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(Short List)   With Guitar Hero dead, Rock Band has now announced its last track. SingStar still going strong mind you. There is no god   (shortlist.com) divider line 77
    More: Sad, Guitar Hero, music library, Harmonix  
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3471 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Feb 2013 at 9:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-19 08:55:53 AM

Interesting. CSB time:

For the last 10 years, I've been running a program where I go to every 6th grade classroom in town and show them guitars and talk about rock music. As part of that, I used to ask every student to tell us what his or her favorite music is. From around 2006 to 2010 we would get blown away by the answers: "KISS, Guns 'N Roses, Led Zeppelin, Green Day, Ozzy, Metallica." At least half the class would have an answer like that (the rest country or hip-hop). But I noticed that in the last 4 years, only a small handful know any rock artists. We discovered it's in large due to the decline of Rock Band and Guitar Hero.

Similarly, I ran a lessons program at a guitar store, right around the same time, the number of kids coming in wanting to buy a guitar and take lessons plummeted. I remember the effect it had when those came on the scene - it seemed like every kid wanted to take guitar lessons (unfortunately many of them washed out quickly when they discovered it's really not like the game). There was a notable cultural awareness of rock guitar.

I also hosted a guitar hero competition in which over 200 kids showed up to participate. We tried to do it again a year later and got only two dozen, right around the same time Guitar Hero was pulled.

I think it showed that Rock Band and Guitar Hero propped up the industry longer than it should have been naturally.


By the way, what the hell is wrong with the comment window on the iPad? It's all sorts of farking up my formatting.

 
2013-02-19 09:27:31 AM
Rocksmith is where it's at any more. Who cares about button guitars?

cdn.arstechnica.net
 
2013-02-19 09:29:06 AM
Don't worry, we've got this covered.

blogs.houstonpress.com
 
2013-02-19 09:37:09 AM
I completely forgot about guitar hero.

1) buy guitar hero accessories
2) wait 15 years
3) profit selling guitar hero accessories to nostalgic 30 somethings
 
2013-02-19 09:38:05 AM

LesserEvil: Rocksmith is where it's at any more. Who cares about button guitars?

[cdn.arstechnica.net image 640x360]


Real live football is where it's at any more.  Who cares about Madden?
 
2013-02-19 09:39:29 AM
Dead or not, Rock Band remains super fun if you're with some friends and have had a few drinks.
 
2013-02-19 09:43:50 AM
Rock Band was seriously the way downloadable content should be done. Constant releases that don't take away from the main game, only add to it, DLC that was cross-compatible with previous and later versions of the game (at least until the addition of piano tracks in 3, but all previous DLC was still usable.) They've had a very good run of it, and with no new release on the table anytime soon, I don't blame them for finally stepping away. I have a seriously large library of Rock Band music on my 360, and still pull it out every once in a while at parties. 
Harmonix went to 11 for this series, and I look forward to what they do next.
 
2013-02-19 09:44:15 AM
Guitar Hero didn't suddenly become a bad idea.  It just got so oversaturated - too many expansions and sequels - that people just got burned out and sick of it.

Wait a few more years, and then release a goodGuitar Hero or Rock Band game, and I bet it would do pretty well.

If they released one very good game every five years (i.e. the Zelda business model), they'd do very well, instead they tried to release a ton of middling games in a very short timeframe, and that just killed it.

I hadn't played Guitar Hero in several years, but last weekend on a whim I picked up GH III, dusted off a guitar controller, and discovered that the game is still fun.
 
2013-02-19 09:47:58 AM
I will forever remember the drinking show my college roommate and I drinking put on during War Pigs whenever we hosted guitar hero nights.

The goal, drink as much as possible during the silent segments.  First to two beers wins.
 
2013-02-19 09:49:27 AM
Bah.  These toys are to real guitars what watching porn is, relative to the real deal.

/old picker

//with a lawn

///keep off
 
2013-02-19 09:50:19 AM

LesserEvil: Rocksmith is where it's at any more. Who cares about button guitars?


Agree. Pretty fun game, needs some UI improvements and I wouldn't say it will teach you guitar if you know nothing.

But if you're a self taught hobbyist guitar player (AKA: suck at guitar) like me, it's pretty fun.
 
2013-02-19 09:54:54 AM
I still bring our RB 2 everytime I have a party. It's still fun and people love it. My 9-year old nephew grew up with his mom and sister and they're both hip hop and pop listeners. It wasn't until he came over to my house to play Rock Band that he discovered Rock music. Now he sings Crazy Train around the house and always wants me to put the radio on "the station that plays the White Stripes".
 
2013-02-19 09:56:24 AM
It's probably one of the best group party games of all time.

Rock Band/Guitar Hero needs a fresh restart.

It also deserves a lot of credit for bringing rock music to a new generation of kids, and bringing back the fun of older songs again.  Who knew Eye of the Tiger could be so much fun to play on a plastic guitar?  But it is.
 
2013-02-19 10:01:03 AM
I've played guitar for nearly 19 years, and I long ago accepted that guitar was going to become a smaller, niche world of egotistical asshats, jealous because they'll never get anywhere with their "talent."

/Seriously, we guitarists are the boneheads of the musical world.
 
2013-02-19 10:10:32 AM
userserve-ak.last.fm: What's "a band"?
 
2013-02-19 10:12:24 AM

Doc Daneeka: Guitar Hero didn't suddenly become a bad idea.  It just got so oversaturated - too many expansions and sequels - that people just got burned out and sick of it.

Wait a few more years, and then release a goodGuitar Hero or Rock Band game, and I bet it would do pretty well.

If they released one very good game every five years (i.e. the Zelda business model), they'd do very well, instead they tried to release a ton of middling games in a very short timeframe, and that just killed it.


That was intentional on the part of Activision.  They didn't want to compete with Harmonix, so they flooded the market to kill it.
 
2013-02-19 10:13:45 AM

LesserEvil: Rocksmith is where it's at any more. Who cares about button guitars?

[cdn.arstechnica.net image 640x360]


People who don't want to spend a few hundred to thousand hours learning to play, just so they can jam to some old school rock music.
 
2013-02-19 10:17:15 AM

Born to Die: Don't worry, we've got this covered.

[blogs.houstonpress.com image 607x347]


Or this:

fubegra.net
 
2013-02-19 10:24:25 AM
For those saying "Rocksmith has real guitars! Why play the plastic button ones?" I have to point out that Rock Band 3 had a real guitar as well. The Fender Stratocaster, approximately a full year before Rocksmith. Clearly, they advertised/marketed it poorly, though, because all I ever see is comments like the ones I referenced above.

With that griping aside, I LOVED Rock Band and am sad to see it go. As a music-loving gamer, with a music-loving non-gamer wife, this was one of the few games we could play together and both genuinely have fun. The keyboard really drew my wife in, because she had her own that could be used. We'd have "Rock Band Night" every Monday or Friday, with friends over and everything. It was a blast, and the death of DLC isn't likely to stop us.

I've only got about 1000 songs (playing on PS3 meant very limited Rock Band Network selection), but I had nearly every disc available. That goes for Guitar Hero, too (approximately 400 songs, before they stopped DLC). Both had their places: Guitar Hero had better "stage shows" and characters and the higher difficulty made me "better", but Rock Band was easier and therefore more conducive to a party atmosphere, as well as having a more eclectic mix of music, to appeal to more people.

My biggest regret is all the songs I wanted in these games that I will probably never see. There wasn't much market for 90's alt rock as it was. Push it out a few years (assuming a new game comes along in those few years) and there will be even less market. But for while it lasted, these rhythm games were the perfect thing for a guy that loved music, and wanted desperately to have a hand in making it, but lacked the manual dexterity. I hope the pendulum swings back again soon...
 
2013-02-19 10:34:49 AM

js34603: LesserEvil: Rocksmith is where it's at any more. Who cares about button guitars?

Agree. Pretty fun game, needs some UI improvements and I wouldn't say it will teach you guitar if you know nothing.

But if you're a self taught hobbyist guitar player (AKA: suck at guitar) like me, it's pretty fun.


I play it on my bass and I can see it being a little bit of a mess on guitar - and it was definitely make for a console (play on my PC).  But as a pro, it really encourages you to play more and to play a bit more varied music (I'd really like some jazz & classic blues on there, but oh well).

I really like that the USB-1/4" adapter lets you record right to a program like Audacity, and I do know you can get adapters elsewhere, but it's a nice feature.
 
2013-02-19 10:38:15 AM
Rock Band was leaps and bounds above Guitar Hero.  The biggest advantage was that when a new Rock Band came out, you could rip the songs from the previous release and keep playing (almost) all of them.  That didn't happen with Guitar Hero.  Not to mention, Guitar Hero seemed to focus more on making the patterns as difficult as possible just for the hell of it, instead of trying to fit the feel of the song like Rock Band.

Even if there's no new DLC for Rock Band, there's already a ton of it out there.  More than enough to keep any party going for a while.  Drumming with Rock Band is still awesome as well.
 
2013-02-19 10:40:51 AM

Incremancer: For those saying "Rocksmith has real guitars! Why play the plastic button ones?" I have to point out that Rock Band 3 had a real guitar as well. The Fender Stratocaster, approximately a full year before Rocksmith. Clearly, they advertised/marketed it poorly, though, because all I ever see is comments like the ones I referenced above.


The difference is that a) Rocksmith will work with any electric guitar, and b) the Fender for RB3 only detects which frets are being pressed, not the sound being played, so you can't do things like bends, harmonics (irony!), etc.

/Although unlikely, I do hope Ubisoft makes Rocksmith 2, this time with a decent UI. The current one sucks big time.
 
2013-02-19 10:41:03 AM
Now that it's all kind of dead I'm going to try and find Guitar Hero Metallica, I wanted it, but didn't want to pay that much for it.

I still enjoy the game, my last birthday was hosted along with my sister's b/f.  He has a stage in his house with a flat screen facing it, so we had 30 people playing Rock Band throughout the night, it was pretty badass.
 
2013-02-19 10:41:45 AM

PanicMan: That was intentional on the part of Activision.  They didn't want to compete with Harmonix, so they flooded the market to kill it.


I don't really buy that conspiracy theory.  Harmonix was just as guilty of flooding the market.

In a span of just three years (2007-2010), they released: Rock Band, Rock Band 2, Rock Band 3, The Beatles: Rock Band, Green Day: Rock Band, Rock Band Unplugged, Rock Band Mobile, Rock Band for iOS, Rock Band Reloaded, plus at least a half-dozen "Track Pack" discs.  And all of that is not even counting DLC.
 
2013-02-19 10:46:41 AM

MooseMuffin: Dead or not, Rock Band remains super fun if you're with some friends and have had a few drinks.


This. Best drinking game ever.
 
2013-02-19 10:47:03 AM
The best thing about those games was the separated instrument tracks people would rip. I love hearing that kind of stuff.

"So THAT'S how it's played!"
 
2013-02-19 10:51:33 AM
img.photobucket.com

Comes with a custom Fleshlight in the color of your choice
 
2013-02-19 11:03:41 AM

NeoCortex42: Rock Band was leaps and bounds above Guitar Hero.  The biggest advantage was that when a new Rock Band came out, you could rip the songs from the previous release and keep playing (almost) all of them.  That didn't happen with Guitar Hero.  Not to mention, Guitar Hero seemed to focus more on making the patterns as difficult as possible just for the hell of it, instead of trying to fit the feel of the song like Rock Band.

Even if there's no new DLC for Rock Band, there's already a ton of it out there.  More than enough to keep any party going for a while.  Drumming with Rock Band is still awesome as well.


Having not played the last few iterations (I think I ended around Guitar Hero 3 and Rock Band 2,) I did think that Guitar Hero's guitar parts were more fun.  Rock Band's, on expert, were either way too easy or way too hard, or way too easy with a way too hard stretch.  Guitar Hero did a better job making songs varied and hard without going too far, although that probably meant straying from the actual song a little more.
 
2013-02-19 11:03:44 AM
I was intensely proud of myself for 5-starring "21st Century Schizoid Man" during the end credits of Guitar Hero 5.

Otherwise, I suck at these games and I love them so much.

//But Green Day Rock Band just so I could play "Dookie" over and over and over again.
 
2013-02-19 11:13:20 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: /Although unlikely, I do hope Ubisoft makes Rocksmith 2, this time with a decent UI. The current one sucks big time.


Yeah.  Take away lives on the rift repeater, make the interface more streamlined (I hate scrolling to find a song, just make it a damn list like Rock Band, not to mention I keep getting booted back to "career mode" when I want to change songs).
 
2013-02-19 11:21:53 AM
Rock Band is way more fun than a dumb game should be.  My kids love it.  I love it.   It's great.

Sad to see it go.
 
2013-02-19 11:28:28 AM

Antimatter: People who don't want to spend a few hundred to thousand hours learning to play, just so they can jam to some old school rock music.


I can teach you the main riff to "Sanitarium" in about 2 minutes.  The main riff for "Nothing Else Matters" is all open strings, so that's about 30 seconds.
 
2013-02-19 11:29:27 AM

Doc Daneeka: PanicMan: That was intentional on the part of Activision.  They didn't want to compete with Harmonix, so they flooded the market to kill it.

I don't really buy that conspiracy theory.  Harmonix was just as guilty of flooding the market.

In a span of just three years (2007-2010), they released: Rock Band, Rock Band 2, Rock Band 3, The Beatles: Rock Band, Green Day: Rock Band, Rock Band Unplugged, Rock Band Mobile, Rock Band for iOS, Rock Band Reloaded, plus at least a half-dozen "Track Pack" discs.  And all of that is not even counting DLC.


Half of those are just track packs, which is just DLC for people without internet, meant to supplement the base game. another third are mobile versions of the game. There were only 3 main games, and then Beatles/GD/etc for band-centric stuff (Beatles was completely standalone).  Meanwhile Activision pumped out a bunch of wholly-separate games, often with no export ability.

I won't deny that RB made a lot of games, but GH was the one that literally pumped out virtually the same game twice a year on the same platforms.
 
2013-02-19 11:34:18 AM

Girl Pants: Doc Daneeka: PanicMan: That was intentional on the part of Activision.  They didn't want to compete with Harmonix, so they flooded the market to kill it.

I don't really buy that conspiracy theory.  Harmonix was just as guilty of flooding the market.

In a span of just three years (2007-2010), they released: Rock Band, Rock Band 2, Rock Band 3, The Beatles: Rock Band, Green Day: Rock Band, Rock Band Unplugged, Rock Band Mobile, Rock Band for iOS, Rock Band Reloaded, plus at least a half-dozen "Track Pack" discs.  And all of that is not even counting DLC.

Half of those are just track packs, which is just DLC for people without internet, meant to supplement the base game. another third are mobile versions of the game. There were only 3 main games, and then Beatles/GD/etc for band-centric stuff (Beatles was completely standalone).  Meanwhile Activision pumped out a bunch of wholly-separate games, often with no export ability.

I won't deny that RB made a lot of games, but GH was the one that literally pumped out virtually the same game twice a year on the same platforms.


I loved the fact that I could just leave Rock Band 3 in the system and play whatever on-disc or DLC song I wanted from any game in the series (except Beatles).
 
2013-02-19 11:35:52 AM
Rock Band gave me a simulation of what playing for tens of thousands of fans at a gigantic venue would be like. I'll never get to actually experience that in real life. And my kids and I had a lot of fun playing it over the years.
 
2013-02-19 11:41:20 AM

PanicMan: Antimatter: People who don't want to spend a few hundred to thousand hours learning to play, just so they can jam to some old school rock music.

I can teach you the main riff to "Sanitarium" in about 2 minutes.  The main riff for "Nothing Else Matters" is all open strings, so that's about 30 seconds.


Right, because knowing the main riff is the same as being able to play like Hendrix.

Learning an instrument, and playing it like the greats, it not an easy task at all.  That's why rock band / guitar hero was so popular.  It was like air guitar with a tangible benefit.
 
2013-02-19 11:44:14 AM

Lando Lincoln: Rock Band gave me a simulation of what playing for tens of thousands of fans at a gigantic venue would be like. I'll never get to actually experience that in real life. And my kids and I had a lot of fun playing it over the years.


Were you one of the dozen people who purchased this:
i.ytimg.com
 
2013-02-19 11:45:44 AM
I could never get into music games - this goes back to Amplitude. One reason I'd that - yes - I suck at them. Another is that I'm the type who'd rather actually learn to play three instruments.

Oh well, to each their own.
 
2013-02-19 11:53:31 AM

NeoCortex42: Girl Pants: Doc Daneeka: PanicMan: That was intentional on the part of Activision.  They didn't want to compete with Harmonix, so they flooded the market to kill it.

I don't really buy that conspiracy theory.  Harmonix was just as guilty of flooding the market.

In a span of just three years (2007-2010), they released: Rock Band, Rock Band 2, Rock Band 3, The Beatles: Rock Band, Green Day: Rock Band, Rock Band Unplugged, Rock Band Mobile, Rock Band for iOS, Rock Band Reloaded, plus at least a half-dozen "Track Pack" discs.  And all of that is not even counting DLC.

Half of those are just track packs, which is just DLC for people without internet, meant to supplement the base game. another third are mobile versions of the game. There were only 3 main games, and then Beatles/GD/etc for band-centric stuff (Beatles was completely standalone).  Meanwhile Activision pumped out a bunch of wholly-separate games, often with no export ability.

I won't deny that RB made a lot of games, but GH was the one that literally pumped out virtually the same game twice a year on the same platforms.

I loved the fact that I could just leave Rock Band 3 in the system and play whatever on-disc or DLC song I wanted from any game in the series (except Beatles).


That is great. I think I enjoyed Rock Band Blitz supporting all the DLC too. I never would have got the game if not for the free export of its songs to RB3 and vice versa. Glad I did, because I really enjoy RBB.
 
2013-02-19 12:02:26 PM

Antimatter: PanicMan: Antimatter: People who don't want to spend a few hundred to thousand hours learning to play, just so they can jam to some old school rock music.

I can teach you the main riff to "Sanitarium" in about 2 minutes.  The main riff for "Nothing Else Matters" is all open strings, so that's about 30 seconds.

Right, because knowing the main riff is the same as being able to play like Hendrix.

Learning an instrument, and playing it like the greats, it not an easy task at all.  That's why rock band / guitar hero was so popular.  It was like air guitar with a tangible benefit.


My point was you don't need to spend hundreds of hours to have fun playing guitar.  Plenty of guitar songs are just 3 or 4 chords repeated over and over.  Even some of the best songs written by the greats.
 
2013-02-19 12:11:05 PM

NeoCortex42: Rock Band was leaps and bounds above Guitar Hero.  The biggest advantage was that when a new Rock Band came out, you could rip the songs from the previous release and keep playing (almost) all of them.  That didn't happen with Guitar Hero.  Not to mention, Guitar Hero seemed to focus more on making the patterns as difficult as possible just for the hell of it, instead of trying to fit the feel of the song like Rock Band.

Even if there's no new DLC for Rock Band, there's already a ton of it out there.  More than enough to keep any party going for a while.  Drumming with Rock Band is still awesome as well.


Rock Band audio quality was also much, much better.  I once had almost every RB and GH game and almost all the accessories for RB (keyboard, pro gutar, regular drums, mike).  I thought it was fun but I was getting burned out on spending so much money on DLC and accessories.
 
2013-02-19 12:15:06 PM

Lord Binky: I could never get into music games - this goes back to Amplitude. One reason I'd that - yes - I suck at them. Another is that I'm the type who'd rather actually learn to play three instruments.

Oh well, to each their own.


To be fair, Amplitude was awful. Everything about it was a major step down from Frequency from how the game played to the track selection.

I can not even count how many hours I dumped in to frequency. Great game and great track selection still to this day.
 
2013-02-19 12:24:33 PM

Girl Pants: Doc Daneeka: PanicMan: That was intentional on the part of Activision.  They didn't want to compete with Harmonix, so they flooded the market to kill it.

I don't really buy that conspiracy theory.  Harmonix was just as guilty of flooding the market.

In a span of just three years (2007-2010), they released: Rock Band, Rock Band 2, Rock Band 3, The Beatles: Rock Band, Green Day: Rock Band, Rock Band Unplugged, Rock Band Mobile, Rock Band for iOS, Rock Band Reloaded, plus at least a half-dozen "Track Pack" discs.  And all of that is not even counting DLC.

Half of those are just track packs, which is just DLC for people without internet, meant to supplement the base game. another third are mobile versions of the game. There were only 3 main games, and then Beatles/GD/etc for band-centric stuff (Beatles was completely standalone).  Meanwhile Activision pumped out a bunch of wholly-separate games, often with no export ability.

I won't deny that RB made a lot of games, but GH was the one that literally pumped out virtually the same game twice a year on the same platforms.


I forgot about Lego: Rock Band.  That was another standalone game.

Anyway, you can't accuse Activision of flooding the market with games unless you level the same charge at Harmonix.  They both did it.
 
2013-02-19 12:26:49 PM
now, pick up a real guitar and play a song...
you can't, it is just a toy button guitar you have wasted time on...
pick up a real guitar, plug into Rocksmith and learn to play music.
 
2013-02-19 12:30:01 PM

Doc Daneeka: I forgot about Lego: Rock Band.  That was another standalone game.


It wasn't completely standalone.  You could still rip the entirety of the track list to the hard drive and play it in a main Rock Band game.  I think it could also use a lot of DLC content (as long as it wasn't labeled as mature).
 
2013-02-19 12:31:37 PM
Oblig:
imgs.xkcd.com

and

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-02-19 12:49:49 PM

PanicMan: Antimatter: PanicMan: Antimatter: People who don't want to spend a few hundred to thousand hours learning to play, just so they can jam to some old school rock music.

I can teach you the main riff to "Sanitarium" in about 2 minutes.  The main riff for "Nothing Else Matters" is all open strings, so that's about 30 seconds.

Right, because knowing the main riff is the same as being able to play like Hendrix.

Learning an instrument, and playing it like the greats, it not an easy task at all.  That's why rock band / guitar hero was so popular.  It was like air guitar with a tangible benefit.

My point was you don't need to spend hundreds of hours to have fun playing guitar.  Plenty of guitar songs are just 3 or 4 chords repeated over and over.  Even some of the best songs written by the greats.


And even knowing those four chords will do jack unless you've practiced the proper timing, nuance and smooth chord transitions.  There's a difference between knowing the intro to every pop band hit and actually being able to play anything meaningful.
 
2013-02-19 01:07:14 PM

NeoCortex42: Oblig:
[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x571]


Oh, so basically Prince.
 
2013-02-19 01:21:44 PM
What I learned from this thread is that playing real instruments is so incredibly difficult that it's not even worth trying because you need to practice.

Thanks for the heads up.
 
2013-02-19 01:47:15 PM

SoupJohnB: Bah.  These toys are to real guitars what watching porn is, relative to the real deal.

/old picker

//with a lawn

///keep off


Yet both are fun.
 
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