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(NPR)   Almost anything can be purchased online, except a new car from an Internet-only dealership. Turns out sleazeball dickwad car dealership owners are in bed with sleazeball dickwad politicians, thus ensuring you're screwed forever   (npr.org) divider line 324
    More: Obvious, internet, National Automobile Dealers Association, AutoNation, state sales tax  
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11604 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2013 at 2:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-20 12:08:34 AM
Amen to that.  I want to go online, order exactly what I want with options, pay for it, then a few weeks later a truck pulls up and drops off my new car.

Of course dealers will still exist to rip you off on service, so they'll still have that.
 
2013-02-20 12:21:48 AM
Journalism, it used to exist.

Not so much now . . . . . . .

///slashies
 
2013-02-20 12:37:24 AM
At least I can still buy my buggy whips online.

http://www.buggy-whips.com/store/
 
2013-02-20 12:53:56 AM
It's not news
 
2013-02-20 01:54:39 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: It's not news


Anything that drives public awareness of this mockery of the free market is a good thing.
 
2013-02-20 01:59:53 AM

Babwa Wawa: MaudlinMutantMollusk: It's not news

Anything that drives public awareness of this mockery of the free market is a good thing.


Ok, then

/more people will be aware that nothing is going to change
//call me cynical, if you will
 
2013-02-20 02:05:37 AM
I bought my last car from a guy with one eye. Sadly, he was not a pirate.
 
2013-02-20 02:06:07 AM
I'd still need a real test drive. Same reason you don't buy sex toys online.
 
2013-02-20 02:08:44 AM
So, you're saying a pack of elderly lawmakers and obscure laws are making your life miserable?

/ welcome to the modern era; where things can't ever, ever, EVER; be simple.
 
2013-02-20 02:10:10 AM
I can understand the idiotic laws around liquor sales because of the repeal of the 21st amendment   But car sales?  No.  I should be able to drive my ass to any state, buy a car, and drive it back.  But thanks to idiotic state laws, collusion, and outright threats - that isn't possible.

/also want to be able to buy a car on a fark'n sunday
 
2013-02-20 02:10:27 AM

iheartscotch: So, you're saying a pack of elderly lawmakers and obscure laws are making your life miserable?

/ welcome to the modern era; where things can't ever, ever, EVER; be simple.


Especially not if there's money involved

/and there's always money involved
 
2013-02-20 02:10:49 AM
Amazon killed Borders. Now people without the Internet can't buy books.

So, yeah, it sounds great and it's really convenient to buy stuff online and have it delivered. But once you leave your little technologically enhanced sphere, there are plenty of disadvantaged people out there that rely on bricks and mortar stores to supply their needs. If you kill off the local dealership, you're taking that choice away from them and hurting us all.
 
2013-02-20 02:13:07 AM
I bought my last new car through Cars Direct in 2003 and it was the easiest experience I ever had.   The way it works out is you order it from there and pick it up at a participating dealership.   It's a done deal and they are not allowed to mess with you.   I walked in, signed papers and drove out.    At the time the going price for most cars on there was $500 over invoice minus any factory incentives etc available, which for my car were very substantial (always buy at the end of Dec for good deals...) and I got a really great deal.

I hate...hate HATE car dealers and I want nothing to do with them.      I can barely stand to go to one for a test drive.

I bought a truck a few years ago used from a private party and it was a much better experience, how it ought to be.   I guess I chose well because both that car and the truck have given me nothing but great service.   

I had previously purchased a car in 1998 through a dealer the traditional way and got taken to the cleaners...fairly young and naive, did not make that mistake twice.

Car shows are a good place to do everything but take a test drive. You can usually narrow it down to one or two models just by sitting in them and going through them inside and out.  Do that first, go take a test drive then back online to order the car.
 
2013-02-20 02:14:15 AM

weave: Amen to that.  I want to go online, order exactly what I want with options, pay for it, then a few weeks later a truck pulls up and drops off my new car.

Of course dealers will still exist to rip you off on service, so they'll still have that.


my dealership was sleazy as hell during the sale, but their service is cheap and unpushy.  I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.
 
2013-02-20 02:14:50 AM
By law I think dealerships should have to pay you a monthly fee to put one of their farking stickers on your car if you buy it from them. You could opt out of them putting the sticker on your car, in which case they wouldn't have to pay.

I hate that I end up having to remove those farking things from any car I purchase from a dealership.
 
2013-02-20 02:15:33 AM

JohnnyC: By law I think dealerships should have to pay you a monthly fee to put one of their farking stickers on your car if you buy it from them. You could opt out of them putting the sticker on your car, in which case they wouldn't have to pay.

I hate that I end up having to remove those farking things from any car I purchase from a dealership.


That and the license plate frame.
 
2013-02-20 02:15:47 AM
How are these state laws not a violation of the commerce clause of the Constitution?

Why have the auto manufacturers never challenged them in court? ...or have they?
 
2013-02-20 02:17:18 AM
Also, I noticed as of late some banks and credit unions are offering no hassle car negotiation services, that come with a loan through said institution.  The loan for my truck is 2.99% through a credit union, pretty damn awesome.  They are one of the ones offering that service.
 
2013-02-20 02:17:44 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Amazon killed Borders. Now people without the Internet can't buy books.

So, yeah, it sounds great and it's really convenient to buy stuff online and have it delivered. But once you leave your little technologically enhanced sphere, there are plenty of disadvantaged people out there that rely on bricks and mortar stores to supply their needs. If you kill off the local dealership, you're taking that choice away from them and hurting us all.


This reminds me, I need to open an Internet store that sells bricks and mortar.
 
2013-02-20 02:17:57 AM

Trocadero: I'd still need a real test drive. Same reason you don't buy sex toys online.


Where do you shop that they let you test drive your sex toys?
 
2013-02-20 02:18:19 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Amazon killed Borders. Now people without the Internet can't buy books.

So, yeah, it sounds great and it's really convenient to buy stuff online and have it delivered. But once you leave your little technologically enhanced sphere, there are plenty of disadvantaged people out there that rely on bricks and mortar stores to supply their needs. If you kill off the local dealership, you're taking that choice away from them and hurting us all.


This isn't just about online competition.  This is about ANY competition at all.  The rules designed to raise the cost of market entry for car dealers wouldn't be tolerated in many other industries.
 
2013-02-20 02:21:22 AM
If you buy a new car from the floor salesmen at the dealership, you're DOING IT WRONG and will pay a sucker premium.
 
2013-02-20 02:21:26 AM

RandomRandom: How are these state laws not a violation of the commerce clause of the Constitution?


[morbo.jpg]

The Commerce Clause does not work that way!
 
2013-02-20 02:21:41 AM

gingerjet: I can understand the idiotic laws around liquor sales because of the repeal of the 21st amendment   But car sales?  No.  I should be able to drive my ass to any state, buy a car, and drive it back.  But thanks to idiotic state laws, collusion, and outright threats - that isn't possible.

/also want to be able to buy a car on a fark'n sunday


It is very possible. i have sober this, and was never even threatened
 
2013-02-20 02:23:24 AM
So dealerships have legislated their way into no going the way of Bestbuy.  Essentially a showroom for an online store.

There is one problem with this though.  You NEED a test drive to decide if you really want to live with a car.  I don't NEED to test drive a laptop.  Reviews are good enough.  For a car no one is going say in a review how the seats fit my ass or if the steering wheel doesn't adjust quite enough to see all the gauges clearly.

But there is a second problem with this.  The dealer invariably never has a car with all the options you want. They may have one with more options that you don't want to pay for or one with less options where you would be sacrificing something you wanted.  So you just end up ordering the car you want anyway.  Unless a dealer doesn't order cars, in which case you leave because they really didn't want to sell you a car any way.

I have never bought a car off of a lot.  Every time I've had to order.  I have also decided I really wanted a car only to test it and then decide I hated it.  Or really wanted to test it and there wasn't one available to test anywhere nearby.

Repubs scream about needless govt regulation.  This is actually an example of it.  Let people buy a car anyway they want.
 
2013-02-20 02:23:56 AM
In 1998, I was training to be a car salesman and someone asked about the possibility of selling cars online.  My trainer answered it with "No, not really a good idea."  and then he mentioned that you can't test drive a car online.  Last time I went car shopping, there were a few cars that I looked at, thought they were decent, then I sat inside the car and thought "Oh fark no." When you look at a car online, you see what the dealer wants you to see.  When you see a car in person, you see everything.

Here it is, 2013 and it's still the same.  If you're going to go tens of thousands of dollars into debt on a purchase, it's best to actually look at the car in person, test drive it, learn how all the different features work, etc...  Hell, buying current car and my wife's current car, had it been online only we probably would have purchased lemons.  The test drive allowed us to filter out the cars in piss poor condition, ones that had obvious problems (I'm 6'1", one car we got into, the seat adjuster was broken and the last person to adjust that seat apparently was 5'3". There was no way I could drive that car in that condition).  Now this was a used car dealership, which means you really want to test drive the car before purchasing.  And the salesman hated me.  I turned down test driving one car because the keyless entry remote didn't work.  (He said "It's probably just the batteries."  I said "Fix it and I'll take another look, if not I'll look at a car with all the features working."). But the same is true for new cars as well.  I enjoy watching Top Gear, and there have been a few times when they've test driven a car and mentioned just how cheap looking/feeling the car's interior felt.  There was one episode where Jeremy Clarkson was driving a Corvette and the upper part of the seat belt broke.  Hell, last summer I was working as a car salesman and drove every new car model on the lot and there were a few that I just didn't care for.
 
2013-02-20 02:29:12 AM

JohnnyC: I hate that I end up having to remove those farking things from any car I purchase from a dealership.


All you have to do is ask your salesperson that it be removed or not put on in the first place.
 
2013-02-20 02:31:04 AM

Corn_Fed: If you buy a new car from the floor salesmen at the dealership, you're DOING IT WRONG and will pay a sucker premium.


Care to elaborate?
 
2013-02-20 02:31:16 AM
That's why you should buy directly from private owners (read: overeager idiots) who have already taken it up the ass from these kind of practices. There are plenty of resources available to see if the car is a lemon or has been abused. Take a friend who knows about cars with you to look at it for some measure of additional peace of mind. Bypass the system and go past the obscenely inflated dealer price, past the somewhat inflated blue book price down to the actual value a car has for what it is.
 
2013-02-20 02:31:43 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Amazon killed Borders. Now people without the Internet can't buy books.

So, yeah, it sounds great and it's really convenient to buy stuff online and have it delivered. But once you leave your little technologically enhanced sphere, there are plenty of disadvantaged people out there that rely on bricks and mortar stores to supply their needs. If you kill off the local dealership, you're taking that choice away from them and hurting us all.


So? the internet was invented 40 years ago. And you can go to a library and use the computers for free.  Why do i care if someone who cant afford to walk into a free public building and use the free internet wants to buy a book or a car or whatever?
 
2013-02-20 02:35:10 AM
eleventy thumbs up for / from me for hoty. well done.
 
2013-02-20 02:37:56 AM
Buy car overseas.
 
2013-02-20 02:39:50 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Amazon killed Borders. Now people without the Internet can't buy books.

So, yeah, it sounds great and it's really convenient to buy stuff online and have it delivered. But once you leave your little technologically enhanced sphere, there are plenty of disadvantaged people out there that rely on bricks and mortar stores to supply their needs. If you kill off the local dealership, you're taking that choice away from them and hurting us all.


There are five book stores within walking distance of my apartment, and that's not counting academic sellers.  One of them is a barnes and noble, i.e. "borders with a different name".  Only someone that doesn't ever buy books would think that Amazon killed local bookstores.

Also, public libraries have internet connections that the public can use for free, and many cities have municipal wireless.  "You have to get on the internet to order" wouldn't actually be any real barrier to entry to begin with.
 
2013-02-20 02:41:02 AM

RandomRandom: Why have the auto manufacturers never challenged them in court? ...or have they?



Why should they?

By maintaining the status quo, they retain their ability to con people into the most profitable car on the lot. Case in point, if you go to a dealer asking to see a specific model of car, they know you've researched that car, so they'll take you to every model BUT that car. And since many people make their decision the same day, especially in the case of "I can't guarantee I'll have this same price tomorrow", there's little chance of the customer researching the price or quality of the car they decide to buy.

On the internet, every possible advantage is eliminated. Checking the price and quality is just a new browser tab, there's no salespeople to tell you "how good you'll look in this car", there's no "boss" to broker a once-in-a-lifetime-deal that's actually $1500 higher than the sticker price of the same car in the next town over, etc.
 
2013-02-20 02:41:30 AM

Popcorn Johnny: JohnnyC: I hate that I end up having to remove those farking things from any car I purchase from a dealership.

All you have to do is ask your salesperson that it be removed or not put on in the first place.


Maybe so... I don't even want to be put in a position to ask. Really I prefer that the sticker never be put on unless they ask first (or those dumb license plate frames). For the most part I want as little actual interaction with the salesperson as possible. I just want to find the car I'm interested in, see a car history report on it, inspect the car, take it for a test drive, pay for it outright and never speak to them again. I find all dealerships to be sleazy and annoying. The sticker is only part of it.

Sometimes I get the feeling that the car dealerships don't like it when I just pay for the car in total. I've had more than one try to convince me to finance it even though I explained I was just going to pay for it in full. I imagine they must get some kind of kickback on the interest from the financing or something.
 
2013-02-20 02:43:01 AM

gingerjet: I can understand the idiotic laws around liquor sales because of the repeal of the 21st amendment   But car sales?  No.  I should be able to drive my ass to any state, buy a car, and drive it back.  But thanks to idiotic state laws, collusion, and outright threats - that isn't possible.

/also want to be able to buy a car on a fark'n sunday


I actually know why some lots are closed on Sundays.  Well, some states say that car lots must be closed on Sundays, others, like Texas, says it has to be either Saturday or Sunday.  The reason why is for the car salesman.  If the lot wasn't forced to be closed at least one day a week, then most of the salesmen would be working open to close seven days a week.

Car sales is a weird industry.  People only go to dealerships to buy cars, never because they have 30 minutes to spare.  Most of the time buyers know what car they want to buy when they go to the dealerships (exception are used car lots where the inventory changes day to day).  However, most car salesmen have a close ratio of less than 30%.  Mathematically, you'd look at the number of salesmen on the lot, the number of customers who visit, and figure that each salesman is closing one sale a day, at least.  But no.  Part of it is car salesman who starts off with "Can I help you?"  That phrase can instantly kill a sale.  And the other part are customers who have an odd problem with car salesman.  Which is really stupid.  The customer goes to buy a car, runs into a car salesman and says "Just looking." or runs off when a car salesman approaches.  That's no different than going to the doctor after breaking your arm, seeing the doctor walk into the examine room and saying "Oh, yeah, everything's okay, gotta go!" and leave the hospital.  (and, by the way, while a car salesman really shouldn't say 'Can I help you?', a Doctor is there is actually help you, so they can say it and not sound stupid).  And, by the way, a good salesman isn't going to lie to you because sales is a referral business.  If he/she gets caught in a lie, that sale is dead and there are zero referrals coming in.  If the lie is discovered after the sale is closed, then there is no more repeat business.  Again, sales relies on a repeat business as well as referrals.
 
2013-02-20 02:43:02 AM

Great Janitor: In 1998, I was training to be a car salesman and someone asked about the possibility of selling cars online.  My trainer answered it with "No, not really a good idea."  and then he mentioned that you can't test drive a car online.  Last time I went car shopping, there were a few cars that I looked at, thought they were decent, then I sat inside the car and thought "Oh fark no." When you look at a car online, you see what the dealer wants you to see.  When you see a car in person, you see everything.

Here it is, 2013 and it's still the same.  If you're going to go tens of thousands of dollars into debt on a purchase, it's best to actually look at the car in person, test drive it, learn how all the different features work, etc...  Hell, buying current car and my wife's current car, had it been online only we probably would have purchased lemons.  The test drive allowed us to filter out the cars in piss poor condition, ones that had obvious problems (I'm 6'1", one car we got into, the seat adjuster was broken and the last person to adjust that seat apparently was 5'3". There was no way I could drive that car in that condition).  Now this was a used car dealership, which means you really want to test drive the car before purchasing.  And the salesman hated me.  I turned down test driving one car because the keyless entry remote didn't work.  (He said "It's probably just the batteries."  I said "Fix it and I'll take another look, if not I'll look at a car with all the features working."). But the same is true for new cars as well.  I enjoy watching Top Gear, and there have been a few times when they've test driven a car and mentioned just how cheap looking/feeling the car's interior felt.  There was one episode where Jeremy Clarkson was driving a Corvette and the upper part of the seat belt broke.  Hell, last summer I was working as a car salesman and drove every new car model on the lot and there were a few that I just didn't care for.


I can conceed to that point that looking at a car online isnt the same as sitting in it.   But what does this have to do with laws banning people who dont care?  And why couldnt a car company send a few display models to a small "test drive spot".. employ 2-3 dudes to let people test drive cars by appointment so they can make up their mind and order online.  Im sure it would end up saving everyone money.   These car dealers end up having jobs just to have jobs.
 
2013-02-20 02:43:28 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Amazon killed Borders. Now people without the Internet can't buy books.

So, yeah, it sounds great and it's really convenient to buy stuff online and have it delivered. But once you leave your little technologically enhanced sphere, there are plenty of disadvantaged people out there that rely on bricks and mortar stores to supply their needs. If you kill off the local dealership, you're taking that choice away from them and hurting us all.


7/10. This could get some bites.
 
2013-02-20 02:43:56 AM

RandomRandom: How are these state laws not a violation of the commerce clause of the Constitution?

Why have the auto manufacturers never challenged them in court? ...or have they?


Companies do this all the time. It's called rent-seeking.


Yogimus: Buy car overseas.


Sure. And end up with a car that was sent there because it was underwater for a week after Hurricane Katrina.
 
2013-02-20 02:44:02 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Amazon killed Borders. Now people without the Internet can't buy books.

So, yeah, it sounds great and it's really convenient to buy stuff online and have it delivered. But once you leave your little technologically enhanced sphere, there are plenty of disadvantaged people out there that rely on bricks and mortar stores to supply their needs. If you kill off the local dealership, you're taking that choice away from them and hurting us all.


That is the shiattiest false dichotomy that's ever existed, and I've been on the internet for quite a bit now.
 
2013-02-20 02:47:00 AM

Great Janitor: The reason why is for the car salesman.  If the lot wasn't forced to be closed at least one day a week, then most of the salesmen would be working open to close seven days a week.


That's why all the restaurants, clothes stores and shops near my house close one day a week.
 
2013-02-20 02:53:02 AM

fusillade762: RandomRandom: How are these state laws not a violation of the commerce clause of the Constitution?

Why have the auto manufacturers never challenged them in court? ...or have they?

Companies do this all the time. It's called rent-seeking.


Yogimus: Buy car overseas.

Sure. And end up with a car that was sent there because it was underwater for a week after Hurricane Katrina.


... um... are you retarded?
 
2013-02-20 02:53:06 AM

JohnnyC: Popcorn Johnny: JohnnyC: I hate that I end up having to remove those farking things from any car I purchase from a dealership.

All you have to do is ask your salesperson that it be removed or not put on in the first place.

Maybe so... I don't even want to be put in a position to ask. Really I prefer that the sticker never be put on unless they ask first (or those dumb license plate frames). For the most part I want as little actual interaction with the salesperson as possible. I just want to find the car I'm interested in, see a car history report on it, inspect the car, take it for a test drive, pay for it outright and never speak to them again. I find all dealerships to be sleazy and annoying. The sticker is only part of it.

Sometimes I get the feeling that the car dealerships don't like it when I just pay for the car in total. I've had more than one try to convince me to finance it even though I explained I was just going to pay for it in full. I imagine they must get some kind of kickback on the interest from the financing or something.


Because when you finance the car the dealership makes more money from the interest.  If you pay a car in cash, they aren't going to knock much money off the price of the car if at all.  Get the car financed, and they'll be willing to knock more off the price of the car because they'll make it up through interest.  One of the first lessons I learned is that there is more mark up on a can of corn at the supermarket than there is on a new car.  To increase the profits, they want you to finance.  In 2005 I bought a new car for $10,000.  On a five year note, after a $1,000 down payment, I would have ended up paying over $25,000.  Smarter move is to take what you can afford as a monthly payment, save it for three years and use that as a down payment on a pre-owned car. There is almost no difference between the 2013 version of a car and the 2012 version, save for that the odometer reads.  But that year difference can mean thousands of dollars.  Worse, buy that car new, drive it off the lot, and it's pre-owned and lost most of it's value.  Buy it pre-owned and it doesn't lose all it's value instantly.
 
2013-02-20 02:53:50 AM

RandomRandom: How are these state laws not a violation of the commerce clause of the Constitution?


Because Congress has the power to regulate that which it subsidizes. The commerce clause is the PROBLEM, not the solution.
 
2013-02-20 02:56:42 AM

JohnnyC: I find all dealerships to be sleazy and annoying.


You and the rest of the world. The worst part is when you meet with the financing guy. You can tell them no to an extended warranty and other extras 20 times and they'll still be trying to sell you one.
 
2013-02-20 03:01:47 AM

PerilousApricot: Great Janitor: The reason why is for the car salesman.  If the lot wasn't forced to be closed at least one day a week, then most of the salesmen would be working open to close seven days a week.

That's why all the restaurants, clothes stores and shops near my house close one day a week.


The difference is that salesmen work on pure commission.  Restaurant/Retail employees are hourly.  In a pure commission environment everyone works 6 or 7 days a week.  If you're having a bad week, you work that seventh day in hopes of having a paycheck.  If you're having a good week, you tend to keep it going buy working that seventh day.  Having a law that says that certain industries, like car sales, must be closed one day a week means that no one is going to force themselves to work seven days, and the boss isn't going to expect anyone to work seven days a week.  Something else that happens in pure commission environments.

I've been in some places were the work week was just four days last sales appointment was at 7pm.  I've been to others were it was officially six days, but in reality it was seven days with the work day starting at 8am and being told that if you're home by 9pm you probably didn't make any money.

When everyone is paid hourly or salaried, the work week gets limited to 40 hours in most cases to avoid over time or comp time.  So the business can run seven days a week and the staff can have two days a week or more off (used to work retail.  One week put in almost 60 hours, next week lucking to put in 10 hours).
 
2013-02-20 03:03:29 AM
If a person feels comfortable enough to buy clothes online, they'll likely feel comfortable enough to buy a car without trying it on as well.  So long as there is a return option, I guess.
 
2013-02-20 03:07:26 AM

Great Janitor: That's no different than going to the doctor after breaking your arm, seeing the doctor walk into the examine room and saying "Oh, yeah, everything's okay, gotta go!" and leave the hospital.


Imma go on a limb and say that's a really stupid analogy.  The idea that I need a car salesman as much as I need a doctor when I've got a broken arm...  That I can't look at cars on a car lot without the "assistance" of a salesperson.  Well, hell, I don't even know how to express how dumb that idea is.

Great Janitor: And, by the way, a good salesman isn't going to lie to you because sales is a referral business.


Oh that's just horseshiat.  First, 50% of the employees you see at a dealership will not be there the next year (http://ezinearticles.com/?High-Employee-Turnover&id=3126149).  Even if you buy a car every two f*cking years, chances are you're not going to buy it from the same guy.

And I'm going to go on a limb and say that nobody has ever - EVER - told me, "you've gotta see my guy Steve up at the Ford dealer.  He'll get you a solid deal, yessirree!"  That's absurd.  This isn't Mayberry.  The dealer and sales guy knows that they will very likely never see you again and will thus bilk you out of as much money as possible while you're in front of them.

The idea that a car salesman has any compunction about lying to you is ridiculous and contrary to nearly everyone's experience.
 
2013-02-20 03:07:43 AM

Yogimus: fusillade762: RandomRandom: How are these state laws not a violation of the commerce clause of the Constitution?

Why have the auto manufacturers never challenged them in court? ...or have they?

Companies do this all the time. It's called rent-seeking.


Yogimus: Buy car overseas.

Sure. And end up with a car that was sent there because it was underwater for a week after Hurricane Katrina.

... um... are you retarded?


Yes. You caught me.
 
2013-02-20 03:12:25 AM

Great Janitor: Get the car financed, and they'll be willing to knock more off the price of the car because they'll make it up through interest.



In my experience, the best way to get the lowest bottom-line price (in both new and used sales) is 1. bring a friend or relative and have them talk about their kid/spouse needing a car (the salesperson will drop the price right away if they think they can get a referral out of the sale), 2. act like you're interested in financing through the dealership until you get a final quote, 3. decide that your bank can offer a better rate, so you'll be paying in cash.

The dealer will most likely be a little upset, but in my experience of being the buyer twice and the friend four times times, I've never seen a dealer refuse to honor the quoted price.
 
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