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(CNN)   Georgia prepares to execute the state's smartest man   (cnnradio.cnn.com) divider line 231
    More: PSA, U.S. Supreme Court, Peggy Williams, developmental disabilities  
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23242 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2013 at 11:14 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-19 11:40:09 AM  
The pro-lifers have made it quite clear that ALL LIFE IS SACRED, and that death is God's decision, not man's.

That's what they believe. That is the definition of "pro-life." It's not "pro-life, except when..."

Of course this isn't the first time the religious have gone with the "pick and choose" method of believing what they want to believe (see: the bible).
 
2013-02-19 11:40:13 AM  
Why is being developmentally-challenged a valid excuse for murder? Whether you know what you are doing or not, I don't want you in general society if you have tendencies toward killing those around you. You are a danger to others, period.
 
2013-02-19 11:40:46 AM  

Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.


I'm pro-life across the board. The death penalty has caused the death of too many innocent people. Our justice system is too flawed for it to be an option.
 
2013-02-19 11:40:48 AM  
I'd be more compelled by a stay on execution for someone with an exceptionally high IQ. Death row inmate with a 200 IQ? Don't waste it. Give him some reading material, and offer him parole if he can make a major contribution to science.
 
2013-02-19 11:41:25 AM  

Khellendros: Weaver95: it's inconsistent because the pro-lifers themselves have stated that to be pro-life you must believe that all life is sacred. ALL life is sacred. even the lives of murderers on death row. they're life is sacred too. don't believe me? go read their literature. its very well defined.

I used to be one of them.  I marched on corners, and yelled at people entering abortion clinics.  I handed out the very literature you're talking about.  I had it farking memorized.  I know very well the arguments used, and how they apply to christian morality.  I escaped that life a long time ago.  And I can tell you this - if you're interested in making a point, you should address their argument as they see it, not as you would imagine it.  Their "every life is sacred" point specified innocent life, defined as children who have not yet had the ability or opportunity to hear the truth and commit their lives to christ.  And in the times those ideas were formed, it fit just fine with capital punishment.  It did so for centuries, and still does today.

"Every life is sacred" is not an all-encompassing statement.  They know it's not, and they don't argue that it is.


Too bad that's not in the Bible.
 
2013-02-19 11:42:21 AM  

xanadian: Weaver95: LineNoise: Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.

Not to start a debate, but i think there is room to differentiate "innocent" life, and someone who has demonstrated that they are unable to be a part of functional society.

i'm sorry but...no.  if you are pro-life, then ALL LIFE IS SACRED.  period.  the premise of the pro-life ideology is that we don't get to pick and choose who gets to live or die, that's up to God.

The premise as I had it explained to me is that babies/fetuses (feti?)/zygoats are innocent, while murderers are not.  So it's more "pro-innocent-life."

That's not to say the death penalty still isn't barbaric, though...


It appears you're confusing the terms pro life with anti abortion.  The difference is pretty self defining.
 
2013-02-19 11:42:24 AM  
For pro-lifers - as far as I know, there are no regular funeral rights for a miscarriage. If the religion doesn't treat a miscarriage as if it was a human being, how is it a human being by religious standards?
 
2013-02-19 11:42:48 AM  

Brubold: Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.

I'm pro-life across the board. The death penalty has caused the death of too many innocent people. Our justice system is too flawed for it to be an option.


And that is a valid and consistent point of view.  not to mention being an extremely difficult philosophy to put into practice on a daily basis.
 
2013-02-19 11:43:09 AM  

LarryDan43: You can't execute retarded people? Hell you might as well give all of the red states a license to kill. Which is pretty much the NRA's mission come to think about it.


Nice job on hijacking the thread. I'm a bit disappointed you didn't wedge a reference to Bush or Reagan in though.

What exactly does the NRA have to do with this?
 
2013-02-19 11:43:15 AM  
So the pro-lifers are clearly OK with babies spawned by incest and rape.
 
2013-02-19 11:44:33 AM  
I'd give him two choices: Stay here and die, or go to the Wall and join the Night's Watch.
 
2013-02-19 11:44:59 AM  

Weaver95: And i'm telling you that every priest and rabbi i've ever spoken too in over 20 odd years has summed up the pro-life argument as 'all life is sacred'. period. its' that simple.


There's your disconnect.  Catholics and Jews make up a fairly small percentage of the Judeo-Christian makeup in this country.  The bulk of those arguing this point are neither Catholic nor Jew.  Talk to one of the tens of thousands of Baptist, Nazarene, Pentecostal, Methodist, etc., etc, that make up the bulk of U.S. Christians, and the primary movers behind the pro-life political movement.  Read their literature and talk to their leaders, particularly those that make up the Evangelical movement.  They will have very different views and reasoning.
 
2013-02-19 11:45:02 AM  
If mental retardation is no impediment to your ability to murder, it should be no impediment to your paying the ultimate price for it. After all, an abortion isn't the taking of a life, it is merely the excise of a mass of tissue. Well, the death penalty is simply abortion on a civic scale. I do concede the point that it should only be used in cases where the identity and guilt of the killer is beyond doubt. But, once you cross that threshold, the murderer should be looked at as no more than a larger mass of cells, having sacrificed their humanity for whatever reason was applicable to them.
 
2013-02-19 11:46:04 AM  
Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty. it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not. if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore. sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed. kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.


I think Locke would like a word with you.  Read up on his work on natural rights.
 
2013-02-19 11:46:09 AM  

CygnusDarius: I'd give him two choices: Stay here and die, or go to the Wall and join the Night's Watch.


I think I'd rather choose death.  living out my life on a giant refrigerator, dodging undead and never getting laid?  kill me now, it'd be clean death.
 
2013-02-19 11:46:16 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Too bad that's not in the Bible.


Correct.  Most of what they push isn't there, in word or principal.
 
2013-02-19 11:46:17 AM  
Well think of it this way, if they start executing retarded people now, they will eventually get around to executing all of Congress.
 
2013-02-19 11:46:19 AM  

HAMMERTOE: If mental retardation is no impediment to your ability to murder, it should be no impediment to your paying the ultimate price for it. After all, an abortion isn't the taking of a life, it is merely the excise of a mass of tissue. Well, the death penalty is simply abortion on a civic scale. I do concede the point that it should only be used in cases where the identity and guilt of the killer is beyond doubt. But, once you cross that threshold, the murderer should be looked at as no more than a larger mass of cells, having sacrificed their humanity for whatever reason was applicable to them.


And when we get it wrong? Then what?
 
2013-02-19 11:46:32 AM  
Conservatives -- especially religious ones -- don't apply logic to any of their beliefs.

Dagnabbit, they're against abortions because life is sacred, but they're for the death penalty because POTATO!!!

Now, you just try to take away their guns.
 
2013-02-19 11:46:37 AM  

Virtuoso80: I'd be more compelled by a stay on execution for someone with an exceptionally high IQ. Death row inmate with a 200 IQ? Don't waste it. Give him some reading material, and offer him parole if he can make a major contribution to science.


I have mixed feelings on capital punishment, I do however think the measure should be the humanity of the person and there viability of them to ever become part of a society again.  Not necessarily the seriousness of their crimes.

If a dog is violent and cannot be trained, it should be put down.  It should be similar with people but with a much higher threshhold and much more approaches of rehabilitation being exhausted.
 
2013-02-19 11:46:46 AM  
Meh, one less oxygen thief.
 
2013-02-19 11:46:52 AM  

Khellendros: Weaver95: And i'm telling you that every priest and rabbi i've ever spoken too in over 20 odd years has summed up the pro-life argument as 'all life is sacred'. period. its' that simple.

There's your disconnect.  Catholics and Jews make up a fairly small percentage of the Judeo-Christian makeup in this country.  The bulk of those arguing this point are neither Catholic nor Jew.  Talk to one of the tens of thousands of Baptist, Nazarene, Pentecostal, Methodist, etc., etc, that make up the bulk of U.S. Christians, and the primary movers behind the pro-life political movement.  Read their literature and talk to their leaders, particularly those that make up the Evangelical movement.  They will have very different views and reasoning.


yes, but they're f*cking heretics and should all be burned at the stake.
 
2013-02-19 11:47:44 AM  

Mr. Titanium: TheShavingofOccam123: Another mentally-ill person being greased by a state that doesn't care how poorly a citizen develops as long as he doesn't go around killing people.

Don't be mentally ill in Georgia (or Arizona) or you'll do hard time for being sick. Or the state will just murder you and call it justice.

Then Jesus said, "Leave the children alone, and don't try to keep them from coming to Me, because the kingdom of heaven is made up of people like this.*"

*"But don't help them get any quicker than they need to."

So if a mentally impaired individual is murdering people, do we turn him loose, or give him prison without hope for parole?  Doesn't "without hope of parole" sort of define cruel and unusual punishment?  We sure as anything can't help him develop mentally to the point he doesn't pose a continuing risk to society.  I am not being snarky, but I've never figured a good answer for this.


You're not being snarky. I agree, this is a hard thing to figure out. However, what I found interesting is that a lot of the articles about this case don't tell you what he's being put to death FOR?
 CNN... they actually took the time to tell you that he's on death row for first shooting his girlfriend to death, and then killing his cellmate.
Truth is, the guy killed another prisoner... with a nail studded piece of wood... and here's the key part... because he thought he didn't have anything to lose.

Think about that. All this "The poor guy only has a 70 iq" stuff. But he was able to conceptualize that what he was doing was wrong, but didn't care.

I'm sorry, but this guy is a danger to everyone, in or out of prison. What should be do? lock him in solitary for the rest of his life? Never let him interact with another human because he can't be trusted not to kill someone out of pure apathy of spirit?

I'm of the opinion there's really no choice here.
 
2013-02-19 11:48:03 AM  

Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.


Hey, it's not like they could turn the guy loose.  This is more merciful than keeping him in a cage until he dies.
 
2013-02-19 11:48:57 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: If you're mentally capable of realizing you're incapable of being executed, you're mentally capable of being executed.


That's quite a Catch.
 
2013-02-19 11:49:30 AM  
The guy kills somebody and gets sent to prison. While in prison he kills some else. fark him.
 
2013-02-19 11:49:57 AM  

Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.


false dichotomy is false
 
2013-02-19 11:50:48 AM  

Weaver95: Khellendros: Weaver95: And i'm telling you that every priest and rabbi i've ever spoken too in over 20 odd years has summed up the pro-life argument as 'all life is sacred'. period. its' that simple.

There's your disconnect.  Catholics and Jews make up a fairly small percentage of the Judeo-Christian makeup in this country.  The bulk of those arguing this point are neither Catholic nor Jew.  Talk to one of the tens of thousands of Baptist, Nazarene, Pentecostal, Methodist, etc., etc, that make up the bulk of U.S. Christians, and the primary movers behind the pro-life political movement.  Read their literature and talk to their leaders, particularly those that make up the Evangelical movement.  They will have very different views and reasoning.

yes, but they're f*cking heretics and should all be burned at the stake.


But they're the side you're arguing against.  They're the ones that hold that belief you think is inconsistent with their teachings.  It's not.  Your argument will not be accepted by The Other Side, because it misrepresents their position.  Your assertion falls on deaf ears because it's pretty meaningless to the bulk of the people you're leveling the accusation toward.
 
2013-02-19 11:51:58 AM  

sethen320: Why is being developmentally-challenged a valid excuse for murder? Whether you know what you are doing or not, I don't want you in general society if you have tendencies toward killing those around you. You are a danger to others, period.


Which is why they're in prison.
 
2013-02-19 11:52:16 AM  
The first question should be:  Did the person commit the crime?

If yes, then:  Does the person have a basic understanding of right and wrong... understanding that their actions were wrong?

If yes, warm up the chair.


(Actually, a firing squad is known as being quicker, cheaper, more humane and more appropriate for executions. )
 
GBB
2013-02-19 11:52:44 AM  

Weaver95: no, i'm telling you how the pro-lifers themselves define their own ideology.  all life is sacred.  ALL life is sacred.  they believe its wrong to take a life under any circumstances, be it abortion or via the death penalty.  this is their belief, and it's all inclusive.  it doesn't allow for the death penalty.


Well, there's the problem.  You are confusing the Pro-Life movements ideology with the vague term "pro life".  The term "pro life" is used in the abortion debate to differentiate between those that belive abortions are an abomination and those that are "pro choice" in that they believe the mother should be the only one who decides.  The Pro-Life movement believes all life is sacred like you said, they just have the unfortunate position of being equated with a generic term.

It would like saying that a Head-On accident involves someone that can't follow simple directions:
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

but it's not this:
blog.lehighvalleylive.com
 
2013-02-19 11:53:30 AM  
It's too bad we can't go back in time and execute the mother and grand-father.
 
2013-02-19 11:53:34 AM  

Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.


People who quote the bible as truth are simply saying "I've stopped thinking".  You can't apply logic to these people's rationale.
 
2013-02-19 11:54:06 AM  

DingleberryMoose: Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.

false dichotomy is false


Please explain how being pro life and pro death are not mutually exclusive.
 
2013-02-19 11:54:19 AM  
I should also be clear - 'valid' christian religions in this country are the catholic church, Lutherans, eastern orthodox church, Protestants and  Presbyterians.  that's it.  the rest are cults and heretics.  no exceptions.  if you call yourself a 'christian' and aren't a member of a main stream church then you are a heretic and fool.  plus you're probably being scammed out of your life savings.  in my view, 'evangelical' is code word for 'please bring back the holy inquisition and burn me at the stake'.  every time I see an 'evangelical' preaching, I imagine them screaming as they burn in holy fire.

*sigh*

I think I missed my true calling in life.  I wonder if the pagans could use an inquisitor?
 
2013-02-19 11:54:45 AM  

Weaver95: living out my life on a giant refrigerator, dodging undead and never getting laid?


Sounds like marriage.
 
2013-02-19 11:56:24 AM  

Khellendros: But they're the side you're arguing against.  They're the ones that hold that belief you think is inconsistent with their teachings.  It's not.  Your argument will not be accepted by The Other Side, because it misrepresents their position.  Your assertion falls on deaf ears because it's pretty meaningless to the bulk of the people you're leveling the accusation toward.


no, i'm telling you that pro-life means all life is sacred.  ALL life.  even murderers.  the evangelicals who try to say they're pro-life and pro-death penalty are liars, fools and heretics.  f*ck 'em because they're leading you down a false path.
 
2013-02-19 11:56:47 AM  

indarwinsshadow: Hmmm.

Last week farkers were up in arms because IQ tests weren't a real evaluation of intelligence.

This week, some of you are upset because IQ is now an accurate measure of intelligence.


i630.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-19 11:58:24 AM  
Regarding the man he killed in prison.

Our death penalty candidate killed his SLEEPING cellmate... with a nail studded piece of wood... and they think it's because he simply felt that he didn't have anything to lose because he was already in prison for murder.

So... I'm sorry, he clearly understood it was wrong... he simply didn't care.

The more I read on this the more I'm of the opinion that the anti death penalty folk need to choose their battles better. This is a hard one to justify granting him mercy.
 
2013-02-19 11:58:41 AM  
I don't get the headline, subby care to explain?
 
2013-02-19 11:59:43 AM  

sirgrim: sethen320: Why is being developmentally-challenged a valid excuse for murder? Whether you know what you are doing or not, I don't want you in general society if you have tendencies toward killing those around you. You are a danger to others, period.

Which is why they're in prison.


No, its a waste of resources to maintain an individual who is useless to the world. Also, keeping him in prison didn't really help either.
 
2013-02-19 12:00:09 PM  

The Onion is prophetic: Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.

I'm pro-choice, but sort of anti-death penalty.  Mostly because of the costs and the possibility of executing an innocent person.  I have no stance on the vengeance portion of it, because I've never been put in the situation of knowing a victim of murder.


One of the kids I grew up with - one of my closest friends - was murdered when I was 15.  It was rather shocking, because Eugene doesn't (didn't?) really have gang violence to the best of my knowledge.  The man that did it, Conan Wayne Hale, is on death row.

I still do not support the death penalty.  I will never support the death penalty.  Will I be happy when he dies?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  That's irrelevant; that's vengeance, not justice.  Justice would be having him pay for his crimes in a way that betters society, not damages it.

Legalized murder is not acceptable.  Period.

Weaver95: i'm sorry but...no.  if you are pro-life, then ALL LIFE IS SACRED.  period.  the premise of the pro-life ideology is that we don't get to pick and choose who gets to live or die, that's up to God.  ALL life is sacred, even the lives of bottom feeding scum sucking murderers locked in a cage.  if it's morally wrong to pick and choose which fetus gets born, then it's equally wrong to pick and choose which murdering bastard gets to die.  lock 'em up?  sure.  but you can't kill 'em and still be pro-life.

pro-life is all inclusive and absolutist.  you CANNOT pick and choose - you are either pro-life or not.  thems the rules.  it's also a very difficult philosophy to follow and I have a lot of respect for people who accept it's tenets and follow them....ALL of them.


DING DING DING, we have a winner.

 

Khellendros: I used to be one of them.  I marched on corners, and yelled at people entering abortion clinics.  I handed out the very literature you're talking about.  I had it farking memorized.  I know very well the arguments used, and how they apply to christian morality.  I escaped that life a long time ago.  And I can tell you this - if you're interested in making a point, you should address their argument as they see it, not as you would imagine it.  Their "every life is sacred" point specified innocent life, defined as children who have not yet had the ability or opportunity to hear the truth and commit their lives to christ.  And in the times those ideas were formed, it fit just fine with capital punishment.  It did so for centuries, and still does today.

"Every life is sacred" is not an all-encompassing statement.  They know it's not, and they don't argue that it is.


You're thinking of the PROTESTANT view on life.  The CATHOLIC stance on life is just as anti-death-penalty, or at least the one outlined by JPII was.  That's one reason why I support this new-found thought process of changing the language from pro-life and pro-choice to something else.  A consistent pro-life ethic encourages the sanctity of life at ALL stages.
 
2013-02-19 12:02:56 PM  

hinten: I don't get the headline, subby care to explain?


The murderer is a retard, hence the rest of the people in Georgia are dumber retards.
 
2013-02-19 12:03:05 PM  
Warren Hill grew up in rural Georgia with an IQ of 70.

This explains why Jimmy Carter is going to bat for him. He obviously is one of the few who voted fro JC to be re-elected.
 
2013-02-19 12:03:14 PM  

sethen320: No, its a waste of resources to maintain an individual who is useless to the world.


So we should execute everyone with profound developmental disabilities and those who become seriously disabled?
 
2013-02-19 12:03:20 PM  

Bell-fan: Regarding the man he killed in prison.

Our death penalty candidate killed his SLEEPING cellmate... with a nail studded piece of wood... and they think it's because he simply felt that he didn't have anything to lose because he was already in prison for murder.

So... I'm sorry, he clearly understood it was wrong... he simply didn't care.

The more I read on this the more I'm of the opinion that the anti death penalty folk need to choose their battles better. This is a hard one to justify granting him mercy.


The thing about mercy is that its usually not an easy thing to grant.
 
2013-02-19 12:03:32 PM  
I'm pro-death so I'm getting a kick outta this thread.
 
2013-02-19 12:04:56 PM  
thread is completely DERPED. I guess it's appropriate.
 
2013-02-19 12:06:28 PM  

Carn: DingleberryMoose: Weaver95: if you are pro-life, you must also be against the death penalty.  it's all inclusive - either all life is sacred or its not.  if you don't stand up and save the lives of murdering bastards then....you aren't pro-life anymore.  sorry folks but thems the rules.

if you're pro-choice, then you may proceed.  kill 'em dead and down a six pack for a job well done.

false dichotomy is false

Please explain how being pro life and pro death are not mutually exclusive.


First, the terms don't equate, but you know that.  Secondly, the more common pro-life belief is that everyone's life is his/her own and the end of that life can only be sanctioned by that person.  This sanctioning may come in many forms, one of which is committing a crime where the death penalty may be applied.

Being pro-life (generally) indicates that one thinks of a fetus as being a human person from some moment between conception and birth and believes that person should enjoy the same protection of the law that those of us who've already been born enjoy. That person's life should be protected until they do something that warrants lifting that protection, like violating the protection of another person.

In other words, you have the right to life until you forfeit that right through your own heinous actions.

Note that these are not necessarily what I believe, but I've lived around this mindset long enough to tell you it's not unreasoned by the people who hold it, and it's a deeply held set of beliefs.
 
2013-02-19 12:06:53 PM  

doubled99: thread is completely DERPED. I guess it's appropriate.


Haven't been through many Benghazi threads, have you? This is thread just has a light whipped DERP topping, by comparison.
 
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