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(Bleeding Cool)   Comic nerds unsure how to react on news that Batwoman has proposed to her secret girlfriend. In other news, Batwoman is gay, has become a ginger, and apparently likes wearing clown makeup   (bleedingcool.com) divider line 58
    More: Interesting, Batwoman, spoilers, Orson Scott Card, J.H. Williams  
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5263 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Feb 2013 at 8:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-21 06:39:17 AM
Become a ginger?  I thought she always was one.
 
2013-02-21 07:08:35 AM

Alphax: Become a ginger?  I thought she always was one.


She always was a redhead when I collected comics, although she was still "Batgirl." And Joker put her in a wheelchair.
 
2013-02-21 07:10:11 AM

Nabb1: Alphax: Become a ginger?  I thought she always was one.

She always was a redhead when I collected comics, although she was still "Batgirl." And Joker put her in a wheelchair.


And was played by Dina Meyer in 'Birds of Prey'.  Yum.
 
2013-02-21 08:13:30 AM
images.fineartamerica.com

Hey, look, it's the gay bandwagon! Jump on quickly, DC!
 
2013-02-21 08:17:54 AM

Nabb1: Alphax: Become a ginger?  I thought she always was one.

She always was a redhead when I collected comics, although she was still "Batgirl." And Joker put her in a wheelchair.


Different character.

This is the original Batwoman, that disappeared sometime in the 60s.

fc07.deviantart.net

And, the current Batwoman is a new character that was a lesbian from the outset and that was always a part of the character. It's not like they took another character from World War 2 and made him gay just to get publicity... again.
 
2013-02-21 08:22:06 AM
weird boner time.
 
2013-02-21 08:23:50 AM
Comic nerds know how to react: it's off to the bunks to reinforce their already skewed conception of female sexuality.
 
2013-02-21 08:33:06 AM
outside observer here.  Wouldn't you want to hid your hair if it were like that due to the small percentage of  people who have it?
 
2013-02-21 08:37:26 AM

thecpt: outside observer here.  Wouldn't you want to hid your hair if it were like that due to the small percentage of  people who have it?


What's odd is, it seems that is actually fake hair but her real hair is the exact same color.

fc09.deviantart.net
 
2013-02-21 08:45:09 AM

Sybarite: thecpt: outside observer here.  Wouldn't you want to hid your hair if it were like that due to the small percentage of  people who have it?

What's odd is, it seems that is actually fake hair but her real hair is the exact same color.

[fc09.deviantart.net image 600x928]


They have excellent hair stylists in Gotham City.
 
2013-02-21 08:47:41 AM
Considering that the whole "bat" thing was to be scary...

This sort of thing (her costume) makes me thing that the bad guys would ask how much for a spanking.
 
2013-02-21 08:47:55 AM

Sybarite: thecpt: outside observer here.  Wouldn't you want to hid your hair if it were like that due to the small percentage of  people who have it?

What's odd is, it seems that is actually fake hair but her real hair is the exact same color.

[fc09.deviantart.net image 600x928]


So the seam in her costume forms the world's largest camel toe? Lovely.
 
2013-02-21 08:55:17 AM
In other news, Subby was cryogenically frozen in 2005 and missed that Batwoman has been a redhead and a lesbian for eight years now.
 
2013-02-21 08:55:42 AM

Smashed Hat: Sybarite: thecpt: outside observer here.  Wouldn't you want to hid your hair if it were like that due to the small percentage of  people who have it?

What's odd is, it seems that is actually fake hair but her real hair is the exact same color.

[fc09.deviantart.net image 600x928]

So the seam in her costume forms the world's largest camel toe? Lovely.


Uh no..that's the bat in a boat.
 
2013-02-21 08:56:52 AM

Sybarite: What's odd is, it seems that is actually fake hair but her real hair is the exact same color.


Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
 
2013-02-21 08:59:32 AM

Nabb1: Alphax: Become a ginger?  I thought she always was one.

She always was a redhead when I collected comics, although she was still "Batgirl." And Joker put her in a wheelchair.


Batgirl = Commissioner Gordon's daughter

Batwoman =

Original - 1956: Kathy Kane, introduced as a love interest for Batman to disprove allegations of homosexuality.  Used a purse with women's products made into gadgets. No real origin story, she just decided to pop a bat suit on and fight bad guys.

Reboot (2006): Kathy Kane, a lesbian. Boo-hoo sob story with mom and sister killed, spent her life training, has a millionaire father that bought her the batsuit and gadgets and they have their own batcave bunker.. aka a Batman copycat story.


Not to be confused with the Huntress, which is Batman and Catwoman's daughter in an alternate universe.
 
2013-02-21 09:08:24 AM

Dr. Whoof: In other news, Subby was cryogenically frozen in 2005 and missed that Batwoman has been a redhead and a lesbian for eight years now.


and we're done here.
 
2013-02-21 09:31:28 AM
J.H. Williams III's art for Batwoman has been some of the best comic art I've ever seen. Some awesome covers during his run.
 
2013-02-21 09:33:16 AM

thecpt: outside observer here.  Wouldn't you want to hid your hair if it were like that due to the small percentage of  people who have it?


In most comic universes, DCU in particular, red hair is almost as common as brown, black and blonde. There aren't that many hair colors in general, and its an easy way to distinguish characters. A bit lazy I think. I can name more DCU redhead characters than I can real life people I know.
 
2013-02-21 09:37:26 AM

imfallen_angel: Considering that the whole "bat" thing was to be scary...

This sort of thing (her costume) makes me thing that the bad guys would ask how much for a spanking.


The costume does something to my thing too.
 
2013-02-21 09:40:21 AM
In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.
 
2013-02-21 09:44:41 AM
but do the drapes match the carpet?
 
2013-02-21 09:50:30 AM

Dr. Whoof: In other news, Subby was cryogenically frozen in 2005 and missed that Batwoman has been a redhead and a lesbian for eight years now.


I don't even read the comics and I've picked that up through this site alone
 
2013-02-21 10:02:59 AM
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-02-21 10:10:31 AM

FirstNationalBastard: [images.fineartamerica.com image 850x566]

Hey, look, it's the gay bandwagon! Jump on quickly, DC!


Funny, you'd think the gay bandwagon would be at least a little more fabulous than that.

/You learn something new every day.
 
2013-02-21 10:31:31 AM

hstein3: Funny, you'd think the gay bandwagon would be at least a little more fabulous than that.

/You learn something new every day.


We've spent the last decade or two learning in the most annoying possible way that in comics most writers are heterosexual, as attempts to make a reasonable, believable gay character with relationships and such without being stupid or offensive have repeatedly fallen flat.

//Wait, her batsuit causes her hair to grow half a foot?  Is she a magic-based hero now and not a tech hero?
 
2013-02-21 10:35:35 AM
cdn.bleedingcool.net

Starring Ann Wilson as Batgirl. She has the chin of a bullfrog.
 
2013-02-21 10:40:21 AM

perigee: [cdn.bleedingcool.net image 600x501]

Starring Ann Wilson as Batgirl. She has the chin of a bullfrog.


Is it just me or does the other girl look.... dead. Or drugged. Or something.
 
2013-02-21 10:41:55 AM

Sybarite: thecpt: outside observer here.  Wouldn't you want to hid your hair if it were like that due to the small percentage of  people who have it?

What's odd is, it seems that is actually fake hair but her real hair is the exact same color.

[fc09.deviantart.net image 600x928]


Could be a wig attached to the bat hood.
Would allow for keeping your own hair covered so the bad guy can't get a hand full of rooted hair.

I guess.
 
2013-02-21 10:47:54 AM

LDM90: In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.


No. Batgirl and Batwoman are two different characters.
 
2013-02-21 11:07:22 AM
I figured Batwoman would be the obvious choice to take a dirt nap in "A Death In the Family"...but then I remembered that she has no real ties to the bat family other than the name and costume she decided to copy-cat.

As for the red-headed thing (fun fact time)...the whole character design is based on a concept worked up by a DC artist for a healed Barbara Gordon (who was still Oracle at the time) thus the red hair. The idea was scrapped, but they later picked up the design for the new "yay diversity" Batwoman. Now...after the reboot...Barbara *is* healed and back to being Batgirl, and essentially meeting up with what she could have looked like in the form of Batwoman.
 
2013-02-21 11:29:21 AM

bbfreak: LDM90: In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.

No. Batgirl and Batwoman are two different characters.


and there have been several different Batgirls.  I don't know if Barbara is still in the chair as Oracle or not.
 
2013-02-21 11:29:22 AM

Virtual Pariah: Could be a wig attached to the bat hood.
Would allow for keeping your own hair covered so the bad guy can't get a hand full of rooted hair.

I guess.


That's exactly right. Also, she was originally blonde, so it helped in throwing off people about her secret identity.

And yes, as previously stated Batgirl != Batwoman.

Lastly, anyone even slightly interested in comics really should read at least the first Batwoman trade. It was great, and had some of the best, craziest covers I've ever seen.

www.gregrucka.com

/hotlinked because I'm lazy
 
2013-02-21 11:35:44 AM

ManateeGag: bbfreak: LDM90: In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.

No. Batgirl and Batwoman are two different characters.

and there have been several different Batgirls.  I don't know if Barbara is still in the chair as Oracle or not.


I think Barb went back to being Batgirl since the New 52 came into being. But she was Oracle for a while before it.
 
2013-02-21 12:00:28 PM

ManateeGag: bbfreak: LDM90: In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.

No. Batgirl and Batwoman are two different characters.

and there have been several different Batgirls.  I don't know if Barbara is still in the chair as Oracle or not.


Nope.

Geoff Johns couldn't masturbate to cripples, so *POOF*, the best thing, character-wise, to ever happen to Barbara Gordon magically disappears.
 
2013-02-21 12:22:53 PM

FirstNationalBastard: ManateeGag: bbfreak: LDM90: In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.

No. Batgirl and Batwoman are two different characters.

and there have been several different Batgirls.  I don't know if Barbara is still in the chair as Oracle or not.

Nope.

Geoff Johns couldn't masturbate to cripples, so *POOF*, the best thing, character-wise, to ever happen to Barbara Gordon magically disappears.


And on top of it, we lost Stephanie Brown, who was a very fun Batgirl. There's no fun in DC anymore.
 
2013-02-21 01:37:47 PM
Is it just me or is the expression on Mags face like she has NO Freakin clue who this woman kissing her is?
 
2013-02-21 01:41:31 PM

MaxTigar: Is it just me or is the expression on Mags face like she has NO Freakin clue who this woman kissing her is?


To me, there's no life at all in that face. It could be a mannequin
 
2013-02-21 02:06:20 PM

FirstNationalBastard: ManateeGag: bbfreak: LDM90: In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.

No. Batgirl and Batwoman are two different characters.

and there have been several different Batgirls.  I don't know if Barbara is still in the chair as Oracle or not.

Nope.

Geoff Johns couldn't masturbate to cripples, so *POOF*, the best thing, character-wise, to ever happen to Barbara Gordon magically disappears.


I haven't kept up, but last time I checked they make reference to the fact that she WAS in a chair, and that her time as Oracle still happened. They just didn't say how she was healed.

Of course, in the DC Universe it struck me as odd that anyone would remain in a wheelchair. They have magic, confirmed and established contact with aliens, and all sorts of gods and godlike beings running around... And many of them are friends with the Batman.

Fixing Kyle's girlfriend is one thing, but a simple damaged spine? You'd think Zatanna could just say "niaga klaw reh tel dna enips s'nodrog arabrab laeh!" and all would be well, or that Doctor Fate could touch her and bring her back to her old self, or that SOMEWHERE in the DC universe there might be a character who has the power to heal, or that STAR Labs could whip up a new spine for her.

It seemed more inexplicable that she remained wheelchair-bound in that world.
 
2013-02-21 02:19:25 PM

imfallen_angel: Nabb1: Alphax: Become a ginger?  I thought she always was one.

She always was a redhead when I collected comics, although she was still "Batgirl." And Joker put her in a wheelchair.

Batgirl = Commissioner Gordon's daughter

Batwoman =

Original - 1956: Kathy Kane, introduced as a love interest for Batman to disprove allegations of homosexuality.  Used a purse with women's products made into gadgets. No real origin story, she just decided to pop a bat suit on and fight bad guys.

Reboot (2006): Kathy Kane, a lesbian. Boo-hoo sob story with mom and sister killed, spent her life training, has a millionaire father that bought her the batsuit and gadgets and they have their own batcave bunker.. aka a Batman copycat story.


Not to be confused with the Huntress, which is Batman and Catwoman's daughter in an alternate universe.


So wait, Hush took place in an alternate universe? Because I seem to remember there being a character called The Huntress helping Batman in that one.
 
2013-02-21 02:28:50 PM

mooseyfate: imfallen_angel: Nabb1: Alphax: Become a ginger?  I thought she always was one.

She always was a redhead when I collected comics, although she was still "Batgirl." And Joker put her in a wheelchair.

Batgirl = Commissioner Gordon's daughter

Batwoman =

Original - 1956: Kathy Kane, introduced as a love interest for Batman to disprove allegations of homosexuality.  Used a purse with women's products made into gadgets. No real origin story, she just decided to pop a bat suit on and fight bad guys.

Reboot (2006): Kathy Kane, a lesbian. Boo-hoo sob story with mom and sister killed, spent her life training, has a millionaire father that bought her the batsuit and gadgets and they have their own batcave bunker.. aka a Batman copycat story.


Not to be confused with the Huntress, which is Batman and Catwoman's daughter in an alternate universe.

So wait, Hush took place in an alternate universe? Because I seem to remember there being a character called The Huntress helping Batman in that one.


That Huntress in the "main" universe isn't Batman's daughter. At least at the time. Who knows now
 
2013-02-21 02:46:27 PM

ZeroCorpse: FirstNationalBastard: ManateeGag: bbfreak: LDM90: In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.

No. Batgirl and Batwoman are two different characters.

and there have been several different Batgirls.  I don't know if Barbara is still in the chair as Oracle or not.

Nope.

Geoff Johns couldn't masturbate to cripples, so *POOF*, the best thing, character-wise, to ever happen to Barbara Gordon magically disappears.

I haven't kept up, but last time I checked they make reference to the fact that she WAS in a chair, and that her time as Oracle still happened. They just didn't say how she was healed.

Of course, in the DC Universe it struck me as odd that anyone would remain in a wheelchair. They have magic, confirmed and established contact with aliens, and all sorts of gods and godlike beings running around... And many of them are friends with the Batman.

Fixing Kyle's girlfriend is one thing, but a simple damaged spine? You'd think Zatanna could just say "niaga klaw reh tel dna enips s'nodrog arabrab laeh!" and all would be well, or that Doctor Fate could touch her and bring her back to her old self, or that SOMEWHERE in the DC universe there might be a character who has the power to heal, or that STAR Labs could whip up a new spine for her.

It seemed more inexplicable that she remained wheelchair-bound in that world.


Seriously.  It's not like Batman ever had his back broke and found a way to heal...
 
2013-02-21 02:46:50 PM

SuperChuck: mooseyfate: imfallen_angel: Not to be confused with the Huntress, which is Batman and Catwoman's daughter in an alternate universe.

So wait, Hush took place in an alternate universe? Because I seem to remember there being a character called The Huntress helping Batman in that one.

That Huntress in the "main" universe isn't Batman's daughter. At least at the time. Who knows now


The New 52 Huntress is Helena Wayne from Earth 2 who now lives on Earth 1. The pre-New 52 Hush Huntress is Helena Bertinelli from Earth 1 but she's no longer in continuity.
 
2013-02-21 02:50:31 PM

Virtual Pariah: Sybarite: thecpt: outside observer here.  Wouldn't you want to hid your hair if it were like that due to the small percentage of  people who have it?

What's odd is, it seems that is actually fake hair but her real hair is the exact same color.

[fc09.deviantart.net image 600x928]

Could be a wig attached to the bat hood.
Would allow for keeping your own hair covered so the bad guy can't get a hand full of rooted hair.

I guess.


It's exactly that. Batman even tells her to cut her hair because it's too long, not knowing it's a wig. Of course she's the only hand-to-hand fighter in all of comicdom that this is apparently a problem for given that almost every other female superhero has long hair.
 
2013-02-21 04:11:22 PM

NeoCortex42: ZeroCorpse: FirstNationalBastard: ManateeGag: bbfreak: LDM90: In other news, there's a Batgirl.

And she's a lesbian because hell, why not.

No. Batgirl and Batwoman are two different characters.

and there have been several different Batgirls.  I don't know if Barbara is still in the chair as Oracle or not.

Nope.

Geoff Johns couldn't masturbate to cripples, so *POOF*, the best thing, character-wise, to ever happen to Barbara Gordon magically disappears.

I haven't kept up, but last time I checked they make reference to the fact that she WAS in a chair, and that her time as Oracle still happened. They just didn't say how she was healed.

Of course, in the DC Universe it struck me as odd that anyone would remain in a wheelchair. They have magic, confirmed and established contact with aliens, and all sorts of gods and godlike beings running around... And many of them are friends with the Batman.

Fixing Kyle's girlfriend is one thing, but a simple damaged spine? You'd think Zatanna could just say "niaga klaw reh tel dna enips s'nodrog arabrab laeh!" and all would be well, or that Doctor Fate could touch her and bring her back to her old self, or that SOMEWHERE in the DC universe there might be a character who has the power to heal, or that STAR Labs could whip up a new spine for her.

It seemed more inexplicable that she remained wheelchair-bound in that world.

Seriously.  It's not like Batman ever had his back broke and found a way to heal...


That PISSED ME OFF
 
2013-02-21 04:50:39 PM

Disposable Rob: SuperChuck: mooseyfate: imfallen_angel: Not to be confused with the Huntress, which is Batman and Catwoman's daughter in an alternate universe.

So wait, Hush took place in an alternate universe? Because I seem to remember there being a character called The Huntress helping Batman in that one.

That Huntress in the "main" universe isn't Batman's daughter. At least at the time. Who knows now

The New 52 Huntress is Helena Wayne from Earth 2 who now lives on Earth 1. The pre-New 52 Hush Huntress is Helena Bertinelli from Earth 1 but she's no longer in continuity.


That questions my answer, thanks!
 
2013-02-21 05:41:02 PM
ZeroCorpse:

Of course, in the DC Universe it struck me as odd that anyone would remain in a wheelchair. They have magic, confirmed and established contact with aliens, and all sorts of gods and godlike beings running around... And many of them are friends with the Batman.

True, but aside from seeming like a gratuitous entry of a handicapped character; Barbara's story was a continuance of The Killing Joke, which was one of the more pivotal stories in the Batman saga.
The unusual nature of her remaining in the wheelchair served as a (chilling) reminder that not everyone who interacts with the Bat comes away unscathed.

Fixing Kyle's girlfriend is one thing, but a simple damaged spine? You'd think Zatanna could just say "niaga klaw reh tel dna enips s'nodrog arabrab laeh!" and all would be well, or that Doctor Fate could touch her and bring her back to her old self, or that SOMEWHERE in the DC universe there might be a character who has the power to heal, or that STAR Labs could whip up a new spine for her.

The problem with magic from a Zatanna or Dr Fate is that it still comes with a cost, and Batman could never ask them without revealing Barbara's identity as Batgirl.  Asking for magical help from other DCU beings (such as Ra's al Ghul ) falls into the "One More Day" trap of wondering what the catch is, or what they might want in return.  Plus Batman is notoriously opposed to using "magic" to solve problems.
More science based solutions also run into the problem of there being some underlying problem with the technology or who was administering it; that could lead to other problems.

It seemed more inexplicable that she remained wheelchair-bound in that world.

I'm not completely disagreeing there.  But even on Earth 1 with all its superheroes, there are plenty of ordinary everyday people with disabilities or other constraints that society as a whole has not fixed.
(Which forms one of the recurring story plots between what separates hero service from hero worship)

Actually I thought at one time that a "One More Day" type of story would have been perfect to write for Barbara Gordon.   Give her the opportunity to be fully healed by magical or other means,  but explore the consequences of such a "miracle" on her friends, family, and relationship with the JLA among others.  Plus explore the question of whether she actually served a greater good as Oracle than she did as Batgirl.   In the end (in my version) she would turn down the instant fix solution as having consequences that would be too negative for everyone else...  But by then Bruce Wayne or Dick Grayson would have stumbled on a newly discovered conventional treatment that would give her a chance to walk again;  leading to  several months of therapy and retraining (sort of a revamp of the KnightFall/KnightsEnd saga), and at the end allowing her the choice to remain as Oracle or take up the mantle again as Batgirl.
(and perhaps introduce a much needed followup confrontation between the Barb "Batgirl" and the Joker for closure).

Ulitimately, I'm in the camp that thinks no more Wheelchair Barbara (or at least no good explanation of how she can be whole again) means:

No Killing Joke (or a reduced impact of that story)
No Hacker Files
No Oracle (or less meaning to her interaction with the JLA, considering most of the other members didn't  really know who Oracle was beyond Batman's vouching for her, and they otherwise trusted her with full access to the Watchtower
Undermining the Batman:Cataclysm story (and several others where she served as something of a "conscience to the king")

Threadjack over,   I'm glad they re-introduced Batwoman to the DCU,  I just would have liked more of an explanation of the diff between her and Batgirl to avoid some of the confusion evidenced in this thread.
 
2013-02-21 07:19:20 PM
Dude, spoilers anyone? I don't get my comics until Saturday. Thanks a lot, asshole.
 
2013-02-21 07:59:48 PM

Seequinn: The problem with magic from a Zatanna or Dr Fate is that it still comes with a cost, and Batman could never ask them without revealing Barbara's identity as Batgirl. Asking for magical help from other DCU beings (such as Ra's al Ghul ) falls into the "One More Day" trap of wondering what the catch is, or what they might want in return. Plus Batman is notoriously opposed to using "magic" to solve problems.
More science based solutions also run into the problem of there being some underlying problem with the technology or who was administering it; that could lead to other problems.


Oh c'mon!

Ping Ping Ping Ping Ping

and she's out of that chair scott free.
 
2013-02-21 08:03:30 PM
Is this necessary? Does it really matter who our superheroes have sex with? Can't they just be people? Isn't that good enough? Smells like politics and pandering and that's not what fantasy is for. GTFO
 
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