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(Journal News)   Feds to Hasidic schools, 1998: Here, have some technology money. Hasidim: Feh. Computers are immoral. Feds, 1999-2013: Here, have some more technology money   (lohud.com) divider line 29
    More: Asinine, New Square, funds, Arthur Ashe Stadium, single-sex education, Jewish day school, telecommunications service, The Jewish Week, preconditions  
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790 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Feb 2013 at 7:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-19 07:39:26 AM
Do you mean to tell me a religious organization is grifting for free taxpayer money? Religious people are good because of god and stuff.
 
2013-02-19 07:43:41 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Do you mean to tell me a religious organization is grifting for free taxpayer money?


Hasidic Jews are notorious for living off of government assistance. What else do you think the high schoolers are being prepared for when they don't even have access to computers at school? They'll just move onto welfare so they can spend their time studying theology.
 
2013-02-19 07:46:20 AM
Ah, New Square. Because the 1800s in Poland were freaking AWESOME, so they never left.
 
2013-02-19 07:46:45 AM
Make the bastards pay it back.
 
2013-02-19 07:57:25 AM

Dr Dreidel: Ah, New Square. Because the 1800s in Poland were freaking AWESOME, so they never left.


Hey. SOME PEOPLE REMEMBER WHEN POLAND HAD POWER. I mean, that was like for 50 years somewhere in the 1100s but still
 
2013-02-19 07:57:57 AM
Calling Tatsuma to the thread please, we have some indefensible Ultra Orthodox Jewish behavior that needs defending! Please use the internet while defending that behavior too, because that would be hilarious for this thread!

i192.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-19 08:01:28 AM
Everything I hear from these guys reaks of scumbaggery (New Square Hasidics).
 
2013-02-19 08:03:51 AM
Where was the oversight?

There wasn't any because this is a straight-up vote-buying program. Hasidic enclaves vote en bloc even more than black voters, but the Hasids vote for whichever candidate they're told to vote for - the Skverers in New Square voted McCain 1270-44 in '08, 1567-16 for Bush in '04 (but 1547-13 for Schumer at the same time), Gore 1375-23 in 2000, Clinton over Dole 1110-31 in '96, Bush over Clinton/Perot 822-93-? in '92.

Federal oversight is a contradiction in terms. If a defense or health-care contractor draws enough water in the right districts, the oversight won't happen until it's long past the time for getting the money back to be feasible.

You think Al Sharpton's a grifter? He's got nothing on Grand Rabbi David Twersky.
 
2013-02-19 08:05:32 AM

keylock71: Make the bastards pay it back.


Lotsa luck. That money's gone. Blood, turnip, etc.
 
2013-02-19 08:13:13 AM
No access to computers? It's almost as if they understand the phrase "The internet is where religions go to die"
 
2013-02-19 08:15:06 AM

Gulper Eel: keylock71: Make the bastards pay it back.

Lotsa luck. That money's gone. Blood, turnip, etc.


I assume the groups given the money have land and other property?

If I misuse federal funds to the tune of 3.3 million, you can be quite certain the government is going to come after me via the courts and try to put me in jail and/or seize my property.

I don't see why this should be any different.

Yeah, it won't be easy, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
 
2013-02-19 08:15:41 AM

Gulper Eel: There wasn't any because this is a straight-up vote-buying program. Hasidic enclaves vote en bloc even more than black voters, but the Hasids vote for whichever candidate they're told to vote for - the Skverers in New Square voted McCain 1270-44 in '08, 1567-16 for Bush in '04 (but 1547-13 for Schumer at the same time), Gore 1375-23 in 2000, Clinton over Dole 1110-31 in '96, Bush over Clinton/Perot 822-93-? in '92.


E-Rate is open to any school, don't seehow it is  vote buying program forHasids.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Rate
 
2013-02-19 08:16:41 AM

randomjsa: No access to computers? It's almost as if they understand the phrase "The internet is where religions go to die"


They had a large meeting in Citi Field of Haredi and Hasidic Orthodox Jews pushing out that exact mantra.
 
2013-02-19 08:18:27 AM

Gulper Eel: If a defense or health-care contractor draws enough water in the right districts, the oversight won't happen until it's long past the time for getting the money back to be feasible.


13-1600 votes is "drawing enough water"? Granted, I'm not well-read on New Square's district politics (so it could be that there are only 2000 voters in the district), but it seems that that's almost enough to slightly budge the needle. Specifically about Sen Schumer, whose election was state-wide, 1600 votes from New Square isn't even a rounding error.

There may be a bleed effect, where actions that don't help Nusqvers are seen by the rest of Jews as anti-Semitic (or whatever), but New Square doesn't have the clout financially or demographically to make anything happen.

This is run-of-the-mill federal-program grifting. There is a thread of philosophy running through the community that they're "owed" a livelihood because they act as spiritual bulwark against a sinful culture, but taking TANF is a much different ball of wax than applying for tech grants you know you'll never use. They should be made to pay them back, even at the cost of selling the schools. Maybe a crop of Hasidic kids may actually learn something from a year in public school.

// knows many ex-Hasidic people who had to learn 4 years of HS in their first month of college
// calling them "schools" is an insult to schooling
// they know the Socratic method and theology, but that's about it
 
2013-02-19 08:37:06 AM

keylock71: I assume the groups given the money have land and other property?

If I misuse federal funds to the tune of 3.3 million, you can be quite certain the government is going to come after me via the courts and try to put me in jail and/or seize my property.

I don't see why this should be any different.

Yeah, it won't be easy, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.


Won't be easy? That's an understatement. Twersky is the community's god-king. The visuals of the authorities attempting to haul him in over the objections of several thousand townsfolk (not to mention the thousands more who'd come up from Brooklyn) would be quite something.

Dr Dreidel: 13-1600 votes is "drawing enough water"?


Double it, because the votes can be swung from one side to the other with the right promise from the right politician. It wouldn't be enough to bump a statewide race, but it's plenty to make the difference in a county or state legislative race. Down in the city we're talking another 100,000+ votes easily.

It's been enough that Twersky's gotten personal audiences with Gore and Hillary, got a White House audience in 2000, and it's standard practice for the state and local weasels to kiss his ring.

Not a lot of NY politicians stand up to the Hasidim. The last five governors have rolled over for them. Theocracy is okay if the theocrats can be bought.
 
2013-02-19 08:48:03 AM

liam76: E-Rate is open to any school, don't seehow it is vote buying program forHasids.


I should have been clearer. The program itself isn't necessarily the vote-buying part - the lack of oversight is. To screw up once and hand technology funding to a group of luddite theocrats would maybe be understandable - having handed over the money for 15 years running is NOT understandable.

The rest of the program should also be audited to see what other funny business might have been happening.
 
2013-02-19 08:57:10 AM

Gulper Eel: liam76: E-Rate is open to any school, don't seehow it is vote buying program forHasids.

I should have been clearer. The program itself isn't necessarily the vote-buying part - the lack of oversight is. To screw up once and hand technology funding to a group of luddite theocrats would maybe be understandable - having handed over the money for 15 years running is NOT understandable.


Once again, this program is availaible to everyone, not vote buying unless you know something special about hwo they are monitored.

Gulper Eel: The rest of the program should also be audited to see what other funny business might have been happening


And any program this community benefits from.
 
2013-02-19 09:17:56 AM

liam76: Once again, this program is availaible to everyone, not vote buying unless you know something special about hwo they are monitored.


TFA would indicate that the 'something special' is that it's NOT monitored. How else does a government agency miss something so obvious for 15 years? Either they're incompetent (in which case they should be shiatcanned), or they're looking the other way for political reasons (in which case they should be shiatcanned and prosecuted along with the higher-ups giving the orders).

It raises a dual question: is it not monitored in all the other districts that get the money, or is this strictly a New Square thing?

liam76: And any program this community benefits from.


THIS.
 
2013-02-19 09:26:50 AM

Gulper Eel: It's been enough that Twersky's gotten personal audiences with Gore and Hillary, got a White House audience in 2000, and it's standard practice for the state and local weasels to kiss his ring.


It's not because they want the 1500-2000 votes in New Square. There are plenty of Jews who take Twersky very seriously as an authority figure. He sells a lot of books to a lot people (people with money, which Nusqvers do not generally have) outside NY. Sure, he and his town can swing a local race - but since they live there, it's their race to swing.

Gulper Eel: It raises a dual question: is it not monitored in all the other districts that get the money, or is this strictly a New Square thing?


[winrar-is-you.jpg]

It's weird that recipients of these grants don't have to show anything for it, but "never explain by malice something that can be explained by stupidity/negligence" and all that.
 
2013-02-19 09:26:52 AM

Gulper Eel: liam76: Once again, this program is availaible to everyone, not vote buying unless you know something special about hwo they are monitored.

TFA would indicate that the 'something special' is that it's NOT monitored. How else does a government agency miss something so obvious for 15 years? Either they're incompetent (in which case they should be shiatcanned), or they're looking the other way for political reasons (in which case they should be shiatcanned and prosecuted along with the higher-ups giving the orders).

It raises a dual question: is it not monitored in all the other districts that get the money, or is this strictly a New Square thing?


I was going off the assumption there is little or no monitoring everywhere.
If that isn't the case this is more than a story of local curruption.
 
2013-02-19 11:25:14 AM
I went to a wedding once that was attended by, among others, a Chasidim in full garb and a Marine in full formal garb (not sure what the proper name for that uniform is). They absolutely positively hit it off and spent the entire reception chatting, but from anywhere else it looked like the set up to a joke.
 
2013-02-19 03:21:20 PM
So

What was the money spent on? Because I'm seeing phone lines, cellphones (probably for admins/teachers for work purposes), and some internet connections (probably required for xyz reasons).

I'm not defending waste, but I want to know what this money was wasted ON.
 
2013-02-19 08:57:46 PM

Gulper Eel: Federal oversight is a contradiction in terms. If a defense or health-care contractor draws enough water in the right districts, the oversight won't happen until it's long past the time for getting the money back to be feasible.


As a federal contractor this has not been my experience at all. Our federal oversight is present, competent, and strict. And yes, I'm in healthcare (HHS).

Maybe I need to snag one of those DoD contracts to get your claimed grifting done, because HHS has been exemplary.
 
2013-02-19 09:02:53 PM
Good job on the headline Subby. Chuckling even as I write this.
 
2013-02-20 05:11:30 AM
To use the word: Feh, don't get me started on frummers and technology.  "Kosher phones" are one of my pet peeves.  So you don't want your phone to be able to go on the internet?  Don't buy a bloody smartphone.  The ultra-orthodox will do whatever they're told, and will do so happily because they won't educate themselves through "immoral" sources.  The amount of times that I've come across a frum that's convinced that the US republican party is the only one that will look out for their best interests; it's like walking into a gay pride parade and seeing them all with "Vote for Bush" signs.
 
2013-02-20 07:15:45 AM

OniExpress: To use the word: Feh, don't get me started on frummers and technology.  "Kosher phones" are one of my pet peeves.  So you don't want your phone to be able to go on the internet?  Don't buy a bloody smartphone.  The ultra-orthodox will do whatever they're told, and will do so happily because they won't educate themselves through "immoral" sources.  The amount of times that I've come across a frum that's convinced that the US republican party is the only one that will look out for their best interests; it's like walking into a gay pride parade and seeing them all with "Vote for Bush" signs.


Frum libertarian here.
Everything, including kosher phones is up for argument. We are also not ultra-anything. Call us haredi. Have a nice day.

And to those who think using welfare when its offered is graft, don't be stupid. In fact, read Von Neumanns The Theory of Games so you'll be less stupid. If its being offered, you're not too bright if you don't take it.

/Spent many a shabbat in New Square
//Worked for a New Square chassid for a few years
///Used to visit sick people at the hospital with them, in fact.
 
2013-02-20 11:50:58 AM
Diogenes The Cynic:Frum libertarian here.

Um, mazeltov?

Everything, including kosher phones is up for argument.

Of course; put four jews from four different parts of London and you'll get four people argueing about something that they each know they are definitely correct about.  With a mixed-heritage wedding coming up in the family, as well as passover around the corner, ooooooohhhh don't I know about jew-on-jew arguments.

Fact remains:  kosher phones are basically idiocy.  Paranoia/harada.  A scam.  Fakakta.  Anyone who feels the need to use one can go right ahead, and I will continue to find them silly.

We are also not ultra-anything. Call us haredi. Have a nice day.

"Haredi or Charedi/Chareidi Judaism (pl. Haredim), is the most conservative form of Orthodox Judaism, often referred to by outsiders as ultra-Orthodox."

Don't take offense to being called ultra-orthodox, if that's the peg you want to be.  Personally speaking, I only really have a beef with the Hasidic who think they are the "core traditional jew", when you're really talking about a cultural phenomenon that came about ~250 years ago.  Anywho, in general english-speaking context you can use "frum" or "ultra-conservative" and people will know what the fark you're talking about.  You know what I intend to mean, I know it, and the people off to the side know it.  Gotta use words if you're going to say anything.

And to those who think using welfare when its offered is graft, don't be stupid. In fact, read Von Neumanns The Theory of Games so you'll be less stupid. If its being offered, you're not too bright if you don't take it.

It's not really the fact that it's taken that I think people get flustered over, but more the fact that there is an implied social contract in western civilization that you are to do your best to not need this offering (such as welfare, food stamps, the dole, etc), because it is not insomuch a gift as it is a lifeline.  It's a loaf of bread handed to a beggar, not a candy handed to a child.
 
2013-02-20 04:14:44 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: Calling Tatsuma to the thread please, we have some indefensible Ultra Orthodox Jewish behavior that needs defending! Please use the internet while defending that behavior too, because that would be hilarious for this thread!

[i192.photobucket.com image 225x314]


Even the Israelis are starting to hate the Ultra Orthodox because they get too many special privileges (no military service, welfare, etc). They've mistreated the Ethiopian Jews (forcing them to remarry their spouses because they didn't do it "right" the first time) and dictate policy for Jewish sites without input from other sects.

Failedmessiah.com is an awesome site.

/Going to be interesting
 
2013-02-21 12:28:30 AM

shortymac: DarkSoulNoHope: Calling Tatsuma to the thread please, we have some indefensible Ultra Orthodox Jewish behavior that needs defending! Please use the internet while defending that behavior too, because that would be hilarious for this thread!

[i192.photobucket.com image 225x314]

Even the Israelis are starting to hate the Ultra Orthodox because they get too many special privileges (no military service, welfare, etc). They've mistreated the Ethiopian Jews (forcing them to remarry their spouses because they didn't do it "right" the first time) and dictate policy for Jewish sites without input from other sects.

Failedmessiah.com is an awesome site.

/Going to be interesting


Plus they're reversing conversions by the earful because some Orthodox Rabbi got defrocked in some manner that is unspecified (though strangely not the conversions from the Eternal Jewish Family, which were run by a sexually crazed fraudster), even if the convert is more devoutly Frum than most of the other Jews surrounding him or her in the Jewish community (which means the "reversal" [which has no scholarly precedence, every Jew is a Jew for life after conversion], occurs for reasons not related to the convert's behavior). It's getting nuts.
 
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