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(Philly.com)   The NCAA says that any fines it imposes need to go into the pockets of NCAA administrators or else the world will stop spinning   (philly.com) divider line 54
    More: Amusing, NCAA, Penn State, collegiate sports, Mark Emmert, FBI Director Louis Freeh, pockets, Joe Paterno, metal spinning  
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976 clicks; posted to Sports » on 21 Feb 2013 at 11:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-21 09:37:04 AM
It's really hard to root for Corbett in this mess since it was his actions as AG that kept Sandusky a free man because he was able to get Corbett money for his election through the Second Mile charity.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-21 09:42:28 AM
Is there some way to make everybody lose? NCAA, governor, Sandusky, Paterno's ghost, and Penn State trustees and directors?
 
2013-02-21 10:35:54 AM
Whar second mile investigation whar?
 
2013-02-21 10:36:57 AM
The NCAA can kiss my ass.
 
2013-02-21 11:28:35 AM
They should hook a generator up to the amount of spinning they will need to do to some how avoid giving Miami (FL) the death penalty.  The U has stink five layers deep, is a repeat offender, so it should be clear.  But they are from the south, part of the good old boy network, make money, so they'll get a beatdown but not dead.   The way they handle some school (like this case) show they play favorites, and it's just revolting.  "Student athletes" more like "Profit Units"
 
2013-02-21 11:29:37 AM
I wish we could just put everyone involved in this on a rocket and fire them into the sun.
 
2013-02-21 11:30:46 AM

ZAZ: Is there some way to make everybody lose? NCAA, governor, Sandusky, Paterno's ghost, and Penn State trustees and directors?


I say we dust off for evac, nuke it from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure.
 
2013-02-21 11:46:47 AM
LOL Penn State only pays fines to Penn State LOL.

You win again Sandusky.
 
2013-02-21 11:53:13 AM

dougermouse: They should hook a generator up to the amount of spinning they will need to do to some how avoid giving Miami (FL) the death penalty.  The U has stink five layers deep, is a repeat offender, so it should be clear.  But they are from the south, part of the good old boy network, make money, so they'll get a beatdown but not dead.   The way they handle some school (like this case) show they play favorites, and it's just revolting.  "Student athletes" more like "Profit Units"


By the NCAA's own admission, they botched the investigation of the University of Miami as much as they possibly could.  I think "the U" was probably ripe for the pickings, but the NCAA shiat the bed on this one.
 
2013-02-21 11:56:12 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-21 11:58:08 AM

dougermouse: They should hook a generator up to the amount of spinning they will need to do to some how avoid giving Miami (FL) the death penalty.  The U has stink five layers deep, is a repeat offender, so it should be clear.  But they are from the south, part of the good old boy network, make money, so they'll get a beatdown but not dead.   The way they handle some school (like this case) show they play favorites, and it's just revolting.  "Student athletes" more like "Profit Units"


Except a repeat offender is a school that breaks the NCAA rules more than once every 5 years. Pretty sure Miami doesn't fit that bill in the last 5 years so you can cross that off your list.

Miami isn't getting the death penalty, there's no chance they would have and there's not any "spin" they'd need to justify not using it.
 
2013-02-21 12:01:49 PM

sforce: dougermouse: They should hook a generator up to the amount of spinning they will need to do to some how avoid giving Miami (FL) the death penalty.  The U has stink five layers deep, is a repeat offender, so it should be clear.  But they are from the south, part of the good old boy network, make money, so they'll get a beatdown but not dead.   The way they handle some school (like this case) show they play favorites, and it's just revolting.  "Student athletes" more like "Profit Units"

Except a repeat offender is a school that breaks the NCAA rules more than once every 5 years. Pretty sure Miami doesn't fit that bill in the last 5 years so you can cross that off your list.

Miami isn't getting the death penalty, there's no chance they would have and there's not any "spin" they'd need to justify not using it.


Correction. I guess if the violations occurred within 5 years of a previous one then that's what matters. Not if one occurred within 5 years from today's date. Not sure when they had their last NCAA violation so maybe they would be considered a repeat offender. Regardless my second comment still stands.


I'd be surprised to see any school get the death penalty these days. Too much money involved, too much at stake for the conferences.
 
2013-02-21 12:07:28 PM
Keep this up and congress will decide to help.
 
2013-02-21 12:09:02 PM
The NCAA keeps looking worse and worse with every decision it makes. It's been clear for a long time their main concern is money and not colleges, students, or athletes
 
2013-02-21 12:11:13 PM
I think the NCAA should just kick Penn State out - no longer making them an association member thus making it impossible to schedule games against other NCAA teams - the University can stay in the B1G (a la UChicago) but the sports teams get cut out too.

I am no fan of the NCAA (and think this money should go to charities to protect children) - but I am just done with Penn State.
 
2013-02-21 12:12:26 PM
I can't believe the Penn State supporters aren't shutting the fark up about all of this.  They shouldn't have a football team at all.
 
2013-02-21 12:17:30 PM

p the boiler: I think the NCAA should just kick Penn State out - no longer making them an association member thus making it impossible to schedule games against other NCAA teams - the University can stay in the B1G (a la UChicago) but the sports teams get cut out too.

I am no fan of the NCAA (and think this money should go to charities to protect children) - but I am just done with Penn State.


I can't get over the fact that some Penn State fans still whine about the sanctions they got. Penn State deserved to have its football program nuked from orbit - they should worship the NCAA for even letting them field a team. Let's face it: if they didn't make so much money, they'd be gone and their stadium would be a parking garage by now.

But no, they have the gall to keep whining about how unfairly they were treated when they walked away with a slap on the wrist. Not difficult to see how the Paterno/Sandusky scandal occurred in that type of culture.
 
2013-02-21 12:30:00 PM
 
2013-02-21 12:35:30 PM

Nabb1: dougermouse: They should hook a generator up to the amount of spinning they will need to do to some how avoid giving Miami (FL) the death penalty.  The U has stink five layers deep, is a repeat offender, so it should be clear.  But they are from the south, part of the good old boy network, make money, so they'll get a beatdown but not dead.   The way they handle some school (like this case) show they play favorites, and it's just revolting.  "Student athletes" more like "Profit Units"

By the NCAA's own admission, they botched the investigation of the University of Miami as much as they possibly could.  I think "the U" was probably ripe for the pickings, but the NCAA shiat the bed on this one.


But no one traded memorabilia for tattoos, right? Allegations against Miami cant be that bad since the NCAA would be all over that
 
2013-02-21 12:39:16 PM
According to the article, with the NCAA plan the 60 million was going to:

The Freeh report, the result of an inquiry conducted by former FBI Director Louis Freeh at the university's behest, became the basis for a consent decree between Penn State and the NCAA. Subsequent sanctions against the school included a $60 million fine to be paid over five years into an endowment for child-abuse programs.

With the new PA law:

The Pennsylvania legislation received final approval Wednesday in the House before being signed by the governor. Senate Bill 187, sponsored by Sen. Jake Corman (R., Centre), would place the fines in a trust administered by the state Treasury and appropriated to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. From there the money would go to child-advocacy programs.

So the PA plan would have the money "filtered" through the government and eventually some of it going towards child advocacy, what ever that is.  The NCAA's plan has it going to help child abuse programs which may or may not be all in PA.  All things considered, I think the NCAA's plan has a better chance of actually helping little buggered kids.

Both the NCAA and Penn State
 
2013-02-21 12:41:12 PM
Sorry about the last line.  I was going to write that both organizations chug but I thought it was obvious and meant to delete the last line before i posted.
 
2013-02-21 01:11:12 PM
Ex post facto?
 
2013-02-21 01:17:32 PM

Nabb1: dougermouse: They should hook a generator up to the amount of spinning they will need to do to some how avoid giving Miami (FL) the death penalty.  The U has stink five layers deep, is a repeat offender, so it should be clear.  But they are from the south, part of the good old boy network, make money, so they'll get a beatdown but not dead.   The way they handle some school (like this case) show they play favorites, and it's just revolting.  "Student athletes" more like "Profit Units"

By the NCAA's own admission, they botched the investigation of the University of Miami as much as they possibly could.  I think "the U" was probably ripe for the pickings, but the NCAA shiat the bed on this one.


This.  I'm actually surprised that the NCAA is going ahead with any punishment (beyond what Miami has already done) after that mess.  They sure as shiat don't want this thing dragged into court and I'm pretty sure Shalala is more than willing to do that at this point.
 
2013-02-21 01:25:55 PM

Nabb1: dougermouse: They should hook a generator up to the amount of spinning they will need to do to some how avoid giving Miami (FL) the death penalty.  The U has stink five layers deep, is a repeat offender, so it should be clear.  But they are from the south, part of the good old boy network, make money, so they'll get a beatdown but not dead.   The way they handle some school (like this case) show they play favorites, and it's just revolting.  "Student athletes" more like "Profit Units"

By the NCAA's own admission, they botched the investigation of the University of Miami as much as they possibly could.  I think "the U" was probably ripe for the pickings, but the NCAA shiat the bed on this one.


Yeah I'm guessing if the NCAA comes down even semi-hard on "the U", they'll be lawsuits a flyin'.
 
2013-02-21 01:31:36 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I can't believe the Penn State supporters aren't shutting the fark up about all of this.  They shouldn't have a football team at all.


PSU willingly accepts the penalties imposed on them, but the students, the boosters and the state still want to pass the buck to either Sandusky or hope everybody has a case of amnesia and PSU can go back to playing bowl games.

It's the Buck Weaver syndrome:  They shouldn't be screwed because they weren't involved, yet people knew about it and decided not to report it or ignore it altogether.
 
2013-02-21 01:35:22 PM

rugman11: Nabb1: dougermouse: They should hook a generator up to the amount of spinning they will need to do to some how avoid giving Miami (FL) the death penalty.  The U has stink five layers deep, is a repeat offender, so it should be clear.  But they are from the south, part of the good old boy network, make money, so they'll get a beatdown but not dead.   The way they handle some school (like this case) show they play favorites, and it's just revolting.  "Student athletes" more like "Profit Units"

By the NCAA's own admission, they botched the investigation of the University of Miami as much as they possibly could.  I think "the U" was probably ripe for the pickings, but the NCAA shiat the bed on this one.

This.  I'm actually surprised that the NCAA is going ahead with any punishment (beyond what Miami has already done) after that mess.  They sure as shiat don't want this thing dragged into court and I'm pretty sure Shalala is more than willing to do that at this point.


When Shalala released the press release after the NCAA investigation into themselves I thought it read like "We're going to sue you." Then I saw her press release the next day after the NOA .. The only way Miami doesn't sue is if the NCAA says time served or adds such minor punishment that it's not worth it to sue. Her press releases were nice to read, a school finally telling the NCAA to go fark itself.

Also there was a story a couple weeks ago about Miami planning a lawsuit, not widely reported (could be rumor) but I believe it.
 
2013-02-21 01:39:37 PM

Shtetl G: According to the article, with the NCAA plan the 60 million was going to:

The Freeh report, the result of an inquiry conducted by former FBI Director Louis Freeh at the university's behest, became the basis for a consent decree between Penn State and the NCAA. Subsequent sanctions against the school included a $60 million fine to be paid over five years into an endowment for child-abuse programs.

With the new PA law:

The Pennsylvania legislation received final approval Wednesday in the House before being signed by the governor. Senate Bill 187, sponsored by Sen. Jake Corman (R., Centre), would place the fines in a trust administered by the state Treasury and appropriated to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. From there the money would go to child-advocacy programs.

So the PA plan would have the money "filtered" through the government and eventually some of it going towards child advocacy, what ever that is.  The NCAA's plan has it going to help child abuse programs which may or may not be all in PA.  All things considered, I think the NCAA's plan has a better chance of actually helping little buggered kids.

Both the NCAA and Penn State


That's kind of my thing. The fine was imposed to punish PSU. If the state keeps the money, they'll just shuffle it back into the general budget as "advocacy programs" and slip PSU a different 60 million to make up for it, essentially negating those penalties.

In the other hand, I can see why the state legislature wouldn't want the NCAA to be able to suck $60 million out of the tax revenues of the people of Pennsylvania. That one isn't going to be popular anywhere.
 
2013-02-21 01:48:37 PM

Elegy: Shtetl G: According to the article, with the NCAA plan the 60 million was going to:

The Freeh report, the result of an inquiry conducted by former FBI Director Louis Freeh at the university's behest, became the basis for a consent decree between Penn State and the NCAA. Subsequent sanctions against the school included a $60 million fine to be paid over five years into an endowment for child-abuse programs.

With the new PA law:

The Pennsylvania legislation received final approval Wednesday in the House before being signed by the governor. Senate Bill 187, sponsored by Sen. Jake Corman (R., Centre), would place the fines in a trust administered by the state Treasury and appropriated to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. From there the money would go to child-advocacy programs.

So the PA plan would have the money "filtered" through the government and eventually some of it going towards child advocacy, what ever that is.  The NCAA's plan has it going to help child abuse programs which may or may not be all in PA.  All things considered, I think the NCAA's plan has a better chance of actually helping little buggered kids.

Both the NCAA and Penn State

That's kind of my thing. The fine was imposed to punish PSU. If the state keeps the money, they'll just shuffle it back into the general budget as "advocacy programs" and slip PSU a different 60 million to make up for it, essentially negating those penalties.

In the other hand, I can see why the state legislature wouldn't want the NCAA to be able to suck $60 million out of the tax revenues of the people of Pennsylvania. That one isn't going to be popular anywhere.


As a PA taxpayer, I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.  As a college sports fan, I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.  As a human, being I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.

I see a pattern developing here.
 
2013-02-21 02:09:24 PM
Any chance "child advocacy" involves some cash for the victims of the Kids for Cash scandal?
 
2013-02-21 02:43:59 PM

Rwa2play: It's the Buck Weaver syndrome: They shouldn't be screwed because they weren't involved, yet people knew about it and decided not to report it or ignore it altogether.


When I make a list of the people who shouldn't get screwed in this situation, I actually tend to put minors in a college locker room pretty high on the list.
 
2013-02-21 02:51:12 PM

Mr Guy: Rwa2play: It's the Buck Weaver syndrome: They shouldn't be screwed because they weren't involved, yet people knew about it and decided not to report it or ignore it altogether.

When I make a list of the people who shouldn't get screwed in this situation, I actually tend to put minors in a college locker room pretty high on the list.


Uh, yeah...bad choice of words on my part...
 
2013-02-21 02:57:02 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Elegy: Shtetl G: According to the article, with the NCAA plan the 60 million was going to:

The Freeh report, the result of an inquiry conducted by former FBI Director Louis Freeh at the university's behest, became the basis for a consent decree between Penn State and the NCAA. Subsequent sanctions against the school included a $60 million fine to be paid over five years into an endowment for child-abuse programs.

With the new PA law:

The Pennsylvania legislation received final approval Wednesday in the House before being signed by the governor. Senate Bill 187, sponsored by Sen. Jake Corman (R., Centre), would place the fines in a trust administered by the state Treasury and appropriated to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. From there the money would go to child-advocacy programs.

So the PA plan would have the money "filtered" through the government and eventually some of it going towards child advocacy, what ever that is.  The NCAA's plan has it going to help child abuse programs which may or may not be all in PA.  All things considered, I think the NCAA's plan has a better chance of actually helping little buggered kids.

Both the NCAA and Penn State

That's kind of my thing. The fine was imposed to punish PSU. If the state keeps the money, they'll just shuffle it back into the general budget as "advocacy programs" and slip PSU a different 60 million to make up for it, essentially negating those penalties.

In the other hand, I can see why the state legislature wouldn't want the NCAA to be able to suck $60 million out of the tax revenues of the people of Pennsylvania. That one isn't going to be popular anywhere.

As a PA taxpayer, I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.  As a college sports fan, I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.  As a human, being I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.

I see a pattern developing here.


You sound pissed off. You know what pisses me off?

It pisses me off when organizations cover up for a child rapist.

It pisses me off when the Second Mile - the charity that supplied Sandusky with his kids - is allowed to quietly shut its doors without an investigation.

And it absolutely pisses me off when PSU fans and PA residents scream "buh-buh-buh muh footballs!" and consistently attempt to evade any and all punishment for enabling a predator.

If PSU fans and PA residents had moral character, they would have self-administered the death penalty to the PSU football program - admitting that they had a problem - and avoided these NCAA sanctions all together.

If they had even a modicum of moral character, they wouldn't continue to complain about the NCAA penalties after the NCAA gave PSU fans what they were screaming for, a judgement that didn't involve disbanding the program for the next 2 years.

And if they had even the tiniest atom of moral character, PSU fans and PA residents wouldn't continue to fight every one of these penalties tooth and nail, to the extent of passing new laws to evade them.

All of that makes me angry. But at the end of the day, there is this: the NCAA is a voluntary collegiate organization and if it is so bad, PSU is welcome to leave it.

For my money, the NCAA is the good guy here. Out of PSU, the state legislature, and the NCAA, the NCAA is the only organization that has attempted to punish the organizational failings that let a child predator rape kiddies in the locker rooms for years.

But all of that "PSU integrity" we heard so much about? It was all an illusion. The proof of integrity comes in the hard times, not the easy ones, and integrity means you take your lumps when you are in the wrong - and PSU and the state legislature proves they lack even a scrap of integrity every time they try some new maneuver to avoid a justly deserved punishment.
 
2013-02-21 03:01:20 PM

Elegy: Marcus Aurelius: Elegy: Shtetl G: According to the article, with the NCAA plan the 60 million was going to:

The Freeh report, the result of an inquiry conducted by former FBI Director Louis Freeh at the university's behest, became the basis for a consent decree between Penn State and the NCAA. Subsequent sanctions against the school included a $60 million fine to be paid over five years into an endowment for child-abuse programs.

With the new PA law:

The Pennsylvania legislation received final approval Wednesday in the House before being signed by the governor. Senate Bill 187, sponsored by Sen. Jake Corman (R., Centre), would place the fines in a trust administered by the state Treasury and appropriated to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. From there the money would go to child-advocacy programs.

So the PA plan would have the money "filtered" through the government and eventually some of it going towards child advocacy, what ever that is.  The NCAA's plan has it going to help child abuse programs which may or may not be all in PA.  All things considered, I think the NCAA's plan has a better chance of actually helping little buggered kids.

Both the NCAA and Penn State

That's kind of my thing. The fine was imposed to punish PSU. If the state keeps the money, they'll just shuffle it back into the general budget as "advocacy programs" and slip PSU a different 60 million to make up for it, essentially negating those penalties.

In the other hand, I can see why the state legislature wouldn't want the NCAA to be able to suck $60 million out of the tax revenues of the people of Pennsylvania. That one isn't going to be popular anywhere.

As a PA taxpayer, I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.  As a college sports fan, I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.  As a human, being I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.

I see a pattern developing here.

You sound pissed off. You know what pisses me off?

It pisses me off when organizations cover up for ...


I have no problem shutting down Penn State football whatsoever.  I would prefer that option if it saved PA taxpayers a few bucks.  But NCAA football isn't going away, there's too much money in it, and that IS the root of the problem.  This crap could just have easily happened in Texas or Florida, with the exact same result - football is too precious to sacrifice, even for the welfare of children.

What SHOULD happen is that the NCAA has to pay a fine to the state of Pennsylvania for their own lack of oversight of the Penn State football program.
 
2013-02-21 03:26:09 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Elegy: Marcus Aurelius: Elegy: Shtetl G: According to the article, with the NCAA plan the 60 million was going to:

The Freeh report, the result of an inquiry conducted by former FBI Director Louis Freeh at the university's behest, became the basis for a consent decree between Penn State and the NCAA. Subsequent sanctions against the school included a $60 million fine to be paid over five years into an endowment for child-abuse programs.

With the new PA law:

The Pennsylvania legislation received final approval Wednesday in the House before being signed by the governor. Senate Bill 187, sponsored by Sen. Jake Corman (R., Centre), would place the fines in a trust administered by the state Treasury and appropriated to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. From there the money would go to child-advocacy programs.

So the PA plan would have the money "filtered" through the government and eventually some of it going towards child advocacy, what ever that is.  The NCAA's plan has it going to help child abuse programs which may or may not be all in PA.  All things considered, I think the NCAA's plan has a better chance of actually helping little buggered kids.

Both the NCAA and Penn State

That's kind of my thing. The fine was imposed to punish PSU. If the state keeps the money, they'll just shuffle it back into the general budget as "advocacy programs" and slip PSU a different 60 million to make up for it, essentially negating those penalties.

In the other hand, I can see why the state legislature wouldn't want the NCAA to be able to suck $60 million out of the tax revenues of the people of Pennsylvania. That one isn't going to be popular anywhere.

As a PA taxpayer, I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.  As a college sports fan, I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.  As a human, being I want the NCAA to go fark themselves.

I see a pattern developing here.

You sound pissed off. You know what pisses me off?

It pisses me off when organizations cover up for ...

I have no problem shutting down Penn State football whatsoever.  I would prefer that option if it saved PA taxpayers a few bucks.  But NCAA football isn't going away, there's too much money in it, and that IS the root of the problem.  This crap could just have easily happened in Texas or Florida, with the exact same result - football is too precious to sacrifice, even for the welfare of children.

What SHOULD happen is that the NCAA has to pay a fine to the state of Pennsylvania for their own lack of oversight of the Penn State football program.


LOLWUT.jpg

Let me get this straight. You want the PA state legislature to fine the NCAA for having their collective heads up their asses and not exerting enough oversight on PSU.

What... What... I'm sorry, I'm laughing too hard to type. What exactly do you think will happen then?

State legislature: NCAA, we are fining you for a lack of regulatory oversight at PSU
NCAA: Fine. Since we are legally liable, we are installing 10 new compliance officers in Happy Valley permanently, to insure that PSU never, ever suffers from a lack of regulatory oversight again. We will make sure that they are aware of every single violation of NCAA rules for the next decade, and punish them for each new
infraction in accordance with our bylaws, in order to ensure that no such situation arises ever again.

You see... Actions have consequences, and if you look past your emotional, knee jerk responses, I'm sure you'll agree.

All that needs to be done to make this situation "right" is for the NCAA to ensure that the $60m gets spent inside the borders of Pennsylvania. Taxpayer's problems solved.
 
2013-02-21 03:29:32 PM

bighairyguy: Ex post facto?


Exactly.  Courts bring the hammer down pretty fast on ex post facto laws as the Constitution is pretty clear in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 that "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.", so trying to get the Penn State money after the fact is going to be a non starter.  They could also cite the Nevada precedent that strikes down state-level guidelines for the operation of the national collegiate athletic oversight agency.  It was overturned after a federal court ruled that the commerce clause of the Constitution protected the national agency from state regulation.
.
 
2013-02-21 03:40:35 PM
Of course, all of the above ignores the fact that I highly doubt the legislature can "fine" anyone to the tune of $60m without a legal suit, whereas the NCAA can fine its voluntary members at will.
 
2013-02-21 03:42:18 PM
This also reminds me of when the mouth breathing Pennsylvania retards tried to say that the NCAA was unlawful in its sanctions because PSU was not given due process, which the NCAA was under no obligation to provide.  see e.g. In re NCAA v. Tarkanian, 488 U. S. 179 (1988).
 
2013-02-21 03:44:30 PM

Elegy: You see... Actions have consequences, and if you look past your emotional, knee jerk responses, I'm sure you'll agree


Like the University of Miami's recent violations, for example.  Oh wait, they're being swept under the rug!
 
2013-02-21 03:45:16 PM

Elegy: Of course, all of the above ignores the fact that I highly doubt the legislature can "fine" anyone to the tune of $60m without a legal suit, whereas the NCAA can fine its voluntary members at will.


Those are the breaks when you enter into a voluntary contractual agreement as you are submitting yourself to theirgovernance andjurisdiction.  I would be fine ifPSU decided to leave the NCAA and we never heard from thosemorans ever again.
 
2013-02-21 03:49:50 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Elegy: You see... Actions have consequences, and if you look past your emotional, knee jerk responses, I'm sure you'll agree

Like the University of Miami's recent violations, for example.  Oh wait, they're being swept under the rug!


Actually as it stands right now the complete opposite has happened at Miami. Instead of being swept under the rug they were charged with one of the most severe things they could be charged with.
 
2013-02-21 03:56:41 PM

Cucumber_Breath: bighairyguy: Ex post facto?

Exactly.  Courts bring the hammer down pretty fast on ex post facto laws as the Constitution is pretty clear in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 that "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.", so trying to get the Penn State money after the fact is going to be a non starter.  They could also cite the Nevada precedent that strikes down state-level guidelines for the operation of the national collegiate athletic oversight agency.  It was overturned after a federal court ruled that the commerce clause of the Constitution protected the national agency from state regulation.
.

My bad on this.  Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1 prohibits the states from making ex post facto laws, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 is for congress.
 
2013-02-21 04:01:49 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Elegy: You see... Actions have consequences, and if you look past your emotional, knee jerk responses, I'm sure you'll agree

Like the University of Miami's recent violations, for example.  Oh wait, they're being swept under the rug!


I'd say Miami is being treated quite differently than PSU. For some very good reasons.

Miami imposed sanctions on itself and has been publically contrite over the whole thing, in both actions and words. They voluntarily have themselves a 2 year bowl ban before the NCAA report. They are also contesting a bungled NCAA investigation, whereas PSU agreed with the Freeh report and agreed with NCAA to let that stand in for a larger investigation.

See, this is how the institutional game is played in the real world - you punish yourself before the NCAA does, so you have a leg to stand public relations wise when the NCAA comes calling for your head.

A fact that PSU has continually failed to grasp. As they fail to grasp that their absolute lack of tangible contrition is EXACTLY why people have been out for blood, and for somebody - ANYBODY - to slap the program.

Add to the fact that aiding and abetting the rape of children on campus is an entirely different type of moral failing than recruiting violations, and there's your differences.
 
2013-02-21 04:04:13 PM

sforce: Marcus Aurelius: Elegy: You see... Actions have consequences, and if you look past your emotional, knee jerk responses, I'm sure you'll agree

Like the University of Miami's recent violations, for example.  Oh wait, they're being swept under the rug!

Actually as it stands right now the complete opposite has happened at Miami. Instead of being swept under the rug they were charged with one of the most severe things they could be charged with.


And this. Last I heard they had also received a "lack of institutional control" charge, just as PSU did.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-02-21 04:15:42 PM
see e.g. In re NCAA v. Tarkanian, 488 U. S. 179 (1988)

Interesting case which I hadn't read before. NCAA said "suspend Tarkanian or else." NCAA was not a state actor and had no constitutional obligation to be fair to Tarkanian. On the other hand, Tarkanian did not work for NCAA. He worked for UNLV. UNLV is a state actor. They did owe Tarkanian due process. "Because NCAA said so" is not grounds to discipline a tenured professor. So UNLV's contracts with Tarkanian and the NCAA might be incompatible, leaving UNLV with no way to comply with both.

So it's possible for a school to end up legally unable to comply with NCAA rules.
 
2013-02-21 04:25:55 PM

Elegy: A fact that PSU has continually failed to grasp. As they fail to grasp that their absolute lack of tangible contrition is EXACTLY why people have been out for blood, and for somebody - ANYBODY - to slap the program.


It's not really PSU as an organization, though.  It's disconnected groups of PSU students, the PA gov't (who should know better, but seem to be in it solely to grub money) and Joe Paterno's next of kin.  As you said PSU accepted the Freeh report an did not appeal the NCAA sanctions.  Maybe they should also come out and say, "Would all of you shut up, you're making things worse" but there's no guarantee anyone would listen.  Also, Sandusky is in jail for life so there are (deserved) punishments that are far outside the scope of what the NCAA can do.

Probably Corbett should be investigated too but I guess it's hard to go after the governor.
 
2013-02-21 04:33:56 PM

Elegy: sforce: Marcus Aurelius: Elegy: You see... Actions have consequences, and if you look past your emotional, knee jerk responses, I'm sure you'll agree

Like the University of Miami's recent violations, for example.  Oh wait, they're being swept under the rug!

Actually as it stands right now the complete opposite has happened at Miami. Instead of being swept under the rug they were charged with one of the most severe things they could be charged with.

And this. Last I heard they had also received a "lack of institutional control" charge, just as PSU did.


The Miami story may've just gotten even better.

FL State Senator asks AG to investigate the NCAA
 
2013-02-21 05:11:42 PM

Rwa2play: Mr Guy: Rwa2play: It's the Buck Weaver syndrome: They shouldn't be screwed because they weren't involved, yet people knew about it and decided not to report it or ignore it altogether.

When I make a list of the people who shouldn't get screwed in this situation, I actually tend to put minors in a college locker room pretty high on the list.

Uh, yeah...bad choice of words on my part...


Damn. I literally loled at that.
 
2013-02-21 05:51:57 PM

you have pee hands: Elegy: A fact that PSU has continually failed to grasp. As they fail to grasp that their absolute lack of tangible contrition is EXACTLY why people have been out for blood, and for somebody - ANYBODY - to slap the program.

It's not really PSU as an organization, though.  It's disconnected groups of PSU students, the PA gov't (who should know better, but seem to be in it solely to grub money) and Joe Paterno's next of kin.  As you said PSU accepted the Freeh report an did not appeal the NCAA sanctions.  Maybe they should also come out and say, "Would all of you shut up, you're making things worse" but there's no guarantee anyone would listen.  Also, Sandusky is in jail for life so there are (deserved) punishments that are far outside the scope of what the NCAA can do.

Probably Corbett should be investigated too but I guess it's hard to go after the governor.


I some degree you're right, and I am unintentionally conflating the rabid PSU numbskulls with the institution itself, and for that I apologize.

Overall, I'd give the institution a C- grade on this whole thing. I say that, because publicly their stance has been one of "hunker down, let the NCAA punish us, and hope it blows over." Not only has it been ineffective, it undercuts all of that moral superiority of the grand experiment thing they've been harping on for years. But good on them for not (to my knowledge) contesting the NCAA sanctions.

Much better in my opinion would have been for one farking person at PSU stand up and say "I didn't cause this, but by gawd I'm going to take responsibility for it" and assign XYZ self-imposed sanctions on their own program. XYZ could have been half of what the NCAA imposed. They would have won the public argument and come off as morally superior, because at that point the NCAA couldn't have come in and slapped too many more penalties on them without causing problems for itself.

Why they never did this, I don't know.

And you're right about Corbett. Same goes for the second mile - too many high power doners for an investigation to proceed. It's much easier to blame it all on 4 administrators and pretend that there were no other problems with PSU.
 
2013-02-21 06:32:44 PM
Well I see the argument for the $60 million, I live in Pennsylvania and me and a few others thinks the money should stay in PA. The programs in our state is what should get this money since the fine money have been partially funded by the taxpayers. At least they rule on that since why should Pennsylvania residents be paying for another state's program?
 
2013-02-21 07:26:18 PM
Every time the NCAA sanctions PSU the State gets a 100% kickback of all fines? what could possibly go wrong?
 
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