If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(GameTrailers)   Playstation 4 revealed in New York. Hot Pockets expected to see record shortages worldwide   (gametrailers.com) divider line 197
    More: Interesting, Hot Pockets, PlayStation, New York  
•       •       •

3977 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Feb 2013 at 10:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



197 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-02-21 09:26:46 AM

RoxtarRyan: You may want to do some research yourself, as you can already do that with a PC. Get a USB controller (wired xbox 360 controllers work also), and use your big screen as a monitor. Not difficult, and less expensive than buying another console. This offers nothing that my PC already does, and seems like a cheap cash grab by Valve.


It will be easier than lugging your system down, and you won't have to move your PC.  Play on it or your TV, doesn't matter.

Valve has built up a lot of good will with gamers over the years.  So long as they price it reasonably, I can see it selling well.
 
2013-02-21 09:29:48 AM

echoshizzle: I see no future in streaming games, which seems to be a big part of the backwards compatibility. Watching the damn live conference was horrible and I can't imagine having a ton of users on Sony's servers. Not to mention there just isn't enough bandwidth (yet) for this to be worth while. Graphics on streaming games = no good.

I can't wait until Nintendo's offerings at e3. New 1st party titles that will be worth while.

Hoping that Valve actually creates and releases the steam box, as well. That will be awesome not only for console gamers, but huge for PC gamers as well.


Uh, isn't that what Steam is?

I don't get it, what's with the endless hard-on everyone has for Valve and their Steam Box?  Consoles are dying except for this new console that hasn't come out yet.  Streaming is a terrible idea except that Valve is going to do it soon.  DRM is the devil and I'll never deal with a company that uses it, except for Valve.

Can we at least wait to see what how the little Steam Box actually does in reality before we make grand proclamations about it?  For all their faults, XBOX and PSN have been running and delivering games for years.  Steam seems to be popular with the PC gamers merely because of the cheap deals they have from time to time.
 
2013-02-21 09:41:35 AM

theurge14: I don't get it, what's with the endless hard-on everyone has for Valve and their Steam Box?


Thank farking Christ someone else sees this like I do. Yes, we all love Steam because they have kickass deals in the summertime and around Christmas... But farkin 'aye, some of these people remind me of Apple cult members, where they can do no wrong. "Why, yes, I already own a laptop, but why would I want to lug that around if I want to surf the net? I'll just pay another few hundred dollars for a crippled version of something I already own."

Shadowknight: It will be easier than lugging your system down, and you won't have to move your PC. Play on it or your TV, doesn't matter.


Anyone who has no idea how to set up a TV as a second monitor without the PC being right there next to it deserves to waste their money buying another computer.
 
2013-02-21 09:41:53 AM

Meethos: Someone correct me if I am wrong, but wouldnt the system being x86 limit it to only using about 4 gigs of ram at a time?


The 4gb of RAM limitation is a 32-bit OS limitation with regards to memory addressing. PAE can get around it but PAE is basically disabled in 32 bit versions of Windows except for some of the higher end Windows Server OSes (hence why 32-bit Server 2008 Enteprise can support 64GB of RAM, but Windows 7 32-bit can only support 4GB of RAM).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension

The "Design" section should explain it pretty clearly.

They don't specify whether the chip will be x86-32 or x86-64 (though I'd be scratching my head if it was the former) but even with a 32-bit OS running on a 64-biatchip, it probably won't be an issue as I believe the current PS3 OS is based on some Linux distro, and the Linux kernel has supported PAE for quite some time.
 
2013-02-21 09:48:22 AM

kab: Beerguy: The Steam Box will allow you to access any of the controller enabled games that ARE ALREADY ON YOUR STEAM ACCOUNT so that you can play them on your T.V.

Lets approach it from this angle then.  Why do I want a separate box to do this when I can simply lug my theoretical uber-desktop PC out of the office, go plug that into the living room TV, and essentially accomplish the same thing?

This thing will live or die entirely by its price point, IMO.


Yep, I built a home entertainment PC a few years ago that I play my Steam games on with a wireless 360 controller for many of the games.  HDMI outlets, able to record TV, and so on.  I can even get some classic games like Luigi's Mansion to run on there if I want.
 
2013-02-21 09:53:22 AM

Joe_diGriz: AdamK: the system architecture is ok i guess, 8gb gddr5 was definitely a surprise but whats up with an x86 cpu? obviously only using 8gb would only require an x86 architecture but everybody is moving on to x64

It is x86-64 (or x64). Most people just use "x86" as a generic term now, meaning the overall instruction set compatibility. Even the Intel Atom has built-in 64-bit support nowadays, although it needs to be "enabled" by the integrator (right chipset, etc). And even then, they're generally referred to not as an "x86 CPU", but simply as "Atom". Neither AMD nor Intel has really made a mainstream x86 CPU w/out 64-bit support for the past 5+ years.


gotcha, i guess either way they learned their lesson from the cell processor and ports will be far simpler and more consistent from the very beginning, advantage wise for sony who knows - microsoft doesn't necessarily have to match volume just bandwidth and they'd likely be on par for what 3rd parties will truly end up being able to afford to develop, either way it's better than going with something exotic - now they just have to price it well or end up with an xbox 1

Shadowknight: AdamK: also, killzone - seriously don't give a damn about that franchise anymore after playing the ps3 games, those games were chock full of amazing scripted sequences as well and looked better than most other ps3/360 games but guess what? games were still awful!

I don't think they were awful so much as generic.  It's like Halo for me:  Well done in the genre, but just very bland to the point of flavorless. There's nothing in the universe that really stands out as interesting or unique (ugly aliens threaten, we fight them) but they were incredibly well done for what they are.  The controls were tight and had a sense of weight to them.  The guns were satisfying.  The multiplayer was fun, but forgettable.  

If they could do something with the same team and make it like a MAG-type game, only in the future with future weapons, I think they could make something interesting.  But as it is, it's a "Me Too!" of Halo a couple years too late.


well sure, sonic 2006 is truly awful from a bigger perspective, but talking strictly in the realm of investing $60 and countless hours into a shooter for the sake of fun? it wasn't great in the end, not even good really, they screwed up the multiplayer in 2 and the campaign in 3... i'm sure this next killzone will be polished but i'm also sure the campaign will be 4 hours like the previous ones and the mutliplayer won't be balanced right - and those things might as well make a AAA-budget shooter awful
 
2013-02-21 10:06:41 AM

DanZero: Also

[img.photobucket.com image 700x250]


Interesting, an unfunny webcomic from someone who's never played a PS3...
 
2013-02-21 10:11:14 AM

theurge14: echoshizzle: I see no future in streaming games, which seems to be a big part of the backwards compatibility. Watching the damn live conference was horrible and I can't imagine having a ton of users on Sony's servers. Not to mention there just isn't enough bandwidth (yet) for this to be worth while. Graphics on streaming games = no good.

I can't wait until Nintendo's offerings at e3. New 1st party titles that will be worth while.

Hoping that Valve actually creates and releases the steam box, as well. That will be awesome not only for console gamers, but huge for PC gamers as well.

Uh, isn't that what Steam is?

I don't get it, what's with the endless hard-on everyone has for Valve and their Steam Box?  Consoles are dying except for this new console that hasn't come out yet.  Streaming is a terrible idea except that Valve is going to do it soon.  DRM is the devil and I'll never deal with a company that uses it, except for Valve.

Can we at least wait to see what how the little Steam Box actually does in reality before we make grand proclamations about it?  For all their faults, XBOX and PSN have been running and delivering games for years.  Steam seems to be popular with the PC gamers merely because of the cheap deals they have from time to time.


steam is popular on PC's because it offers the best user experience atm, sales opened the doors to the masses and made investing in a gaming PC worth it for many sure, but it's the overall service in the end that matters

as for DRM, there are two things going on here: 1) for pc users it really boils down to trust-factor and convenience: "does your DRM get in the way of me enjoying the game?" is the issue in the end, some games do it well, some don't it really is that simple and 2) for console users DRM is alien and completely destroys the way the market has functioned for the most part so far, so for them it's basically flipping their entertainment of choice on its head... can't blame them either, it took 5-6 years for people to warm up to steam too and that was with valve of all companies, now sony/microsoft/ea/activision/ubisoft/etc. want the same trust from console gamers of all consumers instantly? that's a stretch
 
2013-02-21 10:14:50 AM

spamdog: Just farting out of my mouth here, but you know what I'd love to see in a console?

- Officially sanctioned homebrew software and games There was mention of publishing your own games last night very briefly for PS4
- No paid license required to run your own code on your console ummm, buy/build a PC
- Inbuilt media center with support for pirate-friendly formats, and easy integreation with network file shares/external HDD's currently PS3 has greatly expanded media formats
- Easily swappable HDD bay already on PS3
- Less cocking around with profiles and such - if only I had like a card or some widget with an RFID chip or something which I could plug into the controller and it would have my saves/profile on it. Because a few clicks is too hard? Seems loosing that RFID chip would be a disaster
- Free online multiplayer service (cost is quite prohibitive in Australia, although I believe it has gone down recently) Already on PS3
- TV, and TV recording That doesn't even make sense as a feature for a gaming console.

Of course, there's just too much greed involved so nothing like that will ever happen.


 
2013-02-21 10:16:35 AM

AdamK: theurge14: echoshizzle: I see no future in streaming games, which seems to be a big part of the backwards compatibility. Watching the damn live conference was horrible and I can't imagine having a ton of users on Sony's servers. Not to mention there just isn't enough bandwidth (yet) for this to be worth while. Graphics on streaming games = no good.

I can't wait until Nintendo's offerings at e3. New 1st party titles that will be worth while.

Hoping that Valve actually creates and releases the steam box, as well. That will be awesome not only for console gamers, but huge for PC gamers as well.

Uh, isn't that what Steam is?

I don't get it, what's with the endless hard-on everyone has for Valve and their Steam Box?  Consoles are dying except for this new console that hasn't come out yet.  Streaming is a terrible idea except that Valve is going to do it soon.  DRM is the devil and I'll never deal with a company that uses it, except for Valve.

Can we at least wait to see what how the little Steam Box actually does in reality before we make grand proclamations about it?  For all their faults, XBOX and PSN have been running and delivering games for years.  Steam seems to be popular with the PC gamers merely because of the cheap deals they have from time to time.

steam is popular on PC's because it offers the best user experience atm, sales opened the doors to the masses and made investing in a gaming PC worth it for many sure, but it's the overall service in the end that matters

as for DRM, there are two things going on here: 1) for pc users it really boils down to trust-factor and convenience: "does your DRM get in the way of me enjoying the game?" is the issue in the end, some games do it well, some don't it really is that simple and 2) for console users DRM is alien and completely destroys the way the market has functioned for the most part so far, so for them it's basically flipping their entertainment of choice on its head... can't blame them either, it took 5-6 ...


Funny thing is, the Steam network is so popular because it basically brought PSN/Marketplace to PC...
 
rpm
2013-02-21 10:16:52 AM

Yuri Futanari: Thought it was a pre-rendered cinematic at first, but you can see the HUD.


Right, because you could never render a HUD into cinematics.

Treat everything shown as video until the games are actually out.
 
rpm
2013-02-21 10:20:35 AM

AdamK: 2) for console users DRM is alien


It's the exact opposite of alien. Consoles are one freaking big dongle. Online DRM is common on consoles too - limited installs, need to be signed in (on non-native console), one console only playing and bound to a user (Bionic Commando).
 
2013-02-21 10:20:45 AM

RoxtarRyan: Beerguy: RoxtarRyan: Beerguy: The Steam Box will conquer all!

[cdn2.sbnation.com image 850x566]

That's cute that Steam thinks selling a console is going to replace the millions of installs on PCs. Why the hell would I spend more money to do something I can already do?

You may wan't to do some research.

The Steam Box will allow you to access any of the controller enabled games that ARE ALREADY ON YOUR STEAM ACCOUNT so that you can play them on your T.V.

You may want to do some research yourself, as you can already do that with a PC. Get a USB controller (wired xbox 360 controllers work also), and use your big screen as a monitor. Not difficult, and less expensive than buying another console. This offers nothing that my PC already does, and seems like a cheap cash grab by Valve.



That's why they're a business and not a charity... Also, this is the bridge between the PC market with some daunting entry level hurdles for the newcomer, or those without the skills or knowledge to build a PC for gaming and the console market's plug n play model.

 This is genius, and with the announcement of PS4 using the x86system to make porting games easier I see the line all but being a thing of the past in 2-3 years...
 
2013-02-21 10:26:56 AM

AdamK: theurge14: echoshizzle: I see no future in streaming games, which seems to be a big part of the backwards compatibility. Watching the damn live conference was horrible and I can't imagine having a ton of users on Sony's servers. Not to mention there just isn't enough bandwidth (yet) for this to be worth while. Graphics on streaming games = no good.

I can't wait until Nintendo's offerings at e3. New 1st party titles that will be worth while.

Hoping that Valve actually creates and releases the steam box, as well. That will be awesome not only for console gamers, but huge for PC gamers as well.

Uh, isn't that what Steam is?

I don't get it, what's with the endless hard-on everyone has for Valve and their Steam Box?  Consoles are dying except for this new console that hasn't come out yet.  Streaming is a terrible idea except that Valve is going to do it soon.  DRM is the devil and I'll never deal with a company that uses it, except for Valve.

Can we at least wait to see what how the little Steam Box actually does in reality before we make grand proclamations about it?  For all their faults, XBOX and PSN have been running and delivering games for years.  Steam seems to be popular with the PC gamers merely because of the cheap deals they have from time to time.

steam is popular on PC's because it offers the best user experience atm, sales opened the doors to the masses and made investing in a gaming PC worth it for many sure, but it's the overall service in the end that matters

as for DRM, there are two things going on here: 1) for pc users it really boils down to trust-factor and convenience: "does your DRM get in the way of me enjoying the game?" is the issue in the end, some games do it well, some don't it really is that simple and 2) for console users DRM is alien and completely destroys the way the market has functioned for the most part so far, so for them it's basically flipping their entertainment of choice on its head... can't blame them either, it took 5-6 ...


Not as much of a stretch as you may think.
Both systems have had the the ability to buy current gen games online without a physicial copy for the last few years. This would just be an increase in that side of the equation.

It'll take 1 more revision until they remove the BD player from the box entirely I suppose. Bandwidth just isn't there yet.
 
2013-02-21 10:30:58 AM

RoxtarRyan: Beerguy: RoxtarRyan: Beerguy: The Steam Box will conquer all!

You may wan't to do some research.

The Steam Box will allow you to access any of the controller enabled games that ARE ALREADY ON YOUR STEAM ACCOUNT so that you can play them on your T.V.

...This offers nothing that my PC already does, and seems like a cheap cash grab by Valve.


With the added bonus that they won't be getting any sales from games that have already been purchased for the PC. They'll essentially be starting at zero. Or even minus one as if you already enjoy steam then effectively it comes bundled with games.

Given that hardware is (in the early stages) sold at a loss, the games and attach rate are hugely important in how the machine does financially.
 
2013-02-21 10:31:59 AM

KingPsyz: Funny thing is, the Steam network is so popular because it basically brought PSN/Marketplace to PC...


pretty sure steam started offering full-size games to download years before PSN/Marketplace

also, that's an insult to steam since both marketplace and PSN suck as stores comparatively

rpm: AdamK: 2) for console users DRM is alien

It's the exact opposite of alien. Consoles are one freaking big dongle. Online DRM is common on consoles too - limited installs, need to be signed in (on non-native console), one console only playing and bound to a user (Bionic Commando).


when it comes to where most dollars get spent on consoles, it's still not common or accepted
 
2013-02-21 10:42:30 AM

AdamK: KingPsyz: Funny thing is, the Steam network is so popular because it basically brought PSN/Marketplace to PC...

pretty sure steam started offering full-size games to download years before PSN/Marketplace


If by years you mean the same year Playstation Store went online, then yes.

Before then the only thing Steam was used for was to download Counterstrike.
 
2013-02-21 10:45:35 AM

theurge14: AdamK: KingPsyz: Funny thing is, the Steam network is so popular because it basically brought PSN/Marketplace to PC...

pretty sure steam started offering full-size games to download years before PSN/Marketplace

If by years you mean the same year Playstation Store went online, then yes.

Before then the only thing Steam was used for was to download Counterstrike.


uh, the year the playstation store went online it had flow... after a year it had a few more games like super stardust hd, calling all cars, and that sixaxis bowling game

even wiiware blew that shiat store out of the water, PSN store wasn't worth it until 2009, i would know i bought a ps3 after it launched
 
2013-02-21 10:46:26 AM
I'll probably get one. I skipped out on the PS1-3 in favor of Microsoft and Nintendo, so nows the time to get in on the Sony exclusives, and being able to stream all the old games I missed will be nice, plus all the new titles. And it will give me more uses for my PS Vita, which I actually enjoy despite the lack of games.

Now it's Microsoft's turn to impress me
 
2013-02-21 10:52:51 AM

AdamK: theurge14: AdamK: KingPsyz:

even wiiware blew that shiat store out of the water, PSN store wasn't worth it until 2009, i would know i bought a ps3 after it launched


I think Steam and PSN are both fine nowadays. But wiiware was and still is garbage. I bought a wii launch day and there's been about 3 games for wiiware of interest, and several like World of Goo were ports. The wii VC games are nice but subject to all the same whining everyone upthread has about PS3 streaming, "arg I gotta pay for this again!"

Although Ntendo made a boatload of cash, so at some level Sony has to look at that and say "maybe geek forum posters will throw shiat at this, but for average joe there's money to be made" and whatever beans they counted made that more attractive than including Cell architecture in every PS4.
 
rpm
2013-02-21 10:55:24 AM

AdamK: when it comes to where most dollars get spent on consoles, it's still not common or accepted


What part of "the console is a dongle" did you not get? The whole thing is DRM, that's the POINT of a console from the manufacturer's view. (if it's not, please demonstrate where I can get games not approved by MS / Sony / Nintendo, without jailbreaking)

And where the dollars are spent? How many of those in the top 10 have online passes? (hint: the majority) That's DRM.
 
2013-02-21 11:03:36 AM

rpm: AdamK: when it comes to where most dollars get spent on consoles, it's still not common or accepted

What part of "the console is a dongle" did you not get? The whole thing is DRM, that's the POINT of a console from the manufacturer's view. (if it's not, please demonstrate where I can get games not approved by MS / Sony / Nintendo, without jailbreaking)

And where the dollars are spent? How many of those in the top 10 have online passes? (hint: the majority) That's DRM.


re: console is a dongle - because it's irrelevant to the consumer? what's next, windows is DRM because a game programmed for windows won't work on a mac even if it's pirated? is linux drm too?

the point is in the console market it's been accepted since the beginning of time that games that come on physical media are independent of the machine itself in such a manner as to allow buying/reselling/trading/borrowing/etc.

if DRM does not give consumers in a non-DRM dominated market a clear advantage, they won't buy it

DLC is DRM'd by default, but buying DLC does not lock you to said game, therefore it is not DRM to the actual game itself... for a lot of people, that's important
 
2013-02-21 11:14:03 AM
 
2013-02-21 11:18:05 AM

rpm: AdamK: when it comes to where most dollars get spent on consoles, it's still not common or accepted

What part of "the console is a dongle" did you not get? The whole thing is DRM, that's the POINT of a console from the manufacturer's view. (if it's not, please demonstrate where I can get games not approved by MS / Sony / Nintendo, without jailbreaking)

And where the dollars are spent? How many of those in the top 10 have online passes? (hint: the majority) That's DRM.


I think you're mixing DRM as "the family of things that could potentially be construed as controlling how a game is played" and what most people mean when they say DRM. A console is not "DRM" any more than an NES was "DRM" for cartridges or a Victrola was "DRM" for phonographs. You can still take your game to anyone else with that console and play it at their house or sell it to them. You can't do that with an online pass or a single-license game or something.

Claiming DRM is "the existence of a console that won't arbitrarily run universal software" is just expanding the definition to absurd scale. My digital watch is DRM, I can't load another counter script onto it! My microwave is DRM, why can't I load Linux and override the default buttons? Go read up on the video game crash of the 80s and the entire reason WHY Nintendo started limiting what could be published and companies like Ultra existed. Alternatively, look at the top 50 games on a mobile phone store and see if you really can't figure out why Sony/MSoft doesn't want the shelves at Gamestop to look like that.

When gamers complain about DRM on their PS3, they don't mean they can't play an xbox game on it. They mean they can't take the physical product and treat it on its face value. Arguing a console is a dongle is just sort of shouting a fact most people take as read and not making any new points out of it. You had it right with online passes and THAT will be how devs control used game sales in the future, THAT is what people complain about. The fact that Sony controls what games are published on their system is not in the same ballpark as EA controlling whether you get to play Dead Space online mode without a $15 pass for used games.
 
2013-02-21 11:23:12 AM

MayoSlather: gaspode: MayoSlather: msupf: And nothing revealed really appeals to me.

Sorry, I play games for my enjoyment, not for sharing videos of my gameplay with anyone/everyone. I could care less about the sharability of myself or my gameplay. I care about the quality of the game I play, and my ability to at least recoup some of the cost for a game that I am either done with or found lackluster compared to reviews or expectations (aliens: colonial marines, anyone?).

Lack of release date, pricing, or more detailed specs makes having your own press conference kind of pointless.

I couldn't help but think that Sony doesn't really understand their core audience by riding so heavy on the social aspects. Gamers have always leaned toward introversion, and here Sony is touting extrovert features.

I'm in the same boat, that not only do I not care about the sharing/spectating but it seems abhorrent. Gaming has always been about the games to me, and not about socializing.

You, and I, are hopelessly out of touch. Game recording boxes sell brilliantly.. my nephews and their mates watch thousands of videos of people playing games. It is a huge thing and only getting bigger.

Us '14 hour sessions with no human contact while we play a game end to end' folks are farking dinosaurs.

I disagree. Obviously there are people that record and share their gaming, but I wouldn't call it anything close to a majority. E.g. The last COD had to take extra measures to sell their theater mode because they found few people were actually using it, and that's a game based on the multiplayer experience.


They aren't the majority; but they are the future. This is a strategic move to build brand loyalty in the youth demographic. These new generations find video games socially acceptable.

/video games aren't just for introverts anymore
//hook'em young
 
2013-02-21 11:31:13 AM

jso2897: star_topology: Diablo 3 to PS4

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Yeah, I saw that while skimming the video. I don't get it. Why?


Blizzard: "Because fark you (PC) guys, that's why. Gots to make that cash"

/don't blame them, really
//Torchlight 2 is a better experience anyway
 
2013-02-21 11:34:33 AM

star_topology: jso2897: star_topology: Diablo 3 to PS4

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Yeah, I saw that while skimming the video. I don't get it. Why?

Blizzard: "Because fark you (PC) guys, that's why. Gots to make that cash"

/don't blame them, really
//Torchlight 2 is a better experience anyway


T2 is definitely better but Diablo 3 kind of killed the mood for those kinds of games, now people need a long break
 
2013-02-21 11:56:04 AM
Well... They certainly succeeded in making the Cell future-proof.
 
2013-02-21 12:03:28 PM

Yuri Futanari: Sinister Plans: miniflea: I've never been a playstation person, always was happy with my PC/Xbox/Nintendo whatever, but I'm seriously considering picking up a PS3 for Ni No Kuni and The Last of Us.

Ni No Kuni is AMAZING.

Sigh.

I really should pick that up.


Yes, you should.
 
2013-02-21 12:05:16 PM
The whole thing seems rushed to me.  Like they had to beat MS to the punch.  Just a few weeks ago the Sony folks were saying they were in no hurry and that MS could go first.  Nice misdirection on their part but the execution sucked.
 
2013-02-21 12:13:29 PM

rpm: Yuri Futanari: Thought it was a pre-rendered cinematic at first, but you can see the HUD.

Right, because you could never render a HUD into cinematics.

Treat everything shown as video until the games are actually out.


One of the blogs I was following said someone was up on stage playing the game.  True it could all be staged, but that's better than nothing.
 
2013-02-21 12:24:26 PM

RoxtarRyan: theurge14: I don't get it, what's with the endless hard-on everyone has for Valve and their Steam Box?

Thank farking Christ someone else sees this like I do. Yes, we all love Steam because they have kickass deals in the summertime and around Christmas... But farkin 'aye, some of these people remind me of Apple cult members, where they can do no wrong. "Why, yes, I already own a laptop, but why would I want to lug that around if I want to surf the net? I'll just pay another few hundred dollars for a crippled version of something I already own."

Shadowknight: It will be easier than lugging your system down, and you won't have to move your PC. Play on it or your TV, doesn't matter.

Anyone who has no idea how to set up a TV as a second monitor without the PC being right there next to it deserves to waste their money buying another computer.


I'll admit that I don't know how to set up a wireless second monitor  in regards to machine (and/or router?) capabilites and additional hardware necessary. Right now, I have two desktops (one new gaming rig and upgraded hp a1450n) in my family room hard-wired to our big screen (and router) so my son and I can coop steam over lan while in the same room. (I get stuck with desktop monitor naturally). Idk if the steambox would better fill the role of that old pc, but we'll see how it shapes out.

That said, Steam does have imo pretty good deals almost bi-weekly. I wish we could coop some games with my brother and his son (who have xboxes). Idk where, if at all, that's possible though.
 
rpm
2013-02-21 01:56:16 PM

Electromax: I think you're mixing DRM as "the family of things that could potentially be construed as controlling how a game is played" and what most people mean when they say DRM. A console is not "DRM" any more than an NES was "DRM" for cartridges or a Victrola was "DRM" for phonographs. You can still take your game to anyone else with that console and play it at their house or sell it to them. You can't do that with an online pass or a single-license game or something.


So what was the requirement for a "Sega" image in carts on the Genesis? The custom chips in NES? Atari suing Activision over 2600 carts? It's more than the form factor.

Can I make a backup disk before giving it to a toddler? No? Why not, even if my computer does have the hardware to burn BD or DVD?

Claiming DRM is "the existence of a console that won't arbitrarily run universal software"
I'm not saying universal, quit miscontruing my point. I don't expect a PS3 to run 360 software. I expect a disk with code written for the platform to be put in and run without the maker of the platform having any say about it. Anything that prevents that is DRM.
 
2013-02-21 02:14:22 PM

phoenixdan: echoshizzle: Hoping that Valve actually creates and releases the steam box, as well. That will be awesome not only for console gamers, but huge for PC gamers as well.

As soon as Valve releases Half Life 2 episode 3 I'll give a flying fark about Steambox. :)


And what makes you think they aren't saving that FOR the launch of the Steambox?
 
2013-02-21 02:23:53 PM

Earthen: phoenixdan: echoshizzle: Hoping that Valve actually creates and releases the steam box, as well. That will be awesome not only for console gamers, but huge for PC gamers as well.

As soon as Valve releases Half Life 2 episode 3 I'll give a flying fark about Steambox. :)

And what makes you think they aren't saving that FOR the launch of the Steambox?


tromoticons.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-21 03:02:28 PM

rpm: Electromax: I think you're mixing DRM as "the family of things that could potentially be construed as controlling how a game is played" and what most people mean when they say DRM. A console is not "DRM" any more than an NES was "DRM" for cartridges or a Victrola was "DRM" for phonographs. You can still take your game to anyone else with that console and play it at their house or sell it to them. You can't do that with an online pass or a single-license game or something.

So what was the requirement for a "Sega" image in carts on the Genesis? The custom chips in NES? Atari suing Activision over 2600 carts? It's more than the form factor.

Can I make a backup disk before giving it to a toddler? No? Why not, even if my computer does have the hardware to burn BD or DVD?

Claiming DRM is "the existence of a console that won't arbitrarily run universal software"
I'm not saying universal, quit miscontruing my point. I don't expect a PS3 to run 360 software. I expect a disk with code written for the platform to be put in and run without the maker of the platform having any say about it. Anything that prevents that is DRM.


From my understanding the original thread was, someone said console gamers aren't used to DRM ("alien"), you said the entire console is a form of DRM. I said you're mixing DRM in the sense of "anything that prevents [playing a disc with code for that platform]" with DRM in the sense that the other guy meant, "measures that prevent another owner of the console from playing a used copy of a game someone has resold." I had GTA4 on PC and it would constantly setting up GWFL, verification with Rockstar Online which it only connected to some of the time, and wasn't allowed to install it on my 2nd PC, so I shelved it and a year later got it for $8 used on PS3 and I started playing in about 2 minutes without any of that. I think it's fair to say that DRM like that is alien to many console gamers.

I am not looking to argue with you about what DRM is, because generally I would agree with you about consoles as a means of control, only that dude up there was talking about DRM in a more colloquial sense. If you see DRM as a more abstract concept then lots of things could be DRM.

I don't know the reference you mean with Sega and 2600 carts or whatever. I mentioned NES and Ultra as a response to you saying "please demonstrate where I can get games not approved by MS / Sony / Nintendo, without jailbreaking" merely as an observation that the approval systems originally weren't merely to tightly control the platform, but to mitigate the damage to the industry from shovelware like we see with mobile nowadays. A lot of the DRM you mentioned like Bionic Commando (I'm guessing) would be the decision of the developer, not Microsoft or whatever.

Wasn't intentionally misconstruing your point, sorry buddy.
 
2013-02-21 03:28:22 PM

Electromax: rpm: Electromax: I think you're mixing DRM as "the family of things that could potentially be construed as controlling how a game is played" and what most people mean when they say DRM. A console is not "DRM" any more than an NES was "DRM" for cartridges or a Victrola was "DRM" for phonographs. You can still take your game to anyone else with that console and play it at their house or sell it to them. You can't do that with an online pass or a single-license game or something.

So what was the requirement for a "Sega" image in carts on the Genesis? The custom chips in NES? Atari suing Activision over 2600 carts? It's more than the form factor.

Can I make a backup disk before giving it to a toddler? No? Why not, even if my computer does have the hardware to burn BD or DVD?

Claiming DRM is "the existence of a console that won't arbitrarily run universal software"
I'm not saying universal, quit miscontruing my point. I don't expect a PS3 to run 360 software. I expect a disk with code written for the platform to be put in and run without the maker of the platform having any say about it. Anything that prevents that is DRM.

From my understanding the original thread was, someone said console gamers aren't used to DRM ("alien"), you said the entire console is a form of DRM. I said you're mixing DRM in the sense of "anything that prevents [playing a disc with code for that platform]" with DRM in the sense that the other guy meant, "measures that prevent another owner of the console from playing a used copy of a game someone has resold." I had GTA4 on PC and it would constantly setting up GWFL, verification with Rockstar Online which it only connected to some of the time, and wasn't allowed to install it on my 2nd PC, so I shelved it and a year later got it for $8 used on PS3 and I started playing in about 2 minutes without any of that. I think it's fair to say that DRM like that is alien to many console gamers.

I am not looking to argue with you about what DRM is, becau ...


the argument was originally about why people accept Steam's DRM but can't accept similar DRM on consoles

TL;DR

Steam is the best possible result (currently) of a legacy of good and bad DRM on the PC

Console game consumers still expect any xbox game disc they buy to work on any xbox - independent of who bought the game or what microsoft thinks

therefore, PC DRM isn't compatible with the console market, regardless of what people think of Steam - expectations are not compatible yet
 
rpm
2013-02-21 04:00:01 PM

AdamK: therefore, PC DRM isn't compatible with the console market, regardless of what people think of Steam - expectations are not compatible yet


Really?
 
2013-02-21 04:18:26 PM

rpm: AdamK: therefore, PC DRM isn't compatible with the console market, regardless of what people think of Steam - expectations are not compatible yet

Really?


Interesting link. Would be fun to contrast that list with top selling disc-only games by volume, then by games available both digitally and physically. Not sure what to expect, but if those top XBLA games are all digital-only and consumers have no alternative it might be different than if you said "would you like castle crashers via XBLA or this shiny disc you can sell to Tony next month?".

Video games are quickly becoming a weird thing. Imagine someone describing these issues to a kid who just got home with Mario Bros. 3. Wonder what the VG landscape will look like in 20 more years.
 
2013-02-21 04:29:18 PM

FuryOfFirestorm: ParagonComplex: Nobody has mentioned Square-Enix announced a Final Fantasy game for the PS4.  If they did there would be the "PLEASE let it be a Final Fantasy VII remake, because that is the only way they are going to bring back the prestige of the series" and the "... who the fark cares anymore" people.

As long as people keep buying their overpriced mobile games and dozens of Kingdom Hearts spin-offs, SE isn't going to bother with remaking FFVII. Once the money dries up, you know they'll have that game out yesterday.


The Kingdom Hearts series has a special place in my heart, so I don't have a problem with those games. You're probably right about the FF7 remake. As far as they've fallen I'm sure they still realize the blockbuster goldmine a FF7 remake would bring them especially if they make it the way it was intended: resurrecting Aerith. At least give people the option. Those that have never played could let her die, and those that have played can see what should have been.
 
2013-02-21 06:28:41 PM

rpm: AdamK: therefore, PC DRM isn't compatible with the console market, regardless of what people think of Steam - expectations are not compatible yet

Really?


you're implying a $15 game = $60 game?
 
rpm
2013-02-21 06:38:48 PM

Electromax: Interesting link. Would be fun to contrast that list with top selling disc-only games by volume, then by games available both digitally and physically.


I'm not so sure that works so well with XBL, that might be more interesting on PSN. The "Games on Demand" is absurdly overpriced.
 
rpm
2013-02-21 06:40:15 PM

AdamK: rpm: AdamK: therefore, PC DRM isn't compatible with the console market, regardless of what people think of Steam - expectations are not compatible yet

Really?

you're implying a $15 game = $60 game?


Please tell me you're trolling and not really that dense.

It's digital distribution like Steam, and it's going up while traditional sales are going down. I'm not referring to the price at all.
 
2013-02-21 07:11:41 PM

rpm: AdamK: rpm: AdamK: therefore, PC DRM isn't compatible with the console market, regardless of what people think of Steam - expectations are not compatible yet

Really?

you're implying a $15 game = $60 game?

Please tell me you're trolling and not really that dense.

It's digital distribution like Steam, and it's going up while traditional sales are going down. I'm not referring to the price at all.


that's not really what we were even talking about, it was a discussion about PC DRM on consoles meaning no resell, no used games, a disc is locked to a console or DRM that locks games on accounts, etc. stuff that would push downloading full-sized games to the #1 spot on that list, ya know drastic changes in consumer behavior - not just people downloading games on the side
 
2013-02-22 08:09:19 AM

AdamK: rpm: AdamK: rpm: AdamK: therefore, PC DRM isn't compatible with the console market, regardless of what people think of Steam - expectations are not compatible yet

Really?

you're implying a $15 game = $60 game?

Please tell me you're trolling and not really that dense.

It's digital distribution like Steam, and it's going up while traditional sales are going down. I'm not referring to the price at all.

that's not really what we were even talking about, it was a discussion about PC DRM on consoles meaning no resell, no used games, a disc is locked to a console or DRM that locks games on accounts, etc. stuff that would push downloading full-sized games to the #1 spot on that list, ya know drastic changes in consumer behavior - not just people downloading games on the side


Just because the console games are the last stronghold of "software as an object" rather then "software as a license", it doesn't meant it won't crack sooner or later as well...and I think steam, minecraft on that live whatever, things like that are smashing those walls and perceptions pretty rapidly.
 
2013-02-22 08:18:01 PM
What are yall going to do when steam will eventually go out of business?
 
2013-02-22 11:59:01 PM

Shakin_Haitian: What are yall going to do when steam will eventually go out of business?


I for one will blow bubbles into my head's canister and reminisce about how much I liked steam until the 23rd century or so when they were taken over by something like EA or Activision and went the way of that company that sounds like lizzard.
 
Displayed 47 of 197 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report