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(Popular Mechanics)   The final world on the whole Tesla vs New York Times comes from Popular Mechanics. In a nutshell: a pox on both of them (link fixed)   (popularmechanics.com) divider line 182
    More: Followup, Model S, actual malice  
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14588 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 12:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 11:51:47 AM
Broder: The Model S sucks! It ran out of electricity!
Tesla: That's because you drove too fast, took long detours, and drove in circles in a parking lot. Here's the data.
Broder: You didn't share that data with me when I wrote the article, so therefore it doesn't count.
Sullivan: That sounds reasonable. He was clearly writing in good faith. Also, I'm not going to respond to any of the specific complaints because I don't think that's useful.
Popular Mechanics: That sounds reasonable. Sullivan was clearly writing in good faith. Both sides are bad: Broder for being sloppy, and Tesla for claiming he did it intentionally rather than just being lazy, which is equally bad. Also, I'm not going to respond to any of the specific complaints because I don't think that's useful.

Journalists circling the wagons?
 
2013-02-20 12:02:54 PM
plato.stanford.edu
 
2013-02-20 12:05:44 PM
"Girls...Girls. You're BOTH ugly."
 
2013-02-20 12:23:55 PM
Oh my God! It's the final world!

THE FINAL WORLD!

THE CELESTIAL WALLS ARE CLOSING IN

DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED
 
2013-02-20 12:40:25 PM

Theaetetus: Journalists circling the wagons?


I don't see why Popular Mechanics wouldn't throw the New York Times under the bus? Popular Mechanics should be the publication that you turn to for stuff like this not the New York Times. If I was publishing PM you can bet I would mention that a few times in the article.
 
2013-02-20 12:51:14 PM
There's no clear "winner" in this debacle. Broder might have been sloppy in his reporting

wow, that's generous instead of saying "lying" they call it sloppy reporting like it wasn't intentional. popular mechanics is looks like they apologizing here, sad.
 
2013-02-20 12:51:56 PM
and holy shiat did i fark up the last part of that sentence or what...
 
2013-02-20 12:52:38 PM
FTA: ...it isn't as comfortably mindless as a road trip in an average car.

Was anyone honestly disputing this?

If you want a mindless road-trip, don't drive an experimental car, maybe?
 
2013-02-20 12:54:22 PM
Guys, we can't talk about this anymore. They had the final word.
 
2013-02-20 12:55:09 PM
This whole thing has shown has scared some journalists are of facts and data and how quickly they will change their story when presented with them after their article is published.
 
2013-02-20 12:55:15 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Guys, we can't talk about this anymore. They had the final word.


You can't tell me what I can't do.  I'm out cold.
 
2013-02-20 12:55:40 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Guys, we can't talk about this anymore. They had the final word

WORLD.
 
2013-02-20 12:56:32 PM

SkunkWerks: FTA: ...it isn't as comfortably mindless as a road trip in an average car.

Was anyone honestly disputing this?

If you want a mindless road-trip, don't drive an experimental car, maybe?


Maybe it shows my income level, but I don't think I'd ever have a mindless road trip in a $100k car. I've driven a Rolls Royce Phantom Drophead and a couple of supercharged Range Rovers that were worth over $100k and neither of them were driven "comfortably mindless".
 
2013-02-20 12:56:53 PM
One of the commenters in the article nailed it: "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity."

I would be a little more specific, though: "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity and confirmation bias." I don't think he intentionally sabotaged the test, but I do think he found what he was looking for. Humans are funny that way... we can find just about anything (reasons to be offended, rationalizations, affirmations, etc) when we look hard enough.
 
2013-02-20 12:57:22 PM
Is this the FINAL final word?
 
2013-02-20 12:57:29 PM

Theaetetus: Broder: The Model S sucks! It ran out of electricity!
Tesla: That's because you drove too fast, took long detours, and drove in circles in a parking lot. Here's the data.


... showing that he went slightly faster than he claimed to have set the cruise control, took a short detour through Manhattan, which they knew about in advance and which their customer support person recommended, and drove once round a parking place to get to the supercharger point.
 
2013-02-20 12:58:24 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Theaetetus: Journalists circling the wagons?

I don't see why Popular Mechanics wouldn't throw the New York Times under the bus? Popular Mechanics should be the publication that you turn to for stuff like this not the New York Times. If I was publishing PM you can bet I would mention that a few times in the article.


If Popular Mechanics is so dependable, what is this "Telsa" car they refer to several times?
 
2013-02-20 12:59:01 PM
The Tesla is a great car as long as you do this, this, this and this, but don't do that, that, that and that.
 
2013-02-20 01:01:20 PM
I think this fight is just starting:
a.tgcdn.net
 
2013-02-20 01:01:26 PM
Pox?  What kind of british word is that?
 
2013-02-20 01:01:44 PM

MadMattressMack: SkunkWerks: FTA: ...it isn't as comfortably mindless as a road trip in an average car.

Was anyone honestly disputing this?

If you want a mindless road-trip, don't drive an experimental car, maybe?

Maybe it shows my income level, but I don't think I'd ever have a mindless road trip in a $100k car. I've driven a Rolls Royce Phantom Drophead and a couple of supercharged Range Rovers that were worth over $100k and neither of them were driven "comfortably mindless".


How about comfortably numb?
 
2013-02-20 01:02:15 PM
So any company can use any name without permission? Or is Tesla's estate allowing this?

/might change last name to Tesla
 
2013-02-20 01:03:09 PM

cowtipn: Is this the FINAL final word?



No, the final world.  There are no more.  Enjoy this one.  We cannot have another.
 
2013-02-20 01:04:56 PM
They are quite sharp looking and would love to have their sports model, but I forget the name, but it reminded me of a Lotus Esprit.  I read an article that said the could get up to 300 miles without a charge, and this was 2 years ago.  I guess they are trying to surpass this MPC (miles per charge?) that limited them a couple years ago.  First nice looking car that runs on batteries IMO.
 
2013-02-20 01:06:01 PM
So the "final word" is to spend five paragraphs summarizing what happened, and then write one paragraph whose thesis is, "There's no clear 'winner' in this debacle."

Thanks, Popular Mechanics!
 
2013-02-20 01:06:24 PM
OMG !  as the owner of an alternative fuel vehicle, you might have to plan your trip more carefully.

Golly, just like a diesel owner used to do, but who cares about that.
 
2013-02-20 01:06:52 PM

Primitive Screwhead: How about comfortably numb?


You are receding.  A distant ship.  Smoke on the horizon.
 
2013-02-20 01:08:34 PM
I'd imagine Tesla has the same problem a lot of other manufacturers have, the battery supplier can provide you with some batteries for prototypes that are defect free.  The day you order in bulk, the defect rate goes through the roof.  We saw it, order enough for 10 test mules?  No problem.  Want 100?  Suddenly the lead time increases by a significant amount.  Want a test fleet?  Welcome to defect central and the occasional exploding battery.  These defects might explain while some of the issues occurred.   I'm sure Tesla has prototypes that can back up those claims, but those may be the ones made back when Tesla was buying smaller batches of batteries and not stressing their supplier's abilities.

The big issue is of course this Tesla is supposed to be a sedan and move more in the direction of transportation appliance.  For the Roadster, a car you buy for fun and its performance, the consumer is more likely to tolerate the car having odd little issues here and there as long as it goes fast and corners well.  If the fact your cruise control and climate settings can make enough of an impact the CEO calls your test fake, you're not in transportation appliance territory yet.  Which is fine, just stop trying to market it as such.

Tesla seems to have the same problem with the Roadster, they had a nasty little spat with Top Gear after Clarkson broke the car after 55 miles.

Tesla has filed libel charges against Top Gear multiple times and lost them all:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/02/tesla-vs-top-gear/

Part of it makes me think Musk is selling snake oil.  For example the Roadster's 200 mile claim was for normal driving, despite Tesla doing a lot to sell the car as a track car (where it only gets 50 to 60 miles).  It makes me wonder what assumptions Tesla is making regarding the sedan's driving conditions and how disingenuous they might be.
 
2013-02-20 01:09:05 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Golly, just like a diesel owner used to do


Recently became a diesel owner...  It's not so bad.  Just need to do a bit more thinking about it.

And of course it wouldn't hurt if we weren't charging ridiculous amounts for it here in the states.  I still make it up in mileage, and possibly wear and tear, but really?  It's a byproduct of refining gasoline.  Leftovers.

Really?
 
2013-02-20 01:09:37 PM
Maybe no one "won", but the Times reporter is clearly a dbag troll.
 
2013-02-20 01:09:51 PM

Master Sphincter: So any company can use any name without permission? Or is Tesla's estate allowing this?

/might change last name to Tesla


The man was described as chaste. I don't think there is an estate.
 
2013-02-20 01:09:54 PM
The final world on the whole Tesla vs New York Times comes from Popular Mechanics. In a nutshell: a pox on both of them

strangetriumph.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-20 01:11:32 PM
In other words, the car works fairly well despite the hit-job in the NY Times, but early adopters of the brand new model that's built on newer technology may experience some issues therefore Both Sides Are Bad.

That's some might fine hemmin' and hawin', Popular Mechanics.
 
2013-02-20 01:12:24 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Theaetetus: Journalists circling the wagons?

I don't see why Popular Mechanics wouldn't throw the New York Times under the bus? Popular Mechanics should be the publication that you turn to for stuff like this not the New York Times. If I was publishing PM you can bet I would mention that a few times in the article.


The NYT is involved because the whole electric car thing is political. With one side determined to make sure that it works and the another equally determined that it won't -relativity be damned.

Meanwhile in Japan:

Are electric cars running out of juice again?
"Recent moves by Japan's two largest automakers suggest that the electric car, after more than 100 years of development and several brief revivals, still is not ready for prime time - and may never be.

In the meantime, the attention of automotive executives in Asia, Europe and North America is beginning to swing toward an unusual but promising new alternate power source: hydrogen."

"Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada, the "father of the Prius" who helped put hybrids on the map, said he believes fuel-cell vehicles hold far more promise than battery electric cars.

"Because of its shortcomings - driving range, cost and recharging time - the electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars," said Uchiyamada. "We need something entirely new."
 
2013-02-20 01:12:44 PM

orbister: Theaetetus: Broder: The Model S sucks! It ran out of electricity!
Tesla: That's because you drove too fast, took long detours, and drove in circles in a parking lot. Here's the data.

... showing that he went slightly faster than he claimed to have set the cruise control


Yeah, it was only between 11 and 27 miles faster. No way that has an effect on a car's efficiency. Good call.
 
2013-02-20 01:12:44 PM
If I have to call a tech support line for advise on how to get somewhere and may have software revisions pushed to the car...the car is a failure
 
2013-02-20 01:13:20 PM
The final words are two:  Range Anxiety.
 
2013-02-20 01:15:20 PM

SkunkWerks: Nutsac_Jim: Golly, just like a diesel owner used to do

Recently became a diesel owner...  It's not so bad.  Just need to do a bit more thinking about it.

And of course it wouldn't hurt if we weren't charging ridiculous amounts for it here in the states.  I still make it up in mileage, and possibly wear and tear, but really?  It's a byproduct of refining gasoline.  Leftovers.

Really?


I think with most people having an iphone or droid, the days of worrying are gone.  Its pretty easy to look at the map of diesel stations and pick one on your route.

I imagine the Tesla comes with that feature built in.
 
2013-02-20 01:18:12 PM

hasty ambush: "Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada, the "father of the Prius" who helped put hybrids on the map, said he believes fuel-cell vehicles hold far more promise than battery electric cars.


Hydrogen can offer an energy density up to 8x what batteries can do right now and 3x to 5x that of gasoline, depending on who is promising what.

That said there are still storage and refueling issues with hydrogen.  At least with electric you can just plug into a wall and wait at the very worst.  With hydrogen, some municipalities have hydrogen stations for their fleet vehicles, but overall it is rare.

Someone is going to have to demonstrate methanol conversion (or something else) on an industrial viable scale and come up with a credible plan for how you're going to be able to refuel the sucker.
 
2013-02-20 01:18:14 PM
The final words are: Mortal Kombat!
 
2013-02-20 01:18:17 PM

Primitive Screwhead: MadMattressMack: SkunkWerks: FTA: ...it isn't as comfortably mindless as a road trip in an average car.

Was anyone honestly disputing this?

If you want a mindless road-trip, don't drive an experimental car, maybe?

Maybe it shows my income level, but I don't think I'd ever have a mindless road trip in a $100k car. I've driven a Rolls Royce Phantom Drophead and a couple of supercharged Range Rovers that were worth over $100k and neither of them were driven "comfortably mindless".

How about comfortably numb?


None of them came equipped with a car bar. :(
 
2013-02-20 01:18:30 PM
If conservatives are so gung ho about encouraging business why do they crap all over emerging tech that would create new business opportunities?
 
2013-02-20 01:19:23 PM

threadjackistan: Master Sphincter: So any company can use any name without permission? Or is Tesla's estate allowing this?

/might change last name to Tesla

The man was described as chaste. I don't think there is an estate.

i.qkme.me
 
2013-02-20 01:19:44 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Its pretty easy to look at the map of diesel stations and pick one on your route.


Or if not that, highways signs usually indicate whether or not a given station carries diesel.

I'd say a fair part of the reason you can't "take a mindless roadtrip" in the car (aside from the fact that it is, after all, an experimental car) is lack of infrastructure.  Gasoline cars have plenty of this to support them.  If there were as many charging stations along the coast for the Tesla, well, there you go.

Incidentally, I know where the charging station in Norwich, CT is.  If I recall correctly a Furniture Store mogul invested in it.
 
2013-02-20 01:20:29 PM
Whatever, Popular Mechanics, where the hell's my flying car?
 
2013-02-20 01:21:26 PM

Popcorn Johnny: The Tesla is a great car as long as you do this, this, this and this, but don't do that, that, that and that.


Isn't that the case with all cars? We've just had a 100 years to get used to and adapt to the thats of gas powered engines.

/you mean I have to add oil AND gas to this thing?
 
2013-02-20 01:21:29 PM
"Decisions he made at a crucial juncture-when he recharged the Model S in Norwich, Conn., a stop forced by the unexpected loss of charge overnight-were certainly instrumental in this saga's high-drama ending," she writes.

Norwich?  If you plan on stopping in Norwich, CT on a trip from Washington DC to Milford, CT, you're going just a little bit out of the way.  Just a little.
 
2013-02-20 01:24:18 PM
I think this means it's like a video game and the final world is the one where Popular Mechanics judges the outcome.
 
2013-02-20 01:25:01 PM
Fascinating how nobody but Broder talks about the part where Broder spoke directly with managers and engineers half a dozen times over two days. If Tesla's own people advised Broder to do what he did, can we really attribute his behavior to stupidity? It's not clear whether Broder is misrepresenting what his contacts at Tesla were telling him, because Musk and the press simply ignore this point.

Seems kind of important to me -- our people told you to proceed and that the battery would magically find its power (erm, "recondition"), but you were maliciously bombing the test because you should have known they were dead wrong? So the issue is with Tesla's customer service, not with their vehicle?
 
2013-02-20 01:27:19 PM

here to help: If conservatives are so gung ho about encouraging business why do they crap all over emerging tech that would create new business opportunities?


Because the only businesses they care about encouraging aren't businesses at all, they're just rich people who claim to be a business because they have an army of housekeepers and gardeners to tend to their fiefdom.
 
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