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(WTOP)   Got a speeding ticket from a speed camera? Here's why you should always show up for court (and plead guilty)   (wtop.com) divider line 134
    More: Interesting, burden of proof, Eastern Shore, Silver Spring  
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30752 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Feb 2013 at 12:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-21 09:19:23 AM  
Are other people seeing an article?  All I get is a screen full of unicode.
 
2013-02-21 09:21:28 AM  
Hard to fight a speed trap that generates $2 million a year for a small town. Funny how they are the only locality that does not allow you to attend traffic school, either.
 
2013-02-21 09:30:01 AM  
Traffic court clerk here......

We have photo enforcement in our jurisdiction. The speeding tickets are issued by an officer who is monitoring the equipment, live, in the van which is moved from location to location. The equipment is generally set to only take the photo when the vehicle is clocked at 11mph over the speed limit. Occasionally, they'll set the threshold at 10 over. State law says no permanent installations of photo radar. The only differences between the photo radar cites and the others are the officer doesn't turn on the lights to chase you down to hand you the ticket & the fact that the assumption is that the registered owner is the driver. The registered owner is informed of the citation by mail at the address on the vehicle registration. If the owner is not the driver, they only have to complete a form & send in a copy of their photo id to have the case dismissed. Extremely simple process & everything goes perfectly most of the time. However, you have idiots who think they bear no responsibility to keep their addresses current with the DMV. They are the ones who get on discussion boards like this and try to blame their inevitable suspension for FTA on everyone but themselves. "I filed a change of address with the post office." "I was waiting for the registration renewal to change my address." Stupid excuses. You move, you change your address with DMV on both your license and any cars you own.

Photo red light enforcement is more automated. An officer reviews the photographic & video evidence and issues the cite based on that. Video is relatively new to the process here.  Many people don't realize they can go online & watch themselves violate the law. I laugh every time someone contacts me to change a not guilty plea to no contest because they looked at the video and decided they don't want to embarrass themselves in front of a courtroom full of officers and other defendants.

Bottom line....if you drive in an area with photo enforcement, be extra careful about updating DMV with any and all changes of address. Make sure both your operator's license & vehicle registrations are updated. Don't ignore any correspondence because it looks like it may just be your city water bill or tax bill & you pay online so why bother opening it. It very well could be your photo enforcement ticket. And, for fark's sake, if you get a notice from DMV of suspension, don't wait until the day before your suspension to try to set things straight. Judges will generally set aside default judgments if you can demonstrate that you did not receive the cite in the mail (even due to your own negligence with updating your address). However, nothing in government works as fast as you feel it should. DMV is a separate agency and it's going to take several days for them to remove the suspension after you've come to whine to the judge about how unfair it all is.
 
2013-02-21 09:36:21 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Elmwood really is amusing.

Bankrupt. Broke as a joke, and they just got these lovely new cruisers. Challengers and chargers. In an area where the speed limit is 25 or 15 everywhere. Automated plate readers too. They just sit there and pull people over for any and everything. They pulled me over one night for having a suspended license. I didn't KNOW I had a suspended license, but they were more than happy to help me figure out the state paperwork error that caused their system to flag me as suspended. More than happy to help. In court. Over 6 months, stretched out as long as they could, with $400 in court fees attached.

Court meets in a VERY hot little room with few seats, in the back of the municipal building with no parking, at 5:30 PM. If you are contesting a ticket it will take at least 3 visits. Due to the INSANE number of cases, traffic tickets are usually gotten to around 7 to 7:30 PM. You will not be admitted if you arrive late, even if you are last on the docket.

No translators available. No children allowed.

Yeah, they've got it figured out. Make it impossible or as uncomfortable as possible to use the system as you have the rights to. Get everyone to plea out, take a "No points" offense with a $200 fine and $200 court costs. It gets you in and out in 30 minutes.

I hope they lose EVERY DIME they have made in that shiat town on the lawsuits that are coming down on them.

/might be slightly bitter.


"...a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
...
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures."


/oh, wait, courts are Judicial, not Legislative. That makes it alright, I guess. Never mind.
 
2013-02-21 09:44:24 AM  
Everything I read here from

- the entitled snowflakes who become indignant constittuional scholars even though at the core of it they are clearly guilty
- the court reporter who tells us that cases are tossed if the driver is not the owner
- the indiscriminate way in which judges reduce sentences for 'an explanation'
- the lawyers who promise win-or-free dismissals

make the entire US traffic enforcement system an expensive joke.

here in the UK, it works like this:

if your car is detected to have been speeding, you get a fine in the mail.  you then pay the fine.  if your friend was driving the car, you chase your friend down for the money.

no effing rocket science, and check out statistics of US vs UK accident rates / road deaths if you think they may be on to something here.

FARK people who bring lawyers to traffic court even though they known darn well they are fundamentally guilty of the infraction.
 
2013-02-21 09:46:05 AM  
Shadow Blasko:
If it was about safety, you'd see an officer there.

and yet traffic cameras are widespread in the UK and it's arguably one of the safest places in the world to drive.  im not saying "correlation", but i'm saying "not your false non-correlation, either."
 
2013-02-21 09:46:12 AM  
The problem with this, and traffic tickets in general, is that there is SUPPOSED to be a judge that is IMPARTIAL to hear your case.

In reality, this is practically never the case though, and the "judge" operates under the unconstitutional assumption that you are guilty before your case is even heard.

Traffic tickets are one of the only times where it is widely known that you are guilty until proven innocent.

COMPLETELY unconstitutional.
 
2013-02-21 10:07:42 AM  
A couple of years ago I got a ticket for doing 70 in a construction zone outside Baltimore on a road trip. For $42. It literally would have cost me more in gas to drive down there one way from here in MA than the ticket cost.

\same trip I got a ticket for not paying a toll on the Garden State Parkway when my EZPass got registered at the booths before and after it
\\there's certain things that really should cost less to track than the cost of printing a ticket, and that's one
 
2013-02-21 10:13:16 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: The problem with this, and traffic tickets in general, is that there is SUPPOSED to be a judge that is IMPARTIAL to hear your case.

In reality, this is practically never the case though, and the "judge" operates under the unconstitutional assumption that you are guilty before your case is even heard.

Traffic tickets are one of the only times where it is widely known that you are guilty until proven innocent.

COMPLETELY unconstitutional.


There is so much wrong with this post.....

Traffic tickets (as opposed to traffic crimes like DUII) are civil violations. You cannot go to jail for a simple traffic ticket. Failing to appear on a traffic citation may result in criminal charges, but jail will not be imposed as a punishment for the citation itself. As a civil matter, the plaintiff (state) only has to prove that it was more likely than not that you committed the offense. 51%. Not difficult at all. The judges I work with take no joy in imposing fines on drivers. However, they must go by the law. It's hard to beat a traffic ticket, but not impossible. Your best tactic in dealing with a traffic cite is to avoid being an a-hole to the cop. He/she can be your best friend in court. Most dismissals are not due to the brilliant defense put on by the average driver with their hard-earned GED in law, but the compassion of the officer. If you can't be respectful in dealing with the officer, then hire an attorney. You'll likely get a much better deal than trying to go ahead on your own.

Since you can't go to jail, most "constitutional" protections do not apply.
 
2013-02-21 10:45:50 AM  
CSB:

A friend's father likes to tell the story of how he won a speeding ticket then got harassed by the local cops until a judge did something about it.

He was given a speeding ticket - something like 79mph, so it was more than a speeding ticket, it was reckless driving too

It was night, raining heavily, he drove a POS pickup truck with 4 cylinders, going up hill

Long story short, he got his hands on an archived copy of Car and Driver discussing acceleration and general performance of his specific car, got a certified letter from Good Year discussing the performance of the tires in wet conditions, did research on the type of radar gun etc.  Basically proved that his truck would have been totally out of control/in a ditch if he was driving that fast in those conditions.

The cop had used his radar gun inside the patrol car, window up, with rain on the window, which distorted the beam and gave a false reading.  He was able to prove this.

He had graphs, charts, etc.

Apparently the cop had like 5 other people in that court room from that night and the judge asked all 5 if it was raining when they got pulled over, they all said "yes," and the judge not only threw the tickets out, but he chewed out the cop too.

So fast forward a week or so, and he gets a parking ticket - failure to park straight within a parking space.  He was not outside the lines, just ever so slightly crooked, but within the space.

Weeks later he then gets another parking ticket - parking more than 18" from the curb - He had parked in a space that was curved, so the front and back of his car were only a couple of inches from the curb, but the middle of his truck was more than 18" from the curve.  Apparently you are supposed to bend your car in that parking space.

He then got pulled over for having too dark of tint on his windows (the windows have never been tinted), the cop then told him that his windows were fine, and that he was mistaken, but he smelled marijuana and alcohol on his breath, so they did a lengthy field sobriety test, called a K-9 unit out to search his truck, which took over a hour to get there, they pulled everything out of his truck, they opened the hood and searched in there, they went to town with it.  Wasted like 3+ hours of his time.  He was cuffed and stuffed into the back of the patrol car and left without AC - It was like 90+ degrees out so he baked for the hour or so he was in custody.

When they finally let him go, they left him with all of his shiat on the side of the road, which took him like an hour to put everything back.  About 40 minutes goes by as he is all alone putting his stuff back in and a new cop shows up and tickets him for impeding traffic and littering.  In the process of them searching his truck a few papers had blown a half a block down the street.

So he goes to court for the first charge and brings all the other tickets with him.  At this point he has lawyered up and him and the lawyer chronicle to the judge the various harassment he has encountered.  Apparently in the days that followed after he got the first speeding ticket, the judge started throwing out a ton of tickets because all the cops had been using their radar guns from inside their patrol cars with the windows up and in the rain.  So collectively, a few in the department systematically started harassing the hell out of him.

They rescheduled for a few weeks later and the judge interviewed every cop involved in the harassment, he chewed them the hell out, and threw out all tickets.  The cops were suspended for a while, none were fired, the police department/city was sued, my friends father won a few bucks and that is that.
 
2013-02-21 10:48:56 AM  

Cornelius Dribble: jaylectricity: snuff3r: Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.

Or let's get real about the speed limits. Go five mph below the limit so that when your car accidentally goes a little faster you are still under the limit.

People assume that if the limit is 40 you should drive 40. That's just not true. The absolute limit is 40, you should drive at 35 and if you go down a hill and it creeps up to 39 you're still safe.

That kind of thinking leads to drivers watching their speedometer instead of watching the road and consequently getting into MORE accidents. But at least they're not speeding, right?


Are you really that dense? You watch the speedometer the same amount. Just enough to make sure you're somewhere *near* a safe speed. Just set your safe speed at 5mph below what's printed on the speed limit sign.
 
2013-02-21 10:52:45 AM  

Z-clipped: Unreasonable burden of speedometer accuracy. This is not a realistic idea.
Plus, as others have said, it takes drivers' attention away from the situation on the road, which largely defeats the purpose of having a speed limit in the first place.


Again, it only takes more attention to your speedometer if you INSIST on driving the absolute fastest you are allowed to. Just chill out, you don't need to get where you're going a whopping two minutes earlier.
 
2013-02-21 10:54:33 AM  

jjacobs7: ecmoRandomNumbers: Got one in Phoenix and didn't bother going to court. Checked online after my court date.

Charges dismissed without prejudice.


without prejudice means you can still be charged.


They'd have to get a process server to make the 9-hour round trip to where I live.
 
2013-02-21 11:05:08 AM  

snuff3r: TFA: "The trial is weighted against you. If the police officer says it's calibrated properly, then that's enough preponderance of the evidence for the judge. He didn't show me any evidence it was calibrated correctly," says Williams."

No, the countless certification and testing procedures are weighted against you. Governments spend a LOT of money ensuring a super low error rate for speed cameras and they're tested regularly for compliance. The judge knows this. Unless you have evidence otherwise you're not going to win your case. If you were serious about thinking you had a chance to beat the ticket on these grounds then you would have done your research and put in a GIPA/FOI request for test/compliance data on the camera in question.

Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.


I disagree.  They're interested in money.  Whether the ticket is legitimate or not doesn't really matter--look at how the system reacts when people manage to prove the cameras are wrong.
 
2013-02-21 11:14:23 AM  
The cams are bad in MD, some places change the speed limit and cam up when they're having a festival or something touristy in the area.
Can we stop pretending these are for safety yet?
money money money
and the roads are still crap
 
2013-02-21 12:00:49 PM  
I once got a speeding ticket in Georgia thanks to zero tolerance laws that even the cop and judge didn't want to  give me.

It was in a school zone, so the normal 45 MPH was 35 MPH when I went  through.  It was the 2nd day I lived in that city so I didn't know there was a school there, and the sign was not visible from where I came from.  (It was placed too close to an intersection, so I came up to this intersection and looked to the left to pull out in traffic, the sign was viewable in the right rear window of my car, which isn't the direction one normally looks because there are no cars coming from up that way.

The cop who stopped me didn't want to write me the ticket because he knew I didn't realize it was a school zone, but zero tolerance meant he had to.  In court, he showed up and testified that the sign wasn't visible from the road and I had no way of knowing that I was speed was lower than normal because it was a school zone.  I still got the ticket because it didn't matter.  I was speeding, so I got the ticket.
 
2013-02-21 12:07:18 PM  

jaylectricity: Cornelius Dribble: jaylectricity: snuff3r: Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.

Or let's get real about the speed limits. Go five mph below the limit so that when your car accidentally goes a little faster you are still under the limit.

People assume that if the limit is 40 you should drive 40. That's just not true. The absolute limit is 40, you should drive at 35 and if you go down a hill and it creeps up to 39 you're still safe.

That kind of thinking leads to drivers watching their speedometer instead of watching the road and consequently getting into MORE accidents. But at least they're not speeding, right?

Are you really that dense? You watch the speedometer the same amount. Just enough to make sure you're somewhere *near* a safe speed. Just set your safe speed at 5mph below what's printed on the speed limit sign.


Wow, you are REALLY worked up over this subject. Or do you always go around insulting strangers for no reason?  Your road rage seems to have boiled over into your Internet time.

Asshole.
 
2013-02-21 12:18:06 PM  

Cornelius Dribble: Wow, you are REALLY worked up over this subject. Or do you always go around insulting strangers for no reason? Your road rage seems to have boiled over into your Internet time.

Asshole.


*yawn*
 
2013-02-21 12:39:25 PM  

LordOfThePings: [www.mels-place.com image 225x200]


WrongTrousers: [media-1.web.britannica.com image 207x300]


Ok good point.
 
2013-02-21 01:10:33 PM  

Shadow Blasko: If you're speeding, you get a ticket. In Elmwood, you get a fine. It's no points on your license, and its 2 or 3x what the ticket would cost if you were actually pulled over by a cop. It costs money above that if you wish to question it.


I'd talk with a local lawyer before doing anything, but given the sounds of it, it's not actually a criminal offense.  In other words, they can't put you in jail if you don't pay up.

Can't say about Elmwood, but I've heard in some areas that if you just ignore the ticket they can't do anything to you other than send reminders - they can't even report it on your credit history.

jaylectricity: People assume that if the limit is 40 you should drive 40. That's just not true. The absolute limit is 40, you should drive at 35 and if you go down a hill and it creeps up to 39 you're still safe.


Time is money and in most areas speed limits are set artificially low already.  In many areas they <i>assume</i> everybody will be doing 5 over and set the limit accordingly.


kkinnison: the cost of the cameras, never outweighs the cost of the judge, police officers, and the fines

any municipality that uses speed cameras, or red light cameras, is slowly circling the drain for revenue and don't even know it


This is why there's a number of cities and counties in the USA, especially California, that are pulling them out:
1.  They piss off the ordinary people more than cops(reelection threat) - Look up Chicago's experience.
2.  They're revenue inefficient - you have to drain $1M out of your resident's pockets to get $50k.
3.  There's enough countervailing studies to blur any claims of gains in safety.
4.  Even without the revenue inefficiency, lawsuits are popping up just to make sure they're not cost effective.

I think the greatest was when one county signed 99 year leases to be able to keep their speed cameras under a grandfather clause when the state was making them illegal only to have their authority to issue tickets via them pulled period.

mikefinch: I love how many people thought they could argue the calibration aspect. I guarantee they have an SOP for keeping those up to par. I would show up just to ask the judge whether he thought it was worth the courts time.


I've read about TWO major fights about honesty/calibration that actually had merit.  One in England, one in the USA.  In both cases they did it as a matter of principle and paid far more to defend themselves than merely paying the ticket would have cost.
The English guy won - he hired a professional driver to test the top speed of his (crappy) car on a closed track to prove that it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to go the speed he had supposedly been going at.
The second was when the driver was a teenager driving a vehicle that his parents had installed a logging GPS into.  The officer said he was going 62, the log said 45(the speed limit).  For a $194 ticket, the county ended up spending $15k+ to fight it; largely in an attempt to prevent further challenges that way.  Going by web searches - there have been subsequent cases elsewhere, mostly going the opposite way.  So all that money spent will probably end up going to waste in the 'preventative' sense - the next time a cop in the county hands out a ticket to somebody with a GPS that says otherwise, they can expect the fight all over again.
 
2013-02-21 01:12:49 PM  

Camus27: Karne
A bit off topic, but something I read in your profile made me curious. Not meaning to be nasty, but there's really no other way to ask this.

1) "I'm a militant atheist"

2) "I am a parent who's lost a child, Hannah. I love her and miss her everyday. She was a redhead just like her father and her big brother. I'm thinking of you always, baby girl.

Er..... who are you talking to? She's gone. Nothing's there (per your first point). Do you also talk to dust on the ground?

That was a seriously retarded point. "Thinking of you" doesn't translate to - "I believe in Jesus angels". You are a moron.

Actually, I think Guy has a point. it says "thinking of you" - that is directed at the person that doesn't exist,  if it said "thinking of her," that would be logically consistent.  But rather than have an intelligent discussion, let's just call people retards and morons.


So you're cool with that moron digging through someones profile to rip on them for missing their dead daughter?  You are also a moron.

Only Jesus people can miss the departed? I had no idea.
 
2013-02-21 01:33:09 PM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: Everything I read here from

- the entitled snowflakes who become indignant constittuional scholars even though at the core of it they are clearly guilty
- the court reporter who tells us that cases are tossed if the driver is not the owner
- the indiscriminate way in which judges reduce sentences for 'an explanation'
- the lawyers who promise win-or-free dismissals

make the entire US traffic enforcement system an expensive joke.

here in the UK, it works like this:

if your car is detected to have been speeding, you get a fine in the mail.  you then pay the fine.  if your friend was driving the car, you chase your friend down for the money.

no effing rocket science, and check out statistics of US vs UK accident rates / road deaths if you think they may be on to something here.

FARK people who bring lawyers to traffic court even though they known darn well they are fundamentally guilty of the infraction.


And this is why I'm glad Americans kicked the crown to the curb 220-some odd years ago.
 
2013-02-21 01:35:19 PM  

Karne: Camus27: Karne
A bit off topic, but something I read in your profile made me curious. Not meaning to be nasty, but there's really no other way to ask this.

1) "I'm a militant atheist"

2) "I am a parent who's lost a child, Hannah. I love her and miss her everyday. She was a redhead just like her father and her big brother. I'm thinking of you always, baby girl.

Er..... who are you talking to? She's gone. Nothing's there (per your first point). Do you also talk to dust on the ground?

That was a seriously retarded point. "Thinking of you" doesn't translate to - "I believe in Jesus angels". You are a moron.

Actually, I think Guy has a point. it says "thinking of you" - that is directed at the person that doesn't exist,  if it said "thinking of her," that would be logically consistent.  But rather than have an intelligent discussion, let's just call people retards and morons.

So you're cool with that moron digging through someones profile to rip on them for missing their dead daughter?  You are also a moron.

Only Jesus people can miss the departed? I had no idea.


I agree with you. You don't have to believe in God to believe that dead relatives are still out there somewhere watching over you.
 
2013-02-21 02:39:05 PM  
Speed and redlight cameras aren't about safety. They're just about bilking the public for cash.
 
2013-02-21 02:44:49 PM  

Z-clipped: Fade2black: A lawyer. Every. Single. Time.

Kind of a pricey tactic though, no?  Aren't you looking at $500-$1000 for a court appearance by a decent lawyer?


Traffic lawyers are $200-300 a pop. They're easy cases that take minimal effort because cops are either lazy, or they understand fighting your ONE ticket isn't worth the 3-4 he could've written in that time he would've been in court.
 
2013-02-21 03:23:31 PM  

snuff3r: TFA: "The trial is weighted against you. If the police officer says it's calibrated properly, then that's enough preponderance of the evidence for the judge. He didn't show me any evidence it was calibrated correctly," says Williams."

No, the countless certification and testing procedures are weighted against you. Governments spend a LOT of money ensuring a super low error rate for speed cameras and they're tested regularly for compliance. The judge knows this. Unless you have evidence otherwise you're not going to win your case. If you were serious about thinking you had a chance to beat the ticket on these grounds then you would have done your research and put in a GIPA/FOI request for test/compliance data on the camera in question.

Here's a far easier way to avoid the ticket and time you've wasted of the court system: Don't farking speed, and if you do and get caught out, cop it on the chin and stfu.


WTF?

Can you prove ANYTHING you just said?  Because where I live, I know for 100% fact that almost everything you said is total bullshiat.  There is no testing requirement for the cameras, they aren't owned or operated by the government (nor certified), there is no involvement of a qualified traffic engineer, and you can't file a FOIA against private corporations.

So basically, I call bullshiat.
 
2013-02-21 03:47:23 PM  
Nicest PG County judge I've ever heard of.............

/howard county cops suck
 
2013-02-21 07:49:54 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: snuff3r: Shadow Blasko: No non-corrupt cop is going to pull you over for 27 in a 25 unless you're begging for it. The system was not designed for "yes you were speeding, no you were not" binary enforcement. Taking the humans out of the loop has made it crazy.

But it is that binary. People seem to think it's not and that's where you start hearing bleating from the sidelines about "cameras are nothing more than revenue machines, screwing us all over", etc. Just as it's binary that a cop can exercise discretion - will book you, won't book you. 0 or 1.

Legislation gives authority to bureaucrats to create a clear line in the sand. That line is in the form of a speed limit. Many systems exist that allow the bureaucrat to create this limit - road condition testing, fatality statistics, etc etc etc. Once that line is created the only choice that exists is whether you cross that line or not. There's no leeway outside of that. The cameras are nothing more than a tool to catch you as you cross that line.Cameras exist, will always exist and will always pick people up for crossing that line.

That aside, I'm not arguing that cameras can be wrong or don't have problems. No system is perfect. The story you've linked is a prime example of where the system has been questioned and a question of error was backed up with evidence.

Personally, i farking hate cameras. I can't see how 1-2 kph over the limit is worth the efforts of a ticket, but meh. As someone who spends 99% of road time on a sportsbike i often test the boundaries. And when get caught ill take it like a man.

A bit off topic, but something I read in your profile made me curious. Not meaning to be nasty, but there's really no other way to ask this.

1) "I'm a militant atheist"

2) "I am a parent who's lost a child, Hannah. I love her and miss her everyday. She was a redhead just like her father and her big brother. I'm thinking of you always, baby girl.

Er..... who are you talking to? She's gone. Nothing's there (per y ...


You're ignorant. Don't post on this site again.
 
2013-02-21 08:06:02 PM  
Or just throw it in the trash because in many states it's unenforceable.
 
2013-02-22 12:04:25 AM  
I've had my fair share of tickets in my life, some warranted, some not. I have no tickets on my record. Why?

Subpoena the officer. I have yet to have an officer show up. Case dismissed.
 
2013-02-22 12:07:57 AM  

andyfromfl: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: snuff3r: Shadow Blasko: No non-corrupt cop is going to pull you over for 27 in a 25 unless you're begging for it. The system was not designed for "yes you were speeding, no you were not" binary enforcement. Taking the humans out of the loop has made it crazy.

But it is that binary. People seem to think it's not and that's where you start hearing bleating from the sidelines about "cameras are nothing more than revenue machines, screwing us all over", etc. Just as it's binary that a cop can exercise discretion - will book you, won't book you. 0 or 1.

Legislation gives authority to bureaucrats to create a clear line in the sand. That line is in the form of a speed limit. Many systems exist that allow the bureaucrat to create this limit - road condition testing, fatality statistics, etc etc etc. Once that line is created the only choice that exists is whether you cross that line or not. There's no leeway outside of that. The cameras are nothing more than a tool to catch you as you cross that line.Cameras exist, will always exist and will always pick people up for crossing that line.

That aside, I'm not arguing that cameras can be wrong or don't have problems. No system is perfect. The story you've linked is a prime example of where the system has been questioned and a question of error was backed up with evidence.

Personally, i farking hate cameras. I can't see how 1-2 kph over the limit is worth the efforts of a ticket, but meh. As someone who spends 99% of road time on a sportsbike i often test the boundaries. And when get caught ill take it like a man.

A bit off topic, but something I read in your profile made me curious. Not meaning to be nasty, but there's really no other way to ask this.

1) "I'm a militant atheist"

2) "I am a parent who's lost a child, Hannah. I love her and miss her everyday. She was a redhead just like her father and her big brother. I'm thinking of you always, baby girl.

Er..... who are you talking to? She' ...


Or....????

Oooooo, an ITG!

global3.memecdn.com
 
2013-02-22 06:42:49 AM  
i.qkme.me
 
2013-02-22 07:19:17 AM  

FarketyFarkerson: There is so much wrong with this post.....

Traffic tickets (as opposed to traffic crimes like DUII) are civil violations. You cannot go to jail for a simple traffic ticket. Failing to appear on a traffic citation may result in criminal charges, but jail will not be imposed as a punishment for the citation itself. As a civil matter, the plaintiff (state) only has to prove that it was more likely than not that you committed the offense. 51%. Not difficult at all. The judges I work with take no joy in imposing fines on drivers. However, they must go by the law. It's hard to beat a traffic ticket, but not impossible. Your best tactic in dealing with a traffic cite is to avoid being an a-hole to the cop. He/she can be your best friend in court. Most dismissals are not due to the brilliant defense put on by the average driver with their hard-earned GED in law, but the compassion of the officer. If you can't be respectful in dealing with the officer, then hire an attorney. You'll likely get a much better deal than trying to go ahead on your own.

Since you can't go to jail, most "constitutional" protections do not apply.


This is incorrect as a blanket statement.  Different states charge moving violations differently.  In some states they ARE treated as normal crimes (and your ticket explicitly say so at the top: "This citation charges you with a CRIME"), and some violations can absolutely land you in jail, particularly for multiple offenses.  Driving without insurance, driving while suspended, speeding 20mph over, habitual offender, and misdemeanor reckless driving can carry up to 6 months in jail in some places.  A felony reckless driving conviction nets you automatic jail time in most states.

I'm not disputing that in your area the system works the way you say it does, and it's great to have the opinion of someone in the know in the thread, but that doesn't mean that the system is morally justifiable.  There is no excuse for the way some municipalities stack the deck against people accused of traffic violations.  The law should NEVER be about making a profit, and traffic laws VERY frequently are.
 
2013-02-22 08:17:05 AM  
It's somehow both funny and sad to see the reactions of people when you puncture their little pretentious conceptual balloons of hot air.

My my. An ITG and Ad Hominem Harry ride into town to the rescue.
 
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