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(Science World Report)   Scientists discover that men are from Mars, women are from planet Oh God Why Are You Still Talking, Sweet Jesus Do You Ever Get to the Point   (scienceworldreport.com) divider line 553
    More: Interesting, get to the point, The Journal of Neuroscience, scientists  
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13461 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 3:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 01:32:43 PM
Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, this past Sunday evening:

Wife: Jen wants to bra shopping. Maybe at Nordys.
Me: Nordys?
Wife: Nordstroms.
Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not

Monday afternoon
Wife: I'll head straight home after work.
Me: OK, as opposed to?
Wife: Going bra shopping
Me: didnt realize you had made a plan to that
Wife: i mentioned that yesterday. about going with Jen
Me: I know, you mentioned it, didn't know you had planned to do so today
Wife: well, no matter. it's not happening.
Me: OK
 
2013-02-20 01:53:58 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not


That right there is my favorite part of talking to a woman, where you bring up a point or a clarification, there's no acknowledgement of it - maybe an arched eyebrow at most - then she jumps three pages down the script into the middle of whatever she was talking about beforehand. Every conversation ends up being a jumbled stream of consciousness where you have to put the chronological pieces together like you're farking Indiana Jones.
 
2013-02-20 01:54:13 PM
Article says women are better at small talk?  If the point at small talk is to say 20 gazillion words with no clear point and no single topic or direction then yes, women are great at small talk.  If the point is to kill time and actually learn something, men are better at small talk.

Here is a typical guy conversation:

Guy A: Hey GuyB what's up?
Guy B: Oh, just finished working on my water heater
Guy A: Oh, I couldn't fix mine, the dead hooker parts in my crawl space keep getting jammed up in there
Guy B: Yeah, you gotta be careful about that, here, let me show you how to optimize your central heating while still disposing of dead prostitutes
Guy A: Thanks GuyB, that will be very helpful

And now a typical Woman conversation:

WomanA: Hey WomanB, how are you today?
WomanB: I am great, I went shopping with WomanC and we bought 24 new shoes and after we bought the shoes we saw WomanD and WomanD is totally cheating on GuyB while he's working on the water heater and that's totally because she's a busybody biatch always wearing those tight sweaters and short skirts to work and I heard from WomanE that she had a nose job when she was a teenager, but you have to promise not to tell anyone, because I promised not to tell anyone when WomanE told me, oh and hey we should go to Burger King later even though we shouldn't because my thighs really don't need that but that Pilates class we started last week will burn it off and OH. MY. GOD. that instructor is so hot I want him to wear me like a pinky ring
 
2013-02-20 01:54:50 PM
www.phdcomics.com

Or, specifically in this article:
1. The average woman talks more than the average man.
2. Male rat pups cry more than female rat pups, and they have twice as much of the protein FOXP2.
3. In a study of 10 human children, the females had more of the FOXP2 protein than the males.

... which is translated as "we discovered the protein that causes adult women to talk more!"
 
2013-02-20 01:56:39 PM

Klippoklondike: Article says women are better at small talk?


No.
 
2013-02-20 02:00:51 PM
So you're saying that if I give her more of my man-protein, she'll yack less?
 
2013-02-20 02:02:15 PM

Theaetetus: Klippoklondike: Article says women are better at small talk?

No.


FTFA: "That said, the research also gives a reason for why women tend to be better at small talk."
 
2013-02-20 02:06:32 PM
images.wikia.com

Yep.
 
2013-02-20 02:11:00 PM

Klippoklondike: Theaetetus: Klippoklondike: Article says women are better at small talk?

No.

FTFA: "That said, the research also gives a reason for why women tend to be better at small talk."


And no, it doesn't. See above. Just because a journalist sucks doesn't mean you have to accept every word they said as gospel.
 
2013-02-20 02:12:45 PM

Theaetetus: Klippoklondike: Theaetetus: Klippoklondike: Article says women are better at small talk?

No.

FTFA: "That said, the research also gives a reason for why women tend to be better at small talk."

And no, it doesn't. See above. Just because a journalist sucks doesn't mean you have to accept every word they said as gospel.


I'm not arguing that woman are better at small talk, I am arguing that the article stated they are.  No biggy.
 
2013-02-20 02:19:01 PM

Klippoklondike: Theaetetus: Klippoklondike: Theaetetus: Klippoklondike: Article says women are better at small talk?

No.

FTFA: "That said, the research also gives a reason for why women tend to be better at small talk."

And no, it doesn't. See above. Just because a journalist sucks doesn't mean you have to accept every word they said as gospel.

I'm not arguing that woman are better at small talk, I am arguing that the article stated they are.  No biggy.


Indeed, your original post is pretty specific that you DON'T think women are better at small talk.
 
2013-02-20 02:23:58 PM

Klippoklondike: Theaetetus: Klippoklondike: Theaetetus: Klippoklondike: Article says women are better at small talk?

No.

FTFA: "That said, the research also gives a reason for why women tend to be better at small talk."

And no, it doesn't. See above. Just because a journalist sucks doesn't mean you have to accept every word they said as gospel.

I'm not arguing that woman are better at small talk, I am arguing that the article stated they are.  No biggy.


Eh. It's terrible journalism, with the gender thing thrown in to sell headlines. It got clicks here.
 
2013-02-20 02:25:29 PM
I'll communicate some extra protein to them - if you know what I mean...
 
2013-02-20 02:27:51 PM
Evolutionary specialization artifacts.

Primitive men used to leave the family and their settlements to go on hunts.   Sometimes they'd be long, and they had to develop the ability to orient themselves and identify signs and landmarks to find their way around and get back home.  Not much verbalization required, but men developed better spatial skills and sense of direction.

Primitive women bore and raised children.  They developer keener interpersonal intuition.  They had to understand the non verbal clues coming from infants.  They also spent more time in the settlements dealing with others, sometimes having to communicate in pre-lingual ways.  They developed more complex language skills.
 
2013-02-20 02:41:16 PM

Diogenes: Not much verbalization required, but men developed better spatial skills and sense of direction.


The verbalization that was required was also quite brief. "Look, mammoth" tended to lead to more kills than "Mammoth again? We had mammoth yesterday and the day before that, and you know I'm trying to fit into my new, cute wolf pelt for spring, and isn't it a little cold for this time of year? I talked to Thogette yesterday - oh, you know her - from the valley. They're so stuck up, I know, but Thogette said that the other day that her husband gave her a moose antler because he thought it was the winter equinox and they were like 'Excuse me? That is not how we celebrate the passing of the season in this cave.' So anyways, what was I talking about? Oh yeah..."

It's implied that the caveman in the second half of that story later died from a self-inflicted javelin wound to the head.
 
2013-02-20 02:43:14 PM

Diogenes: Evolutionary specialization artifacts.

Primitive men used to leave the family and their settlements to go on hunts.   Sometimes they'd be long, and they had to develop the ability to orient themselves and identify signs and landmarks to find their way around and get back home.  Not much verbalization required, but men developed better spatial skills and sense of direction.

Primitive women bore and raised children.  They developer keener interpersonal intuition.  They had to understand the non verbal clues coming from infants.  They also spent more time in the settlements dealing with others, sometimes having to communicate in pre-lingual ways.  They developed more complex language skills.


Cool story, bro. It's a shame that it's not necessarily supported by  archaeology.

See also:
A vast amount of ethnographic and archaeological evidence demonstrates that the sexual division of labor in which men hunt and women gather wild fruits and vegetables is an uncommon phenomenon among hunter-gatherers worldwide. Although most of the gathering is usually done by women, a society in which men completely abstained from gathering easily available plants has yet to be found. Generally women hunt the majority of the small game while men hunt the majority of the large and dangerous game, but there are quite a few documented exceptions to this general pattern. A study done on the  people of the  states: "About 85% of Philippine Aeta women hunt, and they hunt the same quarry as men. Aeta women hunt in groups and with dogs, and have a 31% success rate as opposed to 17% for men. Their rates are even better when they combine forces with men: mixed hunting groups have a full 41% success rate among the Aeta."

and:
And what's particularly intriguing in the report is the fact that of the 22 observed cases of spear-fashioning, only one involved an adult male. Thirteen were carried out by females. (The other cases involved young males.) The scientists suggest that female apes played an important role not only in the development of tools for crushing nuts and catching insects and other kinds of foraging, but also for hunting. Among our earliest ancestors, females might have spent some of their time spearing prey.

and:
The common view that males only hunt and females only gather is false, however. For example, Australian females do considerable hunting of small animals,40 while males in many foraging societies collect honey
and gather fruit.41 Among some net foragers, such as the Aka, men and women hunt together.42
 
2013-02-20 03:05:00 PM

Theaetetus: Cool story, bro. It's a shame that it's not necessarily supported by  archaeology.


What makes you think I was serious?   Too deadpan?
 
2013-02-20 03:07:51 PM
My wife thinks this is a reasonable way to impart information:

"So at work today (co-worker's name) comes up to me and starts telling me about the girl that sits next to her. Turns out she went to lunch with her friend and her friend and then they were talking about her and how she doesn't do any work, but after all of that she was talking to her boss and they all agreed that she needs to tell her that she isn't going to help her get her work done when she isn't doing anything to help her department when she has lots of time on her plate and could be asking her boss if she can do any project to help her department."

I want to find whoever first played this for my wife http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koZFca8AkT0 take that person to the seediest equipment rental store and shove said person into the most disused, poorly-maintained tree chipper available.
 
2013-02-20 03:15:20 PM

Diogenes: Theaetetus: Cool story, bro. It's a shame that it's not necessarily supported by  archaeology.

What makes you think I was serious?   Too deadpan?


Poe's law.
 
2013-02-20 03:16:57 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, this past Sunday evening:

Wife: Jen wants to bra shopping. Maybe at Nordys.
Me: Nordys?
Wife: Nordstroms.
Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not

Monday afternoon
Wife: I'll head straight home after work.
Me: OK, as opposed to?
Wife: Going bra shopping
Me: didnt realize you had made a plan to that
Wife: i mentioned that yesterday. about going with Jen
Me: I know, you mentioned it, didn't know you had planned to do so today
Wife: well, no matter. it's not happening.
Me: OK


Women know what they're doing.  This is done to keep men off balance and uncertain, giving them the upper hand.
 
2013-02-20 03:19:05 PM
My problems is with all the unrelated tangents, background data I don't need or want, and repetition of things I already know.
 
2013-02-20 03:24:42 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, this past Sunday evening:

Wife: Jen wants to bra shopping. Maybe at Nordys.
Me: Nordys?
Wife: Nordstroms.
Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not

Monday afternoon
Wife: I'll head straight home after work.
Me: OK, as opposed to?
Wife: Going bra shopping
Me: didnt realize you had made a plan to that
Wife: i mentioned that yesterday. about going with Jen
Me: I know, you mentioned it, didn't know you had planned to do so today
Wife: well, no matter. it's not happening.

I can't believe you don't listen to me. Why don't you love me? 
Me: OK What the hell?

FTFY
 
2013-02-20 03:27:23 PM
I was under the impression that ladies have to verbalize every single goddamn thought that pops into their pretty little heads lest their pretty little heads explode from said thought-storage issues?
I don't need some lab-coat squint to tell me that!
 
2013-02-20 03:29:28 PM
Scientists have discovered that women possess higher levels of a "language protein" in their brains, which could explain why females are so talkative.

Which would be fine, if they had higher levels of content.
 
2013-02-20 03:33:38 PM
Does this cover "I'm not interested in what you are saying even though you appear passionate about it so I'm going to interrupt you with the most meaningless boring story in history that is only peripherally related but all about me" situation...

Because I farking hate to be interrupted
 
2013-02-20 03:36:23 PM

JNowe: Scientists have discovered that women possess higher levels of a "language protein" in their brains, which could explain why females are so talkative.

Which would be fine, if they had higher levels of content.


There's plenty of content.  What we have here is a comprehension gap.
 
2013-02-20 03:37:08 PM
www.diabetesmine.com
 
2013-02-20 03:40:37 PM

prickly pete v2: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, this past Sunday evening:

Wife: Jen wants to bra shopping. Maybe at Nordys.
Me: Nordys?
Wife: Nordstroms.
Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not

Monday afternoon
Wife: I'll head straight home after work.
Me: OK, as opposed to?
Wife: Going bra shopping
Me: didnt realize you had made a plan to that
Wife: i mentioned that yesterday. about going with Jen
Me: I know, you mentioned it, didn't know you had planned to do so today
Wife: well, no matter. it's not happening. I can't believe you don't listen to me. Why don't you love me?
Me:
OK What the hell?

FTFY


So much this.
 
2013-02-20 03:42:25 PM

Ed Grubermann: My problems is with all the unrelated tangents, background data I don't need or want, and repetition of things I already know.


Men are just as bad at this. They're telling me a story and then:

"You know Dave, right. From Spindy's?"
"Uh, I don't think so..."
"Tall guy?"
"No."
"Wears a hat?"
"Doesn't matter...."
"He was friends with Lindsey?"
"Dude...."
 
2013-02-20 03:45:03 PM

Ed Grubermann: My problems is with all the unrelated tangents, background data I don't need or want, and repetition of things I already know.


An I the only guy in existence who has learned to 'shell' conversations? I just keep what I need, smile and nod at most of the rest, because it doesn't matter to me?

Course that's only vs females related to me (mother, aunts, etc). Could explain why I'm single. And can't get a date. Or maybe it's the 'hanging out with tons of old female relatives' thing.
 
2013-02-20 03:45:22 PM
Women run their mouths entirely too much, and the noise that comes out almost always is in the form of some pointless complaint.

Take my girlfriend, for instance. Always whining about something or another, or trying to tell me what to do. The other night, she insisted on having a big two hour fight over my leaving a towel on the counter while I was doing the dishes. What a waste of time, and what a horrible way to live -- some idiot complaining at you all day.

I tell you, this will be the last time I''' be foolish enough to throw my freedom away for some woman.
 
2013-02-20 03:46:49 PM
My wife doesn't talk so much as constantly verbalize whatever happens to be running through her head at any given time.

Emphasis on "constantly".
 
2013-02-20 03:47:36 PM
WTF is wrong with your wives?
 
2013-02-20 03:47:45 PM
Best Comment: "But is there a cure?"
 
2013-02-20 03:48:55 PM

Elegy: So you're saying that if I give her more of my man-protein, she'll yack less?


Yes.

Most females find it difficult to talk during the oral man-protein administration process.
 
2013-02-20 03:50:34 PM

Ed Grubermann: My problems is with all the unrelated tangents, background data I don't need or want, and repetition of things I already know.


This. Oh so very much this.

Her: "I've got something very important to tell you"
Me: "OK, what is it?"
15 minutes of constant talking (on her part) pass, and she still hasn't revealed what's so farking important

/I wish I was making this up
 
2013-02-20 03:52:00 PM
But is there a cure? -FTFA messages
 
2013-02-20 03:52:44 PM
i1151.photobucket.com
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
It's been six months
She hasn't shut up once
I've tried to explain
She's driving me insane

She won't even miss me when she's gone
And that's okay with me I'll cry later on

Talk to ya later-don't want to hear it again tonight
Talk to ya later-just save it for another guy
Talk to ya later-don't want to hear it again tonight
I'll just see you around
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
 
2013-02-20 03:52:47 PM
Just different communication styles. Although I tend to be more wary when she uses a much smaller number of words because it sounds evasive by comparison.

Her: So I ran into Martin the other day.
Me: Oh really?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Where?
Her: Bookstore.
Me: Okay. So did you guys talk?
Her: A little.
Me: Then he left?
Her: No, we got coffee.
Me: Oh.
Me: ...
Me: ...
Me: So what did you guys talk about?
Her: Nothing.
Me: ...
 
2013-02-20 03:53:06 PM

Dr.Zom: Ed Grubermann: My problems is with all the unrelated tangents, background data I don't need or want, and repetition of things I already know.

Men are just as bad at this. They're telling me a story and then:

"You know Dave, right. From Spindy's?"
"Uh, I don't think so..."
"Tall guy?"
"No."
"Wears a hat?"
"Doesn't matter...."
"He was friends with Lindsey?"
"Dude...."


My ready-line for this sort of thing:

Person: "You know Person X from Dept. Z?"
Me: "No, but don't let that stop the conversation."

99% of the time, the 'who' is irrelevant to the point of the content.   Unless it is 'Person X died' then it usually "well, he heard that Dept. Z and Dept. H were going to merge." <---- the real point.
 
2013-02-20 03:53:50 PM
I am going to teach a class. "How To Respond When Someone At Work Asks You How You Are 101."

Only accetable answer: "Fine, how are you?"

All other responses get an F.
 
2013-02-20 03:54:18 PM

YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?


they're wimmin?
 
2013-02-20 03:55:20 PM

SmackLT: Just different communication styles. Although I tend to be more wary when she uses a much smaller number of words because it sounds evasive by comparison.

Her: So I ran into Martin the other day.
Me: Oh really?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Where?
Her: Bookstore.
Me: Okay. So did you guys talk?
Her: A little.
Me: Then he left?
Her: No, we got coffee.
Me: Oh.
Me: ...
Me: ...
Me: So what did you guys talk about?
Her: Nothing.
Me: ...


Yeah..... she's doing Martin.
 
2013-02-20 03:55:46 PM
I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them
 
2013-02-20 03:56:49 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, this past Sunday evening:

Wife: Jen wants to bra shopping. Maybe at Nordys.
Me: Nordys?
Wife: Nordstroms.
Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not

Monday afternoon
Wife: I'll head straight home after work.
Me: OK, as opposed to?
Wife: Going bra shopping
Me: didnt realize you had made a plan to that
Wife: i mentioned that yesterday. about going with Jen
Me: I know, you mentioned it, didn't know you had planned to do so today
Wife: well, no matter. it's not happening.
Me: OK


Nordstroms? Soma is better.

Er, so I've heard.

/Don't judge me!
 
2013-02-20 03:56:49 PM
Same.  And then she gets pissed off when I go on auto pilot and just say "yes" to the same thing she has repeated to me 47 times in a farking row.
 
2013-02-20 03:56:56 PM
My GF likes to have conversations in her head which (apparently) she thinks I can hear (and sometimes DAYS before) and then when I don't know what the topic is I'm the one not listening.

Or
she'll start talking about something totally unrelated to the previous, though still ongoing to me, conversation. So now when I hear about that whore talking smack about other wimen in the office I'm thinking her daughter is a whore and cursing everyone out.
 
2013-02-20 03:57:17 PM
1) Leave work
2) Call wife
3) Tell her I'm on the way home
4) She starts talking and won't shut up
5) Drive 20 minutes home
6) Walk in door while wife is still talking
7) Wife gets pissed

Yay me.
 
2013-02-20 03:57:22 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them


I bet if you put the "most womanly" personality type side-by-side with you, most men wouldn't notice a difference (cuz there wouldn't be one of any significance).
 
2013-02-20 03:58:09 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them


As an ISTJ, I completely agree.
 
2013-02-20 03:58:30 PM
If you are a man, imagine all the time, thought and energy you put into dreaming about sex and scheming to get sex. Assume women have about the same energy levels and that they have practically no sex drive. All that energy has to go somewhere right?
 
2013-02-20 03:58:41 PM

Dirtybird971: My GF likes to have conversations in her head which (apparently) she thinks I can hear (and sometimes DAYS before) and then when I don't know what the topic is I'm the one not listening.

Or
she'll start talking about something totally unrelated to the previous, though still ongoing to me, conversation. So now when I hear about that whore talking smack about other wimen in the office I'm thinking her daughter is a whore and cursing everyone out.


Are you dating my wife?
 
2013-02-20 03:59:16 PM
Wake me when they have a pill to turn the biatch off.
 
2013-02-20 03:59:28 PM

hitlersbrain: If you are a man, imagine all the time, thought and energy you put into dreaming about sex and scheming to get sex. Assume women have about the same energy levels and that they have practically no sex drive. All that energy has to go somewhere right?


Imagine if you could harness all of that energy. The power of 1000 suns...
 
2013-02-20 03:59:56 PM

Theaetetus: males in many foraging societies collect honey


That's suicide.
 
2013-02-20 04:00:10 PM
Gender war thread.
 
2013-02-20 04:01:08 PM

YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?


lol, seriously. My wife just asks me to tell her something interesting in order to start a conversation about some current event, or perhaps something that happened during my day. Apparently these Farkers are getting their wives from the bimbo store...
 
2013-02-20 04:01:17 PM

hitlersbrain: If you are a man, imagine all the time, thought and energy you put into dreaming about sex and scheming to get sex. Assume women have about the same energy levels and that they have practically no sex drive. All that energy has to go somewhere right?


Would explain how stores that are dedicated entirely to scrapbooking stay in business.
 
2013-02-20 04:01:21 PM
I've honed the skill of ignoring what I don't want to hear by having the most insane woman co-worker.  Albeit, if there is a random dude that starts rambling at me;  you're also on the nod and smile regime.

/It helps being drunk a lot too.
 
2013-02-20 04:01:24 PM
I'm not sure I believe the "women talk more than men" research that was part of the premise here. [link]

It is shown that the widely held belief that women talk more than men is unsupported in the literature. Of the studies reviewed that examined mixed-sex interaction, the majority found either that men talked more than women, or that there was no difference between men and women in amount of talk.
 
2013-02-20 04:01:37 PM

doczoidberg: Women run their mouths entirely too much, and the noise that comes out almost always is in the form of some pointless complaint.

Take my girlfriend, for instance. Always whining about something or another, or trying to tell me what to do. The other night, she insisted on having a big two hour fight over my leaving a towel on the counter while I was doing the dishes. What a waste of time, and what a horrible way to live -- some idiot complaining at you all day.

I tell you, this will be the last time I''' be foolish enough to throw my freedom away for some woman.


I call b.s. on your entire answer because of that one phrase.
 
2013-02-20 04:01:39 PM
Do none of you have a wife filter? I don't even hear 80% of what my wife says at times.
 
2013-02-20 04:02:10 PM

SmackLT: Just different communication styles. Although I tend to be more wary when she uses a much smaller number of words because it sounds evasive by comparison.

Her: So I ran into Martin the other day.
Me: Oh really?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Where?
Her: Bookstore.
Me: Okay. So did you guys talk?
Her: A little.
Me: Then he left?
Her: No, we got coffee.
Me: Oh.
Me: ...
Me: ...
Me: So what did you guys talk about?
Her: Nothing.
Me: ...


She have him a blowjob in the parking lot.

My gf complains that I don't listen to her, which is true, but only because about 5% of what she says is relevant. If I didn't have to listen to two hours of why your mom left your sister's wedding early and how your other sister is now caught in the middle, maybe I'd remember when the 2 minutes you were telling me about what we needed from Home Depot.
 
2013-02-20 04:02:31 PM
My wife also has this unshakable belief that as long as I'm in the house, no matter what room I'm in or what's going on around her, that if she talks, I can somehow  hear her.

This morning: I'm in the downstairs shower, with the radio blasting. I finish, and walk upstairs...

Her: "Well???"
Me: "Well what?"
Her: "Weren't you listening to me???"
Me: ???
 
2013-02-20 04:02:40 PM
Sister and mother explain more than necessary, usually making full topic arcs for the descriptions... It's annoying and wastes time (bonus annoyance points if time is kinda slim)

/yet to have a girlfriend do as such, our at least until it's blatantly obvious
//also, part if this story is partly why I choose my username as such
 
2013-02-20 04:03:13 PM
At times I'm tempted to put a security camera in the kitchen so I could play back what she actually said, and not what she thought she said. But somehow that would backfire on me.
 
2013-02-20 04:03:20 PM
Common refrain, by me:

"Honey, can we please jump ahead to the part where you tell me the specific details about what we have to attend?"

Then I get to eat dinner by myself, which is allegedly a punishment.
 
2013-02-20 04:03:41 PM

Theaetetus: female apes played an important role not only in the development of tools for crushing nuts


Speech being their tool of choice.
 
2013-02-20 04:04:04 PM

ChrisDe: At times I'm tempted to put a security camera in the kitchen so I could play back what she actually said, and not what she thought she said. But somehow that would backfire on me.


I've fantasized about doing this as well. But yeah, it would almost certainly backfire.
 
2013-02-20 04:04:40 PM

TheOther: Theaetetus: female apes played an important role not only in the development of tools for crushing nuts

Speech being their tool of choice.


Or withholding sex from the male apes until they got their nuts.
 
2013-02-20 04:04:49 PM
My wife's pretty good, with the exception of repetition. Honey, after 2 times I am done. I love you anyway.
 
2013-02-20 04:05:05 PM
Sybarite:
Yep.

MmmHmmm.
*sips beer*


/Simple is good.
 
2013-02-20 04:05:14 PM
"You should do ~n before it gets cold"

"I will."

"No, you wont.  You say you will but you never finish anything."

"Didn't I do A,. B, B and all that other crap you asked about last  month?"

"Only because I nagged you."

"Are you sure?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean, cause and effect.  Have you tried NOT nagging me and seeing what happens?"

"You're not the only person who makes decisions in this family!"

"What's that got to do with anything?"

"Why are you so pigheaded?"

"Why do you have to try and convince me that without your foot up my ass, I couldn't tie my own shoes?"

"Whut UVER, you are so immature."

"Yes, that must be it."

"So are you going to do ~n?"

"*sigh*"
 
2013-02-20 04:06:10 PM

SuperChuck: Do none of you have a wife filter? I don't even hear 80% of what my wife says at times.


I've got one, but it seems to block out something like 95%. I obviously have it set too high.  Anyway, I do miss things that I do want to know like, "Where are you going?"  She comes in from the grocery store and I'll ask, "Where have you been?"  That's usually a bad question because I was (allegedly) told in advance. In my defense, my wife is set at an unusual high level of motormouth.  Even other women think her setting is off the chart.  So I have to compensate and get the occasional biatch-bites because I missed something.
 
2013-02-20 04:07:46 PM

WhippingBoy: My wife also has this unshakable belief that as long as I'm in the house, no matter what room I'm in or what's going on around her, that if she talks, I can somehow  hear her.

This morning: I'm in the downstairs shower, with the radio blasting. I finish, and walk upstairs...

Her: "Well???"
Me: "Well what?"
Her: "Weren't you listening to me???"
Me: ???


What the fark! I'll be in a separate room playing Black Ops with my head set on (and she knows I'm doing this) and then I'll hear a voice faintly in the background, and between games I'll realize it's her asking me something about bills.
 
2013-02-20 04:08:24 PM

kroonermanblack: Ed Grubermann: My problems is with all the unrelated tangents, background data I don't need or want, and repetition of things I already know.

An I the only guy in existence who has learned to 'shell' conversations? I just keep what I need, smile and nod at most of the rest, because it doesn't matter to me?

Course that's only vs females related to me (mother, aunts, etc). Could explain why I'm single. And can't get a date. Or maybe it's the 'hanging out with tons of old female relatives' thing.


My wife will yammer on and on about work - She teaches little kids music.  Let me show you all the farks I give about these kids:


I've learned to interject the occasional "uhh-huh, oh wow, really, oh her mother is a biatch..." as needed.  I know it sounds terrible  but I simply do not care about the happenings of her students.  When she wants to talk about other things that matter, I am all ears.
 
2013-02-20 04:08:30 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget. [followed by amusing example]


This can happen both ways, especially if you've been together a long time.  "Mrs. Eaton" and I both have episdoes where we think about telling the other something but forget to actually speak the words, then proceed under the mistaken belief that we talked about it.  On good days we do a reality check to see if there's been a foolish reliance on ESP powers, and on bad days we argue about it.
 
2013-02-20 04:08:42 PM

WhippingBoy: ChrisDe: At times I'm tempted to put a security camera in the kitchen so I could play back what she actually said, and not what she thought she said. But somehow that would backfire on me.

I've fantasized about doing this as well. But yeah, it would almost certainly backfire.


It's like thermodynamics. You cannot win.
 
2013-02-20 04:09:03 PM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: JNowe: Scientists have discovered that women possess higher levels of a "language protein" in their brains, which could explain why females are so talkative.

Which would be fine, if they had higher levels of content.

There's plenty of content.  What we have here is a comprehension gap.


The signal-to-noise ratio sucks.
 
2013-02-20 04:09:42 PM

Theaetetus: [www.phdcomics.com image 600x667]

Or, specifically in this article:
1. The average woman talks more than the average man. never farking shuts the fark up
2. Male rat pups cry more than female rat pups, and they have twice as much of the protein FOXP2.
3. In a study of 10 human children, the females had more of the FOXP2 protein than the males.

... which is translated as "we discovered the protein that causes adult women to talk more!" Never farking shut the fark up.


Fixed.
 
2013-02-20 04:10:15 PM

SmackLT: Just different communication styles. Although I tend to be more wary when she uses a much smaller number of words because it sounds evasive by comparison.

Her: So I ran into Martin the other day.
Me: Oh really?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Where?
Her: Bookstore.
Me: Okay. So did you guys talk?
Her: A little.
Me: Then he left?
Her: No, we got coffee.
Me: Oh.
Me: ...
Me: ...
Me: So what did you guys talk about?
Her: Nothing.
Me: ...


Yeah, she's letting Martin put it in her pooper, and she's enjoying it too!
 
2013-02-20 04:11:02 PM
You know, I was headed down to Kohl's with Jen, you remember Jen, she's the one whose husband was in that terrible accident? Not the one with the gap in her teeth, the one with the bright orange hair. Well, Jen is selling her brand new refrigerator and I was thinking we need a new refrigerator and she probably wouldn't ask that much for it considering how desperate they are for cash. Well anyway I think she's going to sell it to Kelly anyway, I was just wondering what you thought about it?

Oh-Oh! Wait, do you know where my thing is, for that stuff I make at Thanksgiving? The one with the handle? No, not that, the other....thing...It has a green handle. For the stuff I made the year before last- this is for that pumpkin stuff I made last thanksgiving. I'm not talking about that. ARE YOU GOING TO HELP ME LOOK FOR IT OR ARE YOU GOING TO WALK OUT OF THE ROOM AGAIN LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO?
 
2013-02-20 04:12:14 PM

WhippingBoy: ChrisDe: At times I'm tempted to put a security camera in the kitchen so I could play back what she actually said, and not what she thought she said. But somehow that would backfire on me.

I've fantasized about doing this as well. But yeah, it would almost certainly definitely backfire.


FTFY.
 
2013-02-20 04:12:20 PM
"Don't you 'yes dear' me!"

Oh, ffs.
 
2013-02-20 04:12:42 PM
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, brings terror to my soul like the words "So I was thinking..."

Those four little words are always followed by 30 minutes of disjointed, useless talking until it's revealed that we should, yet again, spend tens of thousands of dollars on some "project" that she's just thought up.
 
2013-02-20 04:13:05 PM
I am a corporate receptionist.

I'll come home from work and he'll ask, "How was your day?" and I can turn that one question into a 20-minute monologue with quotes, voice-overs and props. By the time I'm done he knows the name and physical make-up of everyone I encountered between 8am and 5pm, whether or not I like them, and how I think they impacted the emotional success of my day.

My husband is a firefighter.

He'll come home from work and I'll ask, "How was your day?" He'll answer: "House caught on fire. Guy died."
 
2013-02-20 04:13:44 PM
After reading this thread I can only conclude that most of us are married to the same woman.
 
2013-02-20 04:14:12 PM
Holy hell.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets the "we need to talk about stuff tonight" which turns into she'll talk, and i'll nod my head waiting for her to get to the point.  Meanwhile, the hour I had to relax between kids going to bed and my sleepy time gets sucked to oblivion.
 
2013-02-20 04:14:18 PM

Jument: WhippingBoy: ChrisDe: At times I'm tempted to put a security camera in the kitchen so I could play back what she actually said, and not what she thought she said. But somehow that would backfire on me.

I've fantasized about doing this as well. But yeah, it would almost certainly backfire.

It's like thermodynamics. You cannot win.


And who really wants video of their wife banging some dude on the kitchen counter? There was an unclean towel still on it!
 
2013-02-20 04:14:36 PM

Jument: After reading this thread I can only conclude that most of us are married to the same woman.


They're all the same woman, deep down inside.
 
2013-02-20 04:15:03 PM

omelete
Dirtybird971: My GF likes to have conversations in her head which (apparently) she thinks I can hear (and sometimes DAYS before) and then when I don't know what the topic is I'm the one not listening.

Or
she'll start talking about something totally unrelated to the previous, though still ongoing to me, conversation. So now when I hear about that whore talking smack about other wimen in the office I'm thinking her daughter is a whore and cursing everyone out.

Are you dating my wife?


It would be the only way I have a wife
 
2013-02-20 04:15:35 PM

TrixieDelite: I am a corporate receptionist.

I'll come home from work and he'll ask, "How was your day?" and I can turn that one question into a 20-minute monologue with quotes, voice-overs and props. By the time I'm done he knows the name and physical make-up of everyone I encountered between 8am and 5pm, whether or not I like them, and how I think they impacted the emotional success of my day.

My husband is a firefighter.

He'll come home from work and I'll ask, "How was your day?" He'll answer: "House caught on fire. Guy died."


That there is full of so much win!
 
2013-02-20 04:15:46 PM

SmackLT: Just different communication styles. Although I tend to be more wary when she uses a much smaller number of words because it sounds evasive by comparison.

Her: So I ran into Martin the other day.
Me: Oh really?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Where?
Her: Bookstore.
Me: Okay. So did you guys talk?
Her: A little.
Me: Then he left?
Her: No, we got coffee.
Me: Oh.
Me: ...
Me: ...
Me: So what did you guys talk about?
Her: Nothing. Yada yada yada
Me: ...


Is what she meant
 
2013-02-20 04:15:54 PM

hitlersbrain: If you are a man, imagine all the time, thought and energy you put into dreaming about sex and scheming to get sex. Assume women have about the same energy levels and that they have practically no sex drive. All that energy has to go somewhere right?


None of the women I've been in relationships with have had "practically no sex drive".  Unfortunately, they still won't shut up.  Sorry to blow your theory.
 
2013-02-20 04:17:37 PM
The other thing that drives me nuts is yes or no questions. I can ask one and I'm guaranteed to get a response of at least 20 words, half of which are not relevant to the question. All I want is "Yes" or "no". Why is that so hard?
 
2013-02-20 04:17:49 PM
Gf: Where's the Klondike bars?
Me: I don't know
Gf: Did you eat them all?
Me: I ate some, I'm not sure how many
Gf: Well they're all gone so you must have eaten all of them!
Me: Ok
Gf: I only had one!
Me: I'll stop by the store and get some more if you want
Gf: So now we have to make a special trip just for Klondike bars?? You'll just eat those too
Me: Isn't that what they're for?
Gf: They're for both of us!
Me: So eat them! It's not my fault you only ate one.
Gf: You know I'm dieting right now!
Me: ???
 
2013-02-20 04:17:56 PM

Pair-o-Dice: SmackLT: Just different communication styles. Although I tend to be more wary when she uses a much smaller number of words because it sounds evasive by comparison.

Her: So I ran into Martin the other day.
Me: Oh really?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Where?
Her: Bookstore.
Me: Okay. So did you guys talk?
Her: A little.
Me: Then he left?
Her: No, we got coffee.
Me: Oh.
Me: ...
Me: ...
Me: So what did you guys talk about?
Her: Nothing. Yada yada yada
Me: ...

Is what she meant


You yada yada'd over the best part!

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-20 04:18:02 PM

Theaetetus: [www.phdcomics.com image 600x667]

Or, specifically in this article:
1. The average woman talks more than the average man.
2. Male rat pups cry more than female rat pups, and they have twice as much of the protein FOXP2.
3. In a study of 10 human children, the females had more of the FOXP2 protein than the males.

... which is translated as "we discovered the protein that causes adult women to talk more!"


More like: "We have never once even  heard of linguistic anthropology, because social sciences are for LOOZERS!". Seriously, hard sciences have  got to STFU about soft sciences, because  social sciences occasionally find out shiat that makes you look like a retard, such as the current theory that's so secure it's taught to 101 students: Women and men have differing speech patterns because of cultural hardwiring. Unless you find a pattern that occurs in  multiple different cultures before globalization, you are  not looking at biology, you're looking at culture.

I love hard sciences, but occasionally I wonder if they're trying to parody themselves. Just because you can't measure social influence with decimal points doesn't mean social influence doesn't exist. It just means you need to figure out a different measurement.
 
2013-02-20 04:18:16 PM
Attention women, here is a list of topics of conversation men find uninteresting under all circumstances. If you want to talk about them call your girlfriends or your mother.

1. your friends (unless they are hot and/or slutty)
2. your relatives (unless they are going to die soon and leave us money)
3. your job (unless someone is harassing you and needs a nut punch)
4. anyone else's children or pets
5. your problems (unless you want us to solve them, are willing to listen to and accept our solution, and are willing to do the work to implement the solution)

The following times are inappropriate for conversation, in fact in these situations the only acceptable interaction is to quietly leave an open beer somewhere we can see you do it but without interrupting what we are doing.

1. when we are looking at a screen (tv, video game, phone, tablet, etc)
2. when we are reading
3. when we are fixing things
4. when our eyes are closed
5. when we are talking on the phone

Follow this advice for a happy relationship.
 
2013-02-20 04:18:28 PM

Dr.Zom: Ed Grubermann: My problems is with all the unrelated tangents, background data I don't need or want, and repetition of things I already know.

Men are just as bad at this. They're telling me a story and then:

"You know Dave, right. From Spindy's?"
"Uh, I don't think so..."
"Tall guy?"
"No."
"Wears a hat?"
"Doesn't matter...."
"He was friends with Lindsey?"
"Dude...."


Yep. This is how so many conversations with guys I have go. Move the HELL on. I don't know the guy/place/car/boobs. Just get to the damned story.
 
2013-02-20 04:18:42 PM
Early in our marriage on several occasions I told my wife to stop, I'd lost interest in whatever she was talking about because the story took too long. She was immeasurably hurt and sulked about it for quite awhile. I felt like an a-hole but it only took a couple of times and she became a much better story teller.

Now when she starts to go off target and starts giving inane details that I can tell have nothing to do with the story she's trying to tell, I'll start firing follow-up questions on these stupid details, forcing her in the direction of the tangent she was on to the point that she becomes frustrated and basically shouts "none of that is important, HERE IS WHAT MATTERS" and we get to the point. It's nice because it helps her course correct and it makes her think I'm really listening. The key here though is that they have to be the right kind of follow-up questions and they have to convey your confusion. You don't want to encourage her to get lost down the rabbit hole, you just want to demonstrate that her prattling on has completely derailed the story she was telling and you can no longer follow along.
 
2013-02-20 04:19:20 PM
If we need to make a simple functional phone call and time is short, "Mrs. Eaton" has me make the call, even though she likes talking on the phone and I don't.  Make that, because she likes talking on the phone and I don't.  She can take 20 minutes to ask if we should bring a salad to the potluck, and I'll do the same conversation in less than a minute.  Each of us is in awe of the other on this.
 
2013-02-20 04:19:29 PM

WhippingBoy: My wife also has this unshakable belief that as long as I'm in the house, no matter what room I'm in or what's going on around her, that if she talks, I can somehow  hear her.

This morning: I'm in the downstairs shower, with the radio blasting. I finish, and walk upstairs...

Her: "Well???"
Me: "Well what?"
Her: "Weren't you listening to me???"
Me: ???


My GF has that too.  "Did you really think I could hear you from <insert random number here> rooms away?" is something I say almost daily.
 
2013-02-20 04:19:42 PM

PanicAttack: my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them

As an ISTJ, I completely agree.


Another INTJ (male) here. I'm pretty sure that fark is filled with people with similar personality types, this opinion being based on over 10 years of lurking the threads. Introverted and extremely intelligent people tend to flock to this site.
I certainly feel like people don't "get" me, and it has caused me to be somewhat of a social outcast my entire life. On the plus side I usually win most arguments.
 
2013-02-20 04:19:47 PM

WhippingBoy: Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, brings terror to my soul like the words "So I was thinking..."

Those four little words are always followed by 30 minutes of disjointed, useless talking until it's revealed that we should, yet again, spend tens of thousands of dollars on some "project" that she's just thought up.


Thissity-this-this-this!  I actually told her so much last night, because I actually openly chuckled as soon as she said it.  Now, the tens of thousands of dollars part isn't accurate to us, because we're poor and she knows it, but yeah.

this.
 
2013-02-20 04:19:55 PM

TrixieDelite: I am a corporate receptionist.

I'll come home from work and he'll ask, "How was your day?" and I can turn that one question into a 20-minute monologue with quotes, voice-overs and props. By the time I'm done he knows the name and physical make-up of everyone I encountered between 8am and 5pm, whether or not I like them, and how I think they impacted the emotional success of my day.

My husband is a firefighter.

He'll come home from work and I'll ask, "How was your day?" He'll answer: "House caught on fire. Guy died."


In his defense, not that he needs it, but it's probably not so pleasant to talk about such things. Plus, when I come home, work is over. I don't want to talk about it anymore.
 
2013-02-20 04:19:59 PM

mama2tnt: doczoidberg: Women run their mouths entirely too much, and the noise that comes out almost always is in the form of some pointless complaint.

Take my girlfriend, for instance. Always whining about something or another, or trying to tell me what to do. The other night, she insisted on having a big two hour fight over my leaving a towel on the counter while I was doing the dishes. What a waste of time, and what a horrible way to live -- some idiot complaining at you all day.

I tell you, this will be the last time I''' be foolish enough to throw my freedom away for some woman.

I call b.s. on your entire answer because of that one phrase.



Damnit. You got me.
 
2013-02-20 04:20:03 PM

CheekyMonkey: hitlersbrain: If you are a man, imagine all the time, thought and energy you put into dreaming about sex and scheming to get sex. Assume women have about the same energy levels and that they have practically no sex drive. All that energy has to go somewhere right?

None of the women I've been in relationships with have had "practically no sex drive".  Unfortunately, they still won't shut up.  Sorry to blow your theory.


My last GF had NO sex drive, but she liked reading...a lot.  But, when she did open her pie hole, nothing relevant came out because "she didn't like watching or cared about the news or current events."

/sigh
 
2013-02-20 04:20:16 PM
She's Talking Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHoJ26Gcp_E">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=KHoJ26Gcp_E
 
2013-02-20 04:20:29 PM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-20 04:20:38 PM
I bet I could make a fortune by developing a FOXP2 suppressor.  I know some women who commit a verbal assault on you every time you see them.  If I'm lucky I can piss them off enough to stop talking to me, at least temporarily.  Or at least get a word in edgewise.
 
2013-02-20 04:20:45 PM
Oh my favorite is this:

Her:  "I cannot find X"
Me:  "It is on the kitchen counter, next to the stand mixer, to the left of the yellow cup"  (cannot get more specific than that)
Her:  "I do not see it, I've got to go, I am running late, why do you never help me?"

I walk over to the counter, lift the napkin and show her "X"

Me:  "X is right here, underneath this dirty napkin that YOU did not throw away.  Why did you not look underneath it?"
Her:  "You never said it was UNDERNEATH something"
Me:  "This is the only item(s) on the counter that is next to the stand mixer, to the left of the yellow cup...you know, exactly where I said it was"
Her: ...

Rinse and repeat daily.
 
2013-02-20 04:21:02 PM
Many women talk a lot because (for whatever reason) they think silence has to be filled. They can't just sit there and be quiet when there's really nothing to say. They think it's awkward and uncomfortable.

And many women talk a lot because they think everything they say is interesting. They think "talking" is the same as "communicating" and that "communication" is important, even if the only thing they're communicating is the endless loop of drivel bouncing around inside their heads.

There you go. Unscientific insight from me.
 
2013-02-20 04:21:31 PM

Petey4335: Holy hell.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets the "we need to talk about stuff tonight" which turns into she'll talk, and i'll nod my head waiting for her to get to the point.  Meanwhile, the hour I had to relax between kids going to bed and my sleepy time gets sucked to oblivion.


I find that your favorite alcohol on the rocks works well
 
2013-02-20 04:22:47 PM

mama2tnt: doczoidberg: Women run their mouths entirely too much, and the noise that comes out almost always is in the form of some pointless complaint.

Take my girlfriend, for instance. Always whining about something or another, or trying to tell me what to do. The other night, she insisted on having a big two hour fight over my leaving a towel on the counter while I was doing the dishes. What a waste of time, and what a horrible way to live -- some idiot complaining at you all day.

I tell you, this will be the last time I''' be foolish enough to throw my freedom away for some woman.

I call b.s. on your entire answer because of that one phrase.


Well, maybe someday you will date an adult male. Not little boys who can't do simple household chores.
 
2013-02-20 04:23:16 PM

Endive Wombat: Oh my favorite is this:

Her:  "I cannot find X"
Me:  "It is on the kitchen counter, next to the stand mixer, to the left of the yellow cup"  (cannot get more specific than that)
Her:  "I do not see it, I've got to go, I am running late, why do you never help me?"

I walk over to the counter, lift the napkin and show her "X"

Me:  "X is right here, underneath this dirty napkin that YOU did not throw away.  Why did you not look underneath it?"
Her:  "You never said it was UNDERNEATH something"
Me:  "This is the only item(s) on the counter that is next to the stand mixer, to the left of the yellow cup...you know, exactly where I said it was"
Her: ...

Rinse and repeat daily.


My favorite is:

Her: "I can't find X"
Me: "Did you look for it?"
Her: "Fark you! Why are you such a jerk???"
 
2013-02-20 04:23:23 PM
If it is important I have my wife write me a note so I won't forget.  This means that twenty minute conversation about family activities boils down to "pick boy up at day care on Tuesday."

When I was in school I had a physics prof who would derive solutions to the Schrodinger equation from memory.  At first we tried like mad to keep up but we soon realized that when he was done he would put the important information on a side board.  Same thing works with spouses.
 
2013-02-20 04:23:51 PM

ChrisDe: At times I'm tempted to put a security camera in the kitchen so I could play back what she actually said, and not what she thought she said. But somehow that would backfire on me.


It wouldn't work.  I'm divorced and communicate with the ex via email so that when there is a disagreement, I can cite  previous emails by time and date stamp and point to the exact line where she said something.  Result: "Well, what I MEANT was [something completely different]"
 
2013-02-20 04:24:13 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, this past Sunday evening:

Wife: Jen wants to bra shopping. Maybe at Nordys.
Me: Nordys?
Wife: Nordstroms.
Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not

Monday afternoon
Wife: I'll head straight home after work.
Me: OK, as opposed to?
Wife: Going bra shopping
Me: didnt realize you had made a plan to that
Wife: i mentioned that yesterday. about going with Jen
Me: I know, you mentioned it, didn't know you had planned to do so today
Wife: well, no matter. it's not happening.
Me: OK


I'll go ahead and admit that it took me a long time to figure out that these two lines did not mean that the matter was settled and done with.
 
2013-02-20 04:24:31 PM

TrixieDelite: I am a corporate receptionist.

I'll come home from work and he'll ask, "How was your day?" and I can turn that one question into a 20-minute monologue with quotes, voice-overs and props. By the time I'm done he knows the name and physical make-up of everyone I encountered between 8am and 5pm, whether or not I like them, and how I think they impacted the emotional success of my day.



I sincerely doubt it.
 
2013-02-20 04:24:35 PM

bunner: "You should do ~n before it gets cold"

"I will."

"No, you wont.  You say you will but you never finish anything."

"Didn't I do A,. B, B and all that other crap you asked about last  month?"

"Only because I nagged you."

"Are you sure?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean, cause and effect.  Have you tried NOT nagging me and seeing what happens?"

"You're not the only person who makes decisions in this family!"

"What's that got to do with anything?"

"Why are you so pigheaded?"

"Why do you have to try and convince me that without your foot up my ass, I couldn't tie my own shoes?"

"Whut UVER, you are so immature."

"Yes, that must be it."

"So are you going to do ~n?"

"*sigh*"


Please stop dating my wife.
 
2013-02-20 04:25:11 PM

Theaetetus: Diogenes: Evolutionary specialization artifacts.

Primitive men used to leave the family and their settlements to go on hunts.   Sometimes they'd be long, and they had to develop the ability to orient themselves and identify signs and landmarks to find their way around and get back home.  Not much verbalization required, but men developed better spatial skills and sense of direction.

Primitive women bore and raised children.  They developer keener interpersonal intuition.  They had to understand the non verbal clues coming from infants.  They also spent more time in the settlements dealing with others, sometimes having to communicate in pre-lingual ways.  They developed more complex language skills.

Cool story, bro. It's a shame that it's not necessarily supported by  archaeology.

See also:
A vast amount of ethnographic and archaeological evidence demonstrates that the sexual division of labor in which men hunt and women gather wild fruits and vegetables is an uncommon phenomenon among hunter-gatherers worldwide. Although most of the gathering is usually done by women, a society in which men completely abstained from gathering easily available plants has yet to be found. Generally women hunt the majority of the small game while men hunt the majority of the large and dangerous game, but there are quite a few documented exceptions to this general pattern. A study done on the  people of the  states: "About 85% of Philippine Aeta women hunt, and they hunt the same quarry as men. Aeta women hunt in groups and with dogs, and have a 31% success rate as opposed to 17% for men. Their rates are even better when they combine forces with men: mixed hunting groups have a full 41% success rate among the Aeta."

and:
And what's particularly intriguing in the report is the fact that of the 22 observed cases of spear-fashioning, only one involved an adult male. Thirteen were carried out by females. (The other cases involved young males.) The scientists suggest that female apes pl ...


That post rocked.  Okay, it took Diogenes too seriously, but there was a high coefficient of rockage nonetheless.  Thanks for that.
 
2013-02-20 04:26:04 PM

SuperChuck: TrixieDelite: I am a corporate receptionist.

I'll come home from work and he'll ask, "How was your day?" and I can turn that one question into a 20-minute monologue with quotes, voice-overs and props. By the time I'm done he knows the name and physical make-up of everyone I encountered between 8am and 5pm, whether or not I like them, and how I think they impacted the emotional success of my day.

My husband is a firefighter.

He'll come home from work and I'll ask, "How was your day?" He'll answer: "House caught on fire. Guy died."

In his defense, not that he needs it, but it's probably not so pleasant to talk about such things. Plus, when I come home, work is over. I don't want to talk about it anymore.


That's funny. My husband's name is Chuck.
Sweet Jesus, you're not him are you?
Hey, remember that time that we went to that place that had the thing we liked? If you can tell me what it was and what I was wearing, I'll know if you're my husband.
 
2013-02-20 04:26:14 PM
My wife is the opposite.

Me: Dave and I are going to grab a beer after work tomorrow. We'll probably eat at the bar so don't worry about dinner tomorrow.
Wife: OK.
[fast forward one day]
Wife: So, what do you want for dinner tonight?
 
2013-02-20 04:26:16 PM

SuperChuck: The other thing that drives me nuts is yes or no questions. I can ask one and I'm guaranteed to get a response of at least 20 words, half of which are not relevant to the question. All I want is "Yes" or "no". Why is that so hard?


If you actually get an answer to your question at all, consider yourself lucky.
 
2013-02-20 04:26:29 PM

ObscureNameHere: SmackLT: Just different communication styles. Although I tend to be more wary when she uses a much smaller number of words because it sounds evasive by comparison.

Her: So I ran into Martin the other day.
Me: Oh really?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Where?
Her: Bookstore.
Me: Okay. So did you guys talk?
Her: A little.
Me: Then he left?
Her: No, we got coffee.
Me: Oh.
Me: ...
Me: ...
Me: So what did you guys talk about?
Her: Nothing.
Me: ...

Yeah..... she's doing Martin.


Could be that. Could also be the "jealousy test", in which the ladies want to see how distraught you are at their spending some times with another man. Thing is, many respond positively to a jealous reaction from their man. I mean, if she really was doing Martin, why intentionally bring him up in such a cryptic, evasive manner. She just wants to see how torn up her man would be.
 
2013-02-20 04:26:51 PM

WhippingBoy: Endive Wombat: Oh my favorite is this:

Her:  "I cannot find X"
Me:  "It is on the kitchen counter, next to the stand mixer, to the left of the yellow cup"  (cannot get more specific than that)
Her:  "I do not see it, I've got to go, I am running late, why do you never help me?"

I walk over to the counter, lift the napkin and show her "X"

Me:  "X is right here, underneath this dirty napkin that YOU did not throw away.  Why did you not look underneath it?"
Her:  "You never said it was UNDERNEATH something"
Me:  "This is the only item(s) on the counter that is next to the stand mixer, to the left of the yellow cup...you know, exactly where I said it was"
Her: ...

Rinse and repeat daily.

My favorite is:

Her: "I can't find X"
Me: "Did you look for it?"
Her: "Fark you! Why are you such a jerk???"


Sorry to break it to you both, this isn't a communications issue.  Your SOs are both drama queens.
 
2013-02-20 04:26:54 PM
This thread is golden.
 My personal fav is when the x-wife used to tell me what was wrong in any situation, I would offer advice on how to fix it, which made me a jerk (if you ask me for advice, you should expect it).
 Types of conversations:
the setup: asking a question she already has an answer to start a fight. so she can feel superior about it and doesn't have any of the guilt for starting a fight.
 talking to you when you are in another room, or in the car with the radio and and she is looking out the window.  I ignore these conversations, if you cant have the courtesy to look at someone you are talking too, then why should i bother to listen.
I learned a few things: write down the important stuff (meetings, trips, pickups etc).
the occasional "ok" or hmmmm does the trick too.

I want you to fix XYZ this weekend, then gets upset for not doing it the way she wanted you too, but never gave any specifics.
 
2013-02-20 04:27:07 PM

YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?


I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?
 
2013-02-20 04:27:19 PM

RembrandtQEinstein: Attention women, here is a list of topics of conversation men find uninteresting under all circumstances. If you want to talk about them call your girlfriends or your mother.

1. your friends (unless they are hot and/or slutty)
2. your relatives (unless they are going to die soon and leave us money)
3. your job (unless someone is harassing you and needs a nut punch)
4. anyone else's children or pets
5. your problems (unless you want us to solve them, are willing to listen to and accept our solution, and are willing to do the work to implement the solution)


The following times are inappropriate for conversation, in fact in these situations the only acceptable interaction is to quietly leave an open beer somewhere we can see you do it but without interrupting what we are doing.

1. when we are looking at a screen (tv, video game, phone, tablet, etc)
2. when we are reading
3. when we are fixing things
4. when our eyes are closed
5. when we are talking on the phone

Follow this advice for a happy relationship.


**These topics are acceptable if something it truly train wrecky
 
2013-02-20 04:27:51 PM

Endive Wombat: Yeah, she's letting Martin put it in her pooper, and she's enjoying it too!


Me: Hey honey, are you doing Martin?
Her: What do you mean?
Me: Are you having sex with him?
Her: What do you mean?
Me: One of the various forms of sexual copulation, including but not limited to penile vaginal penetration, oral genital copulation, penile anal penetration, digital vaginal penetration, a Dutch blindfold, a two-finger Susie, a reverse Andre the Giant, an angry aardvark, or a wet Albert?
Her: ...
Her: ...
Her: No?
 
2013-02-20 04:28:06 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them


Yeah, I'm the same. I rarely speak at home. Barely say a word to my husband. I leave him alone. We get home from work, greet each other, I make dinner, we eat, we go to separate rooms to play our games and don't speak for the rest of the night. He says good night and goes to bed. We don't speak again until we come home from work the next night. It's quiet and peaceful. It's taken many years, but he's trained me well.

But man, when I'm around our daughter, the two of us are a constant, and apparently LOUD couple of chatterboxes. So much so that my husband will occasionally emerge from his room where he is playing his game and interrupt us to complain "Stop FARKING YELLING! You're sitting right next to each other, for FARKS SAKE!" and then go back to his room.

Then the kids go home and it's quiet again for another six months.

/don't speak at work either, unless it's work related
//mother used to complain he'd changed my personality, but she's been dead a long time
 
2013-02-20 04:28:27 PM
Bull manure.  Look how many words you knuckleheads use to claim women talk too much.
enough said
 
2013-02-20 04:28:43 PM
All conversation was invented as a means to assert dominance.  Since women can't physically assert dominance (usually) they use conversation.  It's super effective.
 
2013-02-20 04:29:09 PM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: JNowe: Scientists have discovered that women possess higher levels of a "language protein" in their brains, which could explain why females are so talkative.

Which would be fine, if they had higher levels of content.

There's plenty of content.  What we have here is a comprehension gap.


No. Not really.
 
2013-02-20 04:29:30 PM
(bla...bla...bla...)

she's talking again, it's really buging me
she's talking again, it's so embarrassing
I look at my friends, they thing she's psycho
cuz she's talking and talking and talking talking
and talking and talking...

she's talking again, I need a cigarette
she's talking again, I wish we never met
she's talking again, she's like a TV-set
she's talking and talking and talking talking
and talking and talking...

I'm go'na go insane!!!
I'm in horrific pain!!!
I'm go'na loose my brain!!!
I'm going crazy cuz she's talking and
talking and talking talking and talking
and talking...

(bla...bla...bla...)

she's talking again, about astrology
she's talking again, about biology
she's talking again, with out apology
she's talking and talking and talking talking
and talking and talking...

she's talking again, I got her number from a mutual friend
I'll have to kill him cuz she talks with out end
I'm going crazy cuz she's talking and
talking and talking talking and talking
and talking...

I'm go'na go insane!!!
I'm in horrific pain!!!
I need some novocain!!!
I'm going crazy cuz she's talking and
talking and talking talking and talking
and talking...

I dont care about the words you say
you already told that story any way
I'm go'na get a .38 and blow myself away!
because you're talking!!!

(bla...bla...bla...)

she's talking again, about the government
she's talking again, where her brother lives
she's talking again, I got to get away
she's talking and talking and talking
talking and talking

she's talking again, it's really buging me
she's talking again, it's so embarrassing
I look at my friends, they thing she's psycho
cuz she's talking and talking and talking talking
and talking and talking...

I'm go'na go insane!!!
I'm in horrific pain!!!
she must be on cocaine!!!
I think I need some cuz she's talking and
talking and talking talking and talking
and talking...

-"She's Talking Again" by Henry Phillips
 
2013-02-20 04:29:50 PM

blatz514: TrixieDelite: I am a corporate receptionist.

I'll come home from work and he'll ask, "How was your day?" and I can turn that one question into a 20-minute monologue with quotes, voice-overs and props. By the time I'm done he knows the name and physical make-up of everyone I encountered between 8am and 5pm, whether or not I like them, and how I think they impacted the emotional success of my day.

My husband is a firefighter.

He'll come home from work and I'll ask, "How was your day?" He'll answer: "House caught on fire. Guy died."

That there is full of so much win!


Can someone *please* post the image of 'Her Diary / His Diary'?     (can't from work)

The gist is a woman's diary entry for one day (a paragraph that goes into ever escalating drama and interpretation with no evidence) and her man's entry for the same day (about a sentence...which actually answers all of the drama of the women's succintly).  Funny and enlightening, in one!
 
2013-02-20 04:30:23 PM
hitlersbrain: If you are a man, imagine all the time, thought and energy you put into dreaming about sex and scheming to get sex. Assume women have about the same energy levels and that they have practically no sex drive. All that energy has to go somewhere right?

you are doing it wrong. Unless, you are dating women out of menopause.
 
2013-02-20 04:30:35 PM

Bronzemom: Bull manure.  Look how many words you knuckleheads use to claim women talk too much.
enough said


This post is perfect. But not why you think it is.
 
2013-02-20 04:30:53 PM
A friend of mine asked my advice on dating and I told him to just listen. She'll talk on and on but keep quiet and listen with minimal speaking. If you can do this, just the act of talking will make the woman more comfortable with you and she'll trust you more.

He called me after the date. "Man that listening crap really works....but it was hard not to doze off."
 
2013-02-20 04:31:23 PM

farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?


Probably because we're not spoiled little children who turn our backs on people we love just because they have some annoying habits.
 
2013-02-20 04:31:38 PM
In the early years of our marriage I used to be able to stop Mrs, Henry's babble-yakking with a loud burst of flatulence.
Now all it does is switch the subject noise to "poor air quality", "stubborn laundry stains" and "demands to see a doctor".
 
2013-02-20 04:32:01 PM

Mighty_Joe: ChrisDe: At times I'm tempted to put a security camera in the kitchen so I could play back what she actually said, and not what she thought she said. But somehow that would backfire on me.

It wouldn't work.   I'm divorced and communicate with the ex via email so that when there is a disagreement, I can cite  previous emails by time and date stamp and point to the exact line where she said something.  Result: "Well, what I MEANT was [something completely different]"


you are not alone. I now only accept emails or texts from my ex, 2 summers ago I told her exactly which two weeks I was taking our boys, she 'got confused' and planned her vacation over those 2 weeks, that was the end of oral communication with her.
 
2013-02-20 04:33:22 PM
I can tell you that part of my frustration with my wife's yammering is my job.  I talk all day long, I am in meetings every day, I am on the phone all day.  Sometimes, I want to watch stupid, mindless TV or listen to show tunes and cook without any conversation, even if it is just for an hour.
 
2013-02-20 04:33:27 PM

Bronzemom: Bull manure.  Look how many words you knuckleheads use to claim women talk too much.
enough said


Uh-oh... someone's feeling a wee bit defensive, aren't they?
 
2013-02-20 04:33:55 PM

TrixieDelite: SuperChuck: TrixieDelite: I am a corporate receptionist.

I'll come home from work and he'll ask, "How was your day?" and I can turn that one question into a 20-minute monologue with quotes, voice-overs and props. By the time I'm done he knows the name and physical make-up of everyone I encountered between 8am and 5pm, whether or not I like them, and how I think they impacted the emotional success of my day.

My husband is a firefighter.

He'll come home from work and I'll ask, "How was your day?" He'll answer: "House caught on fire. Guy died."

In his defense, not that he needs it, but it's probably not so pleasant to talk about such things. Plus, when I come home, work is over. I don't want to talk about it anymore.

That's funny. My husband's name is Chuck.
Sweet Jesus, you're not him are you?
Hey, remember that time that we went to that place that had the thing we liked? If you can tell me what it was and what I was wearing, I'll know if you're my husband.


Are you talking about a restaurant or that time in the park where we almost got arrested?
 
2013-02-20 04:34:27 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Every conversation ends up being a jumbled stream of consciousness where you have to put the chronological pieces together like you're farking Indiana Jones.


OMFG, now I understand why I hide in my refrigerator when my wife starts talking....
 
2013-02-20 04:35:39 PM

Endive Wombat: I can tell you that part of my frustration with my wife's yammering is my job.  I talk all day long, I am in meetings every day, I am on the phone all day.  Sometimes, I want to watch stupid, mindless TV or listen to show tunes and cook without any conversation, even if it is just for an hour.


Sometimes I just want to sit in a chair and stare into space. Mrs. Henry always assumes I'm having a stroke and calls the damn ambulance for me.
 
2013-02-20 04:36:05 PM
My favorite example was dealing with a new CPA in tax season.
I answered all questions quickly, she took every question as a story telling challenge.
As we ended up he shook my hand and told me to come back if there were any questions. He then looked at her and told her that he would murder her if she even so much as called. She started to get very angry and I made it worse by telling him that I would split the cost of the bullets with him. Our then six year old once told her to get to the point. She was asked never to show up for parent meetings because they went extra long when she showed up. At least she is better than her mother was.

Decision making for her is another challenge. I once called her to ask if she wanted me to get sushi on the way home. "I don't know, what do you want, does it sound good to you?", etc. 24 minutes later I walk in the door and she is still on the cell trying to decide. She obviously went without.
 
2013-02-20 04:37:35 PM

WhippingBoy: farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?

Probably because we're not spoiled little children who turn our backs on people we love just because they have some annoying habits.


Right.  We're all paragons of maturity here on Fark.  So let's just complain about our loved ones in the privacy of the web.
 
2013-02-20 04:38:04 PM

farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?


This!
 
2013-02-20 04:38:33 PM

oldfarthenry: Endive Wombat: I can tell you that part of my frustration with my wife's yammering is my job.  I talk all day long, I am in meetings every day, I am on the phone all day.  Sometimes, I want to watch stupid, mindless TV or listen to show tunes and cook without any conversation, even if it is just for an hour.

Sometimes I just want to sit in a chair and stare into space. Mrs. Henry always assumes I'm having a stroke and calls the damn ambulance for me.


 Aren't you a TFer?
 
2013-02-20 04:38:48 PM

farkingnotworking: WhippingBoy: farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?

Probably because we're not spoiled little children who turn our backs on people we love just because they have some annoying habits.

Right.  We're all paragons of maturity here on Fark.  So let's just complain about our loved ones in the privacy of the web.


It's called commiserating. You know, kind of like you do with your five cats (if not now, then in the future).
 
2013-02-20 04:39:39 PM

oldfarthenry
In the early years of our marriage I used to be able to stop Mrs, Henry's babble-yakking with a loud burst of flatulence.
Now all it does is switch the subject noise to "poor air quality", "stubborn laundry stains" and "demands to see a doctor".


ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

+1
 
2013-02-20 04:40:28 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Gf: Where's the Klondike bars?
Me: I don't know
Gf: Did you eat them all?
Me: I ate some, I'm not sure how many
Gf: Well they're all gone so you must have eaten all of them!
Me: Ok
Gf: I only had one!
Me: I'll stop by the store and get some more if you want
Gf: So now we have to make a special trip just for Klondike bars?? You'll just eat those too
Me: Isn't that what they're for?
Gf: They're for both of us!
Me: So eat them! It's not my fault you only ate one.
Gf: You know I'm dieting right now!
Me: ???


Ouch. I seriously think I'd rather be kicked in the balls then have a conversation like this.
 
db2
2013-02-20 04:41:12 PM
It's like women know when you have to piss real bad, and assault you with a stream of conversation just when you get up to go to the bathroom.
 
2013-02-20 04:42:17 PM

db2: It's like women know when you have to piss real bad, and assault you with a stream of conversation just when you get up to go to the bathroom.


I feel so much better after reading this thread. I thought I was the only one who felt this type of pain...
 
2013-02-20 04:42:21 PM

Endive Wombat: I can tell you that part of my frustration with my wife's yammering is my job. I talk all day long, I am in meetings every day, I am on the phone all day. Sometimes, I want to watch stupid, mindless TV or listen to show tunes and cook without any conversation, even if it is just for an hour.


So...it's the title "wife" that causes the talking, not the gender?
 
2013-02-20 04:42:33 PM

farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?


Speaking for myself, for a long time my wife was annoying as hell to talk to. But eventually I came to realize that she and I just communicate differently (and we're pretty average, from what I can tell). If you want to be happy, you have to accept that she communicates like that. Also very important: deep down, she wants and literally *needs* to vent stuff to you. Let her vent, be supportive, and don't take the venting as some kind of personal attack (because it's not). It's all cool.

If you claim to be with a woman who doesn't vent and communicates like a man, odds are they are transsexual. NTTAWWT.
 
2013-02-20 04:43:09 PM

Dirtybird971: hitlersbrain: If you are a man, imagine all the time, thought and energy you put into dreaming about sex and scheming to get sex. Assume women have about the same energy levels and that they have practically no sex drive. All that energy has to go somewhere right?

you are doing it wrong. Unless, you are dating women out of menopause.


If only. My favorite fantasy is a world full of women with sex drives comparable to mens'. More likely is a world where men have the barely perceptible sex drive of women. The inane chatter will be deafening.
 
2013-02-20 04:44:29 PM
 
2013-02-20 04:44:58 PM
It's amusing that so many of you are married to dipshiats who won't shut up. I'd be sympathetic, but so many of you are also assholes, so I figure you deserve it.
 
2013-02-20 04:45:27 PM

Jument: farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?

Speaking for myself, for a long time my wife was annoying as hell to talk to. But eventually I came to realize that she and I just communicate differently (and we're pretty average, from what I can tell). If you want to be happy, you have to accept that she communicates like that. Also very important: deep down, she wants and literally *needs* to vent stuff to you. Let her vent, be supportive, and don't take the venting as some kind of personal attack (because it's not). It's all cool.

If you claim to be with a woman who doesn't vent and communicates like a man, odds are they are transsexual. NTTAWWT.


Exactly. Once you grow up and realize that good relationships actually take work and sacrifice, things aren't so bad.

Doesn't mean it isn't fun to talk about your partner's foibles with other like-minded individuals, though.
 
2013-02-20 04:45:28 PM

Endive Wombat: oldfarthenry: Endive Wombat: I can tell you that part of my frustration with my wife's yammering is my job.  I talk all day long, I am in meetings every day, I am on the phone all day.  Sometimes, I want to watch stupid, mindless TV or listen to show tunes and cook without any conversation, even if it is just for an hour.

Sometimes I just want to sit in a chair and stare into space. Mrs. Henry always assumes I'm having a stroke and calls the damn ambulance for me.

 Aren't you a TFer?


I've been sponsored a few times - but I ain't paying $5 a month for that.
 
2013-02-20 04:45:39 PM

Klippoklondike: Article says women are better at small talk?  If the point at small talk is to say 20 gazillion words with no clear point and no single topic or direction then yes, women are great at small talk.  If the point is to kill time and actually learn something, men are better at small talk.


Yeah, it would help if you knew what small talk was.

Unless, of course, your real point was to demonstrate that women are better than men at small talk, in which case, bravo.
 
2013-02-20 04:46:47 PM

mjohnson71: 1) Leave work
2) Call wife
3) Tell her I'm on the way home
4) She starts talking and won't shut up
5) Drive 20 minutes home
6) Walk in door while wife is still talking
7) Wife gets pissed

Yay me.


Have you ever tried to say "I'm gonna be home soon, and we can talk about this then"  I have, because I know that in 20 minutes, I will run out of "news" to both tell and hear.  Then when I'm home, and feel caught up on the situations, I have nothing to say. And that's fine with me, cuz I'll just wander off and do whatever while the lady pokes on her cellphone or tablet.
 
2013-02-20 04:46:58 PM

EightyEight: you are not alone. I now only accept emails or texts from my ex, 2 summers ago I told her exactly which two weeks I was taking our boys, she 'got confused' and planned her vacation over those 2 weeks, that was the end of oral communication with her.


Anybody else think Pesci in Casino?  Maybe I put your head through that window, you get unconfused.

Also, (The Trouble With Women Is) The Mouth Don't Stop.
 
2013-02-20 04:47:13 PM
Her: OMG the toaster is broken! It won't stay down. We will need to go to Target and get a new one. I think we'll have enough time if
(Interrupting)
Me: Is it plugged in?
Her:....
Me: Well?
Her: Shut up!
 
2013-02-20 04:47:24 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I'd be sympathetic, but so many of you are also assholes, so I figure you deserve it.


I hate to admit it, but the evidence seems to be on your side.
 
2013-02-20 04:47:26 PM

reveal101: PanicAttack: my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them

As an ISTJ, I completely agree.

Another INTJ (male) here. I'm pretty sure that fark is filled with people with similar personality types, this opinion being based on over 10 years of lurking the threads. Introverted and extremely intelligent people tend to flock to this site.


i1094.photobucket.com
Explain the politics tab, then.
 
2013-02-20 04:47:27 PM

TrixieDelite: His diary/her diary


Ms. FPB and I Yahoo while I'm at work.  LINK SENT LOLOOLOLOLOLOL
 
2013-02-20 04:48:11 PM

bunner: "I mean, cause and effect. Have you tried NOT nagging me and seeing what happens?"


See, I've tried to explain that.  I've even had this conversation:

Her:  When are you going to do X?
Me:  I already did.
Her:  When?
Me:  This morning.
Her:  It's about time.
Me:  You first asked me to do it this morning.
Her:  I shouldn't have had to remind you.
Me:  You didn't.  I did it this morning.

And I have the hardest time getting across the fact that her apparent need to remind me of something is not the same as me needing to be reminded.  If anything, if she really thinks I'm that much of a farking idiot, it just deprives her of the opportunity to be surprised when I do it without being reminded... like I absolutely always do.
 
2013-02-20 04:48:25 PM

SmackLT: Endive Wombat: Yeah, she's letting Martin put it in her pooper, and she's enjoying it too!

Me: Hey honey, are you doing Martin?
Her: What do you mean?
Me: Are you having sex with him?
Her: What do you mean?
Me: One of the various forms of sexual copulation, including but not limited to penile vaginal penetration, oral genital copulation, penile anal penetration, digital vaginal penetration, a Dutch blindfold, a two-finger Susie, a reverse Andre the Giant, an angry aardvark, or a wet Albert?
Her: ...
Her: ...
Her: No?


Do you have wet Albert in a can?
www.confessionsofacheapskate.com
 
2013-02-20 04:49:01 PM

23FPB23: TrixieDelite: His diary/her diary

Ms. FPB and I Yahoo while I'm at work.  LINK SENT LOLOOLOLOLOLOL


And, her reply:

 lol lol lol you shut up
 
2013-02-20 04:49:45 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's amusing that so many of you are married to dipshiats who won't shut up. I'd be sympathetic, but so many of you are also assholes, so I figure you deserve it.


I wont speak for all the assholes (just me), but this is just venting/commiseration. My current gf does yammer occasionally, but I find it amusing, especially since she doesn't do all of the passive/aggressive, underhanded vindictive garbage my X did wife did.
 
2013-02-20 04:50:35 PM
Raise your hand if you are a guy and you have had a conversation with one of your buddies that was entierly made up of single word responses.

(raises hand)

A girl friend of mine, who can be very pedantic when it comes to English, overheard me talking on the phone with one of my buddies. The whole conversation took maybe...  20 seconds?

Her:  "What was that?"
Me:   "I was talking to Bob."
Her:  "No you weren't!  You said six, maybe seven single words.  They weren't even sentences!"
Me:   "Yes I was. We're going out for pizza at 6.  Want to come with us?"
Her:  (annoyed)
 
2013-02-20 04:51:27 PM

WhippingBoy: farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?

Probably because we're not spoiled little children who turn our backs on people we love just because they have some annoying habits.


LOL. You used the word "love," as if you actually meant it.
 
2013-02-20 04:51:39 PM

PsiChick: More like: "We have never once even heard of linguistic anthropology, because social sciences are for LOOZERS!". Seriously, hard sciences have got to STFU about soft sciences, because social sciences occasionally find out shiat that makes you look like a retard, such as the current theory that's so secure it's taught to 101 students: Women and men have differing speech patterns because of cultural hardwiring. Unless you find a pattern that occurs in multiple different cultures before globalization, you are not looking at biology, you're looking at culture.

I love hard sciences, but occasionally I wonder if they're trying to parody themselves. Just because you can't measure social influence with decimal points doesn't mean social influence doesn't exist. It just means you need to figure out a different measurement.


Actually, I find that both the natural sciences and the social sciences share a common bias: They assume any foible of human behaviour must be due to the consequences of that which they study. Having studied both at one time or the other, I find this exasperating. We're biological entities with hardwired cognitive behaviours built into a variable and plastic organic substrate. We have instincts and biases that we all share, but which are subject to modification by the environment, especially sociocultural values.

For example, there's the point that most men in most cultures find a waist to hip ration of 0.7 to be the most attractive. Yet there are social scientists who dispute this by pointing out that there are cultures that identify obese women or very thin women as most attractive. I see these sorts of arguments and want to /facepalm so hard , because the argument misses the obvious conclusion. The biological baseline preference exists but is subject to extensive modification by cultural values. Nature AND nurture.

I think something like this study is another potential example of this exasperating tendency. A biological difference has been found that apparently would support a common behavioural tendency. That in no way means that tendency cannot be modified by cultural influences, but those cultural modifications do not give the social scientists grounds to dismiss it out of hand either.

Complexity is the norm for explaining behaviour in social animals. There are no unique causes. I am of the considered opinion that the social scientists and the natural scientists need to stop arguing and wrangling over who is right or wrong and start comparing notes on stuff like this in order to try and figure out what the relationship is between the underlying biological tendencies we all share as humans and the pronounced cultural influences that modify how those tendencies get expressed.
 
2013-02-20 04:51:58 PM
Stupid article was stupid.
 
2013-02-20 04:53:22 PM

TrixieDelite: His diary/her diary


Shenanigans. Men don't keep diaries.
 
2013-02-20 04:53:23 PM
Women don't want you to douse the flames by helping solve their problems, they want you to further stoke their "why me" fires by basically crying and boo-hooing along with them.
 
2013-02-20 04:53:49 PM

Diogenes: Evolutionary specialization artifacts.

Primitive men used to leave the family and their settlements to go on hunts.   Sometimes they'd be long, and they had to develop the ability to orient themselves and identify signs and landmarks to find their way around and get back home.  Not much verbalization required, but men developed better spatial skills and sense of direction.

Primitive women bore and raised children.  They developer keener interpersonal intuition.  They had to understand the non verbal clues coming from infants.  They also spent more time in the settlements dealing with others, sometimes having to communicate in pre-lingual ways.  They developed more complex language skills.



That's a great Just-So story, but there isn't really a lot of evidence that the sexual division of labor like you describe actually happened that long ago.  It was more likely a pretty recent invention.

http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/gurvenhill2009.pdf
 
2013-02-20 04:55:33 PM
Worst-er is the "midnight download."  I can't keep my eyes open, need to be up in 6 hours or less, and now is the time she wants to offload every bit of data.      I try, I really DO try, to keep my eyes open.  Problem is, I'm concentrating so hard on staying awake that I can't focus on what she's saying, much less process that information or contribute to the "conversation".   At some point, my eyes just close and I'm unaware of that fact, but can still hear talking without understanding a word.

"Kids have a swim practice tomorrow and then there's Y's birthday party Saturday but we were going to eat with neighbors so we'll get Grandma to take Kid3 to that, so Kid1 and Kid2 can stay home.  Should we get them pizza?  I have to work Sunday from home for a project, so you'll have to take care of the laundry and shopping, when you're making the list don't forget q-tips and conditioner.  I don't care what kind, just not mango.  Speaking of which, should we pick up an appetizer for Saturday?  When we go on vacation next summer we should bring video X which will be fun for the family.  Kid 2 has a loose tooth, so make sure you get some dollar coins at the bank.  Oh, the shopping list we need some AA batteries and some tea.  We need to get Kid1 and Kid2 to the swimming store to try on team suits.  2 weeks from Friday is Market Day - did you order anything yet?  I liked the eggplant last time, so get that, unless you want something else.  Were you going to help your dad on Sunday too?  Your mom called and they'd like your help with {chore}..."

The next morning I'm wondering why my dad needs to wash a mango-eggplant swimming suit.
 
2013-02-20 04:57:21 PM

socquitor: Worst-er is the "midnight download."  I can't keep my eyes open, need to be up in 6 hours or less, and now is the time she wants to offload every bit of data.      I try, I really DO try, to keep my eyes open.  Problem is, I'm concentrating so hard on staying awake that I can't focus on what she's saying, much less process that information or contribute to the "conversation".   At some point, my eyes just close and I'm unaware of that fact, but can still hear talking without understanding a word.

"Kids have a swim practice tomorrow and then there's Y's birthday party Saturday but we were going to eat with neighbors so we'll get Grandma to take Kid3 to that, so Kid1 and Kid2 can stay home.  Should we get them pizza?  I have to work Sunday from home for a project, so you'll have to take care of the laundry and shopping, when you're making the list don't forget q-tips and conditioner.  I don't care what kind, just not mango.  Speaking of which, should we pick up an appetizer for Saturday?  When we go on vacation next summer we should bring video X which will be fun for the family.  Kid 2 has a loose tooth, so make sure you get some dollar coins at the bank.  Oh, the shopping list we need some AA batteries and some tea.  We need to get Kid1 and Kid2 to the swimming store to try on team suits.  2 weeks from Friday is Market Day - did you order anything yet?  I liked the eggplant last time, so get that, unless you want something else.  Were you going to help your dad on Sunday too?  Your mom called and they'd like your help with {chore}..."

The next morning I'm wondering why my dad needs to wash a mango-eggplant swimming suit.


You must have some very odd dreams after all that.
 
2013-02-20 04:58:20 PM

My Yali or Yours: Women don't want you to douse the flames by helping solve their problems, they want you to further stoke their "why me" fires by basically crying and boo-hooing along with them.


I find that a semi-dismissive "sorry, sweetie ... bummer" helps.  Of course then the wheels start going in my head about how to actually SOLVE the issue, but that's cured by pouring brown liquors on frozen water.
 
2013-02-20 04:58:58 PM

oldfarthenry: In the early years of our marriage I used to be able to stop Mrs, Henry's babble-yakking with a loud burst of flatulence.
Now all it does is switch the subject noise to "poor air quality", "stubborn laundry stains" and "demands to see a doctor".


All that happens in my house when I try that is we get into a farting contest.
 
2013-02-20 05:00:05 PM

ObscureNameHere: blatz514: TrixieDelite: I am a corporate receptionist.

I'll come home from work and he'll ask, "How was your day?" and I can turn that one question into a 20-minute monologue with quotes, voice-overs and props. By the time I'm done he knows the name and physical make-up of everyone I encountered between 8am and 5pm, whether or not I like them, and how I think they impacted the emotional success of my day.

My husband is a firefighter.

He'll come home from work and I'll ask, "How was your day?" He'll answer: "House caught on fire. Guy died."

That there is full of so much win!

Can someone *please* post the image of 'Her Diary / His Diary'?     (can't from work)

The gist is a woman's diary entry for one day (a paragraph that goes into ever escalating drama and interpretation with no evidence) and her man's entry for the same day (about a sentence...which actually answers all of the drama of the women's succintly).  Funny and enlightening, in one!


Here ya go.  I got bizzay, otherwise it would have been quicker.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-20 05:00:11 PM

vegaswench: I am going to teach a class. "How To Respond When Someone At Work Asks You How You Are 101."

Only accetable answer: "Fine, how are you?"

All other responses get an F.


Took me years to learn that.

Coincidentally, I was telling someone this just today, and concluded with, "I finally grokked it when I realized that 'How are you?" is a GREETING, not a QUESTION."
 
2013-02-20 05:00:39 PM

socquitor: Worst-er is the "midnight download.".....


Ugh, I hear ya buddy.  Mine used to do this immediately when I walked in the door from work. Just venting at me after a long day at the office.  Tried to put a rule in for 30 minutes of quiet time after work but didn't last.
I found that the best thing to endure her ongoing biatching about everything was scotch.
 
2013-02-20 05:01:35 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I'd be sympathetic, but so many of you are also assholes, so I figure you deserve it.


Smelly Pirate Hooker: LOL. You used the word "love," as if you actually meant it.


Yeah, that's my limit for smirky misandry for the day.  *click*
 
2013-02-20 05:02:31 PM

KiltedBastich: PsiChick: More like: "We have never once even heard of linguistic anthropology, because social sciences are for LOOZERS!". Seriously, hard sciences have got to STFU about soft sciences, because social sciences occasionally find out shiat that makes you look like a retard, such as the current theory that's so secure it's taught to 101 students: Women and men have differing speech patterns because of cultural hardwiring. Unless you find a pattern that occurs in multiple different cultures before globalization, you are not looking at biology, you're looking at culture.

I love hard sciences, but occasionally I wonder if they're trying to parody themselves. Just because you can't measure social influence with decimal points doesn't mean social influence doesn't exist. It just means you need to figure out a different measurement.

Actually, I find that both the natural sciences and the social sciences share a common bias: They assume any foible of human behaviour must be due to the consequences of that which they study. Having studied both at one time or the other, I find this exasperating. We're biological entities with hardwired cognitive behaviours built into a variable and plastic organic substrate. We have instincts and biases that we all share, but which are subject to modification by the environment, especially sociocultural values.

For example, there's the point that most men in most cultures find a waist to hip ration of 0.7 to be the most attractive. Yet there are social scientists who dispute this by pointing out that there are cultures that identify obese women or very thin women as most attractive. I see these sorts of arguments and want to /facepalm so hard , because the argument misses the obvious conclusion. The biological baseline preference exists but is subject to extensive modification by cultural values. Nature AND nurture.

I think something like this study is another potential example of this exasperating tendency. A biological difference has been ...


...Anthropology actually discusses the difference between a social trait and a biological trait as part of its field. Like, again, this is what they teach in 101. As do most other social sciences. Part of the waist-hip thing is that any biological inclination would be very slight, like TFA--so slight as to be, for all intents and purposes, nonexistant. Humans do not have many true instincts, and there  are some behaviors that pattern across all cultures. Schizophrenia, for example, manifests the same way in every culture. That's a biological trait.

This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture, it would be unnoticeable, which means there's very little value in the real world in looking at it as an indicator, although certainly it's of value to further research. But at some point, .00000000000000001 is just 0.
 
2013-02-20 05:03:09 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.


As an experiment in high school, I spent a week not talking unless it was to answer a question or to ask a question about something I really needed to know.

People asked me if I was sick, had I lost my voice, why I had taken a vow of silence, et cetera.  I said about five things a day, and three of them were answers to questions a teacher had asked.
 
2013-02-20 05:05:02 PM
I'm perturbed by stories that don't involve last names.  I'm not old, but by now I know many "Katies", "Daves", "Jens" and others.  When a story starts "I saw Jen today and (wwwwwwwwwoooooordddds) and we're invited over to dinner" I kinda need to know which Jen we're talking about, otherwise I'd just ignore me not fully knowing what is happening. Now when I pause her to ask, it's like I'm the idiot for not knowing who she's talking about.  If that's not going on, then it's gratuitous use of pronouns to the point where I can't follow a story.
 
2013-02-20 05:07:03 PM

AncientLurker: Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's amusing that so many of you are married to dipshiats who won't shut up. I'd be sympathetic, but so many of you are also assholes, so I figure you deserve it.

I wont speak for all the assholes (just me), but this is just venting/commiseration. My current gf does yammer occasionally, but I find it amusing, especially since she doesn't do all of the passive/aggressive, underhanded vindictive garbage my X did wife did.


OK. Cool for you.

What I suspect is happening is the same thing parents do with children. It's easier to give in to somebody than correct them. Of course, that means you have to put up with their bullshiat for the rest of their life. Or until you sick enough of it to put a stop to it.

My mother used to tell me fairly long stories about people she works with. I'd asked her how work was going, so fine. But while telling the story, she'd tell me who various people were related to: "I was talking to Becky, she's Mary's daughter" or "And Joan was there, she's John's wife," and I'd wait for this bit of familial info to be come relevant. Then she'd get to the end of the story, and that's it. No clue as to why the fark I had to know who Becky's mother or Joan's husband was. So after awhile, I decided I'd had enough and in the middle of one of these stories, I asked her, "Is there a reason I need to know why so and so is so and so's daughter?" Her: "Well, no, not really." Me: "OK, just checking."

I could tell I hurt her feelings. And knowing her (because my mother almost never forgets an offense) she's still kinda pissed. But she hasn't done it since. Fine by me.

Of course, I don't need to have sex with my mother and I'm happy to go days without talking to her, so I can do this, whereas some of you poor farkers are stuck with the morons you're married to. Have fun.
 
2013-02-20 05:07:38 PM

PsiChick: This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture, it would be unnoticeable, which means there's very little value in the real world in looking at it as an indicator, although certainly it's of value to further research. But at some point, .00000000000000001 is just 0.


So do women in other countries with different cultures not use as many words when talking? Any farker's not from the USA USA USA USA want to answer?
 
2013-02-20 05:08:27 PM
women translator:
her: We need to talk
means: I am about to tell you what you have done wrong, and I will drag it out for 20 minutes to ensure you feel bad enough about it for my satisfaction.

her: Where have you been?
means: you are late, having an affair, don't love her anymore.  I will drag it out for 20 minutes to ensure you feel bad enough about it for my satisfaction.

her: How was your day?
means: ask me about my day because blah blah blah. I will drag it out for 20 minutes to ensure you feel bad enough about it for my satisfaction

her: where is XYZ, I cant find it?
means: Where the fark did you put XYZ, asshole.   I will drag it out for 20 minutes to ensure you feel bad enough about it for my satisfaction

him: How was your day?
her: fine.

means: you are screwed.
 
2013-02-20 05:09:03 PM

YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?


They should have known their wives had problems as soon as the wives said, "Yes" to their proposals.
 
2013-02-20 05:10:01 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, ...


No need, brother.  No need.

/sometimes wish I was one of those guys who hear but don't listen.
//sometimes wish I was one of those guys who don't hear.
 
2013-02-20 05:10:28 PM
 
2013-02-20 05:10:39 PM
I get that women need you to internalize that which they internalize and ponder vis a vis their own experiences and want to share them with you, in a way that they can understand you actually got, when they internalize THAT, but, and this is important.  Ladies?  We really can tell when you're just bouncing some crap off of use that one of your BFFs brought up as  this week's hoop to hold up for us to jump through so you can go back with your findings.  Oh, yes we can.  We'll work with you on the former but the latter is sort of insulting.  That's what house pets are for.
 
2013-02-20 05:10:48 PM

JNowe: Scientists have discovered that women possess higher levels of a "language protein" in their brains, which could explain why females are so talkative.

Which would be fine, if they had higher levels of content.


It's the same amount of content, but now with 50% more volume!
 
2013-02-20 05:10:50 PM

EightyEight: She's Talking Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHoJ26Gcp_E">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=KHoJ26Gcp_E


Songwriters so seldomly get to use Anal Hematoma in a love song.
 
2013-02-20 05:11:32 PM

PsiChick: More like: "We have never once even  heard of linguistic anthropology, because social sciences are for LOOZERS!". Seriously, hard sciences have  got to STFU about soft sciences, because  social sciences occasionally find out shiat that makes you look like a retard, such as the current theory that's so secure it's taught to 101 students: Women and men have differing speech patterns because of cultural hardwiring. Unless you find a pattern that occurs in  multiple different cultures before globalization, you are  not looking at biology, you're looking at culture.

I love hard sciences, but occasionally I wonder if they're trying to parody themselves. Just because you can't measure social influence with decimal points doesn't mean social influence doesn't exist. It just means you need to figure out a different measurement.


People who are big into hard science are very often spooked by softer science.  I think many of them find the idea that human behavior can be studied and understood intimidating.
 
2013-02-20 05:11:48 PM
It appears that my boyfriend and I are mutants of some sort.  He cannot seem to shut up once he gets started.  Tangents happen, I end up tuning him out, or even moving to another room in the house where the silence is.  BUT it just keeps going as he talks loudly to the TV and computer which interrupts the silence I seek in other rooms, so sometimes I end up nearly losing my mind and do indeed tell him to please shut up.  Maybe he has a woman's amount of this brain protein, and I may have less than the normal amount.
 
2013-02-20 05:11:58 PM
About 10 years ago I was dating this girl who had oral diarrhea. She'd call me on the phone
and at points I could put the phone down for 4 or 5 minute stretches and she'd continue to talk
and talk and talk. Meanwhile all I'm thinking is jebus she's still yacking and I could have said
what she's been going on about in 4 short sentences. She was lousy in the sack too.
 
2013-02-20 05:11:59 PM

ciberido: my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

As an experiment in high school, I spent a week not talking unless it was to answer a question or to ask a question about something I really needed to know.

People asked me if I was sick, had I lost my voice, why I had taken a vow of silence, et cetera.  I said about five things a day, and three of them were answers to questions a teacher had asked.


You should try that same experiment now (on Fark) to see if anything has changed since high school.
 
2013-02-20 05:12:19 PM
Did they also figure out how to fix it?
 
2013-02-20 05:13:19 PM
My favorite is:

Her: "I can't find X"
Me: "Did you look for it?"
Her: "Fark you! Why are you such a jerk???"


You are a jerk. "Can't find" means she already looked for it.

1)  Leave work
2) Call wife
3) Tell her I'm on the way home
4) She starts talking and won't shut up
5) Drive 20 minutes home
6) Walk in door while wife is still talking
7) Wife gets pissed


Switch to texting. Tell your wife that you won't text and drive because it is dangerous, text her when you leave work and then put your phone away.

Women don't want you to douse the flames by helping solve their problems, they want you to further stoke their "why me" fires by basically crying and boo-hooing along with them.

I wont speak for all the assholes (just me), but this is just venting/commiseration.


So men biatching is commiserating and women biatching is just obnoxious. Got it.
She is trying to do the work required to maintain a relationship and you guys are having none of it.
 
2013-02-20 05:13:22 PM
Two hundred comments in two hours.... Fark is a woman.
 
2013-02-20 05:13:59 PM

treesloth: bunner: "I mean, cause and effect. Have you tried NOT nagging me and seeing what happens?"

See, I've tried to explain that.  I've even had this conversation:

Her:  When are you going to do X?
Me:  I already did.
Her:  When?
Me:  This morning.
Her:  It's about time.
Me:  You first asked me to do it this morning.
Her:  I shouldn't have had to remind you.
Me:  You didn't.  I did it this morning.

And I have the hardest time getting across the fact that her apparent need to remind me of something is not the same as me needing to be reminded.  If anything, if she really thinks I'm that much of a farking idiot, it just deprives her of the opportunity to be surprised when I do it without being reminded... like I absolutely always do.


Pfft. My wife reminds me to do stuff I'm already doing.

Her: could you do the dishes?
Me (standing by the kitchen sink, sponge in hand, dishwasher open: As soon as I finish washing my balls, I'll get to it.
Her: What's wrong with you?
 
2013-02-20 05:14:31 PM
Of all the women in my life, my beloved mother is the absolute worst. Every 25 minute phone conversation with her is 23-minutes of her regaling me with all the details of what her little-old-lady friends did this past week (a neighborhood walk, widows' support group, whose grandkid is graduating from middle-school, who's getting a hip replacement, on and on and on).

But what is most head-shaking is that I've never met four-fifths of these septuagenarians. And the half-dozen that I have, I haven't seen them in-person in 25 years.  Jeebus.
 
2013-02-20 05:14:55 PM
TFA is probably full of crap, but I love the term "shut-up sausage" from some wiseass in the comments.
 
2013-02-20 05:15:42 PM

EightyEight: She's Talking Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHoJ26Gcp_E">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=KHoJ26Gcp_E


She's a Young Girl Talking about Herself
 
2013-02-20 05:16:04 PM

Primum non nocere: Of all the women in my life, my beloved mother is the absolute worst. Every 25 minute phone conversation with her is 23-minutes of her regaling me with all the details of what her little-old-lady friends did this past week (a neighborhood walk, widows' support group, whose grandkid is graduating from middle-school, who's getting a hip replacement, on and on and on).

But what is most head-shaking is that I've never met four-fifths of these septuagenarians. And the half-dozen that I have, I haven't seen them in-person in 25 years.  Jeebus.


She's trying to connect you to what is now her life.  Go and visit her.  She misses you.
 
2013-02-20 05:16:12 PM
I'm surprised no one has brought up the cell phone factor.

When there's a cell phone involved the amount of superfluous b.s. women feel the need to talk about goes up by a factor of about 39 brazillion.
 
2013-02-20 05:16:57 PM

AncientLurker: Ugh, I hear ya buddy. Mine used to do this immediately when I walked in the door from work. Just venting at me after a long day at the office. Tried to put a rule in for 30 minutes of quiet time after work but didn't last.
I found that the best thing to endure her ongoing biatching about everything was scotch.



Sounds like the standing 6pm session I have every night at my house. Scotch helps, but I can do the whole thing on autopilot now. The trick is to sprinkle in a few vague phrases when she stops long enough to take a breath. Some of my favorites include:


"She's the one who just had the baby, right?"

"The other women at work are threatened by your ideas."

"That sucks sweetheart, I'm sorry to hear that."

"I understand why that would be frustrating."

"You were right to react that way."


If you do it right, you don't have to have heard a god damn thing.
 
2013-02-20 05:17:53 PM
Fascinating.
 
2013-02-20 05:18:24 PM

AncientLurker: socquitor: Worst-er is the "midnight download.".....

Ugh, I hear ya buddy.  Mine used to do this immediately when I walked in the door from work. Just venting at me after a long day at the office.  Tried to put a rule in for 30 minutes of quiet time after work but didn't last.
I found that the best thing to endure her ongoing biatching about everything was scotch.


The best I managed was to get her to start saying "hello" before the biatching starts.  That gives me time to grab whiskey.
 
2013-02-20 05:19:00 PM
Used to have a lot of arguments that seemed like skew lines. I had one point, she had another. I noticed she would talk in one direction and I wanted another.

But I like the science, not the touchy feely self-help books.

So, since we like to read out loud to each other on road trips, while the other drives, we read Deborah Tannen's "You Just Don't Understand." Saved our marriage. Gave out dozens of copies to friends.

She is a linguist that studies how the different genders talk. TL;DR of her book: women talk in terms of association, horizontally, ("she's my best friend." "Let's do this together." That clique stuff.) but men talk in terms of power and control, vertically ("I'm the king." "Who's in charge here?" The totem pole of power).

So, when my wife asks, "Are you up for a movie tonight?" she's thinking "Let's do something together." but I'm hearing "I'm telling you that I've made plans for us."
 
2013-02-20 05:19:18 PM

ciberido: PsiChick: More like: "We have never once even  heard of linguistic anthropology, because social sciences are for LOOZERS!". Seriously, hard sciences have  got to STFU about soft sciences, because  social sciences occasionally find out shiat that makes you look like a retard, such as the current theory that's so secure it's taught to 101 students: Women and men have differing speech patterns because of cultural hardwiring. Unless you find a pattern that occurs in  multiple different cultures before globalization, you are  not looking at biology, you're looking at culture.

I love hard sciences, but occasionally I wonder if they're trying to parody themselves. Just because you can't measure social influence with decimal points doesn't mean social influence doesn't exist. It just means you need to figure out a different measurement.

People who are big into hard science are very often spooked by softer science.  I think many of them find the idea that human behavior can be studied and understood intimidating.


I think it's partly because, in America at least, we have this idea that a true scientist is unemotional, hyperliteral, and incapable of relating to other humans floating around our grab bag of cultural stereotypes. Drives me farking nuts. If you're scared of emotions because you can't play with decimals, that's called social anxiety, not rational behavior.
 
2013-02-20 05:19:38 PM

DeltaPunch: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

lol, seriously. My wife just asks me to tell her something interesting in order to start a conversation about some current event, or perhaps something that happened during my day. Apparently these Farkers are getting their wives from the bimbo store...


Is this a national chain? I...I'm asking for a friend.
 
2013-02-20 05:19:42 PM

lordluzr: Two hundred comments in two hours.... Fark is a woman.


OMG. Thread over!
 
2013-02-20 05:21:51 PM

AncientLurker: This thread is golden.
 My personal fav is when the x-wife used to tell me what was wrong in any situation, I would offer advice on how to fix it, which made me a jerk (if you ask me for advice, you should expect it).


She didn't ask you for advice.  She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

The problem is, you misinterpreted "I want to tell you about this problem" as "I want you to tell me how to fix this problem."

It's not exclusively a gender problem (both men and women do it, not all men do it), but it seems to happen more often with men for whatever reason.
 
2013-02-20 05:22:41 PM

bunner: Smelly Pirate Hooker: I'd be sympathetic, but so many of you are also assholes, so I figure you deserve it.

Smelly Pirate Hooker: LOL. You used the word "love," as if you actually meant it.

Yeah, that's my limit for smirky misandry for the day.  *click*


Oh no. But extra points for using the word "misandry." I think you get a free month of Total Fark for that.
 
2013-02-20 05:22:55 PM

WhippingBoy: wife


Yep.  This is my wife.

Her: We need cat food.
Me: Yeah. (walk out of room) I hear her mumbling as I walk away.. 5 minutes elapses and I walk by kitchen..
Her: So?
Me: So what?
Her: I thought you were getting ready, I told you I was going to have you pick up some other stuff when you went to get cat food here's a list.
Me: realization that I'm a non essential component in our conversations.
 
2013-02-20 05:23:09 PM
Chris Rock addressed this, actually.

Video.  NSFW language.  Hilarious, and like most comedy, a bit of an exaggeration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQaLYD6E9Wk
 
2013-02-20 05:24:15 PM

NotARocketScientist: So men biatching is commiserating and women biatching is just obnoxious. Got it.
She is trying to do the work required to maintain a relationship and you guys are having none of it.


www.trilobite.org
 
2013-02-20 05:25:14 PM

DeltaPunch: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

lol, seriously. My wife just asks me to tell her something interesting in order to start a conversation about some current event, or perhaps something that happened during my day. Apparently these Farkers are getting their wives from the bimbo store...


Or that your wife is a boring person with nothing interesting to say so she relies on you.
 
2013-02-20 05:26:35 PM

Bronzemom: Bull manure.  Look how many words you knuckleheads use to claim women talk too much.
enough said


Hush, woman! We are trying to fix things.
 
2013-02-20 05:26:37 PM

YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?


Clearly, you are not married.
 
2013-02-20 05:27:10 PM
My wife is horrible at communicating.  Incomplete thoughts, wrong words used, etc...

We just had a conversation about it the other day.  She has a bad habit of doing stuff like not actually pointing at things when asking for help retrieving something or whatnot.  She will "point" by looking at the object and then say "can you hand me that".  This typically leads to me or some other poor soul desperately trying to guess what "that" may be while being polite about it.  Meanwhile she gets more and more frustrated.  But dare ask "what does that mean" and she will have some roundabout reason as to why you should have known what she was wanting because she mentioned it in a conversation which happened anywhere from 15 minutes to two days ago.  And she will drone on about it for at least 5 minutes.

I used to think that it was reserved just for me but I've watched her go through this with others.  I tell her to take time, expend the syllables, and just explain what she wants.  The funny part is how frustrated she gets with everyone.  "Nobody ever listens to me!".  I told her we are listening, she just sucks at talking.
 
2013-02-20 05:27:15 PM
Mine does the talk at you no matter where you are in the house in relation to her.  Loves doing it while I'm in the shower, water beating against my head and she's in another room talking.  Pissed that I don't respond to her.

There's also the constant need to know what time I'm gonna be home.  Later is never an acceptable answer.  Gotta be a precise time whether I know when I'll make it home or not.  And if I say around 8:30, arriving home later than 8:35 will get me an earful.  I don't like drinking and driving, so if I go out with the boys I usually just crash on one of their couches.  She always gets pissed when I can't tell her what time I'll be home in the morning.  I'll leave when I wake up.  What time is that?  No clue, I'm gonna pass out and wake up whenever.

Also a high-on so she thinks she can manipulate me when arguing by saying I did or did not say things.  It's usually a successful tactic, but she uses it every time we fight, even when I haven't smoked in weeks.  Too easy to catch on to her.

And I ignore her when the TV is on.  It's a shiatty thing for me to do, I know.  But if she wants to have a deep conversation, just turn it off.  Don't talk to me about inane crap, then throw in something important in the middle of my show, I tuned you out awhile ago.

I'm not mad if I'm being silent.  I don't feel the need to fill every silence with inane conversation.  We share everything with each other, we were bound to run out of topics of conversation eventually.

I get tons of sex so I don't mind any of this stuff too much.  I dread the day when that dries up though.  Not sure how much I'd put up with otherwise.
 
2013-02-20 05:27:30 PM

ciberido: AncientLurker: This thread is golden.
 My personal fav is when the x-wife used to tell me what was wrong in any situation, I would offer advice on how to fix it, which made me a jerk (if you ask me for advice, you should expect it).

She didn't ask you for advice.  She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

The problem is, you misinterpreted "I want to tell you about this problem" as "I want you to tell me how to fix this problem."

It's not exclusively a gender problem (both men and women do it, not all men do it), but it seems to happen more often with men for whatever reason.


Men fix things. It's what we do, and what we've been trained to do. It takes years to figure out that women don't want you to fix their problems. It might take less time f they'd just farking tell us in the first place. But most of them don't. We can't read minds.
 
2013-02-20 05:27:55 PM
Mandatory viewing?

/I kid Farkettes, I kid
//mostly
 
2013-02-20 05:28:49 PM

PsiChick: ...Anthropology actually discusses the difference between a social trait and a biological trait as part of its field. Like, again, this is what they teach in 101. As do most other social sciences. Part of the waist-hip thing is that any biological inclination would be very slight, like TFA--so slight as to be, for all intents and purposes, nonexistant. Humans do not have many true instincts, and there are some behaviors that pattern across all cultures. Schizophrenia, for example, manifests the same way in every culture. That's a biological trait.

This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture, it would be unnoticeable, which means there's very little value in the real world in looking at it as an indicator, although certainly it's of value to further research. But at some point, .00000000000000001 is just 0.


Yeah, they discuss it, and they often get it wrong, because they are generally lay people with respect to the expression of biological traits in behaviour who have distinct biases against the very concept. I've got degrees in sociology and psychology. I've taken those 101 classes you speak of and they get a lot wrong when they talk about the natural science when you compare it with what the natural sciences are actually saying (and vice versa, of course; both sides of this issue exasperate me).

To continue the example, the waist-hip thing is found everywhere, in wildly varying cultures all over the world. It's common as dirt and it works cross culturally, in that people from one culture who share the trait will be able to accurately judge the relative attractiveness of women from very different cultures who share that particular trait. There are some culttures that display very different tendencies, but all of those are very specific to the particular cultures, and do not generalize well. The culture can overwrite the basic tendency. But the tendency is there, and it still expresses itself quite strongly in those cases where there is not a cultural norm overwriting it. To ignore that information because it conflicts with the academic ideology of one's discipline is the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty. It is literally a transgression against the critical methodology that we are all supposed to use in the sciences to determine the validity of a knowledge claim.

And the notion that humans do not have true instincts is really garbage. Psychology has been disproving this over and over again for literally decades, and the social sciences have been ignoring this. Sociobiology is still a bad word in the social sciences, despite the enormous body of knowledge coming out of neuropsychology about the ways that our brains determine our cognition and behaviour. It is ludicrous to think that the influence of that biology stops the moment you go from the individual behaviourstudied by psychology to the group behaviours studied by the social sciences. It's utterly farcical, especially given the power of the analytical statistics we now have that can track influence through multiple levels of analysis. Humans have all kinds of inbuilt biases and automatic responses that we simply aren't aware of most of the time, that our cognition often doesn't even let us acknowledge because it contradcts the personal narrative of constant awarenes and autonomy (which is an illusion, btw).

The thing is that the social sciences have a lingering aspect of human exceptionalism to them. We retain this notion that we are somehow distinctly different from animals in our cognition and behaviour and it's bullshiat. Everything we do, cognitively speaking, can be detected in other animals. The difference is in degree, not kind. In fact the rarest traits, the ones that are closest to unique, are not things like cultural transmission of information, but rather obscure things like beat induction, the ability to bob along to a beat. Last I checked, the only other animals that do that are parrots, of all things.

The trick is that human instincts express themselves though our complex social behaviours. They are not as simple to identify as they are in animals that do not have our level of cognitive complexity. That doesn't mean they aren't there. And absolutely does not give the social sciences the mandate to assume a priori that biological influences are inconsequential to human behaviour.

So you want to show that a 30% difference between the sexes in the level of a protein directly related to vocalization in other species does nothing at all in humans? Do the work. Find a way to test it, and run the experiements to isolate the effect and show it does nothing. Because the idea that this has an influence on human behaviour is not implausible, and would be consistent with the results found so far (note, no one is claiming it is completely deterministic). It's not the only influence, but that does not mean it is not an influence. Most social phenomenon do not have single causes, even if you limit yourself only to sociocultural effects. To pretend that they do is a novice mistake. Until you do the work, the only claim that you can make is "We don't know if this has an effect or not". You can not claim this cannot have an effect, and that only social effects matter. That is an unfounded assertion that derives from institutional biases and it is not logically defensible as an argument in any scientific discipline.
 
2013-02-20 05:29:07 PM

DSF6969: prickly pete v2: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, this past Sunday evening:

Wife: Jen wants to bra shopping. Maybe at Nordys.
Me: Nordys?
Wife: Nordstroms.
Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not

Monday afternoon
Wife: I'll head straight home after work.
Me: OK, as opposed to?
Wife: Going bra shopping
Me: didnt realize you had made a plan to that
Wife: i mentioned that yesterday. about going with Jen
Me: I know, you mentioned it, didn't know you had planned to do so today
Wife: well, no matter. it's not happening. I can't believe you don't listen to me. Why don't you love me?
Me: OK What the hell?

FTFY

So much this.


That sounds familiar.  I've actually had to ask "What the fark just happened?" after some unknown female glitch caused absolutely nothing to escalate into an argument.
 
2013-02-20 05:29:23 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them


INTJ solidarity, yo. Virtual high-5.
 
2013-02-20 05:29:52 PM

PsiChick: Humans do not have many true instincts,


Wat.

and there are some behaviors that pattern across all cultures. Schizophrenia, for example, manifests the same way in every culture.

Horseshiat, it's demon possession, it's the voice of one god, another, across cultures.

That's a biological trait.

Yeah mostly.

This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture

Agreed, this diff could be all cultural.
 
2013-02-20 05:31:04 PM
My favorite woman-eese lately "Have you heard of that website, you know, that one, the one that does all the stuff?"
 
2013-02-20 05:31:43 PM

robbiex0r: I'm perturbed by stories that don't involve last names.  I'm not old, but by now I know many "Katies", "Daves", "Jens" and others.  When a story starts "I saw Jen today and (wwwwwwwwwoooooordddds) and we're invited over to dinner" I kinda need to know which Jen we're talking about, otherwise I'd just ignore me not fully knowing what is happening. Now when I pause her to ask, it's like I'm the idiot for not knowing who she's talking about.  If that's not going on, then it's gratuitous use of pronouns to the point where I can't follow a story.


I have that problem with people a lot (pronouns, assuming I know who they're talking about, etc.).  But  I haven't noticed women doing it more than men.
 
2013-02-20 05:31:50 PM
 
2013-02-20 05:32:38 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them


You have a lot of cats, don't you?
 
2013-02-20 05:34:27 PM

ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.


Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.
 
2013-02-20 05:34:59 PM
There's three pieces of advice that I give to young guys in order to prepare them for marriage:
1. Learn to drink (not binge-drink, but sanity-drink)
2. Convert you next paycheque to $100 bills. Light a bonfire. Slowly throw each bill into the fire and watch it burn
3. On a nightly basis, watch to most boring TV channel your provider offers (local council meeting, etc). Attempt to maintain your interest and keep eye contact with the TV. Start with 10 minutes, and work your way up to an hour
 
2013-02-20 05:34:59 PM
catmacros.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-20 05:35:05 PM
KiltedBastich


---------------
-wall of text-
--------------                -

you're like a woman.
 
2013-02-20 05:36:30 PM

lordluzr: Two hundred comments in two hours.... Fark is a woman.


Notice how internet comments are usually relatively succinct and get the point across without superfluous information? Internet savvy people know that long text blocks will largely get ignored. This same rule applies to most men and real life conversations.
 
2013-02-20 05:36:32 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.


My mom did this to me the other night at dinner.

Her: "I think I'll have a glass of wine with dinner"
Me: "OK"

Her (later at dinner): "WHY DIDN'T YOU GET ME A GLASS OF WINE?!?"
Ladies, if you have a request please please please phrase it as one, not as a statement we're supposed to interpret.
 
2013-02-20 05:36:39 PM
blatz514:
1.bp.blogspot.com

Contrast with:
25.media.tumblr.com

So:
A: "What's wrong?"
B: "Nothing."

If A if female and B is male, then A is neurotic to be concerned and biatches be crazy.
If A is male and B is female, then B is neurotic to hide her feelings and biatches be crazy.

/the one valid conclusion is that biatches can't win
 
2013-02-20 05:39:46 PM

sethen320: My wife is horrible at communicating.  Incomplete thoughts, wrong words used, etc...

We just had a conversation about it the other day.  She has a bad habit of doing stuff like not actually pointing at things when asking for help retrieving something or whatnot.  She will "point" by looking at the object and then say "can you hand me that".  This typically leads to me or some other poor soul desperately trying to guess what "that" may be while being polite about it.  Meanwhile she gets more and more frustrated.


Nepalis often point with their lips.  It seems weird at first, but it homes in handy sometimes, mainly when both hands are already occupied.

Apparently some other cultures also point with their lips, as well.
 
2013-02-20 05:40:22 PM

WhippingBoy: My wife also has this unshakable belief that as long as I'm in the house, no matter what room I'm in or what's going on around her, that if she talks, I can somehow  hear her.

This morning: I'm in the downstairs shower, with the radio blasting. I finish, and walk upstairs...

Her: "Well???"
Me: "Well what?"
Her: "Weren't you listening to me???"
Me: ???


I didn't know I had an alt.
 
2013-02-20 05:40:39 PM

PsiChick: I think it's partly because, in America at least, we have this idea that a true scientist is unemotional, hyperliteral, and incapable of relating to other humans floating around our grab bag of cultural stereotypes. Drives me farking nuts. If you're scared of emotions because you can't play with decimals, that's called social anxiety, not rational behavior.


This is a perfect example of the kind of thing I get exasperated about. That's a common lay stereotype, it is true. It is one shared by many social scientists, it is also true. What is not true is that all or even most natural scientists share it. I have met many garrulous and friendly natural scientists. Research at the university level and teaching requires the ability to deal with human contact, especially in psychology and human biology and other natural science fields that study people.

I have literally studied and worked in both the social milieu of the natural scientists and the social milieu of the social scientists, and as I said I have degrees in both sociology and psychology. Each group holds misperceptions about the work and habits of the other group. It's literally basic tribalism and academic territoriality and it drives me farking nuts every time I have to deal with it because the universe at large does not give the slightest of shiats about the arbitrary boundaries we set up to describe the limits of our system of categorization of knowledge. Human biology and human society do not exist in discrete separate spheres that can be reduced to neat and seperate categories. They are instead a hugely complex system of interacting elements where multiple causality and overlapping influences are the norm, not the exception, and the idiotic wrangling over whose theories should get precedence when attempting to explain it is stupid and counterproductive.

Argh. End rant. As you may be able to tell, this is one of my personal pet peeves with regards to academia and the politics thereof.
 
2013-02-20 05:43:09 PM

fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.


She doesn't want the problem solved.
 
2013-02-20 05:44:10 PM

doubled99: you're like a woman.


No, like an academic. The cultural norms are different. We're all long-winded and pedantic, men and women both.
 
2013-02-20 05:46:28 PM

ciberido: sethen320: My wife is horrible at communicating.  Incomplete thoughts, wrong words used, etc...

We just had a conversation about it the other day.  She has a bad habit of doing stuff like not actually pointing at things when asking for help retrieving something or whatnot.  She will "point" by looking at the object and then say "can you hand me that".  This typically leads to me or some other poor soul desperately trying to guess what "that" may be while being polite about it.  Meanwhile she gets more and more frustrated.

Nepalis often point with their lips.  It seems weird at first, but it homes in handy sometimes, mainly when both hands are already occupied.

Apparently some other cultures also point with their lips, as well.


sethen320, congratulations on marrying a Nepali. That's what makes America the great melting pot.

Plus, your children will be awesome mountain climbers.
 
2013-02-20 05:47:48 PM

Ed Grubermann: ciberido: AncientLurker: This thread is golden.
 My personal fav is when the x-wife used to tell me what was wrong in any situation, I would offer advice on how to fix it, which made me a jerk (if you ask me for advice, you should expect it).

She didn't ask you for advice.  She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

The problem is, you misinterpreted "I want to tell you about this problem" as "I want you to tell me how to fix this problem."

It's not exclusively a gender problem (both men and women do it, not all men do it), but it seems to happen more often with men for whatever reason.

Men fix things. It's what we do, and what we've been trained to do. It takes years to figure out that women don't want you to fix their problems. It might take less time f they'd just farking tell us in the first place. But most of them don't. We can't read minds.



Yes, but if you really want to assign blame, it's as much the man's fault for assuming without asking that the woman wanted a solution as it is her fault for not explicitly telling the man that she didn't want one.  Essentially, they're equally at fault, her for assuming he'd operate by "the women's rules" and him for assuming she'd operate by "the men's rules."

But for what it's worth, I take that into account now.  I've actually started prefacing stories with, "Now, I'm not asking you what I should do, but ..."

Also, and perhaps more importantly, I try to accept advice as "his way of telling me he cares" rather than "him telling me what to do."    It actually helps a lot.

(And again, it's not exclusively a male-vs-female thing.)
 
2013-02-20 05:48:16 PM
I typically walk around with an image of myself as a bad-ass apex predator, but whenever my wife begins a sentence with the word, "So..." (ellipses intentional) I freeze like a baby bunny in the underbrush. Sometimes, if I stay still and silent long enough, I blend back into her perceptual background and escape the hour-long, one-sided conversation about nothing she was about to initiate.
 
2013-02-20 05:48:28 PM

Talos: I'm surprised no one has brought up the cell phone factor.

When there's a cell phone involved the amount of superfluous b.s. women feel the need to talk about goes up by a factor of about 39 brazillion.


A magic puck that lets her talk to anybody, any time and anywhere?  Of COURSE it does.  Just be thankful they're not typing on it while piloting an SUV they can barely see over the steering wheel of.
 
2013-02-20 05:48:49 PM

Magnanimous_J: "She's the one who just had the baby, right?"

"The other women at work are threatened by your ideas."

"That sucks sweetheart, I'm sorry to hear that."

"I understand why that would be frustrating."

"You were right to react that way."


Shakeweight: Why don't you tell me about that woman you hate at work.
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com
Shakeweight: What.
Shakeweight: What.
 
2013-02-20 05:50:33 PM
I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!
 
2013-02-20 05:51:01 PM

ciberido: Yes, but if you really want to assign blame, it's as much the man's fault for assuming without asking that the woman wanted a solution as it is her fault for not explicitly telling the man that she didn't want one.  Essentially, they're equally at fault, her for assuming he'd operate by "the women's rules" and him for assuming she'd operate by "the men's rules."


Well that's true, until you realize that talking about a problem without seeking a solution is a galactic waste of time and pointless beyond belief.  This is particularly true when the solution is as simple as "have you considered talking to ______ and saying everything you just told me?"
 
2013-02-20 05:51:51 PM

Snarfangel: ciberido: sethen320: My wife is horrible at communicating.  Incomplete thoughts, wrong words used, etc...

We just had a conversation about it the other day.  She has a bad habit of doing stuff like not actually pointing at things when asking for help retrieving something or whatnot.  She will "point" by looking at the object and then say "can you hand me that".  This typically leads to me or some other poor soul desperately trying to guess what "that" may be while being polite about it.  Meanwhile she gets more and more frustrated.

Nepalis often point with their lips.  It seems weird at first, but it homes in handy sometimes, mainly when both hands are already occupied.

Apparently some other cultures also point with their lips, as well.

sethen320, congratulations on marrying a Nepali. That's what makes America the great melting pot.

Plus, your children will be awesome mountain climbers.


No, she's from here...just weird.
 
2013-02-20 05:52:25 PM

KiltedBastich: PsiChick: ...Anthropology actually discusses the difference between a social trait and a biological trait as part of its field. Like, again, this is what they teach in 101. As do most other social sciences. Part of the waist-hip thing is that any biological inclination would be very slight, like TFA--so slight as to be, for all intents and purposes, nonexistant. Humans do not have many true instincts, and there are some behaviors that pattern across all cultures. Schizophrenia, for example, manifests the same way in every culture. That's a biological trait.

This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture, it would be unnoticeable, which means there's very little value in the real world in looking at it as an indicator, although certainly it's of value to further research. But at some point, .00000000000000001 is just 0.

Yeah, they discuss it, and they often get it wrong, because they are generally lay people with respect to the expression of biological traits in behaviour who have distinct biases against the very concept. I've got degrees in sociology and psychology. I've taken those 101 classes you speak of and they get a lot wrong when they talk about the natural science when you compare it with what the natural sciences are actually saying (and vice versa, of course; both sides of this issue exasperate me).

To continue the example, the waist-hip thing is found everywhere, in wildly varying cultures all over the world. It's common as dirt and it works cross culturally, in that people from one culture who share the trait will be able to accurately judge the relative attractiveness of women from very different cultures who share that particular trait. There are some culttures that display very different tendencies, but all of those are very specific to the particular cultures, and do not generalize well. The culture can overwrite the basic tendency. But the tendency is there, a ...


Controlled studies of word use between women and men have consistently found no significant difference between words per day.
The article links another article as 'evidence' for the 7k word per day difference, yet the linked article absolutely does not support that claim.

Other than anecdote, there's really no evidence that men speak less (or women speak more). Rather, there's a wide range of speech use in both men and women, and we tend to remember individuals who violate the norm (for example, women who talk a lot).  A lot of this is confirmation bias.

There are gender differences in what people talk about, but not how much across the day.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11762186

Disagree? Show me a well documented, peer reviewed, adequately controlled experiment that shows a significant difference between gender that's not explained by other factors.
 
2013-02-20 05:52:41 PM

Raoul Eaton: If we need to make a simple functional phone call and time is short, "Mrs. Eaton" has me make the call, even though she likes talking on the phone and I don't.  Make that, because she likes talking on the phone and I don't.  She can take 20 minutes to ask if we should bring a salad to the potluck, and I'll do the same conversation in less than a minute.  Each of us is in awe of the other on this.


Now that there is how to make the best out of a potentially difficult situation.  And doing that repeatedly is the secret to a good marriage.

I salute you, sir.
 
2013-02-20 05:53:12 PM

noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!


I never get past two suggestions before giving up and telling her to pick something, ANYTHING, because I'm not her goddamn event planner.
 
2013-02-20 05:53:56 PM

noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!


SO MUCH THIS
 
2013-02-20 05:56:13 PM
My current GF is a pre-school teacher.

I swear to God I know all the kids' names and who they're friends with and I've never walked in the door of this place.
 
2013-02-20 05:58:42 PM

oldfarthenry: In the early years of our marriage I used to be able to stop Mrs, Henry's babble-yakking with a loud burst of flatulence.
Now all it does is switch the subject noise to "poor air quality", "stubborn laundry stains" and "demands to see a doctor".


Aaand I just snerk'd trail mix out of my nose.
 
2013-02-20 05:59:46 PM
So, what have we learned from all of these battle of the sexes threads?  Here's what I've learned.  Gender based habits and perceptions lead to cultural constructs, some useful, some not, and men and women hate it when somebody who isn't another man or another women calls them on their crap.  I doubt there will be a forthcoming thesis.
 
2013-02-20 06:00:26 PM
I admit, I'm a chatterbox. I'll start going on and on about nothing, but I'll stop midway and ask if I'm annoying him. He'll just tell me it's lulling, especially if we're having this conversation before bed.

/shrug
 
2013-02-20 06:01:00 PM

gmpathfinder: KiltedBastich: PsiChick: ...Anthropology actually discusses the difference between a social trait and a biological trait as part of its field. Like, again, this is what they teach in 101. As do most other social sciences. Part of the waist-hip thing is that any biological inclination would be very slight, like TFA--so slight as to be, for all intents and purposes, nonexistant. Humans do not have many true instincts, and there are some behaviors that pattern across all cultures. Schizophrenia, for example, manifests the same way in every culture. That's a biological trait.

This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture, it would be unnoticeable, which means there's very little value in the real world in looking at it as an indicator, although certainly it's of value to further research. But at some point, .00000000000000001 is just 0.

Yeah, they discuss it, and they often get it wrong, because they are generally lay people with respect to the expression of biological traits in behaviour who have distinct biases against the very concept. I've got degrees in sociology and psychology. I've taken those 101 classes you speak of and they get a lot wrong when they talk about the natural science when you compare it with what the natural sciences are actually saying (and vice versa, of course; both sides of this issue exasperate me).

To continue the example, the waist-hip thing is found everywhere, in wildly varying cultures all over the world. It's common as dirt and it works cross culturally, in that people from one culture who share the trait will be able to accurately judge the relative attractiveness of women from very different cultures who share that particular trait. There are some culttures that display very different tendencies, but all of those are very specific to the particular cultures, and do not generalize well. The culture can overwrite the basic tendency. But the tende ...


Nope. Nobody has any need to respond to you. In the culture of the majority of users on this site, men speak far less than women. There is no more need to cite evidence than to convince you that the sky is the same color where I live as where you live. It's not up for debate; your questions are neither helpful nor permitted.

Women talk more than men. Now, on with the thread.
 
2013-02-20 06:03:49 PM
DNRTFA or the CT.

i.imgur.com

All you need to know.
 
2013-02-20 06:03:59 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them


Amen, sister. INTP here; I had to tell my sister that, while I was excited that she thought she had met 'the one,' I wasn't going to be the best choice to

PanicAttack: my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them

As an ISTJ, I completely agree.


INTP here. Yep.
 
2013-02-20 06:05:11 PM

fusillade762: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

My mom did this to me the other night at dinner.

Her: "I think I'll have a glass of wine with dinner"
Me: "OK"

Her (later at dinner): "WHY DIDN'T YOU GET ME A GLASS OF WINE?!?"
Ladies, if you have a request please please please phrase it as one, not as a statement we're supposed to interpret.


Mrs. B's preferred phraseology is "Do you want to X" which can be loosely translated as "You will X or you will hear about it for the next five days."
 
2013-02-20 06:05:37 PM

YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?


They are female.
 
2013-02-20 06:06:15 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: Humans do not have many true instincts,

Wat.

and there are some behaviors that pattern across all cultures. Schizophrenia, for example, manifests the same way in every culture.

Horseshiat, it's demon possession, it's the voice of one god, another, across cultures.

That's a biological trait.

Yeah mostly.

This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture

Agreed, this diff could be all cultural.


...No, I mean that while they  interpret it different ways, there's still a basic pattern: A schizophrenic will hallucinate, have disordered speech, etc.. The symptom list is basically the same, even if they say it's different.

KiltedBastich: PsiChick:  lots of words ...


A) Psychology is usually considered a social science. Neurology isn't, but psychology is. That's part of why psychology has a field devoted to uncovering the differences in psychology between cultures; there are very few hard and fast rules when you leave neurology behind.

B) I think you're mistaking my point. I'm not arguing that biology isn't an influence; I'm arguing that we all experience the same mild, universal biological urges, that our social training then translates on an  unconscious level. It  looks like instinct. It is  not. Let's ignore your waist-to-hip ratio example and look at your example of parrots bobbing their heads. Why is the human bobbing their head? To keep in time with the crappy Vanilla Ice song they're playing. Why is the parrot bobbing his head? He's saying you have something he wants--it's body language. That's  not the same thing.

What I'm talking about is better described using this example: In America, common methods of suicide are guns and knives, but in the Middle East, it's fire. Why? Because the same urge--a strong one, in this case--is translated differently due to  unrelated ideas about symbolism, sexyness of weapons, etc.. That's culture. It gives a lens for a biologically-based reaction, or sometimes psychologically-based. Now, language is  much more complicated, and from what I know feral children never learn it without someone actively teaching it to them. That indicates that it's insanely unlikely that any biology has such an effect on language that it would influence word count. But a researcher might find that if they hadn't studied social sciences and didn't realize language is not innate.
 
2013-02-20 06:07:50 PM

KiltedBastich: PsiChick: I think it's partly because, in America at least, we have this idea that a true scientist is unemotional, hyperliteral, and incapable of relating to other humans floating around our grab bag of cultural stereotypes. Drives me farking nuts. If you're scared of emotions because you can't play with decimals, that's called social anxiety, not rational behavior.

This is a perfect example of the kind of thing I get exasperated about. That's a common lay stereotype, it is true. It is one shared by many social scientists, it is also true. What is not true is that all or even most natural scientists share it. I have met many garrulous and friendly natural scientists. Research at the university level and teaching requires the ability to deal with human contact, especially in psychology and human biology and other natural science fields that study people.

I have literally studied and worked in both the social milieu of the natural scientists and the social milieu of the social scientists, and as I said I have degrees in both sociology and psychology. Each group holds misperceptions about the work and habits of the other group. It's literally basic tribalism and academic territoriality and it drives me farking nuts every time I have to deal with it because the universe at large does not give the slightest of shiats about the arbitrary boundaries we set up to describe the limits of our system of categorization of knowledge. Human biology and human society do not exist in discrete separate spheres that can be reduced to neat and seperate categories. They are instead a hugely complex system of interacting elements where multiple causality and overlapping influences are the norm, not the exception, and the idiotic wrangling over whose theories should get precedence when attempting to explain it is stupid and counterproductive.

Argh. End rant. As you may be able to tell, this is one of my personal pet peeves with regards to academia and the politics thereof.


...I said it was a stereotype. People do display stereotypes sometimes, but I certainly wasn't saying that everyone who goes into hard sciences actually acts like that. It's just the occasional idiot who then makes a Fark page.
 
2013-02-20 06:08:36 PM

Pilikia: I typically walk around with an image of myself as a bad-ass apex predator, but whenever my wife begins a sentence with the word, "So..." (ellipses intentional) I freeze like a baby bunny in the underbrush. Sometimes, if I stay still and silent long enough, I blend back into her perceptual background and escape the hour-long, one-sided conversation about nothing she was about to initiate.


Yep... I know exactly what you're talking about.
 
2013-02-20 06:09:13 PM
HER: "What did you buy at Walgreens today?
ME: "Where?"
HER: "Walgreens. I was looking at the checking account online and saw a debit card transaction for $5.43."
ME: "Oh. Tylenol. I had a bad headache."
HER: "I thought we were going to discuss debit card purchases together before making them as part of our new family budget plan."
ME: "Um..."
HER: "I mean, you can't just live your own separate life like this. We need to communicate if we're going to make this budget work. You know the Millers, right? They put all of their expenditures from each day into a spreadsheet together, every night, and they..."
ME: (leaving room)
HER: "Where are you going?"
ME: "Getting the Tylenol."
 
2013-02-20 06:09:44 PM

Klippoklondike: Article says women are better at small talk?  If the point at small talk is to say 20 gazillion words with no clear point and no single topic or direction then yes, women are great at small talk.  If the point is to kill time and actually learn something, men are better at small talk.


This is known as the "Bechdel Test".
 
2013-02-20 06:10:37 PM

Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS


Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.
 
2013-02-20 06:12:42 PM
My current wife has a bad habit of starting to talk to me from another room while I am doing something.   If I stop, give her attention, and ask her to start over, so I can catch up, I get something snarky like "The price of tea in China has doubled in the past year".

My Ex-wife is driving me crazy right now.   Our son won't talk to her anymore.   He wants nothing to do with her, no texts, no phone calls, no hugs, nothing.   I tried counseling, but it did no good, because all he would tell the counselor is "I don't like her anymore", and then go silent.   He won't talk to me about it.    I have full custody, but now she the ex- has a tax return and she is mad he won't deal with her.   Now she is all angry and screaming at me because the son won't give her a hug.    She is going to try and get Court Ordered Counseling to fix it.  I am a horrible father because I can't see how much pain he is in and I haven't done enough to fix it.    "He doesn't like you" and "He only appears to be in pain when he is dealing with you" just get cuss words.    She got a new fiance' at Christmas.    Now I am not a real man, like he is.   She always mistakes my politeness towards her as friendship.    I let her know this weekend that my veneer of civility is just that.   She stepped over the line, and now she is clear that the line exists.     I will probably end up in court within the month.
 
2013-02-20 06:13:18 PM
I love this thread. I am sorely tempted to show it to my girlfriend but I don't think she'll understand why. For me, it'd be about empathy, for her, it'd be able re-inforcing stereotypes and disrespecting her.
 
2013-02-20 06:14:04 PM
OgreMagi:Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

Probably because you silently mimed "In-n-Out burger" with hip thrusts. You have to admit that looks pretty obscene.
 
2013-02-20 06:16:02 PM
KiltedBastich:

Everything we do, cognitively speaking, can be detected in other animals. The difference is in degree, not kind.

It's fun to watch my dog think and to keep track of his facial expressions: he knows what "fairness" is for example, and he obviously tries to find ways to get me to not go home. (The ex keeps him.) I'll grant you he's not so smart in human terms, unlike cats he can't even read with his butt, but it's not a matter of anthropomorphizing  him as much as realizing we share some traits & capabilities.

I'd bet it's possible to find commonality with fungi and virii if you pay attention, though making friends with a mushroom is beyond my ken.
 
2013-02-20 06:17:37 PM

weiserfireman: My current wife has a bad habit of starting to talk to me from another room while I am doing something.   If I stop, give her attention, and ask her to start over, so I can catch up, I get something snarky like "The price of tea in China has doubled in the past year".


We have something similar, except it's as I'm leaving the room to go do something. Not just walking out, but actually a couple of feet through the door into the next room. For some reason it makes me short-circuit and do things I normally wouldn't, like forget my wallet on the table if I'm going to the hardware store, that kind of thing.
 
2013-02-20 06:18:11 PM

Acharne: I love this thread. I am sorely tempted to show it to my girlfriend but I don't think she'll understand why. For me, it'd be about empathy, for her, it'd be able re-inforcing stereotypes and disrespecting her.


Dude go alpha.

OgreMagi: Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS

Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.


You lucky barstad!!!
Wish I had thought of that.
 
2013-02-20 06:18:49 PM
Her: What do you want for supper?
Me: How about steak?
Her: I defrosted the salmon.
Me: OK, let's have the salmon.
Her: But I don't have an onion for the rice!
Me: I'll go get one.
Her: I don't really feel like cooking the salmon.
Me: OK.
Her: Unless you really want it.
Me: No, what would you like?
Her: But I defrosted the salmon, I don't want it to go bad.
Me: OK.
Her: What do you want with it.
Me: Why don't we have some of those frozen vegies we have.
Her: We could have steak, there's some in the freezer.
Me: Great.
Her: unless you want the salmon.
 
2013-02-20 06:20:36 PM

weiserfireman: I will probably end up in court within the month.


Some women seek a mate and a partner.  Some women seek leverage points.  And there are a metric f*ckton of them provided in the more arcane points of matrimonial law and all of it's overwrought postures.  Try and avoid the latter group as they are often largely uninterested in your happiness or theirs.
 
2013-02-20 06:21:02 PM

Glancing Blow: Her: What do you want for supper?
Me: How about steak?
Her: I defrosted the salmon.
Me: OK, let's have the salmon.
Her: But I don't have an onion for the rice!
Me: I'll go get one.
Her: I don't really feel like cooking the salmon.
Me: OK.
Her: Unless you really want it.
Me: No, what would you like?
Her: But I defrosted the salmon, I don't want it to go bad.
Me: OK.
Her: What do you want with it.
Me: Why don't we have some of those frozen vegies we have.
Her: We could have steak, there's some in the freezer.
Me: Great.
Her: unless you want the salmon.


"Both" is an acceptable answer. Then the leftovers can be eaten for the next meal, bypassing the circular discussion completely.
 
2013-02-20 06:21:11 PM

badgerb: Acharne: I love this thread. I am sorely tempted to show it to my girlfriend but I don't think she'll understand why. For me, it'd be about empathy, for her, it'd be able re-inforcing stereotypes and disrespecting her.

Dude go alpha.
OgreMagi: Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS

Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.

You lucky barstad!!!
Wish I had thought of that.


Going to In-N-Out or getting divorced?
 
2013-02-20 06:21:50 PM

farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?


I didn't.
 
2013-02-20 06:22:07 PM

Glancing Blow: Her: What do you want for supper?


"Pizza.  I ordered it"

"What about the salmon?"

"F*ck the salmon."
 
2013-02-20 06:22:17 PM

Pilikia: I typically walk around with an image of myself as a bad-ass apex predator, but whenever my wife begins a sentence with the word, "So..." (ellipses intentional) I freeze like a baby bunny in the underbrush. Sometimes, if I stay still and silent long enough, I blend back into her perceptual background and escape the hour-long, one-sided conversation about nothing she was about to initiate.


So back in the heyday of World of Warcraft, my then-gf got cornered at work by some obnoxious loudmouth coworker lady, who is one of those people who spends all day moving from cubicle to cubicle, complaining.  About anything and everything.  Just complaining.

The lady had just oozed up to my gf's desk when another (much younger) coworker walked past the office and yelled "Feign death!".  My gf (and nearby coworkers, equally tired of the biatchfest) laughed so loudly that the complainhose briefly paused in confusion, allowing them all to make up excuses for leaving.

The CSB ends with the gf and I breaking up a few months later, which is totally irrelevant to the rest of the story... and now I sound like she did.  Aigh.
 
2013-02-20 06:22:33 PM
 
2013-02-20 06:23:55 PM
 
2013-02-20 06:26:10 PM
I don't want to denigrate this important discussion, but am I the only one who thought, damn, that's a mighty come-over-here-big-boy mouth when the article opened.
 
2013-02-20 06:26:23 PM

vegaswench: I am going to teach a class. "How To Respond When Someone At Work Asks You How You Are 101."

Only accetable answer: "Fine, how are you?"

All other responses get an F.


I hate this shiat.  If you don't want to know how I am, don't ask the question, you shallow, disingenuous prick.  Also, don't stand there looking offended when I don't ask you the same question.  I don't ask unless I care enough about the answer to want a real one.
 
2013-02-20 06:26:51 PM

ennuie: Women don't talk more than men.


Yes they do. It's not up for debate- we're stuck to it. If you find a study that says otherwise, then there's a fault in the study.
Say, in picking students- they're forced to talk for school.
 
2013-02-20 06:27:11 PM

ennuie: Women don't talk more than men.


Yeah, but we say more.
 
2013-02-20 06:27:51 PM

L.D. Ablo: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Women do indeed do this. They also "tell" you things without actually doing so, then get angry when you forget.

For example, this past Sunday evening:

Wife: Jen wants to bra shopping. Maybe at Nordys.
Me: Nordys?
Wife: Nordstroms.
Me: That's the same amount of syllables.
Wife: (paraphrasing) They do all the fitting and sizing and what not

Monday afternoon
Wife: I'll head straight home after work.
Me: OK, as opposed to?
Wife: Going bra shopping
Me: didnt realize you had made a plan to that
Wife: i mentioned that yesterday. about going with Jen
Me: I know, you mentioned it, didn't know you had planned to do so today
Wife: well, no matter. it's not happening.
Me: OK

Women know what they're doing.  This is done to keep men off balance and uncertain, giving them the upper hand.


I hope you're joking. There's no use in being paranoid. People generally lack the wherewithal to deliberately harm you. The weapon of choice is typically incompetence.
 
2013-02-20 06:27:51 PM

ennuie: Women don't talk more than men.


It's like dog years. Every woman-word is worth seven man-words.
 
2013-02-20 06:28:11 PM

OgreMagi: Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS

Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.


I actually figured the way out of this trap.  This pattern means that she does not really want to be involved in deciding, except in a token way.

The correct answer is to say "Let's go to Chicken Festival.  There, I've just made the reservation.  Go get in the car, we are leaving now."

At this point, she either will go to Chicken Festival, or change it to something different - but there will be a resolution.  No more tail-chasing.
 
2013-02-20 06:28:13 PM
They conducted a small study on human children aged four to five years who had died in accidents less than 24 hours previously.

SCIENCE!
 
2013-02-20 06:28:22 PM

Precision Boobery: vegaswench: I am going to teach a class. "How To Respond When Someone At Work Asks You How You Are 101."

Only accetable answer: "Fine, how are you?"

All other responses get an F.

I hate this shiat.  If you don't want to know how I am, don't ask the question, you shallow, disingenuous prick.  Also, don't stand there looking offended when I don't ask you the same question.  I don't ask unless I care enough about the answer to want a real one.


My usually response is "meh".  That's it.  I don't ask back because I don't give a shiat how you are doing.  I don't even like you.  I tolerate you because I have to work with you, but when I finally snap, you're the first one I'm going to shoot....

Did I say that out loud?
 
2013-02-20 06:29:11 PM

Glancing Blow: I don't want to denigrate this important discussion, but am I the only one who thought, damn, that's a mighty come-over-here-big-boy mouth when the article opened.


Goes without saying...

/see what I did there?
 
2013-02-20 06:29:53 PM
Seeing what you guys have to say on this topic (so far. still reading) I can't help but be reminded of something. I see lots of people and hear them complain about their significant other.

He can't stand when she opens her mouth to talk. She thinks that he just ignores her when the TV is on. He can't stand it when she drags him shopping. She hates that he has no interest in her favorite hobbies. Etc, etc.

Why are these people together? Why? Are their relationships so shallow that the part where two people connect as human beings, and not just physically, not part of the equation?

I can't help but look at these people who seem to be connected only by their nether regions and feel sorry for them. I've had a pair of married guys laugh in my face at the idea that a third guy should discuss a financial decision with his wife, as her initial idea really wasn't very good. After they calmed down from the laughing one said, "you just don't understand the way it works." The way what works? Is the notion that you should be able to talk to your spouse about a serious topic so foreign to people?

I would never want to be in a relationship with, or married to, someone who I thought was vapid and annoying. I couldn't see myself being with someone who I didn't want to spend lots and lots of time with for every reason. Good conversation, overlapping hobbies, sense of humor, etc. I couldn't see myself seriously being with someone who I didn't see as my best friend.

/That's probably why I'm single.
//That and being ugly less than attractive.
 
2013-02-20 06:30:38 PM

fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.


If the problem is, for example, "I'm unhappy (because my boss is a biatch)" then yes, crying on a shoulder solves that part of problem which can be most immediately solved ("I'm unhappy").  The other problem ("my boss is a biatch") might have possible solutions (such as "find another job").  But, as I am an intelligent adult, I can think up those ideas myself without someone else telling me what to do.  What I cannot do for myself is cry on my own shoulder.

Or to try to put it in terms that you might relate to better, if I tell you my car is low on oil, yes, maybe it would be worthwhile to discuss what might have caused this, and yes, we could discuss the idea of you taking a look at the engine or taking the car to a garage for repairs, but what I need RIGHT NOW is somebody to put oil in the damn car.
 
2013-02-20 06:30:53 PM

noitsnot: OgreMagi: Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS

Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.

I actually figured the way out of this trap.  This pattern means that she does not really want to be involved in deciding, except in a token way.

The correct answer is to say "Let's go to Chicken Festival.  There, I've just made the reservation.  Go get in the car, we are leaving now."

At this point, she either will go to Chicken Festival, or change it to something different - but there will be a resolution.  No more tail-chasing.


All kidding aside, I agree that this is essentially correct, assuming there are no mitigating factors such as a blowout argument simmering just below the surface. Took me 16 years of marriage to figure it out.
 
2013-02-20 06:31:39 PM

Pilikia: ennuie: Women don't talk more than men.

It's like dog years. Every woman-word is worth seven man-words.


Is... is this like Scrabble? Let me just get a pencil and- oh... oh dear. I've misplaced my scorecard. How many points do I have again?
 
2013-02-20 06:32:01 PM

browntimmy: lordluzr: Two hundred comments in two hours.... Fark is a woman.

Notice how internet comments are usually relatively succinct and get the point across without superfluous information? Internet savvy people know that long text blocks will largely get ignored. This same rule applies to most men and real life conversations.


Yes, indeed, Fark comments are the very model of intelligence and succinctness.
 
2013-02-20 06:32:09 PM

Snarfangel: "Both" is an acceptable answer. Then the leftovers can be eaten for the next meal, bypassing the circular discussion completely.


You don't understand. There is no right answer. With respect to the woman, the conversation had absolutely nothing to do with what to have for dinner.
 
2013-02-20 06:33:04 PM

PsiChick: feral children never learn it without someone actively teaching it to them. That indicates that it's insanely unlikely that any biology has such an effect on language that it would influence word count. But a researcher might find that if they hadn't studied social sciences and didn't realize language is not innate.


Heritability even through adoption says otherwise.
 
2013-02-20 06:33:12 PM

Pilikia: noitsnot: OgreMagi: Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS

Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.

I actually figured the way out of this trap.  This pattern means that she does not really want to be involved in deciding, except in a token way.

The correct answer is to say "Let's go to Chicken Festival.  There, I've just made the reservation.  Go get in the car, we are leaving now."

At this point, she either will go to Chicken Festival, or change it to something different - but there will be a resolution.  No more tail-chasing.

All kidding aside, I agree that this is essentially correct, assuming there are no mitigating factors such as a blowout argument simmering just below the surface. Took me 16 years of marriage to figure it out.


I tried doing the "I've decided" bit and gave her the opportunity to suggest an alternative.  Her response was, "I don't know".  That's when I realized there was absolutely no right answer.  She was purposely setting me up to fail, thus my decision to say "fark it" and go to In-N-Out without her.
 
2013-02-20 06:33:16 PM

ennuie: Pilikia: ennuie: Women don't talk more than men.

It's like dog years. Every woman-word is worth seven man-words.

Is... is this like Scrabble? Let me just get a pencil and- oh... oh dear. I've misplaced my scorecard. How many points do I have again?


I don't know, but I'm taking my significant other to Quiznos.
 
2013-02-20 06:33:52 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: Seeing what you guys have to say on this topic (so far. still reading) I can't help but be reminded of something. I see lots of people and hear them complain about their significant other.

He can't stand when she opens her mouth to talk. She thinks that he just ignores her when the TV is on. He can't stand it when she drags him shopping. She hates that he has no interest in her favorite hobbies. Etc, etc.

Why are these people together? Why? Are their relationships so shallow that the part where two people connect as human beings, and not just physically, not part of the equation?

I can't help but look at these people who seem to be connected only by their nether regions and feel sorry for them. I've had a pair of married guys laugh in my face at the idea that a third guy should discuss a financial decision with his wife, as her initial idea really wasn't very good. After they calmed down from the laughing one said, "you just don't understand the way it works." The way what works? Is the notion that you should be able to talk to your spouse about a serious topic so foreign to people?

I would never want to be in a relationship with, or married to, someone who I thought was vapid and annoying. I couldn't see myself being with someone who I didn't want to spend lots and lots of time with for every reason. Good conversation, overlapping hobbies, sense of humor, etc. I couldn't see myself seriously being with someone who I didn't see as my best friend.

/That's probably why I'm single.
//That and being ugly less than attractive.


You're single because you're a sissy and you want a real regular woman, who in turn wants a real man. Advice you didn't ask for: forget about dating. Don't tell yourself you can't-distract yourself. Go get tons of hobbies, and start a business.
 
2013-02-20 06:34:14 PM

ennuie: Women don't talk more than men.


No, but they sure do nag more!
 
2013-02-20 06:35:16 PM

Yanks_RSJ: ciberido: Yes, but if you really want to assign blame, it's as much the man's fault for assuming without asking that the woman wanted a solution as it is her fault for not explicitly telling the man that she didn't want one.  Essentially, they're equally at fault, her for assuming he'd operate by "the women's rules" and him for assuming she'd operate by "the men's rules."

Well that's true, until you realize that talking about a problem without seeking a solution is a galactic waste of time and pointless beyond belief.  This is particularly true when the solution is as simple as "have you considered talking to ______ and saying everything you just told me?"


The fact that you are incapable of grasping the point to an action does not mean that action is pointless.
 
2013-02-20 06:36:30 PM

ennuie: Pilikia: ennuie: Women don't talk more than men.

It's like dog years. Every woman-word is worth seven man-words.

Is... is this like Scrabble? Let me just get a pencil and- oh... oh dear. I've misplaced my scorecard. How many points do I have again?


No, I'm really good at Scrabble. This is more like some weird Calvin-ball mash-up of Boggle, Battleship and the NYT crossword puzzle.
 
2013-02-20 06:37:04 PM

Pilikia: HER: "What did you buy at Walgreens today?
ME: "Where?"
HER: "Walgreens. I was looking at the checking account online and saw a debit card transaction for $5.43."
ME: "Oh. Tylenol. I had a bad headache."
HER: "I thought we were going to discuss debit card purchases together before making them as part of our new family budget plan."
ME: "Um..."
HER: "I mean, you can't just live your own separate life like this. We need to communicate if we're going to make this budget work. You know the Millers, right? They put all of their expenditures from each day into a spreadsheet together, every night, and they..."
ME: (leaving room)
HER: "Where are you going?"
ME: "Getting the Tylenol."


Part of any sane budget should include a certain amount of money for "random BS I need right, right now". Make it roll over every month, and keep track.  If you're constantly running out, it's probably time to cut back.  Beyond that, don't care.

New $2300 laptop, let's chat.  $5 for tylenol, I don't care.

/One of the advantages to having a roommate in the Bay Area is I can take the $800 I'm not spending on my own place and use half for student loans and half for stupid BS.  No need for a budget, since I'm living about $1500 a month below my paycheck, and $1000 below expectations.
//Once the tax return comes in, I'll have paid off $10,000 in debt in the last 3 months, I can have student loans gone in 6 months, and all debt in a year and a half.
///Of course, it's Bay Area, so I'll still be in crushing poverty, and putting half my salary towards rent if I get my own place, but I'll be in a better financial position at 25 than my parents are at 55.
 
2013-02-20 06:38:07 PM
Ed Grubermann:

She doesn't want the problem solved.

Understanding this makes it even MORE infuriating. It's farking pathetic and a huge turn off to listen to someone biatch about shiat they can't even be assed to fix even when the solution is simple as fark, as it is half the time. Lazy AND entitled.
 
2013-02-20 06:39:11 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: I would never want to be in a relationship with, or married to, someone who I thought was vapid and annoying. I couldn't see myself being with someone who I didn't want to spend lots and lots of time with for every reason. Good conversation, overlapping hobbies, sense of humor, etc. I couldn't see myself seriously being with someone who I didn't see as my best friend.


Most of these complaints are minor annoyances people have with their partners.  I love my wife to death, completely crazy about her.  But she does pull the talking to me no matter where I am in the house bit.  You'll never find someone who doesn't have annoying tendencies.  My wife probably hates a bunch of stuff I do too.  It's that old chestnut about not trespassing on others and forgiving those who trespass against you.  We do our best to not bug each other, but it's gonna happen.

You're likely single because you think people can't love each other when they're not 100% compatible in every aspect of their life.  As long as the important stuff works, the little things are just gravy
 
2013-02-20 06:39:13 PM

Snarfangel: ennuie: Pilikia: ennuie: Women don't talk more than men.

It's like dog years. Every woman-word is worth seven man-words.

Is... is this like Scrabble? Let me just get a pencil and- oh... oh dear. I've misplaced my scorecard. How many points do I have again?

I don't know, but I'm taking my significant other to Quiznos.


Good choice.
 
2013-02-20 06:39:27 PM

sethen320: I told her we are listening, she just sucks at talking.


Like pushing your luck, don't you?
 
2013-02-20 06:39:32 PM
 The post argument argument where I'm basically told that by definition my disagreeing with her point of view is the equivalent of my screaming at her.

In fact she'll even recreate my screaming at her in a threatening manner and using words and statements that I never even came close to using.

It can quite disconcerting that she is convinced that this was how it actually happened.
 
2013-02-20 06:40:05 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: feral children never learn it without someone actively teaching it to them. That indicates that it's insanely unlikely that any biology has such an effect on language that it would influence word count. But a researcher might find that if they hadn't studied social sciences and didn't realize language is not innate.

Heritability even through adoption says otherwise.


...Sorry? Are you saying people inherit language despite being adopted? No, they might be adopted when they've already learned a language, but a baby who's Russian but adopted to America will not speak Russian unless taught--I had actual friends who were adopted as children and came from Russia, and had been speaking English so long they'd forgotten huge chunks of Russian. How could they do that if language were inherent?
 
2013-02-20 06:40:32 PM

Acharne: I love this thread. I am sorely tempted to show it to my girlfriend but I don't think she'll understand why. For me, it'd be about empathy, for her, it'd be able re-inforcing stereotypes and disrespecting her.


Don't be too sure.  I'm finding it pretty damn amusing, mostly in a "They really think that?!" kind of way.
 
2013-02-20 06:40:43 PM

PsiChick: Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: feral children never learn it without someone actively teaching it to them. That indicates that it's insanely unlikely that any biology has such an effect on language that it would influence word count. But a researcher might find that if they hadn't studied social sciences and didn't realize language is not innate.

Heritability even through adoption says otherwise.

...Sorry? Are you saying people inherit language despite being adopted? No, they might be adopted when they've already learned a language, but a baby who's Russian but adopted to America will not speak Russian unless taught--I had actual friends who were adopted as children and came from Russia, and had been speaking English so long they'd forgotten huge chunks of Russian. How could they do that if a specific language were inherent?


I no can post today, apparently.
 
2013-02-20 06:41:15 PM

ciberido: What I cannot do for myself is cry on my own shoulder.


That sounds defeatist; I bet you could if you tried.
 
2013-02-20 06:41:46 PM

noitsnot: No more tail-chasing.


Why do you think he's taking her to dinner in the first place?
 
2013-02-20 06:43:12 PM

fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.


There ya go, thinking like a MAN again.
 
2013-02-20 06:43:57 PM

meyerkev: Pilikia: HER: "What did you buy at Walgreens today?
ME: "Where?"
HER: "Walgreens. I was looking at the checking account online and saw a debit card transaction for $5.43."
ME: "Oh. Tylenol. I had a bad headache."
HER: "I thought we were going to discuss debit card purchases together before making them as part of our new family budget plan."
ME: "Um..."
HER: "I mean, you can't just live your own separate life like this. We need to communicate if we're going to make this budget work. You know the Millers, right? They put all of their expenditures from each day into a spreadsheet together, every night, and they..."
ME: (leaving room)
HER: "Where are you going?"
ME: "Getting the Tylenol."

Part of any sane budget should include a certain amount of money for "random BS I need right, right now". Make it roll over every month, and keep track.  If you're constantly running out, it's probably time to cut back.  Beyond that, don't care.

New $2300 laptop, let's chat.  $5 for tylenol, I don't care.

/One of the advantages to having a roommate in the Bay Area is I can take the $800 I'm not spending on my own place and use half for student loans and half for stupid BS.  No need for a budget, since I'm living about $1500 a month below my paycheck, and $1000 below expectations.
//Once the tax return comes in, I'll have paid off $10,000 in debt in the last 3 months, I can have student loans gone in 6 months, and all debt in a year and a half.
///Of course, it's Bay Area, so I'll still be in crushing poverty, and putting half my salary towards rent if I get my own place, but I'll be in a better financial position at 25 than my parents are at 55.


See, I'm a guy, so I can totally appreciate this solid financial advice. Guys give each other a lot of good advice. But the truth is, that conversation was not about the purchase or our finances. Possibly it was about me having been too busy to call her at lunch that day, inadvertently hurting her feelings. Or she was worried her parents are getting old. Or her feet were cold. I'll never know.
 
2013-02-20 06:44:23 PM

Ed Grubermann: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

She doesn't want the problem solved.


Then why is she talking about it?
 
2013-02-20 06:45:22 PM

fredklein: Ed Grubermann: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

She doesn't want the problem solved.

Then why is she talking about it?


Exactly.
 
2013-02-20 06:46:02 PM
 
2013-02-20 06:48:05 PM

crabsno termites: sethen320: I told her we are listening, she just sucks at talking.

Like pushing your luck, don't you?


Yeah usually I don't catch those mistakes until they slip out.
 
2013-02-20 06:49:47 PM

PanicAttack: n, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and s


I'm an INTJ dating an ISTJ.  We'd both agree.

/I'm also often seen as cold because I don't do small talk
 
2013-02-20 06:50:15 PM

OgreMagi: badgerb: Acharne: I love this thread. I am sorely tempted to show it to my girlfriend but I don't think she'll understand why. For me, it'd be about empathy, for her, it'd be able re-inforcing stereotypes and disrespecting her.

Dude go alpha.
OgreMagi: Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS

Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.

You lucky barstad!!!
Wish I had thought of that.

Going to In-N-Out or getting divorced?


Depends on how much alimony he had to pay.
Having said that it sounds like getting away from this biatch was worth it at any price.
I do like an In-N-Out burger every once in awhile though.
 
2013-02-20 06:50:39 PM

badgerb: DNRTFA or the CT.

[i.imgur.com image 495x354]

All you need to know.


I'm adding absolutely nothing to the conversation, but every time I see a duck now I just see a bird wearing a dog mask...
 
2013-02-20 06:53:45 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: Seeing what you guys have to say on this topic (so far. still reading) I can't help but be reminded of something. I see lots of people and hear them complain about their significant other.

He can't stand when she opens her mouth to talk. She thinks that he just ignores her when the TV is on. He can't stand it when she drags him shopping. She hates that he has no interest in her favorite hobbies. Etc, etc.

Why are these people together? Why? Are their relationships so shallow that the part where two people connect as human beings, and not just physically, not part of the equation?

I can't help but look at these people who seem to be connected only by their nether regions and feel sorry for them. I've had a pair of married guys laugh in my face at the idea that a third guy should discuss a financial decision with his wife, as her initial idea really wasn't very good. After they calmed down from the laughing one said, "you just don't understand the way it works." The way what works? Is the notion that you should be able to talk to your spouse about a serious topic so foreign to people?

I would never want to be in a relationship with, or married to, someone who I thought was vapid and annoying. I couldn't see myself being with someone who I didn't want to spend lots and lots of time with for every reason. Good conversation, overlapping hobbies, sense of humor, etc. I couldn't see myself seriously being with someone who I didn't see as my best friend.

/That's probably why I'm single.
//That and being ugly less than attractive.



All of that is true, for the most part, but here's the thing you are leaving out of your equation - time.

When you first start out and maybe for the first ten years, there's lots to talk about, serious and not, and lots to find out about each other and work through. Most people decide if they are going to be able to be friends out of bed within this period of time. Now, assume you've gone through this and now it's 37 years since that first kiss. You've already told each other about yourselves, you have a lot of shared history that the other one already knows about, you've weathered serious issues together and you are still together.

You know each other's feelings, you can finish each other's sentences, you only have to say one word and the other one knows what you're referring to, you have short-cuts to jokes, etc. They are more like you and you are more like them than any other person on the planet. Think about when you are alone, do you spend a lot of time talking to yourself? Not usually, right? Same if you've been with another person a long time. There's no need or point to spend lots and lots of time together and talk. It's not that you don't have anything in common, you have everything in common so there's no need to share feelings you already know the other person shares.

Some "conversations" with my husband go like this, say we're in the same room and have just heard something bad on the news:

Me: That sucks.
Him: Yeah. Remember...?
Me: I was just thinking that.
Him: Shame.

So two people, ten words, the subject is covered and over with.
 
2013-02-20 06:53:59 PM

bingo the psych-o: Raise your hand if you are a guy and you have had a conversation with one of your buddies that was entierly made up of single word responses.


Like this?
 
2013-02-20 06:54:07 PM

fredklein: Ed Grubermann: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

She doesn't want the problem solved.

Then why is she talking about it?



I'm afraid that that is a mystery you will never, ever understand.  So, logically, you should stop asking.
 
2013-02-20 06:57:00 PM

weiserfireman: My current wife has a bad habit of starting to talk to me from another room while I am doing something.   If I stop, give her attention, and ask her to start over, so I can catch up, I get something snarky like "The price of tea in China has doubled in the past year".

My Ex-wife is driving me crazy right now.   Our son won't talk to her anymore.   He wants nothing to do with her, no texts, no phone calls, no hugs, nothing.   I tried counseling, but it did no good, because all he would tell the counselor is "I don't like her anymore", and then go silent.   He won't talk to me about it.    I have full custody, but now she the ex- has a tax return and she is mad he won't deal with her.   Now she is all angry and screaming at me because the son won't give her a hug.    She is going to try and get Court Ordered Counseling to fix it.  I am a horrible father because I can't see how much pain he is in and I haven't done enough to fix it.    "He doesn't like you" and "He only appears to be in pain when he is dealing with you" just get cuss words.    She got a new fiance' at Christmas.    Now I am not a real man, like he is.   She always mistakes my politeness towards her as friendship.    I let her know this weekend that my veneer of civility is just that.   She stepped over the line, and now she is clear that the line exists.     I will probably end up in court within the month.


Hey man, I can't be sure if anyone's serious on teh interwebs, and i usually don't offer sincere advice but... you seem frustrated.

I've seen this type of behaviour in a number of scenarios and the common factor in all of them is that the mother has acquired a new male companion.  Whether the kid is mad at her for trying to replace the father, or doesn't like the guy, or whatever, it pretty much always comes down to that.  More apparent in younger children that have difficulty articulating their true feelings.  I've seen it in cases where the two exes were at each others throats, and where two exes had an amicable post-breakup friendship.

Of course I dont know your relationship with the kid, but if it was  my kid I would bluntly ask him an open ended question like 'do you like <name>' or 'how do you feel about <name>'.  Totally omitting any mention of the mother and just focusing on that person.  Just a conversation starter and try to help him understand that the person is just replacing your role in his mom's life, not his life.  I dunno...   Probably obvious, but just wanted to chime in cause i hate to see kids have a hard time with parent break ups, it gets me right there.

/no, not there, you perv
//signed, Dr. Cyrael R. Sonis, Anecdotal Psychologis
 
2013-02-20 06:58:02 PM

treesloth: Me:  This morning.


This always happens:

Us: Let's agree to start packing a week before we move
*One month before we move*
Her: I don't want to have to pack this entire house myself!
Me: If you worry about it lots, you'll burn yourself out. We agreed to do it in three weeks as neither of us wants to live with boxes of stuff.
*Two weeks before we move, I come home to a completely packed house and a really pissed off girlfriend*
Her: You weren't doing anything and we move in TWO WEEKS
Me: But we agreed to do this one week before we move, you electedto jump the gun, if you are annoyed right now, this is because you made an executive decision that overruled our plan. Do not be made at me, for I do not deserve it.
Her: WHATEVER!!


She also knows I refuse to lie to her, this means she'll ask me questions she doesn't like the answer to:

Her: So I was thinking....
Me: *quiet full body shudder, anxiety from impending conversation that won't be needed*   *gulp*  Yeah?
Her: Well, I would like my own office, I know you have your own office and that's great, but you need that space for you. I need space for me. I think we should move.
Me: Let's switch. You can have the office, you would use it more than I.
Her: That won't do, you need that space."
Me: I'm telling you, if you need more space, I do not, you should take the office.
Her: No, no, you need it more.
Me: If avoiding a conversation about moving can be headed off simply by letting you use the office, it's win/win. You get the space you need, we save money from moving. We've only been in this (awesome and affordable) place for a year now.
Her: No, that won't work.
Me: Why not?
Her: I... I don't know. It just won't.

She goes off grumpy, I feel like punching myself because now we're both annoyed, and the conversation could have been avoided.

So many more, I see my brothers in this thread have much of the same strife. And drama. I don't need more drama in my life, if I did, I'd take a hostage at a bank.
 
2013-02-20 06:58:45 PM

badgerb: OgreMagi: badgerb: Acharne: I love this thread. I am sorely tempted to show it to my girlfriend but I don't think she'll understand why. For me, it'd be about empathy, for her, it'd be able re-inforcing stereotypes and disrespecting her.

Dude go alpha.
OgreMagi: Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS

Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.

You lucky barstad!!!
Wish I had thought of that.

Going to In-N-Out or getting divorced?

Depends on how much alimony he had to pay.
Having said that it sounds like getting away from this biatch was worth it at any price.
I do like an In-N-Out burger every once in awhile though.


Zero alimony, but a shiat-ton of debt.
 
2013-02-20 07:00:54 PM
I glanced over the responses and I didn't see: Henry Phillips- She's Talking Again
 
2013-02-20 07:02:22 PM

WhippingBoy: Bronzemom: Bull manure.  Look how many words you knuckleheads use to claim women talk too much.
enough said

Uh-oh... someone's feeling a wee bit defensive, aren't they?


It's hilarious because it's true.  You guys are going on about women.....like a bunch of women.
 
2013-02-20 07:02:46 PM

silly season: I glanced over the responses and I didn't see: Henry Phillips- She's Talking Again


That's the first thing that came to my mind!
 
2013-02-20 07:03:55 PM

Buffet: silly season: I glanced over the responses and I didn't see: Henry Phillips- She's Talking Again

That's the first thing that came to my mind!


You missed it, the full lyrics were posted.
 
2013-02-20 07:05:41 PM

Diogenes: Evolutionary specialization artifacts.

Primitive men used to leave the family and their settlements to go on hunts.   Sometimes they'd be long, and they had to develop the ability to orient themselves and identify signs and landmarks to find their way around and get back home.  Not much verbalization required, but men developed better spatial skills and sense of direction.

Primitive women bore and raised children.  They developer keener interpersonal intuition.  They had to understand the non verbal clues coming from infants.  They also spent more time in the settlements dealing with others, sometimes having to communicate in pre-lingual ways.  They developed more complex language skills.


I don't get why you tossed in "non-verbal language" when this is specifically about verbal language.

In fact, there are people that have disorders that make them good at verbal communication but neurologically deficient with non-verbal and vice versa.

Jumping to conclusions the way you do, you'd be a great at being one of those terrible science journalists!

Theaetetus may be able to get you straitened out.

Theaetetus: Or, specifically in this article:
1. The average woman talks more than the average man.
2. Male rat pups cry more than female rat pups, and they have twice as much of the protein FOXP2.
3. In a study of 10 human children, the females had more of the FOXP2 protein than the males.

... which is translated as "we discovered the protein that causes adult women to talk more!"

 
2013-02-20 07:06:55 PM
their "point" is that they want sex

now if u can't figure that out by the way your talking, your a jackass
 
2013-02-20 07:07:10 PM

PsiChick: ...Sorry? Are you saying people inherit language despite being adopted?


You said word count, and (that can mean a few things) anything involving word count is very heritable.
 
2013-02-20 07:07:47 PM

Caffandtranqs: WhippingBoy: Bronzemom: Bull manure.  Look how many words you knuckleheads use to claim women talk too much.
enough said

Uh-oh... someone's feeling a wee bit defensive, aren't they?

It's hilarious because it's true.  You guys are going on about women.....like a bunch of women.


The only people in this thread posting long, non-sensical, drivel are the pseudo-feminists and their white knights.
 
2013-02-20 07:08:33 PM

Despair of the Cheese: Yep. This is how so many conversations with guys I have go. Move the HELL on. I don't know the guy/place/car/boobs. Just get to the damned story.


Maybe because he's trying to illustrate a point that has to do with that guy specifically and you're missing the whole point because you're use to the regular ol' women chittering/squawking?
 
2013-02-20 07:12:04 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them


THIS. A thousand times, THIS.
 
2013-02-20 07:13:35 PM

silvervial: Buffet: silly season: I glanced over the responses and I didn't see: Henry Phillips- She's Talking Again

That's the first thing that came to my mind!

You missed it, the full lyrics were posted.


I have the album.
 
2013-02-20 07:14:55 PM

silvervial: Buffet: silly season: I glanced over the responses and I didn't see: Henry Phillips- She's Talking Again

That's the first thing that came to my mind!

You missed it, the full lyrics were posted.


Doesn't count. You can't get the effect of a song from just the lyrics.

/Does one describe the Mona Lisa to convey the effect?!
// I don't think so
///Philistine!
 
2013-02-20 07:15:19 PM

ciberido: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

If the problem is, for example, "I'm unhappy (because my boss is a biatch)" then yes, crying on a shoulder solves that part of problem which can be most immediately solved ("I'm unhappy").


Telling someone you're unhappy makes you... not unhappy? Does telling someone you ARE happy make you sad??

Or to try to put it in terms that you might relate to better, if I tell you my car is low on oil, yes, maybe it would be worthwhile to discuss what might have caused this, and yes, we could discuss the idea of you taking a look at the engine or taking the car to a garage for repairs, but what I need RIGHT NOW is somebody to put oil in the damn car.

But she doesn't WANT him to solve the problem and put oil in the car, she wants him to listen to her biatching about how the car needs oil. because that will make the car.. fell it doesn't need oil??
 
2013-02-20 07:15:40 PM

WhippingBoy: ChrisDe: At times I'm tempted to put a security camera in the kitchen so I could play back what she actually said, and not what she thought she said. But somehow that would backfire on me.

I've fantasized about doing this as well. But yeah, it would almost certainly backfire.


Why don't you just do it, you pussywhipped whiners.
 
2013-02-20 07:17:20 PM
 
2013-02-20 07:17:26 PM

Pilikia: I typically walk around with an image of myself as a bad-ass apex predator, but whenever my wife begins a sentence with the word, "So..." (ellipses intentional) I freeze like a baby bunny in the underbrush. Sometimes, if I stay still and silent long enough, I blend back into her perceptual background and escape the hour-long, one-sided conversation about nothing she was about to initiate.


OK, now this shiat is funny. It's like you're Dr. Grant and she's the T-Rex.
 
2013-02-20 07:17:55 PM
Women use more words to say things than men, as a rule. But a woman isn't much more verbose.


Teenage girls are the ones who speak much and say nothing. It's crazy.
 
2013-02-20 07:18:18 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: ...Sorry? Are you saying people inherit language despite being adopted?

You said word count, and (that can mean a few things) anything involving word count is very heritable.


Not in the sense we usually use that phrase, no. It's not genetically based; you 'inherit' it through mimickry. Nature, not nurture.
 
2013-02-20 07:18:57 PM

fredklein: But she doesn't WANT him to solve the problem and put oil in the car, she wants him to listen to her biatching about how the car needs oil. because that will make the car.. fell it doesn't need oil??


There's a reason why women have never (and will never) walk on the moon. This is it.
 
2013-02-20 07:18:58 PM

OgreMagi: badgerb: OgreMagi: badgerb: Acharne: I love this thread. I am sorely tempted to show it to my girlfriend but I don't think she'll understand why. For me, it'd be about empathy, for her, it'd be able re-inforcing stereotypes and disrespecting her.

Dude go alpha.
OgreMagi: Pilikia: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

SO MUCH THIS

Once my wife did this.  I walked out, got in the car, went to In-n-Out, had a nice burger, fries, and coke, then drove home.  She asked me where the hell I went.  I told her I had dinner.  So I didn't get any sex that night.  Nor any for the next week.

I am no longer married.

You lucky barstad!!!
Wish I had thought of that.

Going to In-N-Out or getting divorced?

Depends on how much alimony he had to pay.
Having said that it sounds like getting away from this biatch was worth it at any price.
I do like an In-N-Out burger every once in awhile though.

Zero alimony, but a shiat-ton of debt.


Worth it??
 
2013-02-20 07:19:22 PM

fusillade762: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

There ya go, thinking like a MAN again.


Shes talking.

Talking is a form of communication.

com·mu·ni·ca·tion
Noun
The imparting or exchanging of information or news

So, she's trying to give me information.

Why?

So I can act on it.

The information involves a problem.

She must want a solution to the problem.

Simple logic.
 
2013-02-20 07:20:39 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: My wife thinks this is a reasonable way to impart information:

"So at work today (co-worker's name) comes up to me and starts telling me about the girl that sits next to her. Turns out she went to lunch with her friend and her friend and then they were talking about her and how she doesn't do any work, but after all of that she was talking to her boss and they all agreed that she needs to tell her that she isn't going to help her get her work done when she isn't doing anything to help her department when she has lots of time on her plate and could be asking her boss if she can do any project to help her department."


coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com

Who introduced your wife to my girlfriend?

/ Have told her many times: If the story is about someone you know, that's fine. I'll be a good sport. If the story is about someone someone you know knows, stop.
 
2013-02-20 07:22:00 PM

fredklein: Telling someone you're unhappy makes you... not unhappy? Does telling someone you ARE happy make you sad??


Yes, Mr. Spock, I understand that human emotions confuse you.  If only you were Data and not Spock, maybe I could just install a chip or something.
 
2013-02-20 07:24:56 PM

ciberido: fredklein: Telling someone you're unhappy makes you... not unhappy? Does telling someone you ARE happy make you sad??

Yes, Mr. Spock, I understand that human emotions confuse you.  If only you were Data and not Spock, maybe I could just install a chip or something.


Oh, I have emotions. But when I'm sad, I don't talk about it. Because talking about it doesn't help- it just dredges up more stuff to be unhappy about. If I'm sad, I figure out WHY, and fix the problem.
 
2013-02-20 07:25:43 PM

fredklein: fusillade762: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

There ya go, thinking like a MAN again.

Shes talking.

Talking is a form of communication.

com·mu·ni·ca·tion
Noun
The imparting or exchanging of information or news

So, she's trying to give me information.

Why?

So I can act on it.

The information involves a problem.

She must want a solution to the problem.

Simple logic.


Here you go: Phil's Day at the Spa
 
2013-02-20 07:26:07 PM
fredklein

Shes talking.

Talking is a form of communication.

com·mu·ni·ca·tion
Noun
The imparting or exchanging of information or news

So, she's trying to give me information obtain comfort and reassurance, and telling her story is her way of soliticing comfort and reassurance from you.

Why?

So I can act on it.

The information involves a problem.

She must want a solution to the problem.

Simple logic.


Fixed that for ya, kidro.
 
2013-02-20 07:26:19 PM
Haven't laughed at a thread like this in a long time.
 
2013-02-20 07:28:57 PM
IRQ12
Haven't laughed at a thread like this in a long time.

People were staring at me on the train home because my shoulders were shaking I was laughing so, as quietly as I could, anyway...

Also, the headline made me laugh for a good 5 minutes.

(and I'm a woman)

Well done, subby.
 
2013-02-20 07:31:46 PM

ciberido: sethen320: My wife is horrible at communicating.  Incomplete thoughts, wrong words used, etc...

We just had a conversation about it the other day.  She has a bad habit of doing stuff like not actually pointing at things when asking for help retrieving something or whatnot.  She will "point" by looking at the object and then say "can you hand me that".  This typically leads to me or some other poor soul desperately trying to guess what "that" may be while being polite about it.  Meanwhile she gets more and more frustrated.

Nepalis often point with their lips.  It seems weird at first, but it homes in handy sometimes, mainly when both hands are already occupied.

Apparently some other cultures also point with their lips, as well.


Would not hit it -- pointy lips.
studman69
 
2013-02-20 07:32:32 PM

fredklein: fusillade762: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

There ya go, thinking like a MAN again.

Shes talking.

Talking is a form of communication.

com·mu·ni·ca·tion
Noun
The imparting or exchanging of information or news

So, she's trying to give me information.

Why?

So I can act on it.

The information involves a problem.

She must want a solution to the problem.

Simple logic.


Well, there's your problem....
 
2013-02-20 07:33:19 PM

andyfromfl: gmpathfinder: KiltedBastich: PsiChick: ...Anthropology actually discusses the difference between a social trait and a biological trait as part of its field. Like, again, this is what they teach in 101. As do most other social sciences. Part of the waist-hip thing is that any biological inclination would be very slight, like TFA--so slight as to be, for all intents and purposes, nonexistant. Humans do not have many true instincts, and there are some behaviors that pattern across all cultures. Schizophrenia, for example, manifests the same way in every culture. That's a biological trait.

This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture, it would be unnoticeable, which means there's very little value in the real world in looking at it as an indicator, although certainly it's of value to further research. But at some point, .00000000000000001 is just 0.

Yeah, they discuss it, and they often get it wrong, because they are generally lay people with respect to the expression of biological traits in behaviour who have distinct biases against the very concept. I've got degrees in sociology and psychology. I've taken those 101 classes you speak of and they get a lot wrong when they talk about the natural science when you compare it with what the natural sciences are actually saying (and vice versa, of course; both sides of this issue exasperate me).

To continue the example, the waist-hip thing is found everywhere, in wildly varying cultures all over the world. It's common as dirt and it works cross culturally, in that people from one culture who share the trait will be able to accurately judge the relative attractiveness of women from very different cultures who share that particular trait. There are some culttures that display very different tendencies, but all of those are very specific to the particular cultures, and do not generalize well. The culture can overwrite the basic tendency. ...


www.jaydinitto.com
If you tell me the sky is green in your world, it's up to you to provide evidence.
You say women talk more than men- you have anecdotes, but you don't have any data.
You disagree with research that doesn't confirm your biases? You must be really good at science.
 
2013-02-20 07:34:37 PM
What I've learned from Fark today is that a lot of couples need to learn how to communicate with one another. Use a talking stick, but reverse it. The person who isn't talking holds it and when the other person starts into problematic communication, they get beaten with the talking stick. It's gender neutral. In fact both people could have their own talking sticks, which must be surrendered before starting to speak. This surrender of the talking stick is consent to whatever corrective actions must be taken by the other party.

If she's rambling or he's being insensitive, it gives immediate tangible feedback, Also, the potential for swordfights which is an awesome addition to any couple's dynamic IMHO.

Or one could go the SImpsons route and use shock collars but I don't suggest playing with electricity above the waist.
 
2013-02-20 07:35:50 PM

fredklein: ciberido: fredklein: Telling someone you're unhappy makes you... not unhappy? Does telling someone you ARE happy make you sad??

Yes, Mr. Spock, I understand that human emotions confuse you.  If only you were Data and not Spock, maybe I could just install a chip or something.

Oh, I have emotions. But when I'm sad, I don't talk about it. Because talking about it doesn't help- it just dredges up more stuff to be unhappy about. If I'm sad, I figure out WHY, and fix the problem.


Somebody has to be at the end of the line - with nobody to turn to, to actually take action.  We end up holding that bag.
 
2013-02-20 07:36:06 PM

SuperTramp: fredklein

So, she's trying to give me information obtain comfort and reassurance, and telling her story is her way of soliticing comfort and reassurance from you.

Fixed that for ya, kidro.


If she wants "comfort and reassurance", maybe she should ask for ... wait for it... comfort and reassurance??

The whole point is that men are direct, and women... aren't.
 
2013-02-20 07:39:58 PM

tonguedepressor: The post argument argument where I'm basically told that by definition my disagreeing with her point of view is the equivalent of my screaming at her.

In fact she'll even recreate my screaming at her in a threatening manner and using words and statements that I never even came close to using.

It can quite disconcerting that she is convinced that this was how it actually happened.


You need to get out of that relationship ... NOW
 
2013-02-20 07:40:06 PM
fredklein

If she wants "comfort and reassurance", maybe she should ask for ... wait for it... comfort and reassurance??

She: Honey, I really need some comfort and reassurance!
He: About what?

and there you go.
 
2013-02-20 07:41:45 PM

TheOther: ciberido: sethen320: My wife is horrible at communicating.  Incomplete thoughts, wrong words used, etc...

We just had a conversation about it the other day.  She has a bad habit of doing stuff like not actually pointing at things when asking for help retrieving something or whatnot.  She will "point" by looking at the object and then say "can you hand me that".  This typically leads to me or some other poor soul desperately trying to guess what "that" may be while being polite about it.  Meanwhile she gets more and more frustrated.

Nepalis often point with their lips.  It seems weird at first, but it homes in handy sometimes, mainly when both hands are already occupied.

Apparently some other cultures also point with their lips, as well.

Would not hit it -- pointy lips.
studman69


Like a beak?

No wonder the Gurkah are so tough.
 
2013-02-20 07:44:35 PM

silvervial: Me: That sucks.
Him: Yeah. Remember...?
Me: I was just thinking that.
Him: Shame.


Mrs. Grubermann and I have a huge library of in-jokes, cultural references and oher conversational shortcuts that dip down into a single word said in a particular way. Sometimes it's even just a look, and an entire conversation can happen in seconds.
 
2013-02-20 07:45:30 PM

silvervial: So two people, ten words, the subject is covered and over with.


No, I understand that. However, it's not what I meant. Running out of new things to talk about is a different issue than hating what comes out of their mouth and actively disliking each other's company. A couple being quiet with each other can be a sweet sign of closeness and being comfortable with one another. Complaining that s/he annoys him/her as a person while supposedly being a "couple" is something else.
 
2013-02-20 07:45:59 PM

ciberido: browntimmy: lordluzr: Two hundred comments in two hours.... Fark is a woman.

Notice how internet comments are usually relatively succinct and get the point across without superfluous information? Internet savvy people know that long text blocks will largely get ignored. This same rule applies to most men and real life conversations.

Yes, indeed, Fark comments are the very model of intelligence and succinctness.


Since I guess public school failed you, by succinct means "brief" or "expressed in few words", as in it doesn't take you 10 minutes to read each post. Where did you get intelligent from? Putting words in my mouth for the sake of arguing? Gee, that almost fits a certain stereotype being discussed in this thread.
 
2013-02-20 07:46:32 PM

Theaetetus: [www.phdcomics.com image 600x667]

Or, specifically in this article:
1. The average woman talks more than the average man.
2. Male rat pups cry more than female rat pups, and they have twice as much of the protein FOXP2.
3. In a study of 10 human children, the females had more of the FOXP2 protein than the males.

... which is translated as "we discovered the protein that causes adult women to talk more!"


By the way, back to a serious post for whoever is interested to read my sci-babble.

*begin full-force SERIOUS MODE*
I want to reiterate the importance of not assuming cause and effect. Obvious evidence strongly indicates that there is likely no cause and effect relationship between quantity of speech and FOXP2:

The FOXP2 gene is located on chromosome 7, which is NOT a sex chromosome. From a Mendelian-only perspective (assuming completely random hookups), men and women should have similar rates of FOXP2 dominance. Now, higher dominance of FOXP2 in one gender over the other throughout the population could still be possible, but not due to any direct effect from being a specific gender. Rather, as all the woes in this thread show, FOXP2 might have an effect on who bangs who because it could affect attractiveness by affecting, say, social interactions.

By the shiatty article that mentioned the study, it seems that females of the observed animals used more vocalizations and had a correlation with higher FOXP2 expression, as well as the correlation that human girls have more FOXP2.

Given the female correlation with FOXP2 and the fact that FOXP2 has equal chance to pass to the child during recombination (ignoring factors like FOXP2's affect on attractiveness of the phenotype), I would be willing to bet that many other genes are located on the X chromosome that also affect speech. This might be related to such known facts as higher rates of some language disorders in boys, like dyslexia (boys don't get that backup X chromosome).

So if you held a gun to my head and made me jump to a conclusion, I would say that FOXP2 probably indirectly affects the expression of other genes which more directly affect speech and/or vocalizations. I'd also jump to a conclusion that FOXP2 is an evolutionary mammal relic which interacts with female genes (or maybe something on the male Y chromosome suppresses FOXP2) so that the females would use more vocalizations to comfort, communicate, etc, baby offspring.
*end full-force SERIOUS MODE*  

Journalists do it, so I'll do it.
My conclusion hilariously would mean that women are all instinctively talking to their husbands as if the husband were literally a baby.

So, ladies, lay off your dude and treat him like an adult, k? None of that slow soul-destroying nagging.
 
2013-02-20 07:47:31 PM
I'm bookmarking this to read later, when I'm less frustrated by the ineptitude of the speaking woman.

/not all of them, just enough of them to piss me off
 
2013-02-20 07:47:34 PM

PsiChick: Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: ...Sorry? Are you saying people inherit language despite being adopted?

You said word count, and (that can mean a few things) anything involving word count is very heritable.

Not in the sense we usually use that phrase, no. It's not genetically based; you 'inherit' it through mimickry. Nature, not nurture.


No.
 
2013-02-20 07:49:07 PM
blog.harisaltaf.com
 
2013-02-20 07:51:11 PM

doglover: [blog.harisaltaf.com image 499x699]


Well, forwarding that one to the g/f and asking her to look at it before she ever wakes me up in the middle of night again just to ask me if I still love her the same way I did when we first met.
 
2013-02-20 07:54:53 PM

BolloxReader: Or one could go the SImpsons route and use shock collars but I don't suggest playing with electricity above the waist.


But that only leaves...
i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-02-20 07:55:24 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's amusing that so many of you are married to dipshiats who won't shut up. I'd be sympathetic, but so many of you are also assholes, so I figure you deserve it.


first laugh of the day.

"I know my spouse is going to be a pain in the ass, so I'm going to be an obtuse rude retard."

They're made for each other.
 
2013-02-20 07:55:26 PM

SuperTramp: fredklein

If she wants "comfort and reassurance", maybe she should ask for ... wait for it... comfort and reassurance??

She: Honey, I really need some comfort and reassurance!
He: About what?

and there you go.


...And then she tells me what she needs comfort and reassurance about.
 
2013-02-20 07:57:57 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: ...Sorry? Are you saying people inherit language despite being adopted?

You said word count, and (that can mean a few things) anything involving word count is very heritable.

Not in the sense we usually use that phrase, no. It's not genetically based; you 'inherit' it through mimickry. Nature, not nurture.

No.


Citation?
 
2013-02-20 08:05:29 PM

PsiChick: Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: ...Sorry? Are you saying people inherit language despite being adopted?

You said word count, and (that can mean a few things) anything involving word count is very heritable.

Not in the sense we usually use that phrase, no. It's not genetically based; you 'inherit' it through mimickry. Nature, not nurture.

No.

Citation?


didn't Whorf and Penney prety much already farm this back 40?
 
2013-02-20 08:10:04 PM

Ed Grubermann: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

She doesn't want the problem solved.


Of course not. She is the problem.
 
2013-02-20 08:11:46 PM

Ed Grubermann: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

She doesn't want the problem solved.


This should be the first thing any male human being is ever taught. When a woman tells you she has a problem, you need to very carefully consider whether or not she wants you to fix it before you open your trap. Most of the time, offering a rational solution will get you nothing but pain. Even if she says "the toilet is backed up, would you fix it?" you should spend a few seconds considering your response, just in case.
 
2013-02-20 08:13:26 PM
fredklein: If she wants "comfort and reassurance", maybe she should ask for ... wait for it... comfort and reassurance??

SuperTramp:

She: Honey, I really need some comfort and reassurance!
He: About what?

and there you go.


fredklein ...And then she tells me what she needs comfort and reassurance about.

Ah, so you need a lead-in.
You know, this could work......but you''ll still get the 40-minute story with all the tangents....
 
2013-02-20 08:15:48 PM
 
2013-02-20 08:19:33 PM

browntimmy: ciberido: browntimmy: lordluzr: Two hundred comments in two hours.... Fark is a woman.

Notice how internet comments are usually relatively succinct and get the point across without superfluous information? Internet savvy people know that long text blocks will largely get ignored. This same rule applies to most men and real life conversations.

Yes, indeed, Fark comments are the very model of intelligence and succinctness.

Since I guess public school failed you, by succinct means "brief" or "expressed in few words", as in it doesn't take you 10 minutes to read each post. Where did you get intelligent from? Putting words in my mouth for the sake of arguing? Gee, that almost fits a certain stereotype being discussed in this thread.


You're really touchy today.  Is it that time of the month again, honey?
 
2013-02-20 08:24:57 PM

doglover: [blog.harisaltaf.com image 499x699]


Though I admit that on a bad day I CAN have those thoughts, I also realize that they are ludicrous, stop thinking them, and don't let crazy "feelings" ruin my life. If you are a chick and you find yourself going down some weird crazy thought pathway like that then I suggest you do the following:

1. STOP
2. Think if there is a reason that you are feeling that way. Maybe you are lonely. Maybe you are bored. Maybe you want to talk more or do something fun with your SO but you don't know how and are expecting him to read your thoughts and start the conversation for you.
3. Fix the problem. If you want to *talk* realize that dudes don't like talking about what we like talking about all the time. So talk about something you both care about, I know that my dude will ALWAYS talk about baseball, so I start a conversation about baseball.
4. Sometimes a woman sees sitting and watching tv time together as TALKING TIME and a man sees it as WATCHING TV TIME. As a female, I usually say "hey want to go on a walk after X show is over?" because I have found that we actually pay attention to each other on a walk and he gets quiet tv time and I get talking time.

Men: Some women might not realize how you feel about chit chat. I'm not saying you need to indulge her constant need for talking or attention, but do give her SOME one on one talking time. Deal? Alternately, when your mom calls and wants to chit chat about pointless things, hand the phone to your wife! (my hub's newest trick)
 
2013-02-20 08:26:06 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: Seeing what you guys have to say on this topic (so far. still reading) I can't help but be reminded of something. I see lots of people and hear them complain about their significant other.

He can't stand when she opens her mouth to talk. She thinks that he just ignores her when the TV is on. He can't stand it when she drags him shopping. She hates that he has no interest in her favorite hobbies. Etc, etc.

Why are these people together? Why? Are their relationships so shallow that the part where two people connect as human beings, and not just physically, not part of the equation?

I can't help but look at these people who seem to be connected only by their nether regions and feel sorry for them. I've had a pair of married guys laugh in my face at the idea that a third guy should discuss a financial decision with his wife, as her initial idea really wasn't very good. After they calmed down from the laughing one said, "you just don't understand the way it works." The way what works? Is the notion that you should be able to talk to your spouse about a serious topic so foreign to people?

I would never want to be in a relationship with, or married to, someone who I thought was vapid and annoying. I couldn't see myself being with someone who I didn't want to spend lots and lots of time with for every reason. Good conversation, overlapping hobbies, sense of humor, etc. I couldn't see myself seriously being with someone who I didn't see as my best friend.

/That's probably why I'm single.
//That and being ugly less than attractive.


I don't think that my wife is vapid or stupid or incompetent. It's not even that I dislike talking to her. It's that her indecisiveness drives me nuts (especially since if I'm indecisive she gets frustrated with me) and the fact that we communicate very differently means that I don't catch the things that she wants, and then it's my fault for not understanding. And not just my fault, but a sign that I don't respect her or care what she has to say. That's the hard part. Would be a lot easier if I didn't love her, because then it would be true that I don't care. But I do care, we just have some issues in how we talk and how she interprets things.
 
2013-02-20 08:30:36 PM

SuperTramp: fredklein: If she wants "comfort and reassurance", maybe she should ask for ... wait for it... comfort and reassurance??

SuperTramp:

She: Honey, I really need some comfort and reassurance!
He: About what?

and there you go.

fredklein ...And then she tells me what she needs comfort and reassurance about.

Ah, so you need a lead-in.
You know, this could work......but you''ll still get the 40-minute story with all the tangents....


She doesn't need to give me the whole story, Just the part she needs reassurance about.

"So, I was at work, and Joe, you remember Joe, he's the one who keeps screwing up, and...blah...blah...blah... so I told her that I was busy, but I wasn't, but she's a biatch anyway...blah...blah...blah... played right into his hands, and I was so embarrassed...blah...blah...blah...several times, but I thought she was joking...blah...blah...blah...So I don't know what to do...blah...blah...blah..."

becomes:

"I need reassurance. I called my coworker a biatch because she was acting like one. Was that okay?"
"Hunny, it's okay. "

There. Done. Over. Fin.
 
2013-02-20 08:31:28 PM

PsiChick: Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: ...Sorry? Are you saying people inherit language despite being adopted?

You said word count, and (that can mean a few things) anything involving word count is very heritable.

Not in the sense we usually use that phrase, no. It's not genetically based; you 'inherit' it through mimickry. Nature, not nurture.

No.

Citation?


It's very complicated and I think PsiChick posts show that she's more right than she's being given credit for. I think actually, she is being misunderstood because she has a good grasp on complex subjects. Don't automatically dismiss someone before even really understanding what they're saying.

Just to see how mindbogglingly complicated these types of genetic-environment combo phenomenon could be, see my post above....

(for any of you lazies):

torusXL: I want to reiterate the importance of not assuming cause and effect. Obvious evidence strongly indicates that there is likely no cause and effect relationship between quantity of speech and FOXP2:

The FOXP2 gene is located on chromosome 7, which is NOT a sex chromosome. From a Mendelian-only perspective (assuming completely random hookups), men and women should have similar rates of FOXP2 dominance. Now, higher dominance of FOXP2 in one gender over the other throughout the population could still be possible, but not due to any direct effect from being a specific gender. Rather, as all the woes in this thread show, FOXP2 might have an effect on who bangs who because it could affect attractiveness by affecting, say, social interactions.

By the shiatty article that mentioned the study, it seems that females of the observed animals used more vocalizations and had a correlation with higher FOXP2 expression, as well as the correlation that human girls have more FOXP2.

Given the female correlation with FOXP2 and the fact that FOXP2 has equal chance to pass to the child during recombination (ignoring factors like FOXP2's affect on attractiveness of the phenotype), I would be willing to bet that many other genes are located on the X chromosome that also affect speech. This might be related to such known facts as higher rates of some language disorders in boys, like dyslexia (boys don't get that backup X chromosome).

So if you held a gun to my head and made me jump to a conclusion, I would say that FOXP2 probably indirectly affects the expression of other genes which more directly affect speech and/or vocalizations. I'd also jump to a conclusion that FOXP2 is an evolutionary mammal relic which interacts with female genes (or maybe something on the male Y chromosome suppresses FOXP2) so that the females would use more vocalizations to comfort, communicate, etc, baby offspring.

 
2013-02-20 08:35:26 PM

Oerath: I don't think that my wife is vapid or stupid or incompetent. It's not even that I dislike talking to her. It's that her indecisiveness drives me nuts (especially since if I'm indecisive she gets frustrated with me) and the fact that we communicate very differently means that I don't catch the things that she wants, and then it's my fault for not understanding. And not just my fault, but a sign that I don't respect her or care what she has to say. That's the hard part. Would be a lot easier if I didn't love her, because then it would be true that I don't care. But I do care, we just have some issues in how we talk and how she interprets things.


I get that. I've been there. That's not really what I was talking about, though.
 
2013-02-20 08:46:32 PM
If shiat rolls downhill, why aren't women taller than men?
 
2013-02-20 08:48:57 PM

sethen320: My wife is horrible at communicating.  Incomplete thoughts, wrong words used, etc...

We just had a conversation about it the other day.  She has a bad habit of doing stuff like not actually pointing at things when asking for help retrieving something or whatnot.  She will "point" by looking at the object and then say "can you hand me that".  This typically leads to me or some other poor soul desperately trying to guess what "that" may be while being polite about it.  Meanwhile she gets more and more frustrated.  But dare ask "what does that mean" and she will have some roundabout reason as to why you should have known what she was wanting because she mentioned it in a conversation which happened anywhere from 15 minutes to two days ago.  And she will drone on about it for at least 5 minutes.

I used to think that it was reserved just for me but I've watched her go through this with others.  I tell her to take time, expend the syllables, and just explain what she wants.  The funny part is how frustrated she gets with everyone.  "Nobody ever listens to me!".  I told her we are listening, she just sucks at talking.


I had an outstanding example of this recently. GF is in a tizzy, moving here, cleaning this and generally butterflying around the apartment so I cannot 'do' anything except offer to help. I offer to help.

Me: Can I help?
Her: Uhhh.... uh..... put that in the closet. *Vague gesturing*
Me: Can you clarify please?
Her: *condescending voice* The extension cord, please put it in the closet.
Me: Ok, we have three closets, which one?
Her: The.....WHY would you put that in the closet in our room? That doesn't make any sense.
Me: Well I don't know why we would store an extension cord in any closet, I'm trying to help. Which closet please?
Her: Nevermind! I'll do it!


What follows is a two hour conversation on communication, presumption and body language. Her cleaning started because she saw me look at the living room and say 'We need to get this place ready for our houseguest', who was coming in a week. What I had actually been doing was responding to her friend who had asked me 'what are you doing with the toilet paper' I had in my hands. So while I was simply holding TP and replying to her friend, she took it as some sort of disastrous meta-comment on our apartment and by extension our relationship.  Christ.
 
2013-02-20 08:50:12 PM
Can't believe I've read through 300+ comments (totally enjoying it, BTW) and all I've got to offer is this, from High Fidelity:

"what really matters is what you like, not what you are like... Books, records, films - these things matter. Call me shallow but it's the farkin' truth "

Great thread.
 
2013-02-20 08:51:11 PM

my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them


Bisexuality does have its advantages.
 
2013-02-20 08:52:32 PM
I love these threads so much.  This is by no means a bookmark for later reading when I am less drunk.
 
2013-02-20 08:53:52 PM
How Mrs. PCoC tells a story: "So today at lunch, Susie and Jean and I went shopping over at that little place off Duke street behind that one restaurant and she found this hat that was light blue with a dark blue ribbon on it, sort of like mine, only with thicker ribbon, and it was marked down 20% and she had a gift certificate but when she went to check out, the girl said she couldn't use the certificate with the mark down and Susie said she was pretty sure she could, but the lady kept saying no, it was totally rude, can you believe that, I mean I can't believe any body could be so rude and neither could Susie, but finally she was able to get a hold of a manager, and she got the full discount and we just barely got back to the office in time after that. I mean can you believe how rude that lady was?"

How I tell the same story: "Susie bought a hat."

/It's OK; love that woman dearly.
 
2013-02-20 08:54:01 PM
dilbert.com
dilbert.com
 
2013-02-20 08:57:09 PM

crabsno termites: If shiat rolls downhill, why aren't women taller than men?


I dunno, I've had a good time with women taller than me. Then again some of them have been so much shorter you'd think I special ordered them as "Easy Blowjob Height" from the factory.
 
2013-02-20 08:57:24 PM

fredklein: ciberido: fredklein: Telling someone you're unhappy makes you... not unhappy? Does telling someone you ARE happy make you sad??

Yes, Mr. Spock, I understand that human emotions confuse you.  If only you were Data and not Spock, maybe I could just install a chip or something.

Oh, I have emotions. But when I'm sad, I don't talk about it. Because talking about it doesn't help- it just dredges up more stuff to be unhappy about. If I'm sad, I figure out WHY, and fix the problem.


Yup

Repeating your problem to various people without doing anything about it only creates long term issues in exchange for short term consolation.
 
2013-02-20 09:02:09 PM

ciberido: Yanks_RSJ: ciberido: Yes, but if you really want to assign blame, it's as much the man's fault for assuming without asking that the woman wanted a solution as it is her fault for not explicitly telling the man that she didn't want one.  Essentially, they're equally at fault, her for assuming he'd operate by "the women's rules" and him for assuming she'd operate by "the men's rules."

Well that's true, until you realize that talking about a problem without seeking a solution is a galactic waste of time and pointless beyond belief.  This is particularly true when the solution is as simple as "have you considered talking to ______ and saying everything you just told me?"

The fact that you are incapable of grasping the point to an action does not mean that action is pointless.


I am perfectly capable of grasping what you think is the point, but I'm fine being on the side of the discussion that seeks to do more than garner sympathy hugs.
 
2013-02-20 09:02:54 PM

FrancoFile: lordluzr: Two hundred comments in two hours.... Fark is a woman.

OMG. Thread over!


Now you know who's always lurking.
 
2013-02-20 09:03:50 PM

torusXL: The FOXP2 gene is located on chromosome 7, which is NOT a sex chromosome.


For another example, color blindness is (usually) on the X chromosome(s), which IS a sex chromosome.

/see how that doesn't make sense
//I think Y is more reliably filled with gender traits but I'm not even sure
 
2013-02-20 09:07:57 PM

WhippingBoy: There's three pieces of advice that I give to young guys in order to prepare them for marriage:
1. Learn to drink (not binge-drink, but sanity-drink)
2. Convert you next paycheque to $100 bills. Light a bonfire. Slowly throw each bill into the fire and watch it burn
3. On a nightly basis, watch to most boring TV channel your provider offers (local council meeting, etc). Attempt to maintain your interest and keep eye contact with the TV. Start with 10 minutes, and work your way up to an hour


Honestly I think there are some women who have a clue. And there are some that are definitely crazy and hateful. But in between there are normal women who men assume are crazy because they don't understand them, and then the men get frustrated with the woman's weird behavior and it gets worse and worse.

I know a guy who is in the relationship you describe. Now they have a baby and all she does is shame him like "Why are you on Facebook and not reading to our daughter", "I wish I could be a stay at home mom." (he has 2 jobs and he inherited the house they live in), "You better do something like *this* when you FINALLY propose to me!!" (and those are the things she says to him where everyone can read it, i can't imagine the crazy shiat she says when they are alone). I have known this girl for a long time and she has always had extremely low self esteem- she will do anything to bring someone else down. I think she needs counseling or something (seriously.) but it sucks to be him. That said, not all women are like that so if you notice the warning signs then you should seriously act.
 
2013-02-20 09:09:26 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: Seeing what you guys have to say on this topic (so far. still reading) I can't help but be reminded of something. I see lots of people and hear them complain about their significant other.

He can't stand when she opens her mouth to talk. She thinks that he just ignores her when the TV is on. He can't stand it when she drags him shopping. She hates that he has no interest in her favorite hobbies. Etc, etc.

Why are these people together? Why? Are their relationships so shallow that the part where two people connect as human beings, and not just physically, not part of the equation?

I can't help but look at these people who seem to be connected only by their nether regions and feel sorry for them. I've had a pair of married guys laugh in my face at the idea that a third guy should discuss a financial decision with his wife, as her initial idea really wasn't very good. After they calmed down from the laughing one said, "you just don't understand the way it works." The way what works? Is the notion that you should be able to talk to your spouse about a serious topic so foreign to people?

I would never want to be in a relationship with, or married to, someone who I thought was vapid and annoying. I couldn't see myself being with someone who I didn't want to spend lots and lots of time with for every reason. Good conversation, overlapping hobbies, sense of humor, etc. I couldn't see myself seriously being with someone who I didn't see as my best friend.

/That's probably why I'm single.
//That and being ugly less than attractive.


A lot of people have replied to you with good answers, but I'll give you one more to chew on.

By the time you've been married and/or living together for 5 years or so, you should have worked out the major issues: money religion kids politics. Note that you don't have to agree on anything but money - everything else is negotiable, as long as you treat your partner's views with respect.

So what does that leave you to fight about?

If the big stuff is worked out, it really only leaves the petty stuff. The small annoyances, the little things that bother you but you don't bother to fight about.

Those annoyances build up. Because it's not worth instigating a nuclear war over who left the damn bedroom light on again. You just shut it off, and move on wih your day.

It still drives you crazy, though, so us old married folk have to come to fark and share mutual empathy, kindness, and anger in equal doses.

BTW, if you think it's impossible to get severely, murderously annoyed with someone you love, you will be forever alone. Being in love is quite different than picking up someone's dirty socks off the living room floor every farking day of your life. People have different living habits, and some of those will always grate against each other
 
2013-02-20 09:11:44 PM

Elegy: BTW, if you think it's impossible to get severely, murderously annoyed with someone you love, you will be forever alone. Being in love is quite different than picking up someone's dirty socks off the living room floor every farking day of your life. People have different living habits, and some of those will always grate against each other


QFT. Very wise words.
 
2013-02-20 09:11:51 PM
dilbert.com

dilbert.com
 
2013-02-20 09:21:08 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's amusing that so many of you are married to dipshiats who won't shut up. I'd be sympathetic, but so many of you are also assholes, so I figure you deserve it.


Honey? Is that you?
I thought I asked you nicely to stay off the boards and stop lurking!
Now come to bed!
 
2013-02-20 09:24:08 PM
Let me just add this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoqpjOZxf2M

A lot of this thread is spot on, good luck folks!
 
2013-02-20 09:26:43 PM
dilbert.com

dilbert.com

dilbert.com
 
2013-02-20 09:27:05 PM
 
2013-02-20 09:27:57 PM

Elegy: A lot of people have replied to you with good answers, but I'll give you one more to chew on.


Again, that's not what I'm talking about. I've seen this in young people with sub-one-year relationships. It's not years of build up. It's having no interest other than the physical with that person and constantly complaining about them while staying as a "couple".

Elegy: BTW, if you think it's impossible to get severely, murderously annoyed with someone you love, you will be forever alone. Being in love is quite different than picking up someone's dirty socks off the living room floor every farking day of your life. People have different living habits, and some of those will always grate against each other


Been there, done that. Over the 7 years we had our fights. We got on each other's nerves. But we were also each other's best friends. Her most annoy habit was that she would intentionally ignore a problem in the hopes that it would go away on it's own because she hated doing things that she didn't want to and didn't want to have to deal with uncomfortable situations. Trust me, I know.

/In the end, though, she ripped out my heart in a really callous way.
//There is no love left.
 
2013-02-20 09:33:25 PM

Champion of the Sun: You're likely single because you think people can't love each other when they're not 100% compatible in every aspect of their life.


BZZT. 7 year relationship, lived together for years, almost got married, wasn't 100% compatible. Try again
 
2013-02-20 09:42:54 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: Again, that's not what I'm talking about. I've seen this in young people with sub-one-year relationships. It's not years of build up. It's having no interest other than the physical with that person and constantly complaining about them while staying as a "couple".


Ah. I think you threw me off by leading in with the "I'm never getting married like you people" part. All of the married people here share amusing stories about mild annoyances that we all relate too, but generally don't denigrate their SO out of hand.

I will agree, however, that there are significant number of posters here that I think "why in the hell did you get married" every time I read their posts. Those are the people that are divorced, or going through a divorce, generally.

The lesson here is not "don't get married" but "don't get a divorce."

Been there, done that. Over the 7 years we had our fights. We got on each other's nerves. But we were also each other's best friends. Her most annoy habit was that she would intentionally ignore a problem in the hopes that it would go away on it's own because she hated doing things that she didn't want to and didn't want to have to deal with uncomfortable situations. Trust me, I know.

/In the end, though, she ripped out my heart in a really callous way.
//There is no love left.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-20 09:45:28 PM
So much This in the thread...

When I ask "how was your day", I don't need a play by play of every single moment from the second she went out the door. And it's not limited to just real life...

My wife was watching a TV show when I entered the room. I start watching with her. "Who's that character?" leads to a very detailed description of every plot line, interaction and quote from the character since the series began six years ago. I just require enough information to know what's happening on the screen right at that moment.

One day we were "fortunately" watching Baywatch. I don't know why. I asked her who one of the women were, and before she could start with season one, scene one, I told her "Just tell me who she is. I don't need the history. Is she a long lost sister?"

"No, that's a former girlfriend."

"Great. Thanks. That's all I needed to know."

I said "fortunately" as from that day forward, when I want the quick answer, I tell her to give me "the Baywatch version."
 
2013-02-20 09:46:35 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: /In the end, though, she ripped out my heart in a really callous way.


She ran away with Paul Bunion?
 
2013-02-20 09:51:05 PM
i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-02-20 09:53:04 PM
The soon to be Mrs Crazy has actually flat out told me that when she complains about a problem that isn't "the toilet is overflowing" or "there's a cockroach" or "the stove is on fire", etc, she doesn't want a solution. Apparently reliving problems while she talks about them is fun or something.
 
2013-02-20 09:54:28 PM

Acharne: sethen320: My wife is horrible at communicating.  Incomplete thoughts, wrong words used, etc...

We just had a conversation about it the other day.  She has a bad habit of doing stuff like not actually pointing at things when asking for help retrieving something or whatnot.  She will "point" by looking at the object and then say "can you hand me that".  This typically leads to me or some other poor soul desperately trying to guess what "that" may be while being polite about it.  Meanwhile she gets more and more frustrated.  But dare ask "what does that mean" and she will have some roundabout reason as to why you should have known what she was wanting because she mentioned it in a conversation which happened anywhere from 15 minutes to two days ago.  And she will drone on about it for at least 5 minutes.

I used to think that it was reserved just for me but I've watched her go through this with others.  I tell her to take time, expend the syllables, and just explain what she wants.  The funny part is how frustrated she gets with everyone.  "Nobody ever listens to me!".  I told her we are listening, she just sucks at talking.

I had an outstanding example of this recently. GF is in a tizzy, moving here, cleaning this and generally butterflying around the apartment so I cannot 'do' anything except offer to help. I offer to help.

Me: Can I help?
Her: Uhhh.... uh..... put that in the closet. *Vague gesturing*
Me: Can you clarify please?
Her: *condescending voice* The extension cord, please put it in the closet.
Me: Ok, we have three closets, which one?
Her: The.....WHY would you put that in the closet in our room? That doesn't make any sense.
Me: Well I don't know why we would store an extension cord in any closet, I'm trying to help. Which closet please?
Her: Nevermind! I'll do it!


What follows is a two hour conversation on communication, presumption and body language. Her cleaning started because she saw me look at the living room and say 'We need to get this place ready for our houseguest', who was coming in a week. What I had actually been doing was responding to her friend who had asked me 'what are you doing with the toilet paper' I had in my hands. So while I was simply holding TP and replying to her friend, she took it as some sort of disastrous meta-comment on our apartment and by extension our relationship.  Christ.


Awesome.
 
2013-02-20 10:00:01 PM
Big shocker. Woman talk more than men. Also, water proved to be wet, sky blue. Stay tune for the dog bites man report.

/still no cure for cancer
 
2013-02-20 10:02:13 PM

Elegy: Ah. I think you threw me off by leading in with the "I'm never getting married like you people" part. All of the married people here share amusing stories about mild annoyances that we all relate too, but generally don't denigrate their SO out of hand.


Ah. I typed that up fresh off of a post work cat nap, so it might not have been the clearest. What I meant to lead with is that seeing the posts here made my mind wander to people that I know personally and the things that I've witnessed first hand.

Then again, I'm the kind of person whose mind is always active so I have way too much time to think about way too much over the course of the day. Lately that kind of thing has been on my mind. Not because of Valentine's day, though.

And thanks, bro. We had our fights over the years but we were also always there to have the other's back. We complimented each other as people and connected like we've never done with anyone else. Her racist, manipulative mother finally gave up trying to separate us because she saw how strong we were together. Her father was in awe in general and her ice-hearted biatch of a sister even warmed up to me. We outlasted every relationship that we saw our friends go through, including a marriage.

The break up was out of nowhere. It blindsided me and farked me up good. I learned the meaning of a lot of phrases over the years with her. In the end the final lesson was the meaning of "emotionally numb".

I'm much much better today, 2 years later, and spent the last year rebuilding and improving. New job, new hobbies, lost weight, etc. I'd be open to another relationship, but the kinda girls who would be into guys like me are rarer than rational discussions in the politics tab.
 
2013-02-20 10:03:11 PM

Jument: Ed Grubermann: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

She doesn't want the problem solved.

This should be the first thing any male human being is ever taught. When a woman tells you she has a problem, you need to very carefully consider whether or not she wants you to fix it before you open your trap. Most of the time, offering a rational solution will get you nothing but pain. Even if she says "the toilet is backed up, would you fix it?" you should spend a few seconds considering your response, just in case.


Screw that.

Teach broads to stick a sammich in their yammer box and hit then gym when they feel chatty. No pilates crap neither. Toss some medicine balls around and stuff like that. Really work it off.

Then women's magazines will read thusly:

Dear Agony Aunt,
My man won't shut up. He always wants to talk about his feelings. Why don't men ever get to the point!? Also did you see the new lambo? Sweet, huh?


Yammering is not based on sex, but lifestyle and social expectations. Women only blabber with no point because they're not chastised for it by society. Men are.

Men who aren't shut up? They yammer, too. Women who're told to spit it out or shut it? They talk like men. It's all down to nurture.
 
2013-02-20 10:07:21 PM

lantawa: CtrlAltDestroy: /In the end, though, she ripped out my heart in a really callous way.

She ran away with Paul Bunion?


Ha. It was actually a 10-years-older, uneducated, unemployed, married guy.

/Last that I knew, when I left that forsaken state and returned "home", they were still running around behind his wife's back when the wife was at work.
//They made sure to get him home before his wife returned from work so she wouldn't know that he was gone all day with someone else.
 
2013-02-20 10:11:53 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: The soon to be Mrs Crazy has actually flat out told me that when she complains about a problem that isn't "the toilet is overflowing" or "there's a cockroach" or "the stove is on fire", etc, she doesn't want a solution. Apparently reliving problems while she talks about them is fun or something.


My SO and I have had the same conversation. For me it is just a way to get things off my chest. I find myself angry or sad, I type my problems (which in reality are stupid things that i have little control over and don't really matter), I erase them. Other times I'm feeling overwhelmed so I just write a neat list of things I need to do and then I feel calm. Sometimes I think women are feeling lonely so they just want pointless chatter. To women these are all purposeful conversations; to men they are evidence that women are clearly insane.

I mean sometimes my SO even wants to tell me his problems.
 
2013-02-20 10:14:48 PM
ITT - Men complaining about why they are unhappy in relationships with women.

Solution: Legalization of prostitution.
 
2013-02-20 10:18:29 PM
this article and thread must be from the "if I tell myself something enough times, it must be true"...
 
2013-02-20 10:23:38 PM

CtrlAltDestroy: lantawa: CtrlAltDestroy: /In the end, though, she ripped out my heart in a really callous way.

She ran away with Paul Bunion?

Ha. It was actually a 10-years-older, uneducated, unemployed, married guy.

/Last that I knew, when I left that forsaken state and returned "home", they were still running around behind his wife's back when the wife was at work.
//They made sure to get him home before his wife returned from work so she wouldn't know that he was gone all day with someone else.


I hope that good things happen for and to you in the future. Regarding personal prospects, well, there are approx 7 billion people on the planet. Plenty of possibilities that good people await you in your future, chatty or otherwise.
 
2013-02-20 10:24:52 PM

spidermilk: I May Be Crazy But...: The soon to be Mrs Crazy has actually flat out told me that when she complains about a problem that isn't "the toilet is overflowing" or "there's a cockroach" or "the stove is on fire", etc, she doesn't want a solution. Apparently reliving problems while she talks about them is fun or something.

My SO and I have had the same conversation. For me it is just a way to get things off my chest. I find myself angry or sad, I type my problems (which in reality are stupid things that i have little control over and don't really matter), I erase them. Other times I'm feeling overwhelmed so I just write a neat list of things I need to do and then I feel calm. Sometimes I think women are feeling lonely so they just want pointless chatter. To women these are all purposeful conversations; to men they are evidence that women are clearly insane.

I mean sometimes my SO even wants to tell me his problems.


Yeah, for us it went roughly:

Me: "That's tough. I have no idea how to make it better."
Her: "Oh, I didn't expect you to."
Me, mind blown: "What?"
And now she explains.

It still baffles me, though, when we'll be walking to the car from our front door and she complains she's cold. When I suggest that I could go get her a jacket or sweater, she tells me she feels much better now that she's said something.
 
2013-02-20 10:27:31 PM

lantawa: I hope that good things happen for and to you in the future. Regarding personal prospects, well, there are approx 7 billion people on the planet. Plenty of possibilities that good people await you in your future, chatty or otherwise.


Thanks, man.
 
2013-02-20 10:36:47 PM

Theaetetus: reveal101: PanicAttack: my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them

As an ISTJ, I completely agree.

Another INTJ (male) here. I'm pretty sure that fark is filled with people with similar personality types, this opinion being based on over 10 years of lurking the threads. Introverted and extremely intelligent people tend to flock to this site.

[i1094.photobucket.com image 300x250]
Explain the politics tab, then.


Ha. I have winced my way through enough of those threads to genuinely appreciate that sentiment.  To be fair, you obviously can't hold us lurkers of the fark flock culpable.
 
2013-02-20 10:41:14 PM
Sigh... Everybody says I communicate like a woman. I know it's true.

Maybe I could make a career as an interpreter for men.
 
2013-02-20 10:44:37 PM

PanicAttack: my alt's alt's alt: I think it has more to do with personality type. In the eyes of Myers-Briggs, the typical "most womanly" personality type of ESFP is overtly talkative and superfluous in their speech patterns. Whereas myself, the INTJ woman, considers small talk stupid and pointless.

/other women don't "get" me, especially when my eyes glaze over while they ramble about talk shows and shoes
//men think I'm "cold"
///fark the lot of them

As an ISTJ, I completely agree.


I'm ISTJ too! :)
 
2013-02-20 11:06:05 PM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: PsiChick: Citation?

http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/siegle/research/Correlation/Intelligence .p df
p 85, second paragraph


"A high heritability does not mean that the environment has no impact on the development of a trait, or that
learning is not involved. Vocabulary size, for example, is
very substantially heritable (and highly correlated with
general psychometric intelligence) although every word
in an individual's vocabulary is learned. In a society in
which plenty of words are available in everyone's environment-especially for individuals who are motivated
to seek them out-the number of words that individuals
actually learn depends to a considerable extent on their
genetic predispositions."

Okay, let's analyze this. First, the statement that plenty of words are available in everyone's environment is total bullshiat--as two minutes on Google can reveal. Kids who grow up poor don't learn as many words. Second, this paragraph does  not differentiate between a case of genetic inheritance versus what I'm talking about, learned inheritance, which research  does support. If your parents have a huge vocabulary, you are most likely to have a huge vocabulary, even if you're not genetically related to them, which can be shown even through this example; poverty isn't genetic, but it has a hell of an influence.
 
2013-02-20 11:08:02 PM

vegaswench: I am going to teach a class. "How To Respond When Someone At Work Asks You How You Are 101."

Only accetable answer: "Fine, how are you?"

All other responses get an F.



So in your office, the conversation would go like this:

Jim: How are you?
Bob: Fine, how are you?
Jim: Fine, how are you?
Bob: Fine, how are you?
Jim: Fine, how are you?
Bob: Fine, how are you?
Jim: Fine, how are you?
Bob: Fine, how are you?
Jim: Fine, how are you?
Bob: Fine, how are you?
Jim: Fine, how are you?
Bob: Fine, how are you?
Jim: Fine, how are you?
 
2013-02-20 11:13:38 PM

Yanks_RSJ: Common refrain, by me:

"Honey, can we please jump ahead to the part where you tell me the specific details about what we have to attend?"

Then I get to eat dinner by myself, which is allegedly a punishment.


I tried getting an ex to follow newspaper story structure because she kept "burying the lead" with useless details. Did not work. Funny thing is she wouldn't say a damn thing when there were problems in our relationship, so when she decided to tell me it was over, it came completely out of the blue.
 
2013-02-20 11:19:22 PM
When a some random chick is just blabbering away at me I'm usually too busy undressing her with my mind to respond to everything she has said. Once you do this couple times its gets boring and then I find myself combining the random chicks in my mind in massive orgies.
 
2013-02-20 11:23:18 PM

Fribble: Does this cover "I'm not interested in what you are saying even though you appear passionate about it so I'm going to interrupt you with the most meaningless boring story in history that is only peripherally related but all about me" situation...

Because I farking hate to be


You were saying?
 
2013-02-20 11:23:26 PM
FTFA: In addition, women devote more brainpower to speaking.

 3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-20 11:25:17 PM

doczoidberg: Women run their mouths entirely too much, and the noise that comes out almost always is in the form of some pointless complaint.

Take my girlfriend, for instance. Always whining about something or another, or trying to tell me what to do. The other night, she insisted on having a big two hour fight over my leaving a towel on the counter while I was doing the dishes. What a waste of time, and what a horrible way to live -- some idiot complaining at you all day.

I tell you, this will be the last time I''' be foolish enough to throw my freedom away for some woman.


Keep her. She sounds like a diamond in the rough.
 
2013-02-20 11:33:10 PM

Caffandtranqs: WhippingBoy: Bronzemom: Bull manure.  Look how many words you knuckleheads use to claim women talk too much.
enough said

Uh-oh... someone's feeling a wee bit defensive, aren't they?

It's hilarious because it's true.  You guys are going on about women.....like a bunch of women.


They're doing it here because it's the only place they can get a word in edgewise.
 
2013-02-20 11:37:28 PM

ZeroCorpse: Sigh... Everybody says I communicate like a woman. I know it's true.

Maybe I could make a career as an interpreter for men.


This proves my point.

Your gonads don't determine speech pattern. Society does.
 
2013-02-20 11:45:19 PM

lantawa: CtrlAltDestroy: lantawa: CtrlAltDestroy: /In the end, though, she ripped out my heart in a really callous way.

She ran away with Paul Bunion?

Ha. It was actually a 10-years-older, uneducated, unemployed, married guy.

/Last that I knew, when I left that forsaken state and returned "home", they were still running around behind his wife's back when the wife was at work.
//They made sure to get him home before his wife returned from work so she wouldn't know that he was gone all day with someone else.

I hope that good things happen for and to you in the future. Regarding personal prospects, well, there are approx 7 billion people on the planet. Plenty of possibilities that good people await you in your future, chatty or otherwise.


Or insurmountable odds of finding someone compatible with my particular flavor of broken (I'm not CAD, but figured I'd inject my current dystopian view of dating after 3 months on Eharmony and not more than a 2nd date out of anything).
 
2013-02-20 11:46:54 PM
That's nice; do they have any idea as to why engineers can't deliver a joke, anecdote or explanation that isn't 10-15 minutes long?
 
2013-02-20 11:51:52 PM
So what I'm seeing a lot of in this thread, more like a man.
 
2013-02-21 12:05:43 AM

CheekyMonkey: hitlersbrain: If you are a man, imagine all the time, thought and energy you put into dreaming about sex and scheming to get sex. Assume women have about the same energy levels and that they have practically no sex drive. All that energy has to go somewhere right?

None of the women I've been in relationships with have had "practically no sex drive".  Unfortunately, they still won't shut up.  Sorry to blow your theory.


theresnothinglft: All conversation was invented as a means to assert dominance.  Since women can't physically assert dominance (usually) they use conversation.  It's super effective.


Conversation
Sexual attractiveness
Lack of personal need for logic
Nagging
Long nails
 
2013-02-21 12:08:08 AM

gmpathfinder: andyfromfl: gmpathfinder: KiltedBastich: PsiChick: ...Anthropology actually discusses the difference between a social trait and a biological trait as part of its field. Like, again, this is what they teach in 101. As do most other social sciences. Part of the waist-hip thing is that any biological inclination would be very slight, like TFA--so slight as to be, for all intents and purposes, nonexistant. Humans do not have many true instincts, and there are some behaviors that pattern across all cultures. Schizophrenia, for example, manifests the same way in every culture. That's a biological trait.

This study, in my eyes, may well have found a slight indicator of a mild tendency to language. But that's about it. In another culture, it would be unnoticeable, which means there's very little value in the real world in looking at it as an indicator, although certainly it's of value to further research. But at some point, .00000000000000001 is just 0.

Yeah, they discuss it, and they often get it wrong, because they are generally lay people with respect to the expression of biological traits in behaviour who have distinct biases against the very concept. I've got degrees in sociology and psychology. I've taken those 101 classes you speak of and they get a lot wrong when they talk about the natural science when you compare it with what the natural sciences are actually saying (and vice versa, of course; both sides of this issue exasperate me).

To continue the example, the waist-hip thing is found everywhere, in wildly varying cultures all over the world. It's common as dirt and it works cross culturally, in that people from one culture who share the trait will be able to accurately judge the relative attractiveness of women from very different cultures who share that particular trait. There are some culttures that display very different tendencies, but all of those are very specific to the particular cultures, and do not generalize well. The culture can overwrite the bas ...


Once again, we're not discussing whether or not this is true. Women talk more than men.

You won't be bringing it up again- is that clear?
 
2013-02-21 12:29:55 AM

Catlike Typist: That's nice; do they have any idea as to why engineers can't deliver a joke, anecdote or explanation that isn't 10-15 minutes long?


BLOW MMMMEEEEEE!!!!!!
 
2013-02-21 12:35:14 AM

PsiChick: A) Psychology is usually considered a social science. Neurology isn't, but psychology is. That's part of why psychology has a field devoted to uncovering the differences in psychology between cultures; there are very few hard and fast rules when you leave neurology behind.


There are aspects of psychology that use social science methodology, but there is a huge side of it that comes from the natural sciences. And if you think neuropsychology doesn't exist as a discipline that studies the way the biological brain affects cognition and behaviour, then I have to ask what rock you have been living under for the last few decades. I will also point out that you just created exactly the sort of artificial, arbitrary distinction I was talking about. You tried to separate into discrete categories something that is not in any way separate or discrete just to maintain your personal worldview.

We know that biological variation affects cognition. We know that different people respond differently to social pressures based on biological variations. Yet the social sciences for the most part prefer to pretend none of that exists.

PsiChick: B) I think you're mistaking my point. I'm not arguing that biology isn't an influence; I'm arguing that we all experience the same mild, universal biological urges, that our social training then translates on an unconscious level. It looks like instinct. It is not. Let's ignore your waist-to-hip ratio example and look at your example of parrots bobbing their heads. Why is the human bobbing their head? To keep in time with the crappy Vanilla Ice song they're playing. Why is the parrot bobbing his head? He's saying you have something he wants--it's body language. That's not the same thing.


That's the flip side of the coin from assuming biological determinism, and it's just as wrong. There is biological variation between humans, and the interaction of culture and biology expresses itself differently in each individual. Treating variation in outcome as if all the variability is due to social forces because the biology is presumed to be invariant is just as wrongheaded as assuming that all human traits are due to the biology and the social influences are inconsequential.

And no, when I talk about parrots and beat induction, I am being very specific. I am not talking about parrots bobbing their heads to get something they want. I am specifically referring to the ability to follow the beat of music.

PsiChick: What I'm talking about is better described using this example: In America, common methods of suicide are guns and knives, but in the Middle East, it's fire. Why? Because the same urge--a strong one, in this case--is translated differently due to unrelated ideas about symbolism, sexyness of weapons, etc.. That's culture. It gives a lens for a biologically-based reaction, or sometimes psychologically-based. Now, language is much more complicated, and from what I know feral children never learn it without someone actively teaching it to them. That indicates that it's insanely unlikely that any biology has such an effect on language that it would influence word count. But a researcher might find that if they hadn't studied social sciences and didn't realize language is not innate.


Um, that last part about language is exactly backwards. Biology has a huge impact on our language use. Children have the ability to easily acquire language fluency at a young age during a critical period of development. They will easily learn any languages they are exposed to consistently during this period. Language acquisition after this period becomes much more difficult even in later childhood, and if the child is not exposed to language at all during this critical period of brain development, then language acquisition will be permanently stunted, such that any later language use will be simplistic, stilted and halting, often with very basic grammar and syntax. The case of Genie provided a lot of the initial evidence about this developmental pathway, but it has been confirmed since by other cases.

This can express itself in strange ways. If you immerse a child in one language for the first part of the critical period, but then change the language they are exposed to right at the end, you get a person who grows up with a strong accent of the former language even if they lose all actual fluency in the language, because the brain has already absorbed the phoneme structure even if the actual language itself is lost.

Heck, we even know what parts of the brain are responsible for language. Broca's area and Wernicke's area both influence language, and damaging either leads to a form of aphasia - but of totally different varieties. Damage to Broca's area leads to speech which is grammatical and meaningful, but slow and halting with simple sentence structure and which lacks fluency. Damage to Wernicke's area leads to fluent speech that is produced easily, but which is nonsensical and lacks any grammatical or syntactic structure.

So we actually know that language is deeply and fundamentally dependent on brain development and function - just like everything else we do, because the brain is the seat of the mind. To presume that variations in brain function cannot lead to variations in language use is ludicrous. In fact, we already know there are differences in language processing in the brain based on sex, with women being more bilateral while men are left lateral. And yet you are instantly willing to dismiss out of hand the possibility that there could be anything other than cultural influences on language use and acquisition.

Why? This is exactly the kind of academic presumption I am talking about. You apparently have a background in the social sciences, and so you accept the dogma of the social sciences that say the biological differences are not important and can be safely ignored when studying human behaviour, despite the vast amount of available evidence coming out of psychology that this is not the case and has never been the case.
 
2013-02-21 12:41:18 AM

kroonermanblack: lantawa: CtrlAltDestroy: lantawa: CtrlAltDestroy: /In the end, though, she ripped out my heart in a really callous way.

She ran away with Paul Bunion?

Ha. It was actually a 10-years-older, uneducated, unemployed, married guy.

/Last that I knew, when I left that forsaken state and returned "home", they were still running around behind his wife's back when the wife was at work.
//They made sure to get him home before his wife returned from work so she wouldn't know that he was gone all day with someone else.

I hope that good things happen for and to you in the future. Regarding personal prospects, well, there are approx 7 billion people on the planet. Plenty of possibilities that good people await you in your future, chatty or otherwise.

Or insurmountable odds of finding someone compatible with my particular flavor of broken (I'm not CAD, but figured I'd inject my current dystopian view of dating after 3 months on Eharmony and not more than a 2nd date out of anything).


I tried the online thing. I'm an exception- there's a reason most people are online dating. I used it to increase my pool from just the people I met at a bar and in person.

Go make yourself so busy you forget that you want a relationship, then start a business on top of it. They'll be pounding down your door- you're not ready now.
 
2013-02-21 12:47:09 AM

gmpathfinder: Controlled studies of word use between women and men have consistently found no significant difference between words per day.
The article links another article as 'evidence' for the 7k word per day difference, yet the linked article absolutely does not support that claim.

Other than anecdote, there's really no evidence that men speak less (or women speak more). Rather, there's a wide range of speech use in both men and women, and we tend to remember individuals who violate the norm (for example, women who talk a lot). A lot of this is confirmation bias.

There are gender differences in what people talk about, but not how much across the day.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11762186

Disagree? Show me a well documented, peer reviewed, adequately controlled experiment that shows a significant difference between gender that's not explained by other factors.


Here's the best one I could find. Note that they only deal with word count in passing.
 
2013-02-21 12:49:00 AM

KiltedBastich: gmpathfinder: Controlled studies of word use between women and men have consistently found no significant difference between words per day.
The article links another article as 'evidence' for the 7k word per day difference, yet the linked article absolutely does not support that claim.

Other than anecdote, there's really no evidence that men speak less (or women speak more). Rather, there's a wide range of speech use in both men and women, and we tend to remember individuals who violate the norm (for example, women who talk a lot). A lot of this is confirmation bias.

There are gender differences in what people talk about, but not how much across the day.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11762186

Disagree? Show me a well documented, peer reviewed, adequately controlled experiment that shows a significant difference between gender that's not explained by other factors.

Here's the best one I could find. Note that they only deal with word count in passing.


That was directed at me, thanks for the backup.

This is the danger with science worshipers- just as a program is only as good as its programmer, a study is only as good as the scientist. The fact that a study promotes an opinion doesn't mean it's the end all and be all- they have flaws.

Women talk more than men in America. Studies that find otherwise are flawed.
 
2013-02-21 01:09:49 AM
My ex accidentally conditioned me to ignore non-interrogatory female speech. Seriously, if I'm doing literally anything other than focusing on the conversation my brain treats sentences not containing that questioning upward inflection as superfluous. It's not something that I do on purpose, it's just an automatic reaction to the 8 years of mindless noise I was subjected to. I didn't even notice it was happening until I bought a new phone; You see the GPS app it came with uses a variety of female voices to direct you along your route. For weeks I swore up and down that the damned thing was skipping directions until I finally realized I was filtering it out subconsciously.

/New girlfriend talks just as much, but doesn't seek confirmation
//Her European accent is pleasant too
///3rd thing
 
2013-02-21 01:17:22 AM

Linkster: Catlike Typist: That's nice; do they have any idea as to why engineers can't deliver a joke, anecdote or explanation that isn't 10-15 minutes long?

BLOW MMMMEEEEEE!!!!!!


^Perfect example: twice as many words as needed.
 
2013-02-21 01:56:55 AM

Talos: I'm surprised no one has brought up the cell phone factor.

When there's a cell phone involved the amount of superfluous b.s. women feel the need to talk about goes up by a factor of about 39 brazillion.


I have quite seriously considered attempting to punch wimmenfolks on the public transit for this kinda shiat. Oh my f**king gods how they yak. And yak. And yak. And yak. And yak. And yak. And yak.

And I AM a wimmenfolk.
 
2013-02-21 02:06:09 AM

farkingnotworking: YixilTesiphon: WTF is wrong with your wives?

I'm wondering that too.  And why do you stay with them if they annoy you so?


alimony/child support
 
2013-02-21 02:22:52 AM

noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!


Just once, try this and see what happens:

"We're eating at Bucket O' Clams tonight.  Go get ready."

Don't forget to report your findings.
 
2013-02-21 02:30:19 AM

Fark Rye For Many Whores: For another example, color blindness is (usually) on the X chromosome(s), which IS a sex chromosome.

/see how that doesn't make sense
//I think Y is more reliably filled with gender traits but I'm not even sure


Yes, the gene for red-green color blindness is on the X chromosome. But it's a recessive trait and that's why it almost always shows up in males but is passed on by the mother. The male only has one X chromosome so if it has the gene it's expressed. A female has two, so if she has one X chromosome with the gene but the other one doesn't have the gene then it's not expressed.
 
2013-02-21 02:38:37 AM
My boyfriend is the chatty one. He even babbles through texts, it's crazy. Sweet, but crazy. And lord help you if you drink a couple of glasses of wine with him- that's when the guitar comes out, then all bets are off.
 
2013-02-21 02:42:36 AM
My ex would say a hundred times a day: "I love youuuu."
Initially I'd say "I love you too."; and I meant it.
After a while there was a pause after she said "I love youuuu.", followed by "don't you love meeee?".
And initially, I said "oh.. yeah, of course I love you".
I think you can see where this is going.
Eventually, finally, my answer was "no".
I had to call the cops.
 
2013-02-21 03:16:49 AM

phrenicmonkey: My ex would say a hundred times a day: "I love youuuu."
Initially I'd say "I love you too."; and I meant it.
After a while there was a pause after she said "I love youuuu.", followed by "don't you love meeee?".
And initially, I said "oh.. yeah, of course I love you".
I think you can see where this is going.
Eventually, finally, my answer was "no".
I had to call the cops.


That was a pointless post.  Apologies.  Drinking.
 
2013-02-21 03:19:26 AM

arghyematey: My boyfriend is the chatty one. He even babbles through texts, it's crazy. Sweet, but crazy. And lord help you if you drink a couple of glasses of wine with him- that's when the guitar comes out, then all bets are off.


Have you tried beating him over his head with said guitar?  I'm sure it will do the job -- one way or another.
 
2013-02-21 05:35:03 AM
Aside from the biological aspects, some of this perception of extra talking is just the difference between extroverts and introverts. There certainly are women that are quiet, but the ones always running their mouths are more noticeable.

On a social level though I believe women will talk more because of the attention they receive from men they feel their opinions are valued more than they are. Thus the bored wife complaining her husband doesn't listen to her anymore, but other men seem interested in what she has to say.
 
2013-02-21 05:47:47 AM
I find men and woman usually both say too many boring things I don't want to listen to. Both always seem to want to talk about what they ate and things they recently bought which I don't give a flying fark about.
 
2013-02-21 06:07:32 AM

PsiChick: I love hard sciences, but occasionally I wonder if they're trying to parody themselves. Just because you can't measure social influence with decimal points doesn't mean social influence doesn't exist. It just means you need to figure out a different measurement.


It sounds more like you're the one making a parody of what people actually think.
I'm a physicist, and nobody I know actually alleges that the phenomena described by social sciences don't exist.  They don't even say that they aren't useful.  What they do point out is that they are not deterministic.  In other words, even if you do "figure out a different measurement", when you actually take those measurements it references only a definition that YOU created instead of something that exists objectively.  Or, if it does exist objectively, it is something which cannot be quantified in any reliable way.  When people involved in the "hard sciences" complain about this they aren't saying that the phenomena don't exist, even if that's what it sounds like to you.  What they're doing is pointing out that the observations being made can't be used to objectively or unambiguously support or falsify any particular theory.  In the hard sciences, this is functionally the same as not having any data at all.

No reasonable person denies the results of operant conditioning experiments, or the existence of emotions (whether we can measure them or not), or the ability of therapists to help people with counseling.  But neither is it reasonable to suggest that social science theories meet the same rigorous criteria for reproducibility, predictive power, or even falsifiability that the "hard sciences" do.
 
2013-02-21 06:19:37 AM

ciberido: I think many of them find the idea that human behavior can be studied and understood intimidating.


Lol, that's silly.  Why would you think that?
No, in my experience, they just find their standards for the scientific hallmarks of "evidence", or "predictability" to be sadly lackluster.

I actually think that the study of behavior, or especially more fundamental things like consciousness, to be intensely interesting.  I also do not fault those fields for being so imprecise, largely because I recognize that they are this way because they stem from the analysis of a highly complex and chaotic system (a highly mathematical concept itself).

Perhaps in time we will develop the biotechnology to analyze those complex neural networks in our heads in a more deterministic and precise way, but until then things like psychology will have to serve as crude exploratory tools.
 
2013-02-21 06:21:54 AM

OgreMagi: arghyematey: My boyfriend is the chatty one. He even babbles through texts, it's crazy. Sweet, but crazy. And lord help you if you drink a couple of glasses of wine with him- that's when the guitar comes out, then all bets are off.

Have you tried beating him over his head with said guitar?  I'm sure it will do the job -- one way or another.


Wine is a real son of a biatch for making people not shut up. I know someone who turns into the grand philosopher when he hits the wine. If you don't listen to every damn grand thought, then there's a hissy fit.
 
2013-02-21 07:31:43 AM

noitsnot: M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...


M: Well you will have to think of where you want or we are not going anywhere.
F: How about KFC?
M: OK.

Why did you have a problem? Because you tried to fix the problem and so BECAME the problem. Make HER the problem and she will fix it.
 
2013-02-21 07:39:20 AM

Ed Grubermann: My problems is with all the unrelated tangents, background data I don't need or want, and repetition of things I already know.


That's everyone.  My boss, coworkers, and various friends have this habit of telling a story as if it's a full-on play with acting and movement. Just tell me the fact quickly and with no unnecessary embellishments.

/grumpy in the morning makes me even more terse.
 
2013-02-21 07:49:10 AM

WhippingBoy: Jument: After reading this thread I can only conclude that most of us are married to the same woman.

They're all the same woman, deep down inside.


Might be a good idea to look for intelligence and education in a woman instead of beauty and willingness to do sexual favors.  Seriously though, my brother's wife is the nagging type and I just want to take her into a room and let her know she's doing our gender a disservice by acting like a whiny, needy two-year-old that craves attention at all times.  I personally, don't feel the need to inundate my husband with useless facts and assumptions I've made throughout my day.   That's wasting his time and mine.  But then again, I never did get along with the typical females around me as well as the men.  Could be why I chose the industry I did.

/IT Networking and engineering.
 
2013-02-21 07:55:06 AM

dready zim: noitsnot: M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...

M: Well you will have to think of where you want or we are not going anywhere.
F: How about KFC?
M: OK.

Why did you have a problem? Because you tried to fix the problem and so BECAME the problem. Make HER the problem and she will fix it.


solution to all your food shortages

images.wikia.com
 
2013-02-21 07:58:02 AM

Pilikia: HER: "What did you buy at Walgreens today?
ME: "Where?"
HER: "Walgreens. I was looking at the checking account online and saw a debit card transaction for $5.43."
ME: "Oh. Tylenol. I had a bad headache."
HER: "I thought we were going to discuss debit card purchases together before making them as part of our new family budget plan."
ME: "Um..."
HER: "I mean, you can't just live your own separate life like this. We need to communicate if we're going to make this budget work. You know the Millers, right? They put all of their expenditures from each day into a spreadsheet together, every night, and they..."
ME: (leaving room)
HER: "Where are you going?"
ME: "Getting the Tylenol."


That's why we have our checking accts separate.  As long as we pay what we need to pay (rent, etc) then neither has any say over what the other is using their money for.
 
2013-02-21 08:01:44 AM
Y'know what gets me?  Is when we went to our financial advisor and the guy is all like (motioning to me) says something about cooking, and (motioning to my husband) says something about fixing computers.  I married a chef... and I work in IT.  We just laughed at him.  I call him if I can't figure out how to flambee (or some other culinary complex thing) something.  He calls me for stuff like fixing a car or his computer.  Neither of us feel the need to shove the other into a cookie cutter hole based on gender stereotypes and it gets me all kinds of riled when others try to.
 
2013-02-21 08:04:05 AM

vegaswench: I am going to teach a class. "How To Respond When Someone At Work Asks You How You Are 101."

Only accetable answer: "Fine, how are you?"

All other responses get an F.


I dunno, I'm kind of partial to "Too early to tell" as an answer, especially when I'm still getting coffee.
 
2013-02-21 08:04:10 AM

Kittypie070: Talos: I'm surprised no one has brought up the cell phone factor.

When there's a cell phone involved the amount of superfluous b.s. women feel the need to talk about goes up by a factor of about 39 brazillion.

I have quite seriously considered attempting to punch wimmenfolks on the public transit for this kinda shiat. Oh my f**king gods how they yak. And yak. And yak. And yak. And yak. And yak. And yak.

And I AM a wimmenfolk.


Agreed. I'd rather shoot off a text to someone than talk to them.  It's just a bother to have to tell them the one thing I needed an answer to and then have to pad it with stupid 'how was your day' nonsense so you don't seem rude.
 
2013-02-21 08:06:03 AM

Darke: Y'know what gets me?  Is when we went to our financial advisor and the guy is all like (motioning to me) says something about cooking, and (motioning to my husband) says something about fixing computers.  I married a chef... and I work in IT.  We just laughed at him.  I call him if I can't figure out how to flambee (or some other culinary complex thing) something.  He calls me for stuff like fixing a car or his computer.  Neither of us feel the need to shove the other into a cookie cutter hole based on gender stereotypes and it gets me all kinds of riled when others try to.


rape rape rape rape rape rape rape
 
2013-02-21 08:15:35 AM
why do women with low dopamine talk even more? any neuroscientists in the thread?
also,
why does bupropion/wellbutrin not even touch it?
 
2013-02-21 08:18:53 AM

utah dude: why do women with low dopamine talk even more? any neuroscientists in the thread?
also,
why does bupropion/wellbutrin not even touch it?


you sound like a rapist? what's your name??
 
2013-02-21 08:22:54 AM

Amos Quito: Fascinating.


hahaha. aq. classiq. love ya'.
 
2013-02-21 08:23:59 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: utah dude: why do women with low dopamine talk even more? any neuroscientists in the thread?
also,
why does bupropion/wellbutrin not even touch it?

you sound like a rapist? what's your name??


axe body spray. but i'm a corporation, not a person, so you can't charge me. besides, my smell is a gift from G-d, not rape.
 
2013-02-21 08:38:45 AM
Think I figured this one out.

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-02-21 08:49:35 AM

I May Be Crazy But...: The soon to be Mrs Crazy has actually flat out told me that when she complains about a problem that isn't "the toilet is overflowing" or "there's a cockroach" or "the stove is on fire", etc, she doesn't want a solution. Apparently reliving problems while she talks about them is fun or something.


It's like reviewing a problem.  She's a big girl - can solve it on her own in her own time.  Talking about it might help her see new avenues to fixing it... or maybe she's letting you know something's wrong so you're not like "what's wrong?" and worried.
 
2013-02-21 08:51:33 AM

dmax: Used to have a lot of arguments that seemed like skew lines. I had one point, she had another. I noticed she would talk in one direction and I wanted another.

But I like the science, not the touchy feely self-help books.

So, since we like to read out loud to each other on road trips, while the other drives, we read Deborah Tannen's "You Just Don't Understand." Saved our marriage. Gave out dozens of copies to friends.

She is a linguist that studies how the different genders talk. TL;DR of her book: women talk in terms of association, horizontally, ("she's my best friend." "Let's do this together." That clique stuff.) but men talk in terms of power and control, vertically ("I'm the king." "Who's in charge here?" The totem pole of power).

So, when my wife asks, "Are you up for a movie tonight?" she's thinking "Let's do something together." but I'm hearing "I'm telling you that I've made plans for us."


If you interpret "Are you up for a movie tonight?" as "I've made plans for us" then either you aren't actually listening to what your wife is saying, or you don't have a very good grasp on the English language.  Words have specific meanings for a reason, and if everyone (men and women) were more precise in their use of language, I think many arguments could be avoided.
 
2013-02-21 08:56:43 AM

big pig peaches: bunner: "You should do ~n before it gets cold"

"I will."

"No, you wont.  You say you will but you never finish anything."

"Didn't I do A,. B, B and all that other crap you asked about last  month?"

"Only because I nagged you."

"Are you sure?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean, cause and effect.  Have you tried NOT nagging me and seeing what happens?"

"You're not the only person who makes decisions in this family!"

"What's that got to do with anything?"

"Why are you so pigheaded?"

"Why do you have to try and convince me that without your foot up my ass, I couldn't tie my own shoes?"

"Whut UVER, you are so immature."

"Yes, that must be it."

"So are you going to do ~n?"

"*sigh*"

Please stop dating my wife.


Guys, since we're clearly all married to the same chick, you might consider what I've done, which is to passive-aggressively "remind" her to do her mundane chores right at the second she was about to do it anyway. When she inevitably loses her shiat, I remind her that this is how nagging feels, and she does this every day. I tell her to imagine how a person could deal with this kind of abuse day after day while only reacting in kind with silly reminders to illustrate why the behavior is objectionable instead of thumping his chest like a gorilla and screaming obscenities.
I then tell her that she had the good taste to marry such a patient individual, and that it'd still be best not to assume he doesn't know how to thump things and scream obscenities, because everyone can flip the fark out sometimes.

It's easy to deal with people if you just assume these three things:

1. Anyone can kill anyone, and they frequently do. If you abuse any person, you have no idea how they will react to it, because you don't know if you're the first person to pull that bullshiat on them or the 40th. Be kind.

2. People tend to be nice to you if you're nice to them first. They tend to be helpful towards those people they suspect would help them too. They tend to be unhelpful and spiteful towards takers, sociopaths, and selfish creeps.

3. People lack introspection to such a degree that most of the time someone is horribly unjust to you, they aren't conscious of it. They are usually simply reacting emotionally, like an animal. You'll have to be patient if you're the thinking type and you want to hang with less thinky types.
 
2013-02-21 09:15:52 AM

noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!


YOU pick the place, and make it a binary choice:  Honey, do you want to stay in, or go to dinner at the Texas Cheesecake Depository?

She can either pick one of the above, or suggest another place, but 'no' is not a valid answer.
 
2013-02-21 09:48:06 AM

CheekyMonkey: noitsnot: I have one!  It's called "the Dinner Game":

M: Where do you want to eat?
F: I don't know...
M: How about Jimmies?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Lobster Pile?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Steak and Poop?
F: No...
M: Well, where would YOU like to go?
F: I don't know...
M: OK, how about Miles O' Bacon?
F: No...
M: OK, how about Cheese Weasel?
F: No...
M: Well, I guess we could stay in then.
F: BUT YOU SAID WE WERE GOING OUUUUUUT!

YOU pick the place, and make it a binary choice:  Honey, do you want to stay in, or go to dinner at the Texas Cheesecake Depository?

She can either pick one of the above, or suggest another place, but 'no' is not a valid answer.


In all seriousness (hilarious thread aside) PrincessApult and I have a solution to this indecisiveness problem.  I pick 5 places right off the bat, she vetoes 2 or 3 of them giving a reason why.  I choose from the remainder telling her why I made my pick.  Or vice-versa. Neither of us can be blamed because we both had a say in the decision.  We have modified this to work for many decisions with multiple options in our relationship.
Seems to work ok, and you COMMUNICATE.  I know, its one of those weird things you have to do every once and a while.
 
2013-02-21 09:54:04 AM

Fafai: Ed Grubermann:

She doesn't want the problem solved.

Understanding this makes it even MORE infuriating. It's farking pathetic and a huge turn off to listen to someone biatch about shiat they can't even be assed to fix even when the solution is simple as fark, as it is half the time. Lazy AND entitled.


You STILL haven't grasped that SHE'S NOT LOOKING FOR A SOLUTION.  Doesn't matter how infuriating it is for you - she doesn't want it.  She just wants you to listen to her, and doesn't get why you can't do that one simple thing for her.  That's the flip side - she's just as frustrated with you as you are with her.

Both of you do need to find an acceptable middle ground.  Believe me, I understand your frustration - I go through the same thing with my GF.  What I do is listen to whatever BS problem she has but doesn't want solved, for about 5 minutes.  After that, I interrupt and say, "I'm going to to X* now - if you want talk more about this, come talk to me while I do it".  More often than not, that initial 5 minutes turns out to be sufficient, and even if it isn't, doing X at least gives me something constructive to do while I'm listening to her.

*X must be some small chore that is on the mutually-agreed list of things to be done, like getting the dead bugs out of the ceiling fan light fixture or bringing in more firewood, that you don't really want to do, but that she will never do.
 
2013-02-21 10:01:26 AM

fredklein: Ed Grubermann: fredklein: ciberido: She didn't ask you for advice. She told you she had a problem, because she wanted a shoulder to cry on.

Crying on a shoulder doesn't solve the problem. (unless the problem is a dry shoulder). Solving the problem solves the problem.

She doesn't want the problem solved.

Then why is she talking about it?


Because (apparently) just talking about it makes her feel better.  Yeah, I don't really understand it either, but I accept it.  If you can't help yourself, and decide you MUST provide a solution, it may help to preface it with "If you're looking for a solution..." rather than just saying "You should do X".  That way it doesn't seem to her like you are telling her what to do.
 
2013-02-21 10:07:25 AM

andyfromfl: KiltedBastich: gmpathfinder: Controlled studies of word use between women and men have consistently found no significant difference between words per day.
The article links another article as 'evidence' for the 7k word per day difference, yet the linked article absolutely does not support that claim.

Other than anecdote, there's really no evidence that men speak less (or women speak more). Rather, there's a wide range of speech use in both men and women, and we tend to remember individuals who violate the norm (for example, women who talk a lot). A lot of this is confirmation bias.

There are gender differences in what people talk about, but not how much across the day.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11762186

Disagree? Show me a well documented, peer reviewed, adequately controlled experiment that shows a significant difference between gender that's not explained by other factors.

Here's the best one I could find. Note that they only deal with word count in passing.

That was directed at me, thanks for the backup.


You probably should've read his link before you thank him. It has nothing to do with word count, except that they happened to select a particular sample (54 short letters to Ladies Home Journal) that had more female text than male text. Word count is mentioned in passing merely to show that their statistical analysis of  other features was not based on a small sample size. That study, however, says nothing about a difference between amount of speech by either gender.
 
2013-02-21 10:10:41 AM

KiltedBastich: The thing is that the social sciences have a lingering aspect of human exceptionalism to them. We retain this notion that we are somehow distinctly different from animals in our cognition and behaviour and it's bullshiat. Everything we do, cognitively speaking, can be detected in other animals. The difference is in degree, not kind. In fact the rarest traits, the ones that are closest to unique, are not things like cultural transmission of information, but rather obscure things like beat induction, the ability to bob along to a beat. Last I checked, the only other animals that do that are parrots, of all things.


No, and your long-winded, argumentative post demonstrates that.
 
2013-02-21 10:16:12 AM

PsiChick: ciberido: PsiChick: More like: "We have never once even  heard of linguistic anthropology, because social sciences are for LOOZERS!". Seriously, hard sciences have  got to STFU about soft sciences, because  social sciences occasionally find out shiat that makes you look like a retard, such as the current theory that's so secure it's taught to 101 students: Women and men have differing speech patterns because of cultural hardwiring. Unless you find a pattern that occurs in  multiple different cultures before globalization, you are  not looking at biology, you're looking at culture.

I love hard sciences, but occasionally I wonder if they're trying to parody themselves. Just because you can't measure social influence with decimal points doesn't mean social influence doesn't exist. It just means you need to figure out a different measurement.

People who are big into hard science are very often spooked by softer science.  I think many of them find the idea that human behavior can be studied and understood intimidating.

I think it's partly because, in America at least, we have this idea that a true scientist is unemotional, hyperliteral, and incapable of relating to other humans floating around our grab bag of cultural stereotypes. Drives me farking nuts. If you're scared of emotions because you can't play with decimals, that's called social anxiety, not rational behavior.


I knew there was a reason I had you favourited.
 
2013-02-21 10:36:05 AM

Gawdzila: PsiChick: I love hard sciences, but occasionally I wonder if they're trying to parody themselves. Just because you can't measure social influence with decimal points doesn't mean social influence doesn't exist. It just means you need to figure out a different measurement.

It sounds more like you're the one making a parody of what people actually think.
I'm a physicist, and nobody I know actually alleges that the phenomena described by social sciences don't exist.  They don't even say that they aren't useful.  What they do point out is that they are not deterministic.  In other words, even if you do "figure out a different measurement", when you actually take those measurements it references only a definition that YOU created instead of something that exists objectively.  Or, if it does exist objectively, it is something which cannot be quantified in any reliable way.  When people involved in the "hard sciences" complain about this they aren't saying that the phenomena don't exist, even if that's what it sounds like to you.  What they're doing is pointing out that the observations being made can't be used to objectively or unambiguously support or falsify any particular theory.  In the hard sciences, this is functionally the same as not having any data at all.

No reasonable person denies the results of operant conditioning experiments, or the existence of emotions (whether we can measure them or not), or the ability of therapists to help people with counseling.  But neither is it reasonable to suggest that social science theories meet the same rigorous criteria for reproducibility, predictive power, or even falsifiability that the "hard sciences" do.


*sigh* Okay, first: Noting a stereotype. As I pointed out, not everyone behaves this way--it's just very noticeable sometimes. Second, yes, social sciences do not use the same measurements, but that does  not mean theories cannot be supported or falsified. Theories  can be supported or falsified using social science measurements, they just can't be measured in  numbers. For example, an anthropologist might say that, I don't know, horticultural societies tend to be matriarchial because of green aliens.  That is a theory that can be proven or disproven. It's still farking science.

KiltedBastich: Why? This is exactly the kind of academic presumption I am talking about. You apparently have a background in the social sciences, and so you accept the dogma of the social sciences that say the biological differences are not important and can be safely ignored when studying human behaviour, despite the vast amount of available evidence coming out of psychology that this is not the case and has never been the case.


...I think you're misunderstanding my fundamental point. Biological differences exist and have effects on humans, yes. As you noted, brain damage can in fact impair language functions, the human mind is hardwired to pick up language, all those things. But  word count is probably  not a factor that's biologically influenced to any real degree, because word count would depend on a whole host of non-biological factors, like your language (Spanish speakers probably have a much higher word count than English speakers on average), your time period (I doubt women had a higher word count in, say, the Victorian Era, when silence was not only golden but could be a good chunk of whether or not you got a husband), and what is or is not socially acceptable to say at that time. I babble sometimes. Does that mean I've got a higher count of this protein then? Nope, it means I'm in a situation where my specific reaction, taught by society, is to babble.

If you think word count is biologically influenced, that's fine, but a study from a culture that expects to find exactly this result sounds a bit suspicious to me.
 
2013-02-21 10:45:48 AM

ChaoticLimbs: big pig peaches: bunner: "You should do ~n before it gets cold"

"I will."

"No, you wont.  You say you will but you never finish anything."

"Didn't I do A,. B, B and all that other crap you asked about last  month?"

"Only because I nagged you."

"Are you sure?"

"What do you mean?"

"I mean, cause and effect.  Have you tried NOT nagging me and seeing what happens?"

"You're not the only person who makes decisions in this family!"

"What's that got to do with anything?"

"Why are you so pigheaded?"

"Why do you have to try and convince me that without your foot up my ass, I couldn't tie my own shoes?"

"Whut UVER, you are so immature."

"Yes, that must be it."

"So are you going to do ~n?"

"*sigh*"

Please stop dating my wife.

Guys, since we're clearly all married to the same chick, you might consider what I've done, which is to passive-aggressively "remind" her to do her mundane chores right at the second she was about to do it anyway. When she inevitably loses her shiat, I remind her that this is how nagging feels, and she does this every day. I tell her to imagine how a person could deal with this kind of abuse day after day while only reacting in kind with silly reminders to illustrate why the behavior is objectionable instead of thumping his chest like a gorilla and screaming obscenities.


I tried that once for a month, along with keeping a daily journal of the chores I did, things I fixed and family activities I participated in (yes, I probably did more than usual since I was keeping track). It was like a really long game of Texas Hold'em held in the back room of a mafia-controlled pizzeria.

But it was worth it - I walked away with my chips and my balls... and the frightening realization that what took me an immense amount of focus and energy to sustain, she keeps in her head every second of every day. Three words - bigger corpus callosum.
 
2013-02-21 10:53:25 AM

andyfromfl: That was directed at me, thanks for the backup.

This is the danger with science worshipers- just as a program is only as good as its programmer, a study is only as good as the scientist. The fact that a study promotes an opinion doesn't mean it's the end all and be all- they have flaws.

Women talk more than men in America. Studies that find otherwise are flawed.


No, it was directed at me. I replied to the Weeners to me in the thread. And you are quite wrong. The notion of "science worship" is a ridiculous distortion promoted by those who already have a religious mindset. Here's a big clue for you: one of the surest ways for a scientist (or other academic more generally) to make their reputation is to disprove an existing theory held as true by the scientific community. Scientists do not "worship" science. They challenge it and test it, constantly. That you do not already knows this demonstrates how little you know about science.

Furthermore, what "everybody knows" is very often completely incorrect. You don't get to dismiss science because it disagrees with your preexisting biases any more than you get to accept it just because it agrees with it. All claims must be judged on their merits based on the evidence. That is all. Your opinion is not an argument. Opinions are like shadows. Everyone has one, and they carry no weight.

My point is not that men or women do or do not speak more words. It is that it is fallacious to dismiss out of hand as a cause either explanations based in the natural sciences or explanations based on the social sciences.

Carousel Beast: No, and your long-winded, argumentative post demonstrates that.


You fail at reading comprehension. Just after the point that you bolded, I mentioned that the difference is in degree, not kind. In case you don't understand those terms, I will try to make it simpler. We do lots of complicated things with our minds. Animals have been shown to do all of them, in simpler forms. Any guess what? We've seen animals use language - in simpler but similar ways to us. We've seen them argue - in simpler but similar ways to us. We've seen them use tools to make tools, to demonstrate a rudimentary theory of mind, to engage in the social transmission of knowledge, to exhibit cultural variations between groups - all in ways that are simpler but similar to how we do things.

We are not unique in terms of our innate cognitive faculties. We've just got more developed faculties for certain cognitive abilities, and even then many of the things we treat as important are done better by other animals. Chimpanzees have recently been tested and shown to have better memories than we do, and even chickadees with brains the size of a pea can perform feats of long term recall of staggering difficulty by human standards as a matter of course.
 
2013-02-21 10:54:05 AM

andyfromfl: Women talk more than men in America. Studies that find otherwise are flawed.


So basically, "If science doesn't agree with me, science is wrong."  Got it.
 
2013-02-21 10:58:12 AM

PsiChick: ...I think you're misunderstanding my fundamental point. Biological differences exist and have effects on humans, yes. As you noted, brain damage can in fact impair language functions, the human mind is hardwired to pick up language, all those things. But word count is probably not a factor that's biologically influenced to any real degree, because word count would depend on a whole host of non-biological factors, like your language (Spanish speakers probably have a much higher word count than English speakers on average), your time period (I doubt women had a higher word count in, say, the Victorian Era, when silence was not only golden but could be a good chunk of whether or not you got a husband), and what is or is not socially acceptable to say at that time. I babble sometimes. Does that mean I've got a higher count of this protein then? Nope, it means I'm in a situation where my specific reaction, taught by society, is to babble.

If you think word count is biologically influenced, that's fine, but a study from a culture that expects to find exactly this result sounds a bit suspicious to me.


All of the problems you mention are actually relatively easy to account for with cross-cultural statistical correction methods. And I repeat again: the point is not whether or not there is an actual difference in word count, per se, so much as it is the point that it is not valid to dismiss out of hand evidence that would support the idea coming from the natural sciences just because you presume that there can be no biological influences on that function. The universe does not care about what we think about it. Our opinions in the end are meaningless unless supported by evidence.
 
2013-02-21 11:03:41 AM

Gawdzila: Perhaps in time we will develop the biotechnology to analyze those complex neural networks in our heads in a more deterministic and precise way, but until then things like psychology will have to serve as crude exploratory tools.


The time has already come.  fMRI, to name one example.  Though I don't necessarily agree with everything they say, V.S.  Ramachandran and Steven Pinker (just to name two offhand) have written a number of books between them that illustrate how in recent years technology has gone very far towards making "soft science" a lot less "soft."

One that I'm particularly interested in, and which admittedly has been a bit exaggerated and oversimplified when presented to the general public, uses measurements of activity in the amygdala to cast light on how fear and hate work.
 
2013-02-21 11:06:01 AM

Darke: Seriously though, my brother's wife is the nagging type and I just want to take her into a room and let her know she's doing our gender a disservice by acting like a whiny, needy two-year-old that craves attention at all times.

imgs.xkcd.com

How It Works.
 
2013-02-21 11:06:41 AM

LanceDearnis: Think I figured this one out.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 410x211]


*shakes tiny fist of rage*
 
2013-02-21 11:13:07 AM

KiltedBastich: PsiChick: ...I think you're misunderstanding my fundamental point. Biological differences exist and have effects on humans, yes. As you noted, brain damage can in fact impair language functions, the human mind is hardwired to pick up language, all those things. But word count is probably not a factor that's biologically influenced to any real degree, because word count would depend on a whole host of non-biological factors, like your language (Spanish speakers probably have a much higher word count than English speakers on average), your time period (I doubt women had a higher word count in, say, the Victorian Era, when silence was not only golden but could be a good chunk of whether or not you got a husband), and what is or is not socially acceptable to say at that time. I babble sometimes. Does that mean I've got a higher count of this protein then? Nope, it means I'm in a situation where my specific reaction, taught by society, is to babble.

If you think word count is biologically influenced, that's fine, but a study from a culture that expects to find exactly this result sounds a bit suspicious to me.

All of the problems you mention are actually relatively easy to account for with cross-cultural statistical correction methods. And I repeat again: the point is not whether or not there is an actual difference in word count, per se, so much as it is the point that it is not valid to dismiss out of hand evidence that would support the idea coming from the natural sciences just because you presume that there can be no biological influences on that function. The universe does not care about what we think about it. Our opinions in the end are meaningless unless supported by evidence.


Like the evidence anthropologists have already uncovered?
 
2013-02-21 11:43:38 AM

PsiChick: Like the evidence anthropologists have already uncovered?


Which is limited to social situations only, and deliberately does not consider biological variation, and so has no bearing at all on the validity of a test of biological effects on social actions? You mean that information? That would be a non sequitor fallacy. Assuming there is no biological variation because you can't test for it, and ascribing all variation found to culture as a result, does not actually mean that there is no biological variation. It means you have a huge farking hole in your assumed premises.

Let me say it again. I have a degree in sociology. I have taken a large number of anthropology classes. The two disciplines are extremely closely linked, and many universities combine the departments. I know social science methodology. I know the kind of assumptions they make because of the limits of the methodology. So when I tell you that I am not happy with the way social scientists routinely dismiss the possibility of significant variation in social effects due to biological variation a priori as part of the assumptions of the discipline, I am speaking as someone who is actually trained as a social scientist, not as an outsider with only a lay understanding of the topic.
 
2013-02-21 12:05:23 PM

big pig peaches: Me (standing by the kitchen sink, sponge in hand, dishwasher open: As soon as I finish washing my balls, I'll get to it.


Great... Now I have to explain why I'm laughing my butt off and spewing Mountain Dew over all 4 monitors in front of me.  I really need to say that next time my wife does that...
 
2013-02-21 12:58:15 PM

KiltedBastich: You fail at reading comprehension.


Ok, link me to some valid studies that other species attempt to rationally debate.

/I'd love you to smack me down on this
//But I don't expect you will
 
2013-02-21 01:04:51 PM

KiltedBastich: PsiChick: Like the evidence anthropologists have already uncovered?

Which is limited to social situations only, and deliberately does not consider biological variation, and so has no bearing at all on the validity of a test of biological effects on social actions? You mean that information? That would be a non sequitor fallacy. Assuming there is no biological variation because you can't test for it, and ascribing all variation found to culture as a result, does not actually mean that there is no biological variation. It means you have a huge farking hole in your assumed premises.

Let me say it again. I have a degree in sociology. I have taken a large number of anthropology classes. The two disciplines are extremely closely linked, and many universities combine the departments. I know social science methodology. I know the kind of assumptions they make because of the limits of the methodology. So when I tell you that I am not happy with the way social scientists routinely dismiss the possibility of significant variation in social effects due to biological variation a priori as part of the assumptions of the discipline, I am speaking as someone who is actually trained as a social scientist, not as an outsider with only a lay understanding of the topic.


Didn't I just LMGTFY someone to the huge amounts of evidence showing poverty, which is  not genetic, is often a factor in word count for children? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. So yes, there are times when anthropology and other social sciences have issues, but TFA isn't actually one of those times.
 
2013-02-21 01:19:51 PM

Carousel Beast: Ok, link me to some valid studies that other species attempt to rationally debate.

/I'd love you to smack me down on this
//But I don't expect you will


Rational debate is a complex expression of language use and conflict resolution. Both of those behaviours have been demonstrated extensively in other species. It is not a discrete psychological function unto itself.

Tell me, are you still unclear on what a difference in degree is, vs. a difference in kind? Or maybe you are unclear on why current psychological theory holds that rational debate is not a base cognitive function, but rather is an constructed expression that involves the use of several different underlying cognitive processes? Or perhaps you are unaware that humans are nowhere near as rational as we tend to think we are, and that we are subject to many biases in our cognition that derive from evolved adaptive mechanisms that promote survival rather than truth-seeking, biases we share with other animals?

Your question tells me you really don't understand what "rational debate" actually consists of, from a psychological perspective, so I am trying to figure out the source of your confusion.
 
2013-02-21 01:31:59 PM

PsiChick: Didn't I just LMGTFY someone to the huge amounts of evidence showing poverty, which is not genetic, is often a factor in word count for children? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. So yes, there are times when anthropology and other social sciences have issues, but TFA isn't actually one of those times.


/facepalm

How many times do I have to say this? Nature and nurture are not an either-or choice. BOTH are in play in every single human being. Demonstrating that there are cultural influences on word count says NOTHING AT ALL about whether or not there are biological influences on word count. All it tells you is that there are cultural influences. Unless you can show that statistically absolutely all of the variation in word count is completely explained by poverty and other social forces, with no other intervening variables whatsoever, then you cannot claim there is no biological influence. You cannot claim anything at all about the biological influences because your social science methodology is not designed to investigate them.

And yet here you are again implying that because there is a cultural explanation, there is no validity to biological explanations. This is why what you are doing is making a non sequitor argument. Whether or not you demonstrate that social and cultural influences affect a pattern of behaviour, it does not follow that there cannot be variation due to biological influences, because social and biological influences are not mutually exclusive and in fact interact constantly.

Wrangling over whether there is or is not social or biological influences is a red herring argument that misses the entire point. Both nature and nurture are in play essentially at all times and the social scientists and natural scientists should be trying to work together to explore and map their interaction, not getting into farktarded turf wars that waste time, money and manpower that could be better spent actually doing science.