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(NPR)   Almost anything can be purchased online, except a new car from an Internet-only dealership. Turns out sleazeball dickwad car dealership owners are in bed with sleazeball dickwad politicians, thus ensuring you're screwed forever   (npr.org) divider line 324
    More: Obvious, internet, National Automobile Dealers Association, AutoNation, state sales tax  
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11555 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 2:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 07:50:42 AM
there is a urban legend the price the dealership wants for each car is hidden in the long list of numbers on the window sticker. the salesman can look at the sticker and glance at that line with 30+ letters and numbers and know what the price is. i want to believe. twice i've covered my hand over that long line when asking the price. both times the salesman got nasty. one said they needed to see what was equipped on the car and i told him to just read. "there is the list of a/c moon roof, etc... so how much is the car?". he walked into the dealership and no one else came out to assist me.
 
2013-02-20 07:57:50 AM

meanmutton: For the first one: states can regulate commerce within their borders.


If the manufacturer is not in their border, doesn't this step on the toes of the fed?
 
2013-02-20 07:58:29 AM

Great Janitor: .  In 2005 I bought a new car for $10,000.  On a five year note, after a $1,000 down payment, I would have ended up paying over $25,000....


Wow, either you're a terrible negotiator, or you have terrrible credit.  Do you realize that paying a total of $25,000 on a $9,000 loan over five years means that your annual interest rate would be 51 percent?  And you probably thought you were getting a great deal too, given all the virtual saliva you've been applying to the car dealers' balls in this thread.
 
2013-02-20 08:08:30 AM

BMFPitt: The car dealership system makes absolutely no sense to me.


Most of the laws hark back to the early days of car selling and they were intended (originally, not anymore) to prevent a manufacturer from having a monopoly over car sales nationwide.  If GM was losing market in, say, California, they could sell cars at a loss there and make up the difference by selling higher priced cars in NY, for example.  So manufacturers were prevented from directly selling to the consumer to prevent collusion over multiple markets.
 
2013-02-20 08:08:47 AM
As normal with NPR stories they miss (probably intentionally) an important part of these laws. The laws also protect consumers by requiring that manufactures drop cars off at dealers and then dealer are responsible for the final check that all the lights work, the brakes work,vital functions like wipers are operational. Basically that the car is safe  to drive. Even if the manufacture checks them as they come off the lot, theses things can be damaged in shipment. If I buy a book off the internet and its not assembled properly or damaged in shipment, my use of it can not kill myself or more importantly other people not involved in the transaction. A car delivered with brakes that are faulty can kill many people. Dealers are REQUIRED by those very same laws to make sure the new car can be safely operated on public roads.
 
2013-02-20 08:09:02 AM
Did anyone else read the headline in Ron Pearlman's voice?  Cars.... Buying cars never changes...
 
2013-02-20 08:09:31 AM

HellRaisingHoosier: fark car salespeople. It's a archaic system that needs dismantled. Thankfully, these losers have backed themselves into the "Best Buy Corner". Within a decade or so all they'll be good for is as a fancy showroom. People will test drive some selections then they will go online and buy the model, color and options on the vehicle they want.

....Or better yet, maybe Hertz or Enterprise will get into the game specifically AS a rental and vehicle showroom, then you go buy the vehicle online.


Yea, I'm sure that's just what's going to happen.

I don't know where you live, but around here the dealers are doing just fine. Every other year one or another of them is expanding.

I don't expect most of the socially awkward dweebs who post here to understand, but most people like to interact with other human beings. I see guys like you in the stores, getting in the way, (with your earbuds in, of course, lest you actually have to talk to somebody) taking pictures of products that you plan on buying later online.

When all of your "showrooms" are closed, what is your plan then? Order 2-3 different products online, play with them at home in your mother's basement for awhile, and return the ones you don't like?

I'm sure that will work out just fine.
 
2013-02-20 08:09:43 AM
About 50% of the human race is middle-men, and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.
 
2013-02-20 08:10:02 AM
Every time I try to buy a car online, I get a flood of e-mails from local car dealerships that say:  "We've got exactly the car you want.  Come in to our showroom and we'll discuss the price."

Which, translated, means: "Get away from the keyboard, and keep buying cars the way you always have, suckah."

blogs.courier-journal.com
 
2013-02-20 08:12:57 AM

meanmutton: RandomRandom: How are these state laws not a violation of the commerce clause of the Constitution?

Why have the auto manufacturers never challenged them in court? ...or have they?

For the first one: states can regulate commerce within their borders.

For the second, I'm surprised that even in Michigan, where the US auto industry in based, the cart dealers have traditionally had this much power. GM, Ford, and Chrysler must have wanted this setup, for done reason.


From what I've read around the tubes is that the dealership pain in the ass experience is due to the manufacturers being greedy.  See you are not really the manufacturer's customer, the dealership is.  What the manus used to do is push whatever inventory they had to the dealers.  That way the manus had a steady stream of buyers no matter if cars were selling or not.  Some dealer going down, slow with payments, well let some other rube start up a new dealership and he can buy the inventory rolling off the assembly line.

So dealers had to band together to avoid being steamrolled by their suppliers that forced them to buy inventory that was not selling or they did not want.

Of course the market as evolved sine way back when, but the current dealer/manufacturer setup is still a remnant of that.

I'd like to see Tesla's model take off for new cars.  Go to a few specialized company owned show rooms where you can make an appointment to test drive models you care to see.  Check everything out.  If you like, order it directly from the manufacturer.  Since dealers sometimes say they make more money on service, franchise out warranty service to businesses that want to maintain the cars but not sell them.  If that is where the real money is, instead of warehousing inventory for Chevy, then go for it.

Used car lots will still be around, but you only need to look at something like CarMax to see how that is changing.  Hit up their site and you have a huge inventory to look at. If they don't have the car local, they can get one from a nearby lot.

As for the two sales folks in here, I'm sure there are a few great sales folks.  I've never met them.  And if they are work by referal and appointment only and I'm not in that chain, how the fark can I?  I just end up stuck with the schmuck that get tasked with watching the lot.
 
2013-02-20 08:14:09 AM

JohnnyC: By law I think dealerships should have to pay you a monthly fee to put one of their farking stickers on your car if you buy it from them. You could opt out of them putting the sticker on your car, in which case they wouldn't have to pay.

I hate that I end up having to remove those farking things from any car I purchase from a dealership.


I make the dealer take it off. I tell them to remove the sticker and scrub the goo, or I'm not buying it. I've also never fully paid their 'processing fee'. They won't budge on charging me some of it, but I've knocked it in half from the last 3 cars I bought. That's a damn car payment right there.

One saleman told me they HAVE to charge the fee by federal law. I said "No, you're *allowed* to charge it by law. You are not *required*" Then he said "Well, it's already pre-printed on the sales form, so there is nothing we can do". I which point I said "Oh really? I can fix that" I took the form, crossed out the $400 and wrote $200 and declared the problem to be solved. It's really a small matter when you're dropping $25k on car, but evey little bit helps.
 
2013-02-20 08:14:23 AM

Carth: Apple sells products at the retail level but they are almost always the most expensive place to buy an apple product. It would be like if car manufacturers were allowed to sell to consumers but they only sold at MSRP.


Ok, so Apple was a bad example.  The point is that if they wanted to, OEMs could easily undercut dealers if they wanted to sell directly either online or in retail spaces.
 
2013-02-20 08:17:08 AM

No Such Agency: weave:
Amen to that.  I want to go online, order exactly what I want with options, pay for it, then a few weeks later a truck pulls up and drops off my new car.

Of course dealers will still exist to rip you off on service, so they'll still have that.


So will you still go to a B&M dealership beforehand to test drive it, and then order it for cheaper online?  Or will you buy a car without so much as sitting in it?

Maybe.  So?  The market will have to adapt, like charging for test drives, or renting out a fleet so I can pay whatever I pay Hertz for a one day rental so I can try it out, or manufacturers will set up test drive locations.

In short, not my problem.  I'm the consumer and that's how capitalism works and I have faith it will figure out a way to make a profit from it if done fairly.
 
2013-02-20 08:23:42 AM

weave: No Such Agency: weave:
Amen to that.  I want to go online, order exactly what I want with options, pay for it, then a few weeks later a truck pulls up and drops off my new car.

Of course dealers will still exist to rip you off on service, so they'll still have that.

So will you still go to a B&M dealership beforehand to test drive it, and then order it for cheaper online?  Or will you buy a car without so much as sitting in it?

Maybe.  So?  The market will have to adapt, like charging for test drives, or renting out a fleet so I can pay whatever I pay Hertz for a one day rental so I can try it out, or manufacturers will set up test drive locations.

In short, not my problem.  I'm the consumer and that's how capitalism works and I have faith it will figure out a way to make a profit from it if done fairly.


Or doing what Tesla does and having a showroom run by the manufacturer you can test drive a car. The people working there will even help you order online if you don't feel comfortable buying a car at home.
 
2013-02-20 08:24:40 AM

nolanomad: Great Janitor: PerilousApricot: Great Janitor: The reason why is for the car salesman.  If the lot wasn't forced to be closed at least one day a week, then most of the salesmen would be working open to close seven days a week.

That's why all the restaurants, clothes stores and shops near my house close one day a week.

The difference is that salesmen work on pure commission.  Restaurant/Retail employees are hourly.  In a pure commission environment everyone works 6 or 7 days a week.  If you're having a bad week, you work that seventh day in hopes of having a paycheck.  If you're having a good week, you tend to keep it going buy working that seventh day.  Having a law that says that certain industries, like car sales, must be closed one day a week means that no one is going to force themselves to work seven days, and the boss isn't going to expect anyone to work seven days a week.  Something else that happens in pure commission environments.

I've been in some places were the work week was just four days last sales appointment was at 7pm.  I've been to others were it was officially six days, but in reality it was seven days with the work day starting at 8am and being told that if you're home by 9pm you probably didn't make any money.

When everyone is paid hourly or salaried, the work week gets limited to 40 hours in most cases to avoid over time or comp time.  So the business can run seven days a week and the staff can have two days a week or more off (used to work retail.  One week put in almost 60 hours, next week lucking to put in 10 hours).

Okay, gonna get a lot of grief for this, but I made it to the bottom of the thread... guys? I *work* at a car dealership. Buick and GMC. Internet Manager. And man oh man, there is a TON of butthurt in this thread. Please allows me to teach...

1) yep, salesmen lie. you know who lies more? customers. Can't tell you how many times I had a customer (back when I was selling) say "Well we were just looking" and when I called to ...


Ironic that you start your post amused about the butthurt in the thread, and then you increase the butthurt in this thread by a magnitude of 10.

Car salesmen are among the Big 3 for sleazeballs, behind politicians and pedophiles, and everyone knows it.  Deal with it.
 
2013-02-20 08:24:59 AM

Babwa Wawa: Yogimus: Babwa Wawa: Yogimus: Buy car overseas.

Are you familiar with the current exchange rates?  Are you familiar with how difficult it would be to source parts for a european-spec car in the US?  Do you have any idea of the shipping costs associated with it?  Do you have any idea how to ensure that a foreign-procured vehicle can be certified in the US for emissions so it can be registered?

Yes I do.  Are you aware of:
http://www.saab-militarysales.com/militaryprogram/main.html
http://www.autoexchangeonline.com/

They don't actually care if you are in the military.

Yeah, no.  Audi A4 quattro premium.  $34K on autoexchange.  $37K MSRP.  Not a great deal.


What I find more impressive is that they are still selling new Saabs, and at 2008 pricing as well.  Hell of a deal.
 
2013-02-20 08:26:42 AM
I do stage hypnosis shows as a hobby. I'm always amused when I go to dealerships and inevitably someone there will attempt to use conversational hypnosis techniques, or their poor man's equivalent NLP, to try and put me into a suggestible state.

I was taking a test drive at one dealership (2012 Dodge Challenger, baybeeee) and the sales guy sitting in the passenger seat kept doing this weird touching thing on the back of my right hand while I had it on the steering wheel. Then it hit me: he's trying this stupid "tapping" fad to reinforce his point. I calmly told him to stop touching me.
 
2013-02-20 08:31:19 AM
I plan on buying a new car this spring. I want the 2013 model for the new features and I feel like treating myself to a brand new car, as I think everyone should have a spankin' new car at least once in their lives. My last 4 vehicles (2 cars and 2 motorcycles) were used.

So, my experienced farkers, any tips? I have good, but not amazing credit. I know the model and options that I want. I was thinking of emailing several local dealers basically saying, "Here's what I want, nothing more and nothing less. You're not the only dealer that I'm contacting. What's your best offer?"
 
2013-02-20 08:33:12 AM

Yogimus: Babwa Wawa: Yogimus: Buy car overseas.

Are you familiar with the current exchange rates?  Are you familiar with how difficult it would be to source parts for a european-spec car in the US?  Do you have any idea of the shipping costs associated with it?  Do you have any idea how to ensure that a foreign-procured vehicle can be certified in the US for emissions so it can be registered?

Yes I do.  Are you aware of:
http://www.saab-militarysales.com/militaryprogram/main.html
http://www.autoexchangeonline.com/

They don't actually care if you are in the military.


There USED to be something similar yearsandyearsandyears ago, though not sure if it still exists:  Most overseas bases (for instance, Kunsan AB in South Korea, where I was at) had a little office at the BX where, if you were within 30 days or so of going home, you went in and could order a car from ANY of the old Big 3, and it would be waiting for you at the airport in the States.   IIRC, no prep charges, no transport charges, and a fair discount off the MSRP.
 
2013-02-20 08:37:57 AM
I vote for the 'No, I will not buy a car based on a pic and description typed up by a salesman'.

Even if buying new; the only vehicle I bought new was my Venture still had the shipping tape on it when I saw it and only 10 miles.  I still test drove it.

A lot of times brand new cars on the lot has more miles because they get used for all sorts of running around by the sales force.  Have you watched how a salesman drives?  They don't believe in treating a car right.

I just bought a used Expedition and chose that over a Trailblazer.  Trailblazer looked better, less miles and asked $2000 more.  The Expedition drove much better and what was not mentioned in the description, the Trailblazer was in an accident and had five different owners.  Seems fishy why a vehicle around 100,000 miles would go through five owners.
 
2013-02-20 08:38:50 AM

CtrlAltDestroy: I plan on buying a new car this spring. I want the 2013 model for the new features and I feel like treating myself to a brand new car, as I think everyone should have a spankin' new car at least once in their lives. My last 4 vehicles (2 cars and 2 motorcycles) were used.

So, my experienced farkers, any tips? I have good, but not amazing credit. I know the model and options that I want. I was thinking of emailing several local dealers basically saying, "Here's what I want, nothing more and nothing less. You're not the only dealer that I'm contacting. What's your best offer?"


Find the exact car you want, model, features, color and email all deals that sell that brand within 50-100 miles saying "I want this car, what is the lowest out the door price you can give me"

Then arrange financing through a credit union at the lowest interest rate you can get. Then when you get to the dealership ask" can you beat ____ interest rate? If not or they if they try to add any fees just use the check from the credit union.
 
2013-02-20 08:41:36 AM

Carth: CtrlAltDestroy: I plan on buying a new car this spring. I want the 2013 model for the new features and I feel like treating myself to a brand new car, as I think everyone should have a spankin' new car at least once in their lives. My last 4 vehicles (2 cars and 2 motorcycles) were used.

So, my experienced farkers, any tips? I have good, but not amazing credit. I know the model and options that I want. I was thinking of emailing several local dealers basically saying, "Here's what I want, nothing more and nothing less. You're not the only dealer that I'm contacting. What's your best offer?"

Find the exact car you want, model, features, color and email all deals that sell that brand within 50-100 miles saying "I want this car, what is the lowest out the door price you can give me"

Then arrange financing through a credit union at the lowest interest rate you can get. Then when you get to the dealership ask" can you beat ____ interest rate? If not or they if they try to add any fees just use the check from the credit union.


It goes without saying but don't use your real email account since you'll get spam from the dealers for years. If you have a lot of time you can take the lowest quote you receive and respond to the other dealers asking them to beat it.
 
2013-02-20 08:41:58 AM

jpadc: As normal with NPR stories they miss (probably intentionally) an important part of these laws. The laws also protect consumers by requiring that manufactures drop cars off at dealers and then dealer are responsible for the final check that all the lights work, the brakes work,vital functions like wipers are operational. Basically that the car is safe  to drive. Even if the manufacture checks them as they come off the lot, theses things can be damaged in shipment. If I buy a book off the internet and its not assembled properly or damaged in shipment, my use of it can not kill myself or more importantly other people not involved in the transaction. A car delivered with brakes that are faulty can kill many people. Dealers are REQUIRED by those very same laws to make sure the new car can be safely operated on public roads.


There is no reason they couldn't require the manufacturer to check those prior to release/after shipment.
 
2013-02-20 08:50:30 AM
Motorbikes, too. Sucks rocks, I say.
 
2013-02-20 08:50:30 AM

Prototype909: Great Janitor: .  In 2005 I bought a new car for $10,000.  On a five year note, after a $1,000 down payment, I would have ended up paying over $25,000....

Wow, either you're a terrible negotiator, or you have terrrible credit.  Do you realize that paying a total of $25,000 on a $9,000 loan over five years means that your annual interest rate would be 51 percent?  And you probably thought you were getting a great deal too, given all the virtual saliva you've been applying to the car dealers' balls in this thread.


Actually, no.  The car was $14,000 after the extended warranty.  I wanted the gap insurance that only came with the second level of the warranty (when cars are financed, for the first two or three years the loan is more than the worth of the car.  If your car gets totaled during that time insurance only covers the value of the car, not the loan so you're screwed.  Gap insurance protects you by paying off the balance of the loan in the event of a car wreck, and after seeing my dad, less than a year prior, get rear ended by a drunk driver on the freeway and have the auto insurance of the guy who rear ended him say that legally they only have to cover the value of the car, my dad who should have gotten a lawyer, ended up rolling the unpaid balance of his car into the loan of another car, I decided that it was something good to have because shiat happens).  So, $14,000 plus tax, title and license at a finance rate of 19% came to $25,000.  And yes, my credit sucks and my negotiation skills eight years ago sucked.  Pay for a car in cash and you don't need the gap insurance because you won't be underwater.  What I should have done back in 2005 was tell my mother who suggested I get a new car when I was a temp making only $10/hour no, and gone to craigslist and bought a car in cash and be done with it.
 
2013-02-20 08:50:53 AM

harlock: I hate...hate HATE car dealers and I want nothing to do with them.      I can barely stand to go to one for a test drive.


My way to deal with them: treat them like machines.

Walk in, see a car, look up the book price. Tell them that you will offer them the book price. They can take it or leave it. If they say anything else, hand them a business card with your offer on the back, tell them to call you if they're willing to accept the price and nothing else. If they call and try anything else, put the phone down.

Sales people hate this shiat. They want to tell you that you'll get more pussy with this car, or that you're robbing them at that price, or that they've got to put food on the table, or anything else. At this point... tell them what your offer is, hand them a card and walk.

I had a sales guy tell me that "this was a £20K car, and you're getting it for £8K, it's a bargain, and I was being cheeky offering £7K". I told him that I was withdrawing my offer, he was not to call me for a fortnight and that he could go and find another customer. If he couldn't he could call, apologise for his rudeness, and offer it to me for £7K. In the meantime, i would try and find one elsewhere for £7K.

The absolute golden rule: never need a car. If you really need a car, buy a £1K banger. When you're spending £20K on a car, always be in a position to turn it down.
 
2013-02-20 08:53:00 AM

CtrlAltDestroy: I plan on buying a new car this spring. I want the 2013 model for the new features and I feel like treating myself to a brand new car, as I think everyone should have a spankin' new car at least once in their lives. My last 4 vehicles (2 cars and 2 motorcycles) were used.

So, my experienced farkers, any tips? I have good, but not amazing credit. I know the model and options that I want. I was thinking of emailing several local dealers basically saying, "Here's what I want, nothing more and nothing less. You're not the only dealer that I'm contacting. What's your best offer?"


http://www.edmunds.com/

It is your friend. Get to know it.
 
2013-02-20 08:58:17 AM
"There is no reason they couldn't require the manufacturer to check those prior to release/after shipment."

So, you still have to go somewhere to get your car where they would have manufacturer certified techs to make the required repairs, send required parts to and the like. Warranty repairs, recalls etc, you still need some place to do all that. If dealers close, then the cost of maintaining those facilities increase and so do car prices.  You already can buy your car through Costco (and other places) and go to a dealer to pick it up. So what you wantalready exists.
 
2013-02-20 09:00:42 AM

jpadc: "There is no reason they couldn't require the manufacturer to check those prior to release/after shipment."

So, you still have to go somewhere to get your car where they would have manufacturer certified techs to make the required repairs, send required parts to and the like. Warranty repairs, recalls etc, you still need some place to do all that. If dealers close, then the cost of maintaining those facilities increase and so do car prices.  You already can buy your car through Costco (and other places) and go to a dealer to pick it up. So what you wantalready exists.


Bull shiat.

Most garages can do that.
 
2013-02-20 09:02:53 AM

jpadc: "There is no reason they couldn't require the manufacturer to check those prior to release/after shipment."

So, you still have to go somewhere to get your car where they would have manufacturer certified techs to make the required repairs, send required parts to and the like. Warranty repairs, recalls etc, you still need some place to do all that. If dealers close, then the cost of maintaining those facilities increase and so do car prices.  You already can buy your car through Costco (and other places) and go to a dealer to pick it up. So what you wantalready exists.


Meh, this can be solved.  Many other goods manufacturers have either contracted shops or their own shops in large areas to do warranty service repair.  I don't see why this can be truly any different.  As well cars are generally magnitudes more reliable than they used to be.  Sure there are some calls for service but they are not as great as they used to be.  Maintenance intervals are further apart as well.  Since the maintenance area is usually a strong profit center for a dealership, I'd expect to see folks more than willing to do this and to not provide huge lots for the manufacturer to park its inventory.
 
2013-02-20 09:07:45 AM

PunGent: Um, it's not just tolerated, but lobbied for, in MOST industries.  Just not as blatantly, usually.

Try opening your own bank or insurance company, for instance.


That's true - but those are typically heavily regulated industries anyway.  Not that it's any more right, but if you think about industries that produce consumables where the retailers have the manufacturers by the balls, there aren't that many.

The sleaziness of the sales model has an inverse correlation with the frequency with which people buy the products.  Appliances used to be a fairly sleazy biz, now it's very reasonable precisely because of pressure from the Internet.  Mattress purchases, OTOH....
 
hej
2013-02-20 09:13:22 AM
MaudlinMutantMollusk:
//call me cynical, if you will

You're cynical.
/And I agree with you entirely.
 
hej
2013-02-20 09:14:35 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Amazon killed Borders. Now people without the Internet can't buy books.

So, yeah, it sounds great and it's really convenient to buy stuff online and have it delivered. But once you leave your little technologically enhanced sphere, there are plenty of disadvantaged people out there that rely on bricks and mortar stores to supply their needs. If you kill off the local dealership, you're taking that choice away from them and hurting us all.


How are the people who don't rely on brick and mortar stores being hurt by the BnM's going away?
 
2013-02-20 09:15:22 AM

Basily Gourt: I don't expect most of the socially awkward dweebs who post here to understand, but most people like to interact with other human beings.



There's a subtle difference between "human interaction" and "pushy salesperson who refuses to show you the car you want to buy, adds arbitrary numbers to the final quote driving the price up by $2-3k over an earlier quote, and stands in front of your car door when you try to leave to go to another dealer".

If you want to get scammed every time you go to a dealer, be my guest, but some of us just want to buy the car we actually want without going through a 3+ hour song and dance before we even find out if the dealer has that model on the lot.
 
hej
2013-02-20 09:15:39 AM

JohnnyC: By law I think dealerships should have to pay you a monthly fee to put one of their farking stickers on your car if you buy it from them. You could opt out of them putting the sticker on your car, in which case they wouldn't have to pay.

I hate that I end up having to remove those farking things from any car I purchase from a dealership.


You already can "opt out".  Tell them to take it off/not to put it on before you take delivery of the car.
 
2013-02-20 09:18:42 AM
If you want to go through the hassle, just call the closest 5-10 dealers and make them aware that they will be competing for your money. Take bids and make the salespeople of each dealership aware of the lowest bid price. Continue taking bids until all but 1 dealer have dropped out of the race, and then go pick up your new car which you will be getting for a fraction of what most people pay for it.
 
2013-02-20 09:20:00 AM

nolanomad: I get the feeling you're kind of a dick. Also, you know nothing about buying cars. Just saying. I know people who can recite the last 5 times a customer bought a car from them, what they bought, why they bought, what color, etc. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you're a moron who has no clue what he's talking about


Oh, I'm sure those people exist. But anyone who claims that this type of salesperson is anything near the norm is either uneducated or being deliberately misleading.

nolanomad: I *work* at a car dealership. Buick and GMC. Internet Manager.


I see you're the latter. "Internet Manager" indeed.
 
2013-02-20 09:20:11 AM

CtrlAltDestroy: I plan on buying a new car this spring. I want the 2013 model for the new features and I feel like treating myself to a brand new car, as I think everyone should have a spankin' new car at least once in their lives. My last 4 vehicles (2 cars and 2 motorcycles) were used.

So, my experienced farkers, any tips? I have good, but not amazing credit. I know the model and options that I want. I was thinking of emailing several local dealers basically saying, "Here's what I want, nothing more and nothing less. You're not the only dealer that I'm contacting. What's your best offer?"


Have a bunch of car models and brands you want to try.  Go to the dealers and ask to test drive the car.  Be up front with them you are not purchasing that day so price discussion is moot because you're still trying to figure out which car you want.  Get a card from them and promise them your business when you do decide to purchase.

Then grill them on the car, make them answer details about the vehicle that you've been researching online, you'll quickly learn which dealerships have people that care about the vehicles and which dealerships are there to rip you off and never see you again.

When you do decide to purchase, figure out the Invoice price for the vehicle, anyone that pays MSRP is a farking idiot(Although you could probably say the same for invoice, getting below it is much more difficult)    So yeah, walk in, tell them the car you want, test drive it again, sit down, and give them the Invoice price, if they argue with it at all, remind them that a one-way airline ticket is only a couple hundred dollars and you can find a dealership willing to honor that invoice price.

TL:DR Never pay MSRP, Never pay more than Invoice.
 
2013-02-20 09:25:45 AM

Great Janitor: Prototype909: Great Janitor: .   In 2005 I bought a new car for $10,000.  ...

... The car was $14,000 after the extended warranty.  ...

...  So, $14,000 plus tax, title and license at a finance rate of 19% ...


I wonder where car salesmen get that reputation they have... you know, the one where they keep moving the goalposts to lure someone in low, then raise the price as much as they can before the customer reaches the door...
 
2013-02-20 09:25:54 AM
Basily Gourt:
I don't know where you live, but around here the dealers are doing just fine. Every other year one or another of them is expanding.

I don't expect most of the socially awkward dweebs who post here to understand, but most people like to interact with other human beings. I see guys like you in the stores, getting in the way, (with your earbuds in, of course, lest you actually have to talk to somebody) taking pictures of products that you plan on buying later online.

When all of your "showrooms" are closed, what is your plan then? Order 2-3 different products online, play with them at home in your mother's basement for awhile, and return the ones you don't like?

I'm sure that will work out just fine.



My favorite part of your rant is that you have this preconceived notion of who I am, and you then use that to try and insinuate that car buying is a fun process. Vehicles are simply transportation. That's all they are. They are a drain on your budget and greatly increase your risk of death. A  train and some sneaker would make them obsolete for a lot of people.

Face it man, the world is a changing place and the time of personal vehicle dealerships are dieing the United States. I don't think the number of dealerships has ever gone anywhere but down since the 40's. Don't take it as a personal insult (which is seems you have), it's simply life. Look at all the other industries it has happened in.
 
2013-02-20 09:26:38 AM
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
JERRY: All right, all right. All right, that's enough! Let's get back to my deal. That undercoating, that's a rip-off, isn't it, David?
PUDDY: Oh, we don't even know what it is.
JERRY: So, I'm gettin' the insider's deal?
PUDDY: Insider's deal. (Holds up his hand) High-five.
 
2013-02-20 09:29:07 AM
Been using the same dealer for service for nearly 30 years now...they're not the cheapest, but they do solid work, and have ripped me off for exactly $70 in all that time...new battery I didn't need, not the end of the world.

Buying a car from them?  I'd still be VERY careful, do all my homework first, etc.

/more of a used car guy anyway
//driving around here is a contact sport
 
2013-02-20 09:32:01 AM

CtrlAltDestroy: I plan on buying a new car this spring. I want the 2013 model for the new features and I feel like treating myself to a brand new car, as I think everyone should have a spankin' new car at least once in their lives. My last 4 vehicles (2 cars and 2 motorcycles) were used.

So, my experienced farkers, any tips? I have good, but not amazing credit. I know the model and options that I want. I was thinking of emailing several local dealers basically saying, "Here's what I want, nothing more and nothing less. You're not the only dealer that I'm contacting. What's your best offer?"


Personally, I go with a straight-forward approach.  This is what I want, this is what I will pay for it, take it or leave it.  Don't budge from that point.  If your price is reasonable, the dealer will come around.  If your price is low, they won't sell it to you.  The thing to remember is that it's strictly business, not an emotional game, and the dealer can walk away from your offer just as easily as you can from thiers.

/I've only been involved in the purchase of two vehicles this way - my wife's car and my motorcycle.  Worked well enough for me, YMMV.
 
2013-02-20 09:41:04 AM

HellRaisingHoosier: Basily Gourt:
I don't know where you live, but around here the dealers are doing just fine. Every other year one or another of them is expanding.

I don't expect most of the socially awkward dweebs who post here to understand, but most people like to interact with other human beings. I see guys like you in the stores, getting in the way, (with your earbuds in, of course, lest you actually have to talk to somebody) taking pictures of products that you plan on buying later online.

When all of your "showrooms" are closed, what is your plan then? Order 2-3 different products online, play with them at home in your mother's basement for awhile, and return the ones you don't like?

I'm sure that will work out just fine.


My favorite part of your rant is that you have this preconceived notion of who I am, and you then use that to try and insinuate that car buying is a fun process. Vehicles are simply transportation. That's all they are. They are a drain on your budget and greatly increase your risk of death. A  train and some sneaker would make them obsolete for a lot of people.

Face it man, the world is a changing place and the time of personal vehicle dealerships are dieing the United States. I don't think the number of dealerships has ever gone anywhere but down since the 40's. Don't take it as a personal insult (which is seems you have), it's simply life. Look at all the other industries it has happened in.


I do love a good rant now and again. You can't take that away from me.

Personal? Krist, this is the internet. You are nothing to me but words on a screen, as I should be to you.

I don't think it's possible to take any of this personally.
 
2013-02-20 09:47:04 AM

heypete: My wife bought a car a few years ago. She did all the research on various car sides (e.g. edmunds.com), reviewed the online inventory for multiple dealers in town, found the exact model and trim package that she wanted, and did all the negotiations by phone (less pressure that way). The dealers all competed with each other for her business, would offer to beat other dealer prices, etc. She kept meticulous notes of each conversation and when certain details were to be discussed (for example, the price) would record the call and got the dealer consent to do so -- that way there'd be no misconceptions or "he said, she said" accusations.

Finally, after she got the best offer from one dealer she physically went into the shop to finalize the sale. Even then, they tried pulling a lot of bogus stuff, tried to sell her useless add-ons, services, doing shady financial stuff, etc. On several occasions they tried saying certain things were required (and she knew they weren't) and so she got up to walk. They ended up changing their minds and suddenly "required" things became "optional".

She ended up buying the car that she wanted at the priced that had been previously agreed upon with no extras. They even removed the dealer sticker and license plate frame as a condition of the sale.

Moral of the story: do your research online and contact dealers by phone ahead of time (preferably by Google Voice so you can block their annoying follow-up calls that they make for weeks afterwards even after requesting that they don't call you). Be prepared to walk if they try pulling anything shady. There's no need to be an ass to car dealers, as they're just doing their job, but don't get suckered.

/dislikes having to interact with salesmen and high-pressure sales tactics


I tried to do similar to that.  Unfortunately, when I tried to walk that dealer already knew the options I wanted.  The two available vehicles with those options were then on 'hold' for shipment to his dealership when I tried to contact the dealer with the second best promise.  I ended up with the choice of trying to argue through his price increases or changing to a far lesser option set or another vehicle.

I'm still not entirely certain how to avoid that particular trap.  They really didn't care if I hated them or if they blatantly lied multiple times.  It's not like it's a purchase you repeat every month, so why should they care?  They have the highest sales in the state due to traps and lies, and while I've since heard the same story from other sources, it just isn't something most people tend to recommend for or against regularly and remember for that long.  I do go to a different dealer for warranty work, because it is evident the first never wants to see their sales customers again, and have actually run into quite a few at the new dealership with cars from the first who would never ever go to them for service - but it's too late for it to matter on the sale.
 
2013-02-20 09:50:09 AM

nolanomad: guys? I *work* at a car dealership. Buick and GMC. Internet Manager


If going to the dealership was a lovely buying experience, no one would be biatching.  Buying a car sucks.  Sunday?  nope, blue laws.  New car on the internet?  nope, laws.  Sure, I'll rush a trip on a weekday night after I get my kid from daycare, or get a baby sitter on a Saturday so I can go waste the day getting fed bullshiat from a car salesman.  We avoid you in the showroom because we want to sit in all the seats and check the car out without your interference or sales pitch.  Oh, now we want to buy, well gee you don't have the car here, but you have this one with $3000 more in options that you'll sell you for $2500 more, what a deal.  Fees too.  Extended warranty that covers nothing.  Wheel insurance.  {under|clear}{coat|body} spray.  Mats.  Oh, and run a credit check even though I don't want to finance.

In short, you're a middle man who doesn't take kindly to being eliminated.  But you're still here, because laws, and old people.
 
2013-02-20 09:56:32 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: It's not news


It's Fark.com!
 
2013-02-20 10:00:23 AM
Most of the time, car dealers actually make up a substantial proportion of state legislatures and have for decades. It's not so much a conspiracy as it is legislators outright writing legislation that will benefit their family and friends. The general public? Meh, fark 'em.
 
2013-02-20 10:03:50 AM

ErinPac: heypete: My wife bought a car a few years ago. She did all the research on various car sides (e.g. edmunds.com), reviewed the online inventory for multiple dealers in town, found the exact model and trim package that she wanted, and did all the negotiations by phone (less pressure that way). The dealers all competed with each other for her business, would offer to beat other dealer prices, etc. She kept meticulous notes of each conversation and when certain details were to be discussed (for example, the price) would record the call and got the dealer consent to do so -- that way there'd be no misconceptions or "he said, she said" accusations.

Finally, after she got the best offer from one dealer she physically went into the shop to finalize the sale. Even then, they tried pulling a lot of bogus stuff, tried to sell her useless add-ons, services, doing shady financial stuff, etc. On several occasions they tried saying certain things were required (and she knew they weren't) and so she got up to walk. They ended up changing their minds and suddenly "required" things became "optional".

She ended up buying the car that she wanted at the priced that had been previously agreed upon with no extras. They even removed the dealer sticker and license plate frame as a condition of the sale.

Moral of the story: do your research online and contact dealers by phone ahead of time (preferably by Google Voice so you can block their annoying follow-up calls that they make for weeks afterwards even after requesting that they don't call you). Be prepared to walk if they try pulling anything shady. There's no need to be an ass to car dealers, as they're just doing their job, but don't get suckered.

/dislikes having to interact with salesmen and high-pressure sales tactics

I tried to do similar to that.  Unfortunately, when I tried to walk that dealer already knew the options I wanted.  The two available vehicles with those options were then on 'hold' for shipment to his dealership w ...


I've never actually bought a car that was on the lot.  The two times I've purchased a car, I told the dealer what I wanted, to find it, and have it shipped there, and I'll pay invoice.    Both times they've agreed.
 
2013-02-20 10:10:03 AM

gingerjet: I should be able to drive my ass to any state, buy a car, and drive it back.


Why can't you?
 
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