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(The Spectator UK)   What American hipsters think of Holland: weed, hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: underage runaways, sex trafficking, forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe   (spectator.co.uk) divider line 389
    More: Sad, Runaways, Holland, human trafficking, Europe, forced prostitution, freedoms, street prostitution, libidos  
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16696 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 10:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 08:43:28 AM
Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ
 
2013-02-20 08:49:59 AM

cman: Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ


I lived in Eindhoven for three years.  Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.
 
2013-02-20 08:52:35 AM
Sounds sexy.  Actually, when I went there (a BUNCH of times) I never once looked at the girls in the windows and said, "I think I'll have one of her and two of those."  It's about as sexy as buying a piece of meat at Trader Joe's.  While I'll walk around TJ's with a hard-on like a racehorse as often as the next guy, I never partook in the meat market portion of the redlight district.  Not b/c of morality issues, just b/c it wasn't sexy.  And about half the time I was with girls, so why pay for milk.

But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.
 
2013-02-20 08:57:01 AM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.


It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.
 
2013-02-20 08:57:25 AM
I'm pretty sure they (hipsters) think that because that's how Holland wants to be viewed by tourists. When foreigners think of New York, they think of Times Square, all the museums/plays, the Statue of Liberty; not the thousands of homeless, millions of rats, murders, traffic jams, etc. that are there every day.
 
2013-02-20 08:59:16 AM
human trafficking happens EVERYWHERE, not just in places with legalized prostitution.
 
2013-02-20 09:00:08 AM
Teenage runaway hookers, you say?

Let me check with Expedia...
 
2013-02-20 09:05:20 AM
I'm pretty sure you can find sex slaves in America. Underage hookers as well. Not to mention the gun violence. Europe's not much better. And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.

Glass houses, etc.
 
2013-02-20 09:13:30 AM

Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.


I was, however, surprised at the open air drug market atmosphere that seemed to exist.  They were pretty lax about that, and the element that participated in it.  It seems like when they legalized weed and prostitution the cops pretty much stopped doing anything at all.  Or at least stopped enforcing laws that were still in effect.  Seems like that would fix a lot of what TFA is complaining about.
 
2013-02-20 09:15:58 AM
i.adultswim.com

Dutch are scum
 
2013-02-20 09:24:10 AM
Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.
 
2013-02-20 09:31:28 AM
At least all those windmills will keep them cool.
 
2013-02-20 09:36:29 AM
So... other countries have problems?  It's not just us?  Good to know.
 
2013-02-20 09:36:41 AM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: And about half the time I was with girls, so why pay for milk.


You were getting the cow for free?
 
2013-02-20 09:46:12 AM
On of my ancestors left there before 1600. He settled inland of Sherwood Forest so I'm guessing he was running from someone with a navy.  He regained his title as English Lord and two generations later his grandson was Cromwell's right hand man with the whole choppy/choppy with Charles. I would love to know more.
 
2013-02-20 09:47:13 AM
Goddamned Dutch.
 
2013-02-20 09:50:05 AM
Hmm, I've already got my vacation time booked for this year.  Going to have to shift some stuff around...
 
2013-02-20 09:55:32 AM
 
2013-02-20 10:00:58 AM

Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.


Perhaps.  The article is pretty light on facts.

The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.
 
2013-02-20 10:06:26 AM
I'm calling for a moratorium on the word 'hipster', no one uses that  damn thing correctly
 
Biv
2013-02-20 10:07:11 AM
I fail to see the problem here.
 
2013-02-20 10:07:14 AM
There are two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
 
2013-02-20 10:08:04 AM
Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.
 
2013-02-20 10:09:12 AM
When I think of Holland, I think of underage sex prostitutes, and I'm not even Dutch!
 
2013-02-20 10:11:28 AM
become?
 
2013-02-20 10:11:57 AM
I spent some time in Amsterdam in the 90s. I thought it was very pretty and the people were very nice. Though I didn't purchase any fresh human-trafficked underage prostitutes. It wasn't in the brochure.
 
2013-02-20 10:12:00 AM
I have been to Amsterdam multiple times. I thought it was nice. The people were nice, the food was good, the city was friendly in general.
 
2013-02-20 10:12:04 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: At least all those windmills will keep them cool.


That really made me laugh way too much. But really, man, they aren't African Turtles, they are people.
 
2013-02-20 10:12:38 AM
I had a good time in Amsterdam...I think.
 
2013-02-20 10:13:00 AM

UberDave: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: And about half the time I was with girls, so why pay for milk.

You were getting the cow for free?


Oh, how I laughed at that!
 
2013-02-20 10:13:08 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: At least all those windmills will keep them cool.


i1.kym-cdn.com

Windmills do not work that way!
 
2013-02-20 10:13:36 AM
Well, at least they're not Belgian.
www.id-wall.com
 
2013-02-20 10:14:43 AM

Vodka Zombie: Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.


In other words, wonderful place unless you are a typical American.
 
2013-02-20 10:15:49 AM
I have fallen behind. Which side of the aisle bankrolls The Spectator?
 
2013-02-20 10:15:51 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: At least all those windmills will keep them cool.


WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
 
2013-02-20 10:16:10 AM

doublesecretprobation: human trafficking happens EVERYWHERE, not just in places with legalized prostitution.


Yeah, that article sounds more like bashing than truth.

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


Thank you.  It read like bashing, I'm glad to see my suspicion confirmed.
 
2013-02-20 10:16:40 AM
1) Links to pay site
2) All the farkin stupid hipsters go to Berlin now, not A'dam
3) Germany has a gazillion more sex slaves than Holland
4) Fortunately no horsemeat scandal in Holland as it's been in the Frikandel the whole time
 
2013-02-20 10:17:26 AM

DON.MAC: On of my ancestors left there before 1600. He settled inland of Sherwood Forest so I'm guessing he was running from someone with a navy.  He regained his title as English Lord and two generations later his grandson was Cromwell's right hand man with the whole choppy/choppy with Charles. I would love to know more.


Seriously thought you were talking about a Crusader Kings 2 playthrough. If you've never heard of the game, you should check it out.
 
2013-02-20 10:18:16 AM
I remember when "hipster" used to mean something

/also, before it was cool
 
2013-02-20 10:18:33 AM
So they've been hiding the good stuff from us.

/fark your paywall
 
2013-02-20 10:18:49 AM
The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....
 
2013-02-20 10:20:05 AM
LOL first article from the spectator I think I've read and I have reached the monthly viewing allotment XD
 
2013-02-20 10:20:37 AM

Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....


do people bring hookers in their bags with them?
 
2013-02-20 10:20:55 AM
Isn't Holland the place that's filled with "swamp Germans"?
 
2013-02-20 10:21:22 AM

Andromeda: American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all. Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party. Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.


I'm not surprised that TFA might be a little disingenuous. But to be honest, I never think about Holland at all anyways. Until this headline, I can't remember the last time I thought about Holland.
 
2013-02-20 10:21:29 AM
That sounds like Toledo and the armpit of America but without the hipster admiration.
 
2013-02-20 10:21:42 AM
Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
pnsexplosion.com
 
2013-02-20 10:21:42 AM

gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.


Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.
 
2013-02-20 10:21:57 AM

Vodka Zombie: cman: Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ

I lived in Eindhoven for three years.  Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.


Netherlands is the best, I have no clue what that idiot was talking about, if I could find a job there I would leave asap.
 
2013-02-20 10:22:17 AM
Every single negative about prostitution pointed out already existed when it was illegal in greater numbers
 
2013-02-20 10:23:22 AM

doublesecretprobation: human trafficking happens EVERYWHERE, not just in places with legalized prostitution.


THis
 
2013-02-20 10:24:06 AM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


I am sure all of that exists, you just do not run around where those actions occur.

I have lived on and off in Colombia over 20 years and there are plenty of Americans and Europeans living there now and they go native and say things like "Cocaine, hookers, kidnappings do not exist, I do not know what Colombia you live in, but not mine!"

Because they stay in their homes, and only venture out to places that their Colombian wives let them go, and usually only with family members and friends.

Plus the locals tend to put on their best behavior for not natives.

I on the other hand as a Colombian/American will say "what about  the four whore houses around the corner from the church?  the cabbie who just tried to sell me an eightball, and the lady with the photo book full of 15 year old hookers?" and the response is always "well, uh, you must be making that up!"

I have been to Amsterdam and thought it was a wonderful place, but I did see a lot of unwashed druggies and public urination, but it was mostly other Euros getting their party on.
 
2013-02-20 10:24:35 AM
 
2013-02-20 10:24:37 AM
gilgigamesh:  The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.

Did they? As far as I know, hookin' is still illegal in Vegas.  You have to go way outside of the city to get to the legal brothels.
 
2013-02-20 10:25:01 AM

Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.


i.imgur.com


R.I.P. ADIL HOXHA

 
2013-02-20 10:25:29 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


*checks profile*

I honestly can't figure out if you are just a troll account or just a douchebag.
 
2013-02-20 10:26:15 AM

scottydoesntknow: I'm pretty sure they (hipsters) think that because that's how Holland wants to be viewed by tourists. When foreigners think of New York, they think of Times Square, all the museums/plays, the Statue of Liberty; not the thousands of homeless, millions of rats, murders, traffic jams, etc. that are there every day.


it wasn't like that before Giuliani had all the homeless people secretly killed.  I, personally, miss the grit, not to mention the semi-affordable real estate.
 
2013-02-20 10:26:55 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


Phishhead.
 
2013-02-20 10:26:57 AM
Holland is a phenomenal place, except for the parts where the Americans visit.

"Bro, I just had an amazing idea while we were getting stoned.   Let's go to Holland to get stoned!!!"
 
2013-02-20 10:27:02 AM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


I loved that damn place so relaxing even when I was sober, only thing keeping me here is the GFs son, she won't move away from him
 
2013-02-20 10:27:17 AM

Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.


Which strikes me as odd, considering Vegas legalized gambling and has made a ton of money on that pony.
 
2013-02-20 10:27:19 AM

Vodka Zombie: cman: Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ

I lived in Eindhoven for three years.  Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.


Ah, Stratumseind, I lost a lot of braincells there.

Who knew that the Dutch started this whole exploitation of other people thing?
 
2013-02-20 10:27:27 AM
I thought sex trafficking was forced prostitution.
 
2013-02-20 10:27:41 AM

Yes this is dog: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]

*checks profile*

I honestly can't figure out if you are just a troll account or just a douchebag.


Why not both?
 
2013-02-20 10:27:48 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...


Wrong again. That's clearly a Gary Johnson voter.
 
2013-02-20 10:27:55 AM
Let's not let this thread drift too far off course.  Steady rudder, folks.
 
2013-02-20 10:27:59 AM

Yes this is dog: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]

*checks profile*

I honestly can't figure out if you are just a troll account or just a douchebag.


does it really have to be one or the other?

/why can't we have both
 
2013-02-20 10:28:12 AM

Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....


Because you could put 2 hookers at the Superbowl and it would be the highest number of illegal whores in the world, because most countries have legal hookers.
 
2013-02-20 10:28:15 AM

Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.


that would be the anus.
 
2013-02-20 10:28:33 AM
Looks like the Dutch have lost their rudder.
 
2013-02-20 10:29:03 AM

gadian: I thought sex trafficking was forced prostitution.


no, no... sex trafficking is when you have sex in the middle of rush hour traffic.
 
2013-02-20 10:29:21 AM

MBooda: Let's not let this thread drift too far off course.  Steady rudder, folks.


what you did there... i see it.
 
2013-02-20 10:29:25 AM
Interesting tidbit: several years ago, the Department of Defense added a regulation which outlawed members of the military hiring a hooker; even if doing so was legal under the local laws - even if that location was one of those brothel-friendly Nevada counties.

The theory behind this was that the odds of the girl being a trafficed sex slave were so high that it could be presumed that no prostitute anywhere in the world was able to consent to sex and hiring her would be tantamount to rape.
 
2013-02-20 10:29:38 AM
I have been to Holland and really found the people to live there to be awesome. There is a seedy district in Amsterdam where it seems most of the bad stuff is limited to but that is like any other major city in the US or Europe.
 
2013-02-20 10:29:42 AM

Yes this is dog: I honestly can't figure out if you are just a troll account or just a douchebag.


I'll take 3 of each please.
 
2013-02-20 10:29:47 AM
<i>Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution </i>

So basically like the Republican National Convention?
 
2013-02-20 10:29:57 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]



I just glanced at your profile.

You seem a bit obsessed with something.
 
2013-02-20 10:30:13 AM

SpectroBoy: I have been to Amsterdam multiple times. I thought it was nice. The people were nice, the food was good, the city was friendly in general.



You sure you were really there?????

Lovely, lovely place. Lovely people. Terrible food.

I sound fat...
 
2013-02-20 10:30:48 AM

Bastard Toadflax: Looks like the Dutch have lost their rudder.


what someone who lost their rudder may look like:
images.hitfix.com
 
2013-02-20 10:30:57 AM

Karac: Interesting tidbit: several years ago, the Department of Defense added a regulation which outlawed members of the military hiring a hooker; even if doing so was legal under the local laws - even if that location was one of those brothel-friendly Nevada counties.

The theory behind this was that the odds of the girl being a trafficed sex slave were so high that it could be presumed that no prostitute anywhere in the world was able to consent to sex and hiring her would be tantamount to rape.


thats because the areas where the US has bases tend to develop thriving Trafficking prostitution operations overnight.

lots of it went on when we were in Bosnia / Kosovo. Phillippennes is ridiculous in this regard as well.
 
2013-02-20 10:30:58 AM

cman: Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ


There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.
 
2013-02-20 10:31:00 AM

InmanRoshi: <i>Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution </i>

So basically like the Republican National Convention?


That would be under aged male prostitution.
 
2013-02-20 10:31:11 AM
and by underage you mean????
 
2013-02-20 10:31:48 AM

HairBolus: The Dutch - Threat or Menace?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 505x671]

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 808x801]


I love how they give me two lousy options.

/The girl?
//Time-travel to the time the photo was taken, wash the girl, and bring her to my chamber
 
2013-02-20 10:31:59 AM

CheatCommando: Vodka Zombie: Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.

In other words, wonderful place unless you are a typical American.


Fortunately we have you to raise the curve.
 
2013-02-20 10:32:43 AM

theflatline: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

Because you could put 2 hookers at the Superbowl and it would be the highest number of illegal whores in the world, because most countries have legal hookers.


At the Super Bowl, there are always at least 22 legal whores on the field.

/and overpaid
 
2013-02-20 10:32:47 AM

Vodka Zombie: I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.


An entire country that doesn't border the country where Copenhagen is located.  Sounds a bit like taking the worst aspects of Vancouver BC to preach about the problems in Mexico.
 
2013-02-20 10:32:47 AM

doublesecretprobation: human trafficking happens EVERYWHERE, not just in places with legalized prostitution.


This.

It happens in the United States all of the time.
 
2013-02-20 10:33:25 AM

SpectroBoy: I have been to Amsterdam multiple times. I thought it was nice. The people were nice, the food was good, the city was friendly in general.


in other words, you smoked a lot of weed.
 
2013-02-20 10:33:36 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


Go back to /pol/.
 
2013-02-20 10:34:45 AM
Both FTA:

Nowhere else in the world is street prostitution legal,WRONG


A third of Amsterdam's bordellos have been closed due to the involvement of organised criminals and drug dealers and the increase in trafficking of women.  So, 33% criminal business, hardly a good try
 
2013-02-20 10:35:17 AM

Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....


In just about every place the Super Bowl is held  any prostitution is illegal prostitution, from the $10 BJ in the parking lot to the $2000/hr "escort".

So get back to us on that when we have legal, regulated prostitution like the Dutch .. or when they hold a Super Bowl outside the Mustang Ranch.  Otherwise the comparison is worse than useless -- it's misleading.
 
2013-02-20 10:35:20 AM
holy fark I am so turned on by that pic in the article


cdn.spectator.co.uk
 
2013-02-20 10:35:26 AM
Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.
 
2013-02-20 10:35:34 AM
I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.
 
2013-02-20 10:35:49 AM
TFA: "You've reached your limit of free Spectator articles for this month"

/WTF!?
 
2013-02-20 10:36:34 AM

grokca: Ah, Stratumseind, I lost a lot of braincells there.


I've done both Carneval and Konninenedag (sic) there.  That's one awesome party row.  Protip:  wear dirty old shoes when you go.
 
2013-02-20 10:36:45 AM
I saw the slagboom at bergen op zoom near the fietsterpad.
 
2013-02-20 10:37:32 AM

JerseyTim: Looks like Bill O'Reilly was right.


This is exactly what came to mind when reading TFA.
 
2013-02-20 10:40:20 AM

UberDave: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: And about half the time I was with girls, so why pay for milk.

You were getting the cow for free?


Are you calling my girlfriend a cow, rookie?
 
2013-02-20 10:41:34 AM

scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.


The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.
2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".
3. Spaniards - they think everyone in latin america are inferior creatures but love banging the women there.
 
2013-02-20 10:41:58 AM
The Dutch wrote their prostitution laws back when the Iron Curtain was up.

Now it's down, and there's lots of trafficking.

So the Dutch are revising their laws.

*yawn*

Does this really surprise anyone? They have no ideological attachment to legalized prostitution.
 
2013-02-20 10:42:23 AM

theflatline: Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.

I am sure all of that exists, you just do not run around where those actions occur.

I have lived on and off in Colombia over 20 years and there are plenty of Americans and Europeans living there now and they go native and say things like "Cocaine, hookers, kidnappings do not exist, I do not know what Colombia you live in, but not mine!"

Because they stay in their homes, and only venture out to places that their Colombian wives let them go, and usually only with family members and friends.

Plus the locals tend to put on their best behavior for not natives.

I on the other hand as a Colombian/American will say "what about  the four whore houses around the corner from the church?  the cabbie who just tried to sell me an eightball, and the lady with the photo book full of 15 year old hookers?" and the response is always "well, uh, you must be making that up!"

I have been to Amsterdam and thought it was a wonderful place, but I did see a lot of unwashed druggies and public urination, but it was mostly other Euros getting their party on.


Like anyone who lives in Amsterdam I do know where this stuff is going on, but as you point out it's not really the Dutch involved- it's tourists.  And as I said I'm sure there are underage prostitutes in any place in America, so does that mean you don't know you're city?

I'm not claiming a year and a half makes me as well-versed as the Dutch who have lived here all their lives, but I do think it makes me qualified to call bullshait on the sensationalism in the article.  I have many Dutch and expat friends and never heard of any of my female friends complaining of being accosted, or anyone ever encountering anything shady.  I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

I really hope that this article does turn off some from visiting though.  More local beers in the most beautiful city in the world for us!
 
2013-02-20 10:42:41 AM
Why didn't you just say so Holland?  Now I have more reasons to visit than ever before!
 
2013-02-20 10:42:52 AM

doglover: I'm pretty sure you can find sex slaves in America. Underage hookers as well. Not to mention the gun violence. Europe's not much better. And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.

Glass houses, etc.


It's a huge problem in Georgia, specifically the I-75 corridor.  All those "luv U longtiems" massage parlors are sketchy, and at least half of them are chinese sex slaves.  We're talking locked in a back room with 20 girls and cots at night, if required.  They evidently promise the girls freedom for a couple grand, then bring them here and shame them into paying their debt ("we'll tell your family you're a whore" type stuff).  It's ugly.  Thankfully, Macon and a few other cities are fighting back against them and cutting down the business.
 
2013-02-20 10:43:06 AM

CygnusDarius: Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.

Which strikes me as odd, considering Vegas legalized gambling and has made a ton of money on that pony.


They don't want to jeopardize the gambling money. Las Vega already has a somewhat unsavory reputation. Legalized prostitution would increase the unsavoriness to the point that a lot of people/conventions would start avoiding it.
 
2013-02-20 10:44:02 AM
l.yimg.com
Awful Dutch being all awful & stuff.
 
2013-02-20 10:45:32 AM

RulerOfNone: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]

Go back to /pol/.


Conservatives are both "right" and wrong at the same time.  And never very funny.
 
2013-02-20 10:46:16 AM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


Those opposed to legalized prostitution have always made their case by making unrealistic, sensational claims about it, and they're still doing that now. As actual academic studies show, most prostitution -even in the US where it's "illegal"- is consensual, pimpless, and typically a phase-of-life activity (meaning young people enter prostitution for extra money or curiosity, then leave it after a few years). Also noticeable in this article is the entire lack of any discussion of male-male homosexual prostitution which, again as academic studies consistently show, absolutely dwarfs the female-male side of the business. While trafficking and pimps do exist, they are a small part of sex-work, and one you can much more easily fight by bringing the industry out into the open and enforcing abuse/labor protection laws against those who assault and rip off prostitutes than by driving the entire industry back into the shadows.
 
2013-02-20 10:46:16 AM

theflatline: Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.

I am sure all of that exists, you just do not run around where those actions occur.

I have lived on and off in Colombia over 20 years and there are plenty of Americans and Europeans living there now and they go native and say things like "Cocaine, hookers, kidnappings do not exist, I do not know what Colombia you live in, but not mine!"

Because they stay in their homes, and only venture out to places that their Colombian wives let them go, and usually only with family members and friends.

Plus the locals tend to put on their best behavior for not natives.

I on the other hand as a Colombian/American will say "what about  the four whore houses around the corner from the church?  the cabbie who just tried to sell me an eightball, and the lady with the photo book full of 15 year old hookers?" and the response is always "well, uh, you must be making that up!"

I have been to Amsterdam and thought it was a wonderful place, but I did see a lot of unwashed druggies and public urination, but it was mostly other Euros getting their party on.


Aren't you doing the same thing? They are saying that the parts they've seen are nice, so the country must be nice. You are saying, yeah but some parts are awful so the whole country is awful.
 
2013-02-20 10:46:23 AM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


I lived there for 3 years as an American Expat.  Best 3 years of my life, and I've never felt safer.  The worst crime problems are the ubiquitous bicycle theft and the fact that about 100% of the landlords are violating the rental laws by doing things like charging you 150 euro for 50 euro worth of electricity.  The problems with drunken tourists are the same as that can be found in any American city that has tourists and a bar scene.
 
2013-02-20 10:46:23 AM
The Netherlands is not the armpit of Europe.

Moldova is the armpit of Europe.
 
2013-02-20 10:47:15 AM
consider the source - why not look up Julie Bindel and see whether you think she looked at Amsterdam in a fair and balanced way.
 
2013-02-20 10:47:22 AM
It can be both.

And get real.

When Americans think of Holland, the first thing they think of is jokes about fingers in dykes.
 
2013-02-20 10:48:03 AM

Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.


No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.
 
2013-02-20 10:50:02 AM

Andromeda: theflatline: Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.

I am sure all of that exists, you just do not run around where those actions occur.

I have lived on and off in Colombia over 20 years and there are plenty of Americans and Europeans living there now and they go native and say things like "Cocaine, hookers, kidnappings do not exist, I do not know what Colombia you live in, but not mine!"

Because they stay in their homes, and only venture out to places that their Colombian wives let them go, and usually only with family members and friends.

Plus the locals tend to put on their best behavior for not natives.

I on the other hand as a Colombian/American will say "what about  the four whore houses around the corner from the church?  the cabbie who just tried to sell me an eightball, and the lady with the photo book full of 15 year old hookers?" and the response is always "well, uh, you must be making that up!"

I have been to Amsterdam and thought it was a wonderful place, but I did see a lot of unwashed druggies and public urination, but it was mostly other Euros getting their party on.

Like anyone who lives in Amsterdam I do know where this stuff is going on, but as you point out it's not really the Dutch involved- it's tourists.  And as I said I'm sure there are underage prostitutes in any place in America, so does that mean you don't know you're city?

I'm not claiming a year and a half makes me as well-verse ...


I know my city Ocala, Florida and I would be hard pressed to find an underage hooker, though I am sure there are some, maybe at John Travoltas house, but I would imagine on pure per capita level Amsterdam has more than I could ever dig up.

I also walk home at least twice a week from my local about 1 mile from my house in the wee small hours, and have never been accosted.  Plenty of places in the US you can wander about in the early am and not be bothered.

And I am sure the Dutch party as hard as the tourists do, they are just discreet about it.   Plus the Dutch allow it so they do not exactly have clean hands, it makes them a ton of tourist money.
 
2013-02-20 10:50:25 AM

Vodka Zombie: cman: Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ

I lived in Eindhoven for three years.  Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.


Personally I'd find this "fact" as a plus for Holland but maybe I'm a little messed up like that.
(no need for other Farkers to follow up on this)
 
2013-02-20 10:50:54 AM
Farkers should find news sites that don't try to charge you to read the farking news.
 
2013-02-20 10:51:07 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]



Wow... What a brilliant insight. It's like rational adults were having a conversation and you ran in between them, took a dump on the floor and then ran away.
 
2013-02-20 10:51:12 AM
Shh, you don't want to shatter any silly delusions people have because they've learned to hate their own country for some reason.

The only way you're going to have a country without any problems in it is if there are also no people in it.
 
2013-02-20 10:51:16 AM

Where wolf: It's a huge problem in Georgia, specifically the I-75 corridor. All those "luv U longtiems" massage parlors are sketchy, and at least half of them are chinese sex slaves. We're talking locked in a back room with 20 girls and cots at night, if required. They evidently promise the girls freedom for a couple grand, then bring them here and shame them into paying their debt ("we'll tell your family you're a whore" type stuff). It's ugly. Thankfully, Macon and a few other cities are fighting back against them and cutting down the business.



It's easier from European countries that don't require a visa.  The deal generally is that their recruiter promises them a legitimate job (modeling typically) in exchange for getting them in to the country.  Yeah, that job ends up being working a pole, at best.  And since the recruiter keeps their passports, most of the individuals are easily trapped..
 
2013-02-20 10:52:22 AM

skullkrusher: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

do people bring hookers in their bags with them?


Pimps move their hookers to whatever city it is in.
 
2013-02-20 10:52:38 AM
People still hate hipsters? They're old now(late 20s, early 30s) & are in the work force.


/but they still drink pbr's.
 
2013-02-20 10:53:12 AM

Kitten_Pryde: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: At least all those windmills will keep them cool.

WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!


Why the fark did I laugh so heartily at that?
 
2013-02-20 10:53:33 AM

randomjsa: Shh, you don't want to shatter any silly delusions people have because they've learned to hate their own country for some reason.

The only way you're going to have a country without any problems in it is if there are also no people in it.


Could not have said it better myself.

Expats, especially those from the states, always see where they are living with rose colored glassed.
 
2013-02-20 10:53:51 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: Bastard Toadflax: Looks like the Dutch have lost their rudder.

what someone who lost their rudder may look like:
[images.hitfix.com image 326x217]



I believe the Anjin-san lost his "rutter."
 
2013-02-20 10:54:03 AM

InmanRoshi: <i>Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution </i>

So basically like the Republican National Convention?


More like Bill Clinton's office...especially on Thursday.

/if his herpes isn't flaring up of course
//not a repeat of 1994
///aren't you tired of pointing out the exceptions to make yourself feel better about your own shortcomings?
 
2013-02-20 10:54:34 AM
So.....they're the New Jersey of Europe?
 
Biv
2013-02-20 10:55:05 AM
We need more examples of what a Dutch girl who could be subjected to prostitution might look like.
 
2013-02-20 10:55:20 AM

Ebbelwoi: grokca: Ah, Stratumseind, I lost a lot of braincells there.

I've done both Carneval and Konninenedag (sic) there.  That's one awesome party row.  Protip:  wear dirty old shoes when you go.


I was there for EK2000, that was a party. Hot, 32C during the day 28C at night,  Dutch women dress really nice when the temps are like that.
 
2013-02-20 10:55:20 AM

maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.


Its spelled "romania" and no way. Bucarest is a little rough but you go up to Brasov and into the carpathians and romania is wonderful. Its very poor in places, sure, but its great.

gypsies are scum give you that but it doesnt take down the whole country. if that was the case than HU and CZ would be Armpits, and that is far from the truth.

go see brasov, its like salzburg without the japanese and mozartkugel.
 
2013-02-20 10:55:47 AM

randomjsa: Shh, you don't want to shatter any silly delusions people have because they've learned to hate their own country for some reason.

The only way you're going to have a country without any problems in it is if there are also no people in it.


nicholasburgess.com
 
2013-02-20 10:56:58 AM

maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.


I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage
 
2013-02-20 10:57:27 AM

andersoncouncil42: I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.


Yeah, Ugly American article written by an Ugly American magazine written for an  Ugly American audience who believe a night at On the Border for fajitas and margaritas constitutes experiencing an exotic culture.
 
2013-02-20 10:57:51 AM

mongbiohazard: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


Wow... What a brilliant insight. It's like rational adults were having a conversation and you ran in between them, took a dump on the floor and then ran away.


It's a troll account.  Check the profile.  Only a couple of the fundyest teahadists are that stupid.
 
2013-02-20 10:58:23 AM
go to youtube and look up jeremy clarkson's meet the neighbours and find the holland episode. funny and informative in many ways.
 
2013-02-20 10:58:36 AM

theflatline: 3. Spaniards - they think everyone in latin america are inferior creatures but love banging the women there.


Well sure, they conquered the place. Granted it was more than 400 years ago, but still, that was the impression they brought home.
 
2013-02-20 10:59:04 AM

maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.


No...no...it's Albania, and there are pleny of Romany (sp.?) wandering around Tirana carrying babies in their arms begging for money while you are trying to have a cup of coffee in some smoke-filled outdoor cafe....screw Albania.

/But the "Three Bears" was nice!
 
2013-02-20 10:59:53 AM
I thought Kolkata (Calcutta) was the armpit of Europe? Or maybe it was the asshole..
 
2013-02-20 11:00:15 AM

Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage


Sounds like Albania...
 
2013-02-20 11:00:16 AM

Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.


Oh gee willickers Conservative types are misrepresenting things to better sell their stale and failed ideology? Damn goddamn Batman history has never recorded this happening
 
2013-02-20 11:00:41 AM
All countries have their contradictions.

My first wife came to the US as an exchange student and ended up living here and becoming a citizen. Despite its freedoms and tolerance she felt if she stayed in the Netherlands of the 80's she was 'doomed' to a life of wife and mother. Here she was a wife, mother, NASA space fellow, lawyer and elected the County Treasurer.

On the other hand her sister who stayed became a computer programmer for a major dutch bank. However as a single women she was not allowed to work after hours if a married man was also working late.

Of course the most amazing to me was their attitudes toward crime and punishment. Their  cops really are more public servant than enforcer. I remember once we were visiting my bother in law in some college town up north were they had a real problem with jay walkers and people disregarding the ped crossings at intersections. So the cops disabled all the crossing lights until the populace beg the police to turn them back on and promised to be good little pedestrians.
 
2013-02-20 11:00:41 AM

InmanRoshi: andersoncouncil42: I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.

Yeah, Ugly American article written by an Ugly American magazine written for an  Ugly American audience who believe a night at On the Border for fajitas and margaritas constitutes experiencing an exotic culture.


Saturday Night Live did a Fox & Friends bit about the Euro-horsemeat ruckus and did accurately portray both the Newsmen and the intended audience's understanding of The Europe.

"Italy has unlimited breadsticks."

"No, that was the Olive Garden."
 
2013-02-20 11:01:54 AM

Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.


In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.
 
2013-02-20 11:02:06 AM

H31N0US: I have fallen behind. Which side of the aisle bankrolls The Spectator?


Reactionary Upper Class Tories. Have you ever heard of Auberon Waugh?

For the American equivalent read Cleveland Amory's The Trouble with Nowadays.

I had an acquaintance who cried when he Montreal Massacre occurred (14 dead) at the thought of all the hay the feminists and anti-gun lobby would make of the massacre. He hated Cleveland Amory. For his cat books and pro-wildlife agitprop.

Any hoo, like the neo-cons, the people who write for and read The Spectator are further to the right than The American Spectator. They dream of putting things back the way they should be, which means either the Belle Epoque, the Gilded Age, the Age of Robber Barons, or the Early Middle Ages.

Mind you, some of these people's family fortunes go back to the Middle Ages. Others are jumped up coal merchants, wool merchants, toothpaste mongers, or brewers. Big, old money.

A brief bibliography:

BooksThe Cat and the CurmudgeonThe Best Cat Ever Hometown The Proper Bostonians Who Killed Society? (1960)[13] Cleveland Amory's Compleat Cat The last resorts Animail Newport: There she sits Cat Tales: Classic Stories from Favorite Writers Man Kind? Our Incredible War on Wildlife 1902 Edition of The Sears, Roebuck Catalog The Trouble with Nowadays : A Curmudgeon Strikes Back Ranch of Dreams: A Lifelong Protector of Animals Shares the Story of His Extraordinary Sanctuary Cats, animal rights and making fun of the upper classes he knew so well. What's not to love? But I digress.

Note: Do not confuse Cleveland Amory with Richard Armory. They are both funny on the subject of the classics. That is all.
 
2013-02-20 11:02:47 AM
doczoidberg:

I just glanced at your profile.

You seem a bit obsessed with something.


clane:
OMG, LMAO, your brilliant!
 
2013-02-20 11:02:59 AM
theflatline: 1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.
2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".
3. Spaniards - they think everyone in latin america are inferior creatures but love banging the women there.


Any pack of Brits flying to a cheap Euro destination on RyanAir for a Stag Weekend are by far the worst tourists.    But yeah, the Israeli conscripts  fresh out service with a huge wad of cash in their pockets can be awful   (see Manali)
 
2013-02-20 11:03:38 AM

InmanRoshi: andersoncouncil42: I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.

Yeah, Ugly American article written by an Ugly American magazine written for an  Ugly American audience who believe a night at On the Border for fajitas and margaritas constitutes experiencing an exotic culture.


Except, it's an English author writing for an English magazine. It may have been written for an Ugly American audience, but I doubt it.
 
2013-02-20 11:05:18 AM

RidgeRacerZX6: All countries have their contradictions.

My first wife came to the US as an exchange student and ended up living here and becoming a citizen. Despite its freedoms and tolerance she felt if she stayed in the Netherlands of the 80's she was 'doomed' to a life of wife and mother. Here she was a wife, mother, NASA space fellow, lawyer and elected the County Treasurer.

On the other hand her sister who stayed became a computer programmer for a major dutch bank. However as a single women she was not allowed to work after hours if a married man was also working late.

Of course the most amazing to me was their attitudes toward crime and punishment. Their  cops really are more public servant than enforcer. I remember once we were visiting my bother in law in some college town up north were they had a real problem with jay walkers and people disregarding the ped crossings at intersections. So the cops disabled all the crossing lights until the populace beg the police to turn them back on and promised to be good little pedestrians.


My Colombian wife is amazingly intelligent, graduated high school at 14, and immediately started working as a nanny, then was apprencticed to a pastry chef, it has taken me about 3 years to wash the idea out of her head that she should wait on everyone hand and foot and that she is more than a caregiver.

Colombian police are only interested in texting girls and shaking down people, so Colombians never obey the law.

Bogota had a mayor that realized that the only way to make people act correctly was to to publically shame them, so in one of the busiest intersections he hired 100s of mimes and every time someone broke a traffic law the mimes made fun of them.  The intersection is now the safest place to drive in the city.
 
2013-02-20 11:05:36 AM

Andromeda: American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.


Just like in the U.S., there are good neighborhoods and bad ones.   Pretty much the same phenomenon where Europeans read articles about the U.S. and get an extremely warped view.  I've lived in the U.S. for 44 years and never once seen a shooting, a mugging, a gun-nut waving a gun around,etc.  I've had European friends ask me if i'm afraid of being shot, lol. The media emphasizes what is spectacular.  They don't write stories about the hundreds of millions of people living in quiet neighborhoodsraising children and and living their lives in peace.
 
2013-02-20 11:06:47 AM

gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.


No.  Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas.
 
2013-02-20 11:06:59 AM
However, Liam Nesson sightings are on the rise:
www.imfdb.org
 
2013-02-20 11:07:48 AM

brantgoose: H31N0US: I have fallen behind. Which side of the aisle bankrolls The Spectator?

Any hoo, like the neo-cons, the people who write for and read The Spectator are further to the right than The American Spectator.


I looked up the author and she's a lesbian feminist who believes marriage should be abolished. That doesn't sound very far right.
 
2013-02-20 11:07:59 AM

Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage


I'd say the majority of the former Soviet satellite-states (with a few notable exceptions) because anything the soviets touched -with their tanks- turned to shiat.
 
2013-02-20 11:08:35 AM
Netherlands the armpit of Europe?

Oh HELL no!

The Netherlands is more like a sexy thigh....or a nice belly.

The author is full of shiat.
 
2013-02-20 11:08:35 AM

gilgigamesh: Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.

Perhaps.  The article is pretty light on facts.

The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.


Sex trade isn't legal in Vegas.  It is legal in Nevada, but not within the city limits of Paradise or Las Vegas.
 
2013-02-20 11:09:33 AM
Holland ... a land of contrasts.
 
2013-02-20 11:09:36 AM
theflatline:  Bogota had a mayor that realized that the only way to make people act correctly was to to publically shame them, so in one of the busiest intersections he hired 100s of mimes and every time someone broke a traffic law the mimes made fun of them.  The intersection is now the safest place to drive in the city.

That, and everyone is afraid of mimes.
 
2013-02-20 11:10:14 AM

CygnusDarius: Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage

I'd say the majority of the former Soviet satellite-states (with a few notable exceptions) because anything the soviets touched -with their tanks- turned to shiat.


On my end of the world I will submit Caracas in Venezuela or Buena Ventura in Colombia, and 90% of Panama.
 
2013-02-20 11:10:19 AM
The South Bronx was bad in 1979, therefore America sucks forever.
 
2013-02-20 11:11:09 AM
Andromeda: correct stuff

my ex from school lived in maastricht for a while. i've been to the dam of course. safest i felt the entire time i was in europe. seriously, the touristy areas are just fine. i only got offered crack once. i get offered crack more often in my native new jersey than i ever did in amsterdam. place is great, even if you don't smoke. a wonderful city

/im dutch-american.
//so maybe im biased
///hup hup holland Oranje goooooooooo
 
2013-02-20 11:11:31 AM
If the article had a legitimate point to make, which it likely did, it failed to convince.  It read more like an opinion piece than any serious reporting.

Lack of specifics, studies, numbers, etc. mean that it is just fluff.  Choosing a histrionic tone over substance is a poor trade-off.
 
2013-02-20 11:11:31 AM

theflatline: scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.

The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.
2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".
3. Spaniards - they think everyone in latin america are inferior creatures but love banging the women there.


Occasionally Expedia takes a huge survey of European service workers, where they grade tourists based on their nationality. Americans tend to do pretty well  (at least top half, if not top third). Japanese usually are #1 and the Russians, French, Indians and Chinese are at the bottom.
 
2013-02-20 11:11:48 AM

Andromeda: theflatline: Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.

I am sure all of that exists, you just do not run around where those actions occur.

I have lived on and off in Colombia over 20 years and there are plenty of Americans and Europeans living there now and they go native and say things like "Cocaine, hookers, kidnappings do not exist, I do not know what Colombia you live in, but not mine!"

Because they stay in their homes, and only venture out to places that their Colombian wives let them go, and usually only with family members and friends.

Plus the locals tend to put on their best behavior for not natives.

I on the other hand as a Colombian/American will say "what about  the four whore houses around the corner from the church?  the cabbie who just tried to sell me an eightball, and the lady with the photo book full of 15 year old hookers?" and the response is always "well, uh, you must be making that up!"

I have been to Amsterdam and thought it was a wonderful place, but I did see a lot of unwashed druggies and public urination, but it was mostly other Euros getting their party on.

Like anyone who lives in Amsterdam I do know where this stuff is going on, but as you point out it's not really the Dutch involved- it's tourists.  And as I said I'm sure there are underage prostitutes in any place in America, so does that mean you don't know you're city?

I'm not claiming a year and a half makes me as well-verse ...


Yeah, really. I had to move there in 2009 for work for six months and was completely shocked at how much of a clean, fun, well run city Amsterdam was considering what I had heard about it.

I am trying to figure out how one can see a bunch of public urination when you got those big metal barrel-looking building things all over the place to pee in so no-one has to see your junk.
 
2013-02-20 11:13:26 AM

theflatline: CygnusDarius: Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage

I'd say the majority of the former Soviet satellite-states (with a few notable exceptions) because anything the soviets touched -with their tanks- turned to shiat.

On my end of the world I will submit Caracas in Venezuela or Buena Ventura in Colombia, and 90% of Panama.


If now we're doing this for Latin America, my own country (Mexico) is probably that part of the backside that is not the back, but it's not the ass, either. The utter stupidity of 3/4 of my own government and some of my own people has made me realize I prefer to describe myself as a 'citizen of the world' instead of Mexican, for the most part.
 
2013-02-20 11:13:34 AM

InmanRoshi: andersoncouncil42: I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.

Yeah, Ugly American article written by an Ugly American magazine written for an  Ugly American audience who believe a night at On the Border for fajitas and margaritas constitutes experiencing an exotic culture.


No, they're not Ugly Americans (see my post on The Spectatorites and that ilk). They're Ugly Brits ... the genuine article, accept no substitutes. These are the people who invented Ugly Americanism and exported it to America. But with that quibble set aside, you are absolutely bang on the nail head. I'm not sure what a night at On the Border's English equivalent is, but I assume it involves really hot curries or possibly really bad paellas.
 
2013-02-20 11:13:52 AM

maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.


My parents used to threaten to sell me to the gypsies when I was younger.  This made me terrified of gypsies.  As an adult, I put most of that fear behind me until I saw the "gypsy wedding" shows on TLC.  Now, I am again terrified of gypsies and their huge dresses.
 
kab
2013-02-20 11:14:41 AM
It's almost as if personal responsibility has a potential downside.

Thank god we're striving to simply do away with it here in the god-blessed USA.
 
2013-02-20 11:15:00 AM

GalFriday: Sex trade isn't legal in Vegas.  It is legal in Nevada, but not within the city limits of Paradise or Las Vegas.


No one has told the prostitutes that since I was hit up by one in a mall within the city limits of Las Vegas just last month.

/she seemed a tad disappointed when I told her I was gay
//she offered me the card of a male prostitute
///I told her I didn't need it - I have grindr
 
2013-02-20 11:15:06 AM

Frothy Panties: Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage

Sounds like Albania...


Thats what my buddy said too, but I didnt go on that deployment. On another note my other Army buddy who is at Bragg was dating the little sister of the former Miss Albania Lejla Shallci
 
2013-02-20 11:15:31 AM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


I was there last week and it seemed to me that the lurid parts really only appeal to some kinds of tourists, and that the Dutch tolerate them because they're good for business.

/"Why yes I'm happy to speak English" feels as weird to get as it does to ask for in a shop
//I could literally eat stroopwafels until I explode
 
2013-02-20 11:16:04 AM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.


I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.
 
2013-02-20 11:16:07 AM

Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.


Armpit is a step up from "netherlands," isn't it?
 
2013-02-20 11:16:13 AM

Citrate1007: skullkrusher: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

do people bring hookers in their bags with them?

Pimps move their hookers to whatever city it is in.


hehe probably not
 
2013-02-20 11:16:30 AM

DON.MAC: On of my ancestors left there before 1600. He settled inland of Sherwood Forest so I'm guessing he was running from someone with a navy.  He regained his title as English Lord and two generations later his grandson was Cromwell's right hand man with the whole choppy/choppy with Charles. I would love to know more.


Fascinating! I have a huge thing for UK history, and would be massively interested if someone in my family were that closely involved in major events too.
 
2013-02-20 11:16:52 AM
Written by Nigel Powers?

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-02-20 11:17:40 AM

Onkel Buck: I had a good time in Amsterdam...I think.


Don't believe your friends in such matters.
 
2013-02-20 11:17:45 AM

Where wolf: It's a huge problem in Georgia, specifically the I-75 corridor.


It's a huge problem everywhere in the US. When it isn't the "Asian massage" racket, it's gangs like MS-13 running underage prostitutes and keeping them as slaves because they fear deportation. Our demonization of illegal immigration has an awful lot to do with how these criminals continue their operations. I've often thought a blanket amnesty and green card to anyone who turn's states' evidence on these creeps might help.
 
2013-02-20 11:17:54 AM

CygnusDarius: theflatline: CygnusDarius: Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage

I'd say the majority of the former Soviet satellite-states (with a few notable exceptions) because anything the soviets touched -with their tanks- turned to shiat.

On my end of the world I will submit Caracas in Venezuela or Buena Ventura in Colombia, and 90% of Panama.

If now we're doing this for Latin America, my own country (Mexico) is probably that part of the backside that is not the back, but it's not the ass, either. The utter stupidity of 3/4 of my own government and some of my own people has made me realize I prefer to describe myself as a 'citizen of the world' instead of Mexican, for the most part.


I worked for a Latin American internet marketing company, that had offices in six countries, and occasionally they would need someone to fly out to some random latin country for a client meet and greet, which I did not mind, cause usually I was sent to Buenos Aires.  I was sent often because of the 70 employees, maybe ten of us had american passports, so no visas needed to be secured for us.

They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia.
 
2013-02-20 11:17:58 AM

gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.


The sex trade is illegal in Vegas, and trafficking is actually pretty bad there:   http://www.humantrafficking.org/updates/529
 
2013-02-20 11:18:06 AM

gingerjet: GalFriday: Sex trade isn't legal in Vegas.  It is legal in Nevada, but not within the city limits of Paradise or Las Vegas.

No one has told the prostitutes that since I was hit up by one in a mall within the city limits of Las Vegas just last month.

/she seemed a tad disappointed when I told her I was gay
//she offered me the card of a male prostitute
///I told her I didn't need it - I have grindr


You are telling me there is illegal prostitution in Las Vegas!?!
 
2013-02-20 11:18:21 AM
That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.
 
2013-02-20 11:18:43 AM

Arkanaut: There are two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.


Came for this :)

/will still read the rest of the thread
 
2013-02-20 11:18:57 AM

theflatline: 2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".


As the duly appointed flagbearer for my people I will admit there are people here who seriously think pulling this shiat works. I'm effusively polite and get falling-down drunk in my hotel room to compensate.
 
2013-02-20 11:18:58 AM

Moopy Mac: Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.


And cabdrivers are even a bigger one.
 
2013-02-20 11:20:55 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


Wingnut douchebags are just sad.  Strike three, aaaaand, ignore.
 
2013-02-20 11:21:16 AM

traylor: That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.


I've been on some buses in Europe that would make a high school locker room smell like a rose garden in a Febreze factory
 
2013-02-20 11:21:45 AM

Gosling: The Netherlands is not the armpit of Europe.

Moldova is the armpit of Europe.


I think we have managed to establish in this thread that Europe has more stinking armpits than a redneck family reunion in South Alabama. But as the curate said to the bishop when the bishop said that he was afraid they had given the curate a bad egg, on the contrary, My Lord, bits of it are excellent.

One of my favourite famous  Punch cartoons, ever.
 
2013-02-20 11:21:58 AM

Moopy Mac: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.

I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.


shot while riding bicycle

Why think when you can Google?
 
2013-02-20 11:25:21 AM

Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.


Do they have a subway in amsterdam?

All those canals....
 
2013-02-20 11:26:39 AM
What American hipsters think of Holland: Weed Tulips, Hookers Outlet Malls, perfect Utopia of freedom Christian Reformed Churches. What Holland really looks like: Underage runaways Hipsters, Sex Trafficking Abstenance, Forced prostitution Pickle factory, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe West Michigan.

/fixed
 
2013-02-20 11:26:53 AM

Onkel Buck: traylor: That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.

I've been on some buses in Europe that would make a high school locker room smell like a rose garden in a Febreze factory


Protip: stay in the front half of your bus -- so that you can avoid the smell of the homeless people who are free-riding in the back part of the bus.
 
2013-02-20 11:27:18 AM
HairBolus , I am glad that I am  not the only one here who remembers the National Lampoon.

/Grew up reading that mag.
 
2013-02-20 11:27:25 AM

theflatline: They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia.


Funny enough, my experience with Mexico city was a little different. Sure, I'm not used to the rush of time everyone seems to be used to down there, and then there's the taxi drivers, and the insane bus drivers, not mention of the metro station on rush hour (the smell of armpit and Mexican Salaryman depression is horrible), and everyone seems to want to charge your ridiculous amounts for anything. But, I managed nicely over there, met some cool people, and had the chance to party once or twice down there. Plus, there's them cool sights to see. Working there, however, was/will be an interesting experience. Much more competitive than my native Hermosillo.

By far my worst experience was Belize, but that was because I was stuck in a tourist bus, and even today I still hope to believe that Belize is a nice country, with great people, and lovely vistas, but what they managed to show me in that your bus was utter shiat. The people were nice and friendly, and I tried to avoid playing the tourist card as many times as possible.
 
2013-02-20 11:28:44 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


Oh please, that's a photo of a Libertarian Paulite.
 
2013-02-20 11:29:07 AM

BrynnMacFlynn: DON.MAC: On of my ancestors left there before 1600. He settled inland of Sherwood Forest so I'm guessing he was running from someone with a navy.  He regained his title as English Lord and two generations later his grandson was Cromwell's right hand man with the whole choppy/choppy with Charles. I would love to know more.

Seriously thought you were talking about a Crusader Kings 2 playthrough. If you've never heard of the game, you should check it out.


Oh, man. I downloaded the demo to that game from Steam. That is a lot of micromanagement, but it looks so freaking awesome. One of these days I'm going to have to banish my family from the house so I can sit down and really figure that game out.
 
2013-02-20 11:29:16 AM

Onkel Buck: traylor: That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.

I've been on some buses in Europe that would make a high school locker room smell like a rose garden in a Febreze factory


  I assure you, your local American Grayhound isn't smelling rosy fresh.    I've ridden in buses in every corner of the world, and they all stink.   Buses in general involves people sitting in a stagnant environment and stewing in their own filth for extended amounts of time.     Further, it's a cheap mode of transportation, so it tends to involve people who actually work for a living and bodies at work tend to emit odors.
 
2013-02-20 11:32:33 AM

CygnusDarius: theflatline: They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia.

Funny enough, my experience with Mexico city was a little different. Sure, I'm not used to the rush of time everyone seems to be used to down there, and then there's the taxi drivers, and the insane bus drivers, not mention of the metro station on rush hour (the smell of armpit and Mexican Salaryman depression is horrible), and everyone seems to want to charge your ridiculous amounts for anything. But, I managed nicely over there, met some cool people, and had the chance to party once or twice down there. Plus, there's them cool sights to see. Working there, however, was/will be an interesting experience. Much more competitive than my native Hermosillo.

By far my worst experience was Belize, but that was because I was stuck in a tourist bus, and even today I still hope to believe that Belize is a nice country, with great people, and lovely vistas, but what they managed to show me in that your bus was utter shiat. The people were nice and friendly, and I tried to avoid playing the tourist card as many times as possible.


Same here.   I went to Mexico City expecting a horror show, but ended up having a delightful time.    If you love street food culture, it's right up there with Southeast Asia.
 
2013-02-20 11:32:47 AM

neversubmit: Moopy Mac: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.

I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.

shot while riding bicycle

Why think when you can Google?


Wow, 8 articles about one shooting in West Palm Beach. A shooting that took place at 12:45pm and not at 3am.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. That it is dangerous to ride your bike in most/all of the USA because....
 
2013-02-20 11:33:07 AM
The Dutch have gone downhill ever since they conquered England.
 
2013-02-20 11:33:09 AM

CygnusDarius: theflatline: They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia.

Funny enough, my experience with Mexico city was a little different. Sure, I'm not used to the rush of time everyone seems to be used to down there, and then there's the taxi drivers, and the insane bus drivers, not mention of the metro station on rush hour (the smell of armpit and Mexican Salaryman depression is horrible), and everyone seems to want to charge your ridiculous amounts for anything. But, I managed nicely over there, met some cool people, and had the chance to party once or twice down there. Plus, there's them cool sights to see. Working there, however, was/will be an interesting experience. Much more competitive than my native Hermosillo.

By far my worst experience was Belize, but that was because I was stuck in a tourist bus, and even today I still hope to believe that Belize is a nice country, with great people, and lovely vistas, but what they managed to show me in that your bus was utter shiat. The people were nice and friendly, and I tried to avoid playing the tourist card as many times as possible.


Yeah, Bogota used to be like that, until they had a mayor who passed some law that if you were a public facing employee you had to to to charm school, and have a certificate from it.  But in my experience most of latin america will always having some smiling jackass trying to strong arm you out of a few pesos.

My shining point of the trip, was that I got to meet Julieta Vinegas, and she really is that hot in person, and was a sweetheart.  I lost all command of english and spanish.
 
2013-02-20 11:34:46 AM

tonguedepressor: I thought Kolkata (Calcutta) was the armpit of Europe? Or maybe it was the asshole..


It would be both, if it were in Europe.
 
2013-02-20 11:34:50 AM

Moopy Mac: gingerjet: GalFriday: Sex trade isn't legal in Vegas.  It is legal in Nevada, but not within the city limits of Paradise or Las Vegas.

No one has told the prostitutes that since I was hit up by one in a mall within the city limits of Las Vegas just last month.

/she seemed a tad disappointed when I told her I was gay
//she offered me the card of a male prostitute
///I told her I didn't need it - I have grindr

You are telling me there is illegal prostitution in Las Vegas!?!


That is what I heard.  I wouldn't know for sure, but I read about it on the internet.
 
2013-02-20 11:34:54 AM

neversubmit: Moopy Mac: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.

I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.

shot while riding bicycle

Why think when you can Google?


No really, what point of mine were you trying to refute?
 
2013-02-20 11:36:43 AM
I stuck my finger in a dyke in Holland.
 
2013-02-20 11:37:09 AM

maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.


Albania is worst.
 
2013-02-20 11:37:50 AM
Remember, paying for sex is illegal... Unless you're filming it for later distribution.
 
2013-02-20 11:38:22 AM
**Off Topic**
In the topic lists, the ones with the "Buzzfeed" headlines have no comment links on the right side.  What's that all about?
 
2013-02-20 11:38:42 AM

dopekitty74: Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.

Do they have a subway in amsterdam?

All those canals....


They are above ground trams.

Volgende halten: De Dam

/Reclame de tram dat werk
 
2013-02-20 11:39:59 AM
B...bu.....but Socialist Paradise!
 
2013-02-20 11:40:57 AM

Kitten_Pryde: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: At least all those windmills will keep them cool.

WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!


A Dutch treat is no treat at all when the bill comes due.

Dutch courage refers to drunken bravery.

So clearly, Dutch windmills are big blower things that cool off the drunk, penny-pinching Dutch.
 
2013-02-20 11:42:33 AM
i.imgur.com

Being about 25% Muslim, how liberal do you think the city will be in another 20 years? At that rate of growth, it won't belong until they have a majority in Amsterdam.

I for one...
 
2013-02-20 11:43:18 AM

InmanRoshi: Same here.   I went to Mexico City expecting a horror show, but ended up having a delightful time.    If you love street food culture, it's right up there with Southeast Asia.


Haven't been to SE Asia, but, the best noodles (ramen, to exact) I've had so far have been in Mexico City.

theflatline: Yeah, Bogota used to be like that, until they had a mayor who passed some law that if you were a public facing employee you had to to to charm school, and have a certificate from it.  But in my experience most of latin america will always having some smiling jackass trying to strong arm you out of a few pesos.

My shining point of the trip, was that I got to meet Julieta Vinegas, and she really is that hot in person, and was a sweetheart.  I lost all command of english and spanish.


I guess it's one of the things you get used to and avoid, since you instantly know the signs. My older brother went to Prague with his girlfriend, and he said he felt like home because the cops behaved like the cops here. Also, he could tell which guys were pushing drugs/thieves/gang members. He's a doctor, btw.

Aaand  I never got the chance to meet a celebrity. Well, maybe a famous (sort of) architect, but that's about it.
 
2013-02-20 11:43:21 AM

RidgeRacerZX6: Their cops really are more public servant than enforcer. I remember once we were visiting my bother in law in some college town up north were they had a real problem with jay walkers and people disregarding the ped crossings at intersections. So the cops disabled all the crossing lights until the populace beg the police to turn them back on and promised to be good little pedestrians.


Huh.  I would think that only the law-abiding citizens would beg.
 
2013-02-20 11:43:23 AM

Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.


I first read that as Alabama. Meh, still works, kind of.
 
2013-02-20 11:44:44 AM

monoski: I have been to Holland and really found the people to live there to be awesome. There is a seedy district in Amsterdam where it seems most of the bad stuff is limited to but that is like any other major city in the US or Europe.


Even the seedy district isn't bad. I've been approached to buy blow at night by black South Africans, and never felt the kind of fear I get when I'm in a shiatty part of my hometown around a bunch of drunks and tweakers. Over there, it seems like everyone's in a jolly mood - it is the richest city in Europe, after all, and there's always more tourists to fleece without needing to get violent. In particular, the Roma don't seem to have much of a presence. If trafficking was as bad as stated, you'd expect other violent crimes to be up too, since they go hand in hand.

/Copenhagen was a very different story. Doesn't help that I've seen the Pusher trilogy, of course.
 
2013-02-20 11:44:52 AM

neversubmit: shot while riding bicycle

Why think when you can Google?


8 out of the first 10 are in south Florida. My 'vast majority' comment still stands.
 
2013-02-20 11:45:16 AM
Overstatement by a radical feminist is the best kind of overstatement.
 
2013-02-20 11:45:29 AM
"What American hipsters think of Holland Amsterdam: Weed, Hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe"

FTFY, subby.

/lived in Landgraaf for three years.  An amazing country that I'd go back to in a heartbeat.
 
2013-02-20 11:45:40 AM

dopekitty74: Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.

Do they have a subway in amsterdam?

All those canals....


Yes.
 
2013-02-20 11:46:20 AM

skullkrusher: I remember when "hipster" used to mean something

/also, before it was cool



Campbell's
Cream of Hipster
Soup
Eat it before it's cool
 
2013-02-20 11:46:31 AM

Combustion: SpectroBoy: I have been to Amsterdam multiple times. I thought it was nice. The people were nice, the food was good, the city was friendly in general.


You sure you were really there?????

Lovely, lovely place. Lovely people. Terrible food.

I sound fat...


I came back from there with an addiction to pine nuts and salmon, I'll tell you that much.
 
2013-02-20 11:46:49 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: At least all those windmills will keep them cool.


Hello set up for a Morbo the News Monster quote.
 
2013-02-20 11:49:21 AM

Bryntryst: "What American hipsters think of Holland Amsterdam: Weed, Hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe"

FTFY, subby.

/lived in Landgraaf for three years.  An amazing country that I'd go back to in a heartbeat.


I literally thought the whole of Holland was Amsterdam.  I once got of the train in Rotterdam, thinking it was Amsterdam (because of the Zig Zag adverts)  and walked around for quite a while with the map of Amsterdam trying to get my bearings.
 
2013-02-20 11:49:54 AM

Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....


So that cancels out all of the Holland-fail? Thanks for clearing that up.
 
2013-02-20 11:50:08 AM

doublesecretprobation: human trafficking happens EVERYWHERE, not just in places with legalized prostitution.


MSNBC did a documentary called "Sex Slaves In America". Apparently Texas is pretty bad for this sort of thing. According to the documentary there are scores of "cantinas" that are really whorehouses filled with women & underage girls kidnapped from Mexico & elsewhere and forced into prostitution.

They also exposed brothels in New York, Minneapolis, and other cities. It really is pretty much everywhere.

Most guys looking for a good time with a hooker are oblivious to the fact that it could be some girl abducted or lured to the U.S. with the false promise of a legit job and then enslaved. The guys who do this kind of thing know where the girls are from & threaten to kill their families if they leave or go to authorities. One 16 year old American girl went to her friend's house and her friend turned out to be a prostitute. The prostitute's pimp was posing as her dad, and they abducted the girl, tied her to a grungy bed in an abandoned house and rented her out to a string of men who raped and beat her. Hellish, horrible stuff.   Though she was lucky enough to get away, she can't stand be around any man, even her own dad, without her mom around.

If you haven't seen the MSNBC documentaries, (there are two of them) they're enlightening, but very sad to see what happens to these girls in our own backyard.
 
2013-02-20 11:50:10 AM

calm like a bomb: tonguedepressor: I thought Kolkata (Calcutta) was the armpit of Europe? Or maybe it was the asshole..

It would be both, if it were in Europe.


Geology was never my forte.
 
2013-02-20 11:50:44 AM

skullkrusher: Citrate1007: skullkrusher: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

do people bring hookers in their bags with them?

Pimps move their hookers to whatever city it is in.

hehe probably not


Many hookers and strippers are migratory workers.
 
2013-02-20 11:51:19 AM

schoolbread: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

So that cancels out all of the Holland-fail? Thanks for clearing that up.


No, he is saying that the Superbowl should be held in Holland.
 
2013-02-20 11:51:22 AM

Moopy Mac: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.

I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.


My point is obviously not all of the US, sorry I mistyped... but try telling a girl in her mid-20s in the city center of a US city that is ~1 million people to bike/walk home at 3am by herself (ie, what Amsterdam is size-wise).  I really don't know many who will take you up on that offer at all.

Here, though, perfectly fine thing to do and I've never felt threatened.  And trust me, I've been all over this city at odd hours.
 
2013-02-20 11:52:19 AM
After living in Holland for a couple of years, courtesy of Uncle Sugar, I just want to say it was a very nice place. Not perfect, but nowhere on the planet is.

/Banana Bar...
 
2013-02-20 11:52:24 AM

CygnusDarius: InmanRoshi: Same here.   I went to Mexico City expecting a horror show, but ended up having a delightful time.    If you love street food culture, it's right up there with Southeast Asia.

Haven't been to SE Asia, but, the best noodles (ramen, to exact) I've had so far have been in Mexico City.

theflatline: Yeah, Bogota used to be like that, until they had a mayor who passed some law that if you were a public facing employee you had to to to charm school, and have a certificate from it.  But in my experience most of latin america will always having some smiling jackass trying to strong arm you out of a few pesos.

My shining point of the trip, was that I got to meet Julieta Vinegas, and she really is that hot in person, and was a sweetheart.  I lost all command of english and spanish.

I guess it's one of the things you get used to and avoid, since you instantly know the signs. My older brother went to Prague with his girlfriend, and he said he felt like home because the cops behaved like the cops here. Also, he could tell which guys were pushing drugs/thieves/gang members. He's a doctor, btw.

Aaand  I never got the chance to meet a celebrity. Well, maybe a famous (sort of) architect, but that's about it.


I had this idea in Colombia that I was going to bring in about 1000 State Troopers on an exchange program, cops that actually did their job, as an example to Colombian police.

I am from New Orleans originally, so hard to find a place that feels like south louisiana, but I could easily hang my hat in Medellin, a very organized place as far as latin america goes, an gorgeous women, nice people, and it is 70 degrees year around.

In Colombia if you have a tie on every calls you "doctor!"
 
2013-02-20 11:53:35 AM

BarkingUnicorn: skullkrusher: Citrate1007: skullkrusher: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

do people bring hookers in their bags with them?

Pimps move their hookers to whatever city it is in.

hehe probably not

Many hookers and strippers are migratory workers.


Now read that bit you wrote with Jacques Cousteau's voice.
 
2013-02-20 11:54:22 AM

theflatline: The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.


Oh, man. Story time...

I was traveling in Croatia with an Austrian buddy. We spent a few days at the amazing Plitvice Lakes. It's a place of natural beauty, a series of waterfalls feeding bright blue lakes which cascade into one another, surrounded by trails. A photographer's paradise. We decided to take a boat ride across the biggest lake. On the boat was the captain, me, my buddy and about twelve Isrealis. As we began quietly slipping across this unearthly blue lake, an Israeli woman in the group started to yell in Hebrew. Then she stood up and yelled louder. Several men started yelling back at her. Then things escalated. Within a minute, all the Israelis were screaming at each other and at this woman. I had had enough. Neither me nor my buddy speaks Hebrew, but from what we could gather they were arguing about what to eat for lunch.

It was then that my buddy boomed out in clear German to "Sit the fark down and shut the fark up so we can enjoy this damn boat ride." The Israeli woman sat down, and there was quiet. For about one minute. Then it all picked up again. About lunch. In English, I conferred with my buddy. We didn't want to seem like Germans (I'm an American, but appearances and all that) telling Jews what to do, so we should just write off the boat ride as a FAIL and do our best to avoid these people for the rest of the day.

The rest of the day, we could hear their voices and ambled in the opposite direction. What a bunch of jackasses! Granted, I don't view all Israelis like this, and I've seen some truly embarrassing behavior from fellow Americans overseas. But ever since then, the "generalization" section of my brain has a low opinion of Israeli tourists. And Chinese tourists. But not the Dutch.
 
2013-02-20 11:56:18 AM
Well my friend did get his hat stolen at gunpoint in the red light district late at night the first time I was there. I would still move there in a second if I could find a job, that place is awesome and even though he got robbed I didn't really feel unsafe at all.
 
2013-02-20 11:57:13 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


I think you clicked on the wrong thread.  You must have meant to go to the "whiney ass biatch Republicans with nothing better to do than cry about Obama" thread.
 
2013-02-20 11:58:53 AM

doglover: I'm pretty sure you can find sex slaves in America. Underage hookers as well. Not to mention the gun violence. Europe's not much better. And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.

Glass houses, etc.


To be fair, it is the two world wars that Germany started that fueled the US's glass house...
 
2013-02-20 12:00:33 PM

CygnusDarius: BarkingUnicorn: skullkrusher: Citrate1007: skullkrusher: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

do people bring hookers in their bags with them?

Pimps move their hookers to whatever city it is in.

hehe probably not

Many hookers and strippers are migratory workers.

Now read that bit you wrote with Jacques Cousteau's voice.


Ok Sealab 2021 on the Dutch  http://video.adultswim.com/sealab-2021/a-shot-of-dutch-courage.html

and on Jaque Cousteau   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WixMBWVKJ6Q
 
2013-02-20 12:01:02 PM
Alright! I'm going to get me some under age runaway booty.
 
2013-02-20 12:02:04 PM

uber humper: Bryntryst: "What American hipsters think of Holland Amsterdam: Weed, Hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe"

FTFY, subby.

/lived in Landgraaf for three years.  An amazing country that I'd go back to in a heartbeat.

I literally thought the whole of Holland was Amsterdam.  I once got of the train in Rotterdam, thinking it was Amsterdam (because of the Zig Zag adverts)  and walked around for quite a while with the map of Amsterdam trying to get my bearings.


The country is the Netherlands, made up of 13 provinces which include North and South Holland. Amsterdam's in North Holland, The Hague and Rotterdam are South Holland.
 
2013-02-20 12:02:18 PM

TheLopper: I spent some time in Amsterdam in the 90s. I thought it was very pretty and the people were very nice. Though I didn't purchase any fresh human-trafficked underage prostitutes. It wasn't in the brochure.


One of the most scared I have been in all my travels through first and third worlds is standing in front of the train station in Amsterdam.  Truly a hive of scum and villany.
 
2013-02-20 12:04:11 PM

InmanRoshi: Onkel Buck: traylor: That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.

I've been on some buses in Europe that would make a high school locker room smell like a rose garden in a Febreze factory

  I assure you, your local American Grayhound isn't smelling rosy fresh.    I've ridden in buses in every corner of the world, and they all stink.   Buses in general involves people sitting in a stagnant environment and stewing in their own filth for extended amounts of time.     Further, it's a cheap mode of transportation, so it tends to involve people who actually work for a living and bodies at work tend to emit odors.

i26.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-20 12:04:29 PM

gingerjet: GalFriday: Sex trade isn't legal in Vegas.  It is legal in Nevada, but not within the city limits of Paradise or Las Vegas.

No one has told the prostitutes that since I was hit up by one in a mall within the city limits of Las Vegas just last month.

/she seemed a tad disappointed when I told her I was gay
//she offered me the card of a male prostitute
///I told her I didn't need it - I have grindr


Does grindr work for the straights?  Seriously.
 
2013-02-20 12:06:00 PM
Firstly this is The Spectator, which is right of centre and has an interest in presenting the issue this way.
That said the argument here is for legalisation and regulation not decriminalisation then leave it the hell alone - that just frees up the evil scum to shiat on innocents even more just without the risk of any police intervention. And there is a blind side to the Dutch pragmatism in that they don't think seem to think through all the consequences - us Brits are the same too, I'm not criticising them. They're good people.
So the problem, like many here in the UK is one of enforcement - or lack thereof. My impression of Dutch cops is that they're like British ones, nice, friendly and a bit ineffectual.
 
2013-02-20 12:06:32 PM
I visited Amsterdam a couple years ago with a friend.  Most of the prostitutes in windows appeared to be eastern European or African.  Most of the guards and pimps appeared to be Russian.  My friend noted that it was a huge change from when they were there a decade before, when most of the women were Dutch and the pimps were less visible.

Sounds as if the Dutch authorities simply failed to enforce the laws they had on the books, which resulted in an uptick in tax evasion, undocumented/ineligible workers, assaults and organized crime.  So instead of spending the time and effort to clean up the system, they're going to try and shut the whole thing down.  As if that is going to work.

It might be against EU law, but the first thing I'd do is prohibit any workers who weren't born in the Netherlands.  It would help reduce human trafficking from third world and corrupt nations.  It would also help stop workers using forged identity documentation (easier to check your country's own birth certificates than to verify something from Russia).
 
2013-02-20 12:07:07 PM

dersk: uber humper: Bryntryst: "What American hipsters think of Holland Amsterdam: Weed, Hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe"

FTFY, subby.

/lived in Landgraaf for three years.  An amazing country that I'd go back to in a heartbeat.

I literally thought the whole of Holland was Amsterdam.  I once got of the train in Rotterdam, thinking it was Amsterdam (because of the Zig Zag adverts)  and walked around for quite a while with the map of Amsterdam trying to get my bearings.

The country is the Netherlands, made up of 13 provinces which include North and South Holland. Amsterdam's in North Holland, The Hague and Rotterdam are South Holland.


I realize that, I was 20 y/o and very dumb.

But to be fair, The Netherlands is about the size of Connecticut -- North/South, what's the difference.
 
2013-02-20 12:08:23 PM

doczoidberg: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


I just glanced at your profile.

You seem a bit obsessed with something.


Oh man, that is so Grade A derp. Makes Glenn Beck look sane. WOW
 
2013-02-20 12:10:17 PM

dk47: TheLopper: I spent some time in Amsterdam in the 90s. I thought it was very pretty and the people were very nice. Though I didn't purchase any fresh human-trafficked underage prostitutes. It wasn't in the brochure.

One of the most scared I have been in all my travels through first and third worlds is standing in front of the train station in Amsterdam.  Truly a hive of scum and villany.


You must scare really easily.
 
2013-02-20 12:10:22 PM

NateGrey: doczoidberg: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


I just glanced at your profile.

You seem a bit obsessed with something.

Oh man, that is so Grade A derp. Makes Glenn Beck look sane. WOW


Nothing makes Glenn Beck look sane. Except maybe serial killers.
 
2013-02-20 12:11:29 PM
Holland is not The Netherlands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc
 
2013-02-20 12:12:24 PM

FauxReal: Remember, paying for sex is illegal... Unless you're filming it for later distribution.


ahhh/..... but you cant actually be one of the stars if you are the one paying
 
2013-02-20 12:13:09 PM

scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.


Weird we had good experiences with other Americans while over there, it was Brits and Canadians who were issues. Almost got in a fight with Canadian douches after oogling the GFs cleavage and trying to whisper lewd comments while drunk.

Oh we also loved Paris, we are strange Americans I guess..
.
 
2013-02-20 12:13:18 PM

uber humper: dersk: uber humper: Bryntryst: "What American hipsters think of Holland Amsterdam: Weed, Hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe"

FTFY, subby.

/lived in Landgraaf for three years.  An amazing country that I'd go back to in a heartbeat.

I literally thought the whole of Holland was Amsterdam.  I once got of the train in Rotterdam, thinking it was Amsterdam (because of the Zig Zag adverts)  and walked around for quite a while with the map of Amsterdam trying to get my bearings.

The country is the Netherlands, made up of 13 provinces which include North and South Holland. Amsterdam's in North Holland, The Hague and Rotterdam are South Holland.

I realize that, I was 20 y/o and very dumb.

But to be fair, The Netherlands is about the size of Connecticut -- North/South, what's the difference.


And, to be fair, the Dutch quite often refer to the country in English as Holland. The size of the country is one of the great things - you travel a lot further in smaller distances.
 
2013-02-20 12:14:30 PM

theflatline: scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.

The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".


I would have to agree with you there. I notice more Canadians doing silly stuff when I travel than Americans... However, I do disagree with your contention that everytime they do something assholeish, the say they are Canadian... We have learned to just blame it on you Americans. No one outside North America can really tell the difference!
 
2013-02-20 12:15:29 PM

Fritriac: TFA: "You've reached your limit of free Spectator articles for this month"


Me too, which is BS. I never read the Spectator.
 
2013-02-20 12:17:48 PM

dk47: TheLopper: I spent some time in Amsterdam in the 90s. I thought it was very pretty and the people were very nice. Though I didn't purchase any fresh human-trafficked underage prostitutes. It wasn't in the brochure.

One of the most scared I have been in all my travels through first and third worlds is standing in front of the train station in Amsterdam.  Truly a hive of scum and villany.


You see, I find this fascinating because I've heard this from many people, and they must have really cleaned up the train station area in the past few years because it's always been perfectly fine and neat with a couple cops around.  And I go through there every day when it's raining because I'm not Dutch enough to cycle to work in the rain, so it comes out to quite often.
 
2013-02-20 12:17:56 PM

Andromeda: More local beers in the most beautiful city in the world for us!


Can you still buy it in a movie theater?

/in a glass?
 
2013-02-20 12:18:15 PM

Dinjiin: It might be against EU law, but the first thing I'd do is prohibit any workers who weren't born in the Netherlands.


Why do you hate immigrants? They're just doing jobs Dutch citizens don't want to do!
 
2013-02-20 12:18:43 PM
Late to the party, has anyone mentioned, "Well the world needs Dutch diggers too!"?
 
2013-02-20 12:19:52 PM

MBooda: Andromeda: More local beers in the most beautiful city in the world for us!

Can you still buy it in a movie theater?

/in a glass?


Glass bottle.  Does that count?
 
2013-02-20 12:21:06 PM

steamingpile: scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.

Weird we had good experiences with other Americans while over there, it was Brits and Canadians who were issues. Almost got in a fight with Canadian douches after oogling the GFs cleavage and trying to whisper lewd comments while drunk.

Oh we also loved Paris, we are strange Americans I guess..
.


I was sitting in a bar with my wife after we had go to dinner, and she was all dolled up and these two Canadians were talking loudly in english "dude that biatch is hot, man i would love to fark that, and did you see her perky titties, i am so gonna make a move on that."

When I said loudly in English "ahem, thanks for the compliments boys, but last time I checked I speak English, and that a wedding ring is a wedding ring in any country."

They moved on but had the unfortunate luck that the next girls guy was a member of the IDF on leave...
 
2013-02-20 12:21:14 PM

InmanRoshi: andersoncouncil42: I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.

Yeah, Ugly American article written by an Ugly American magazine written for an  Ugly American audience who believe a night at On the Border for fajitas and margaritas constitutes experiencing an exotic culture.


Yeah, The Spectator is a British magazine. I had never heard of it before but could tell it was written by a British person by the language used, in the US a prostitute's costumer is a "John" this man refers to them as "punters." Also a simple google search shows they proudly refer to themselves as the longest running magazine in the UK.

Irrationally hate Americans much?
 
2013-02-20 12:22:57 PM

ghostwind: theflatline: scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.

The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".

I would have to agree with you there. I notice more Canadians doing silly stuff when I travel than Americans... However, I do disagree with your contention that everytime they do something assholeish, the say they are Canadian... We have learned to just blame it on you Americans. No one outside North America can really tell the difference!


I have traveled as a backpacker to 50+ countries over the years, and the most curious thing for me was how in many countries people would ask first if I was a Canadian.  I'd say no, American, and ask if they were more common, and the answer was always universally "no, but the Canadians throw such hissy fits if we mistake them that it's better to assume everyone is one because Americans are nice and don't offend easily."

But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag, nor an American who had an urge to sew a Canadian one despite Canadians' insistence that this happens.  What can you do, eh?
 
2013-02-20 12:23:08 PM

doglover: I'm pretty sure you can find sex slaves in America. Underage hookers as well. Not to mention the gun violence. Europe's not much better. And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.

Glass houses, etc.


80% of Germans are under age 65, meaning they were born after the last world war. I think it's fair to give them a pass on fueling the two largest wars in history.
 
2013-02-20 12:26:12 PM

doczoidberg: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


I just glanced at your profile.

You seem a bit obsessed with something.



Self-loathing is a terrible thing.
 
2013-02-20 12:26:59 PM

Andromeda: dk47: TheLopper: I spent some time in Amsterdam in the 90s. I thought it was very pretty and the people were very nice. Though I didn't purchase any fresh human-trafficked underage prostitutes. It wasn't in the brochure.

One of the most scared I have been in all my travels through first and third worlds is standing in front of the train station in Amsterdam.  Truly a hive of scum and villany.

You see, I find this fascinating because I've heard this from many people, and they must have really cleaned up the train station area in the past few years because it's always been perfectly fine and neat with a couple cops around.  And I go through there every day when it's raining because I'm not Dutch enough to cycle to work in the rain, so it comes out to quite often.


It's not paritcularly different than it was when I moved here in '94. I think maybe it's people who fly into Schiphol and take the train, so it's their first actual step in Europe? I mean, there used to be some junkies hanging around, but they weren't aggressive at all. Back in the 80s, they used to have problems with hotel touts and that sort of thing, but nowhere near as sketchy as plenty of other stations I've been in.
 
2013-02-20 12:27:07 PM

Andromeda: ghostwind: theflatline: scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.

The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".

I would have to agree with you there. I notice more Canadians doing silly stuff when I travel than Americans... However, I do disagree with your contention that everytime they do something assholeish, the say they are Canadian... We have learned to just blame it on you Americans. No one outside North America can really tell the difference!

I have traveled as a backpacker to 50+ countries over the years, and the most curious thing for me was how in many countries people would ask first if I was a Canadian.  I'd say no, American, and ask if they were more common, and the answer was always universally "no, but the Canadians throw such hissy fits if we mistake them that it's better to assume everyone is one because Americans are nice and don't offend easily."

But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag, nor an American who had an urge to sew a Canadian one despite Canadians' insistence that this happens.  What can you do, eh?


At last Americans and Canadians agreeing with me.  I have a buddy who has owned a little jazz bar in Colombia for 20 years, and he says most of his bar fights have been due to Canucks.
 
2013-02-20 12:28:38 PM

Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.


Technically you are correct. But in reality, it is not enforced to the degree it is in other cities. You know what the difference is between a stripper and a hooker in Vegas? Money and whether or not you want to end the night with blue balls.
 
2013-02-20 12:29:26 PM

CitizenTed: . But ever since then, the "generalization" section of my brain has a low opinion of Israeli tourists. And Chinese tourists. But not the Dutch.


For me it's Germans.  I went on my honeymoon in Tunisia, and the resort was popular with Germans for some reason.  They would sneak down en masse at 6am and lay towels on most of the beach chairs, which I guess is Teutonic code for "Ja, mein herr, zis cher est mine for ze whole day!".  And then at 5pm, some sort of bell rang and they all bolted for the buffet and massacred all the good items.  Never again if I can avoid it.
 
2013-02-20 12:31:06 PM

Cymbal: Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.

Technically you are correct. But in reality, it is not enforced to the degree it is in other cities. You know what the difference is between a stripper and a hooker in Vegas? Money and whether or not you want to end the night with blue balls.


To be honest, I don't know where you'd look for street hookers in Amsterdam - I can't recall ever seeing any (I think Rotterdam has more of them). I know where the three red light districts are, though.
 
2013-02-20 12:32:01 PM

Snarfangel: schoolbread: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

So that cancels out all of the Holland-fail? Thanks for clearing that up.

No, he is saying that the Superbowl should be held in Holland.


Or Vegas.
 
2013-02-20 12:32:09 PM

SpectroBoy: the food was good


SRSLY????

I have eaten many a meal with quite a few Dutch-Canadian families.
They murder food!
Their cuisine is right on par with Scottish cuisine; based on a dare!
*shuddering at the memories*


/RIP Sandy
 
2013-02-20 12:33:32 PM

poot42: SpectroBoy: the food was good

SRSLY????

I have eaten many a meal with quite a few Dutch-Canadian families.
They murder food!
Their cuisine is right on par with Scottish cuisine; based on a dare!
*shuddering at the memories*

/RIP Sandy


Here in Amsterdam, anyway, you can find great food. Real Dutch food is farmer food, but Amsterdam is over 50% immigrant or first generation, so you get lots of good stuff.
 
2013-02-20 12:34:09 PM

theflatline: 1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.
2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".
3. Spaniards - they think everyone in latin america are inferior creatures but love banging the women there.


Number 1 is spot on.
 
2013-02-20 12:35:32 PM

gilgigamesh: Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.

Perhaps.  The article is pretty light on facts.

The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.


The problem isn't for the Dutch girls, they're fine. The problem is with the African and Asian girls who come to the Netherlands through human trafficing. They're there illegal, and in debt to the people who got them there. Their families might be in jeopardy back at home as well.

But for the Dutch girls, yeah, that's all nice and cosy for them.
 
2013-02-20 12:35:38 PM
I have been to Holland 3 or 4 times for work.  It's somewhat nice, the people are somewhat nice too (mixed bad like the US).  I only went to Amsterdam twice and it seemed like any other big city, except for all the damn bikes.
 
2013-02-20 12:36:46 PM
No, submitter is wrong. Prostitution is awesome. Empowering for women and convenient for men.

I know the hookers I see always look really empowered. You can tell by the way they stand around and then lean over while talking to people in cars.
 
2013-02-20 12:37:04 PM

dersk: poot42: SpectroBoy: the food was good

SRSLY????

I have eaten many a meal with quite a few Dutch-Canadian families.
They murder food!
Their cuisine is right on par with Scottish cuisine; based on a dare!
*shuddering at the memories*

/RIP Sandy

Here in Amsterdam, anyway, you can find great food. Real Dutch food is farmer food, but Amsterdam is over 50% immigrant or first generation, so you get lots of good stuff.


Totally agree.  I mean my university canteen (ie cafeteria) is godawful and makes me cry so I bring in my lunch every day, but tonight I'm contemplating if I want sushi or authentic Hungarian goulash for my takeaway food.  You can certainly eat better international cuisine here than many other places.
 
2013-02-20 12:37:46 PM
brantgoose: H31N0US: I have fallen behind. Which side of the aisle bankrolls The Spectator?

Any hoo, like the neo-cons, the people who write for and read The Spectator are further to the right than The American Spectator.


stevetherobot:I looked up the author and she's a lesbian feminist who believes marriage should be abolished. That doesn't sound very far right.All depends where you are on the polictical spectrum dunnit? If you were far enough to the left you might find lesbians intrinsically reactionary. Mind you some extreme leftists are so bigoted and intolerant they're indistinguishable from nazis, but there you go.
 
2013-02-20 12:38:37 PM

dersk: Andromeda: dk47: TheLopper: I spent some time in Amsterdam in the 90s. I thought it was very pretty and the people were very nice. Though I didn't purchase any fresh human-trafficked underage prostitutes. It wasn't in the brochure.

One of the most scared I have been in all my travels through first and third worlds is standing in front of the train station in Amsterdam.  Truly a hive of scum and villany.

You see, I find this fascinating because I've heard this from many people, and they must have really cleaned up the train station area in the past few years because it's always been perfectly fine and neat with a couple cops around.  And I go through there every day when it's raining because I'm not Dutch enough to cycle to work in the rain, so it comes out to quite often.

It's not paritcularly different than it was when I moved here in '94. I think maybe it's people who fly into Schiphol and take the train, so it's their first actual step in Europe? I mean, there used to be some junkies hanging around, but they weren't aggressive at all. Back in the 80s, they used to have problems with hotel touts and that sort of thing, but nowhere near as sketchy as plenty of other stations I've been in.


Well this theory doesn't apply to me.  I just remember a ton of sketchy people hanging around and getting accosted.  I usually don't feel as completely and totally a mark as I did then.  Maybe it was the reefer.
 
2013-02-20 12:42:19 PM

doczoidberg: clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


I just glanced at your profile.

You seem a bit obsessed with something.


He/she/it should just replace their entire profile with this:
img717.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-20 12:42:21 PM
My boss and I took a walking tour of the Red Light District (just walking, mind you) that was given by a former prostitute. Several salient points- after doing the math, each window hooker has to have about 25 clients per 10 hour shift to pay rent and be profitable. There is also no mandatory VD testing. The guide explained that being sick was 'bad for business' and that clients can tell when the hooker is diseased. All morality aside, there is no way I'd ever use their services.

Outside of the Red Light District I found Amsterdam to be pleasant and clean. I hate the damn bikes there though.
 
2013-02-20 12:43:59 PM

Father_Jack: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

that would be the anus.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria

What would you call Transnistria?
 
2013-02-20 12:46:50 PM

gilgigamesh: Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.

Perhaps.  The article is pretty light on facts.

The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.


Prostitution isn't  legal in Vegas.
 
2013-02-20 12:50:07 PM

BarkingUnicorn: RidgeRacerZX6: Their cops really are more public servant than enforcer. I remember once we were visiting my bother in law in some college town up north were they had a real problem with jay walkers and people disregarding the ped crossings at intersections. So the cops disabled all the crossing lights until the populace beg the police to turn them back on and promised to be good little pedestrians.

Huh.  I would think that only the law-abiding citizens would beg.


I think it became kind of a peer pressure thing where those who wanted the lights started calling out and shaming the jay walkers at intersections instead of ignoring them.
 
2013-02-20 12:52:07 PM
The Six Flags in Holland is awesome
 
2013-02-20 12:54:34 PM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


By the way, your first example of "feminized America" in your profile is Canadian...


And you forgot to add this to your profile too!

www.wildplanetfoods.com
 
2013-02-20 12:57:03 PM
I though the Netherlands were lovely. There were no more junkies/hookers/problems there than I have seen elsewhere.
 
2013-02-20 12:59:03 PM

Heron: Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.

Those opposed to legalized prostitution have always made their case by making unrealistic, sensational claims about it, and they're still doing that now. As actual academic studies show, most prostitution -even in the US where it's "illegal"- is consensual, pimpless, and typically a phase-of-life activity (meaning young people enter prostitution for extra money or curiosity, then leave it after a few years). Also noticeable in this article is the entire lack of any discussion of male-male homosexual prostitution which, again as academic studies consistently show, absolutely dwarfs the female-male side of the business. While trafficking and pimps do exist, they are a small part of sex-work, and one you can much more easily fight by bringing the industry out into the open and enforcing abuse/labor protection laws against those who assault and rip off prostitutes than by driving the entire industry back into the shadows.


I often wondered why a female prostitute would take on a pimp...especially after listening to Snoop Dogg on Howard Stern talk about the life*.  I guess I assumed that a pimp would scare a pimp-less girl into coming in under him by saying something akin to: "This is a nice store you got here.  It would be a shame for something to happen to it."

Since it sounds like you've done some reading on the subject that was supported by data and facts, perhaps you could enlighten me a bit?

*I'm aware that Snoop is a sensationalist but I have to assume that to a degree, he is telling the truth.
 
2013-02-20 12:59:19 PM

CheatCommando: Vodka Zombie: Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.

In other words, wonderful place unless you are a typical American.


I don't think the typical American spends much time hating other nations for the language they speak. People seem to vastly overestimate the global consciousness of the average American. I think Americans spend a lot more time hating each other than say a random European country. Also, the US is a very large country that is both geographically and culturally diverse, sweeping statements about the average American always seem a bit silly. I am not a rah-rah USA type of person at all, but I find other nationalities often have this weird composite view of the "average American" that makes no sense.

Anyhow, my sister married a Dutchman and lives in Eindhoven quite happily. I hope to visit soon.
 
2013-02-20 01:00:16 PM
 
2013-02-20 01:03:33 PM

clane: doczoidberg:

I just glanced at your profile.

You seem a bit obsessed with something.

clane:
OMG, LMAO, your brilliant!


Anyone got some eye bleach? I just looked at clane's profile too. Is that what a troll's home looks like? Sort of like neo-con contemporary.
 
2013-02-20 01:04:03 PM

theflatline: They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia


The wife did summer abroad for Law School in Mexico City she loved it. But then and again she is over 40 and not looking for Donkey shows or someones Seester
 
2013-02-20 01:04:38 PM

spawn73: Father_Jack: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

that would be the anus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria

What would you call Transnistria?


Perineum
 
2013-02-20 01:05:44 PM

Azlefty: theflatline: They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia

The wife did summer abroad for Law School in Mexico City she loved it. But then and again she is over 40 and not looking for Donkey shows or someones Seester


That's planet Tijuana.

/I call it planet Tijuana because whatever happens to the rest of Mexico, Tijuana is going through the exact opposite
 
2013-02-20 01:07:48 PM

theflatline: Andromeda: ghostwind: theflatline: scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.

The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".

I would have to agree with you there. I notice more Canadians doing silly stuff when I travel than Americans... However, I do disagree with your contention that everytime they do something assholeish, the say they are Canadian... We have learned to just blame it on you Americans. No one outside North America can really tell the difference!

I have traveled as a backpacker to 50+ countries over the years, and the most curious thing for me was how in many countries people would ask first if I was a Canadian.  I'd say no, American, and ask if they were more common, and the answer was always universally "no, but the Canadians throw such hissy fits if we mistake them that it's better to assume everyone is one because Americans are nice and don't offend easily."

But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag, nor an American who had an urge to sew a Canadian one despite Canadians' insistence that this happens.  What can you do, eh?

At last Americans and Canadians agreeing with me.  I have a buddy who has owned a little jazz bar in Colombia for 20 years, and he says most of his bar fights have been due to Canucks.


to be frank, I used to sew a small Canadian flag on my backpack when I was younger. Now I am just happy to fit in where ever I am.
 
2013-02-20 01:22:36 PM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


*Checks profile*

You are a cool person, and I wish to have your life.
 
2013-02-20 01:22:51 PM
Wish the writer would stop sugar coating it and tell us what he really thinks.
 
2013-02-20 01:23:42 PM
Subby is a douchebag. It isn't the American tourists ruining Holland, it's the British.

Plus how bad was it when things were illegal? Did the Dutch just think to themselves...'gee, let's make a bad situation worse'?
 
2013-02-20 01:32:04 PM

Richard Sauce: diverse, sweeping statements about the average American always seem a bit silly.


Gee. A silly comment on Fark? Quelle horreur!
 
2013-02-20 01:36:59 PM
Legalizing prostitution and drugs had made the Dutch so sophisticated and enlightened. Quick, let's strive to grow human trafficking and legalize these blights on human society too.
 
2013-02-20 01:38:27 PM
If you think Amsterdam's train station is bad, try taking it to Paris Nort.  That place is a horror show!!!

On a side note, I've spent probably 1 month total in Amsterdam.  I've never engaged the hookers but I do love walking the red light district and seeing them in the windows.  Its a gas.  Especially how they bring out the D-Team at about 10pm when the business men are all drunk.  See, the hot ones are out from like 5pm-10pm to entice you into thinking they ALL look like that, but no business men will do it with all their friends around.  Then, after a few hours and half a dozen pints, its time to spend that hundred euro.

Anyways.  I've gotten ASS lost in Amsterdam, at like 3 am, and aside from the canals, never felt unsafe.  My wife has spent the same amount of time with me in the Netherlands, exploring the city during the day while I was at work, and she's never complained.

Also, AFAIK, the dutch really don't partake in the drugs and prostitution that much.  If they smoke weed at a cafe, its just considered a normal thing, like going to a starbucks here.   Also, the dutch, aside from being tall and BEAUTIFUL people, are quite intelligent, with many of them speaking 4+ languages. (I get that this is a primarily European thing, but still)

I love it there and think they have the right idea about a lot of what they're doing.
 
2013-02-20 01:40:15 PM
dk47:
Does grindr work for the straights?  Seriously.

Sure. If you are a straight guy I am sure you will have no problems finding other guys to have sex with on grindr.
 
2013-02-20 01:46:05 PM

StanleyPuff: Heron: Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.

Those opposed to legalized prostitution have always made their case by making unrealistic, sensational claims about it, and they're still doing that now. As actual academic studies show, most prostitution -even in the US where it's "illegal"- is consensual, pimpless, and typically a phase-of-life activity (meaning young people enter prostitution for extra money or curiosity, then leave it after a few years). Also noticeable in this article is the entire lack of any discussion of male-male homosexual prostitution which, again as academic studies consistently show, absolutely dwarfs the female-male side of the business. While trafficking and pimps do exist, they are a small part of sex-work, and one you can much more easily fight by bringing the industry out into the open and enforcing abuse/labor protection laws against those who assault and rip off prostitutes than by driving the entire industry back into the shadows.

I often wondered why a female prostitute would take on a pimp...especially after listening to Snoop Dogg on Howard Stern talk about the life*.  I guess I assumed that a pimp would scare a pimp-less girl into coming in under him by saying something akin to: "This is a nice store you got here.  It would be a shame for something to happen to it."

Since it sounds like you've done some reading on the subject that was supported by data and facts, perhaps you ...


Ok, a few points...

1. "Hos" aren't exactly the smartest people
2. If the pimp has the drug of choice for the "ho", then when she needs a fix, he has her under his pinky.  Really being a pimp is no different than being a drug dealer willing to trade sex for drugs.  Drugs seem to be the new currency for even normal girls at bars nowadays. "Got a gram of coke, pick up a slut".
3. The pimp can "theoretically" offer protection.  For escort jobs, he can send "Big Nig McSmashurFace" with the ho to the gig, and make sure the white boy pays up and gives a tip.
4. The pimp can offer a ho a place to live, no credit check needed.

In other words, pimps offer a very tenuous security to girls that earn and are easy to control.  And here again, this all relates back to point 1 above...
 
2013-02-20 01:46:33 PM
cefm: "Lack of specifics, studies, numbers, etc. mean that it is just fluff.  Choosing a histrionic tone over substance is a poor trade-off. "

This.  Unsubstantiated judgement is unsubstantiated.
 
2013-02-20 01:48:46 PM

uber humper: [i.imgur.com image 400x600]

Being about 25% Muslim, how liberal do you think the city will be in another 20 years? At that rate of growth, it won't belong until they have a majority in Amsterdam.

I for one...


Heard a sad story on NPR a while back. Apparently the rate of anti-gay violence has skyrocketed in the Netherlands, largely because of Muslim immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East.
 
2013-02-20 01:55:09 PM
LOL wow, team Single-Dudes-On-Fark is out in force. I just got around to clicking Andromeda's profile and she's a cute girl.  Explains the damn near 40 responses she got.  hah.
 
2013-02-20 01:59:08 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: Bastard Toadflax: Looks like the Dutch have lost their rudder.

what someone who lost their rudder may look like:
[images.hitfix.com image 326x217]


A gay dude?


/I keed, I keed
 
2013-02-20 02:02:23 PM

Chach: Legalizing prostitution and drugs had made the Dutch so sophisticated and enlightened. Quick, let's strive to grow human trafficking and legalize these blights on human society too.


Driving has made America so sophisticated and enlightened.  Quick, let's strive to grow DUI/DWI and legalize this blight on human society too.
 
2013-02-20 02:07:59 PM
Good to see that nobody takes this poorly written article serious. Well, except for the few who need crap like this to support their position, of course:

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...

randomsja: Shh, you don't want to shatter any silly delusions people have because they've learned to hate their own

country for some reason.

The only way you're going to have a country without any problems in it is if there are also no people in it.


kab: It's almost as if personal responsibility has a potential downside.

Thank god we're striving to simply do away with it here in the god-blessed USA.
 
2013-02-20 02:10:17 PM
Because nothing like that happens here...
 
2013-02-20 02:10:29 PM
Eh, I was in Holland two years ago for two weeks. It was lovely. Even most of Amsterdam is quite nice. There are far, far worse places in Europe.
 
2013-02-20 02:18:52 PM

Lucidz: many of them speaking 4+ languages. (I get that this is a primarily European thing, but still)


Not quite, depending of course on what you'd call "many". The educated ones and/or those in the tourist industry speak English and sometimes 1 or 2 more languages, but a lot of Dutch people know only a bit of - rather crappy - English.

/their Dutch is also crappy, though
 
2013-02-20 02:30:27 PM

uber humper: [i.imgur.com image 400x600]

Being about 25% Muslim, how liberal do you think the city will be in another 20 years? At that rate of growth, it won't belong until they have a majority in Amsterdam.

I for one...


Please! How about a NSFW tag for that picture! I think that I can see her eyes.
 
2013-02-20 02:32:19 PM
Andromeda:
I have traveled as a backpacker to 50+ countries over the years, and the most curious thing for me was how in many countries people would ask first if I was a Canadian.  I'd say no, American, and ask if they were more common, and the answer was always universally "no, but the Canadians throw such hissy fits if we mistake them that it's better to assume everyone is one because Americans are nice and don't offend easily."

But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag, nor an American who had an urge to sew a Canadian one despite Canadians' insistence that this happens.  What can you do, eh?


I have met Americans who have done the flag sewing/pretending to be Canadian (and Canadians overcompensating). If you are going to a place like Cambodia or Laos, I can understand the reasoning. I mean, Americans bombed the shiat out of them for no reason other than they were near Vietnam. But if you are in Europe? fark off and accept you are an American. They won't spit on you.

Most American's I have met who have done this I have always thought "well, it is better you pretended to be Canadian as you kinda suck and America gets a bad enough rep as it is. The only person I know of who has done this in Europe that pissed me off is my wife's best friend. She didn't understand why I had such a problem with it. I put it bluntly as she is the person who should be representing the United States. She is culturally sensitive, quiet, observant, respectful, a genius (she helped build Ice Cube) and all around a great person. She is a boon to our image abroad.
 
2013-02-20 02:41:27 PM

Ilmarinen: Lucidz: many of them speaking 4+ languages. (I get that this is a primarily European thing, but still)

Not quite, depending of course on what you'd call "many". The educated ones and/or those in the tourist industry speak English and sometimes 1 or 2 more languages, but a lot of Dutch people know only a bit of - rather crappy - English.

/their Dutch is also crappy, though


Well, FWIW, I worked at the RAI whenever I was there and stayed at that damn Novotel.  Hence, most of my time was spent in business districts, in the parks, etc. (Only some in red light)  That may have influenced my opinion.

/always caught a sex show while I was there
//they were always different, and always fun!
 
2013-02-20 02:45:09 PM
Isn't Greece the Armpit of Europe?
 
2013-02-20 02:45:36 PM

Wayne 985: uber humper: [i.imgur.com image 400x600]

Being about 25% Muslim, how liberal do you think the city will be in another 20 years? At that rate of growth, it won't belong until they have a majority in Amsterdam.

I for one...

Heard a sad story on NPR a while back. Apparently the rate of anti-gay violence has skyrocketed in the Netherlands, largely because of Muslim immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East.


And a Dutch politician advised orthodox Jews to move to the US or Israel.

/They can't say they weren't warned!
 
2013-02-20 02:46:50 PM

Haoie: Isn't Greece the Armpit of Europe?


No, Greece is the bunghole. How would one fark an armpit?
 
2013-02-20 02:50:45 PM

CygnusDarius: spawn73: Father_Jack: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

that would be the anus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria

What would you call Transnistria?

Perineum


Fitting :)
 
2013-02-20 02:53:00 PM

Lucidz: LOL wow, team Single-Dudes-On-Fark is out in force. I just got around to clicking Andromeda's profile and she's a cute girl.  Explains the damn near 40 responses she got.  hah.


I'm sure Andromeda is still a dude.  Come on, Andromeda -- It makes sense to pretend to be a woman in Tech help forums, but to do it on Fark is just attention whoring.

Anyways, you can't spell Andromeda without 'Andro' (Greek prefix for male)
 
2013-02-20 02:54:54 PM

Andromeda: But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag


I've noticed the same thing in both Asia and Europe. If you see somebody with a national flag sewn into their clothing, it is typically a Canadian flag. Nobody else seems to do it to the same degree.


Andromeda: "no, but the Canadians throw such hissy fits if we mistake them that it's better to assume everyone is one because Americans are nice and don't offend easily."


The weird thing is that most Canadians are laid back and a generally a pleasure to be around when you meet them in Canada or when traveling in the States. But for some reason, Canadians who travel elsewhere always seem to have a stick up their arse.

When I traveled to Taiwan to visit a friend, we hit a few expat bars. The Aussies, Kiwis, Brits and Yanks were generally fun to hang around. But everyone seemed to have a general dislike of the Canadians, especially when a Yank showed up. They'd often overcompensate or just start ragging on the States in front of everyone.


/the "Ugly American" thing has kinda died down in Europe
//they've redirected their ire at the Chinese
 
2013-02-20 02:58:08 PM

dersk: uber humper: Bryntryst: "What American hipsters think of Holland Amsterdam: Weed, Hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: Underage runaways, Sex Trafficking, Forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe"

FTFY, subby.

/lived in Landgraaf for three years.  An amazing country that I'd go back to in a heartbeat.

I literally thought the whole of Holland was Amsterdam.  I once got of the train in Rotterdam, thinking it was Amsterdam (because of the Zig Zag adverts)  and walked around for quite a while with the map of Amsterdam trying to get my bearings.

The country is the Netherlands, made up of 13 provinces which include North and South Holland. Amsterdam's in North Holland, The Hague and Rotterdam are South Holland.


Name all 13 provinces and you get a month's worth of TF.
 
2013-02-20 02:58:31 PM

Andromeda: But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag


Scrotum damage trifecta in play.

/not about to do a GIS, thank you
 
2013-02-20 03:02:13 PM
Sounds like the solution is for the rest of Europe to legalize prostitution as well. That way, Holland won't be the exclusive tourist destination for it anymore.
 
2013-02-20 03:02:41 PM

DerAppie: Name all 13 provinces and you get a month's worth of TF.


you made a funny...;)
 
2013-02-20 03:04:22 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: DerAppie: Name all 13 provinces and you get a month's worth of TF.

you made a funny...;)


Swamp Germans can have a sense of humor, unlike the Highland Germans
 
2013-02-20 03:07:21 PM

Virtuoso80: Sounds like the solution is for the rest of Europe to legalize prostitution as well. That way, Holland won't be the exclusive tourist destination for it anymore.


here in switzerland its been the same for a long time, except here you can be a hooker at 16 instead of 18. the more you know...
 
2013-02-20 03:08:15 PM
I think Dutch sounds like an English-speaker pretending to speak German.
 
2013-02-20 03:10:02 PM

HailRobonia: I think Dutch sounds like an English-speaker pretending to speak German.


agreed.

it makes sense, actually, when one views their location in relation to the linguistic solar systems they hit... they're at the outer rim of the german language, and at the outer rim of english english; would make sense their language would be a mixture of both but really not being a dialect of either.
 
2013-02-20 03:11:40 PM

uber humper: Lucidz: LOL wow, team Single-Dudes-On-Fark is out in force. I just got around to clicking Andromeda's profile and she's a cute girl.  Explains the damn near 40 responses she got.  hah.

I'm sure Andromeda is still a dude.  Come on, Andromeda -- It makes sense to pretend to be a woman in Tech help forums, but to do it on Fark is just attention whoring.

Anyways, you can't spell Andromeda without 'Andro' (Greek prefix for male)


I'm pretty sure I'm a chick.  Sorry you're so insecure that you can't handle a woman who knows stuff.
 
2013-02-20 03:14:07 PM

Andromeda: uber humper: Lucidz: LOL wow, team Single-Dudes-On-Fark is out in force. I just got around to clicking Andromeda's profile and she's a cute girl.  Explains the damn near 40 responses she got.  hah.

I'm sure Andromeda is still a dude.  Come on, Andromeda -- It makes sense to pretend to be a woman in Tech help forums, but to do it on Fark is just attention whoring.

Anyways, you can't spell Andromeda without 'Andro' (Greek prefix for male)

I'm pretty sure I'm a chick.  Sorry you're so insecure that you can't handle a woman who knows stuff.


Smart wimmins is scary!
 
2013-02-20 03:14:27 PM

Father_Jack: HailRobonia: I think Dutch sounds like an English-speaker pretending to speak German.

agreed.

it makes sense, actually, when one views their location in relation to the linguistic solar systems they hit... they're at the outer rim of the german language, and at the outer rim of english english; would make sense their language would be a mixture of both but really not being a dialect of either.


Reminds me of a book I bought a few years back "Breaking the Language Code: German". There was a table in the back to translate words letter-by-letter,  i=e and so forth.  Wasn't that accurate but good illustration of how close the Germanic languages are.
 
2013-02-20 03:15:17 PM

Father_Jack: Virtuoso80: Sounds like the solution is for the rest of Europe to legalize prostitution as well. That way, Holland won't be the exclusive tourist destination for it anymore.

here in switzerland its been the same for a long time, except here you can be a hooker at 16 instead of 18. the more you know...


Silly me just went back and read the TFA in it's entirety, and I realized there's an entirely different problem: The author has a severely biased agenda.

Prostitution has existed legally in many forms and in many periods of history. I don't see any reason why there should not be a feasible legal model that could work, or at least work somewhat better than the illegal model.
 
2013-02-20 03:15:39 PM

Andromeda: uber humper: Lucidz: LOL wow, team Single-Dudes-On-Fark is out in force. I just got around to clicking Andromeda's profile and she's a cute girl.  Explains the damn near 40 responses she got.  hah.

I'm sure Andromeda is still a dude.  Come on, Andromeda -- It makes sense to pretend to be a woman in Tech help forums, but to do it on Fark is just attention whoring.

Anyways, you can't spell Andromeda without 'Andro' (Greek prefix for male)

I'm pretty sure I'm a chick.  Sorry you're so insecure that you can't handle a woman who knows stuff.


You just proved you are a chick. I believe you.
 
2013-02-20 03:17:08 PM

Father_Jack: Virtuoso80: Sounds like the solution is for the rest of Europe to legalize prostitution as well. That way, Holland won't be the exclusive tourist destination for it anymore.

here in switzerland its been the same for a long time, except here you can be a hooker at 16 instead of 18. the more you know...


Dont forget about Germany and Greece. it is legal there too
 
2013-02-20 03:18:37 PM

Father_Jack: HailRobonia: I think Dutch sounds like an English-speaker pretending to speak German.

agreed.

it makes sense, actually, when one views their location in relation to the linguistic solar systems they hit... they're at the outer rim of the german language, and at the outer rim of english english; would make sense their language would be a mixture of both but really not being a dialect of either.


Dutch is basically the bridge between English and German from what I've learned, but if you are keen on the language evolution type stuff look up Frisian, a language/dialect from northern parts of the Netherlands.  It's the closest language to English that isn't English- for example my friends who are from that part of the country read Beowulf just like we do because it's part of their linguistic heritage and all that.

"Rye bread, butter and green cheese is good English and good Fries!" (ie that sounds the same in both languages)
 
2013-02-20 03:19:07 PM

Virtuoso80: Prostitution has existed legally in many forms and in many periods of history. I don't see any reason why there should not be a feasible legal model that could work, or at least work somewhat better than the illegal model.


There are some decent arguments against it (personally, I'm all for it). One argument is that legalization would not change the working conditions of the women.  The crack-whores would still be unemployable while the middle and upper echelons would still get away with it; an agency hooker would rarely be arrested. The crack-whrores should be arrested to save themselves from themselves.
 
2013-02-20 03:34:05 PM
Remember, prostitution laws apply only to streetwalkers, the high end call girls and escorts servicing itinerant businessmen and politicians are exempt.

Also, for a domestic example of human trafficking, come visit NE 82nd Ave in Portland sometime (aka "The Avenue of Roses", as in 20 roses for a beej, 100 roses for a half-n-half ...
 
2013-02-20 03:37:14 PM

fredbox: Remember, prostitution laws apply only to streetwalkers, the high end call girls and escorts servicing itinerant businessmen and politicians are exempt.

Also, for a domestic example of human trafficking, come visit NE 82nd Ave in Portland sometime (aka "The Avenue of Roses", as in 20 roses for a beej, 100 roses for a half-n-half ...


That's what makes pimpin' so hard, Jack. Now, get off
 
2013-02-20 03:41:37 PM

uber humper: fredbox: Remember, prostitution laws apply only to streetwalkers, the high end call girls and escorts servicing itinerant businessmen and politicians are exempt.

Also, for a domestic example of human trafficking, come visit NE 82nd Ave in Portland sometime (aka "The Avenue of Roses", as in 20 roses for a beej, 100 roses for a half-n-half ...

That's what makes pimpin' so hard, Jack. Now, get off


Uh you had me (scared) at "come visit NE Portland"  I didn't go SE or NE ever if I could help it.  And how does The avenue of roses compare with good ole sandy blvd?
 
2013-02-20 03:41:54 PM

Vodka Zombie: cman: Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ

I lived in Eindhoven for three years.  Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.


But he is childish.
 
2013-02-20 03:42:24 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Well my friend did get his hat stolen at gunpoint in the red light district late at night the first time I was there. I would still move there in a second if I could find a job, that place is awesome and even though he got robbed I didn't really feel unsafe at all.


When I went, my host (a Dutch woman who'd lived in the US for a decade before going back) told me to keep everything close to me, locked up, and carry a wallet chain and constantly be aware of everything, because her iPhone and half her stuff had just been stolen.

....It turned out that her backpack had slipped off of her bike about halfway to work, and when she turned around and found the remains a half hour later her stuff had been sifted through. Gee, that makes it all sound so dangerous.
 
2013-02-20 03:49:12 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: DerAppie: Name all 13 provinces and you get a month's worth of TF.

you made a funny...;)


Sure did.
 
2013-02-20 03:52:59 PM
I lived in Utrecht, about 20 min by train, from Amsterdam, for a little over two years until recently. Weekends about once every month or every two months to Amsterdam to drink with friends. Went through the red light districts once or twice for the fun of it, but never tried them out. It did feel a bit like a meat market.

There were some interesting characters hanging around, but the biggest problem I ever saw was large groups, of no smaller than 10, British teenagers/20-somethings drunk as hell walking around.

I was told by some of my Dutch colleagues that there was a feeling in the nation that the police were ignoring some of the larger issues, and would often go after small time offenders because they wouldn't fight back. Which, I guess, sadly, isn't too much of a surprise when talking about cops.
 
2013-02-20 03:54:02 PM

Bastard Toadflax: Looks like the Dutch have lost their rudder.


I'd schooner be Dutch,
But not by mutch.
 
2013-02-20 03:56:58 PM

Dinjiin: I visited Amsterdam a couple years ago with a friend.  Most of the prostitutes in windows appeared to be eastern European or African.  Most of the guards and pimps appeared to be Russian.  My friend noted that it was a huge change from when they were there a decade before, when most of the women were Dutch and the pimps were less visible.

Sounds as if the Dutch authorities simply failed to enforce the laws they had on the books, which resulted in an uptick in tax evasion, undocumented/ineligible workers, assaults and organized crime.  So instead of spending the time and effort to clean up the system, they're going to try and shut the whole thing down.  As if that is going to work.


Last year I only saw that in the unsavory areas to the immediate south of Centraal, around the back side of Oide Kirk, and I'm sure that's where you could score all the trafficked gals and illegal drugs you wanted. On the canal side of the entire De Wallen area it appeared to be almost exclusively Dutch and some Eastern European women, as far as I could tell, and the other red light areas were purely Dutch to my eye. Maybe they've already been doing a better job of cleaning up; as someone posted, quite a few illegal brothels have been shut down.
 
2013-02-20 04:11:05 PM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


I used to live in Germany, and we'd drive up to Amsterdam on long weekends.  Once you've seen the Red Light District, the novelty wears off pretty quick.   You can't really stick an underage hooker in one of the brothel windows and not have someone question it.  The legal hookers all seemed highly educated and at least multi-lingual.  Most could switch from English to German to Dutch talking to prospective johns with ease, and many were studying college textbooks between clients.
 
2013-02-20 04:20:47 PM

grokca: Vodka Zombie: cman: Oh, the Netherlands, how I hate ye.

Your language sounds like a girl speaking English with her mouth occupied by a certain male sexual organ

I lived in Eindhoven for three years.  Wonderful place if you're not so petty or childish as to hate an entire nation for the language they speak.

Ah, Stratumseind, I lost a lot of braincells there.

Who knew that the Dutch started this whole exploitation of other people thing?


images.zap2it.com
 
2013-02-20 04:23:01 PM

dk47: TheLopper: I spent some time in Amsterdam in the 90s. I thought it was very pretty and the people were very nice. Though I didn't purchase any fresh human-trafficked underage prostitutes. It wasn't in the brochure.

One of the most scared I have been in all my travels through first and third worlds is standing in front of the train station in Amsterdam.  Truly a hive of scum and villany.


The first time I walked out of Centraal Station I was a bit overwhelmed too but It's the Brits outside the Old Sailor and other pubs on Friday and Saturday nights around closing time that should scare you. They're the only ones I've ever seen get violent with anyone and they truly enjoy it. I think a lot of the people here bashing American tourists are confusing them with the Brits.

Even the drug dealers at the bridges and the dark recesses of the Wallen and the Singel RLD's will only rip you off, not hurt you....at least so far anyway.
 
2013-02-20 04:25:16 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: Bastard Toadflax: Looks like the Dutch have lost their rudder.

what someone who lost their rudder may look like:
[images.hitfix.com image 326x217]


Nice!
 
2013-02-20 04:35:32 PM

Lucidz: uber humper: fredbox: Remember, prostitution laws apply only to streetwalkers, the high end call girls and escorts servicing itinerant businessmen and politicians are exempt.

Also, for a domestic example of human trafficking, come visit NE 82nd Ave in Portland sometime (aka "The Avenue of Roses", as in 20 roses for a beej, 100 roses for a half-n-half ...

That's what makes pimpin' so hard, Jack. Now, get off

Uh you had me (scared) at "come visit NE Portland"  I didn't go SE or NE ever if I could help it.  And how does The avenue of roses compare with good ole sandy blvd?


On 82nd you pay for women. Sandy the dudes do it for free.
 
2013-02-20 04:45:25 PM
Let me guess , this article was written by some fundagelical from the American south who spends most of his time foaming at the mouth because the world doesn't kiss the ass of JEBUS as much as he thinks they should
 
2013-02-20 04:53:03 PM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


I hosted a student from Zoomvliet and she was sad to leave, but missed home. One of the guys made me promise to visit this year.
 
2013-02-20 05:15:36 PM

Bastard Toadflax: Looks like the Dutch have lost their rudder.


Nope, he's still around, but looks nothing like this...

www.eurosoccerfans.com
 
2013-02-20 05:21:07 PM

stevetherobot: doglover: I'm pretty sure you can find sex slaves in America. Underage hookers as well. Not to mention the gun violence. Europe's not much better. And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.

Glass houses, etc.

80% of Germans are under age 65, meaning they were born after the last world war. I think it's fair to give them a pass on fueling the two largest wars in history.


100% of Americans were born after pushing the Indians almost into extinction and slavery was abolished but yet I have to hear about how evil I am because of it, especially because I happened to be born in the Southeast.
 
2013-02-20 05:27:24 PM
Amsterdam has a population of 800,000 inhabitants. On 1 January 2012, the ethnic makeup of Amsterdam was 49.5% Dutch and 50.5% foreigners.
...
Today, people of non-Western origin make up approximately one-third of the population of Amsterdam, and more than 50% of children.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-20 05:29:21 PM
Sensationalist hack journalism is sensationalist and hacky.

There's zero numbers or facts in this article. It doesn't state if there are more underaged runaways or trafficking or forced girls in a legal/decriminalized system when compared to a place where prostitution is illegal. If it is a problem, it's not stating why. Is it because authorities don't enforce the laws? Is it due to organized crime? Is there a lack of legal and community services for the prostitutes?

Also, how come no one's asking the prostitutes what's working and what isn't? Surely they would be able to say if things are better or worse and why?
 
2013-02-20 05:39:50 PM

Dinjiin: Andromeda: But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag

I've noticed the same thing in both Asia and Europe. If you see somebody with a national flag sewn into their clothing, it is typically a Canadian flag. Nobody else seems to do it to the same degree.


Andromeda: "no, but the Canadians throw such hissy fits if we mistake them that it's better to assume everyone is one because Americans are nice and don't offend easily."

The weird thing is that most Canadians are laid back and a generally a pleasure to be around when you meet them in Canada or when traveling in the States. But for some reason, Canadians who travel elsewhere always seem to have a stick up their arse.

When I traveled to Taiwan to visit a friend, we hit a few expat bars. The Aussies, Kiwis, Brits and Yanks were generally fun to hang around. But everyone seemed to have a general dislike of the Canadians, especially when a Yank showed up. They'd often overcompensate or just start ragging on the States in front of everyone.


/the "Ugly American" thing has kinda died down in Europe
//they've redirected their ire at the Chinese


Yeah, I generally love Canadians and Canadian people, but the over compensation by some  gets to be a little over the top traveling abroad sometimes... what with the maple leaf on the backpack, and the maple leaf shirt, and the maple leaf boxers and the maple leaf tampon dispenser, etc.    Many come off more nationalistic than the worst American redneck.    They seem to expect some sort of reverence from everyone else, as though everyone upon finding out that they're from Canada they're going to drop down to their knees and exclaim "Oh, thanks for being the COOL North American!!   Would you please allow me the honor of blowing you?"    I don't think the worst culprits realize the rest of the "Westerners" are laughing about them behind their back.     One of the worst experiences I've ever had with a fellow traveler was in Laos with a drunk from Vancouver  who would endlessly lecture me about the vulgarities and shallowness of American culture.  Finally I had to remind him that he lives 2 hours from Seattle and there's probably a reason why nobody can tell him apart from Americans until he corrects them.
 
2013-02-20 05:43:52 PM

suggiethames: Let me guess , this article was written by some fundagelical from the American south who spends most of his time foaming at the mouth because the world doesn't kiss the ass of JEBUS as much as he thinks they should


Aside from being completely incorrect, sure.
Julie Bindel: British, female, feminist, lesbian.
 
2013-02-20 05:50:55 PM

InmanRoshi: I generally love Canadians and Canadian people, but the over compensation by some gets to be a little over the top


There's a long history

images.cheezburger.com
 
2013-02-20 06:12:30 PM

suggiethames: Let me guess , this article was written by some fundagelical from the American south who spends most of his time foaming at the mouth because the world doesn't kiss the ass of JEBUS as much as he thinks they should


Let me guess, you are an openly blatant bigot.
 
2013-02-20 06:22:50 PM

suggiethames: Let me guess , this article was written by some fundagelical from the American south who spends most of his time foaming at the mouth because the world doesn't kiss the ass of JEBUS as much as he thinks they should


Let me guess, 2/10.  You'll get some nibbles.
 
2013-02-20 06:47:09 PM
OH COME ON!
 
2013-02-20 06:56:36 PM
Uh.  I've been to a lot of countries (not as many as our galpal Andromeda) as well as lived all over the US... I'm from Nashville, TN originally.

So, uh, not everyone from the south is a flaming, closeted, gun toting, bible thumping, Glen Beck worshiping, nazi-commie-socialist hating, bigot who despises other cultures.

...

Except people from Georgia.  Holy shiat they are out there!
 
2013-02-20 07:02:16 PM
That's why "legalize it and tax it" would never work. Take away the stigma associated with prostitution and the demand goes through the roof. You still have to come up with the supply to meet that demand and no self-respecting woman would want "sex worker" on her resume, so the traffickers fill in that supply gap.
 
2013-02-20 07:18:12 PM

gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.


I think it is illegal in Vegas.  Only certain rural counties in Nevada have legalized prostitution.
 
2013-02-20 07:22:46 PM

hundreddollarman: That's why "legalize it and tax it" would never work. Take away the stigma associated with prostitution and the demand goes through the roof. You still have to come up with the supply to meet that demand and no self-respecting woman would want "sex worker" on her resume, so the traffickers fill in that supply gap.


You do realize that the women who would be willing to schtoop for cash either don't have or don't even know how to write a resume, yeah?
 
2013-02-20 07:33:27 PM
I love it when lying, sex-hating feminists get together with lying, sex-hating conservatives and inflate crime stats to create the appearance of huge social problems and boogeymen, all so they can shame normal human sexuality and tell the rest of us what to do with our bodies.

It's like a black hole of hypocrisy.
 
2013-02-20 07:53:49 PM
Dutch girls on bicycles trump everything that is bad about Holland.

Mildly Not Safe For Work video.
 
2013-02-20 07:54:32 PM

Canned Tamales: I love it when lying, sex-hating feminists get together with lying, sex-hating conservatives and inflate crime stats to create the appearance of huge social problems and boogeymen, all so they can shame normal human sexuality and tell the rest of us what to do with our bodies.

It's like a black hole of hypocrisy.


You don't give up on trying to troll do you?
 
2013-02-20 07:57:04 PM

Lucidz: hundreddollarman: That's why "legalize it and tax it" would never work. Take away the stigma associated with prostitution and the demand goes through the roof. You still have to come up with the supply to meet that demand and no self-respecting woman would want "sex worker" on her resume, so the traffickers fill in that supply gap.

You do realize that the women who would be willing to schtoop for cash either don't have or don't even know how to write a resume, yeah?


You do realize you're regurgitating a bad stereotype, no? Not all sex workers are drugged-up street walkers doling out handjobs for cash. Like that Zumba instructor, for starters. Then there's the stereotypical "stripper dancing to pay for college."
 
2013-02-20 07:58:30 PM
If I understand this correctly, The Spectator stole a photo of German prostitutes (from 2009), to whine about Amsterdam prostitutes?

Or, is Amsterdam part of Germany again?

http://dalje.com/en-world/berlin-brothel-offers-discounts-for-cyclis ts /270125
 
2013-02-20 08:05:08 PM

hundreddollarman: Lucidz: hundreddollarman: That's why "legalize it and tax it" would never work. Take away the stigma associated with prostitution and the demand goes through the roof. You still have to come up with the supply to meet that demand and no self-respecting woman would want "sex worker" on her resume, so the traffickers fill in that supply gap.

You do realize that the women who would be willing to schtoop for cash either don't have or don't even know how to write a resume, yeah?

You do realize you're regurgitating a bad stereotype, no? Not all sex workers are drugged-up street walkers doling out handjobs for cash. Like that Zumba instructor, for starters. Then there's the stereotypical "stripper dancing to pay for college."


What are you ranting about?  If she's stripping only, she's not banging people for money, or at least not supposed to be...  And I don't know anything about the Zumba instructor, but regardless, I doubt anyone puts stripping or whoring on a resume.  Or Zumba on the resume for that matter...

And I've seen some escorts in Vegas driving WAY nicer cars than me.  Good on them for making money off the IRS' radar.  But do you think many of them are working on their resume or planning out their 401k?  Most of them are just enjoying a crazy life and spending time (and money) buying shoes and doing blow...

I'm sorry if that's regurgitating a stereotype but even in the stripper world the "dancing for college" line is mostly a load of crap.  I've been to my share of strip clubs, dated enough strippers, and talked with enough hookers (never bought, probably wouldn't) to have what I consider a realistic handle on it...
 
2013-02-20 08:08:10 PM

BrotherEarth: If I understand this correctly, The Spectator stole a photo of German prostitutes (from 2009), to whine about Amsterdam prostitutes?

Or, is Amsterdam part of Germany again?

http://dalje.com/en-world/berlin-brothel-offers-discounts-for-cyclis ts /270125


I think that's a stock photo, but it's kind of scary that you recognized it.
 
2013-02-20 08:26:22 PM

gilgigamesh: Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.

Perhaps.  The article is pretty light on facts.

The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.


True, I've never any signs of organized crime operating in Vegas.
 
2013-02-20 08:37:56 PM
I lived in Holland for a summer doing research in architecture school. The Red Light district was a cool place where you could swing in, see people farking live on stage, maybe rip a joint and bang a hooker. It was a strangely magical place where vice was allowed and to a degree celebrated, but it didn't consume the city. Outside the clearly defined borders of the Red Light District, it was a normal (albeit progressive) European city. It seems in the 17 years since then, the vice has become the primary reason people go there, which is sad.
 
2013-02-20 08:58:24 PM

DECMATH: Vodka Zombie: I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.

An entire country that doesn't border the country where Copenhagen is located.  Sounds a bit like taking the worst aspects of Vancouver BC to preach about the problems in Mexico.


They actually used to border, before Germany assimilated/stole the bit inbetween...

/Also, yanks think Copenhagen is the capital of Amsterdam
 
2013-02-20 09:07:50 PM

theflatline: scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.

The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.
2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".
3. Spaniards - they think everyone in latin america are inferior creatures but love banging the women there.


You forgot Russians... loud, disrespectful of everyone, flouting their wealth, taking _everything_ at an open buffet "BECAUSE IT'S FREE SO I CAN TAKE IT, DON'T TRY TO STOP ME!", even if they're not going to eat it. And ofcourse, their perpetual inebriated state, but that's probably redundant.
 
2013-02-20 09:43:21 PM

Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.


Actually it's a matter of state law that Las Vegas and Reno do not have legal prostitution.  Otherwise it's left up to the county.

There are some reports of abuse from the brothels but nowhere near what you hear of on the street.

Karac: Interesting tidbit: several years ago, the Department of Defense added a regulation which outlawed members of the military hiring a hooker; even if doing so was legal under the local laws - even if that location was one of those brothel-friendly Nevada counties.

The theory behind this was that the odds of the girl being a trafficed sex slave were so high that it could be presumed that no prostitute anywhere in the world was able to consent to sex and hiring her would be tantamount to rape.


I wouldn't go quite that far but there's a good chance a third-world prostitute is enslaved.  It's not a certainty of rape but there is an undue risk it is.  First world, it's a matter of what level you're looking at.  At the low end she's probably enslaved, at the high end she's probably there of her own free will.
 
2013-02-20 09:48:25 PM

doglover: And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.


Don't mention the war! (I did once, but I think I got away with it)
 
2013-02-20 11:49:19 PM

silvervial: doglover: And I don't care HOW nice Germany gets, you don't get a free pass for fueling the two largest wars in history in a mere century just because your economy looks good now.

Don't mention the war! (I did once, but I think I got away with it)


If you're in a situation where you have to mention the War, the most acceptable way to do so is with charades.
 
2013-02-21 02:49:48 AM

Dinjiin: The weird thing is that most Canadians are laid back and a generally a pleasure to be around when you meet them in Canada or when traveling in the States. But for some reason, Canadians who travel elsewhere always seem to have a stick up their arse.


I finally figured out that it was because the cool Canucks just plain don't talk at all about themselves. They're so overly polite that they'll just nod and have a conversation about whatever you want to talk about, while always steering the conversation away, and after an hour you'll finally find out where they're from and they'll be incredibly embarrassed about it. I have no idea if this is an Alberta thing - I meed an inordinate number of people from Calgary - but the Canadians who aren't blatant assholes are all like this to me.
 
2013-02-21 04:41:50 AM
American Tfette living in NL (the Netherlands) and working in Amsterdam for 16 years: This is just bashing, plain and simple, probably written by someone with their knickers in a twist because UK customs caught them with a spliff in their back pocket when they went back home. I have dual citizenship and I vote in elections here. Almost every person I've seen drunk or high in all my years here has been American, British or French.

For the record, I don't drink much, I don't smoke at all and I even go to church once in a while. I also support legalised pot, legalised prostitution and gay rights. And, here, none of those things are incompatible with one another. This country has big problems, just like every other country, but having lived and worked here all these years, I cannot imagine that the problems referred to in this article are any worse here than they are in any other capital city or major urban conglomerate. Certainly I've seen far more vulgar (and violent) things in New York and London than I have ever seen here.
 
2013-02-21 05:45:24 AM

Lucidz: What are you ranting about? If she's stripping only, she's not banging people for money, or at least not supposed to be... And I don't know anything about the Zumba instructor, but regardless, I doubt anyone puts stripping or whoring on a resume. Or Zumba on the resume for that matter...

And I've seen some escorts in Vegas driving WAY nicer cars than me. Good on them for making money off the IRS' radar. But do you think many of them are working on their resume or planning out their 401k? Most of them are just enjoying a crazy life and spending time (and money) buying shoes and doing blow...

I'm sorry if that's regurgitating a stereotype but even in the stripper world the "dancing for college" line is mostly a load of crap. I've been to my share of strip clubs, dated enough strippers, and talked with enough hookers (never bought, probably wouldn't) to have what I consider a realistic handle on it...


I can see why the only ones who'd date you were the ones that fell into your stereotype. Besides that, what does anyone you dated in the US have to do with legal Dutch prostitution?
 
2013-02-21 06:03:10 AM
"What American hipsters think of Holland: weed, hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: underage runaways, sex trafficking, forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe"

I don't see the difference?

*ba-da-dum-ching!*
 
2013-02-21 12:35:07 PM
So, some professional scold says legalizing prostitution in Amsterdam has been a disaster, but doesn't bother to cite any sources. I guess lesbian activists are so trustworthy on the topic of men paying for sex that there's no reason for her to need to directly cite any studies, court cases or authorities.
 
2013-02-21 02:55:00 PM

Teknowaffle: Andromeda:
I have traveled as a backpacker to 50+ countries over the years, and the most curious thing for me was how in many countries people would ask first if I was a Canadian.  I'd say no, American, and ask if they were more common, and the answer was always universally "no, but the Canadians throw such hissy fits if we mistake them that it's better to assume everyone is one because Americans are nice and don't offend easily."

But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag, nor an American who had an urge to sew a Canadian one despite Canadians' insistence that this happens.  What can you do, eh?

I have met Americans who have done the flag sewing/pretending to be Canadian (and Canadians overcompensating). If you are going to a place like Cambodia or Laos, I can understand the reasoning. I mean, Americans bombed the shiat out of them for no reason other than they were near Vietnam. But if you are in Europe? fark off and accept you are an American. They won't spit on you.

Most American's I have met who have done this I have always thought "well, it is better you pretended to be Canadian as you kinda suck and America gets a bad enough rep as it is. The only person I know of who has done this in Europe that pissed me off is my wife's best friend. She didn't understand why I had such a problem with it. I put it bluntly as she is the person who should be representing the United States. She is culturally sensitive, quiet, observant, respectful, a genius (she helped build Ice Cube) and all around a great person. She is a boon to our image abroad.


I have usually introduced myself as from New York City in Europe. in Paris it was very helpful, as most Parisians dream of visiting/living in New York City.
 
2013-02-21 09:48:01 PM

dumbobruni: Teknowaffle: Andromeda:
I have traveled as a backpacker to 50+ countries over the years, and the most curious thing for me was how in many countries people would ask first if I was a Canadian.  I'd say no, American, and ask if they were more common, and the answer was always universally "no, but the Canadians throw such hissy fits if we mistake them that it's better to assume everyone is one because Americans are nice and don't offend easily."

But then I've never met a Canadian who didn't have an urge to sew their flag on their bag, nor an American who had an urge to sew a Canadian one despite Canadians' insistence that this happens.  What can you do, eh?

I have met Americans who have done the flag sewing/pretending to be Canadian (and Canadians overcompensating). If you are going to a place like Cambodia or Laos, I can understand the reasoning. I mean, Americans bombed the shiat out of them for no reason other than they were near Vietnam. But if you are in Europe? fark off and accept you are an American. They won't spit on you.

Most American's I have met who have done this I have always thought "well, it is better you pretended to be Canadian as you kinda suck and America gets a bad enough rep as it is. The only person I know of who has done this in Europe that pissed me off is my wife's best friend. She didn't understand why I had such a problem with it. I put it bluntly as she is the person who should be representing the United States. She is culturally sensitive, quiet, observant, respectful, a genius (she helped build Ice Cube) and all around a great person. She is a boon to our image abroad.

I have usually introduced myself as from New York City in Europe. in Paris it was very helpful, as most Parisians dream of visiting/living in New York City.


I always introduce myself as from Boston (which is true). Probably safer to do that overseas than in some parts of the US.
 
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