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(The Spectator UK)   What American hipsters think of Holland: weed, hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: underage runaways, sex trafficking, forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe   (spectator.co.uk) divider line 50
    More: Sad, Runaways, Holland, human trafficking, Europe, forced prostitution, freedoms, street prostitution, libidos  
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16687 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 10:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 09:24:10 AM
10 votes:
Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.
2013-02-20 08:49:59 AM
9 votes:

cman: Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ


I lived in Eindhoven for three years.  Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.
2013-02-20 08:57:25 AM
7 votes:
I'm pretty sure they (hipsters) think that because that's how Holland wants to be viewed by tourists. When foreigners think of New York, they think of Times Square, all the museums/plays, the Statue of Liberty; not the thousands of homeless, millions of rats, murders, traffic jams, etc. that are there every day.
2013-02-20 10:06:26 AM
6 votes:
I'm calling for a moratorium on the word 'hipster', no one uses that  damn thing correctly
2013-02-20 08:59:16 AM
5 votes:
human trafficking happens EVERYWHERE, not just in places with legalized prostitution.
2013-02-20 08:52:35 AM
5 votes:
Sounds sexy.  Actually, when I went there (a BUNCH of times) I never once looked at the girls in the windows and said, "I think I'll have one of her and two of those."  It's about as sexy as buying a piece of meat at Trader Joe's.  While I'll walk around TJ's with a hard-on like a racehorse as often as the next guy, I never partook in the meat market portion of the redlight district.  Not b/c of morality issues, just b/c it wasn't sexy.  And about half the time I was with girls, so why pay for milk.

But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.
2013-02-20 09:05:20 AM
4 votes:
I'm pretty sure you can find sex slaves in America. Underage hookers as well. Not to mention the gun violence. Europe's not much better. And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.

Glass houses, etc.
2013-02-20 08:57:01 AM
4 votes:

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.


It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.
2013-02-20 10:22:17 AM
3 votes:
Every single negative about prostitution pointed out already existed when it was illegal in greater numbers
2013-02-20 10:07:14 AM
3 votes:
There are two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
2013-02-20 11:13:34 AM
2 votes:

InmanRoshi: andersoncouncil42: I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.

Yeah, Ugly American article written by an Ugly American magazine written for an  Ugly American audience who believe a night at On the Border for fajitas and margaritas constitutes experiencing an exotic culture.


No, they're not Ugly Americans (see my post on The Spectatorites and that ilk). They're Ugly Brits ... the genuine article, accept no substitutes. These are the people who invented Ugly Americanism and exported it to America. But with that quibble set aside, you are absolutely bang on the nail head. I'm not sure what a night at On the Border's English equivalent is, but I assume it involves really hot curries or possibly really bad paellas.
2013-02-20 10:21:42 AM
2 votes:
Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
pnsexplosion.com
2013-02-20 10:14:43 AM
2 votes:

Vodka Zombie: Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.


In other words, wonderful place unless you are a typical American.
2013-02-20 12:11:29 PM
1 votes:
Holland is not The Netherlands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc
2013-02-20 12:06:32 PM
1 votes:
I visited Amsterdam a couple years ago with a friend.  Most of the prostitutes in windows appeared to be eastern European or African.  Most of the guards and pimps appeared to be Russian.  My friend noted that it was a huge change from when they were there a decade before, when most of the women were Dutch and the pimps were less visible.

Sounds as if the Dutch authorities simply failed to enforce the laws they had on the books, which resulted in an uptick in tax evasion, undocumented/ineligible workers, assaults and organized crime.  So instead of spending the time and effort to clean up the system, they're going to try and shut the whole thing down.  As if that is going to work.

It might be against EU law, but the first thing I'd do is prohibit any workers who weren't born in the Netherlands.  It would help reduce human trafficking from third world and corrupt nations.  It would also help stop workers using forged identity documentation (easier to check your country's own birth certificates than to verify something from Russia).
2013-02-20 11:54:22 AM
1 votes:

theflatline: The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.


Oh, man. Story time...

I was traveling in Croatia with an Austrian buddy. We spent a few days at the amazing Plitvice Lakes. It's a place of natural beauty, a series of waterfalls feeding bright blue lakes which cascade into one another, surrounded by trails. A photographer's paradise. We decided to take a boat ride across the biggest lake. On the boat was the captain, me, my buddy and about twelve Isrealis. As we began quietly slipping across this unearthly blue lake, an Israeli woman in the group started to yell in Hebrew. Then she stood up and yelled louder. Several men started yelling back at her. Then things escalated. Within a minute, all the Israelis were screaming at each other and at this woman. I had had enough. Neither me nor my buddy speaks Hebrew, but from what we could gather they were arguing about what to eat for lunch.

It was then that my buddy boomed out in clear German to "Sit the fark down and shut the fark up so we can enjoy this damn boat ride." The Israeli woman sat down, and there was quiet. For about one minute. Then it all picked up again. About lunch. In English, I conferred with my buddy. We didn't want to seem like Germans (I'm an American, but appearances and all that) telling Jews what to do, so we should just write off the boat ride as a FAIL and do our best to avoid these people for the rest of the day.

The rest of the day, we could hear their voices and ambled in the opposite direction. What a bunch of jackasses! Granted, I don't view all Israelis like this, and I've seen some truly embarrassing behavior from fellow Americans overseas. But ever since then, the "generalization" section of my brain has a low opinion of Israeli tourists. And Chinese tourists. But not the Dutch.
2013-02-20 11:50:08 AM
1 votes:

doublesecretprobation: human trafficking happens EVERYWHERE, not just in places with legalized prostitution.


MSNBC did a documentary called "Sex Slaves In America". Apparently Texas is pretty bad for this sort of thing. According to the documentary there are scores of "cantinas" that are really whorehouses filled with women & underage girls kidnapped from Mexico & elsewhere and forced into prostitution.

They also exposed brothels in New York, Minneapolis, and other cities. It really is pretty much everywhere.

Most guys looking for a good time with a hooker are oblivious to the fact that it could be some girl abducted or lured to the U.S. with the false promise of a legit job and then enslaved. The guys who do this kind of thing know where the girls are from & threaten to kill their families if they leave or go to authorities. One 16 year old American girl went to her friend's house and her friend turned out to be a prostitute. The prostitute's pimp was posing as her dad, and they abducted the girl, tied her to a grungy bed in an abandoned house and rented her out to a string of men who raped and beat her. Hellish, horrible stuff.   Though she was lucky enough to get away, she can't stand be around any man, even her own dad, without her mom around.

If you haven't seen the MSNBC documentaries, (there are two of them) they're enlightening, but very sad to see what happens to these girls in our own backyard.
2013-02-20 11:21:16 AM
1 votes:

traylor: That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.


I've been on some buses in Europe that would make a high school locker room smell like a rose garden in a Febreze factory
2013-02-20 11:17:45 AM
1 votes:

Where wolf: It's a huge problem in Georgia, specifically the I-75 corridor.


It's a huge problem everywhere in the US. When it isn't the "Asian massage" racket, it's gangs like MS-13 running underage prostitutes and keeping them as slaves because they fear deportation. Our demonization of illegal immigration has an awful lot to do with how these criminals continue their operations. I've often thought a blanket amnesty and green card to anyone who turn's states' evidence on these creeps might help.
2013-02-20 11:16:07 AM
1 votes:

Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.


Armpit is a step up from "netherlands," isn't it?
2013-02-20 11:16:04 AM
1 votes:

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.


I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.
2013-02-20 11:03:38 AM
1 votes:

InmanRoshi: andersoncouncil42: I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.

Yeah, Ugly American article written by an Ugly American magazine written for an  Ugly American audience who believe a night at On the Border for fajitas and margaritas constitutes experiencing an exotic culture.


Except, it's an English author writing for an English magazine. It may have been written for an Ugly American audience, but I doubt it.
2013-02-20 11:02:59 AM
1 votes:
theflatline: 1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.
2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".
3. Spaniards - they think everyone in latin america are inferior creatures but love banging the women there.


Any pack of Brits flying to a cheap Euro destination on RyanAir for a Stag Weekend are by far the worst tourists.    But yeah, the Israeli conscripts  fresh out service with a huge wad of cash in their pockets can be awful   (see Manali)
2013-02-20 11:02:06 AM
1 votes:

H31N0US: I have fallen behind. Which side of the aisle bankrolls The Spectator?


Reactionary Upper Class Tories. Have you ever heard of Auberon Waugh?

For the American equivalent read Cleveland Amory's The Trouble with Nowadays.

I had an acquaintance who cried when he Montreal Massacre occurred (14 dead) at the thought of all the hay the feminists and anti-gun lobby would make of the massacre. He hated Cleveland Amory. For his cat books and pro-wildlife agitprop.

Any hoo, like the neo-cons, the people who write for and read The Spectator are further to the right than The American Spectator. They dream of putting things back the way they should be, which means either the Belle Epoque, the Gilded Age, the Age of Robber Barons, or the Early Middle Ages.

Mind you, some of these people's family fortunes go back to the Middle Ages. Others are jumped up coal merchants, wool merchants, toothpaste mongers, or brewers. Big, old money.

A brief bibliography:

BooksThe Cat and the CurmudgeonThe Best Cat Ever Hometown The Proper Bostonians Who Killed Society? (1960)[13] Cleveland Amory's Compleat Cat The last resorts Animail Newport: There she sits Cat Tales: Classic Stories from Favorite Writers Man Kind? Our Incredible War on Wildlife 1902 Edition of The Sears, Roebuck Catalog The Trouble with Nowadays : A Curmudgeon Strikes Back Ranch of Dreams: A Lifelong Protector of Animals Shares the Story of His Extraordinary Sanctuary Cats, animal rights and making fun of the upper classes he knew so well. What's not to love? But I digress.

Note: Do not confuse Cleveland Amory with Richard Armory. They are both funny on the subject of the classics. That is all.
2013-02-20 10:50:54 AM
1 votes:
Farkers should find news sites that don't try to charge you to read the farking news.
2013-02-20 10:46:16 AM
1 votes:

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


Those opposed to legalized prostitution have always made their case by making unrealistic, sensational claims about it, and they're still doing that now. As actual academic studies show, most prostitution -even in the US where it's "illegal"- is consensual, pimpless, and typically a phase-of-life activity (meaning young people enter prostitution for extra money or curiosity, then leave it after a few years). Also noticeable in this article is the entire lack of any discussion of male-male homosexual prostitution which, again as academic studies consistently show, absolutely dwarfs the female-male side of the business. While trafficking and pimps do exist, they are a small part of sex-work, and one you can much more easily fight by bringing the industry out into the open and enforcing abuse/labor protection laws against those who assault and rip off prostitutes than by driving the entire industry back into the shadows.
2013-02-20 10:44:02 AM
1 votes:
l.yimg.com
Awful Dutch being all awful & stuff.
2013-02-20 10:42:52 AM
1 votes:

doglover: I'm pretty sure you can find sex slaves in America. Underage hookers as well. Not to mention the gun violence. Europe's not much better. And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.

Glass houses, etc.


It's a huge problem in Georgia, specifically the I-75 corridor.  All those "luv U longtiems" massage parlors are sketchy, and at least half of them are chinese sex slaves.  We're talking locked in a back room with 20 girls and cots at night, if required.  They evidently promise the girls freedom for a couple grand, then bring them here and shame them into paying their debt ("we'll tell your family you're a whore" type stuff).  It's ugly.  Thankfully, Macon and a few other cities are fighting back against them and cutting down the business.
2013-02-20 10:35:34 AM
1 votes:
I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.
2013-02-20 10:35:20 AM
1 votes:
holy fark I am so turned on by that pic in the article


cdn.spectator.co.uk
2013-02-20 10:31:00 AM
1 votes:

InmanRoshi: <i>Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution </i>

So basically like the Republican National Convention?


That would be under aged male prostitution.
2013-02-20 10:30:57 AM
1 votes:

Karac: Interesting tidbit: several years ago, the Department of Defense added a regulation which outlawed members of the military hiring a hooker; even if doing so was legal under the local laws - even if that location was one of those brothel-friendly Nevada counties.

The theory behind this was that the odds of the girl being a trafficed sex slave were so high that it could be presumed that no prostitute anywhere in the world was able to consent to sex and hiring her would be tantamount to rape.


thats because the areas where the US has bases tend to develop thriving Trafficking prostitution operations overnight.

lots of it went on when we were in Bosnia / Kosovo. Phillippennes is ridiculous in this regard as well.
2013-02-20 10:29:47 AM
1 votes:
<i>Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution </i>

So basically like the Republican National Convention?
2013-02-20 10:28:15 AM
1 votes:

Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.


that would be the anus.
2013-02-20 10:27:41 AM
1 votes:

Yes this is dog: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]

*checks profile*

I honestly can't figure out if you are just a troll account or just a douchebag.


Why not both?
2013-02-20 10:24:37 AM
1 votes:
gilgigamesh:  The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.

Did they? As far as I know, hookin' is still illegal in Vegas.  You have to go way outside of the city to get to the legal brothels.
2013-02-20 10:24:06 AM
1 votes:

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


I am sure all of that exists, you just do not run around where those actions occur.

I have lived on and off in Colombia over 20 years and there are plenty of Americans and Europeans living there now and they go native and say things like "Cocaine, hookers, kidnappings do not exist, I do not know what Colombia you live in, but not mine!"

Because they stay in their homes, and only venture out to places that their Colombian wives let them go, and usually only with family members and friends.

Plus the locals tend to put on their best behavior for not natives.

I on the other hand as a Colombian/American will say "what about  the four whore houses around the corner from the church?  the cabbie who just tried to sell me an eightball, and the lady with the photo book full of 15 year old hookers?" and the response is always "well, uh, you must be making that up!"

I have been to Amsterdam and thought it was a wonderful place, but I did see a lot of unwashed druggies and public urination, but it was mostly other Euros getting their party on.
2013-02-20 10:21:42 AM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.


Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.
2013-02-20 10:16:40 AM
1 votes:
1) Links to pay site
2) All the farkin stupid hipsters go to Berlin now, not A'dam
3) Germany has a gazillion more sex slaves than Holland
4) Fortunately no horsemeat scandal in Holland as it's been in the Frikandel the whole time
2013-02-20 10:16:10 AM
1 votes:

doublesecretprobation: human trafficking happens EVERYWHERE, not just in places with legalized prostitution.


Yeah, that article sounds more like bashing than truth.

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


Thank you.  It read like bashing, I'm glad to see my suspicion confirmed.
2013-02-20 10:15:49 AM
1 votes:
I have fallen behind. Which side of the aisle bankrolls The Spectator?
2013-02-20 10:12:00 AM
1 votes:
I have been to Amsterdam multiple times. I thought it was nice. The people were nice, the food was good, the city was friendly in general.
2013-02-20 10:08:04 AM
1 votes:
Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.
Biv
2013-02-20 10:07:11 AM
1 votes:
I fail to see the problem here.
2013-02-20 10:00:58 AM
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.


Perhaps.  The article is pretty light on facts.

The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.
2013-02-20 09:55:32 AM
1 votes:
2013-02-20 09:15:58 AM
1 votes:
i.adultswim.com

Dutch are scum
2013-02-20 09:13:30 AM
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.


I was, however, surprised at the open air drug market atmosphere that seemed to exist.  They were pretty lax about that, and the element that participated in it.  It seems like when they legalized weed and prostitution the cops pretty much stopped doing anything at all.  Or at least stopped enforcing laws that were still in effect.  Seems like that would fix a lot of what TFA is complaining about.
2013-02-20 09:00:08 AM
1 votes:
Teenage runaway hookers, you say?

Let me check with Expedia...
2013-02-20 08:43:28 AM
1 votes:
Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ
 
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