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(NPR)   Almost anything can be purchased online, except a new car from an Internet-only dealership. Turns out sleazeball dickwad car dealership owners are in bed with sleazeball dickwad politicians, thus ensuring you're screwed forever   (npr.org) divider line 324
    More: Obvious, internet, National Automobile Dealers Association, AutoNation, state sales tax  
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11609 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 2:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 05:59:22 PM

nolanomad: Girion47: Why wouldn't I go for price? Your shop certainly isn't the place I'm going to be using, I'm going to do the maintenance on my own unless it is warranty work, and then the Manufacturer is going to be paying for that repair. So as far as I can tell, price is what the deciding factor is.

No, you're absolutely right, I see the error of my ways.

Oh hey, theoretical situation for you... you buy your car, save the few extra bucks, get the best deal... six months down the road there's a recall, the dealer has to have your vehicle overnight. You going to go back to that crime-ridden neighborhood and hope they have a loaner for you? Somehow I doubt it, you'd go to a place where you weren't concerned about random bullets.... and hey, that's us. However, a Mr. Jones got here at the same time with the same recall. Problem is, I only have one loaner... and Mr. Jones bought his last 5 vehicles here. One guess who gets that loaner.

Seeing any value yet, bright boy?


And really, your "poor part of town" analogy fails miserably, in my city I have 2 official subaru dealers, have another 60 miles away, and yet a couple more in Cincy and Indy.  I'm not dependent on one dealer, and they're aware of that.   Save your scare tactics for someone that didn't work in SE DC.
 
2013-02-20 06:06:00 PM

nolanomad: Seeing any value yet, bright boy?


It's absolutely hilarious how incapable you are at looking at yourself objectively. Honestly, I'm not surprised that you're a car salesman.

Please, give me all the info that you have that it's only possible to get a lower price than you in horrible, crime ridden areas. That seems to be your main reasoning against not going with your price; not having to deal with unsavory types nearby.

I only care about purchase price. Give me a price lower than anyone else. If you can't, then you don't get my money. If warranty work or a recall come up, then I'm taking my car to whatever dealer in whatever neighborhood I want. They'll all take me in. Loaner? I have another car and 2 motorcycles. I have my own loaners.

Give me the best price or you don't get my business. I have zero interest in having any sort of relationship with any single particular dealership for any reason other than a single purchase. I'm not coming to overpriced dealers for service or parts. I do my own service and buy superior 3rd party parts for repairs or service. New spark plugs? There's better than stock options. A new timing belt? Gee, we live in this information age and I know how to find who supplies your belts and thus who to buy directly from. OE quality or more, lower price, no hassle.

Give me the best price. I want nothing more from you. Nothing.

You are not my friend. Through the course of your job you're going to try to get as much of my money as possible. That makes you the enemy.

nolanomad: Imagine if what you do for a living was reviled and mocked, despite the fact that none of the stereotypes apply. You'd get annoyed too.


You choose what you do for a living. Stop trying to martyr yourself. Nothing is forcing you into this career. Btw, though, you're proving some of the the stereotypes to be true.

But ok, you want to play that game?  I work for oil refineries. Your move.
 
2013-02-20 06:28:16 PM

nolanomad: Oh hey, theoretical situation for you... you buy your car, save the few extra bucks, get the best deal... six months down the road there's a recall, the dealer has to have your vehicle overnight. You going to go back to that crime-ridden neighborhood and hope they have a loaner for you? Somehow I doubt it, you'd go to a place where you weren't concerned about random bullets.... and hey, that's us. However, a Mr. Jones got here at the same time with the same recall. Problem is, I only have one loaner... and Mr. Jones bought his last 5 vehicles here. One guess who gets that loaner.

Seeing any value yet, bright boy?



So your idea of value is "you're going to buy a car from us for a higher price, and you're going to LIKE it! And don't even think of going to any of those five dealers across the street or next door, because that's the bad part of town and you're going to get shot if you even drive past. Oh, and our cars are built so poorly that you should expect to have a recall within your first year, but don't worry, we have one loaner car, because we can't afford a second. Wait, where are you going? Don't you walk away from me when I'm still talking! HEY YOU RAN OVER MY FOOT! WAIT LET ME SELL YOU SOMETHING!"
 
2013-02-20 06:31:11 PM

RandomRandom: If and when this litigation/ regulation occurs, it would seem to be a textbook example of a constitutional commerce clause violation. That being, the state would be giving preferential treatment to local state businesses over equivalent businesses in other states


That is what my GED in law says, curious if it has ever been challenged.


nolanomad: Martyr might be a strong word... it's just sad that people go for the "best price", end up at a place that can only sell by price, because they aren't good enough to sell by product and quality


What about dealers that sell the same product?

If you are factoring in how nice they are for recalls, you are buying the wrong car.

I have bought three new cars in my life and my last one is the only time I am still within a 5 hour drive a year after I bought it, so I am not going to pay extra on the off chance their "hand holding" is better an I stick around.
 
2013-02-20 06:32:43 PM

nolanomad: However, a Mr. Jones got here at the same time with the same recall. Problem is, I only have one loaner... and Mr. Jones bought his last 5 vehicles here. One guess who gets that loaner.



OK, theoretical situation time:

Against my better judgment, I do buy a car from you. At recall time, I bring the car in, and arrive at the same time as Mr. Jones who bought five cars from your dealership. So, who gets your one and only loaner? Me, with my one purchase, or Mr. Jones with his five?
 
2013-02-20 06:53:12 PM

nolanomad: Then by all means, go to the one that had a drive-by in front of it last week, that closes at sundown, and will forget you exist after the purchase. In the mean time, we'll take care of our customers, provide shuttle service, loaners, good service, and hey did you know- sometimes, if you build that relationship, the dealer will give you discounts on future visits? No, of course you didn't because you have no clue what a business relationship means.


LOL.  Yeah, sure.  I trust a car dealer to have a business relationship with me.  Who the fark do you think you are kidding?
 
2013-02-20 06:54:30 PM

TotesCrayCray: nolanomad: Imagine if what you do for a living was reviled and mocked, despite the fact that none of the stereotypes apply. You'd get annoyed too.


How much are you charging for the floor mats and the underspray these days?
 
2013-02-20 06:56:36 PM

BiffDangler: TotesCrayCray: nolanomad: Imagine if what you do for a living was reviled and mocked, despite the fact that none of the stereotypes apply. You'd get annoyed too.

How much are you charging for the floor mats and the underspray these days?


Why'd you quote me? He's the one who said it.

>_>
 
2013-02-20 07:02:54 PM

BiffDangler: nolanomad: Then by all means, go to the one that had a drive-by in front of it last week, that closes at sundown, and will forget you exist after the purchase. In the mean time, we'll take care of our customers, provide shuttle service, loaners, good service, and hey did you know- sometimes, if you build that relationship, the dealer will give you discounts on future visits? No, of course you didn't because you have no clue what a business relationship means.

LOL.  Yeah, sure.  I trust a car dealer to have a business relationship with me.  Who the fark do you think you are kidding?


Um, all the people who greet me by name when they come in for service? All the repeat business we do? I'm kidding all of them I guess. I have to say, you go to some dealership, get a bad experience, and suddenly we're all terrible, conniving thieving lying whargarbl. I mean lord. For a group of people that are usually at least a little open minded, I'm impressed. But don't let me show you the other side of the story, sorry to suggest that we're not all bad and that you just might be wrong. Was just looking to weigh in on a subject that I find too one-sided. Incidentally, for those couple of people who mentioned oil companies, I live in SE Louisiana, but I wouldn't judge youy- maybe whoever it is at BP who cut corners, but you know, if I ran into you and you mentioned your line of work, I wouldn't judge. But t looks like everyone else does here. Good to know. As I said before, unless you've worked in the business, you have no clue. Sorry to have bothered you.
 
2013-02-20 07:25:00 PM

RandomRandom: So when Tesla starts to sell lots of cars over the internet, directly from California into states in which Tesla has absolutely no presence, won't the local dealers (or the state governments as their proxy) litigate or regulate against Tesla?

If and when this litigation/ regulation occurs, it would seem to be a textbook example of a constitutional commerce clause violation.  That being, the state would be giving preferential treatment to local state businesses over equivalent businesses in other states.


Already happening.
 
2013-02-20 07:26:25 PM

nolanomad: but I wouldn't judge youy- maybe whoever it is at BP who cut corners


When you buy gas or have to hear about and/or experience oil spills, you don't directly deal with the person who over-charges for gasoline/caused the spill. When car salesmen try to fark us over or lie to us to get our money, we're dealing directly with the person in the wrong. There's a BIG difference.

I've personally experience some of the garbage that people have complained about in this thread. It's not our imaginations. It actually happens. But if you want to take your toys and go home because you have no rebuttal to our points, then go for it.
 
2013-02-20 07:29:55 PM

nolanomad: I wouldn't judge. But t looks like everyone else does here. Good to know. As I said before, unless you've worked in the business, you have no clue. Sorry to have bothered you.


By the way, that martyrdom bullshiat doesn't work on us. It's just pathetic to try to play the "woe is me" and "why are you so mean to me? [while I ignore the reasons why]" cards and expect us to feel bad.
 
2013-02-20 07:50:12 PM
okay was going to walk away, but I guess I'm a sucker for abuse... let's see, shouldn't buy a vehicle that has recalls? Pick a manufacturer. http://www.city-data.com/forum/automotive/1744967-auto-recall-list-do n t-buy-any.html  Underspray? B.S. that no self-respecting dealership does/sells, because even if it were real, it would void your dealership. As far as price goes, yep, sometimes our prices are a bit higher... let's say we can't come up with that extra $200 that Anytown Motors claims they can. Assuming a 5 year finance (typical), you're talking $4 a month to spend your money locally. And before you go on about how all that money goes to the manufacturer no matter where you buy, bear in that a two line dealership (like ours) can have 100 employees. So some of that money stays right here. Go ahead and say you don't give a crap about your neighbors and their income, you're welcome to be indifferent. What did I miss?
 
2013-02-20 07:52:05 PM
ack, void your warranty. oops.
 
2013-02-20 08:05:53 PM
Man, I gotta say, I love working for a company that has fleet perks from the major manufacturers. I go in, tell them who I work for and it's Dealer invoice plus 0.4%. If the dealer doesn't want to play ball they get a nice call from their corporate offices after our corporate fleet manager calls them.

The only car I didn't get this on was one that wasn't included in the plan (high performance car).

Takes a shiatload of pressure of me and my salesman. He gets a guaranteed sale and some commission, I get my car for a great price. Win/Win.
 
2013-02-20 08:08:56 PM

nolanomad: I have to say, you go to some dealership, get a bad experience, and suddenly we're all terrible, conniving thieving lying whargarbl.



No, it's more like we have 10+ bad experiences and one good experience, then you come in with a bunch of herp derp about how it's all in our imagination, no car dealer in the history of the universe has ever been anything but a perfect saint, and if we don't like it we can go risk getting shot at the dealer across the road.

Also, you never did finish your earlier theoretical situation. You claim that if we buy nothing form you, the guy who bought five cars is going to get priority for the one and only loaner your dealer can afford, but you never clarified whether buying one car will give us priority over the guy who bought five.
 
2013-02-20 08:09:13 PM

Trocadero: I'd still need a real test drive. Same reason you don't buy sex toys online.


ewwwww
 
2013-02-20 08:13:24 PM

nolanomad: Underspray? B.S. that no self-respecting dealership does/sells, because even if it were real, it would void your dealership.


Oh, it's real. My current car is one that I bought used from a dealer who got it as a trade in. They're the largest dealer of that brand within 50+ miles and they own other nearby dealerships too. They not only "offer" underspray but tried to get me to buy it.

nolanomad: Go ahead and say you don't give a crap about your neighbors and their income, you're welcome to be indifferent. What did I miss?


Likewise. Salesmen try to get as much money out of us through lying, they dick us around, and treat us as a walking dollar sign instead of a human being. They start the process of farking their neighbors out of their income.
 
2013-02-20 08:16:41 PM

the ha ha guy: nolanomad: I have to say, you go to some dealership, get a bad experience, and suddenly we're all terrible, conniving thieving lying whargarbl.


No, it's more like we have 10+ bad experiences and one good experience, then you come in with a bunch of herp derp about how it's all in our imagination, no car dealer in the history of the universe has ever been anything but a perfect saint, and if we don't like it we can go risk getting shot at the dealer across the road.

Also, you never did finish your earlier theoretical situation. You claim that if we buy nothing form you, the guy who bought five cars is going to get priority for the one and only loaner your dealer can afford, but you never clarified whether buying one car will give us priority over the guy who bought five.


Please show me where I said no dealership is like that. Really, show me, I want to see where that was said by me. What I DID say, is that we're not all like that and got jumped on. As to the theoretical question, the 5 car guy gets the loaner, rather obvious- just like a million dollar client will get better service than a 100k one. But if you *had* bought a car here, I would *try* to find something for you to use- say, a loaner in the body shop 'casue it's scratched or ask a used car manager nicely for a used car.

You come into my dealership with another dealer's name on the back of your car? I guess you should ask them for a loaner. After all, they got you *such* a great deal...
 
2013-02-20 08:19:04 PM

nolanomad: the ha ha guy: nolanomad: I have to say, you go to some dealership, get a bad experience, and suddenly we're all terrible, conniving thieving lying whargarbl.


No, it's more like we have 10+ bad experiences and one good experience, then you come in with a bunch of herp derp about how it's all in our imagination, no car dealer in the history of the universe has ever been anything but a perfect saint, and if we don't like it we can go risk getting shot at the dealer across the road.

Also, you never did finish your earlier theoretical situation. You claim that if we buy nothing form you, the guy who bought five cars is going to get priority for the one and only loaner your dealer can afford, but you never clarified whether buying one car will give us priority over the guy who bought five.

Please show me where I said no dealership is like that. Really, show me, I want to see where that was said by me. What I DID say, is that we're not all like that and got jumped on. As to the theoretical question, the 5 car guy gets the loaner, rather obvious- just like a million dollar client will get better service than a 100k one. But if you *had* bought a car here, I would *try* to find something for you to use- say, a loaner in the body shop 'casue it's scratched or ask a used car manager nicely for a used car.

You come into my dealership with another dealer's name on the back of your car? I guess you should ask them for a loaner. After all, they got you *such* a great deal...


Man, as an impartial observer, you're not coming off the greatest.

I have an honest question: why do dealers get so pissy when I asked them to take the sticker off of my car? If they're not giving me something (free oil change/tire rotation etc) why should I be a driving billboard for them?
 
2013-02-20 08:19:20 PM

TotesCrayCray: nolanomad: Underspray? B.S. that no self-respecting dealership does/sells, because even if it were real, it would void your dealership.

Oh, it's real. My current car is one that I bought used from a dealer who got it as a trade in. They're the largest dealer of that brand within 50+ miles and they own other nearby dealerships too. They not only "offer" underspray but tried to get me to buy it.

nolanomad: Go ahead and say you don't give a crap about your neighbors and their income, you're welcome to be indifferent. What did I miss?

Likewise. Salesmen try to get as much money out of us through lying, they dick us around, and treat us as a walking dollar sign instead of a human being. They start the process of farking their neighbors out of their income.


Sorry you've heard different, I've been told under spray will void a GM warranty. Perhaps different manufacturers have different policies. Sorry to hear you've only dealt with *those* kind of salesmen. We don't have any of those.
 
2013-02-20 08:21:45 PM

Dougie AXP: nolanomad: the ha ha guy: nolanomad: I have to say, you go to some dealership, get a bad experience, and suddenly we're all terrible, conniving thieving lying whargarbl.


No, it's more like we have 10+ bad experiences and one good experience, then you come in with a bunch of herp derp about how it's all in our imagination, no car dealer in the history of the universe has ever been anything but a perfect saint, and if we don't like it we can go risk getting shot at the dealer across the road.

Also, you never did finish your earlier theoretical situation. You claim that if we buy nothing form you, the guy who bought five cars is going to get priority for the one and only loaner your dealer can afford, but you never clarified whether buying one car will give us priority over the guy who bought five.

Please show me where I said no dealership is like that. Really, show me, I want to see where that was said by me. What I DID say, is that we're not all like that and got jumped on. As to the theoretical question, the 5 car guy gets the loaner, rather obvious- just like a million dollar client will get better service than a 100k one. But if you *had* bought a car here, I would *try* to find something for you to use- say, a loaner in the body shop 'casue it's scratched or ask a used car manager nicely for a used car.

You come into my dealership with another dealer's name on the back of your car? I guess you should ask them for a loaner. After all, they got you *such* a great deal...

Man, as an impartial observer, you're not coming off the greatest.

I have an honest question: why do dealers get so pissy when I asked them to take the sticker off of my car? If they're not giving me something (free oil change/tire rotation etc) why should I be a driving billboard for them?


They shouldn't. I've never seen anyone get pissy where I work if that request is made. As far as my attitude, I would guess that's just a reaction to being told how terrible we *all* are when I know it's not true.
 
2013-02-20 08:23:01 PM

the ha ha guy: No, it's more like we have 10+ bad experiences and one good experience,


Exactly. Here's one of my recent bad ones.

I went looking for a new car. I was interested in the BR-Z/FRS after reading up on it. No Subaru dealer in my area had one. The Scion dealer had 3 in stock according to their website. So I went there to look and drive one to see how I like it.

I get the manager of the place. I told him what I'm interested in. Oh, they only have one in stock. Their website shows what they expect to get in the future but not what they actually have. WTF? Whatever. As I'm telling him what I'm interested in, and that I'm looking at other cars in the price/performance range, I mention that I wanted a manual transmission.

He spends the next 10 minutes being very confused why I would ever want one and trying to convince me that I want an automatic instead. Not for any performance reason, but just because. No, I want what I said I wanted. He seemed deadset on getting me to buy the 1 that they had in stock. Even though I explicitly said that I'm still in the looking stage and haven't decided on anything. Even though the one they had in stock didn't have the transmission, color, or trim level that I said I was interested in.

He says that he wants to check on something and disappears for almost 10 minutes. I'm staring out the window and I see him pull up in a white Scion TC. He comes in and wants me to test drive it.

"... I said that I'm looking for a black or blue sports car. Like the FRS or a WRX or a Genesis."
"It's kinda sporty"
*facepalm*

The entire exchange from that guy was him trying to convince me to buy something, anything that day. He didn't listen to a word that I said. Fark him and his cronies.

This is also a dealer that I know for a fact does underspray.
 
2013-02-20 08:23:46 PM

Dougie AXP: Man, I gotta say, I love working for a company that has fleet perks from the major manufacturers. I go in, tell them who I work for and it's Dealer invoice plus 0.4%. If the dealer doesn't want to play ball they get a nice call from their corporate offices after our corporate fleet manager calls them.

The only car I didn't get this on was one that wasn't included in the plan (high performance car).

Takes a shiatload of pressure of me and my salesman. He gets a guaranteed sale and some commission, I get my car for a great price. Win/Win.


Yep, supplier pricing, x plan, call it what you will. Darned convenient.
 
2013-02-20 08:31:02 PM

nolanomad: You come into my dealership with another dealer's name on the back of your car? I guess you should ask them for a loaner. After all, they got you *such* a great deal...


Seeing how you make most of your money from overpriced services, and you seem to harp on forming relationships with your customers, you sure don't seem very willing to service anyone and everyone who comes your way. Real good way of being good to your neighbors, you have there.

nolanomad: Go ahead and say you don't give a crap about your neighbors


Heh.

Oh, and by the way, the last time I bought a car the removal of that sticker and license plate frame was the first thing that I did. The next car I buy will have a "no sticker and no frame" as part of the sales agreement. Save your money and give me one less thing to pitch into the landfill.
 
2013-02-20 08:37:18 PM

nolanomad: Please show me where I said no dealership is like that. Really, show me, I want to see where that was said by me. What I DID say, is that we're not all like that and got jumped on.



No, you said that that no salesman fits the stereotype.

nolanomad: Imagine if what you do for a living was reviled and mocked, despite the fact that none of the stereotypes apply.

nolanomad: Underspray? B.S. that no self-respecting dealership does/sells, because even if it were real, it would void your dealership.



So, who am I to believe? Mr. Anonymous Internet Manager who sells cars so great that the manufacturer couldn't survive without a government bailout? Or the hundreds of dealerships within a 50 mile radius where nearly every single salesman goes into the "you're an idiot customer and you don't know what you want" mode before I even step out of my car?


nolanomad: You come into my dealership with another dealer's name on the back of your car? I guess you should ask them for a loaner. After all, they got you *such* a great deal...



When competition is so tight that I can literally see five other dealers from the parking lot, two of which sell the same brand and model of car, why should I choose a dealer solely on customer service that consists of standing in front of my car yelling "you're an idiot if you don't pull out your wallet and buy this car right now" deals through my windshield as I'm trying to leave?
 
2013-02-20 08:46:26 PM

TotesCrayCray: Real good way of being good to your neighbors, you have there.



Ah, so now you're moving into making the customer feel guilty about not buying form you. I'd bet that in person, you use lines similar to "I haven't made any sales all week and if I don't make a sale today my wife will have to dig bread out of a dumpster to feed our children."

/Yes, I really did hear that exact quote from a salesman once.
//it didn't help that he said this while wearing a freshly pressed suit, gold watch, and mentioned that he just ordered a similar model car to the one my friend was looking at.
 
2013-02-20 08:50:09 PM

the ha ha guy: nolanomad: Please show me where I said no dealership is like that. Really, show me, I want to see where that was said by me. What I DID say, is that we're not all like that and got jumped on.


No, you said that that no salesman fits the stereotype.

nolanomad: Imagine if what you do for a living was reviled and mocked, despite the fact that none of the stereotypes apply.
nolanomad: Underspray? B.S. that no self-respecting dealership does/sells, because even if it were real, it would void your dealership.


Well, the first starts with "imagine if you" and it should have ended with "to you". My bad to phrase that wrong. And I said "no self-respecting" I didn't say they're all like that. As mentioned, have been told a couple different times that under spray voids GM warranties, by GM people. I assumed (yep, probably bad move oops) that if it applies here it applies in general. My bad. Anyhow, seeing as I have referred to other dealerships being bad, I kind of acknowledged that the bad ones exist. And to reiterate? The bad ones are bad, so can only sell price. A good dealership can sell product, so you understand why that $300 feature (or whatever) is worth the money.
 
2013-02-20 08:50:09 PM

the ha ha guy: Ah, so now you're moving into making the customer feel guilty about not buying form you


Why do people keep quoting me for shiat that the other guy said? Unless you were agreeing with my sentiment, in which your phrasing of the response seems a bit awkward.

>_>
 
2013-02-20 08:52:52 PM

the ha ha guy: TotesCrayCray: Real good way of being good to your neighbors, you have there.


Ah, so now you're moving into making the customer feel guilty about not buying form you. I'd bet that in person, you use lines similar to "I haven't made any sales all week and if I don't make a sale today my wife will have to dig bread out of a dumpster to feed our children."

/Yes, I really did hear that exact quote from a salesman once.
//it didn't help that he said this while wearing a freshly pressed suit, gold watch, and mentioned that he just ordered a similar model car to the one my friend was looking at.


um, I don't sell cars. That's what the salesmen do. But back when I *did* sell cars, I wouldn't have touched a line like that with a ten foot pole.
 
2013-02-20 09:02:06 PM
Fark: Clips from last week's Planet Money stories, today!
 
2013-02-20 09:03:17 PM

TotesCrayCray: the ha ha guy: Ah, so now you're moving into making the customer feel guilty about not buying form you

Why do people keep quoting me for shiat that the other guy said? Unless you were agreeing with my sentiment, in which your phrasing of the response seems a bit awkward.

>_>



My bad, I didn't have him highlighted and wasn't paying attention to the usernames. Sorry if I caused any offense.
 
2013-02-20 09:07:58 PM

the ha ha guy: TotesCrayCray: the ha ha guy: Ah, so now you're moving into making the customer feel guilty about not buying form you

Why do people keep quoting me for shiat that the other guy said? Unless you were agreeing with my sentiment, in which your phrasing of the response seems a bit awkward.

>_>


My bad, I didn't have him highlighted and wasn't paying attention to the usernames. Sorry if I caused any offense.


I suspect he's somewhere between puzzled and amused, but I could be completely wrong.

the ha ha guy: TotesCrayCray: Real good way of being good to your neighbors, you have there.


Ah, so now you're moving into making the customer feel guilty about not buying form you. I'd bet that in person, you use lines similar to "I haven't made any sales all week and if I don't make a sale today my wife will have to dig bread out of a dumpster to feed our children."

/Yes, I really did hear that exact quote from a salesman once.
//it didn't help that he said this while wearing a freshly pressed suit, gold watch, and mentioned that he just ordered a similar model car to the one my friend was looking at.


Oh and speaking of, we have the guy with the overpriced watch. Or rather watches, he apparently collects them, and at $1500 or a pop each I really don't get it. off topic, but *shrug*
 
2013-02-20 09:09:42 PM
okay, THAT post is a mess. sorry about that.
 
2013-02-20 09:12:36 PM

nolanomad: Anyhow, seeing as I have referred to other dealerships being bad, I kind of acknowledged that the bad ones exist. And to reiterate? The bad ones are bad, so can only sell price. A good dealership can sell product, so you understand why that $300 feature (or whatever) is worth the money.



In my experience, the good dealerships typically don't deal in cheap cars, and the cheap dealerships are so competitive that an honest dealer selling the same brand wouldn't last a week.
 
2013-02-20 09:15:14 PM

the ha ha guy: My bad, I didn't have him highlighted and wasn't paying attention to the usernames. Sorry if I caused any offense.


No offense taken. Just a mixture of amusement and bemusement. I figured that something like that happened.
 
2013-02-20 09:34:18 PM

liam76: RandomRandom: If and when this litigation/ regulation occurs, it would seem to be a textbook example of a constitutional commerce clause violation. That being, the state would be giving preferential treatment to local state businesses over equivalent businesses in other states

That is what my GED in law says, curious if it has ever been challenged.


A GED man?  Respect.  Bet that cost more than my law degree from Strayer.

Here's my poorly educated guess as to how this plays out.  The local dealers will fight Tesla in various states, meaning this will eventually make it to the supremes.  Hard to say how the current court would rule on this, they've been all over the map.  Roberts is a real wimp, Kennedy seems to flip a coin, and the 3 wingnuts would seem a lock to rule for the local dealers, while the centrists (no, not even one would qualify as a true liberal) would seem most likely to go with federal over states, meaning Tesla.

But this probably won't reach federal court for awhile, so by the time it reaches the supremes some of the more states-righty justices may have gone to ground.

/here's hoping
 
2013-02-20 09:58:38 PM

the ha ha guy: nolanomad: Anyhow, seeing as I have referred to other dealerships being bad, I kind of acknowledged that the bad ones exist. And to reiterate? The bad ones are bad, so can only sell price. A good dealership can sell product, so you understand why that $300 feature (or whatever) is worth the money.


In my experience, the good dealerships typically don't deal in cheap cars, and the cheap dealerships are so competitive that an honest dealer selling the same brand wouldn't last a week.


You speak a lot of truth. Buick and GMC are nicer, wouldn't call them high end, and I can say from experience that part of our job as a sales force is explaining to a customer that yes, in fact they're being lied to by the other guy. Sad, really.
 
2013-02-20 10:19:04 PM
As someone who just spent the last 4 frickin' days buying a new car, I'm really....glad it's over, because man it's a completely miserable process.
 
2013-02-20 10:20:42 PM

nolanomad: the ha ha guy: nolanomad: Please show me where I said no dealership is like that. Really, show me, I want to see where that was said by me. What I DID say, is that we're not all like that and got jumped on.


No, you said that that no salesman fits the stereotype.

nolanomad: Imagine if what you do for a living was reviled and mocked, despite the fact that none of the stereotypes apply.
nolanomad: Underspray? B.S. that no self-respecting dealership does/sells, because even if it were real, it would void your dealership.

Well, the first starts with "imagine if you" and it should have ended with "to you". My bad to phrase that wrong. And I said "no self-respecting" I didn't say they're all like that. As mentioned, have been told a couple different times that under spray voids GM warranties, by GM people. I assumed (yep, probably bad move oops) that if it applies here it applies in general. My bad. Anyhow, seeing as I have referred to other dealerships being bad, I kind of acknowledged that the bad ones exist. And to reiterate? The bad ones are bad, so can only sell price. A good dealership can sell product, so you understand why that $300 feature (or whatever) is worth the money.


Now I know you're full of shiat, a modification cannot VOID your warranty, all that can happen is the manufacturer(not the dealer) can deny the claim if the modification is shown to have caused the failure.

That's Law.
 
2013-02-20 10:23:56 PM

TotesCrayCray: the ha ha guy: No, it's more like we have 10+ bad experiences and one good experience,

Exactly. Here's one of my recent bad ones.

I went looking for a new car. I was interested in the BR-Z/FRS after reading up on it. No Subaru dealer in my area had one. The Scion dealer had 3 in stock according to their website. So I went there to look and drive one to see how I like it.

I get the manager of the place. I told him what I'm interested in. Oh, they only have one in stock. Their website shows what they expect to get in the future but not what they actually have. WTF? Whatever. As I'm telling him what I'm interested in, and that I'm looking at other cars in the price/performance range, I mention that I wanted a manual transmission.

He spends the next 10 minutes being very confused why I would ever want one and trying to convince me that I want an automatic instead. Not for any performance reason, but just because. No, I want what I said I wanted. He seemed deadset on getting me to buy the 1 that they had in stock. Even though I explicitly said that I'm still in the looking stage and haven't decided on anything. Even though the one they had in stock didn't have the transmission, color, or trim level that I said I was interested in.

He says that he wants to check on something and disappears for almost 10 minutes. I'm staring out the window and I see him pull up in a white Scion TC. He comes in and wants me to test drive it.

"... I said that I'm looking for a black or blue sports car. Like the FRS or a WRX or a Genesis."
"It's kinda sporty"
*facepalm*

The entire exchange from that guy was him trying to convince me to buy something, anything that day. He didn't listen to a word that I said. Fark him and his cronies.

This is also a dealer that I know for a fact does underspray.


I absolutely LOVE my WRX, and aside from the local dealers, I tend to get good service from Subaru as well.   Plus the modding/repair community is HUGE.   If you're interested and want to see a bunch of people talking about it, honestly and enthusiastically you should check out the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club.   They have local chapters that are usually selling the part you need for a lot cheaper than you can buy new and the noobie forum has a walk through with pics for whatever you could imagine doing to mod the car.

http://www.NASIOC.com
 
2013-02-20 10:39:19 PM
OK, CSB Time.

I Purchased a new motorcycle last week and there are 3 factory-approved dealers in the area.  I knew which model I want and went into all 3 of them, checked out the cleanliness of the service bays, apparel selection and the overall demeanor of the store.  After a trip to all 3, with 3 Sales manager business cards, I fire off an email to all 3, so all 3 can see each other's email requesting an OTD Cash price for the bike, first service and a mens and ladies shirt of my choice.

Dealer 1 writes back first, asks me how I am paying and that since the MSRP is the same for all the bikes that they should all be relatively the same price but that I should consider things like service and relationship.  I think to myself, Mmmkay.  You didnt' read my first email and if you came in $200 higher than the low bid, i might buy it from you anyways since you are a bit closer to me than the other dealers.  after a few days of annoying email exchange, not surprisingly, they come in $1k higher than the low bid

Dealer 2 comes back 3 hours after the email, remembers me, remembers my visit and itemizes the entire bid, waives a few fees and throws in a $200 shop/parts/accessories gift card

Dealer 3 waits a week and is $100 lower than dealer 1, $900 higher than dealer 2.

So yeah.  things like parts and service are important parts of the process and I will certainly consider that if it is an issue of splitting hairs.  If Dealer 2's shop looked like crap and they didn't have anyone there who knew the product, I'd probably have taken my business to dealer 1 and asked them to come down a bit.  Dealer 1 was a D-bag every step of the way.  Was happy to give my business to dealer 2.
 
2013-02-21 01:54:17 AM
Don't mind me. I'm in the market for a new car, and have never ever owned a new one from a dealership. So this thread is totally relevant to my interests and I need all of the CSBs I can read up on. Bookmarking.
 
2013-02-21 02:41:37 AM
I logged in just to say this......

"Not telling someone something and justifying it with "You never asked." isn't lying" - Great Janitor

You pieces of garbage are all the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission     What makes this even more funny is Wikipedia uses car dealers as the example.

Great Janitor you are truly a piece of s**t
 
2013-02-21 02:46:02 AM

Great Janitor: Babwa Wawa: Great Janitor: That's no different than going to the doctor after breaking your arm, seeing the doctor walk into the examine room and saying "Oh, yeah, everything's okay, gotta go!" and leave the hospital.


Just wanted to make sure you read my above comment
 
2013-02-21 03:17:47 AM

Girion47: nolanomad: the ha ha guy: nolanomad: Please show me where I said no dealership is like that. Really, show me, I want to see where that was said by me. What I DID say, is that we're not all like that and got jumped on.


No, you said that that no salesman fits the stereotype.

nolanomad: Imagine if what you do for a living was reviled and mocked, despite the fact that none of the stereotypes apply.
nolanomad: Underspray? B.S. that no self-respecting dealership does/sells, because even if it were real, it would void your dealership.

Well, the first starts with "imagine if you" and it should have ended with "to you". My bad to phrase that wrong. And I said "no self-respecting" I didn't say they're all like that. As mentioned, have been told a couple different times that under spray voids GM warranties, by GM people. I assumed (yep, probably bad move oops) that if it applies here it applies in general. My bad. Anyhow, seeing as I have referred to other dealerships being bad, I kind of acknowledged that the bad ones exist. And to reiterate? The bad ones are bad, so can only sell price. A good dealership can sell product, so you understand why that $300 feature (or whatever) is worth the money.

Now I know you're full of shiat, a modification cannot VOID your warranty, all that can happen is the manufacturer(not the dealer) can deny the claim if the modification is shown to have caused the failure.

That's Law.


holy shiat, you're a lawyer?
 
2013-02-21 04:44:52 AM

nolanomad: holy shiat, you're a lawyer?



It's called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which has been upheld in court many times.

And since you've admitted that GM instructs you to violate federal law, perhaps now you might start to see why we say the things we do about car dealers.
 
2013-02-21 04:59:35 AM
But, Paul Krugman has assured me that forced inefficiency is good for the economy. Think of all the jobs that would be lost if you could just buy a car with no middleman.
 
2013-02-21 06:18:18 AM

DrPainMD: But, Paul Krugman has assured me that forced inefficiency is good for the economy. Think of all the jobs that would be lost if you could just buy a car with no middleman.


If krugman were alive in the late 1800's, he'd be the head lobbyist for the buggy whip makers association.
 
2013-02-21 07:04:56 AM
here's a car you'll never see on the road.  cause it's a piece of shiat that won't run

fordpartsdiscountoutlet.com
 
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