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(Talking Points Memo)   By opposing Obamacare twenty-six GOP states ceded control of their health care system to Washington instead. "The national government will now be setting the framework for at least half of the country"   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 192
    More: Ironic, GOP, obamacare, health care system, insurance exchange, Just Seventeen, software framework, United States, health cares  
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3770 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Feb 2013 at 5:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-19 06:24:58 PM  
These are staggeringly unintelligent people.  Remind me again why anyone would do ANYTHING these troglodytes suggest?
 
2013-02-19 06:28:43 PM  

Hollie Maea: These are staggeringly unintelligent people.  Remind me again why anyone would do ANYTHING these troglodytes suggest?


Because somebody lower on the socioeconomic ladder might get a handout, and that's socialism.
 
2013-02-19 06:29:41 PM  

jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?


It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.
 
2013-02-19 06:30:31 PM  
When you dance with the tail you've sown, you reap the devil's bed.
 
2013-02-19 06:31:03 PM  

karmaceutical: DeathBySmiley: To be clear, Republicans didn't oppose universal coverage.

They opposed creating a level, competitive marketplace where health insurance companies have to compete with one another in order to acquire new customers.

You know, Communism.

So communism is a system in which for-profit companies must compete for customers?  As opposed to the cartel system we have now?


What YOU have is a broken Sarcasm-O-Meter.
 
2013-02-19 06:31:16 PM  

Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.


You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?
 
2013-02-19 06:34:32 PM  

Ken VeryBigLiar: Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.

You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?


I hope so. One of the biggest problems with working for a small company are really crappy health insurance options available at most of them.  It makes it really difficult for small companies to attract talented employees.
 
2013-02-19 06:34:36 PM  

Hetfield: I'm confused. What does this have to do with Benghazi?


Libyan Extremists are going to run the Death Panels, and they could come up to you at any time.  Keep an eye out for Obama dithering. If he's  seen dithering, gird your loins.
 
2013-02-19 06:34:54 PM  

Ken VeryBigLiar: Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.

You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?


As long as the exchanges don't suck I don't really have a problem with that.  However the GOP will do everything it can to destroy them and make them useless so they can point their fingers at the ACA and scream at the top of their redneck lungs:
"See! Dint I tells you! I tol' you it was shoshulist bullshiat! I done tol' you!"
 
2013-02-19 06:37:22 PM  
They sound concerned.
 
2013-02-19 06:37:28 PM  
As the article points out, this means that Republicans can now whine and complain every time there is a problem with the federal system. Of course this tactic will require that the GOP and its supporters conveniently forget that they once had the opportunity to mold the system as they pleased, which let's be honest, is almost guaranteed.
 
2013-02-19 06:37:43 PM  

Ken VeryBigLiar: Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.

You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?


This is for the best.  Your ability to seek medical attention shouldn't be tied to your employment.  Of course if you lose your job in this system you lose you ability to pay for insurance so it's the same result.  Single payer is really the only reasonable solution to ensure everyone is insured and no one has to lapse their coverage due to unemployment.
 
2013-02-19 06:37:46 PM  

Karac: jigger: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-insurance-costs-20130218,0,173150 4 .story


Less than a year before Americans will be required to have insurance under President Obama's healthcare law, many of its backers are growing increasingly anxious that premiums could jump, driven up by the legislation itself. Higher premiums could undermine a core promise of the Affordable Care Act: to make basic health protections available to all Americans for the first time. Major rate increases also threaten to cause a backlash just as the law is supposed to deliver many key benefits Obama promised when he signed it in 2010.

What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

Obamacare is the reason health insurance premiums go up?  Damn him and that time machine!

Face it, as long as for-profit insurance companies are involved in health care.  They know they can get away with this because what are you going to do - tell them NOT to pay for your chemo?


Part of the law actually limits how much is for overhead, profit and the like.

There will be blood
 
2013-02-19 06:40:01 PM  

Karac: Obamacare is the reason health insurance premiums go up?  Damn him and that time machine!


Yeah, didn't RTFA. It's ok.

It's the reason they'll jump and have been jumping despite the purported aim of the "Affordable" Care Act.
 
2013-02-19 06:41:15 PM  

insano: As the article points out, this means that Republicans can now whine and complain every time there is a problem with the federal system. Of course this tactic will require that the GOP and its supporters conveniently forget that they once had the opportunity to mold the system as they pleased, which let's be honest, is almost guaranteed.


With all the coverage mandates, how much "molding of the system" is there?
 
2013-02-19 06:42:03 PM  

Ken VeryBigLiar: Cletus C.: When smaller companies have a chance to buy into these exchanges, state or federal, the real value (or not) of the act will be known. That happens in a couple years, I believe.

You mean when small business dump their employees on the exchanges because it's cheaper to pay the capped federal penalty (after the first 30 employees who are excluded) than pay for a health plan on your employees?


Why do these companies you speak of (or any company for that matter) provide health insurance now?

They haven't been required to do so up to this point, right?

So why have they been throwing all of that money away all of these years?
 
2013-02-19 06:42:11 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.


They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.
 
2013-02-19 06:45:48 PM  

jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.

They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.


Crazy. I'm under thirty and my wife is too. Our premiums increased by almost 3 whole percents!!!
 
2013-02-19 06:46:47 PM  

jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.


Think of it as a tax for being a disingenuous twat.
 
2013-02-19 06:46:57 PM  

dehehn: This is for the best.  Your ability to seek medical attention shouldn't be tied to your employment.  Of course if you lose your job in this system you lose you ability to pay for insurance so it's the same result.  Single payer is really the only reasonable solution to ensure everyone is insured and no one has to lapse their coverage due to unemployment.


Republican Jesus told me that people only ever become unemployed because they're lazy and don't work hard and don't believe in America hard enough.  So why the hell would we pay for insurance for lazy, unamerican swine!

/If you're not rich you don't work hard.  True story.
 
2013-02-19 06:47:05 PM  
They'd just completely f*ck the whole thing up anyway.
 
2013-02-19 06:47:33 PM  

jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.

They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.


I suggest you find another provider.  If there were only a place that you could go to where different providers could compete for your business.

Wouldn't that be grand?
 
2013-02-19 06:48:16 PM  

Eshman: jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.

Think of it as a tax for being a disingenuous twat.


What's disingenuous about naming the law the Affordable Care Act? It's what the law is doing, making health care affordable.
 
2013-02-19 06:48:56 PM  
As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!
 
2013-02-19 06:49:14 PM  

Tor_Eckman: jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.

They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.

I suggest you find another provider.  If there were only a place that you could go to where different providers could compete for your business.

Wouldn't that be grand?


I've got the cheapest right now. The cheapest. It's good though and a non-profit.
 
2013-02-19 06:49:23 PM  

jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.

They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.


Yes, there is absolutely no way having wide spread access to preventative care would save insurance companies money in the long run.
 
2013-02-19 06:49:26 PM  

qorkfiend: Whiskey Pete: [i1162.photobucket.com image 360x480]

I farking love it when people clearly on Medicare complain about government "helth" care.


2.bp.blogspot.com

4.bp.blogspot.com

1.bp.blogspot.com

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-19 06:49:32 PM  

jigger: I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.


Pretty sure that's due to violent video games, but you go ahead and blame the President if it makes you feel better.
 
2013-02-19 06:50:13 PM  

illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!


The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.
 
2013-02-19 06:50:48 PM  

illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!


you earned it. thanks for your service.
 
2013-02-19 06:51:33 PM  

jigger: illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!

The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.


The difference being?
 
2013-02-19 06:53:07 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: jigger: illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!

The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.

The difference being?


In single-payer the doctors are private.  In the UK, the doctors are government employees.
 
2013-02-19 06:53:11 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.

They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.

Yes, there is absolutely no way having wide spread access to preventative care would save insurance companies money in the long run.


http://healthcarecostmonitor.thehastingscenter.org/louiserussell/a-p er sistent-myth/
Prevention Will Reduce Medical Costs: A Persistent Myth
 
2013-02-19 06:54:09 PM  

vernonFL: Shiatty Medicaid is better than nothing.

But I imagine that these states are going to have some sort of shiatty medicaid.


a lot of them aren't expanding medicaid like Obama wanted. so they won't get those federal dollars nor the federal dollars for running their own exchanges, nor control of how it's administered and which companies get the contracts.
 
2013-02-19 06:54:21 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: jigger: I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.

Pretty sure that's due to violent video games, but you go ahead and blame the President if it makes you feel better.


Don't forget the 111th Congress.
 
2013-02-19 06:55:11 PM  
Too Much Paperwork!
 
2013-02-19 06:55:31 PM  

illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!


That's fair.  And I'm jealous.

Got kicked off of my last individual insurance plan for being a day late on payment (I had been late one other time, pretty much because my premiums jumped up every goddamn month so I couldn't write a check until I got the statement, and I got it late).

However, they did take a full 6 weeks to refund my money.  F--king assholes.  Have it through work now at least.
 
2013-02-19 06:56:45 PM  

GAT_00: Doktor_Zhivago: jigger: illannoyin: As someone who is exempt from "Obamacare" I don't really have a dog in this fight but I suggest they model the inevitable single payer 100% federally run healthcare system on the VA. I've been very happy with the care I've received from them.

/Disabled veteran
//Free health care for life
///Thanks taxpayers!

The VA isn't single payer insurance, it's full-on government health care like the NHS in the UK.

The difference being?

In single-payer the doctors are private.  In the UK, the doctors are government employees.


Oh that's huge.  I can see the tremendous differences in that everyone gets healthcare but different people might sign the doc's paycheck.
 
2013-02-19 06:57:26 PM  

qorkfiend: Whiskey Pete: [i1162.photobucket.com image 360x480]

I farking love it when people clearly on Medicare complain about government "helth" care.


These people have to be related to the guy who was holding the " Remember descent. The highest form of patriotic" sign at a Tea Party rally....
 
2013-02-19 06:58:22 PM  

Whiskey Pete: The fact that these folks have a huge portion of the country adhering to their agenda is......bewildering.


i14.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-19 06:59:26 PM  

jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.

Pretty sure that's due to violent video games, but you go ahead and blame the President if it makes you feel better.

Don't forget the 111th Congress.


Not to mention ACORN and Michelle Obama's vegetable garden.

Also, Benghazi.
 
2013-02-19 07:01:53 PM  

The Larch: jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.

Pretty sure that's due to violent video games, but you go ahead and blame the President if it makes you feel better.

Don't forget the 111th Congress.

Not to mention ACORN and Michelle Obama's vegetable garden.

Also, Benghazi.


I'll bet your mom thinks you're a very clever boy.
 
2013-02-19 07:02:36 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: Oh that's huge.  I can see the tremendous differences in that everyone gets healthcare but different people might sign the doc's paycheck.


It makes a huge difference in who runs the death panels.
 
2013-02-19 07:03:59 PM  

jigger: Doktor_Zhivago: Oh that's huge.  I can see the tremendous differences in that everyone gets healthcare but different people might sign the doc's paycheck.

It makes a huge difference in who runs the death panels.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-02-19 07:04:00 PM  

jigger: I'll bet your mom thinks you're a very clever boy


Your mom does too.
 
2013-02-19 07:04:28 PM  

jigger: Doktor_Zhivago: Oh that's huge.  I can see the tremendous differences in that everyone gets healthcare but different people might sign the doc's paycheck.

It makes a huge difference in who runs the death panels.


Palin like typing detected.
 
2013-02-19 07:04:33 PM  
Makes sense if you think about it. The Republicans voted against the stimulus, then lined up for the credit. Now the bush league Republicans looking to run for Congress can stand in front of hospitals and crow about how so many more people are insured in their states, no thanks to that Obama (also, they will fight to keep the feds hands out of Obamacare and Social Security)
 
2013-02-19 07:04:37 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: insano: As the article points out, this means that Republicans can now whine and complain every time there is a problem with the federal system. Of course this tactic will require that the GOP and its supporters conveniently forget that they once had the opportunity to mold the system as they pleased, which let's be honest, is almost guaranteed.

With all the coverage mandates, how much "molding of the system" is there?


Well, half of the states are creating their owns systems, so we will see how much better or worse those do than the federal model. Coverage mandates do not dictate how an insurance exchange is set up or how well it is administered.
 
2013-02-19 07:06:20 PM  

jigger: StreetlightInTheGhetto: jigger: Soup4Bonnie: jigger: What? The Affordable Care Act will cause rates to rise? Who saw that coming, huh?

It is entirely possible that the health insurance companies that had to cut refund checks last year enjoyed it so much that they are raising their rates in order to do so again.

They have to get permission from the feds and the states to raise rates more than 10%. Some companies now have that permission and for some people (read young people) their rates are going to go up 30% or more. I know for a fact that mine are about to go up more than 30%.

Yes, there is absolutely no way having wide spread access to preventative care would save insurance companies money in the long run.

http://healthcarecostmonitor.thehastingscenter.org/louiserussell/a-p er sistent-myth/
Prevention Will Reduce Medical Costs: A Persistent Myth


Now that's interesting.  Their Wikipedia page nearly exclusively cites the the Hastings Center for its article, and a shocking amount of Google results again just go back to their own website (or their social media sites).  It's quite impressive.  Hell, even the Wiki for their journal references back to their own website for 2/3 cites.

Curious and curiouser...

Here, have a http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0708558  real journal cite.  Which does mention that some procedures financially don't necessarily make sense as far as preventative care cost vs benefit goes.

However, "preventative care" is a very all encompassing term.  Simply having medical access for people who don't have it boosts productivity. http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20120912/NEWS08/120919959
 
2013-02-19 07:08:39 PM  
Paging unintended consequences to the white courtesy phone.
 
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