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(Reuters)   Britain to India: You know that big-ass diamond we stole from you about 150 years ago? Yeah, you're never getting that back   (reuters.com) divider line 318
    More: Obvious, Britain, Non-combatant, Koh, Tower of London, Mahatma Gandhi, Queen Elizabeth I, British Museum, cultural institutions  
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18666 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Feb 2013 at 3:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-21 08:04:56 PM

pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....


Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.
 
2013-02-21 08:05:43 PM

TV's Vinnie: An Indian's arrows would be crap vs a Roman Phalanx formation.

1.bp.blogspot.com

Hold up shields as the arrows bounce off, get in close, and remind the redskins the folly of pissing off whitey.



The centurion was a different episode. Coincidentally, they had him face off against the Rajput Warrior of India. They concluded the centurion would lose that match up as well, mostly on the basis of their close range weapon of choice. I could see that as the Rajputs were trained more for one on one combat as opposed to the teamwork based legions.
 
2013-02-21 08:09:24 PM
It's interesting to see the overt racism, nationalism, and quintessential British douchiness boil over whenever anyone dares suggest that they might not be the gentlemen they pretend to be.
 
2013-02-21 08:13:03 PM

pstudent12: Oh wait, I almost forgot, this is too funny. The benevolent, bumbling, monty python reciting, good, fair minded British, in Africa (which compared to India wasn't even all that important to them but they still did this):

Seems that castration, burning suspects alive, and ass-rape with broken bottles was a favorite counter-insurgency technique for British troops in Kenya:

"Bottles (often broken), gun barrels, knives, snakes, vermin, and hot eggs were thrust up men's rectums and women's vaginas. The screening teams whipped, shot, burned, and mutilated Mau Mau suspects, ostensibly to gather intelligence for military operations, and as court evidence." At the time, the British government sought to circumvent international accords. Forced labour was constantly imposed in the camps. Kenya's defence minister had said of the use of detainee labour: "We are slave traders and the employment of our slaves are, in this instance, by the Public Works Department."

Say, about about a spot of tea, old chap ? Now about those Belgians, can you believe what they did ? We only made our places so much better than we found them....


It was no worse than what the Africans did to each other. the british were just a bit more organized, and to be fair, they were results-oriented. Thye stopped reprisals when the provocations stopped. the Portoguese and the Belgians were far worse to their subjects.

'S one reason the Empire lasted so long and was so successful, you know. Ultimately, the British were, on balance, fair and just. Same with the Romans.
 
2013-02-21 08:15:42 PM
The US must pay every African American many millions of dollars in retribution because some Dutch traders decided to bring over some long removed ancestor. Which in turn gave todays African American a much better standard of living than if their Great Great Great Grandfather had stayed in Africa.


/Grandpa could have stayed in Africa and now his descendants could all be dying of Aids
 
2013-02-21 08:16:26 PM

NightOwl2255: you are a puppet: SERIOUSLY THOUGH, as a man of Indian descent...

I'm 1/256 Indian (Cherokee). Sure, it's not much, but I did get $2000 a year for college, and I can get free medical care and medicine if I want to go to the Indian clinic.

/Feather, not Ruby.


Seriously? I'm sure I have more Cherokee than that.
 
2013-02-21 08:17:22 PM
Dumb, just dumb. All of this is dumb. We should nuke India to prevent further outbreak.
 
2013-02-21 08:19:06 PM

pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....


Well that's exactly what you're pushing.

You want people who weren't even alive at the time of said atrocities to feel bad about them as if it were their fault simply on the basis of the fact they're white and therefore must be complicit.  That's what your earlier spiel was about, wasn't it?  "Look how nasty your ancestors were, don't you feel bad about it?  You should, because you're white and a descendent of those horrible people.  Every privilege and advantage you have is built on the back of slaughtered brown people.  You should grovel in shame."

There's no reason British citizens of any colour born after the end of the Raj should feel any guilt for what happened during it.  There's no reason why Japanese born after WWII should feel any guilt for what happened during it.  There's no reason Africans born after the end of slavery should feel guilt about their ancestors selling their own into slavery.

It's all very wide-eyed college liberal and extremely biblical, but it's stupid, and non-productive, and frankly it makes you look like even more of a moron than your awful writing style.

/Seriously, learn to write a coherent sentence
 
2013-02-21 08:20:12 PM

mbillips: SurfaceTension: Weaver95: you want that stuff back, form and army and invade.  otherwise forget about it.

I don't know. I'd give even odds for an army of Hindu warriors vs. the Brits of today.

Lolwut? The Brits are the second-most capable army in the world (not huge, but what's there is cherse). And the warrior cultures in India are Sikh and Muslim, not Hindu.


Well it's not like the Muslims haven't run rampant over Europe in the past...et al.
 
2013-02-21 08:20:21 PM

gadian: You'll need an ID # though, but if one of your relatives has one, that will work.


I have relatives that live on reservations (ie, they're fully registered and whatnot), so it would be easy enough to get whatever I need, but...I'll be fine.

NightOwl2255: Oh, I see. Don't want to take that government money meant for the poor little red kids on the reservation huh? Yeah, you really don't know what you are talking about. Here's just one of the sources of revenue of the tribe. So, unless you can honestly say you would not accept a scholarship from Caesars Palace, your righteousness is misplaced.


No, I simply don't identify myself with the culture, nor do I feel that what one group of long-since-dead people did to another group of long-since-dead people should benefit me personally as though that makes and difference to the dead people.  Instead, on a general level, I'd rather contribute to processes and such that hopefully steer society away from doing such things to other people who are either currently alive, or not-yet-born.  Were I a part of that culture in any way, I might feel different, but...
 
2013-02-21 08:20:25 PM

jvl: Reading Wikipedia, it appears this particular diamond has been stolen about once per century since it was first dug up.  Fark, they don't even remember who dug it up or where!

So why does it belong to India rather than Pakistan (where it once resided) or Iran (where it once resided) or Afghanistan (where it once resided)?


Oh, they should give it to Pakistan, for the lulz.
 
2013-02-21 08:27:41 PM

NightOwl2255: you are a puppet: SERIOUSLY THOUGH, as a man of Indian descent...

I'm 1/256 Indian (Cherokee). Sure, it's not much, but I did get $2000 a year for college, and I can get free medical care and medicine if I want to go to the Indian clinic.

/Feather, not Ruby.


That's really retarded that that's allowed.  I think I'm like 1/64 Cherokee - I've seen my family's records on that and a picture of her, but don't remember the number of generations.  It's just silly, though - I'm white.
 
2013-02-21 08:28:03 PM

Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.


Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.
 
2013-02-21 08:30:52 PM

IamAwake: No, I simply don't identify myself with the culture, nor do I feel that what one group of long-since-dead people did to another group of long-since-dead people should benefit me personally as though that makes and difference to the dead people. Instead, on a general level, I'd rather contribute to processes and such that hopefully steer society away from doing such things to other people who are either currently alive, or not-yet-born. Were I a part of that culture in any way, I might feel different, but...


The shiat part about this is, if for some reason you had kids and the courts had to get involved, ICWA would take effect and your tribe would be brought in no matter how you felt about it.
 
2013-02-21 08:31:56 PM
FTFA: If Kate Middleton, the wife of Prince William, who is second in line to the throne, eventually becomes queen consort she will don the crown holding the diamond on official occasions.

What's the over/under on her just saying "oh fark it. pry the goddamn thing out and give it back. Not like we can't go dig up another"?
 
2013-02-21 08:35:04 PM

Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.

Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.


They're not getting the diamond back and they know it. This request is for the benefit of the Indian politician's constituents, just like Argentina and the Falklands, Teapartiers and illegals, and Armenians with Turkey.

Everyone knows this, so let's stop the moralizing and the cultural relativity and be pragmatic about it.
 
2013-02-21 08:35:57 PM

Somacandra: Weaver95: form and army and invade.

Why not point a nuke at the UK and say "hand it over motherfarker?" India is a nuclear power after all.


So is the UK. The only difference is the UK actually has delivery vehicles capable of reaching the other side of the world. And the UK has form when it comes to ruthlessness.
 
2013-02-21 08:41:34 PM

Cubicle Jockey: TV's Vinnie: An Indian's arrows would be crap vs a Roman Phalanx formation.

1.bp.blogspot.com

Hold up shields as the arrows bounce off, get in close, and remind the redskins the folly of pissing off whitey.


The centurion was a different episode. Coincidentally, they had him face off against the Rajput Warrior of India. They concluded the centurion would lose that match up as well, mostly on the basis of their close range weapon of choice. I could see that as the Rajputs were trained more for one on one combat as opposed to the teamwork based legions.


But mostly because he's white, and the show's producers seem to have a real hate-on for nearly any European type of fighter and love to have them lose against any other warrior.

Only match-up I ever saw where whitebreads won was a matchup between the Waffen SS and the Viet Cong (and I get a feeling the ones responsible for that outrage are now in several steel drums in the Everglades). Even the show's producers had to admit that an AK-47 has crap accuracy.
 
2013-02-21 08:45:39 PM
Britain didn't steal that diamond from "India." They took it from the last of a long line of ruling cutthroats who had stolen it back and forth across Asia for centuries. The East India Company got legal title to it along with the rest of the Singh families kingdom in Punjab, in exchange for Duleep Singh living a comfortable exile in Great Britain pllus 50,000 pounds a year. And the East India Company gave it to Queen Victoria and her heirs. The British royal family are just about the only owners who DIDN'T steal it.
 
2013-02-21 08:46:49 PM

Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.

Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.

They're not getting the diamond back and they know it. This request is for the benefit of the Indian politician's constituents, just like Argentina and the Falklands, Teapartiers and illegals, and Armenians with Turkey.

Everyone knows this, so let's stop the moralizing and the cultural relativity and be pragmatic about it.


I wonder why you never ask why the British will never return the diamond. Is the political face and the fear that it will be interpreted as a sign of weakness on the part of the British politicians worth defending over the dignity of the Indian people and nation?
 
2013-02-21 08:52:00 PM
Who cares?

How would Indians benefit from its return?
 
2013-02-21 08:55:01 PM

Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.

Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.

They're not getting the diamond back and they know it. This request is for the benefit of the Indian politician's constituents, just like Argentina and the Falklands, Teapartiers and illegals, and Armenians with Turkey.

Everyone knows this, so let's stop the moralizing and the cultural relativity and be pragmatic about it.

I wonder why you never ask why the British will never return the diamond. Is the political face and the fear that it will be interpreted as a sign of weakness on the part of the British politicians worth defendin ...


As described above the British were pretty much the only people who got the diamond and didn't murder the current owner for it. Hell "India" was a geographic term in the 1800's, the only people who have any claim whatsoever for the diamond are the descendants of the Sultan who gave it as a gift, not the rest of modern India. Hell given the circumstances, the diamond has more significance in British history than what we currently call India.
 
2013-02-21 09:03:46 PM

links136: peasants_are_revolting: This text is now purple: Somacandra: The moral of the story: colonialism sucks ass (the bad kind), no matter how hard Dinesh D'Souza tries to polish that turd.

It's hard to complain too hard about British colonialism. They tended to leave places in better condition than they found them.

\Now Belgian colonialism...

Exactly. Most of the places the Brits colonized would have zero infrastructure if they hadn't been there. I get tired of former colonies, particularly on the African continent, blaming all of their problems on the West.

Didn't britain start i's colonization in the 1600's?  When infrastructure was dirt roads?  And largely depended on slave labour?  Such as the original infrastructure of America?  I'm really not an expert, but it seems like britain gave infrastructure that they wouldn't have had like Iraq now has infrastructure like they wouldn't have had.  In fact, wasn't the Caribbean colonies in the 18th century populated 3/4ths by African slaves?


And ... your point?
 
2013-02-21 09:04:43 PM
pstudent12: *EXTENSIVE RAMBLINGS CUT*

And your own country has a history of the exact same at the least. History is the word however.

I WILL NOT feel guilty about stuff done while my ancestors worked for basic bread down a mine in Northern England. Sorry, I just will not. I especially will not listen to demands from people who are themselves rich and powerful off the backs of poverty stricken masses in their own countries, who they treat abominably, as they try to deflect with nationalist tripe.
 
2013-02-21 09:07:52 PM
Not sure what the big deal is. We've been psychologically conditioned to want a diamond.
The diamond engagement ring is a 73-year-old invention of N.W.Ayer advertising agency. The De Beers diamond cartel contracted N.W.Ayer to create a demand for what are, essentially, useless hunks of rock.
 
2013-02-21 09:11:26 PM
Happy Hours
Who cares?

How would Indians benefit from its return?

This.  It sounds like typical grandstanding by some idiot politician.  I suspect the average Indian laborer would rather have their elected politician get some money to their respective village so they can buy a water pump and/or have regular sanitation system.

Not some dumb rock that will sit in another museum in Mumbai or Dehli that the peasants will never visit.
 
2013-02-21 09:12:56 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Dumb, just dumb. All of this is dumb. We should nuke India to prevent further outbreak.


Yeah, because they are brown, right. go learn some history dipshiat
 
2013-02-21 09:16:23 PM

Happy Hours: Who cares?

How would Indians benefit from its return?


Just symbolic. some talkingheads want to make a name for them in India (Read, Gandhi's grandson etc..) and they raise this. Dumbasses should go find on ways to improve the state of the nation
 
2013-02-21 09:17:11 PM

Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.

Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.

They're not getting the diamond back and they know it. This request is for the benefit of the Indian politician's constituents, just like Argentina and the Falklands, Teapartiers and illegals, and Armenians with Turkey.

Everyone knows this, so let's stop the moralizing and the cultural relativity and be pragmatic about it.

I wonder why you never ask why the British will never return the diamond. Is the political face and the fear that it will be interpreted as a sign of weakness on the part of the British politicians w ...


According to wikipedia (I know...), the diamond belong to this fellow named  Ranjīt Singh, and after his death the British simply took it as their own without anylegal precedence. So instead of having to murder for it, they went on a grave-robbing, but I guess anything that isn't murder is high standards for the British Empire.

At the end of the day it always goes back to the "well it isn't stealing because they didn't have their name on it" argument. These kinds of discussion is getting old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-i-Noor#Taken_from_India_to_England
 
2013-02-21 09:17:56 PM

gaspode: pstudent12: *EXTENSIVE RAMBLINGS CUT*

And your own country has a history of the exact same at the least. History is the word however.

I WILL NOT feel guilty about stuff done while my ancestors worked for basic bread down a mine in Northern England. Sorry, I just will not. I especially will not listen to demands from people who are themselves rich and powerful off the backs of poverty stricken masses in their own countries, who they treat abominably, as they try to deflect with nationalist tripe.


Exactly this.  While India is cultivating a space program their poor people are among the most wretched people on earth.  The appalling poverty, lack of education, rampant corruption at every level and horrific treatment of women means that the Indian government has a lot to do to become a civilised place where civilised people can live and work.  Giving them a gaudy bauble of doubtful provenance won't chane any of that.
 
2013-02-21 09:18:52 PM

Deep Contact: Not sure what the big deal is. We've been psychologically conditioned to want a diamond.
The diamond engagement ring is a 73-year-old invention of N.W.Ayer advertising agency. The De Beers diamond cartel contracted N.W.Ayer to create a demand for what are, essentially, useless hunks of rock.


This particular diamond has been the prize of warlords and rulers for the better part of a millennium. The modern notion is that everyone should have one.
 
2013-02-21 09:24:33 PM

Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.

Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.

They're not getting the diamond back and they know it. This request is for the benefit of the Indian politician's constituents, just like Argentina and the Falklands, Teapartiers and illegals, and Armenians with Turkey.

Everyone knows this, so let's stop the moralizing and the cultural relativity and be pragmatic about it.

I wonder why you never ask why the British will never return the diamond. Is the political face and the fear that it will be interpreted as a sign of weakness on the part of the British po ...


It's a god damn rock. It belongs to the old ruler's family if anyone, not India. Did they take it under questionable circumstances? Yep. Is India going to get it back? Nope.
 
2013-02-21 09:24:40 PM

Spiralmonkey: gaspode: pstudent12: *EXTENSIVE RAMBLINGS CUT*

And your own country has a history of the exact same at the least. History is the word however.

I WILL NOT feel guilty about stuff done while my ancestors worked for basic bread down a mine in Northern England. Sorry, I just will not. I especially will not listen to demands from people who are themselves rich and powerful off the backs of poverty stricken masses in their own countries, who they treat abominably, as they try to deflect with nationalist tripe.

Exactly this.  While India is cultivating a space program their poor people are among the most wretched people on earth.  The appalling poverty, lack of education, rampant corruption at every level and horrific treatment of women means that the Indian government has a lot to do to become a civilised place where civilised people can live and work.  Giving them a gaudy bauble of doubtful provenance won't chane any of that.


what kind of twisted logic is this? So, basically you are saying that only if India will get their problems fixed, then they are worthy of getting gifts? And why are people of India supposed not developed in the first place? Maybe it's because british occupation stunted their growth for 200+ years? Are you even aware of how much wealth was transfered from India to britain?
 
2013-02-21 09:30:53 PM

Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: Fallout Boy: Lunchlady: pstudent12: Treygreen13:
Half of their own countries only belong to them through conquest and subjugation. Why is there something special about the european conquests of the 16-19 centuries that makes that stuff 'stolen'?

White guilt.

Treygreen13:
You are so riiight. White guilt ! That's it!

The multiple holocausts, mass starvations concentration camps, mutilations and destruction have nothing to do with it, it's a little guilt...much like the Nazis too are not revered and celebrated because of ..white guilt getting in the way. Suuuch a brilliant clarifying observation....

Alright, fine I feel frigin awesome about the atrocities committed by the West from 1600 to roughly 1950. Best thing that we white folk have ever done!

Seriously, what would you have us do? Spend untold trillions making things better? Putting a band-aid on things and saying, "Yay all fixed!". Your moralizing would be admirable if it wasn't so pointless.

Well, returning the diamond, and putting a lid on your condescending biatch attitude would be a start. Actually, it would be an end, too, since no country has seriously demanded reparations and all they have asked for is to bury the hatchet with small requests such as this one. But let's make a giant deal out of it as if this small gesture of conciliation will somehow eventually lead to Europe having to pay back all the monetary damages of four centuries adjusted for inflation.

They're not getting the diamond back and they know it. This request is for the benefit of the Indian politician's constituents, just like Argentina and the Falklands, Teapartiers and illegals, and Armenians with Turkey.

Everyone knows this, so let's stop the moralizing and the cultural relativity and be pragmatic about it.

I wonder why you never ask why the British will never return the diamond. Is the political face and the fear that it will be interpreted as a sign of weakness on the part of t ...


Well, would you support Britain returning it to the family  of the old king? Like, if anybody from the family asks, they would return it
 
2013-02-21 09:38:44 PM

you are a puppet: They should give India a glass dragon instead.

SERIOUSLY THOUGH, as a man of Indian descent, the British were real scumbags to my ancestors right up until they left http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre

A real hero was this dude - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udham_Singh

Just a diamond, can't make anything right. But that scumbag country made heroes of those people for showing the upstart Indians who was boss. If Britain want to pretend they've changed, this is one step.


Luckily India never pushed over another country and stole whatever of value that wasn't bolted down (or the equivalent of the time). Otherwise they'd have to start giving everything back to, which we all know would be unreasonable. I mean, they are practically a third world country where most people still shiat in the street while the Brits have nice stuff.

Walker: You are comparing apples and oranges. This is a physical item that was stolen and can be given back. A better comparison would be things the Nazis stole during WW2 from other countries now being in Germany's possessions. The other countries ask for them back and Germany says "F*ck you, we don't believe in returnism".


See the previous bit. If everyone was forced to give things back because they "stole" it by conquest we'd have to start a second one of these. I'm not even going to start about non-territorial possessions. Just the effort in reconstructing every bit of lost loot would cripple the world economy for decades,
 
2013-02-21 09:44:28 PM

andhravodu: those bottomfeeders can keep that overhyped piece of rock. We are busy making progress. and besides, in 50 years, they will be begging to come to India anyway. But we are elephants, we have a loooong memory


w/ all the Indians living & moving there now, sounds like it'd be a unilateral move to me.
 
2013-02-21 09:48:01 PM

DerAppie: you are a puppet: They should give India a glass dragon instead.

SERIOUSLY THOUGH, as a man of Indian descent, the British were real scumbags to my ancestors right up until they left http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre

A real hero was this dude - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udham_Singh

Just a diamond, can't make anything right. But that scumbag country made heroes of those people for showing the upstart Indians who was boss. If Britain want to pretend they've changed, this is one step.

Luckily India never pushed over another country and stole whatever of value that wasn't bolted down (or the equivalent of the time). Otherwise they'd have to start giving everything back to, which we all know would be unreasonable. I mean, they are practically a third world country where most people still shiat in the street while the Brits have nice stuff.

Walker: You are comparing apples and oranges. This is a physical item that was stolen and can be given back. A better comparison would be things the Nazis stole during WW2 from other countries now being in Germany's possessions. The other countries ask for them back and Germany says "F*ck you, we don't believe in returnism".

See the previous bit. If everyone was forced to give things back because they "stole" it by conquest we'd have to start a second one of these. I'm not even going to start about non-territorial possessions. Just the effort in reconstructing every bit of lost loot would cripple the world economy for decades,


I think you came off a little condescending in your description of India. Your impressions of India are a little dated. The rich class in India is comparable to any of the world's elite. The middle class has been enjoying a boom of sorts. Until 5-10 years ago, almost every body who got the chance immigrated to firstworld countries, but with the depresssion and newer opportunities, there is a lot of reverse migration back to India.
 
2013-02-21 09:52:37 PM

andhravodu: Spiralmonkey: gaspode: pstudent12: *EXTENSIVE RAMBLINGS CUT*

And your own country has a history of the exact same at the least. History is the word however.

I WILL NOT feel guilty about stuff done while my ancestors worked for basic bread down a mine in Northern England. Sorry, I just will not. I especially will not listen to demands from people who are themselves rich and powerful off the backs of poverty stricken masses in their own countries, who they treat abominably, as they try to deflect with nationalist tripe.

Exactly this.  While India is cultivating a space program their poor people are among the most wretched people on earth.  The appalling poverty, lack of education, rampant corruption at every level and horrific treatment of women means that the Indian government has a lot to do to become a civilised place where civilised people can live and work.  Giving them a gaudy bauble of doubtful provenance won't chane any of that.

what kind of twisted logic is this? So, basically you are saying that only if India will get their problems fixed, then they are worthy of getting gifts? And why are people of India supposed not developed in the first place? Maybe it's because british occupation stunted their growth for 200+ years? Are you even aware of how much wealth was transfered from India to britain?


No kind of twisted logic.  Try to follow.  In reply to the comment above by Gaspode, I said I agreed with him.  I don't feel any kind of guilt about anything I didn't do.  Further to that, I also agreed that demands made by people who have gotten rich by exploiting the poorest in their own country are in no position to make moralistic demands of anyone.  Still with me so far?

OK, here's the bit where I think I lost you.  I think the Indian government would be doing better for their people if they spent their energies on actually fixing all the many and varied things that are wrong with Indian society instead of whining about a lump of carbon that they have no title to.  It's not a question of deserving presents when deemed worthy, it's just that they have no moral high ground to shout from, they have no title to the said lump of carbon and they have more pressing things that need their attention.

No twisted logic involved.  No-one said India had to do their chores before they got pudding.  I think the weight of that chip on your shoulder is not helping with your understanding of plain written English.

FYI - shiatting in the streets and throwing dead bodies in the drinking water are not fine old British customs.   Mote / eye, and all that.
 
2013-02-21 09:56:18 PM
If Britain started to give back the stuff they stole they'd lose 9/10 of the British Museum.
 
2013-02-21 09:58:07 PM

Somacandra: The moral of the story: colonialism sucks ass (the bad kind), no matter how hard Dinesh D'Souza tries to polish that turd.


D'Souza is a think tank hack who will say anything to make a buck.
 
2013-02-21 10:03:11 PM

unlikely: cretinbob: "The right answer is for the British Museum and other cultural institutions to do exactly what they do, which is to link up with other institutions around the world to make sure that the things which we have and look after so well are properly shared with people around the world."

I'm OK with this

I've seen the Elgin marbles, and I've seen the current state of the original from which they were cast. I'm 100% okay with the British Museum hanging on to a great deal of the world's cultural heritage.


When I saw the Elgin marbles there were no guards or security cameras in the room.  So I took one.
 
2013-02-21 10:06:07 PM

Spiralmonkey: andhravodu: Spiralmonkey: gaspode: pstudent12: *EXTENSIVE RAMBLINGS CUT*

And your own country has a history of the exact same at the least. History is the word however.

I WILL NOT feel guilty about stuff done while my ancestors worked for basic bread down a mine in Northern England. Sorry, I just will not. I especially will not listen to demands from people who are themselves rich and powerful off the backs of poverty stricken masses in their own countries, who they treat abominably, as they try to deflect with nationalist tripe.

Exactly this.  While India is cultivating a space program their poor people are among the most wretched people on earth.  The appalling poverty, lack of education, rampant corruption at every level and horrific treatment of women means that the Indian government has a lot to do to become a civilised place where civilised people can live and work.  Giving them a gaudy bauble of doubtful provenance won't chane any of that.

what kind of twisted logic is this? So, basically you are saying that only if India will get their problems fixed, then they are worthy of getting gifts? And why are people of India supposed not developed in the first place? Maybe it's because british occupation stunted their growth for 200+ years? Are you even aware of how much wealth was transfered from India to britain?

No kind of twisted logic.  Try to follow.  In reply to the comment above by Gaspode, I said I agreed with him.  I don't feel any kind of guilt about anything I didn't do.  Further to that, I also agreed that demands made by people who have gotten rich by exploiting the poorest in their own country are in no position to make moralistic demands of anyone.  Still with me so far?

OK, here's the bit where I think I lost you.  I think the Indian government would be doing better for their people if they spent their energies on actually fixing all the many and varied things that are wrong with Indian society instead of whining about a lump of carbon that th ...


FTA: One of the world's largest diamonds, some Indians - including independence leader Mahatma Gandhi's grandson - have demanded its return to atone for Britain's colonial

Keyword being some. It's nothing more than a weasel word and even then, they couldn't find anybody from actual Indian government. So yeah, Indian government isn't losing any sleep over a dumb rock

The appalling poverty, lack of education, rampant corruption at every level and horrific treatment of womenIf I judge a country from Fark headlines, I would have to imagine Britain has got nothing more than a bunch of dumb, drunk chavs get knocked up with their father-in-law and make their living only by sucking on government teat. Sound about right?
FYI - shiatting in the streets and throwing dead bodies in the drinking water are not fine old British customs.   Mote / eye, and all that.Ah, the trump card in any discussion on India. How does this pertain to returning the diamond?
 
2013-02-21 10:10:09 PM

Fano: ITGreen: "One of the world's largest diamonds, some Indians - including independence leader Mahatma Gandhi's grandson - have demanded its return to atone for Britain's colonial past. "

So one diamond will atone for Britain's colonial wrongdoings?  No?  Then giving it back is only the first in a line of  "atonement" gestures to be demanded later by India.

I actually agree with the British on this one; nip this stunt of theirs in the bud.

Is Koh-i-noor the Arkenstone?


It's the Spirit Stone.
 
2013-02-21 10:14:26 PM
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-02-21 10:26:40 PM
andhravodu: lots of vacuous sophomoric words....

Why would you say I judge anything on Fark headlines?  Please explain your in-depth knowledge of my experiences that would lead you to make such a ridiculous statement.  Do you really think the state that India is in is unknown to anyone who isn't Indian?  The Times of India isnt Fark and they have a lot to say about it, and I have been to India and seen the human detritus that is left on the streets.  It's not a visit I'd care to repeat.  I had such high hopes of finding a vibrant, civilised country and the reality was shocking.

While we're at it, please explain why you think the Indian government have any right to the lump of carbon?
 
2013-02-21 10:51:53 PM
Spiralmonkey: doesn't get the point

While we're at it, please explain why you think the Indian government have any right to the lump of carbon?

read again. Nobody in Indian government has asked for the diamond. But why would the Indian government have any right? It's because it was stolen out of there? And if you think it belongs to the family members of the king from whom it was stolen, well then the system of monarchy/independent rulers was dissolved and their property belongs to Indian government, this automatically qualifies.

Times of India and any other entities are part of Media. By practice they magnify/exaggerate the system

Bunch of words about poverty in India
I have no interest in changing your opinion. Just note that british left india in a very poor state after looting them for 200+ years. The country has recovered quite nicely for it's size in <70 years. You just have to look past the trees, but I doubt you would
 
2013-02-21 11:15:33 PM

DerAppie: you are a puppet: They should give India a glass dragon instead.

SERIOUSLY THOUGH, as a man of Indian descent, the British were real scumbags to my ancestors right up until they left http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre

A real hero was this dude - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udham_Singh

Just a diamond, can't make anything right. But that scumbag country made heroes of those people for showing the upstart Indians who was boss. If Britain want to pretend they've changed, this is one step.

Luckily India never pushed over another country and stole whatever of value that wasn't bolted down (or the equivalent of the time). Otherwise they'd have to start giving everything back to, which we all know would be unreasonable. I mean, they are practically a third world country where most people still shiat in the street while the Brits have nice stuff.

Walker: You are comparing apples and oranges. This is a physical item that was stolen and can be given back. A better comparison would be things the Nazis stole during WW2 from other countries now being in Germany's possessions. The other countries ask for them back and Germany says "F*ck you, we don't believe in returnism".

See the previous bit. If everyone was forced to give things back because they "stole" it by conquest we'd have to start a second one of these. I'm not even going to start about non-territorial possessions. Just the effort in reconstructing every bit of lost loot would cripple the world economy for decades,


Most people in your neighborhood shiat in your moms mouth but that doesn't mean she's not a human being.
 
2013-02-21 11:16:43 PM
d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net
 
2013-02-21 11:18:16 PM
www.epiclol.com
 
2013-02-21 11:20:45 PM

germ78: Fano: germ78: Kinda off-topic in a way, but I was very disappointed by the Hope diamond. I thought it would be a fist-sized gem, but it's only as big as 3 quarters stacked on each other. farking. Lame.

You must have been thinking of the famed Baseball Diamond.

Wasn't that a Duck Tales episode?


24.media.tumblr.com
Not sure if serious
 
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