If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Talking Points Memo)   By opposing Obamacare twenty-six GOP states ceded control of their health care system to Washington instead. "The national government will now be setting the framework for at least half of the country"   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 76
    More: Ironic, GOP, obamacare, health care system, insurance exchange, Just Seventeen, software framework, United States, health cares  
•       •       •

3768 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Feb 2013 at 5:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-02-19 07:32:59 PM
6 votes:

CujoQuarrel: snocone: The best health insurance Money will buy you.
Congress gets real health insurance. Free!
Why not you?

/'cause when it is for everybody, it is not/cannot be free
//USA home of the most PROFIT on human misery ever invented

Health care is never 'Free'

You just want someone else to pay for yours


No, we all pay.  And as a country we would get better return on our f--king investment, that's for sure.

cdn.theatlantic.com

I would be fine with paying more in taxes for a single payer or government run system.  The three insurers I've had in my life have all f--ked up in a variety of innovative ways that ends up with them getting more money, and myself/my doctor/my pharmacist/my nurse/the financial folks at work wasting time and energy because they're refusing to cover another goddamn thing even though it damn well should be covered (medication because I was "over 18", routine office visits - have to get handwritten scripts for one med - hell, they refused to cover a X-Ray *in my doctor's office* and claimed it was outside lab work last f--king month, took a year and a doctor's somewhat threatning phone call to get the sleep study that diagnosed me with narcolepsy covered).

Bring it on.  At least I get to f--king vote for the people in charge of the kit and kaboodle then (or in charge of hiring them at any rate).  Better than what I have now.
2013-02-19 04:10:14 PM
6 votes:
Theda Skocpol, a professor at Harvard University and expert on health care politics and policy, said in an email Tuesday. "State-level experiments and variants will often have a more progressive flavor - in the states doing their own exchanges - and of course those may create models that could later spread. Meanwhile, the feds will at least create some consistency."

I didn't even think of this.  Not only is the Federal government taking over basically all of the red states' health care exchanges, but it also means that none of the red states are going to be implementing competing models.  The only one of the red states that might actually try something clever is Utah, but that is vs 20 or something blue states.  So if an alternative model comes out, it will almost certainly be based on a plan started by Democrats.
2013-02-19 06:47:33 PM
4 votes:

jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.

They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.


I suggest you find another provider.  If there were only a place that you could go to where different providers could compete for your business.

Wouldn't that be grand?
2013-02-19 05:49:45 PM
4 votes:
And once again the intellectual bankruptcy of the modern conservative movement is proved.
2013-02-19 05:43:32 PM
4 votes:

Whiskey Pete: [i1162.photobucket.com image 360x480]


I farking love it when people clearly on Medicare complain about government "helth" care.
2013-02-19 04:38:39 PM
4 votes:
Health insurance ≠ health care
2013-02-19 04:29:15 PM
4 votes:
Naw, the insurance industry and the medical industry will be setting the rules for a very long time, as they have been for a very long time.
2013-02-19 04:14:57 PM
4 votes:
s18.postimage.org

No compromise? No say.
2013-02-19 06:37:28 PM
3 votes:
As the article points out, this means that Republicans can now whine and complain every time there is a problem with the federal system. Of course this tactic will require that the GOP and its supporters conveniently forget that they once had the opportunity to mold the system as they pleased, which let's be honest, is almost guaranteed.
2013-02-19 06:34:32 PM
3 votes:

Ken VeryBigLiar: Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.

You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?


I hope so. One of the biggest problems with working for a small company are really crappy health insurance options available at most of them.  It makes it really difficult for small companies to attract talented employees.
2013-02-19 06:09:25 PM
3 votes:
To be clear, Republicans didn't oppose universal coverage.

They opposed creating a level, competitive marketplace where health insurance companies have to compete with one another in order to acquire new customers.

You know, Communism.
2013-02-19 04:59:43 PM
3 votes:
I'm just glad to Christ Arizona won't be doing its own thing.
2013-02-20 12:00:48 AM
2 votes:

Hobodeluxe: Karac: I imagine there's a lot of stuff you can get in an ER that'll make a $3750 bill in less than a business day.

a lot of things. an MRI for one.


Pretty damn close, yeah.  I have a bill right here from when I went to the ER for a kidney stone last June...
Billed charges to date: 3402.00
Receipts to date: 1196.61 (how much the insurance company paid them)
Adjustments to date: 1563.89 (how much they cut the price by, for the insurance company*)
Balance forward: 641.50 (what I have to pay)

*If I hadn't had insurance, they would't have cut the price by that much for me... though from the days when my wife didn't have insurance, I think they usually cut it 40-60% if you're uninsured but willing to pay  something.  The same is not true for prescription medicines - when I was college-age, my dad and I had the same bronchitis, got the same prescription, and what his insurance paid for it, plus his co-pay, was half of the "cash" price for me as an uninsured person.
2013-02-19 10:22:15 PM
2 votes:
Mister Tweak  - That makes sense only if you're a single 22-year-old with no assets and no prospects of long-term financial growth. If you're a 45-year-old married parent halfway through a mortgage, one or two kids within sight of college, your health, financial, and moral obligations are a lot more complex.
Those of us who do pay into health insurance, and have done so for decades, get a little tired of the increasing burden tossed on us by both irresponsible individuals who show up at the ER with a nice case of Honda Rash, and "employers" who 1099 everyone, and leave the local county/state/city to pick up the tab when one of the "independent contractors" gets sick or injured.
I realize those are only two small parts of why our health care system is horribly broken, but that's the point here: we realize it's broken, we do what we can to fix it, realizing that it's not going to happen overnight, and we also understand that a lot of leeches will suck more out of the system than they put in;

Cujo -

Your plan to sigh up for insurance when you need it wont work - see above

As someone who has "complex moral obligations" and works on a 1099 basis I can tell you you can't just opt to get insurance when you are in the ER - the last go around I had there was 7k on my dime

I don't see you talking at ALL about health care COST - and why drug costs are so high - and DONT give me that "R and D" bull, either.

What I read in your post was "I can game the system" and that is what is wrong in the first place.
2013-02-19 08:02:21 PM
2 votes:

Bloody William: Maybe we should just take the economic element out of the patient/doctor relationship, and all the middlement involved.


exactly. there's no reason why a rich investor should profit off the illness or injury of another person. it's immoral. and insurance companies are only middlemen who take their cut too. they serve no real purpose but to take money from one to give to another minus their cut. they provide no benefit. the govt could handle administration of this industry. just as they have in other countries.
2013-02-19 07:45:21 PM
2 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Everyone does know how to game the system by now right?

If you are reasonably health DO  NOT GET THE INSURANCE. Pay the 'fine/tax'

If you do get sick go immediately and sign up, they can't reject you. If you get well, drop the insurance.

So we are going  have an 'insurance' system where we have only people taking out and no one putting in.

Yep. That's going to work. Yessirree Bob it's brilliant.


You remind me of those folks who think they can get "free stuff" by buying stuff on a credit card, transferring the balance to a different card, transferring that balance back to the original card (or a third card), then transferring that balance...etc.

Despite all those times that mommy told you that you're "very special", you're not actually smarter than the insurance companies.
2013-02-19 06:58:22 PM
2 votes:

Whiskey Pete: The fact that these folks have a huge portion of the country adhering to their agenda is......bewildering.


i14.photobucket.com
2013-02-19 06:48:56 PM
2 votes:
As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!
2013-02-19 06:46:47 PM
2 votes:

jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.


Think of it as a tax for being a disingenuous twat.
2013-02-19 06:37:43 PM
2 votes:

Ken VeryBigLiar: Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.

You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?


This is for the best.  Your ability to seek medical attention shouldn't be tied to your employment.  Of course if you lose your job in this system you lose you ability to pay for insurance so it's the same result.  Single payer is really the only reasonable solution to ensure everyone is insured and no one has to lapse their coverage due to unemployment.
2013-02-19 06:18:26 PM
2 votes:

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Health insurance ≠ health care


I applaud you for using the unequal sign instead of the commonly-used "equals divided by equals"
2013-02-19 06:09:32 PM
2 votes:
I'm confused. What does this have to do with Benghazi?
2013-02-19 06:09:27 PM
2 votes:

jigger: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-insurance-costs-20130218,0,173150 4 .story


Less than a year before Americans will be required to have insurance under President Obama's healthcare law, many of its backers are growing increasingly anxious that premiums could jump, driven up by the legislation itself. Higher premiums could undermine a core promise of the Affordable Care Act: to make basic health protections available to all Americans for the first time. Major rate increases also threaten to cause a backlash just as the law is supposed to deliver many key benefits Obama promised when he signed it in 2010.

What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?


Yeah rates never went up before, what gives?


Thanks Obama.
2013-02-19 06:02:18 PM
2 votes:

Isitoveryet: oh my answer is in TFA

The immediate political upshot for leaders of the Republican states that stonewalled the exchanges is that they'll avoid the wrath of their conservative flanks. And in the long-run, this decision allows them to more easily blame the federal government if things go wrong.


The flipside is that if it becomes wildly popular over time, as Social Security and Medicaid have, they've forever attatched it to Obama's legacy by branding it "Obamacare" for here to eternity.    It's like if you had to take emergency family medical leave and went to your boss and said "I need to take some Clinton Leave".
2013-02-19 05:59:03 PM
2 votes:
What's really stupid is that in Mississippi, the Republican Insurance Commissioner started to set up an Exchange because his thought is, if we're going to have it, lets have some say in it.

The Republican Governor almost took him out back and shot him for going along with the Fed plan.
2013-02-19 05:57:36 PM
2 votes:
Good.  Let's just call this "Reconstruction 2.0"
2013-02-19 05:54:15 PM
2 votes:
It wasn't their opposition to Obamacare that caused them to cede control. It was their inaction in planning for how their state would implement Obamacare that resulted in Washington setting up their health care exchange.

Oh, and the obstinate, tantrum throwing babies (the red states) can still take control of their exchange after it is set up by the feds.

But please continue your poutrage.
2013-02-19 05:47:22 PM
2 votes:

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Health insurance ≠ health care


Except when you don't have health insurance then you often can't afford health care.
2013-02-19 05:40:17 PM
2 votes:
Sort of further exposes the fact that the GOP has no ideas when it comes to the issue. Here is their big chance to show those big gubbermint spend-o-crats how it's done, and they've got nothing.
2013-02-19 05:31:09 PM
2 votes:

This About That: Naw, the insurance industry and the medical industry will be setting the rules for a very long time, as they have been for a very long time.


Subject to the minimum requirements that the federal program will be using.

Basically, it's a public option for 26 states.

// trollface
2013-02-19 05:13:35 PM
2 votes:
The best health insurance Money will buy you.
Congress gets real health insurance. Free!
Why not you?

/'cause when it is for everybody, it is not/cannot be free
//USA home of the most PROFIT on human misery ever invented
2013-02-19 04:18:46 PM
2 votes:
1.bp.blogspot.com
2013-02-20 02:51:57 AM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: I still haven't gotten a real answer as to why anyone wouldn't actually want health insurance. I've seen ominous references to people "gaming the system" (paying the taxes instead of buying insurance) for some unstated reason, and the usual conservitard point of people wanting "free healthcare" and getting someone else to pay...what I HAVEN'T seen is anyone telling me why for the love of God anyone who could get it wouldn't have it.

I  know those of us who don't have it desperately want it and are hoping to survive until next year when we can no longer be turned down for our "pre-existing conditions" and will be delighted to pay the certain to be hyperinflated price the insurance companies will charge...but still: Can't someone give me a good reason why someone would voluntarily decide they'd prefer to roll the dice and not have insurance?


Because socialism. And the president is near.
2013-02-20 12:40:49 AM
1 votes:
I still haven't gotten a real answer as to why anyone wouldn't actually want health insurance. I've seen ominous references to people "gaming the system" (paying the taxes instead of buying insurance) for some unstated reason, and the usual conservitard point of people wanting "free healthcare" and getting someone else to pay...what I HAVEN'T seen is anyone telling me why for the love of God anyone who could get it wouldn't have it.

I  know those of us who don't have it desperately want it and are hoping to survive until next year when we can no longer be turned down for our "pre-existing conditions" and will be delighted to pay the certain to be hyperinflated price the insurance companies will charge...but still: Can't someone give me a good reason why someone would voluntarily decide they'd prefer to roll the dice and not have insurance?
2013-02-19 10:51:49 PM
1 votes:

Ablejack: Animatronik: So, they had a choice between ceding control to the federal govt. through insurance exchanges or ceding control of the exchanges to the federal govt.
Got it.
This is veiled attempt to eliminate health insurance while further eroding the states' power; they were right to refuse to participate in this little farce.

I wish. Instead it is an attempt to bolster the insurance model already in place. On it's own, the insurance model was failing to provide healthcare without bankrupting the nation. Obamacare shores up the plan by patching it piecemeal so that it has a chance to work. It is essentially a "fix old, no new" policy. That is also why, in part, it is complicated legislature. It would be much more streamlined and efficient to eliminate health insurance altogether and rid the sales model from our health.

Sadly, this is still the most relevant image from the health care debate.




lh4.googleusercontent.com
2013-02-19 10:25:11 PM
1 votes:
I think that actually, a good number of folks DID think their clever plan through.

The State governments don't have to take heat about how the exchanges are run now. They don't have to come up with their own plans, and they can complain bitterly about how things will be run, how the GU'B'MINT! is ROOONT'IN' EVERYTHING! And the insurance companies are happy, because they still get what they want, and essentially, this is a win-win for those state governments. The exchanges are run from Washington, their people still get covered, the insurance companies get clients, and best of all, they TOOK A STAND and the TRICKSY GOVERNMENT TOOK IT OVER and they can bellow about it all night and day, and still their people will be covered, and they can campaign about their strong stand.

This was the plan. It will put dollars in campaign funds, it will give folks capital with the Idiot Brigade for being strong minded, and best of all, they didn't have to compromise, and they still get what they want: insurance companies getting cash in pocket, without having any of the risk of having come up with anything themselves, since essentially, the Obama plan is dang close to what Romney already wanted to do anyhow, so really, this is a double victory. They've delivered a lot of contracts to the exchanges with their obstinacy, and will take zero heat if there are problems, and will be able to point at even the good things as THE GU'B'MINT GOT OUR HEALTHCARES AND THEY GO'INT ROOOONT IT!
2013-02-19 09:49:23 PM
1 votes:

Teufelaffe: Gyrfalcon: OK, now tell me why anyone would not want to have insurance all the time anyway. For real, no snark. I've been without insurance for three years and it's been a living hell. Why do you NOT want to carry health insurance?

Because trying to show the world how Obamacare is the worstest thing ever in the history of everything is way more important.


I guess that's the only reason. There cannot possibly be another one.
2013-02-19 09:18:26 PM
1 votes:
Well, the idiots in Cheyenne, here in Wyoming, sat around with their thumbs up their butts believing it would get overturned.  When it didn't, they all started crying, "there isn't enough time, whoa, whoa, whoa..."

No, you stupid, knuckle dragging morons, you should have proceeded with making plans for BOTH contingencies.  Instead you sat around and did nothing.  Too farking bad, now you don't get a say in the matter.  Oh, and they voted against additional medicaid coverage, so more poor people go without medical care.

Assholes.
2013-02-19 09:07:49 PM
1 votes:

Tigger: CujoQuarrel: Isitoveryet: CujoQuarrel: Everyone does know how to game the system by now right?

no.

and i don't think you'd get very far with your plan either.

As it stands right now

1) You can pay a smallish fine to get out of having to buy the insurance
2) You can not be turned down. If you get cancer today you can buy the insurance tomorrow and be covered.

So as a rational financial decision people should only buy the insurance if they are going to have more medical bills than the premium.

You cracked it and have outsmarted the thousands of actuaries, statisticians, lawyers and executives who have made billions for the insurance companies.

Well done.

They are sure going to be surprised when this happens.


OK, now tell me why anyone would not want to have insurance all the time anyway. For real, no snark. I've been without insurance for three years and it's been a living hell. Why do you NOT want to carry health insurance?
2013-02-19 08:50:42 PM
1 votes:

Ken VeryBigLiar: Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.

You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?


I don't understand this argument. Are you saying that all these years that companies have been offering health insurance for employees have been for altruistic reasons, but now that it's mandated that they offer it or face a fine, they're going to dump it wholesale and just pay the fine instead?

Offering health insurance to employees isn't a purely economic decision, and while employers will always try to minimize costs, this benefit has never been about profit or the bottom line beyond attracting quality workers who will improve the company. If they can save a buck, sure, they will, but cutting off their nose to spite their face simply because health insurance is mandatory now? I think not.
2013-02-19 08:07:53 PM
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Isitoveryet: CujoQuarrel: Everyone does know how to game the system by now right?

no.

and i don't think you'd get very far with your plan either.

As it stands right now

1) You can pay a smallish fine to get out of having to buy the insurance
2) You can not be turned down. If you get cancer today you can buy the insurance tomorrow and be covered.

So as a rational financial decision people should only buy the insurance if they are going to have more medical bills than the premium.


That makes sense only if you're a single 22-year-old with no assets and no prospects of long-term financial growth. If you're a 45-year-old married parent halfway through a mortgage, one or two kids within sight of college, your health, financial, and moral obligations are a lot more complex.

Those of us who do pay into health insurance, and have done so for decades, get a little tired of the increasing burden tossed on us by both irresponsible individuals who show up at the ER with a nice case of Honda Rash, and "employers" who 1099 everyone, and leave the local county/state/city to pick up the tab when one of the "independent contractors" gets sick or injured.

I realize those are only two small parts of why our health care system is horribly broken, but that's the point here: we realize it's broken, we do what we can to fix it, realizing that it's not going to happen overnight, and we also understand that a lot of leeches will suck more out of the system than they put in; this is hardly news, but the GOP has basically sat in the corner like a tantrum-prone toddler for the last six years on the matter, threatening "second-amendment remedies" and now indignantly complains the meal we've cooked while dodging flung poo and bullets tastes like a sh*t sandwich. It might have something to do with having to change their diapers every 15 minutes.
2013-02-19 07:53:58 PM
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Everyone does know how to game the system by now right?

If you are reasonably health DO  NOT GET THE INSURANCE. Pay the 'fine/tax'

If you do get sick go immediately and sign up, they can't reject you. If you get well, drop the insurance.

So we are going  have an 'insurance' system where we have only people taking out and no one putting in.

Yep. That's going to work. Yessirree Bob it's brilliant.


Isn't all of capitalism dependent on people making decisions with the intention of taking out more than they put in? Just as you wouldn't expect insurance companies to act magnanimously, why should consumers act magnanimously? It can often result in the tragedy of the commons, but ultimately all economics rely on actors pursuing transactions that they believe will leave them with more than they gave up from their point of view.

Maybe we should just take the economic element out of the patient/doctor relationship, and all the middlement involved.
2013-02-19 07:42:10 PM
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Everyone does know how to game the system by now right?

If you are reasonably health DO  NOT GET THE INSURANCE. Pay the 'fine/tax'

If you do get sick go immediately and sign up, they can't reject you. If you get well, drop the insurance.

So we are going  have an 'insurance' system where we have only people taking out and no one putting in.

Yep. That's going to work. Yessirree Bob it's brilliant.


Except that while insurance companies can no longer reject you for a "preexisting condition" they can choose to charge you more for one.  In addition, someone who already has insurance can get their non-emergency care a lot faster than someone who has to sign up for insurance first.  But you should totally go with your plan, I'm sure it will work out great for you.
2013-02-19 07:17:38 PM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: well that and you don't have docs who actually work 20 hours a week and make millions a year.


Why do you hate America?
media.tumblr.com

/my point was more that a single payer/government controlled healthcare system would be huge improvement regardless of whether it's private or public. I don't think I articulated that well.  Apologies.
2013-02-19 07:14:07 PM
1 votes:

Doktor_Zhivago: GAT_00: Doktor_Zhivago: jigger: illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!

The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.

The difference being?

In single-payer the doctors are private.  In the UK, the doctors are government employees.

Oh that's huge.  I can see the tremendous differences in that everyone gets healthcare but different people might sign the doc's paycheck.


well that and you don't have docs who actually work 20 hours a week and make millions a year.
2013-02-19 07:04:37 PM
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: insano: As the article points out, this means that Republicans can now whine and complain every time there is a problem with the federal system. Of course this tactic will require that the GOP and its supporters conveniently forget that they once had the opportunity to mold the system as they pleased, which let's be honest, is almost guaranteed.

With all the coverage mandates, how much "molding of the system" is there?


Well, half of the states are creating their owns systems, so we will see how much better or worse those do than the federal model. Coverage mandates do not dictate how an insurance exchange is set up or how well it is administered.
2013-02-19 07:04:00 PM
1 votes:

jigger: I'll bet your mom thinks you're a very clever boy


Your mom does too.
2013-02-19 06:56:45 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Doktor_Zhivago: jigger: illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!

The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.

The difference being?

In single-payer the doctors are private.  In the UK, the doctors are government employees.


Oh that's huge.  I can see the tremendous differences in that everyone gets healthcare but different people might sign the doc's paycheck.
2013-02-19 06:54:09 PM
1 votes:

vernonFL: Shiatty Medicaid is better than nothing.

But I imagine that these states are going to have some sort of shiatty medicaid.


a lot of them aren't expanding medicaid like Obama wanted. so they won't get those federal dollars nor the federal dollars for running their own exchanges, nor control of how it's administered and which companies get the contracts.
2013-02-19 06:53:07 PM
1 votes:

Doktor_Zhivago: jigger: illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!

The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.

The difference being?


In single-payer the doctors are private.  In the UK, the doctors are government employees.
2013-02-19 06:51:33 PM
1 votes:

jigger: illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!

The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.


The difference being?
2013-02-19 06:50:48 PM
1 votes:

illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!


you earned it. thanks for your service.
2013-02-19 06:50:13 PM
1 votes:

illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!


The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.
2013-02-19 06:49:26 PM
1 votes:

qorkfiend: Whiskey Pete: [i1162.photobucket.com image 360x480]

I farking love it when people clearly on Medicare complain about government "helth" care.


2.bp.blogspot.com

4.bp.blogspot.com

1.bp.blogspot.com

1.bp.blogspot.com
2013-02-19 06:49:14 PM
1 votes:

Tor_Eckman: jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.

They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.

I suggest you find another provider.  If there were only a place that you could go to where different providers could compete for your business.

Wouldn't that be grand?


I've got the cheapest right now. The cheapest. It's good though and a non-profit.
2013-02-19 06:42:11 PM
1 votes:

Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.


They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.
2013-02-19 06:42:03 PM
1 votes:

Ken VeryBigLiar: Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.

You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?


Why do these companies you speak of (or any company for that matter) provide health insurance now?

They haven't been required to do so up to this point, right?

So why have they been throwing all of that money away all of these years?
2013-02-19 06:37:46 PM
1 votes:

Karac: jigger: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-insurance-costs-20130218,0,173150 4 .story


Less than a year before Americans will be required to have insurance under President Obama's healthcare law, many of its backers are growing increasingly anxious that premiums could jump, driven up by the legislation itself. Higher premiums could undermine a core promise of the Affordable Care Act: to make basic health protections available to all Americans for the first time. Major rate increases also threaten to cause a backlash just as the law is supposed to deliver many key benefits Obama promised when he signed it in 2010.

What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

Obamacare is the reason health insurance premiums go up?  Damn him and that time machine!

Face it, as long as for-profit insurance companies are involved in health care.  They know they can get away with this because what are you going to do - tell them NOT to pay for your chemo?


Part of the law actually limits how much is for overhead, profit and the like.

There will be blood
2013-02-19 06:31:16 PM
1 votes:

Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.


You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?
2013-02-19 06:30:31 PM
1 votes:
When you dance with the tail you've sown, you reap the devil's bed.
2013-02-19 06:28:43 PM
1 votes:

Hollie Maea: These are staggeringly unintelligent people.  Remind me again why anyone would do ANYTHING these troglodytes suggest?


Because somebody lower on the socioeconomic ladder might get a handout, and that's socialism.
2013-02-19 06:24:58 PM
1 votes:
These are staggeringly unintelligent people.  Remind me again why anyone would do ANYTHING these troglodytes suggest?
2013-02-19 06:15:13 PM
1 votes:

DeathBySmiley: To be clear, Republicans didn't oppose universal coverage.

They opposed creating a level, competitive marketplace where health insurance companies have to compete with one another in order to acquire new customers Obama

You know, Communism that blah president.

2013-02-19 06:11:33 PM
1 votes:

jigger: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-insurance-costs-20130218,0,173150 4 .story


Less than a year before Americans will be required to have insurance under President Obama's healthcare law, many of its backers are growing increasingly anxious that premiums could jump, driven up by the legislation itself. Higher premiums could undermine a core promise of the Affordable Care Act: to make basic health protections available to all Americans for the first time. Major rate increases also threaten to cause a backlash just as the law is supposed to deliver many key benefits Obama promised when he signed it in 2010.

What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?


Obamacare is the reason health insurance premiums go up?  Damn him and that time machine!

Face it, as long as for-profit insurance companies are involved in health care.  They know they can get away with this because what are you going to do - tell them NOT to pay for your chemo?
2013-02-19 06:11:10 PM
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

Yeah rates never went up before, what gives?


Short term inconvenience > Long term solutions

Remember that when dealing with the GOP.
2013-02-19 06:04:21 PM
1 votes:

sdd2000: snocone: The best health insurance Money will buy you.
Congress gets real health insurance. Free! HOW ABOUT NOhttp://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/health-care-for-members-of-cong ress/
Why not you?

/'cause when it is for everybody, it is not/cannot be free
//USA home of the most PROFIT on human misery ever invented


I'm going to guess that inserting facts into this discussion isn't going to change anyone's mind.
2013-02-19 06:02:07 PM
1 votes:

BizarreMan: What's really stupid is that in Mississippi, the Republican Insurance Commissioner started to set up an Exchange because his thought is, if we're going to have it, lets have some say in it.

The Republican Governor almost took him out back and shot him for going along with the Fed plan.


Thereby ensuring that his state will be part of the Federal plan. Brilliant!
2013-02-19 06:01:47 PM
1 votes:

Isitoveryet: oh my answer is in TFA

The immediate political upshot for leaders of the Republican states that stonewalled the exchanges is that they'll avoid the wrath of their conservative flanks. And in the long-run, this decision allows them to more easily blame the federal government if things go wrong.


Let's not forget that allocating money to fund the program is largely left up to the state. There are some few states who are refusing to expand Medicaid because they claim they're unable to afford it. It also looks like a few states are intentionally trying to secure financial penalties that further strip the program of money (Texas appeared to be trying this).
zez
2013-02-19 06:00:31 PM
1 votes:
In Missouri they worded the bill so much in doublespeak that I'm pretty sure I voted differently than I wanted and I knew about it going in!
2013-02-19 05:53:38 PM
1 votes:

Isitoveryet: oh my answer is in TFA

The immediate political upshot for leaders of the Republican states that stonewalled the exchanges is that they'll avoid the wrath of their conservative flanks. And in the long-run, this decision allows them to more easily blame the federal government if things go wrong.


Yep, and there it is. And it's ultimately worth remembering: This is a plan that has been championed by such progressive luminaries as Bob Dole and Mitt Romney. The Republicans want Fartfartfartfartfartbongofartcare to succeed, and rather badly, because they know that it's the only way to keep the private health insurance gravy train rolling. They also want their sucker voting base to keep voting for them. This way, they get everything they want.
2013-02-19 05:53:23 PM
1 votes:
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
2013-02-19 05:49:24 PM
1 votes:
The fact that these folks have a huge portion of the country adhering to their agenda is......bewildering.
2013-02-19 05:46:20 PM
1 votes:
cunningplan.jpg
obamatrollface.jpg
lulz.jpg
roflmao.jpg
whyuno.jpg
likeasir.jpg
seewhatyoudidthere.jpg
roflcopter.gif
greatsuccess.jpg
everybodypanicturtle.jpg
boypickup.jpg
scumbagstacey.jpg
badluckbrian.jpg
2013-02-19 05:46:05 PM
1 votes:

snocone: The best health insurance Money will buy you.
Congress gets real health insurance. Free!

HOW ABOUT NOhttp://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/health-care-for-members-of-cong ress/
Why not you?

/'cause when it is for everybody, it is not/cannot be free
//USA home of the most PROFIT on human misery ever invented
2013-02-19 05:45:25 PM
1 votes:
oh my answer is in TFA

The immediate political upshot for leaders of the Republican states that stonewalled the exchanges is that they'll avoid the wrath of their conservative flanks. And in the long-run, this decision allows them to more easily blame the federal government if things go wrong.
2013-02-19 04:51:21 PM
1 votes:
Which will also lead to large scale industry adjustments.  They'll like a sure thing, and more than half of the country using the same standards will lead to gradual adjustments.
 
Displayed 76 of 76 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report