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(The Spectator UK)   What American hipsters think of Holland: weed, hookers, perfect Utopia of freedom. What Holland really looks like: underage runaways, sex trafficking, forced prostitution, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe   (spectator.co.uk) divider line 389
    More: Sad, Runaways, Holland, human trafficking, Europe, forced prostitution, freedoms, street prostitution, libidos  
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16696 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 10:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 11:06:47 AM

gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.


No.  Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas.
 
2013-02-20 11:06:59 AM
However, Liam Nesson sightings are on the rise:
www.imfdb.org
 
2013-02-20 11:07:48 AM

brantgoose: H31N0US: I have fallen behind. Which side of the aisle bankrolls The Spectator?

Any hoo, like the neo-cons, the people who write for and read The Spectator are further to the right than The American Spectator.


I looked up the author and she's a lesbian feminist who believes marriage should be abolished. That doesn't sound very far right.
 
2013-02-20 11:07:59 AM

Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage


I'd say the majority of the former Soviet satellite-states (with a few notable exceptions) because anything the soviets touched -with their tanks- turned to shiat.
 
2013-02-20 11:08:35 AM
Netherlands the armpit of Europe?

Oh HELL no!

The Netherlands is more like a sexy thigh....or a nice belly.

The author is full of shiat.
 
2013-02-20 11:08:35 AM

gilgigamesh: Vodka Zombie: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: But yeah, forced/underaged prostitution is awful too. DNRTFA, but I thought that place was pretty tightly regulated.

It is.  I think people are taking a lot of the really bad things about Copenhagen, Denmark, and trying to apply it to Amsterdam in an attempt to disparage an entire country.

Perhaps.  The article is pretty light on facts.

The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.


Sex trade isn't legal in Vegas.  It is legal in Nevada, but not within the city limits of Paradise or Las Vegas.
 
2013-02-20 11:09:33 AM
Holland ... a land of contrasts.
 
2013-02-20 11:09:36 AM
theflatline:  Bogota had a mayor that realized that the only way to make people act correctly was to to publically shame them, so in one of the busiest intersections he hired 100s of mimes and every time someone broke a traffic law the mimes made fun of them.  The intersection is now the safest place to drive in the city.

That, and everyone is afraid of mimes.
 
2013-02-20 11:10:14 AM

CygnusDarius: Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage

I'd say the majority of the former Soviet satellite-states (with a few notable exceptions) because anything the soviets touched -with their tanks- turned to shiat.


On my end of the world I will submit Caracas in Venezuela or Buena Ventura in Colombia, and 90% of Panama.
 
2013-02-20 11:10:19 AM
The South Bronx was bad in 1979, therefore America sucks forever.
 
2013-02-20 11:11:09 AM
Andromeda: correct stuff

my ex from school lived in maastricht for a while. i've been to the dam of course. safest i felt the entire time i was in europe. seriously, the touristy areas are just fine. i only got offered crack once. i get offered crack more often in my native new jersey than i ever did in amsterdam. place is great, even if you don't smoke. a wonderful city

/im dutch-american.
//so maybe im biased
///hup hup holland Oranje goooooooooo
 
2013-02-20 11:11:31 AM
If the article had a legitimate point to make, which it likely did, it failed to convince.  It read more like an opinion piece than any serious reporting.

Lack of specifics, studies, numbers, etc. mean that it is just fluff.  Choosing a histrionic tone over substance is a poor trade-off.
 
2013-02-20 11:11:31 AM

theflatline: scumshine: Holland is a great place. I try to avoid American stoner tourists when I vist there - most of them act like farking assholes. Try getting out of Amsterdam, Holland is a fantastic place to explore and the people are nice.

Anyhoo, beats hell out of France.

The worst tourists in my experience are not americans.

1. Israelis, in groups of 1-2 they are fine, but anything more they reach critical mass and become drunken unruly louts, and unfortunately krav maga is always involved.
2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".
3. Spaniards - they think everyone in latin america are inferior creatures but love banging the women there.


Occasionally Expedia takes a huge survey of European service workers, where they grade tourists based on their nationality. Americans tend to do pretty well  (at least top half, if not top third). Japanese usually are #1 and the Russians, French, Indians and Chinese are at the bottom.
 
2013-02-20 11:11:48 AM

Andromeda: theflatline: Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.

I am sure all of that exists, you just do not run around where those actions occur.

I have lived on and off in Colombia over 20 years and there are plenty of Americans and Europeans living there now and they go native and say things like "Cocaine, hookers, kidnappings do not exist, I do not know what Colombia you live in, but not mine!"

Because they stay in their homes, and only venture out to places that their Colombian wives let them go, and usually only with family members and friends.

Plus the locals tend to put on their best behavior for not natives.

I on the other hand as a Colombian/American will say "what about  the four whore houses around the corner from the church?  the cabbie who just tried to sell me an eightball, and the lady with the photo book full of 15 year old hookers?" and the response is always "well, uh, you must be making that up!"

I have been to Amsterdam and thought it was a wonderful place, but I did see a lot of unwashed druggies and public urination, but it was mostly other Euros getting their party on.

Like anyone who lives in Amsterdam I do know where this stuff is going on, but as you point out it's not really the Dutch involved- it's tourists.  And as I said I'm sure there are underage prostitutes in any place in America, so does that mean you don't know you're city?

I'm not claiming a year and a half makes me as well-verse ...


Yeah, really. I had to move there in 2009 for work for six months and was completely shocked at how much of a clean, fun, well run city Amsterdam was considering what I had heard about it.

I am trying to figure out how one can see a bunch of public urination when you got those big metal barrel-looking building things all over the place to pee in so no-one has to see your junk.
 
2013-02-20 11:13:26 AM

theflatline: CygnusDarius: Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage

I'd say the majority of the former Soviet satellite-states (with a few notable exceptions) because anything the soviets touched -with their tanks- turned to shiat.

On my end of the world I will submit Caracas in Venezuela or Buena Ventura in Colombia, and 90% of Panama.


If now we're doing this for Latin America, my own country (Mexico) is probably that part of the backside that is not the back, but it's not the ass, either. The utter stupidity of 3/4 of my own government and some of my own people has made me realize I prefer to describe myself as a 'citizen of the world' instead of Mexican, for the most part.
 
2013-02-20 11:13:34 AM

InmanRoshi: andersoncouncil42: I'm utterly shocked that an article by the Spectator bares no resemblance to reality, shocked. Bullshiat article by a conservative rag. The people that could believe this crap are those who have never been and have the mentality of a timid sheep.

Yeah, Ugly American article written by an Ugly American magazine written for an  Ugly American audience who believe a night at On the Border for fajitas and margaritas constitutes experiencing an exotic culture.


No, they're not Ugly Americans (see my post on The Spectatorites and that ilk). They're Ugly Brits ... the genuine article, accept no substitutes. These are the people who invented Ugly Americanism and exported it to America. But with that quibble set aside, you are absolutely bang on the nail head. I'm not sure what a night at On the Border's English equivalent is, but I assume it involves really hot curries or possibly really bad paellas.
 
2013-02-20 11:13:52 AM

maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.


My parents used to threaten to sell me to the gypsies when I was younger.  This made me terrified of gypsies.  As an adult, I put most of that fear behind me until I saw the "gypsy wedding" shows on TLC.  Now, I am again terrified of gypsies and their huge dresses.
 
kab
2013-02-20 11:14:41 AM
It's almost as if personal responsibility has a potential downside.

Thank god we're striving to simply do away with it here in the god-blessed USA.
 
2013-02-20 11:15:00 AM

GalFriday: Sex trade isn't legal in Vegas.  It is legal in Nevada, but not within the city limits of Paradise or Las Vegas.


No one has told the prostitutes that since I was hit up by one in a mall within the city limits of Las Vegas just last month.

/she seemed a tad disappointed when I told her I was gay
//she offered me the card of a male prostitute
///I told her I didn't need it - I have grindr
 
2013-02-20 11:15:06 AM

Frothy Panties: Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage

Sounds like Albania...


Thats what my buddy said too, but I didnt go on that deployment. On another note my other Army buddy who is at Bragg was dating the little sister of the former Miss Albania Lejla Shallci
 
2013-02-20 11:15:31 AM

Andromeda: Oooooh boy.

American living in Amsterdam here (for 1.5 years now) and let me tell you, the city does not resemble what the article paints it like at all.  Only time I ever see prostitutes is if a friend is visiting and just HAS to see the Red Light District/ a Fark party.  Nor have I as a woman been accosted going home as the article says, or anything like that.

I further find it telling that this article doesn't say how much more prevalent human trafficking is in the Netherlands than in other countries.  I would be curious to hear if it's much higher as of the last 10 years or so.


I was there last week and it seemed to me that the lurid parts really only appeal to some kinds of tourists, and that the Dutch tolerate them because they're good for business.

/"Why yes I'm happy to speak English" feels as weird to get as it does to ask for in a shop
//I could literally eat stroopwafels until I explode
 
2013-02-20 11:16:04 AM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.


I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.
 
2013-02-20 11:16:07 AM

Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.


Armpit is a step up from "netherlands," isn't it?
 
2013-02-20 11:16:13 AM

Citrate1007: skullkrusher: Citrate1007: The Super Bowl is an event that creates the #1 highest concentration of illegal prostitution in the world.  So ya, Fark the Dutch.....

do people bring hookers in their bags with them?

Pimps move their hookers to whatever city it is in.


hehe probably not
 
2013-02-20 11:16:30 AM

DON.MAC: On of my ancestors left there before 1600. He settled inland of Sherwood Forest so I'm guessing he was running from someone with a navy.  He regained his title as English Lord and two generations later his grandson was Cromwell's right hand man with the whole choppy/choppy with Charles. I would love to know more.


Fascinating! I have a huge thing for UK history, and would be massively interested if someone in my family were that closely involved in major events too.
 
2013-02-20 11:16:52 AM
Written by Nigel Powers?

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-02-20 11:17:40 AM

Onkel Buck: I had a good time in Amsterdam...I think.


Don't believe your friends in such matters.
 
2013-02-20 11:17:45 AM

Where wolf: It's a huge problem in Georgia, specifically the I-75 corridor.


It's a huge problem everywhere in the US. When it isn't the "Asian massage" racket, it's gangs like MS-13 running underage prostitutes and keeping them as slaves because they fear deportation. Our demonization of illegal immigration has an awful lot to do with how these criminals continue their operations. I've often thought a blanket amnesty and green card to anyone who turn's states' evidence on these creeps might help.
 
2013-02-20 11:17:54 AM

CygnusDarius: theflatline: CygnusDarius: Onkel Buck: maggoo: Arkanaut: Also, I thought the armpit of Europe is still Albania.

No, Romenia.

One word: gypsies.

I had more problems with gypsies in Hungary. Begging ass vermin.

I vote Bosnia for armpit of Europe. Smelled like death(for obvious reasons), burning tires,  and rotting cabbage

I'd say the majority of the former Soviet satellite-states (with a few notable exceptions) because anything the soviets touched -with their tanks- turned to shiat.

On my end of the world I will submit Caracas in Venezuela or Buena Ventura in Colombia, and 90% of Panama.

If now we're doing this for Latin America, my own country (Mexico) is probably that part of the backside that is not the back, but it's not the ass, either. The utter stupidity of 3/4 of my own government and some of my own people has made me realize I prefer to describe myself as a 'citizen of the world' instead of Mexican, for the most part.


I worked for a Latin American internet marketing company, that had offices in six countries, and occasionally they would need someone to fly out to some random latin country for a client meet and greet, which I did not mind, cause usually I was sent to Buenos Aires.  I was sent often because of the 70 employees, maybe ten of us had american passports, so no visas needed to be secured for us.

They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia.
 
2013-02-20 11:17:58 AM

gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems.  As far as I know.


The sex trade is illegal in Vegas, and trafficking is actually pretty bad there:   http://www.humantrafficking.org/updates/529
 
2013-02-20 11:18:06 AM

gingerjet: GalFriday: Sex trade isn't legal in Vegas.  It is legal in Nevada, but not within the city limits of Paradise or Las Vegas.

No one has told the prostitutes that since I was hit up by one in a mall within the city limits of Las Vegas just last month.

/she seemed a tad disappointed when I told her I was gay
//she offered me the card of a male prostitute
///I told her I didn't need it - I have grindr


You are telling me there is illegal prostitution in Las Vegas!?!
 
2013-02-20 11:18:21 AM
That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.
 
2013-02-20 11:18:43 AM

Arkanaut: There are two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.


Came for this :)

/will still read the rest of the thread
 
2013-02-20 11:18:57 AM

theflatline: 2. Canadians they always say "hi i am canadian, not american" and annoyingly refer to americans as yanks, they get drunk and unruly, or just do something assholeish and say "its cool dude, I am canadian".


As the duly appointed flagbearer for my people I will admit there are people here who seriously think pulling this shiat works. I'm effusively polite and get falling-down drunk in my hotel room to compensate.
 
2013-02-20 11:18:58 AM

Moopy Mac: Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.


And cabdrivers are even a bigger one.
 
2013-02-20 11:20:55 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


Wingnut douchebags are just sad.  Strike three, aaaaand, ignore.
 
2013-02-20 11:21:16 AM

traylor: That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.


I've been on some buses in Europe that would make a high school locker room smell like a rose garden in a Febreze factory
 
2013-02-20 11:21:45 AM

Gosling: The Netherlands is not the armpit of Europe.

Moldova is the armpit of Europe.


I think we have managed to establish in this thread that Europe has more stinking armpits than a redneck family reunion in South Alabama. But as the curate said to the bishop when the bishop said that he was afraid they had given the curate a bad egg, on the contrary, My Lord, bits of it are excellent.

One of my favourite famous  Punch cartoons, ever.
 
2013-02-20 11:21:58 AM

Moopy Mac: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.

I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.


shot while riding bicycle

Why think when you can Google?
 
2013-02-20 11:25:21 AM

Karac: gilgigamesh: The thing of it is, Vegas was able to legalize the sex trade without all these problems. As far as I know.

Prostitition is not legal in Las Vegas. Nevada laws on the matter differ from county to county; the ones which contain Vegas, Reno, and the majority of the population in the state do not allow it.

If fly to Vegas for the weekend and want to find a legal whore, you're going to need to rent a car, get directions, and drive for at least a half hour. If you want to do the same in Amsterdam, all you probably have to do is get on the subway.


Do they have a subway in amsterdam?

All those canals....
 
2013-02-20 11:26:39 AM
What American hipsters think of Holland: Weed Tulips, Hookers Outlet Malls, perfect Utopia of freedom Christian Reformed Churches. What Holland really looks like: Underage runaways Hipsters, Sex Trafficking Abstenance, Forced prostitution Pickle factory, the knowledge that you've become the armpit of Europe West Michigan.

/fixed
 
2013-02-20 11:26:53 AM

Onkel Buck: traylor: That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.

I've been on some buses in Europe that would make a high school locker room smell like a rose garden in a Febreze factory


Protip: stay in the front half of your bus -- so that you can avoid the smell of the homeless people who are free-riding in the back part of the bus.
 
2013-02-20 11:27:18 AM
HairBolus , I am glad that I am  not the only one here who remembers the National Lampoon.

/Grew up reading that mag.
 
2013-02-20 11:27:25 AM

theflatline: They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia.


Funny enough, my experience with Mexico city was a little different. Sure, I'm not used to the rush of time everyone seems to be used to down there, and then there's the taxi drivers, and the insane bus drivers, not mention of the metro station on rush hour (the smell of armpit and Mexican Salaryman depression is horrible), and everyone seems to want to charge your ridiculous amounts for anything. But, I managed nicely over there, met some cool people, and had the chance to party once or twice down there. Plus, there's them cool sights to see. Working there, however, was/will be an interesting experience. Much more competitive than my native Hermosillo.

By far my worst experience was Belize, but that was because I was stuck in a tourist bus, and even today I still hope to believe that Belize is a nice country, with great people, and lovely vistas, but what they managed to show me in that your bus was utter shiat. The people were nice and friendly, and I tried to avoid playing the tourist card as many times as possible.
 
2013-02-20 11:28:44 AM

clane: Liberals are funny and sad at the same time...
[pnsexplosion.com image 600x450]


Oh please, that's a photo of a Libertarian Paulite.
 
2013-02-20 11:29:07 AM

BrynnMacFlynn: DON.MAC: On of my ancestors left there before 1600. He settled inland of Sherwood Forest so I'm guessing he was running from someone with a navy.  He regained his title as English Lord and two generations later his grandson was Cromwell's right hand man with the whole choppy/choppy with Charles. I would love to know more.

Seriously thought you were talking about a Crusader Kings 2 playthrough. If you've never heard of the game, you should check it out.


Oh, man. I downloaded the demo to that game from Steam. That is a lot of micromanagement, but it looks so freaking awesome. One of these days I'm going to have to banish my family from the house so I can sit down and really figure that game out.
 
2013-02-20 11:29:16 AM

Onkel Buck: traylor: That armpit thing is true.

My ex GF learned Dutch at the university and one summer she went on a trip to the Netherlands and lived with a Dutch family for a week, then with an other family for an other week. She said they were quite average folks, and the thing that she would remember the most about them is their strong body odor. They had a bath once a week and ate a lot of stinky cheese.

I've been on some buses in Europe that would make a high school locker room smell like a rose garden in a Febreze factory


  I assure you, your local American Grayhound isn't smelling rosy fresh.    I've ridden in buses in every corner of the world, and they all stink.   Buses in general involves people sitting in a stagnant environment and stewing in their own filth for extended amounts of time.     Further, it's a cheap mode of transportation, so it tends to involve people who actually work for a living and bodies at work tend to emit odors.
 
2013-02-20 11:32:33 AM

CygnusDarius: theflatline: They sent me to Mexico City for two weeks and man that place was rough, and this is coming from a guy who has seen the seamy underbelly of Colombia.

Funny enough, my experience with Mexico city was a little different. Sure, I'm not used to the rush of time everyone seems to be used to down there, and then there's the taxi drivers, and the insane bus drivers, not mention of the metro station on rush hour (the smell of armpit and Mexican Salaryman depression is horrible), and everyone seems to want to charge your ridiculous amounts for anything. But, I managed nicely over there, met some cool people, and had the chance to party once or twice down there. Plus, there's them cool sights to see. Working there, however, was/will be an interesting experience. Much more competitive than my native Hermosillo.

By far my worst experience was Belize, but that was because I was stuck in a tourist bus, and even today I still hope to believe that Belize is a nice country, with great people, and lovely vistas, but what they managed to show me in that your bus was utter shiat. The people were nice and friendly, and I tried to avoid playing the tourist card as many times as possible.


Same here.   I went to Mexico City expecting a horror show, but ended up having a delightful time.    If you love street food culture, it's right up there with Southeast Asia.
 
2013-02-20 11:32:47 AM

neversubmit: Moopy Mac: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Andromeda: I feel perfectly comfortable cycling home at 3am while alone as do all my friends, for example, and so does everyone I know: it's that safe, and you could never do that in the US.

In the vast majority of the US, yes you can.

I'm trying to think of the places that you can't do that in the US. Very limited neighborhoods in US cities. Hell, bicyclists are a bigger threat to your health at 3AM in NYC than any mugger.

shot while riding bicycle

Why think when you can Google?


Wow, 8 articles about one shooting in West Palm Beach. A shooting that took place at 12:45pm and not at 3am.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. That it is dangerous to ride your bike in most/all of the USA because....
 
2013-02-20 11:33:07 AM
The Dutch have gone downhill ever since they conquered England.
 
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