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(WTOP)   Got a speeding ticket from a speed camera? Here's why you should always show up for court (and plead guilty)   (wtop.com) divider line 43
    More: Interesting, burden of proof, Eastern Shore, Silver Spring  
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30751 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Feb 2013 at 12:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-02-20 09:40:22 PM  
11 votes:
There are better ways to challenge speed cameras:

www.thenewspaper.com
2013-02-20 09:43:32 PM  
6 votes:
Elmwood really is amusing.

Bankrupt. Broke as a joke, and they just got these lovely new cruisers. Challengers and chargers. In an area where the speed limit is 25 or 15 everywhere. Automated plate readers too. They just sit there and pull people over for any and everything. They pulled me over one night for having a suspended license. I didn't KNOW I had a suspended license, but they were more than happy to help me figure out the state paperwork error that caused their system to flag me as suspended. More than happy to help. In court. Over 6 months, stretched out as long as they could, with $400 in court fees attached.

Court meets in a VERY hot little room with few seats, in the back of the municipal building with no parking, at 5:30 PM. If you are contesting a ticket it will take at least 3 visits. Due to the INSANE number of cases, traffic tickets are usually gotten to around 7 to 7:30 PM. You will not be admitted if you arrive late, even if you are last on the docket.

No translators available. No children allowed.

Yeah, they've got it figured out. Make it impossible or as uncomfortable as possible to use the system as you have the rights to. Get everyone to plea out, take a "No points" offense with a $200 fine and $200 court costs. It gets you in and out in 30 minutes.

I hope they lose EVERY DIME they have made in that shiat town on the lawsuits that are coming down on them.

/might be slightly bitter.
2013-02-20 11:37:52 PM  
5 votes:
And just cause I love this picture so much:

In Germany they need both the license plate and a picture of the driver to give an automated ticket. The computer automatically blurs out the passengers as a privacy matter. Some genius has a British Audi in Germany and thus the driver gets blurred out instead of the passenger. So the German police got a bunch of picture like the following:

cache.gizmodo.com

Story on Gizmodo
2013-02-20 10:17:02 PM  
4 votes:

snuff3r: The cameras are nothing more than a tool to catch you as you cross that line.Cameras exist, will always exist and will always pick people up for crossing that line.


I just see it as a money grab personally because of how it is administered and enforced.

If you're speeding, you get a ticket. In Elmwood, you get a fine. It's no points on your license, and its 2 or 3x what the ticket would cost if you were actually pulled over by a cop. It costs money above that if you wish to question it.

The money brought in, unlike with a regular ticket, is shared between Elmwood and the company in Maryland that administers the cameras. The state doesn't get a cut, nor does the county.

If it was about safety, you'd see an officer there.
2013-02-20 09:28:19 PM  
4 votes:

snuff3r: Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.


Yeah... no.

The City of Elmwood in Cincinnati has cameras that were issuing "Pay to argue this" citations for 27 in a 25.

In a commercial district. Not a residential area.

A bankrupt little cesspool netted 1.5 MILLION in $200 automated fines in 6 months.

Oh, and they may have had a little problem with database corruption as well.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/Hundreds-of-spee di ng-tickets-thrown-out-in-Elmwood-Place/-/13550662/17758452/-/hiihfdz/- /index.html

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130109/NEWS01/301090172/Speed-c am era-take-1-5-million

No non-corrupt cop is going to pull you over for 27 in a 25 unless you're begging for it. The system was not designed for "yes you were speeding, no you were not" binary enforcement. Taking the humans out of the loop has made it crazy.
2013-02-21 12:36:52 AM  
3 votes:
My biggest problem with red light cameras and speed cameras is that an outside corporation is getting a commission from all the tickets.  There has already been a great deal of evidence pointing to the sad fact that red light cameras have been calibrated to ticket drivers that were not in any danger of running red lights.  I personally feel that all speed and red light cameras should be taken down and we return to the days where only cops, not machines, could give you tickets.

My biggest problem with things like traffic lights, speed limits that are seen as absolute limits (like in school zones), and even having to stop for a school bus when it's loading or unloading is that those things are designed to remove complete trust in the driver to make the right choice.  For example, I come to a traffic light at a four way intersection.  It's 10:35 am on a Wednesday.  Most people are at work or in school.  I can see in a straight line in both directions.  The light is red.  Now, if I can tell that there are no cars in sight, I as the driver should have the right to say "fark this red light, no one is coming."  and drive on through. However, the law says that I am not able to make that decision and if a camera is on that traffic light, then I am to be fined and the reasoning of "No one was coming." isn't allowed.

Same with school buses.  Where I live there are two apartment complexes side by side.  Across the street is an empty field.  More than once I have been caught behind two school buses. The first will stop, pick up kids.  Once it's done, the second school bus will drive up 15 feet to where the first one was, and pick up kids.  So I'm stuck behind two school buses picking up kids and I can't drive around them, even though all the kids being picked up live in the apartment complex on the side of the road with the school bus and with the other side of the road being an empty field, no kids are going to come running out of that field and across the street.  But, still, as the driver of a car, I am forbidden from using logic to determine that no kids are in danger if I drive around those two school buses.  And let's look at the school zones.  Where I live the school zones activate an hour before school lets out and lasts up to an hour after school lets out.  Now, as a driver I should be able to say "School let's out a 3:30, it's 2:59, no kids are in danger." and continue at the non-school zone speed.  However, the law is written to prevent me from allowing to make that choice.  Instead if I do that I get a rather large ticket for running a school zone.

I would love to see the lawmakers review our traffic code and put some of the trust back to the drivers instead of a blanket "You must do this all the time no matter what" approach, which is what we have now.  And making automated ticketing machines illegal would be a good step to that trust.

/end rant
2013-02-21 12:36:17 AM  
3 votes:
But driving's a privilege and not a right, right folks? Nevermind that you rely on driving to go to work, much less go to the store or to the doctor.

Nope, it's a privilege and the state is happy to charge you a fee to reinstate an erroneously suspended license.
2013-02-20 11:28:38 PM  
3 votes:

Shadow Blasko: 30 seconds and a gas powered angle grinder, but (and get this) these units allegedly have vibration detectors which start video and audio recording (transmitted wirelessly), and send out a distress call if the levels are breached.


The ones here have smoke detectors and heat detectors.  Some of the ones in the UK now stream a video feed of the other cameras back someplace else because they get broken so often.

If you don't like speed cameras, remind your local homeless population that there are often $6,000 cameras in them.
2013-02-20 09:21:48 PM  
3 votes:
TFA: "The trial is weighted against you. If the police officer says it's calibrated properly, then that's enough preponderance of the evidence for the judge. He didn't show me any evidence it was calibrated correctly," says Williams."

No, the countless certification and testing procedures are weighted against you. Governments spend a LOT of money ensuring a super low error rate for speed cameras and they're tested regularly for compliance. The judge knows this. Unless you have evidence otherwise you're not going to win your case. If you were serious about thinking you had a chance to beat the ticket on these grounds then you would have done your research and put in a GIPA/FOI request for test/compliance data on the camera in question.

Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.
2013-02-21 01:56:22 AM  
2 votes:
This whole speed camera business isn't going to get any better; it's only going to get much, much worse as technology and camera resolution improves, now that municipalities have a taste of the enormous profits that screwing over the little people on an industrial scale brings. Remember when only blacks were treated this way? Bend over, middle class, it's going to get worse. The first big step will be when cities start owning their systems, instead of paying an Australian company to set up on their land, and then being forced to pay back everything when they get cracked down; by having their own, they'll maximize profits.

Speed laws will keep getting more draconian and disconnected from reality while revenue cameras will start popping up in more places. Traffic courts have already been as thin-stretched as possible and only held once a week in an out of the way location for decades, that sure won't change.

With modern safety standards, we could have the equivalent safety of 1960 vehicles while we all drove 100 mph, despite increased congestion, if we paid attention. (Remember, the greatest generation drove 75-85 back before the oil embargo, not the 55 the boomers were forced down to.) We inherited most of our farked up speed laws and insurance policies from the national 55 limit, not from anything scientific, when the only important metric is reckless driving.

/Same thing applies to driving while texting or chatting - it usually leads to reckless driving, so why do we need another law?
2013-02-21 01:02:29 AM  
2 votes:
Exceedingly long, tangentially-related CSB,

Because people are sharing their suspended license stories, I'll share mine.  On my 21st birthday, I had a date.  It was the first one I'd had in a while, so I was...  excited.  I got off work, showered, and went to pick up the lovely lass.  Now, my birthday is on the 1st of the month, and in all of the excitement I forgot to renew the plates on my car.  On my way, I was pulled over because the sticker on my car had expired.  I realized my error and admitted to my mistake, telling the officer my story and he went back to his car to run my information.  After what seemed to be an inordinately long time, the officer returned to my door and asked me to step out of the car.  I then started to get nervous.  He told me that in addition to my plates being expired, my license had been suspended because of unpaid parking tickets.  The previous year I'd moved in with my previous girlfriend and lived in a house where there was no parking anywhere nearby except on the street, which was a in a no parking zone from 3-7 AM, and was that way everywhere in a mile radius.  Every morning I woke up to a $7 ticket, which I would collect and pay at the end of the month.  Apparently I'd missed a few of them, and they suspended my license, which I would have known had I properly updated my address with the secretary of state.  Admittedly, I didn't.

I was threatened with being put in jail unless I paid a fine on-site.  $100, which I happened to have on me because I was going on my fancy date.  They also towed and impounded my car.  I had to call my date on my awesome mid-90s Nextel phone and tell her I'd have to walk to pick her up.  It was hilarious to her and we went out to have a nice time (with her driving) courtesy of my Discover card, which was problematic, because a lot of places didn't take Discover.  After the date, I got a bj and we agreed to meet again, but she didn't return my calls.  Can't say that I blame her, as I was as big a loser as I've ever been at that point in my life.  Anyway, over the next couple of weeks I filled out all of the paperwork and paid all of the fines and got my license reinstated and my car out of impound.

Fast-forward 6 years, and I'm now happily married to another woman, with a baby on the way.  The cops at work ask to speak to me privately and tell me that I have a warrant out for my arrest for failure to appear on a driving on a suspended license charge from 6 years ago.  They give me 2 hours to get things in order, but they're going to take me into custody.  So I have to get a lawyer, call my wife and tell her I'm going to jail, and turn myself into the cops.  I spent 4 hours in jail where I watched a woman get beaten up for annoying the jail cops by asking repeatedly at the top of her lungs why she what she was being charged with.  My heavily pregnant wife was eventually allowed to bail me out, and I had to pay a lawyer about a grand to get it all straightened out over the course of the following month.  That was really awesome.
2013-02-21 12:41:55 AM  
2 votes:
So, shut the f*ck up, say you did it, give us money faster and you get a discount because f*ck "traffic safety" and laws and actual, useful court proceedings.  Why don't they just put up a f*cking tool booth at random with a gate and a basket to throw the money in while a dog sniffs your trunk?
2013-02-21 12:39:23 AM  
2 votes:
Step 1, file for a discovery request

If nothing is received after 30 days

Step 2, trial by declaration; be sure to mention the lack of response to the discovery request.

Less is more, opinion means jack.

If you lose your trial of declaration, you can go to trial and have all the information to fight.
2013-02-21 12:29:24 AM  
2 votes:
Photo enforcement is unconstitutional. Don't wimp out just because you value being able to do other things with your life than fight that battle.
2013-02-21 12:28:31 AM  
2 votes:

Snotnose: Got one of these a year ago, found a lawyer who charges $100 and if she can't get the ticket dismissed you get a full refund.  She got it dismissed.

Here in San Diego those tix are close to $500 ($483 if I remember correctly).


And, considering the ridiculous state budget cuts to California courts, no judge in their right mind would reduce a fine for someone who pleads guilty just to be nice like the Maryland judge in TFA.
2013-02-21 12:18:38 AM  
2 votes:
Speed cameras free up LEOs for nore important things like tasering epilepsy victims and shooting family pets.
2013-02-21 12:09:39 AM  
2 votes:
Or you know keep it to less than 5 over. Driven over 100,000 miles lat two years, never even pulled over. Speeding as a whole doesn't make sense because of diminishing returns and all.

Major Debbie Downer.
2013-02-20 10:56:25 PM  
2 votes:

L.D. Ablo: Shadow Blasko: L.D. Ablo: There are better ways to challenge speed cameras:

[www.thenewspaper.com image 190x145]

Good luck getting to Elmwood's. They bought the best.

[media2.wcpo.com image 320x240]

Give me five minutes and a Sawzall.


30 seconds and a gas powered angle grinder, but (and get this) these units allegedly have vibration detectors which start video and audio recording (transmitted wirelessly), and send out a distress call if the levels are breached.

I dunno if I believe that, but I would not put it past them.
2013-02-20 10:45:15 PM  
2 votes:

Shadow Blasko: L.D. Ablo: There are better ways to challenge speed cameras:

[www.thenewspaper.com image 190x145]

Good luck getting to Elmwood's. They bought the best.

[media2.wcpo.com image 320x240]


Give me five minutes and a Sawzall.
2013-02-22 12:04:25 AM  
1 votes:
I've had my fair share of tickets in my life, some warranted, some not. I have no tickets on my record. Why?

Subpoena the officer. I have yet to have an officer show up. Case dismissed.
2013-02-21 03:47:23 PM  
1 votes:
Nicest PG County judge I've ever heard of.............

/howard county cops suck
2013-02-21 11:14:23 AM  
1 votes:
The cams are bad in MD, some places change the speed limit and cam up when they're having a festival or something touristy in the area.
Can we stop pretending these are for safety yet?
money money money
and the roads are still crap
2013-02-21 10:45:50 AM  
1 votes:
CSB:

A friend's father likes to tell the story of how he won a speeding ticket then got harassed by the local cops until a judge did something about it.

He was given a speeding ticket - something like 79mph, so it was more than a speeding ticket, it was reckless driving too

It was night, raining heavily, he drove a POS pickup truck with 4 cylinders, going up hill

Long story short, he got his hands on an archived copy of Car and Driver discussing acceleration and general performance of his specific car, got a certified letter from Good Year discussing the performance of the tires in wet conditions, did research on the type of radar gun etc.  Basically proved that his truck would have been totally out of control/in a ditch if he was driving that fast in those conditions.

The cop had used his radar gun inside the patrol car, window up, with rain on the window, which distorted the beam and gave a false reading.  He was able to prove this.

He had graphs, charts, etc.

Apparently the cop had like 5 other people in that court room from that night and the judge asked all 5 if it was raining when they got pulled over, they all said "yes," and the judge not only threw the tickets out, but he chewed out the cop too.

So fast forward a week or so, and he gets a parking ticket - failure to park straight within a parking space.  He was not outside the lines, just ever so slightly crooked, but within the space.

Weeks later he then gets another parking ticket - parking more than 18" from the curb - He had parked in a space that was curved, so the front and back of his car were only a couple of inches from the curb, but the middle of his truck was more than 18" from the curve.  Apparently you are supposed to bend your car in that parking space.

He then got pulled over for having too dark of tint on his windows (the windows have never been tinted), the cop then told him that his windows were fine, and that he was mistaken, but he smelled marijuana and alcohol on his breath, so they did a lengthy field sobriety test, called a K-9 unit out to search his truck, which took over a hour to get there, they pulled everything out of his truck, they opened the hood and searched in there, they went to town with it.  Wasted like 3+ hours of his time.  He was cuffed and stuffed into the back of the patrol car and left without AC - It was like 90+ degrees out so he baked for the hour or so he was in custody.

When they finally let him go, they left him with all of his shiat on the side of the road, which took him like an hour to put everything back.  About 40 minutes goes by as he is all alone putting his stuff back in and a new cop shows up and tickets him for impeding traffic and littering.  In the process of them searching his truck a few papers had blown a half a block down the street.

So he goes to court for the first charge and brings all the other tickets with him.  At this point he has lawyered up and him and the lawyer chronicle to the judge the various harassment he has encountered.  Apparently in the days that followed after he got the first speeding ticket, the judge started throwing out a ton of tickets because all the cops had been using their radar guns from inside their patrol cars with the windows up and in the rain.  So collectively, a few in the department systematically started harassing the hell out of him.

They rescheduled for a few weeks later and the judge interviewed every cop involved in the harassment, he chewed them the hell out, and threw out all tickets.  The cops were suspended for a while, none were fired, the police department/city was sued, my friends father won a few bucks and that is that.
2013-02-21 09:46:12 AM  
1 votes:
The problem with this, and traffic tickets in general, is that there is SUPPOSED to be a judge that is IMPARTIAL to hear your case.

In reality, this is practically never the case though, and the "judge" operates under the unconstitutional assumption that you are guilty before your case is even heard.

Traffic tickets are one of the only times where it is widely known that you are guilty until proven innocent.

COMPLETELY unconstitutional.
2013-02-21 09:44:24 AM  
1 votes:
Everything I read here from

- the entitled snowflakes who become indignant constittuional scholars even though at the core of it they are clearly guilty
- the court reporter who tells us that cases are tossed if the driver is not the owner
- the indiscriminate way in which judges reduce sentences for 'an explanation'
- the lawyers who promise win-or-free dismissals

make the entire US traffic enforcement system an expensive joke.

here in the UK, it works like this:

if your car is detected to have been speeding, you get a fine in the mail.  you then pay the fine.  if your friend was driving the car, you chase your friend down for the money.

no effing rocket science, and check out statistics of US vs UK accident rates / road deaths if you think they may be on to something here.

FARK people who bring lawyers to traffic court even though they known darn well they are fundamentally guilty of the infraction.
2013-02-21 09:30:01 AM  
1 votes:
Traffic court clerk here......

We have photo enforcement in our jurisdiction. The speeding tickets are issued by an officer who is monitoring the equipment, live, in the van which is moved from location to location. The equipment is generally set to only take the photo when the vehicle is clocked at 11mph over the speed limit. Occasionally, they'll set the threshold at 10 over. State law says no permanent installations of photo radar. The only differences between the photo radar cites and the others are the officer doesn't turn on the lights to chase you down to hand you the ticket & the fact that the assumption is that the registered owner is the driver. The registered owner is informed of the citation by mail at the address on the vehicle registration. If the owner is not the driver, they only have to complete a form & send in a copy of their photo id to have the case dismissed. Extremely simple process & everything goes perfectly most of the time. However, you have idiots who think they bear no responsibility to keep their addresses current with the DMV. They are the ones who get on discussion boards like this and try to blame their inevitable suspension for FTA on everyone but themselves. "I filed a change of address with the post office." "I was waiting for the registration renewal to change my address." Stupid excuses. You move, you change your address with DMV on both your license and any cars you own.

Photo red light enforcement is more automated. An officer reviews the photographic & video evidence and issues the cite based on that. Video is relatively new to the process here.  Many people don't realize they can go online & watch themselves violate the law. I laugh every time someone contacts me to change a not guilty plea to no contest because they looked at the video and decided they don't want to embarrass themselves in front of a courtroom full of officers and other defendants.

Bottom line....if you drive in an area with photo enforcement, be extra careful about updating DMV with any and all changes of address. Make sure both your operator's license & vehicle registrations are updated. Don't ignore any correspondence because it looks like it may just be your city water bill or tax bill & you pay online so why bother opening it. It very well could be your photo enforcement ticket. And, for fark's sake, if you get a notice from DMV of suspension, don't wait until the day before your suspension to try to set things straight. Judges will generally set aside default judgments if you can demonstrate that you did not receive the cite in the mail (even due to your own negligence with updating your address). However, nothing in government works as fast as you feel it should. DMV is a separate agency and it's going to take several days for them to remove the suspension after you've come to whine to the judge about how unfair it all is.
2013-02-21 09:06:24 AM  
1 votes:

snuff3r: TFA: "The trial is weighted against you. If the police officer says it's calibrated properly, then that's enough preponderance of the evidence for the judge. He didn't show me any evidence it was calibrated correctly," says Williams."

No, the countless certification and testing procedures are weighted against you. Governments spend a LOT of money ensuring a super low error rate for speed cameras and they're tested regularly for compliance. The judge knows this. Unless you have evidence otherwise you're not going to win your case. If you were serious about thinking you had a chance to beat the ticket on these grounds then you would have done your research and put in a GIPA/FOI request for test/compliance data on the camera in question.

Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.


Actually, I'd rather do it my way, thanks. It's always the "STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE!" Liberals that fume when we have the audacity to question governmental interference, when it gets in the way of my money not getting to your bike lane/mass transit/give pandas boners/. Revenue stream.

Here's what you do. A lawyer. Every. Single. Time. You force the cop to be there or by federal law, without being able to face your accuser, you get it dropped. Leave the ego at home so the cop forgets you. I got. 91 in a 60 once, but I was silent and took his anger and insults on the chin...got it dropped a month later.

/8 tickets in 6 years, clean record.
//YOU stop breaking the law by causing road rage with your passive aggressive left lane driving.
2013-02-21 08:37:45 AM  
1 votes:
Only two tickets in my life, both during a "Safety month" (after the city's budget was out and in trouble...imagine the coincidence).

Both were crap but in court, I wasn't prepared for the crap they did... they repeat the questions over and over, twist everything around, do not let you present any notes or details that you have, and thanks to spending a lot of my life being accused of crap I have a natural reflex to be nervous when accused of stuff that I didn't do.

Lost both times because the judge's belief was that my explanation had a flaw (according to them, thanks to the drilling and twisting of anything I said)... so I was pretty much guilty and had to prove that I was innocent... Going against the crown/prosecutor is one thing, but having the judge on their side instead of unbiased... people don't stand a chance.

The second one, what really messed with me was that the guy right before me had a near identical story... I felt that I was trying to use his story instead of my own and they (judge and crown) really made it feel like it.

Should have gone with a lawyer, but they cost more than the ticket does.

Funny thing... how over 25 years of driving no ticket... 2 in one month, and since then( this is many years ago now), nothing again...

Yeah I'm still pissed about it.
2013-02-21 05:08:37 AM  
1 votes:
Only authoritarian douche bags support automated enforcement of the law. The world will have some danger in it and endlessly monitoring citizens isn't going to change that, but what it will do is make people hate government and is a slippery slope to a less free society.
2013-02-21 05:04:24 AM  
1 votes:

mikefinch: Its not binary. The camera has no discretion and the cop does. If you were breaking the law the camera gives you a ticket. 100% of the time. With a cop they get to decide if that ticket is really justified. I suppose it is binary, but one of those has two operations and that makes it allot more than "on/off". 

Just because you broke the law doesnt mean you deserve to be punished. Discretion discretion discretion.


Exactly.  Hence the old, "Listen, I could give you a speeding ticket for 66 in a 45, which would be a $250 fine, plus 6 points on your license, and a jump in your insurance premium, but instead here's a $50 ticket for "Failure to obey a traffic control device".  Do us both a favor, and just pay the $50.  I'll be annoyed if you make me come to court."

Enforcement of safety laws shouldn't be binary, because the definition of safe/unsafe behavior isn't binary.  That's just common sense.

mikefinch: Where i come from allot of people contest speeding tickets because if the cop doesn't show its automatically tossed out. You just have to show up. If the cop is there you just plead guilty and pay. Rescheduling would waste so many peoples time and money. The cop and the judge and court recorder together likely make more in half an hour than your ticket is even worth.


This happened to me on one of the very few times I've ever stopped for a cop on my sport bike.  I could have easily gotten away, but I wasn't being a hooligan or anything, just in a little bit of a rush, so I figured I'd pull over and let the guy feel like he was in control.  I thought he'd appreciate it, since most of the riders in the area would have just twisted the throttle and flipped him off.  Dude writes me over $1000 in tickets, including reckless driving.  I was doing maybe 85 in a 65.

Court date was the day before Thanksgiving.  No show by the cop on about 6 cases, including mine, all of which were an excessive number of tickets written for a single infraction.  The judge was seriously pissed that the trooper wasted his time, and told the entire courtroom so.
2013-02-21 03:48:48 AM  
1 votes:

snuff3r: Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.


Whoa, put the kool-aid down for a minute.

I recently just got a parking ticket in the mail.  Funny thing - I ALWAYS pay for parking and thank god I pay for it with a credit card - so I pull up my credit card statement online and sure enough, on the date in question, I paid for an hours worth.   Sent in the statement information proving that I paid, gave them the last 4 digits of my card and 3 days later they e-mail me back saying "Sorry, the ticket has been cancelled".

Now - let's consider that if they can make a mistake with one service they can make mistakes with another. Never assume your guilty because they told you so - take the time to examine the particulars and seek out legal counsel - cops are experts in their field - you are not - find one and get an opinion and if THEY say pay the ticket, then by all means - go ahead and do just that.
2013-02-21 02:16:32 AM  
1 votes:
When am given the position of Exalted Leader and Grand Poobah, every municipal leader that ever approved a traffic light camera or speeding camera will be drug from their homes and their lifeless bodies will be left hanging from the devices as a reminder to any that would follow.

Totally serious. You can tell I mean it because I said 'totally'.

Hoisted by their own retard!
2013-02-21 01:19:14 AM  
1 votes:

snuff3r: Shadow Blasko: No non-corrupt cop is going to pull you over for 27 in a 25 unless you're begging for it. The system was not designed for "yes you were speeding, no you were not" binary enforcement. Taking the humans out of the loop has made it crazy.

But it is that binary. People seem to think it's not and that's where you start hearing bleating from the sidelines about "cameras are nothing more than revenue machines, screwing us all over", etc. Just as it's binary that a cop can exercise discretion - will book you, won't book you. 0 or 1.

Legislation gives authority to bureaucrats to create a clear line in the sand. That line is in the form of a speed limit. Many systems exist that allow the bureaucrat to create this limit - road condition testing, fatality statistics, etc etc etc. Once that line is created the only choice that exists is whether you cross that line or not. There's no leeway outside of that. The cameras are nothing more than a tool to catch you as you cross that line.Cameras exist, will always exist and will always pick people up for crossing that line.

That aside, I'm not arguing that cameras can be wrong or don't have problems. No system is perfect. The story you've linked is a prime example of where the system has been questioned and a question of error was backed up with evidence.

Personally, i farking hate cameras. I can't see how 1-2 kph over the limit is worth the efforts of a ticket, but meh. As someone who spends 99% of road time on a sportsbike i often test the boundaries. And when get caught ill take it like a man.


A bit off topic, but something I read in your profile made me curious. Not meaning to be nasty, but there's really no other way to ask this.

1) "I'm a militant atheist"

2) "I am a parent who's lost a child, Hannah. I love her and miss her everyday. She was a redhead just like her father and her big brother. I'm thinking of you always, baby girl.

Er..... who are you talking to? She's gone. Nothing's there (per your first point). Do you also talk to dust on the ground?
2013-02-21 01:18:45 AM  
1 votes:

jaylectricity: snuff3r: Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.

Or let's get real about the speed limits. Go five mph below the limit so that when your car accidentally goes a little faster you are still under the limit.

People assume that if the limit is 40 you should drive 40. That's just not true. The absolute limit is 40, you should drive at 35 and if you go down a hill and it creeps up to 39 you're still safe.


That kind of thinking leads to drivers watching their speedometer instead of watching the road and consequently getting into MORE accidents. But at least they're not speeding, right?
2013-02-21 12:44:10 AM  
1 votes:

zedster: In Germany they need both the license plate and a picture of the driver to give an automated ticket. The computer automatically blurs out the passengers as a privacy matter. Some genius has a British Audi in Germany and thus the driver gets blurred out instead of the passenger. So the German police got a bunch of picture like the following:

[cache.gizmodo.com image 410x231]


What's crazy is that given access to the full-sized originals, they could almost certainly have restored the driver's face, especially if they had access to the algorithm that did the pathetic "blur".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil
http://www.andrewt.net/blog/undo-the-twirl/

Whichever idiot made the "privacy" software should be fired. If you want privacy, you replace that section of the image with a solid color. (And make damned sure your file type doesn't provide for undo, cached thumbnails, etc. that might contain the original, uncensored image.)
2013-02-21 12:43:20 AM  
1 votes:

Fark Rye For Many Whores: Meanwhile, in the sidebar

300 call hotline in gynecologist recording probe

Fifty-four-year-old Dr. Nikita Levy was found dead in his Towson home on Monday.


media-1.web.britannica.com

Nikita?
2013-02-21 12:36:29 AM  
1 votes:

Fark Rye For Many Whores: Meanwhile, in the sidebar

300 call hotline in gynecologist recording probe

Fifty-four-year-old Dr. Nikita Levy was found dead in his Towson home on Monday.


www.mels-place.com
2013-02-21 12:33:37 AM  
1 votes:
My wife had one rescinded in New Mexico because the judge lives opposite where the speed trap car was set that day and could see from his window that the construction speed limit sign had blown down because of the wind. Then, they day after the court case, the police just happened to have a cop car sitting outside my driveway and ticket me for not signalling when reversing out of my driveway. I went to court and got that chucked too.
2013-02-21 12:16:42 AM  
1 votes:

snuff3r: Governments spend a LOT of money ensuring a super low error rate for speed cameras


Have to spend money to make money.
2013-02-21 12:14:51 AM  
1 votes:

Philbb: You're the first person, other than me, that I know of who has had their license suspended due to an error. Although I had it happen twice* on two different occasions for two completely different reasons. I went to court both times and, other than regular license fees, I had no trouble getting things taken care of. I'm sorry to hear that it took you so long and cost so much.


It has actually happened to me twice.

First one was for the one and only speeding ticket I have had in 15 years. I contested it, the officer rescheduled twice on the hearing, and on the third reschedule I was out of town, so I just went ahead and went into the clerks office and paid the ticket on the due date.

A "failure to appear" bench warrant/suspension was issued before the payment posted to the state accounting department, and my license was revoked, then put into Ohio's new "Revoked/failure to reinstate" status.

18 months later I was pulled over when a state trooper who ran my plates and the RO came back as "Revoked/Failure to reinstate".

I took my paperwork with me to court and everything was dismissed, but I still had to pay the $20 reinstatement fee.

Reinstatement is a joke as well. There was (at the time) ONE office in all of southwestern Ohio that took care of that, and they were open 4 days a week during business hours only.

The Elmwood situation was because of "account closing fees" on my child support. There were $250 in fees on my paid off child support account, and because they had not been paid in 6 months (I didn't even know about them, they were due to an automated fee being applied erroneously to my child support account for a year after my daughter turned 18, because of paperwork my ex didn't submit) my license was revoked.

I was living in Kentucky at the time so I was not notified of the revocation. I settled with the state, but didn't know that, once again, my license went from revoked status to "failure to reinstate".

That was in October. I just got the ticket settled in Elmwood on Valentines Day. Cost me over $300.

Neither time did I actually break any laws when I was pulled over, just state paperwork madness.

Ohio seems to REALLY like that new $20 reinstatement fee, so they will revoke your license for just about anything these days, and it is YOUR responsibility to fix it, not theirs.

/On the first ticket, I was looking at the possibility of 6mos in jail and a $5000 fine. Thank GOD I still had my paperwork from when I paid the ticket.
2013-02-20 11:20:33 PM  
1 votes:

snuff3r: Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.


Or let's get real about the speed limits. Go five mph below the limit so that when your car accidentally goes a little faster you are still under the limit.

People assume that if the limit is 40 you should drive 40. That's just not true. The absolute limit is 40, you should drive at 35 and if you go down a hill and it creeps up to 39 you're still safe.
2013-02-20 10:01:26 PM  
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: L.D. Ablo: There are better ways to challenge speed cameras:

[www.thenewspaper.com image 190x145]

Good luck getting to Elmwood's. They bought the best.

[media2.wcpo.com image 320x240]


Use a lasso?  Fill water balloons with paint & chuck 'em?  Train a monkey to disable 'em?  Chain saw?

I've got it!  Hook it up to your truck and just drive away with it.
2013-02-20 09:21:09 PM  
1 votes:
Got one of these a year ago, found a lawyer who charges $100 and if she can't get the ticket dismissed you get a full refund.  She got it dismissed.

Here in San Diego those tix are close to $500 ($483 if I remember correctly).
 
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