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(Joystiq)   PS4 makes a deal with the devil   (massively.joystiq.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, the devils, strategic partner, Diablo, PAX  
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8669 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Feb 2013 at 10:15 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-21 10:20:00 AM  
Isn't that what Sony does?
 
2013-02-21 10:20:27 AM  
Will it be as bad as the PC version?
 
2013-02-21 10:21:20 AM  

Thats_Not_My_Baby: Will it be as bad as the PC version?


Probably.

ALSO CASH SHOP.
 
2013-02-21 10:22:48 AM  
No PS3 or PSN games will work on the new console.  That is a bigger reason not to buy it then a Diablo 3 port.
 
2013-02-21 10:26:07 AM  
Sweet, so now even more people can regret buying Diablo III!
 
2013-02-21 10:29:11 AM  
I'm going to buy the most badass PC if Xbox is always online. The mandatory kinnect is almost enough to push me over but that would do it
 
2013-02-21 10:31:34 AM  

bark_atda_moon: No PS3 or PSN games will work on the new console.  That is a bigger reason not to buy it then a Diablo 3 port.


I've already got a PS3 to play those on, so it's not that big a deal to me. With the change in architectures, it would have been as expensive as hell to add in backwards compatibility. It's not like the old days when you could just reuse the CPU of the old console as the sound chip in the next gen version. They supposedly have a way to stream those older games to the console, and if that works well it might not be a huge showstopper for everyone else.
 
2013-02-21 10:31:49 AM  

Thats_Not_My_Baby: Will it be as bad as the PC version?


The PC version is the console version. All they did was use the PC version as a beta test for consoles. It's why almost everything about the game was simplified.
 
2013-02-21 10:33:25 AM  

Mad_Radhu: I've already got a PS3 to play those on, so it's not that big a deal to me.


It kind of is for me. Sony is not exactly known for the ruggedness  and longevity of their consoles.
 
2013-02-21 10:33:40 AM  
Also, will Destiny be coming to the PS3/360 still, or is that going to be a next-gen only exclusive? Seems pretty stupid to limit your customer base to those that only adopt the new hardware.
 
2013-02-21 10:35:07 AM  

Felgraf: Mad_Radhu: I've already got a PS3 to play those on, so it's not that big a deal to me.

It kind of is for me. Sony is not exactly known for the ruggedness  and longevity of their consoles.


Huh?

www.instructables.com
 
2013-02-21 10:37:02 AM  

Felgraf: Mad_Radhu: I've already got a PS3 to play those on, so it's not that big a deal to me.

It kind of is for me. Sony is not exactly known for the ruggedness  and longevity of their consoles.


Plus the first models were huge.   It would be nice to get rid of that thing.
 
2013-02-21 10:37:22 AM  
crazygamer.co.uk [

PS3's have terrible failure rates too.
 
2013-02-21 10:39:45 AM  

mjohnson71: Felgraf: Mad_Radhu: I've already got a PS3 to play those on, so it's not that big a deal to me.

It kind of is for me. Sony is not exactly known for the ruggedness  and longevity of their consoles.

Huh?

[www.instructables.com image 850x637]


Eh? I'm not sure why you thought I was praising microsoft with that comment. They've had longevity issues too. That said, IF 360 games are playable on the 720, then... that's not as much as an argument, since you'll stillhave the 720 to play 360 games on, wheras you can only play PS3 games for as long as your PS3 survives/you can buy a new one cheaply. And I suspect this is more likely, since (I think?) the 360 doesn't have as odd architecture/proprietary parts as the PS3 does.

Not exactly Microsoft's fault Sony loves to go for weird architecture.

/You want to talk about console/handheld longevity, I would probably refer you to Nintendo products.
 
2013-02-21 10:46:13 AM  

Felgraf: mjohnson71: Felgraf: Mad_Radhu: I've already got a PS3 to play those on, so it's not that big a deal to me.

It kind of is for me. Sony is not exactly known for the ruggedness  and longevity of their consoles.

Huh?

[www.instructables.com image 850x637]

Eh? I'm not sure why you thought I was praising microsoft with that comment. They've had longevity issues too. That said, IF 360 games are playable on the 720, then... that's not as much as an argument, since you'll stillhave the 720 to play 360 games on, wheras you can only play PS3 games for as long as your PS3 survives/you can buy a new one cheaply. And I suspect this is more likely, since (I think?) the 360 doesn't have as odd architecture/proprietary parts as the PS3 does.

Not exactly Microsoft's fault Sony loves to go for weird architecture.

/You want to talk about console/handheld longevity, I would probably refer you to Nintendo products.


I'm not trying to go all fanboy because I don't even own a gaming console.

However I can remember at least a dozen coworkers, friends and relatives with 360's that Red Ring died during the problem years. I only know of one PS3 owner who had one go bad.
 
2013-02-21 10:48:16 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Also, will Destiny be coming to the PS3/360 still, or is that going to be a next-gen only exclusive? Seems pretty stupid to limit your customer base to those that only adopt the new hardware.


it's an MMO, it'll be on any platform activision thinks it'll sell on
 
2013-02-21 10:49:18 AM  

bark_atda_moon: No PS3 or PSN games will work on the new console.  That is a bigger reason not to buy it then a Diablo 3 port.


Um, the whole reason that Sony bought GaiKai, along with the playable demos, seems to be that they are going to make old PS-PS3 games available through streaming along the lines of how PS Plus folks have gotten a large amount of free games through subsription.  It certainly won't be available right away, and it will certainly won't be a full library of PS3 games for some time after that, but I can certainly imagine they would say "fark it, play them all" when it comes to the PS and PS2 games
 
2013-02-21 10:50:00 AM  

Felgraf: Mad_Radhu: I've already got a PS3 to play those on, so it's not that big a deal to me.

It kind of is for me. Sony is not exactly known for the ruggedness  and longevity of their consoles.


You can either buy an extended warranty or just shell out for a new one if the old one dies. It'll probably still be cheaper than if Sony tried to shoehorn the guts of the PS3 into a PS4. Sony JUST stopped making the PS2s this year, so cheapish PS3s should be available for the next five years or so.
 
2013-02-21 10:50:01 AM  

mjohnson71: However I can remember at least a dozen coworkers, friends and relatives with 360's that Red Ring died during the problem years. I only know of one PS3 owner who had one go bad.


Yes, though Microsoft did choose to extend the warranty for all initial systems (which  I don't think they were legally required to) to, I think, three years? But, yeah, there were huge, huge issues there

.As for sony, ask people how their launch PS2's faired. (And how helpful Sony was in replacing them.)

I'm mostly just confused as to why you brought up Microsoft, since I was pointing out that hardware failure was a reason to *like* backwards compatibility (at least for one system back), and why it can be good to have even if you own the previous gen of consoles.
 
2013-02-21 10:51:43 AM  

mokinokaro: [crazygamer.co.uk image 600x341] [

PS3's have terrible failure rates too.


my first 60gb PS3 did the YLOD a week before my first 360 RROD (was funny)

the replacements are still going strong, that said the launch ps3's are all doomed apparently by the ps2 chipset not being able to deal with the heat (or so i heard from like... 2009, so who knows heh)

remember when sony was all "BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE!" with the PS2? man has that blown up in their faces since then, bad long term strategy
 
2013-02-21 10:51:54 AM  

ATRDCI: Um, the whole reason that Sony bought GaiKai, along with the playable demos, seems to be that they are going to make old PS-PS3 games available through streaming along the lines of how PS Plus folks have gotten a large amount of free games through subsription. It certainly won't be available right away, and it will certainly won't be a full library of PS3 games for some time after that, but I can certainly imagine they would say "fark it, play them all" when it comes to the PS and PS2 games


Yeah, but will they let you just download them if you already own the game, or will they make you re-purchase them?

Mad_Radhu: You can either buy an extended warranty or just shell out for a new one if the old one dies. It'll probably still be cheaper than if Sony tried to shoehorn the guts of the PS3 into a PS4. Sony JUST stopped making the PS2s this year, so cheapish PS3s should be available for the next five years or so.


Right, but you'd still have to rebuy the PS3, instead of going "Well, that sucks. Oh well, I can play them on my PS4." Just pointing out why backwards compatibility can be nice. Again, it's kind of Sony's own fault, for insisting on weird architecture like they do.
 
2013-02-21 10:54:00 AM  
Oh, no backwards compatibility but...a cloud storage system?!

Yeah, fark right off Sony.  Fark. Right. Off.
 
2013-02-21 10:58:20 AM  
Yeah, buddy. x86 processors in the PS4 and next XBox. Every game on every platform with no porting required.
 
2013-02-21 11:00:30 AM  

Rwa2play: Oh, no backwards compatibility but...a cloud storage system?!

Yeah, fark right off Sony.  Fark. Right. Off.


That is not cool but I think we all knew this was coming. Sony and Microsoft want places like Game Stop and Gamefly to go away ASAP.
 
2013-02-21 11:02:15 AM  

Rwa2play: Oh, no backwards compatibility but...a cloud storage system?!

Yeah, fark right off Sony.  Fark. Right. Off.


Yep. Im done with consoles after this gen. The only thing good Ive gleamed out of Sony's announcement is that IN THEORY, at least, it won't be as much trouble to port games to the PC.
 
2013-02-21 11:02:18 AM  
I wonder how microsoft and sony will handle Live and PSN connections to their old systems once next gen comes out.

I won't be buying the new ones for at least two years in order to let major hardware issues like RROD be worked out first. Hope that doesn't mean losing Netglix through the xbox.
 
2013-02-21 11:02:37 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-21 11:05:11 AM  

smimmy: [i.imgur.com image 850x363]


Motherfark, that...actually makes sense. Granted, I haven't *played* Diablo 3 yet (I held off), but I have long suspected that, just as the soul-gem shard the Warrior shoved in his forehead at the end of Diablo 1 slowly and ultimately corrupted his soul, so too is Activision slowly poising blizzard, warping their soul and body into a twisted mockery of what it once was.
 
2013-02-21 11:05:46 AM  
*poisoning
 
2013-02-21 11:10:46 AM  

Felgraf: And I suspect this is more likely, since (I think?) the 360 doesn't have as odd architecture/proprietary parts as the PS3 does.


I thought the Xbox was still a little weird, since it uses a triple-core PowerPC cousin of the Cell. Not nearly as weird to deal with as the Cell, but you still have a totally different CPU architecture to deal with, unless it has a HAL that keeps the devs from having to deal with the odd hardware.
 
2013-02-21 11:14:15 AM  

Mad_Radhu: I thought the Xbox was still a little weird, since it uses a triple-core PowerPC cousin of the Cell. Not nearly as weird to deal with as the Cell, but you still have a totally different CPU architecture to deal with, unless it has a HAL that keeps the devs from having to deal with the odd hardware.


The original Xbox, or the 360? I admit I more know of the weirdness with the PS3 and PS2, just due to, well, Sony touting them frequently. I would not be surprised if either had some hardware hinkiness, since they *did* have issues making Xbox games compatible with the 360.
 
2013-02-21 11:16:01 AM  

ATRDCI: bark_atda_moon: No PS3 or PSN games will work on the new console.  That is a bigger reason not to buy it then a Diablo 3 port.

Um, the whole reason that Sony bought GaiKai, along with the playable demos, seems to be that they are going to make old PS-PS3 games available through streaming along the lines of how PS Plus folks have gotten a large amount of free games through subsription.  It certainly won't be available right away, and it will certainly won't be a full library of PS3 games for some time after that, but I can certainly imagine they would say "fark it, play them all" when it comes to the PS and PS2 games


Not to mention that they are not abandoning the PS store, so you will be able to still download things through it.
 
2013-02-21 11:19:23 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Felgraf: And I suspect this is more likely, since (I think?) the 360 doesn't have as odd architecture/proprietary parts as the PS3 does.

I thought the Xbox was still a little weird, since it uses a triple-core PowerPC cousin of the Cell. Not nearly as weird to deal with as the Cell, but you still have a totally different CPU architecture to deal with, unless it has a HAL that keeps the devs from having to deal with the odd hardware.


both were based on the powerpc750 (as was the gamecube and wii u), the way the 360 (and wii u) use the 3-core setup is simply that 2 are dedicated to OS and sound, and one is a in-order dual-threading core with extra cache... when you compare that to what the cell does (an in-order single-threading core that offsets tasks to SPU's which then have to be re-dumped back into the main core) then it's easy to see where the 360's setup most closely resembles the way games run on a pc
 
2013-02-21 11:22:07 AM  

Felgraf: ATRDCI: Um, the whole reason that Sony bought GaiKai, along with the playable demos, seems to be that they are going to make old PS-PS3 games available through streaming along the lines of how PS Plus folks have gotten a large amount of free games through subsription. It certainly won't be available right away, and it will certainly won't be a full library of PS3 games for some time after that, but I can certainly imagine they would say "fark it, play them all" when it comes to the PS and PS2 games

Yeah, but will they let you just download them if you already own the game, or will they make you re-purchase them?


I suppose something like that can be done by connecting your PS3 account with your PS4, but honestly I think its gonna be like Playstation Plus "Pay monthly fee, and every so often we'll give you games for free" sort of thing

/wonder what the over/under should be on the time it takes for the internet to figure out how to take over another person's controller without their permission after that "help me feature" is released
 
2013-02-21 11:24:02 AM  

Malcolm_Sex: I'm going to buy the most badass PC if Xbox is always online. The mandatory kinnect is almost enough to push me over but that would do it


Well, since the PS4 seems to be about the level of a current middle of the road PC, doing so should keep you covered for the next couple of generations
 
2013-02-21 11:25:48 AM  

ATRDCI: I suppose something like that can be done by connecting your PS3 account with your PS4, but honestly I think its gonna be like Playstation Plus "Pay monthly fee, and every so often we'll give you games for free" sort of thing


I am starting to wonder if Sony gave all of those games away for free because they knew they wouldn't have to support PSN games for long...
 
2013-02-21 11:26:59 AM  

mjohnson71: Rwa2play: Oh, no backwards compatibility but...a cloud storage system?!

Yeah, fark right off Sony.  Fark. Right. Off.

That is not cool but I think we all knew this was coming. Sony and Microsoft want places like Game Stop and Gamefly to go away ASAP.


And it's like the conveniently forgot the fiasco with the PSN being down for 2 weeks due to a virus.  Yeah, like THAT won't happen again with this console.

/Again: Fark. Right. Off. Sony.
 
2013-02-21 11:30:53 AM  

bark_atda_moon: ATRDCI: I suppose something like that can be done by connecting your PS3 account with your PS4, but honestly I think its gonna be like Playstation Plus "Pay monthly fee, and every so often we'll give you games for free" sort of thing

I am starting to wonder if Sony gave all of those games away for free because they knew they wouldn't have to support PSN games for long...


Well, I think, and hope, it will be an integration of GaiKai with that rather than replacement, but I suppose that's possible

/itll be interesting to see what the media molecule thing ends up being
 
2013-02-21 11:39:29 AM  

Rwa2play: mjohnson71: Rwa2play: Oh, no backwards compatibility but...a cloud storage system?!

Yeah, fark right off Sony.  Fark. Right. Off.

That is not cool but I think we all knew this was coming. Sony and Microsoft want places like Game Stop and Gamefly to go away ASAP.

And it's like the conveniently forgot the fiasco with the PSN being down for 2 weeks due to a virus.  Yeah, like THAT won't happen again with this console.

/Again: Fark. Right. Off. Sony.


Whomever goes with a 100% internet dependent console is just asking for pain unless the who system is very robust. A similar outage with the PS4 or XBox720 will cripple either company for years.

I still can't shake the feeling we're living 1983 all over again. For some reason the PS4 feels like what I saw as a kid with the Atari 5200.
 
2013-02-21 11:43:53 AM  

ATRDCI: bark_atda_moon: ATRDCI: I suppose something like that can be done by connecting your PS3 account with your PS4, but honestly I think its gonna be like Playstation Plus "Pay monthly fee, and every so often we'll give you games for free" sort of thing

I am starting to wonder if Sony gave all of those games away for free because they knew they wouldn't have to support PSN games for long...

Well, I think, and hope, it will be an integration of GaiKai with that rather than replacement, but I suppose that's possible

/itll be interesting to see what the media molecule thing ends up being


the ghost of ken kutaragi won't leave sony alone, emotion engine and cell were interesting custom architectures but both are dead-ends that drag down 13 years worth of games? not pretty and not much sony can do about it, would be ironic if they abandoned x86 architecture with the ps5
 
2013-02-21 11:49:12 AM  

AdamK: ATRDCI: bark_atda_moon: ATRDCI: I suppose something like that can be done by connecting your PS3 account with your PS4, but honestly I think its gonna be like Playstation Plus "Pay monthly fee, and every so often we'll give you games for free" sort of thing

I am starting to wonder if Sony gave all of those games away for free because they knew they wouldn't have to support PSN games for long...

Well, I think, and hope, it will be an integration of GaiKai with that rather than replacement, but I suppose that's possible

/itll be interesting to see what the media molecule thing ends up being

the ghost of ken kutaragi won't leave sony alone, emotion engine and cell were interesting custom architectures but both are dead-ends that drag down 13 years worth of games? not pretty and not much sony can do about it, would be ironic if they abandoned x86 architecture with the ps5


I don't think they will abandon X86 anytime soon.  It's a clear, and cheap, upgrade path compared to custom chips or power PC.  It seems like so much of the vita and ps4 design was focused around cheap parts with clear paths to the future.  X86 for the consoles, and ARM for the handhelds.
 
2013-02-21 11:55:23 AM  

smimmy: [i.imgur.com image 850x363]


The problem with this is well, there are plenty of complex console games out there.  If anything, diablo III was simplified so that casuals would buy into the game, such as casual WoW fans and the like.
 
2013-02-21 12:02:36 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: ATRDCI: bark_atda_moon: No PS3 or PSN games will work on the new console.  That is a bigger reason not to buy it then a Diablo 3 port.

Um, the whole reason that Sony bought GaiKai, along with the playable demos, seems to be that they are going to make old PS-PS3 games available through streaming along the lines of how PS Plus folks have gotten a large amount of free games through subsription.  It certainly won't be available right away, and it will certainly won't be a full library of PS3 games for some time after that, but I can certainly imagine they would say "fark it, play them all" when it comes to the PS and PS2 games

Not to mention that they are not abandoning the PS store, so you will be able to still download things through it.


Nevermind, I just googled this.  Sony is retarded.
 
2013-02-21 12:09:10 PM  

mjohnson71: Rwa2play: mjohnson71: Rwa2play: Oh, no backwards compatibility but...a cloud storage system?!

Yeah, fark right off Sony.  Fark. Right. Off.

That is not cool but I think we all knew this was coming. Sony and Microsoft want places like Game Stop and Gamefly to go away ASAP.

And it's like the conveniently forgot the fiasco with the PSN being down for 2 weeks due to a virus.  Yeah, like THAT won't happen again with this console.

/Again: Fark. Right. Off. Sony.

Whomever goes with a 100% internet dependent console is just asking for pain unless the who system is very robust. A similar outage with the PS4 or XBox720 will cripple either company for years.

I still can't shake the feeling we're living 1983 all over again. For some reason the PS4 feels like what I saw as a kid with the Atari 5200.


If Nintendo ever got their heads out of you-know-where and introduced this generations' NES, they'd make a killing.
 
2013-02-21 12:09:20 PM  
Haha stupid PS4, I got to be underwhelmed and discard that title months ago, you have to wait until whenever that thing I'd not touch if paid to gets released.
 
2013-02-21 12:20:02 PM  

bark_atda_moon: No PS3 or PSN games will work on the new console.  That is a bigger reason not to buy it then a Diablo 3 port.


Know how many PS2 games I played on my PS3?  Exactly zero. Who cares about backwards compatibility?
 
2013-02-21 12:23:52 PM  
A PS4 thread 18 hours after the launch, ok timely enough I suppose.

As a 360 user, I gotta say I was pretty underwhelmed by the whole thing. No one cares about "sharing", no one cares about streaming games to the Vita (cause nobody's gonna be shelling out an extra $179 or whatever for a 'lulz controller with screen now'). What people care about: does this justify a jump from PS3/360?

Nope, it doesn't.

That game they showed, Killzone slaughter Bonestorm 5 or something, it was good, I mean it looked pretty enough, but I personally think Mass Effect in 2007 looked almost as good. Nothing about this really says next-gen. Oh it's their version of the Kinect? Meh. I don't have a kinect, and I'm not interested in getting one. A video camera capturing my living room with video and audio at all times? Let me laugh harder, no thanks.

I showed a co-worker who's a huge sports guy, and never really plays any video games. He was underwhelmed as well. Said things like "oh... yeah I guess that looks cool". So according to my extremely scientifically accurate sample size of one, I think this is a general reaction.

However, if this new game from Capcom called "Deep Down" is truly gameplay, this looks like pretty rad next-gen:
http://youtu.be/drGkHlrPuOM?t=4m46s

Like serioulsy that's pretty impressive. However I'm not optimistic it'll be the norm.

======================

Also, btw, Sony has confirmed that used games WILL work on PS4. Those were internet rumours, and turned out as true as internet rumours tend to be.

/after 4 years, my 360 died on Saturday
//picked up a new one that day
/these new ones are friggin awesome
//quiet, and built in wifi, sweet!
 
2013-02-21 12:32:35 PM  

sure haven't: A PS4 thread 18 hours after the launch, ok timely enough I suppose.

As a 360 user, I gotta say I was pretty underwhelmed by the whole thing. No one cares about "sharing", no one cares about streaming games to the Vita (cause nobody's gonna be shelling out an extra $179 or whatever for a 'lulz controller with screen now'). What people care about: does this justify a jump from PS3/360?

Nope, it doesn't.

That game they showed, Killzone slaughter Bonestorm 5 or something, it was good, I mean it looked pretty enough, but I personally think Mass Effect in 2007 looked almost as good. Nothing about this really says next-gen. Oh it's their version of the Kinect? Meh. I don't have a kinect, and I'm not interested in getting one. A video camera capturing my living room with video and audio at all times? Let me laugh harder, no thanks.

I showed a co-worker who's a huge sports guy, and never really plays any video games. He was underwhelmed as well. Said things like "oh... yeah I guess that looks cool". So according to my extremely scientifically accurate sample size of one, I think this is a general reaction.

However, if this new game from Capcom called "Deep Down" is truly gameplay, this looks like pretty rad next-gen:
http://youtu.be/drGkHlrPuOM?t=4m46s

Like serioulsy that's pretty impressive. However I'm not optimistic it'll be the norm.

======================

Also, btw, Sony has confirmed that used games WILL work on PS4. Those were internet rumours, and turned out as true as internet rumours tend to be.

/after 4 years, my 360 died on Saturday
//picked up a new one that day
/these new ones are friggin awesome
//quiet, and built in wifi, sweet!


Shocking.  I get that mean that its not likely to cause you to jump from the 360 to the PS4.  However, in the case of your coworker, is it really suprising that someone who doesn't play games isn't excited about a video game console?
 
2013-02-21 12:36:37 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: Shocking. I get that mean that its not likely to cause you to jump from the 360 to the PS4. However, in the case of your coworker, is it really suprising that someone who doesn't play games isn't excited about a video game console?


Well he has a 360 or PS3, but the last game he played was MLB or something in September.
I was just trying to say that someone who is into a bit (me), and an "outsider" are both having the same reaction.

You gotta admit it was pretty lackluster.
 
2013-02-21 12:38:21 PM  
activision finally got around to pulling the choke collar they have on Blizzard and making them shiat out console ports of IP to make mountains of money? the hell you say.
 
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