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(Popular Mechanics)   The final world on the whole Tesla vs New York Times comes from Popular Mechanics. In a nutshell: a pox on both of them (link fixed)   (popularmechanics.com) divider line 182
    More: Followup, Model S, actual malice  
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14591 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 12:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 01:28:56 PM

ha-ha-guy: I'd imagine Tesla has the same problem a lot of other manufacturers have, the battery supplier can provide you with some batteries for prototypes that are defect free.  The day you order in bulk, the defect rate goes through the roof.  We saw it, order enough for 10 test mules?  No problem.  Want 100?  Suddenly the lead time increases by a significant amount.  Want a test fleet?  Welcome to defect central and the occasional exploding battery.  These defects might explain while some of the issues occurred.   I'm sure Tesla has prototypes that can back up those claims, but those may be the ones made back when Tesla was buying smaller batches of batteries and not stressing their supplier's abilities.


Tesla uses industry standard unprotected 18650 (18mm x 65mm cylindrical) size battery cells. Something like 7000 of them per Model S. Individual cells are delivered to Tesla and they assemble them into a proprietary battery pack that includes a lot of sophisticated features for battery monitoring, charging, conditioning and cooling (the pack is also the frame of the vehicle). Each cell is tested during the automated assembly process.

Tesla's trick is to have used an industry standard battery that can be supplied by about a dozen different companies and is kept in constant series production. The pack design is also tolerant of failed cells, so a number of the 7000 cells can fail without any adverse effects on the Model S's performance.

It was a quite brilliant decision on the part of Tesla to do that; all the other EV makers have gotten creamed by trying to use bigger, proprietary cells.
 
2013-02-20 01:30:31 PM

Gosling: Oh my God! It's the final world!

THE FINAL WORLD!

THE CELESTIAL WALLS ARE CLOSING IN

DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED


Damn it. I wanted to be the grammar nazi.

/tiny fist, ect.
 
2013-02-20 01:30:43 PM
John Broder is a poorly disguised stooge for big oil.  Margaret Sullivan has no choice but to protect him because she is aware of how deep the rabbit hole goes at the NYT and can't afford to have the rug yanked out from under their pay-to-play "journalism".

I have no idea what Steve Rousseau from Popular Mechanics has to do with this other than trying to cash in on the high profile nature of the subject matter.  His "controversial" conclusion is "There's no clear winner."
 
2013-02-20 01:32:03 PM

UseUrHeadFred: His "controversial" conclusion is "There's no clear winner."


Because there was a clear loser, and they'd be glad to just call it a draw instead.
 
2013-02-20 01:32:29 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Guys, we can't talk about this anymore. They had the final word.


World.
 
2013-02-20 01:32:46 PM

Carth: Popcorn Johnny: The Tesla is a great car as long as you do this, this, this and this, but don't do that, that, that and that.

Isn't that the case with all cars? We've just had a 100 years to get used to and adapt to the thats of gas powered engines.

/you mean I have to add oil AND gas to this thing?


When you have a limited recharging network it is more a problem than "Well I hit the pedal to pass some semis and now I'm going to pull in to this service plaza instead of the next one for gas."  Plus a super charge stop is still designed to take at least 30 minutes to get 150 miles of range (http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger ).

Your average sedan should get at least 300 miles out of a tank of gas, which takes all of ten minutes to pump.  Plus 300 miles represents more than 4 hours of 70 mph travel, so by the time you're on E, you're likely ready to get out of the car.

It would take you about 4 hours and 15 minutes to travel 300 miles on the interstate with a gas powered car, assuming you could keep the cruise on 70.  The Tesla meanwhile had issues when the reporter went above 55 mph.  So if we assume the Tesla needs to keep it under 60, it takes the Tesla at least 5 hours, plus a 30 minute charge to cover the same distance.

This is the core of the issue.  The Tesla is really not a road trip style electric car, but a lot of Tesla's advertising is centered around their sedan as being a fully functional sedan (they talk about it can travel between Boston and NYC on their supercharge site, which is 214+ miles, their slogan is "Go ahead, take a trip", etc).  Turns out it doesn't look like the Tesla sedan actually is as independent as Musk claims it is.

It just seems like a rehash of the Roadster issues, which was the ultimate electric sports car with a range of 200 miles.  It turned out that range went to hell the moment you drove it like a sports car.  I like electric cars and I think they provide a lot of future options, but lying to the consumer is still wrong.
 
2013-02-20 01:32:56 PM

CygnusDarius: The final words are: Mortal Kombat!




Wouldn't that be Finish Him?
 
2013-02-20 01:33:16 PM

ha-ha-guy: hasty ambush: "Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada, the "father of the Prius" who helped put hybrids on the map, said he believes fuel-cell vehicles hold far more promise than battery electric cars.

Hydrogen can offer an energy density up to 8x what batteries can do right now and 3x to 5x that of gasoline, depending on who is promising what.

That said there are still storage and refueling issues with hydrogen.  At least with electric you can just plug into a wall and wait at the very worst.  With hydrogen, some municipalities have hydrogen stations for their fleet vehicles, but overall it is rare.



ZOMG!!! people will be riding on top of hydrogen BOMBS!!!
 
2013-02-20 01:33:48 PM

Carth: This whole thing has shown has scared some journalists are of facts and data and how quickly they will change their story when presented with them after their article is published.


Am I having a stroke or are you? Something's not right.
 
2013-02-20 01:34:25 PM
DRTFA, but this is what I'm guessing it says:

NY Times writer decides to write an article on the Tesla, arranges a road trip. Tesla tells him that he has to do 15 (or so) things to make the car work right. Writer agrees, doesn't do the 15 things, then writes an article slamming Tesla, while conveniently omitting that he didn't do the 15 things. In other words, he ignored most of the advice, and drove it like a regular person would drive it. Car dies.

Writer is an idiot for not following directions.

Tesla team are idiots for trying to pass off new technology as mainstream.

Did I miss anything?
 
2013-02-20 01:38:01 PM

DeusMeh: ha-ha-guy: hasty ambush: "Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada, the "father of the Prius" who helped put hybrids on the map, said he believes fuel-cell vehicles hold far more promise than battery electric cars.

Hydrogen can offer an energy density up to 8x what batteries can do right now and 3x to 5x that of gasoline, depending on who is promising what.

That said there are still storage and refueling issues with hydrogen.  At least with electric you can just plug into a wall and wait at the very worst.  With hydrogen, some municipalities have hydrogen stations for their fleet vehicles, but overall it is rare.


ZOMG!!! people will be riding on top of hydrogen BOMBS!!!


Big ones, in buses.  Soon.  GM has been doing well selling hybrid buses to transit authorities.  The belief is they'll see the cost savings.  In turn that means when we push hydrogen buses that offer even more savings (currently being tested in some areas) in the next generation, the transit authorities won't freak out at the up front cost of setting up hydrogen fueling depots, etc.
 
2013-02-20 01:38:29 PM

Gosling: Oh my God! It's the final world!

THE FINAL WORLD!

THE CELESTIAL WALLS ARE CLOSING IN

DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED


Go then, there are other worlds than these.
 
2013-02-20 01:38:54 PM

SkunkWerks: Primitive Screwhead: How about comfortably numb?

You are receding.  A distant ship.  Smoke on the horizon.


You are only coming through in waves. Your lips move, but I can't hear what you're saying.
 
2013-02-20 01:38:59 PM

Theaetetus: Journalists circling the wagons?


Sullivan, sure. She works for the same newspaper as the original reporter, so you kind of had to see that coming (sadly). Popular Mechanics though I think is doing the whole "false middle" thing (I'm sure there's a better phrase to describe it) where we think we're being fair by picking a position in between the two sides, even if those two sides aren't actually equal.

I mean, the data talks and while I could quibble about the driving around the parking lot thing (sounds like he was looking for a spot or the charger which is perfectly normal behavior) the rest of the data paints a VERY different picture from the reporter's article. I do think the author of the original article intended to decieve.
 
2013-02-20 01:41:01 PM

ha-ha-guy: Big ones, in buses.


Last I checked, the essential component of hydrogen powered buses is that the fuel (i.e. hydrogen) is locked up in a non-volatile form, and then released slowly over time as the vehicle needs it.

To do it any other way would literally be "riding atop a bomb".  It won't happen.

I'm no fun.  I know.
 
2013-02-20 01:41:56 PM

oh_please: DRTFA, but this is what I'm guessing it says:

NY Times writer decides to write an article on the Tesla, arranges a road trip. Tesla tells him that he has to do 15 (or so) things to make the car work right. Writer agrees, doesn't do the 15 things, then writes an article slamming Tesla, while conveniently omitting that he didn't do the 15 things. In other words, he ignored most of the advice, and drove it like a regular person would drive it. Car dies.

Writer is an idiot for not following directions.

Tesla team are idiots for trying to pass off new technology as mainstream.

Did I miss anything?


You missed the part where Tesla hired a Colombian hit squad to take the reporter out. Too bad too. That was the best part. The best part of the trip.
 
2013-02-20 01:42:09 PM
As of right now, Popular Mechanics doesn't even have "Tesla" spelled correctly in its own header. Apparently they're waiting until the flying car comes out to go buy a spellcheck app
 
2013-02-20 01:42:11 PM

ha-ha-guy: Carth: Popcorn Johnny: The Tesla is a great car as long as you do this, this, this and this, but don't do that, that, that and that.

Isn't that the case with all cars? We've just had a 100 years to get used to and adapt to the thats of gas powered engines.

/you mean I have to add oil AND gas to this thing?

When you have a limited recharging network it is more a problem than "Well I hit the pedal to pass some semis and now I'm going to pull in to this service plaza instead of the next one for gas."  Plus a super charge stop is still designed to take at least 30 minutes to get 150 miles of range (http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger ).

Your average sedan should get at least 300 miles out of a tank of gas, which takes all of ten minutes to pump.  Plus 300 miles represents more than 4 hours of 70 mph travel, so by the time you're on E, you're likely ready to get out of the car.

It would take you about 4 hours and 15 minutes to travel 300 miles on the interstate with a gas powered car, assuming you could keep the cruise on 70.  The Tesla meanwhile had issues when the reporter went above 55 mph.  So if we assume the Tesla needs to keep it under 60, it takes the Tesla at least 5 hours, plus a 30 minute charge to cover the same distance.

This is the core of the issue.  The Tesla is really not a road trip style electric car, but a lot of Tesla's advertising is centered around their sedan as being a fully functional sedan (they talk about it can travel between Boston and NYC on their supercharge site, which is 214+ miles, their slogan is "Go ahead, take a trip", etc).  Turns out it doesn't look like the Tesla sedan actually is as independent as Musk claims it is.

It just seems like a rehash of the Roadster issues, which was the ultimate electric sports car with a range of 200 miles.  It turned out that range went to hell the moment you drove it like a sports car.  I like electric cars and I think they provide a lot of future options, but lying to the consumer is sti ...


I agree. I think EVs are great for daily commuters  who will never have to go out of their way to refuel their car again. Plug in at night when you're home and say goodbye to weekly stops at the gas station. Since the Tesla is an $80k+ car it isn't a big issue since people spending that much normally have a second vehicle they can use for occasional road trips but if EVs are going to take over they will need to sort it out.
 
2013-02-20 01:43:43 PM

firefly212: here to help: If conservatives are so gung ho about encouraging business why do they crap all over emerging tech that would create new business opportunities?

Because the only businesses they care about encouraging aren't businesses at all, they're just rich people who claim to be a business because they have an army of housekeepers and gardeners to tend to their fiefdom.


I know. I was being obtuse to see if anyone got riled up. Also you forgot "stickin' it to the filthy librul hippies".

This is all stupid anyway.  Who cares if these electric cars can't pull off 300 mile trips? They're perfect in urban settings for people who are only commuting to work and doing errands. If all those people used these cars we'd have a huge reduction in pollution and fossil fuel consumption. Then for long trips rent a vehicle if you have to. Perhaps there should be some kind of tax break for two or three car rentals a year for people owning electrics. That way it would remove some of the concerns surrounding needing a gas powered vehicle for long distances.

People out in the boondocks need gas powered vehicles and that's fine but for them to kick and scream yelp about other people owning them is very very stupid. Same with lefties who don't understand that electrics just don't cut it out in the middle of nowhere. If you break down in the middle of a populated area help is close. Out in the middle of nowhere it can be a serious problem.

But everyone's gotta stroke their rage boners. Losers.
 
2013-02-20 01:44:29 PM
i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-02-20 01:45:21 PM

ha-ha-guy: Your average sedan should get at least 300 miles out of a tank of gas, which takes all of ten minutes to pump.


Ten minutes? What do you drive, an APC? (^_~)
 
2013-02-20 01:45:43 PM

SkunkWerks: ha-ha-guy: Big ones, in buses.

Last I checked, the essential component of hydrogen powered buses is that the fuel (i.e. hydrogen) is locked up in a non-volatile form, and then released slowly over time as the vehicle needs it.

To do it any other way would literally be "riding atop a bomb".  It won't happen.

I'm no fun.  I know.


It will scare the piss out of people who don't know what a reformed methanol fuel cell is or anything like that.  To most people it is just going to be a big hydrogen bomb, as opposed to hydrogen rich methanol or the like.
 
2013-02-20 01:48:21 PM

jedikinkoid: ha-ha-guy: Your average sedan should get at least 300 miles out of a tank of gas, which takes all of ten minutes to pump.

Ten minutes? What do you drive, an APC? (^_~)


I was being generous and assuming you had to wait a moment for a pump, dick around the world's slowest credit card, reader, etc.  Most gas stations average been 5 to 10 gpm, you should be fueled up within 4 minutes.
 
2013-02-20 01:49:03 PM

MikeBoomshadow: As of right now, Popular Mechanics doesn't even have "Tesla" spelled correctly in its own header. Apparently they're waiting until the flying car comes out to go buy a spellcheck app


To be fair, the authors name is Ben Wojdyla, so spelling probably confuses the hell out of him.
 
2013-02-20 01:49:35 PM

ha-ha-guy: To most people it is just going to be a big hydrogen bomb, as opposed to hydrogen rich methanol or the like.


Maybe we can somehow convince them it's powered by this:

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-20 01:49:47 PM

Marcus Aurelius: MikeBoomshadow: As of right now, Popular Mechanics doesn't even have "Tesla" spelled correctly in its own header. Apparently they're waiting until the flying car comes out to go buy a spellcheck app

To be fair, the authors name is Ben Wojdyla, so spelling probably confuses the hell out of him.


Wait, that's the author from the sidebar article.

/never mind
 
2013-02-20 01:51:28 PM
ibdp.huluim.com
"A pox on both your houses!"

/obscure?
 
2013-02-20 01:54:24 PM

SkunkWerks: ha-ha-guy: Big ones, in buses.

Last I checked, the essential component of hydrogen powered buses is that the fuel (i.e. hydrogen) is locked up in a non-volatile form, and then released slowly over time as the vehicle needs it.

To do it any other way would literally be "riding atop a bomb".  It won't happen.

I'm no fun.  I know.


take a look at a side by side video of hydrogen fuel tank ignitions compared to the same circumstances with regular gasoline...

and then tell us which is more akin to an actual explosion
 
2013-02-20 01:55:04 PM

ha-ha-guy: This is the core of the issue.  The Tesla is really not a road trip style electric car, but a lot of Tesla's advertising is centered around their sedan as being a fully functional sedan (they talk about it can travel between Boston and NYC on their supercharge site, which is 214+ miles, their slogan is "Go ahead, take a trip", etc).  Turns out it doesn't look like the Tesla sedan actually is as independent as Musk claims it is.




Ah, but hipster-love of the name "Tesla" obviously trumps all that.
 
2013-02-20 01:56:04 PM
Fark: Where batteries are emerging technology.
 
2013-02-20 01:58:36 PM

DeusMeh: more akin to an actual explosion


Both.  Next question?
 
2013-02-20 01:59:16 PM

MythDragon: "A pox on both your houses!"

/obscure?


I saw that in the theaters, still not sure why.
 
2013-02-20 01:59:50 PM

The Muthaship: Fark: Where batteries are emerging technology.


Oddly enough, it tops the list of "least advanced technologies" over the last century.  Or in other words, it hasn't changed very much since it's inception.
 
2013-02-20 02:00:28 PM
I look forward to the time (in the next 12 months or so) when interstate 5 gets its full implementation of level III (fast) chargers. I'll do a *one day* road-trip from Seattle to San Francisco (800 miles) and I'm sure I'll keep hearing from farkers that it's impossible for an affordable electric car to be used for road trips.

I'm sure the goal posts will be moved to say "Well, electric cars can't tow a boat on the way to the Yukon, so they're worthless for anything but 2% of drivers."
 
2013-02-20 02:01:24 PM

BuckTurgidson: [i1.ytimg.com image 320x180]


Today, the role of  Toshiru Mifune's Letter Opener shall be played by  BuckTurgidson.  Lets see if anyone notices.
 
2013-02-20 02:01:46 PM

Carth: Since the Tesla is an $80k+ car it isn't a big issue since people spending that much normally have a second vehicle they can use for occasional road trips but if EVs are going to take over they will need to sort it out.


The problem Tesla has with that statement is that then they're just the expensive version of a Nissan Leaf or the like.  Not some super new car of the future that will change how the auto industry does business.  Some of it is marketing and some of it is how Musk feels this need to sell himself as the kind of cutting edge ventures.

SpaceX is cool, but Tesla has always been a bit biatchy how the rest of the rest of the industry sees them as kids playing around with battery tech.  Also I think they're a bit unhappy on how the Tesla sedan is struggling with reviewing, whereas the RAV4 EV (where Toyota took Tesla technology and refined it) is getting positive reviews and performing as advertising.

/the big issue I see with the Model S is the fact that the battery pack plays a role in the stability and integrity of the car, which means if later you switch it to a hydrogen pack of some sort, that opens the door to issues
//whereas the Volt, Cmax, RAV4EV, etc are all designed so you can stick any power source in the area where the batteries are, they just happen to use batteries for now
/Tesla is very much invested and married to batteries which could benefit them or kill them in a generation or two
 
2013-02-20 02:01:50 PM

ha-ha-guy: jedikinkoid: ha-ha-guy: Your average sedan should get at least 300 miles out of a tank of gas, which takes all of ten minutes to pump.

Ten minutes? What do you drive, an APC? (^_~)

I was being generous and assuming you had to wait a moment for a pump, dick around the world's slowest credit card, reader, etc.  Most gas stations average been 5 to 10 gpm, you should be fueled up within 4 minutes.


Fair enough. (^_^) I actually figured you were accounting for the time it takes to pull off the highway, drive around on surface streets, and get back on the highway... I just couldn't resist taking a poke at the notion of a normal car's gas tank that takes ten minutes to fill up. (Though with some of the ginormous compensation-mobiles there are out there, I guess it's plausible.)
 
2013-02-20 02:02:10 PM
Who the fark still reads Popular Mechanics (or Science) anymore?

Unless you want to learn about the latest UFO conspiracies
 
2013-02-20 02:02:36 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: CygnusDarius: The final words are: Mortal Kombat!

Wouldn't that be Finish Him?



Wouldn't that be Kano (or whomever) Wins! ?
 
2013-02-20 02:02:38 PM

The Muthaship: Fark: Where batteries are emerging technology.


They are in this example. Americans are used to a range of 300+ miles, and being able to refuel on a whim. Tesla is not able to do that yet.
 
2013-02-20 02:03:21 PM

MythDragon: The Stealth Hippopotamus: CygnusDarius: The final words are: Mortal Kombat!

Wouldn't that be Finish Him?


Wouldn't that be Kano (or whomever) Wins! ?


No, it would be  Fatality.
 
2013-02-20 02:03:56 PM

Popcorn Johnny: MythDragon: "A pox on both your houses!"

/obscure?

I saw that in the theaters, still not sure why.


were you trying to get into a girl's pants? That would be the only logical explanation.
 
2013-02-20 02:06:37 PM

reductive: Fascinating how nobody but Broder talks about the part where Broder spoke directly with managers and engineers half a dozen times over two days.


Fascinating how he doesn't have recordings or even direct quotes from them. There's a huge difference between "Charge it for an hour exactly, and then head out on a 60 mile trip with only 30 miles of charge" and "It should be okay if you charge it for an hour or so to get the charge you need". His articles are so vaguely worded that he could have been told either.
 
2013-02-20 02:08:49 PM

ha-ha-guy: SpaceX is cool, but Tesla has always been a bit biatchy how the rest of the rest of the industry sees them as kids playing around with battery tech. Also I think they're a bit unhappy on how the Tesla sedan is struggling with reviewing, whereas the RAV4 EV (where Toyota took Tesla technology and refined it) is getting positive reviews and performing as advertising.


Actually, Toyota just licensed Tesla's battery and drivetrain technology and drops it in, completely stock from the Tesla factory. No refining involved.
 
2013-02-20 02:08:54 PM

reductive: Seems kind of important to me -- our people told you to proceed and that the battery would magically find its power (erm, "recondition"), but you were maliciously bombing the test because you should have known they were dead wrong?


They weren't "dead wrong' The car still went 50+ miles after showing 32 miles of charge.

And warming up a battery causes the chemical reactions in it to happen faster, thus does indeed cause it to provide more power- no "magic" needed.
 
2013-02-20 02:10:43 PM

MythDragon: were you trying to get into a girl's pants? That would be the only logical explanation.


I went alone.
 
2013-02-20 02:12:37 PM

TanSau: Who the fark still reads Popular Mechanics (or Science) anymore?


People who are waiting for a haircut at the "barber" (not at a "hair salon"), but aren't interested in Field and Stream (even to just flip to the end and read the Pat McManus column) and all the Sports Illustrateds are being read, even the Swimsuit Issue with the sticky cover and missing pages.
 
2013-02-20 02:15:36 PM

MrSteve007: ha-ha-guy: SpaceX is cool, but Tesla has always been a bit biatchy how the rest of the rest of the industry sees them as kids playing around with battery tech. Also I think they're a bit unhappy on how the Tesla sedan is struggling with reviewing, whereas the RAV4 EV (where Toyota took Tesla technology and refined it) is getting positive reviews and performing as advertising.

Actually, Toyota just licensed Tesla's battery and drivetrain technology and drops it in, completely stock from the Tesla factory. No refining involved.


The refinements come in the form of the the management software used by Toyota.  The Rav4 has dual mode features based on lessons Toyota learned from their first generation one (the one Chevron sued over) and the Prius family of vehicles.

Note for example how the RAV4EV motor runs at 115 kW, whereas the Roadster offers three phases, none of which match the RAV4EV.  Tuning and management software can make a huge difference.
 
2013-02-20 02:19:43 PM

ha-ha-guy: When you have a limited recharging network it is more a problem than "Well I hit the pedal to pass some semis and now I'm going to pull in to this service plaza instead of the next one for gas." Plus a super charge stop is still designed to take at least 30 minutes to get 150 miles of range (http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger ).

Your average sedan should get at least 300 miles out of a tank of gas, which takes all of ten minutes to pump. Plus 300 miles represents more than 4 hours of 70 mph travel, so by the time you're on E, you're likely ready to get out of the car.

It would take you about 4 hours and 15 minutes to travel 300 miles on the interstate with a gas powered car, assuming you could keep the cruise on 70. The Tesla meanwhile had issues when the reporter went above 55 mph. So if we assume the Tesla needs to keep it under 60, it takes the Tesla at least 5 hours, plus a 30 minute charge to cover the same distance.

This is the core of the issue. The Tesla is really not a road trip style electric car, but a lot of Tesla's advertising is centered around their sedan as being a fully functional sedan (they talk about it can travel between Boston and NYC on their supercharge site, which is 214+ miles, their slogan is "Go ahead, take a trip", etc). Turns out it doesn't look like the Tesla sedan actually is as independent as Musk claims it is.

It just seems like a rehash of the Roadster issues, which was the ultimate electric sports car with a range of 200 miles. It turned out that range went to hell the moment you drove it like a sports car. I like electric cars and I think they provide a lot of future options, but lying to the consumer is still wrong


All of this is solved with just a few more charging stations. I don't have an electric car, but I'd like to have one. Living five minutes from downtown seattle if I sit here and think for a while it seems to me that a simple 100 mile range would take care of me literally 99% of the time. This year for example I've driven out of the city over fifty miles exactly once. Which makes me think it might be worth it to skip the weekly trip to the gas station ten or twelve times, then spring for a rental car if I want to take a worry free road trip over a long distance.
 
2013-02-20 02:22:09 PM

orbister: Theaetetus: Broder: The Model S sucks! It ran out of electricity!
Tesla: That's because you drove too fast, took long detours, and drove in circles in a parking lot. Here's the data.

... showing that he went slightly faster than he claimed to have set the cruise control, took a short detour through Manhattan, which they knew about in advance and which their customer support person recommended, and drove once round a parking place to get to the supercharger point.


Mr. "Going faster wouldn't affect the mileage", meet Mr. "It's not normal driving, and the track mileage is a lot less."

ha-ha-guy: Part of it makes me think Musk is selling snake oil.  For example the Roadster's 200 mile claim was for normal driving, despite Tesla doing a lot to sell the car as a track car (where it only gets 50 to 60 miles).  It makes me wonder what assumptions Tesla is making regarding the sedan's driving conditions and how disingenuous they might be.

 
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