legal title to it along with the rest of the Singh families kingdom in Punjab, in exchange for Duleep Singh living a comfortable exile in Great Britain pllus 50,000 pounds a year. And the East India Company gave it to Queen Victoria and her heirs. The British royal family are just about the only owners who DIDN'T steal it.
2013-02-21 08:35:57 PM
1 votes:

Somacandra: Weaver95: form and army and invade.

Why not point a nuke at the UK and say "hand it over motherfarker?" India is a nuclear power after all.


So is the UK. The only difference is the UK actually has delivery vehicles capable of reaching the other side of the world. And the UK has form when it comes to ruthlessness.
2013-02-21 08:35:04 PM
1 votes:

Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.

Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.


They're not getting the diamond back and they know it. This request is for the benefit of the Indian politician's constituents, just like Argentina and the Falklands, Teapartiers and illegals, and Armenians with Turkey.

Everyone knows this, so let's stop the moralizing and the cultural relativity and be pragmatic about it.
2013-02-21 08:27:41 PM
1 votes:

NightOwl2255: you are a puppet: SERIOUSLY THOUGH, as a man of Indian descent...

I'm 1/256 Indian (Cherokee). Sure, it's not much, but I did get $2000 a year for college, and I can get free medical care and medicine if I want to go to the Indian clinic.

/Feather, not Ruby.


That's really retarded that that's allowed.  I think I'm like 1/64 Cherokee - I've seen my family's records on that and a picture of her, but don't remember the number of generations.  It's just silly, though - I'm white.
2013-02-21 08:17:22 PM
1 votes:
Dumb, just dumb. All of this is dumb. We should nuke India to prevent further outbreak.
2013-02-21 08:15:42 PM
1 votes:
The US must pay every African American many millions of dollars in retribution because some Dutch traders decided to bring over some long removed ancestor. Which in turn gave todays African American a much better standard of living than if their Great Great Great Grandfather had stayed in Africa.


/Grandpa could have stayed in Africa and now his descendants could all be dying of Aids
2013-02-21 08:13:03 PM
1 votes:

pstudent12: Oh wait, I almost forgot, this is too funny. The benevolent, bumbling, monty python reciting, good, fair minded British, in Africa (which compared to India wasn't even all that important to them but they still did this):

Seems that castration, burning suspects alive, and ass-rape with broken bottles was a favorite counter-insurgency technique for British troops in Kenya:

"Bottles (often broken), gun barrels, knives, snakes, vermin, and hot eggs were thrust up men's rectums and women's vaginas. The screening teams whipped, shot, burned, and mutilated Mau Mau suspects, ostensibly to gather intelligence for military operations, and as court evidence." At the time, the British government sought to circumvent international accords. Forced labour was constantly imposed in the camps. Kenya's defence minister had said of the use of detainee labour: "We are slave traders and the employment of our slaves are, in this instance, by the Public Works Department."

Say, about about a spot of tea, old chap ? Now about those Belgians, can you believe what they did ? We only made our places so much better than we found them....


It was no worse than what the Africans did to each other. the british were just a bit more organized, and to be fair, they were results-oriented. Thye stopped reprisals when the provocations stopped. the Portoguese and the Belgians were far worse to their subjects.

'S one reason the Empire lasted so long and was so successful, you know. Ultimately, the British were, on balance, fair and just. Same with the Romans.
2013-02-21 08:04:56 PM
1 votes:

pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....


Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.
2013-02-21 08:04:12 PM
1 votes:

SurfaceTension: Weaver95: you want that stuff back, form and army and invade.  otherwise forget about it.

I don't know. I'd give even odds for an army of Hindu warriors vs. the Brits of today.


Lolwut? The Brits are the second-most capable army in the world (not huge, but what's there is cherse). And the warrior cultures in India are Sikh and Muslim, not Hindu.
2013-02-21 07:58:35 PM
1 votes:
So all I got out of this thread is that it is okay to steal anything because everything was at one point owned by someone else, and thus the only thing you can't steal through the Fark Logic of Deduction is the stick used by the first primate who figured out he can use it to scratch his own arsehole.
2013-02-21 06:42:41 PM
1 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: And why we, as a people, put such value on pressurized carbon is beyond me. Why not just pick a coconut? Or a found beetle carapace? It's all in the value of what we say its worth. To me, diamonds are a way of saying "im giving you all my cash for a useless rock that my fiancée wants, so i keep getting bj's, so here..here is all my cash for a hunk of stupid carbon." Why not just give her a CZ or something that you won't have to pay your next 22 paychecks for? fark diamonds, they have no value to me, nor does gold, or any of that shiat. Just because greedy people say it does, doesn't make it so.


And why we, as a people, put such value on slips of paper is beyond me. Why not just pick a coconut? Or a found beetle carapace? It's all in the value of what we say its worth. To me, cash is a way of saying "im giving you all my time and effort for a useless piece of paper that my fiancée wants, so i keep getting bj's, so here..here is all my free time and energy for a shred of stupid paper." Why not just give her a square of toilet paper or something that you won't have to sacrifice all of your free time for? fark cash, it has no value to me, nor does gold, or any of that shiat. Just because greedy people say it does, doesn't make it so.

Everything is only worth what we agree it is.  It's best to make your peace with it.
2013-02-21 06:30:24 PM
1 votes:

gaspode: The whole theft/return idea is ridiculous on a massive scale. Almost everything that has a history was essentially 'stolen' by this definition. Is India/Egypt/Greece  planning on a complete audit of their entire national possessions to establish original ownership and whether they were legally transferred and then going to return them? No because that would be STUPID.

Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?


White guilt.
2013-02-21 06:15:28 PM
1 votes:
Ok, you can have the diamond back. And Briaian will have back the infrastructure, the Indian cities it founded, the roads and railways, the courts, schools and universities, the English Language, the civil service and army, the democratic institutions it left in place etc etc etc.
2013-02-21 06:10:15 PM
1 votes:
And why we, as a people, put such value on pressurized carbon is beyond me. Why not just pick a coconut? Or a found beetle carapace? It's all in the value of what we say its worth. To me, diamonds are a way of saying "im giving you all my cash for a useless rock that my fiancée wants, so i keep getting bj's, so here..here is all my cash for a hunk of stupid carbon." Why not just give her a CZ or something that you won't have to pay your next 22 paychecks for? fark diamonds, they have no value to me, nor does gold, or any of that shiat. Just because greedy people say it does, doesn't make it so.
2013-02-21 06:03:30 PM
1 votes:

ITGreen: "One of the world's largest diamonds, some Indians - including independence leader Mahatma Gandhi's grandson - have demanded its return to atone for Britain's colonial past. "

So one diamond will atone for Britain's colonial wrongdoings?  No?  Then giving it back is only the first in a line of  "atonement" gestures to be demanded later by India.

I actually agree with the British on this one; nip this stunt of theirs in the bud.


India is poorer than North Korea. They shouldn't talk about atonement when they have hundreds of millions living in extreme poverty.

Fix your damn country assholes.
2013-02-21 06:01:17 PM
1 votes:

Treygreen13: Englebert Slaptyback: Treygreen13

They're not even really a big secret anymore. You can go to a website right now and for less than $500 get a rock so big and bright your girlfriend's panties will break the sound barrier hitting the ground.


URL or we'll be forced to call shenanigans.

http://www.diamondnexus.com/round-brilliant-cut-classic-series.html

You can get a 4.91 carat synthetic diamond from them for less than 500. If you want to go comically large they offer a 16 carat diamond for $1600. Please don't do that, though. Nobody will believe you've got the scratch for a 16 carat diamond unless people think you've got a cool mil lying around just for rings.


Yeah, are we sure they're dealing in octahedral carbon diamond? The language used in their vid has more weasels than a Yorkshireman's pants. Gemesis comes out and says lab grown diamonds, Diamond Nexus talks about "the only difference is the chemistry" in their video and who knows what that means. Silicon carbide was mistaken for synthetic diamond 150 years ago and can be grown in crystals large enough to make armor.

Somacandra: Weaver95: form and army and invade.

Why not point a nuke at the UK and say "hand it over motherfarker?" India is a nuclear power after all.


cdn.ebaumsworld.com
2013-02-21 05:47:33 PM
1 votes:
Serve them right if the Brits, given its ownership history (mostly Punjab, with late ownership by Sikh & Moghul Empires), "gave it back" to Pakistan...
2013-02-21 05:27:58 PM
1 votes:

Kahabut: PsiChick: Walker: "I certainly don't believe in 'returnism', as it were. I don't think that's sensible."

So you don't believe in "returnism" but you believe in stealing. Cool ethics bro!

THIS. Even if you're not giving it back, at least try and pretend you understand you stole it. FFS. I can understand why you wouldn't want to return it, politics is a dirty game, but you farked up, admit it and move on.

Funny thing, HE didn't steal it.  He wasn't even farking alive when it happened.  So no, he really doesn't need to understand that.

This is exactly like the blacks demanding reparations for slavery, in the United States.  fark you.  You weren't a slave, so unless you are going to do forced labor for the next few years, you aren't getting any reparations.  Wellfare I guess isn't a reparation.


You ever represented a company before? Did you personally believe the Ecto-Cooler you were selling cured cancer? Nope, but that company sure did. So you opened your mouth and said Ecto-Cooler cured cancer. And thus, when the lawsuit hit,  you weren't sued as a person, the  company was sued for making false statements.

That's how spokespeople work. He did not personally steal it, or he'd be in farking jail. But the country he's representing did.
2013-02-21 05:09:35 PM
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: Treygreen13

They're not even really a big secret anymore. You can go to a website right now and for less than $500 get a rock so big and bright your girlfriend's panties will break the sound barrier hitting the ground.


URL or we'll be forced to call shenanigans.


This is just one site.  They have a 3ct heart cut, "glacial ice," colored synthetic diamond for $289.
http://www.diamondnexus.com/pure-carbon-man-made-diamonds.html?gclid =C MHftZ20yLUCFZCf4AodU3wA6A
2013-02-21 04:59:23 PM
1 votes:

durbnpoisn: Englebert Slaptyback: Treygreen13

They're not even really a big secret anymore. You can go to a website right now and for less than $500 get a rock so big and bright your girlfriend's panties will break the sound barrier hitting the ground.


URL or we'll be forced to call shenanigans.

In about 5 minutes, I found a site that makes synthetic stones.  Many of the synthetics they sell must be really sloppily made, because they retail for like $15.  However, a 1-karat pure carbon diamong goes for roughly $4000.


What's the point of paying $4000 for a low-quality lab diamond when a low-quality natural diamond goes for the same price? Blue Nile has a 1 carat J/SI2/fair for $3300.


ha-ha-guy: http://www.diamondnexus.com/round-brilliant-cut-classic-series.html

You can get a 4.91 carat synthetic diamond from them for less than 500. If you want to go comically large they offer a 16 carat diamond for $1600. Please don't do that, though. Nobody will believe you've got the scratch for a 16 carat diamond unless people think you've got a cool mil lying around just for rings.

Diamond Nexus, at least last time I looked a them, sells diamond stimulants.  If you look at their dispersion and hardness figures they don't line up with real diamonds.  Maybe they changed their business model, but last I looked they weren't actual lab made diamonds.


Those look like cubic zirconias. CZ have always been cheap. Their "pure carbon" stuff is just as expensive as natural diamonds.
2013-02-21 04:58:30 PM
1 votes:
Another reason why everyone everywhere has fond loving memories of the Brits!!!
2013-02-21 04:51:55 PM
1 votes:
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

What's going on in this thread?
2013-02-21 04:47:36 PM
1 votes:
Sorry India. You should have thought of this before you handed it over.
2013-02-21 04:45:44 PM
1 votes:

Kahabut: Walker: Kahabut: PsiChick: Walker: You are comparing apples and oranges. This is a physical item that was stolen and can be given back. A better comparison would be things the Nazis stole during WW2 from other countries now being in Germany's possessions. The other countries ask for them back and Germany says "F*ck you, we don't believe in returnism".



More salient, Britain didn't get it's ass kicked, overrun, occupied, tried, convicted and punished like Germany did.

To the victor.

I bet the BNP would do a trade- all your 'pakis' back and no more commonwealth privileges for one stone.  In a heart beat.
2013-02-21 04:38:14 PM
1 votes:
I figure Britain earned the diamond for bringing India civilization- of course it did not completely take but that was not the Britain's fault.

India: Two elderly burned alive accused of witchcraft

Witch Burning and Human Sacrifice in India
2013-02-21 04:29:34 PM
1 votes:

Spiralmonkey: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Gordon Bennett: As for returning their treasures, India is free to wait along with Greece and Egypt.

Given the state of Greece and Egypt at this point, it may be for the best if Britain keeps them.

You can have them back when you prove to us that you're not going to destroy them in a riot or civil war.

Not unless Greece is in a position to pay for the Elgin marbles, which were sold by Greece to Britain.


Not quite. Lord Elgin obtained permission from the Ottoman Empire to excavate the site and chose the broadest possible interpretation of that to steal the lot. He then sold them on to the government.

I assume that we now call them the Elgin Marbles instead of the Parthenon Marbles or Acropolis Marbles as a massive GIRUY to the Greeks.
2013-02-21 04:27:21 PM
1 votes:
India is a complete sh*thole, go get anything else of value that's still there out now.
2013-02-21 04:26:54 PM
1 votes:

relcec: I wouldn't trust rogan about anything outside his area of expertise: drugs, the mma, and ancient aliens. If he says what allows apraissers to differntiate the two are organic are flawed while synthetic are perfect I'd put money on him being at least half wrong.


i take everything Joe says with a grain of salt but he's entertaining.  his podcast is AWESOME.


TV's Vinnie: An Indian's arrows would be crap vs a Roman Phalanx formation.


yeah, but they didn't fight that way on the show.  just head to head.  i mean, conversely, 10 apaches with bow and arrow and slings and atlatls and shiat versus one gladiator would equally be a bloodbath.
2013-02-21 04:14:49 PM
1 votes:

phalamir: r1niceboy: Britain could always say, "We accept this gem, and the curry, in payment for your country not being ruled by men in pajamas, being a literate society, a democracy, giving your educated sons and daughters a place to earn a decent living, and less of a third world shiathole than would otherwise have been the case. You're welcome!"

You do realize that India fell into shiatholism because the EIC raped it blind, right?  Bengal was a top producer of cotton goods, for example, before the EIC got ahold of it - and got turned into a complete importer of sloth by the EIC taking a flame-thrower to the local economy  One o0f the things that allowed Britain to be the premier commercial empire was because it was yanking stuff out of India for cheap and then selling the largess at top-shelf prices.  Educating the Indians wasn't something done to help the Indians, but because the British needed more clerks than they could reasonably expect to ship over from Dorset.  and the idea was educate the Indians to show them that they were inferior to the British, so the Indians would serve as grateful inferiors to Britain.  It would be like saying Afro-Americans should be glad the Southern gentry taught them Western agricultural practices.  As far as democracy, the British fought tooth and nail to deny India any sort of democratic process.  When Canada was getting Dominion status (and the Americans had had local assemblies while colonies), Britain was actively tightening restrictions in India. At best, it was "you can be selected for a minority of seats in this completely toothless assembly that the Viceroy won't even pretend to listen to".  Number of Indian seats in Parliament?  Zero.  Number of local, democratic assemblies in India with deomcratically elected officials?  Zero. Anything India got from Britain was in spite of, not because of the British.


See also: Why Iran hates us, and has every right to hate us, and why it is Britain's fault
2013-02-21 04:14:49 PM
1 votes:
To the victor go the spoils.
2013-02-21 04:06:41 PM
1 votes:

fozziewazzi: Stuff taken before the Indians had a flag don't count.


hollywoodnose.com

It's the rules.
2013-02-21 03:57:20 PM
1 votes:

p the boiler: I hope no Americans comment on this on behalf of India - unless of course you are down with giving the native americans back everything that was taken from them


Funny, I was just thinking that the Indians have as much chance of getting that diamond as the Mohawks and Carnasee have of getting Manhattan.
2013-02-21 03:56:35 PM
1 votes:
The British Museum is pretty much a gallery of grand theft, but with the state of most of the countries since the end of Colonialism I doubt even 10% of that stuff would have survived today.  Britain should just tell India, we're still holding onto it for you until you grow up and act responsibly enough that we can give it to you.
2013-02-21 03:55:07 PM
1 votes:
To the victors the spoils. If they have to return the diamond, we have to return our country to the brits... then they return it to the natives.

Easier to proceed as we are and learn to lock your shiat up better.


/Vishnu please...
2013-02-21 03:46:24 PM
1 votes:
I hope no Americans comment on this on behalf of India - unless of course you are down with giving the native americans back everything that was taken from them
2013-02-21 03:42:58 PM
1 votes:

MythDragon: The 4chan Psychiatrist: And I'd give the edge to the Sikh warriors of India vs. the modern Brits, SAS excluded, ofc.


[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 680x541]

"For short range weapons:
Edge: Sikh Warriors with their curved blades and beards

For special weapons:
Edge: Sikh Warriors for their Turbans of Doom.

For long range weapons:
Edge: British Military with aircraft carriers, Apaches, and cluster bombs"


The Brits could just hire the Gurkhas to do their dirty work again.
2013-02-21 03:42:19 PM
1 votes:
Besides, if the British never took it in the first place, then the Doctor and Rose couldn't have used it to lazor-beam-pew-pew-pew a space werewolf to death.

So that's all right then.

/the manor lord's wife in that episode was freaking hot, too
2013-02-21 03:39:38 PM
1 votes:

MythDragon: Edge: British Military with aircraft carriers, Apaches, and cluster bombs"


ha.  when that show was popping, there was an episode where they gave Apache Warrior the edge over Roman Gladiator (mainly because as I recall, the bow and arrow was superior and more lethal than the gladiator's close-in weapons, but who cares.)

anywyas, there was a thread here and some dude was mega butthurt about that.  he was like, "that show is BULLshiat!  there is NO WAY a roman gladiator would lose to a stone age technology!  no freaking way, period.  I call bullshiat!  Didn't they see Russell Crowe in "Gladiator"?  this is bullshiat!  No freaking way Russell Crowe loses to Tonto.  Go watch "Gladiator", you assholes.  Seriously.  this is bullshiat and I'm boycotting the show FOREVER!"

it was like, 'gay for russell crowe much, Gladiatormitter?"
2013-02-21 03:32:09 PM
1 votes:
*brushes out mutton-chop, grabs pen and parchment, fixes monocle*

"Dear Sirs:

I am vexed -- most considerably vexed! -- at the squawks of discontent emenating from The Raj.   It is disconcerting that the Punjabs are not appreciative of Her Majefty's efforts to rehabilitate them up from their lowly station into something more noble and useful.  If it isn't 'quit stealing our treasures', 'quit filling our bellies full of jackfruit' it is some other mewling of dissatisfaction without a whit of appreciation for what the Empire has accomplished for them.    I strongly encourage the deployment of red-coats to straighten out these ungrateful malcontents.

Sincerely,
Willam J. Starchshirt, Esq."
2013-02-21 03:31:48 PM
1 votes:
Indian givers....

/slackers...
2013-02-21 03:31:35 PM
1 votes:

Fano: germ78: Kinda off-topic in a way, but I was very disappointed by the Hope diamond. I thought it would be a fist-sized gem, but it's only as big as 3 quarters stacked on each other. farking. Lame.

You must have been thinking of the famed Baseball Diamond.


The Cullinan Diamond was fist-sized.
2013-02-21 03:29:29 PM
1 votes:

12349876: Somacandra: Weaver95: form and army and invade.

Why not point a nuke at the UK and say "hand it over motherfarker?" India is a nuclear power after all.

According to Wikipedia, the UK has about twice as many nukes to point back.


I can see it now, two massive nations nuking the bejeezus out of each other over a rock in a hat.
2013-02-21 03:26:19 PM
1 votes:
"We stole it fair and square!" said the overwhelming majority of people in Asia, Europe, Africa, Australia, North and South America.
2013-02-21 03:25:28 PM
1 votes:
Kinda off-topic in a way, but I was very disappointed by the Hope diamond. I thought it would be a fist-sized gem, but it's only as big as 3 quarters stacked on each other. farking. Lame.
2013-02-21 03:21:09 PM
1 votes:
It falls into the category of things without value to their owner, like most crown jewels.  You can't sell them ever, so they're not really worth anything and cost a fortune to guard.
2013-02-21 03:20:50 PM
1 votes:
Will getting the stone back bring water to the wells and bring the children back?

They betrayed Shiva.
2013-02-21 03:20:49 PM
1 votes:

The 4chan Psychiatrist: SurfaceTension: Weaver95: you want that stuff back, form and army and invade.  otherwise forget about it.

I don't know. I'd give even odds for an army of Hindu warriors vs. the Brits of today.

And I'd give the edge to the Sikh warriors of India vs. the modern Brits, SAS excluded, ofc.



How are they going to get to England? The Indian Navy? How much air-lift capacity does the Indian Air Force have?
2013-02-21 03:19:50 PM
1 votes:
big ass-diamond?

cdn.theatlanticwire.com


pic is borrowed
2013-02-21 03:19:38 PM
1 votes:
Ebba dabba dooba, surley they weel geeve eet back.
Yeah, How about you guys figure out how to use flush toilets, drink clean water, get the cows off the streets, stop stampeding your own people during religious parties, and kick the Muslim psychos out, first, and then we'll talk.
About hiring you back as houseboy.
2013-02-21 03:13:35 PM
1 votes:

SurfaceTension: Weaver95: you want that stuff back, form and army and invade.  otherwise forget about it.

I don't know. I'd give even odds for an army of Hindu warriors vs. the Brits of today.


And I'd give the edge to the Sikh warriors of India vs. the modern Brits, SAS excluded, ofc.
2013-02-21 03:12:51 PM
1 votes:

ITGreen: "One of the world's largest diamonds, some Indians - including independence leader Mahatma Gandhi's grandson - have demanded its return to atone for Britain's colonial past. "

So one diamond will atone for Britain's colonial wrongdoings?  No?  Then giving it back is only the first in a line of  "atonement" gestures to be demanded later by India.

I actually agree with the British on this one; nip this stunt of theirs in the bud.


Is Koh-i-noor the Arkenstone?
2013-02-21 02:17:11 PM
1 votes:

Somacandra: The moral of the story: colonialism sucks ass (the bad kind), no matter how hard Dinesh D'Souza tries to polish that turd.



It was the best thing that ever happened to Africa.


/gets popcorn
2013-02-21 02:11:50 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: form and army and invade.


Why not point a nuke at the UK and say "hand it over motherfarker?" India is a nuclear power after all.
 
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