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(Starburst Magazine)   Torchwood and Doctor Who writer explains amongst other things why Miracle Day was such a failure   (starburstmagazine.com) divider line 95
    More: Interesting, Miracle Day, Doctor Who, Torchwood, Chris Chibnall, Children of Earth, life on Mars, Julie Gardner  
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4406 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Feb 2013 at 2:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 05:57:23 PM
took this on the way to work today

img819.imageshack.us

looks like they had to go out and get real jobs...
 
2013-02-20 06:22:25 PM

Felgraf: johnnieconnie: What American TV Producers don't seem to get is that we LIKE British TV as is. You want to adapt one of their TV shows with American actors and no accents, ok, but don't drop everything about them and make them just like the mass-produced bs that is already airing.

For instance, see the current Sherlock Holmes: US version for details.

"Holy crap, this very cerebral and interesting BBC version of Sherlock is drawing in a lot of viewers!"

"Great! Let's take it, make it more actiony, and now Watson is Lucy Liu so Sherlock can have a romance interest!"

"What."


I read that "What" in the Tenth Doctor's voice.
 
2013-02-20 06:29:59 PM

gadian: I don't know what this insane person is going on about.  There was never any Torchwood after Children of the Earth.


^ ^ ^ ^
THIS
 
2013-02-20 06:39:25 PM
The story about Sherlock/Elementary that I heard was that the producers wanted to license Sherlock for America, but the Sherlock people said "Hell, no!"

So, now the producers still wanted to do a Sherlocky show, but they had to be careful to not step over the BBC version for fear of outright copying. Creatively, who knows what changes CBS would've made to Sherlock anyway to "Americanize" it...probably if nothing else, going with a female Holmes seems like an obvious choice.
 
2013-02-20 06:50:32 PM
Miracle Day? There was no Miracle Day. It was all an hallucination experienced by Gwen as she gave birth. And when she wakes up, she's going to divorce Rhys, watch her baby grow at an accelerated rate and then fly off into space, and then help Jack re-form the team with Martha & Mickey Smith, Sara Jane's kid, a deviant human-loving Dalek named Bob, and Ace, whose specialty is finding aliens and blowing them the f♥ck up with Nitro-9 (and we later find out she can also regenerate, thanks to the Doctor's influence on her career path-- which will remain mysterious until she remembers what happened to her on Gallifrey.)

And they'll go back to dealing with alien threats while having interesting personal lives.

But there was no damn Miracle Day.
 
2013-02-20 06:53:05 PM

rickycal78: Pacing sucked. The way things on the show went they could easily have gone the route of Children Of Earth and did 4-5 episodes and done.


5. Agree strongly

rickycal78: Speaking of filler, serial killer guy.


5. Agree strongly

rickycal78: The interesting characters were killed off and the shiat characters lived...again. This seems to be a theme throughout Torchwood's entire run, not just MD. Suzie, Owen, Tosh, Ianto, all were interesting characters, all killed off, yet boring whiny Gwen left to live another day. Same with MD. The doctor lady was about the only interesting character of the bunch, so of course she was killed early on. Rex, the most one dimensional character in existence of course gets to live another day with a bonus. I will say that they at least managed to make Gwen a bit more interesting with her having gone into hiding with her child and husband after the events of COE.


5. Agree Strongly

rickycal78: Then there's the premise of the entire show. I can't recall the specific episode or episodes from TW or Dr.W, but i seem to recall it being stated that Capt. Jack's immortality didn't have anything to do with his blood or even his physiology, but due to Rose having what amounted to magical powers making him immortal. Now all the sudden his blood can turn people immortal? I'm not just talking about the method used to create miracle day, I'm talking about Rex at the end.


11. OMFG THIS! They broke the rules of their own universe. Jack is immortal because Rose made him a fixed point in time. His body is permanently stuck in the condition it was in when Rose resurrected him. It has nothing to do with his blood. Oh but then they made it ALL about his blood, and they made Rex immortal now because of the blood transfusion.

i650.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-20 07:02:13 PM
FTFA "Was Sarah Jane ever on your to-do list?"

Well, I know she's on mine!

/Really missed a chance at a classic British "nudge-nudge wink-wink" there, didn't he?
 
2013-02-20 07:06:01 PM
Based on Miracle Day, I really hope this is the end for Torchwood.  If there's going to be another series, it's still going to be on Starz and thus it'll suck harder than Miracle Day did.

Miracle Day was just too long, not enough snarky and charming Jack, too much of that CIA dude, too much Gwen, too much in your face sex, too much of everything except what made the show great.  The best thing about that series, ironically, was Jack forcing that dude's head down for a blowjob.  That was just hilarious for some reason.

Torchwood will never go back to how it was for Series 1 & 2 so I say let it die.
 
2013-02-20 07:17:55 PM

ristst: The wife and I watched it, and we both thought it was decent enough.

And Gwen still has teh nice rack.


oy! eyes front soldier

i230.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-20 07:30:25 PM
A failure?  I thought it was good.  After all, I've never heard of a story about the entire planet being immortal.  Sure, there were some liberties taken, but this is the Dr. Who universe.  The ending was meh, but whatever.

I hate RTD's version of Dr Who with extreme prejudice (see: ending to Last of the Time Lords), but he seems to be able to handle Torchwood pretty well.  One problem I have is Capt Jack's supposed bisexuality when all he fraks are guys.  (Yes, I know the actor is gay, but it's called acting...  Hell, none of the actors in Six Feet Under were gay in RL, either.)
 
2013-02-20 07:35:51 PM
Spoilers:


i230.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-20 07:58:43 PM

NYRBill: ristst: The wife and I watched it, and we both thought it was decent enough.

And Gwen still has teh nice rack.

oy! eyes front soldier

[i230.photobucket.com image 340x512]


I dunno what it is about her ( I mean besides her tits), but she's one of those people where sometimes she seems hot as hell, and others she just looks plain and kind of annoying.
 
2013-02-20 08:20:40 PM

rickycal78: I dunno what it is about her ( I mean besides her tits), but she's one of those people where sometimes she seems hot as hell, and others she just looks plain and kind of annoying.


It's the teeth.  Goddamn her teeth are so British.
 
2013-02-20 08:21:06 PM
I'm still mad at how they treated Bill Pullman's character.  You could tell he was having trouble with it.
 
2013-02-20 08:25:12 PM
As a viewer, I can say that it SUCKED because

1. Too many cultural clashes. Yes Britain. Even your fizzy lemonade is FARRR superior to our flat-ass inferior Yank lemonade. Fine!

2. Gay, gay gay. More gay! Scotty: "I don think deh engines can 'andle any more gay, cappin!". Scotty it has to!!

3. Torchwood outside of Cardiff was crap. Just crap.
 
2013-02-20 08:28:59 PM

Odoriferous Queef: Felgraf: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: I think the example you were looking for was Coupling and/or Red Dwarf.

I forgot there even was an American version of Red Dwarf, actually.

/The American version of Who's Line was pretty good, though!

Every time American T.V. gets a hold of a Brit show they fsck it up.
Coupling - Brilliant.  American version - Wombat Feltcher.
Top Gear - Brilliant, American version - Molests small woodland creatures.
Red Dwarf - Cannot get my comments through the profanity filter.

Who's Line - I believe this show made it because Drew had enough clout to assemble a team of his choosing with out the 'merican Television jackasses interfering to the point of ruin as they have done with every other Brit show.

/Rant over,


You know, I biatched about Top Gear US when it came on, but I came to two realizations.

1: It's gotten much better as they've gained experience, much like TG:UK - and their first two seasons weren't all that good. Try watching Season 1 now.

There are versions of TG, in Germany and Australia, and they're fine, and so is ours.
 
2013-02-20 08:31:00 PM
Shoulda been 5 parts instead of 10, spent the first half of the season introducing the new characters and the show in general to american audiences. Should have hit the ground running.

It wasnt terrible, i mean did you guys see The Event? Or V? Sci-Fi TV in general is in a real bad place right now with a few exceptions, Miracle day didnt suck, but it wasnt Children of Earth either, which ranks among some of the finest sci-fi television ever
 
2013-02-20 08:33:07 PM

Elzar: Still haven't seen Miracle Day yet - is it even out on Netflix? Love me some Captain Jack, but I suspected prior to season 4 that US audiences wouldn't be as down for as much of the gay... sad, but so it goes.


It was, for about a week a year or so ago.  I saw the first part of the first episode before I dozed off...


The only Torchwood episode I REALLY hate is "Countrycide".  They all acted like retarded ape children and they ALL should've died (permanently) during that one.

Also not a fan of the "rat jam" scene...

Otherwise, I love Torchwood.
 
2013-02-20 09:14:20 PM
Only three shows have ever successfully made the transition from US versions: 1. Whose Line, 2. the first few seasons of The Office, 3. Veep (which doesn't really count as it's not a direct copy of The Thick of It and is run by the same guy anyway), and 4. House of Cards. Oh, and Antiques Roadshow.

Oh and holy crap...All in the Family? You learn something new every day.
 
2013-02-20 09:14:59 PM
Erp,  to US versions.
 
2013-02-20 09:15:19 PM

NeoCortex42: Elzar: Still haven't seen Miracle Day yet - is it even out on Netflix? Love me some Captain Jack, but I suspected prior to season 4 that US audiences wouldn't be as down for as much of the gay... sad, but so it goes.

One problem with Miracle Day is that they made Jack simply gay.  Back in Doctor Who, Jack didn't care if it was male/female/human/whatever.  For most of the series, it just didn't really seem like the same Jack Harkness to be honest.


I can't even imagine Jack as gay. He is multi-sexual. Omni-sexual. Not being a big Torchwood fan, I'll pass on anything that takes away Jack's endearing freaky.
 
2013-02-20 09:36:20 PM

johnnieconnie: Cuthbert Allgood: Meh, it was fine.

//Better than any Downton Abbey after season 1...

Wrong. All seasons of Downton Abbey are better than Miracle Day. And I say that as a fan of both (Miracle Day should have been better than it was).

/afraid to see Downton remade as American series *shudder*


"Whitney" meets "New Girl".
 
2013-02-20 09:55:13 PM

cptrios: Only three shows have ever successfully made the transition from US versions: 1. Whose Line, 2. the first few seasons of The Office, 3. Veep (which doesn't really count as it's not a direct copy of The Thick of It and is run by the same guy anyway), and 4. House of Cards. Oh, and Antiques Roadshow.

Oh and holy crap...All in the Family? You learn something new every day.


All in the Family, Sanford and Son, and Three's Company were all based on successful British shows.
 
2013-02-20 10:13:25 PM
I like elementary way better than sherlock.

I dont know what it is but Benedict Cumberbatch annoys the daylights out of me and i find the show gets bogged down while it trys to make itself feel moody.

I didnt like it. I'm not a big fan of elementary either but i would watch an episode twice over before sherlock.
 
2013-02-20 10:17:58 PM
And whos line america was only good because Ryan Styles, Colin Mockery, and Greg Froops were great together and they really could gel and see where eachother wanted to go with a sketch.

Wayne Brady is very talented and quick but not quite as funny.

Styles and Colin especially kept that show worthwhile.
 
2013-02-20 10:31:07 PM

FirstNationalBastard: cptrios: Only three shows have ever successfully made the transition from US versions: 1. Whose Line, 2. the first few seasons of The Office, 3. Veep (which doesn't really count as it's not a direct copy of The Thick of It and is run by the same guy anyway), and 4. House of Cards. Oh, and Antiques Roadshow.

Oh and holy crap...All in the Family? You learn something new every day.

All in the Family, Sanford and Son, and Three's Company were all based on successful British shows.


no way is that true Dummy
 
2013-02-20 10:49:41 PM

FirstNationalBastard: cptrios: Only three shows have ever successfully made the transition from US versions: 1. Whose Line, 2. the first few seasons of The Office, 3. Veep (which doesn't really count as it's not a direct copy of The Thick of It and is run by the same guy anyway), and 4. House of Cards. Oh, and Antiques Roadshow.

Oh and holy crap...All in the Family? You learn something new every day.

All in the Family, Sanford and Son, and Three's Company were all based on successful British shows.


Yeah, and Three's Company was arguably better in the US version than they original "Man About The House" in the U.K.. It's all about the actors in that one, and John Ritter MADE that show in the States.

As for House of Cards, I've watched the entire Netflix series (and LOVED it) and now I'm trying to watch the British version, and I'm a bit bored. I usually prefer British television to American shows, but in the case of House of Cards it just feels too dated and self-aware, in the bad way. I know a lot of people prefer the British version to the Kevin Spacey American version, but I just can't agree with this one.

However, the American version of Red Dwarf is an atrocity. It's vile. It is also guilty of a gross misuse of Terry Farrell. The American Red Dwarf script actually managed to render Robert Llewellyn unfunny. A terrible crime.

And on the Red Dwarf note, I have to say that the recent series/season really pulled their asses out of the fire. It was good!
 
2013-02-20 10:50:41 PM

NYRBill: FirstNationalBastard: cptrios: Only three shows have ever successfully made the transition from US versions: 1. Whose Line, 2. the first few seasons of The Office, 3. Veep (which doesn't really count as it's not a direct copy of The Thick of It and is run by the same guy anyway), and 4. House of Cards. Oh, and Antiques Roadshow.

Oh and holy crap...All in the Family? You learn something new every day.

All in the Family, Sanford and Son, and Three's Company were all based on successful British shows.

no way is that true Dummy


I assume sarcasm, but just in case if any of you have ever seen Steptoe & Son, it's funny but not as funny as the American version, and I think Redd Foxx has a certain unique presence.
 
2013-02-20 10:57:03 PM

snowshovel: The story about Sherlock/Elementary that I heard was that the producers wanted to license Sherlock for America, but the Sherlock people said "Hell, no!"

So, now the producers still wanted to do a Sherlocky show, but they had to be careful to not step over the BBC version for fear of outright copying. Creatively, who knows what changes CBS would've made to Sherlock anyway to "Americanize" it...probably if nothing else, going with a female Holmes seems like an obvious choice.


That directly rips off the Arrow/Caliber comic book,  Baker Street, which features a "female Sherlock" and Holmes (an American student!) in the punk 1980s era. Very cool. I always though it would have made a good TV series. Especially considering some of the twists and turns the series took.

media.comicvine.com
 
2013-02-20 11:16:59 PM
It was Americanized.

It wasn't as good as the first two seasons

but the thing that ruined it is that farking idiot blonde chick. Tremble voice. That's all she did. We were supposed to sympathize with her, but all I wanted to do was smack her in the face. Boring, yet in no way benign. How do you even do that?

I'd like it on record that I still enjoyed it though.
 
2013-02-20 11:49:00 PM
You knew about three episodes in that it was going to suck. The premise was good but around the third episode you knew they were just going to drag it out. I kept hoping for a payoff...but it never came. Trying to show how the world would react was interesting but they seemed to forget about all the problems after each episode. They mentioned this and that would be a major issue, a couple months would pass, and you never saw anything related to those problems.

Then to have the end be this weird living thing going through the planet that some how needed Jack's blood or whatever and....I don't even remember the specifics anymore. What a stupid ending.
 
2013-02-20 11:50:45 PM
Chris Chibnall is an ass and a hack and his episodes of Doctor Who(Hungry Earth, Cold Blood, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, The Power of Three, and 42) are my 2nd most disliked next to Matthew Graham (Rebel Flesh, The Almost People, and Fear Her).

shiat writing.
 
2013-02-21 12:57:50 AM
Didn't RTFA
But does the explanation include the fact that it was a 5 episode arc stretched into 10 episodes?
 
2013-02-21 01:45:14 AM
I watched the first episode of Miracle Day and couldn't be bothered to watch the rest.  Judging by the hate in this thread, I made the right choice.
 
2013-02-21 02:12:42 AM

FirstNationalBastard: cptrios: Only three shows have ever successfully made the transition from US versions: 1. Whose Line, 2. the first few seasons of The Office, 3. Veep (which doesn't really count as it's not a direct copy of The Thick of It and is run by the same guy anyway), and 4. House of Cards. Oh, and Antiques Roadshow.

Oh and holy crap...All in the Family? You learn something new every day.

All in the Family, Sanford and Son, and Three's Company were all based on successful British shows.


Heh...puts "I'm coming, Elizabeth!" in a slightly different light.
 
mjl
2013-02-21 06:20:23 AM
I watched the prewatershed  version of series 2 with my son who was then about 10.  His sage comment on the series?

There was too much kissing.... particularly between the men
 
2013-02-21 06:26:42 AM
I haven't seen Miracle Day yet, so tell me, is it worse than the Doctor Who episode with the concrete tile cocksucker?
 
2013-02-21 06:36:31 AM

turboke: I haven't seen Miracle Day yet, so tell me, is it worse than the Doctor Who episode with the concrete tile cocksucker?


That's no way to talk about Rose.
 
2013-02-21 06:36:49 AM

turboke: I haven't seen Miracle Day yet, so tell me, is it worse than the Doctor Who episode with the concrete tile cocksucker?


Yes.
 
2013-02-21 07:21:28 AM

Odoriferous Queef: Felgraf: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: I think the example you were looking for was Coupling and/or Red Dwarf.

I forgot there even was an American version of Red Dwarf, actually.

/The American version of Who's Line was pretty good, though!

Every time American T.V. gets a hold of a Brit show they fsck it up.
Coupling - Brilliant.  American version - Wombat Feltcher.
Top Gear - Brilliant, American version - Molests small woodland creatures.
Red Dwarf - Cannot get my comments through the profanity filter.

Who's Line - I believe this show made it because Drew had enough clout to assemble a team of his choosing with out the 'merican Television jackasses interfering to the point of ruin as they have done with every other Brit show.

/Rant over,


Not EVERY time, just most of the time.  Some of the times it's a work of genius.

/But 95% of everything is crap anyway...
 
2013-02-21 07:23:08 AM
and if that last post had worked, you would have seen a picture of Edith and Archie Bunker as an example of a Brit show done right.
 
2013-02-21 08:37:22 AM

Public Call Box: Not EVERY time, just most of the time. Some of the times it's a work of genius.


It's all about understanding the essence of the show.

If the show is essentially British, if it turns on uniquely British awkward social interactions and stilted emotions and the vestigial British class structure, there's no Americanization of it that could work.

If the show deals with essential human nature, it is possible to successfully Americanize it, as shows like Sanford and Son or Three's Company demonstrate.

Probably the hardest shows to translate are the ones where the essential nature is obscured by the superficial setting, for instance Life On Mars. The adapter has to really understand what the essence of the show is, beyond the distraction of surface appearance, and then build up a corresponding world on that base, rather than purely trying to map one to one. House of Cards fits that mold too: it could probably be successfully set in many countries or periods, such as the last days of the Roman Empire, or during the Medici papacies (House of Cardinals?).
 
2013-02-21 08:39:10 AM

gadian: turboke: I haven't seen Miracle Day yet, so tell me, is it worse than the Doctor Who episode with the concrete tile cocksucker?

Yes.


No it's not.  That's a very cruel thing to say.  You should be ashamed.

I remember seeing that episode and thinking "Yes, this is EXACTLY why I hate, with the passion of a thousand suns, RTD's direction with Dr. Who."  Holy crap he is over the top with the epic cheese and B-grade writing.  Dr. Who is not supposed to be like that.
 
2013-02-21 07:07:21 PM
the thing that annoyed me with Miracle Day was that it started out good (spoilers)

Gwen getting attacked by the chopper and Jack showing up with a rocket launcher, saving the day. They were the only two left so it's not odd that he was keeping an eye on her. Fewer episodes would have cut some of the fat and that would have helped but probably not enough.
I also didn't like how as the entire series went on Jack became "gay" instead of "try-sexual" like he was in DW
"Jack! that's a poodle!" "51st century pheromones" and all that
 
2013-02-22 04:10:36 PM

MadSkillz: Chris Chibnall is an ass and a hack and his episodes of Doctor Who(Hungry Earth, Cold Blood, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, The Power of Three, and 42) are my 2nd most disliked next to Matthew Graham (Rebel Flesh, The Almost People, and Fear Her).

shiat writing.


He definitely runs hot and cold, but keep in mind he also wrote Torchwood eps Day One, Adrift, Fragments and Exit Wounds. Fragments is probably my favorite single ep of TW.
 
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