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(The Comics Chronicles)   Comic book sales at highest point they've been since the mid 90's. Time to break out the chrome foil gatefold covers and clone EVERYTHING   (blog.comichron.com) divider line 83
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1227 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Feb 2013 at 8:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-19 04:27:51 PM

ZeroCorpse: urnotallrightspider: Used to be comic collector here,
Would someone mind telling me how the non-Ultimate Spiderman died and around when he died? Thanks.

First of all, he didn't die.

In issue #700 of Amazing Spider-Man, Otto Octavius' mind, in the body (and brain) of Peter Parker, defeated the dying Doctor Octopus with Peter Parker's mind. The swap was done several issues earlier. At the end of issue #700, Otto, piloting Peter's body, also gained Peter's memories and heroic morals. He became the new Spider-Man for real.

However, Peter is still present in Otto's subconscious, as evidenced in Superior Spider-Man.

So to break it down for you: Peter Parker didn't die. Peter Parker's body didn't die. Peter Parker's brain didn't die. Peter Parker's mind didn't even die.

The best guess: A copy of Parker's memories and personality were temporarily in the dying body of Doc Ock, and possibly even there until death. But Peter Parker is still Peter Parker. His consciousness is still in his own body-- He's just being controlled by Otto's dominant mind.

So Spider-Man didn't die. Doc Ock died, but found a way to put off the death of his consciousness by essentially possessing Parker. Ock thinks Parker's dead, but he's also finding that he's acting out of character a lot. This is when Parker's mind exerts control.

It's kind of messy, but the end result will be that eventually Parker will gain full control of his brain and body again, and Otto will somehow be forced out, killed off, or transplanted. At least, that's the current guess.

If you want to collect the HOW portion of the brain "swap", you'd need to get the preceding dozen issues or so. Ock did the whole thing remotely, from his deathbed, using octobots. Parker never knew it until it was too late.

So, I'd say pick up Amazing Spider-Man issues 690 - 700 if you want the whole story.

But rest assured. Spider-Man isn't dead. Peter Parker is still swinging around Manhattan as Spider-Man. It's just that he's sharing the b ...


The "Thanks. That's kinda creepy" comment belonged here.

Sorry.
 
2013-02-19 04:57:30 PM
So the "quarter boxes" of tomorrow are going to be well-stocked in a  couple of years.

Reminds me of the early 80's where everyone (and I mean EEEEVVVRRRYYYYOOONNNNE) was trying to make their own "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" magic happen.

img.newkadia.com
 
2013-02-19 05:54:58 PM

Hebalo: ZeroCorpse: urnotallrightspider: Used to be comic collector here,
Would someone mind telling me how the non-Ultimate Spiderman died and around when he died? Thanks.

First of all, he didn't die.

In issue #700 of Amazing Spider-Man, Otto Octavius' mind, in the body (and brain) of Peter Parker, defeated the dying Doctor Octopus with Peter Parker's mind. The swap was done several issues earlier. At the end of issue #700, Otto, piloting Peter's body, also gained Peter's memories and heroic morals. He became the new Spider-Man for real.

However, Peter is still present in Otto's subconscious, as evidenced in Superior Spider-Man.

So to break it down for you: Peter Parker didn't die. Peter Parker's body didn't die. Peter Parker's brain didn't die. Peter Parker's mind didn't even die.

The best guess: A copy of Parker's memories and personality were temporarily in the dying body of Doc Ock, and possibly even there until death. But Peter Parker is still Peter Parker. His consciousness is still in his own body-- He's just being controlled by Otto's dominant mind.

So Spider-Man didn't die. Doc Ock died, but found a way to put off the death of his consciousness by essentially possessing Parker. Ock thinks Parker's dead, but he's also finding that he's acting out of character a lot. This is when Parker's mind exerts control.

It's kind of messy, but the end result will be that eventually Parker will gain full control of his brain and body again, and Otto will somehow be forced out, killed off, or transplanted. At least, that's the current guess.

If you want to collect the HOW portion of the brain "swap", you'd need to get the preceding dozen issues or so. Ock did the whole thing remotely, from his deathbed, using octobots. Parker never knew it until it was too late.

So, I'd say pick up Amazing Spider-Man issues 690 - 700 if you want the whole story.

But rest assured. Spider-Man isn't dead. Peter Parker is still swinging around Manhattan as Spider-Man. It's just that he's sharing the ...

To sum up....


shiatty writing to bring about a gimmicky stunt that will be undone when the the gimmicky stunt has run its course.


You're describing Spider-Island, right?

/still don't understand why people raved about that one.
//sooo lame
 
2013-02-19 05:59:15 PM
So ZeroCorpse and/or Neocortex:

Where's a good place to start with the Amazing Spider-man? As mentioned before, I've read the spider totem arc, the Iron Spider and Civil War arcs, and Spider-Island, but every other place I try to drop in I either don't like the writer or I don't like the story. Y'all seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the Spider titles, so I'd like your opinions. Right now I've just been bouncing around between New Avengers, Heroic Age Avengers, and The Mighty Thor. Definitely need another solid run to get into.
 
2013-02-19 06:03:25 PM

mooseyfate: So ZeroCorpse and/or Neocortex:

Where's a good place to start with the Amazing Spider-man? As mentioned before, I've read the spider totem arc, the Iron Spider and Civil War arcs, and Spider-Island, but every other place I try to drop in I either don't like the writer or I don't like the story. Y'all seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the Spider titles, so I'd like your opinions. Right now I've just been bouncing around between New Avengers, Heroic Age Avengers, and The Mighty Thor. Definitely need another solid run to get into.


Sounds like you've read most of JMS's run, which (IMHO) is the high water mark of the last dozen years. Dan Slott is great with an occasional issue, but the story arcs are terrible. Spider Island is enough of a reason to walk away from the book until things DRASTICALLY improve. Sadly, we have this new bullshiat stunt, which tells me "continue with the staying away".
 
2013-02-19 06:51:31 PM
Well, I guess they have to keep giving work to Greg Land, Orson Scott Card, and Rob Liefeld, then.  They just can't keep up with demand otherwise!
 
2013-02-19 07:17:13 PM
I have the Death Of and Return Of Superman comics (Superman #75 & #82) both signed by Mike Carlin.

I'm awesome like that.
 
2013-02-19 07:44:15 PM

poot_rootbeer: Well, I guess they have to keep giving work to Greg Land, Orson Scott Card, and Rob Liefeld, then.  They just can't keep up with demand otherwise!


As I've said in pretty much every Rob Liefeld thread:  I'd much rather have Greg Land.  Atleast I can jerk off to Land's "art" without developing a Xenomorph fetish.
 
2013-02-19 07:59:01 PM

ZeroCorpse: And all this within the course of the past year. They've been radically rearranging things to match the Cinematic Universe, and I really don't like it. The movies should remain separate. I want them to be true to the comics. I don't want the comics redesigned to reflect the movies.


Well, in their defense, the object of any company is to ultimately make money, and since those movies are casting a huge net of potential comic book readers, it's in their best interest to ensure that anyone that DOES get into the comics has something to find familiar or that they don't find a Marvel Universe so unlike what was portrayed in the movies that they never buy another comic again.  I'm not saying it's awesome or anything, but I understand.  Marvel suffered heavily in the 90's, and now they're entering a new "Golden Age" thanks in large part to the hard work they've put into the Silver Screen.  Can't really blame them for trying to do it a little differently this time around.

/ironically (or not, actually, I'm pretty sure it's exactly what they intended) I got back into reading comics again after playing the Amazing Spider-man video game
//I'd read every comic I collected in game, and when I got to the Lizard's "Shed" story I just KNEW I had to get back into comics
///Unfortunately, I've found the Spider-man titles (which I most anticipated reading) the weakest titles, and instead got into heroes I never imagined I would, like Captain America, Daredevil, Dr. Strange, and the Iron Fist
 
2013-02-19 08:28:07 PM
Hopefully this will mean some more attention to independent comics, like Dark Horse/Image/Avatar, and not just more Marvel/Disney and DC/Warner Bros stuff.

/Been really enjoying David Lapham's Dan the Unharmable.
 
2013-02-19 08:35:31 PM

andrewagill: Hopefully this will mean some more attention to independent comics, like Dark Horse/Image/Avatar, and not just more Marvel/Disney and DC/Warner Bros stuff.

/Been really enjoying David Lapham's Dan the Unharmable.


Someone call me when Lapham goes back to Stray Bullets.

/and Frank Cho stops drawing wanking covers for Marvel and goes back to drawing a wanking strip with Brandy and Jen at Liberty Meadows.
 
2013-02-19 09:07:54 PM

Mad_Radhu: eggrolls: 1990 comic were $1.00 each.

Now a single issue costs $3.99.

Fours times the cost for the same level of profit means your selling one fourth the books.

When you adjust for inflation, $1 turns into about a $1.73 of 2012 money. If you go digital, back issues usually drop down to $1.99 after about a month or so for most titles, so the cost is similar in regards for downloads.

Digital could be a great thing for the industry around. It makes it easy for busy casual readers like me to get back into to comics in our middle age, and it could be great for print collectors because it will limit the number of actual printed issues out in the wild, which will increase rarity and could make collecting more profitable than it was in the bad old days of the market being flooded with so many comics that nothing in the 90s is really worth anything outside of stuff like early issues of Preacher, which never got the kind of print runs the Liefeld crap did back then.


That math actually makes it worse. If the adjusted cost for a book is only $1.73, then the unassailable fact that fans are still only purchasing 25% of the books they bought in the 90s means interest is even lower. Agree, digital has the potential to save the industry, and the only good thing that came out of the DC 'reboot' was same day digital release, but everything I see says comics are going the way of 8 tracks, AM radio and other outmoded information/entertainment modalities. Smoke 'em while you got 'em, boys.
 
2013-02-19 09:29:51 PM
Been debating what to do with the 2000 comics in my parents basement 5 states away...
 
2013-02-19 09:34:43 PM

mooseyfate: ZeroCorpse: And all this within the course of the past year. They've been radically rearranging things to match the Cinematic Universe, and I really don't like it. The movies should remain separate. I want them to be true to the comics. I don't want the comics redesigned to reflect the movies.

Well, in their defense, the object of any company is to ultimately make money, and since those movies are casting a huge net of potential comic book readers, it's in their best interest to ensure that anyone that DOES get into the comics has something to find familiar or that they don't find a Marvel Universe so unlike what was portrayed in the movies that they never buy another comic again.  I'm not saying it's awesome or anything, but I understand.  Marvel suffered heavily in the 90's, and now they're entering a new "Golden Age" thanks in large part to the hard work they've put into the Silver Screen.  Can't really blame them for trying to do it a little differently this time around.

/ironically (or not, actually, I'm pretty sure it's exactly what they intended) I got back into reading comics again after playing the Amazing Spider-man video game
//I'd read every comic I collected in game, and when I got to the Lizard's "Shed" story I just KNEW I had to get back into comics
///Unfortunately, I've found the Spider-man titles (which I most anticipated reading) the weakest titles, and instead got into heroes I never imagined I would, like Captain America, Daredevil, Dr. Strange, and the Iron Fist


I don't know that I would mind comics being made to resemble their movie counterparts. At least a little bit. I just doublechecked wiki, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_R.I.P. Batman was killed in 2008, right when the Dark Knight came out. So a bunch of kids would have watched the movie, decided it was awesome, then bought some comics to find this weird Zur-en-arrh thing going on.

They don't have to be 1:1 continuity, but it is analogous to there being a blockbuster Superman movie that garners critical and public praise... and in the comics Superman is dead and the 4 Superman imposters are doing their thing.
 
2013-02-19 10:47:15 PM
http://www.fark.com/comments/7599870/82605304#c82605304" href="82605304#c82605304" target="_blank">ZeroCorpse: First of all, Marvel won't make their Spider-Man or X-Men comics match the movies because Marvel Studios doesn't have the film rights to Spider-Man or the X-Men, so Sony and Fox can go f♥ck themselves. Damn straight.

But I think he's talking about the following:

* The Avengers stopped their previous series and started up a few new ones, with members set up to reflect the members in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Thank Merciful Odin for that one.  Avengers Assemble is the only way I'd want to read a Bendis Avengers comic.  The movie forced him to write about a team that actually resembled the Avengers I fell in love with and not Superfriends/Morrison-written-JLA ripoff that he came up with.

* Hawkeye dumped his old costume in favor of one that looks like the movie costume.  As long as they don't trade in the character's personality for that of the movie character.

* Captain America is also wearing a version of the movie costume (which SUCKS).  Agreed.
 
2013-02-20 01:27:57 AM

ZeroCorpse: And all this within the course of the past year. They've been radically rearranging things to match the Cinematic Universe, and I really don't like it. The movies should remain separate. I want them to be true to the comics. I don't want the comics redesigned to reflect the movies.


The Ultimate universe became the movie universe. And it in turn is taking over the mainstream Marvel U.

f*cking stupid, if you ask me.
 
2013-02-20 06:16:16 AM

PIP_the_TROLL: Fano: You mean like when Batman was dead and punching his way back from the past,

From now until the end of time, this will be carved on a virtual Mjolnir used to hammer the heads of every Batman fan for the excess of the plot armor afforded him in order to appease their unhealthy pseudosexual obsession.


Yeah, because when people go on about how much they hate invicible Batman it clearly demonstrates it's the Batman fans who have the issues.
 
2013-02-20 09:33:58 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: PIP_the_TROLL: Fano: You mean like when Batman was dead and punching his way back from the past,

From now until the end of time, this will be carved on a virtual Mjolnir used to hammer the heads of every Batman fan for the excess of the plot armor afforded him in order to appease their unhealthy pseudosexual obsession.

Yeah, because when people go on about how much they hate invicible Batman it clearly demonstrates it's the Batman fans who have the issues.


Why? Did it suddenly become illegal to recognize and disapprove of cultish behavior and those that feed and consume it? I guess all Apple and Scientology discussions are now banned also.
 
2013-02-20 09:48:20 AM

PIP_the_TROLL: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: PIP_the_TROLL: Fano: You mean like when Batman was dead and punching his way back from the past,

From now until the end of time, this will be carved on a virtual Mjolnir used to hammer the heads of every Batman fan for the excess of the plot armor afforded him in order to appease their unhealthy pseudosexual obsession.

Yeah, because when people go on about how much they hate invicible Batman it clearly demonstrates it's the Batman fans who have the issues.

Why? Did it suddenly become illegal to recognize and disapprove of cultish behavior and those that feed and consume it? I guess all Apple and Scientology discussions are now banned also.


Your name must be IMAX, because you're projecting like a motherfarker.

/Batman always wins
 
2013-02-20 10:16:13 AM

PIP_the_TROLL: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: PIP_the_TROLL: Fano: You mean like when Batman was dead and punching his way back from the past,

From now until the end of time, this will be carved on a virtual Mjolnir used to hammer the heads of every Batman fan for the excess of the plot armor afforded him in order to appease their unhealthy pseudosexual obsession.

Yeah, because when people go on about how much they hate invicible Batman it clearly demonstrates it's the Batman fans who have the issues.

Why? Did it suddenly become illegal to recognize and disapprove of cultish behavior and those that feed and consume it? I guess all Apple and Scientology discussions are now banned also.


"Illegal"? What the fark are you talking about?

You seem to have an issue with people gaining enjoyment in ways you don't approve of. I thought Pip the Troll was just a comic reference.

Batman was sent back in time by Darkseid. Given one of the first ever use of the Omega beams was to send people back in time it's not like they suddenly invented that to save Batman. Batman fought his way back across time because he's the goddamned Batman, not Sonny Sumo. I have no idea why that would be a problem for you or anyone else.

Someone on Fark once explained why Batman beats Superman and it's simply this; clever mortal defeats god makes a far better story than all powerful God triumphs over a mortal.

Some of the best Batman of the last ten years is the Brave and the Bold cartoons. Batman has cape which turns into a jet-pack and a car that turns into a Mechasuit, he's schtupping Catwoman (and probably several other of the female heroes), there are puns galore and despite all the silliness occasionally somebody dies. Not every episode worked, but when it did it was farking brilliant.

I have no wish to fark Batman (too many muscles and, besides, I don't like cock), I don't even want to be Batman (that would be both exhausting and depressing), I just enjoy reading and watching Batman.

He's a lot more of an enjoyable character than bloody Wolverine.
 
2013-02-20 10:46:29 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: He's a lot more of an enjoyable character than bloody Wolverine.


In that we are in total agreement.

To be honest, I probably came on a lot stronger than I intended. I just find the Batman fanwanking tiresome.

As a Superman fan, I'm certainly not blind to the (often legitimate) criticisms of who and what he is. I contest that that's not what Superman's really about, but i understand on the surface it invites that criticism.

But to then see Batman who wallows in far more egregious reality distortion then put on a pedestal as a superior character because of that distortion annoys me perhaps more than it should.

I'd disagree that most hardcore Batman fans wouldn't want to be him, though, since the core of any argument in support for him is he's 'an ordinary human'. There's clear transference and when Batman triumphs over foes far superior to him or against impossible odds, the vicarious euphoria fans experience is analogous to sexual release. Hence 'unhealthy pseudosexual obsession'.

And yes, there's gonna be someone that accuses us of being comic book nerds arguing about people that don't exist and topics that don't matter. But if you don't think nerdly ancestors weren't transcribing scrolls in some dark room 3000 years ago, arguing about who would win between Hercules and Achilles I suspect you'd be mistaken. Mythology has always been debated for fun.
 
2013-02-20 11:06:26 AM

PIP_the_TROLL: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: He's a lot more of an enjoyable character than bloody Wolverine.

In that we are in total agreement.

To be honest, I probably came on a lot stronger than I intended. I just find the Batman fanwanking tiresome.

As a Superman fan, I'm certainly not blind to the (often legitimate) criticisms of who and what he is. I contest that that's not what Superman's really about, but i understand on the surface it invites that criticism.

But to then see Batman who wallows in far more egregious reality distortion then put on a pedestal as a superior character because of that distortion annoys me perhaps more than it should.

I'd disagree that most hardcore Batman fans wouldn't want to be him, though, since the core of any argument in support for him is he's 'an ordinary human'. There's clear transference and when Batman triumphs over foes far superior to him or against impossible odds, the vicarious euphoria fans experience is analogous to sexual release. Hence 'unhealthy pseudosexual obsession'.

And yes, there's gonna be someone that accuses us of being comic book nerds arguing about people that don't exist and topics that don't matter. But if you don't think nerdly ancestors weren't transcribing scrolls in some dark room 3000 years ago, arguing about who would win between Hercules and Achilles I suspect you'd be mistaken. Mythology has always been debated for fun.


Hey, actual wars have been fought over whether the Christians' imaginary sky man was stronger than everyone else's. Those religion geeks are the most dangerous fanboys of all.

/this is my favorite Skyman

images.wikia.com
 
2013-02-20 11:16:27 AM

PIP_the_TROLL: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: He's a lot more of an enjoyable character than bloody Wolverine.

In that we are in total agreement.

To be honest, I probably came on a lot stronger than I intended. I just find the Batman fanwanking tiresome.

As a Superman fan, I'm certainly not blind to the (often legitimate) criticisms of who and what he is. I contest that that's not what Superman's really about, but i understand on the surface it invites that criticism.

But to then see Batman who wallows in far more egregious reality distortion then put on a pedestal as a superior character because of that distortion annoys me perhaps more than it should.

I'd disagree that most hardcore Batman fans wouldn't want to be him, though, since the core of any argument in support for him is he's 'an ordinary human'. There's clear transference and when Batman triumphs over foes far superior to him or against impossible odds, the vicarious euphoria fans experience is analogous to sexual release. Hence 'unhealthy pseudosexual obsession'.

And yes, there's gonna be someone that accuses us of being comic book nerds arguing about people that don't exist and topics that don't matter. But if you don't think nerdly ancestors weren't transcribing scrolls in some dark room 3000 years ago, arguing about who would win between Hercules and Achilles I suspect you'd be mistaken. Mythology has always been debated for fun.


It's not just the "he's an ordinary human" (let's face it, he isn't really) I think Batman's attraction to fans may be that he uses the exact same resource many of us have and wish was actually some use in reality; that is a vast amount of knowledge about shiat that's only possible in comics.

People acting like they want to be Batman is just due to the huge number of crowning moments of awesome he gets, but he only really ever gets them because everything else about him is pretty much a fark up.

You want to outsmart the Joker, punch out Bane and be the meat in a 1960s Julie Newmar/Yvonne Craig sandwich. Not be moping by your parent's grave for a quarter of a century and incapable of sustaining a relationship when you're near the end of your fourth decade.

Though to be fair I never get the criticism of Superman either. If he's boring, it's because it's a boring story.

And as for Superboy punching reality. If reality has some kind of structure and Superboy has all the powers of Superman, then damn straight Superboy can punch reality. It's not even the hundredth daftest idea to feature in a comic.
 
2013-02-20 11:28:39 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: People acting like they want to be Batman is just due to the huge number of crowning moments of awesome he gets, but he only really ever gets them because everything else about him is pretty much a fark up.


Okay, but being sad because your parents died is not an equal trade for being shown as being able to outsmart and outfight near-omniscient/potent gods with farking $20 batarangs.
 
2013-02-20 11:40:36 AM

PIP_the_TROLL: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: People acting like they want to be Batman is just due to the huge number of crowning moments of awesome he gets, but he only really ever gets them because everything else about him is pretty much a fark up.

Okay, but being sad because your parents died is not an equal trade for being shown as being able to outsmart and outfight near-omniscient/potent gods with farking $20 batarangs.


Yeah, but he generally gets zapped out of history/suffers a massive heart attack straight after.

He doesn't get to slay god then stand triumphant over the corpse, he gives them a wedgie then smirks and awaits the consequences.

He's a bit like the honey badger, they've got the power but he just don't give a fark.
 
2013-02-20 12:02:04 PM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: He's a bit like the honey badger, they've got the power but he just don't give a fark.


But that's the thing. He's not a playful but scrappy character. You don't get to root for him defying the odds or at least attempting to. It's never David vs Goliath with Batman. It's just outright, inexplicable victory. It's a win nobody saw coming because it was impossible or simple contrivance.

99% of the time he doesn't get zapped or suffer the heart attack. And even if he does, he survives what lays his companions equally low. Companions that are - almost as a rule - demigods.

In his element - Gotham City, dead of night, trading pies with Joker or punching out bank robbers or hunting down a serial killer - Batman is phenomenal. He's interesting and cool and totally fits.

But when they pull him out of that and put him up against Darkseid or Mongol the incredulity just totally turns me off.
 
2013-02-20 12:43:38 PM

PIP_the_TROLL: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: He's a bit like the honey badger, they've got the power but he just don't give a fark.

But that's the thing. He's not a playful but scrappy character. You don't get to root for him defying the odds or at least attempting to. It's never David vs Goliath with Batman. It's just outright, inexplicable victory. It's a win nobody saw coming because it was impossible or simple contrivance.

99% of the time he doesn't get zapped or suffer the heart attack. And even if he does, he survives what lays his companions equally low. Companions that are - almost as a rule - demigods.

In his element - Gotham City, dead of night, trading pies with Joker or punching out bank robbers or hunting down a serial killer - Batman is phenomenal. He's interesting and cool and totally fits.

But when they pull him out of that and put him up against Darkseid or Mongol the incredulity just totally turns me off.



Actually I'd say around 9 out of 10 times he does get zapped.

In Rock of Ages future Batman punches out Metron then gets zapped by Darkseid.

I'm trying to remember exactly what happened in the comic with Mongol, but in the cartoon of For the Man who Has Everything he gives Clark the big speech to snap him out of it, then gets caught by the hallucinogenic plant himself. Jason Todd saves the day.

One of my favourites is Cosmic Odyssey. Bats get the absolute and utter living shiat kicked out of him and still takes a swing at Orion at the end, like a farking boss.

One of the funny ones is Morrison's run on JLA, where everyone claims Bats was turned into this godlike figure. When you actually read it, sure he's awesome, but it's rarely Bats who saves the day, he mostly just provides the team with tactics and motivational speeches. Even in the first story, when he was first to figure out the truth and then used that knowledge to kick the shiat out of four white Martians, it had absolutely no wider plot implication whatsoever. Superman and J'onn J'onzz saved the world, Batman just got to look cool.

That story also had a great Superman moment. At the start of the last issue, when Supes figures out that if he can hear alarms all over the world then he isn't really being poisoned by kryptonite and that means he's fighting psychics and if they're psychics and have taken out every hero with pyrokinetic powers, then they're Martians. So he busts his chains, stands up and sets the chief martian on fire with his heat vision.

Anyway, it's beer o'clock over here. So discussion about how damn awesome Batman is will have to resume another time.

Later chums.
 
2013-02-20 05:29:22 PM

ZeroCorpse: Empty Matchbook: verbaltoxin: More like the content owners are saying, "KEEP MAKING THOSE MOVIES, BOYS! And you, the drawing geeks! Retcon your sh*t to be more like the movie! We got IP to sell here, people, move it out!"

Even though there's absolutely no link between comic book movie sales and comic book sales, SURE, I'm absolutely sure you're right, person who clearly hasn't picked up/read a comic in at least ten years!

/remember when all of Manhattan got spider powers in that one movie?
//how about the time Red Skull used Professor X's brain to inspire hate-fueled, anti-mutant riots?
///how about when Wolverine's son abducted one of his students in an attempt to trigger a super-villain freakout?

First of all, Marvel won't make their Spider-Man or X-Men comics match the movies because Marvel Studios doesn't have the film rights to Spider-Man or the X-Men, so Sony and Fox can go f♥ck themselves.

But I think he's talking about the following:

* The Avengers stopped their previous series and started up a few new ones, with members set up to reflect the members in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.


They didn't stop their previous series, they added a new title with a "film appropriate" roster (which has, ironically, become one of the best Avengers titles after the first two arcs and with the non-movie roster)

* White Nick Fury has been retired in the mainstream Marvel Universe (616) and replaced by Nick Fury Jr. who just happens to be a one-eyed Black man who looks like Samuel L. Jackson.

This I can't defend, it's one of the absolute DUMBEST things they've done in ten years.

* Hawkeye dumped his old costume in favor of one that looks like the movie costume.

To be more precise: it resembles his original Ultimates costume, which was the basis of the movie.

* Captain America is also wearing a version of the movie costume (which SUCKS).

That's a matter of taste, I think the little wingtips on the original costume look absolutely hilarious and the scales are one of the biggest complaints, behind Spidey's webbing, of artists.

* The Hulk was hastily rushed back into good-guy status and plopped back on the Avengers roster.

Hulk's been a good guy since World War Hulk, which was almost 10 years ago. There was nothing "hasty" about that transformation.

* They have been pushing Black Widow on the readers more than usual. And she kinda looks like Scarlett now when some artists draw her.

That's up to the artist, I can't really see that as a mandate. And if they want to up the profile on a terminal B-list character instead of giving Batma-er, Wolverine another title, I say what's the harm?

* Stark has been rearranged quite a bit to make him more like movie Stark. Apparently, he now has a flux capacitor on his chest (yes, I'm being snarky) and he has suddenly developed a razor wit, not unlike RDJ's version. He's also talking to his on-board computer, named J.A.R.V.I.S., which never exis ...

Stark's ALWAYS been snarky, his original concept was based on a bet that they couldn't create a likeable weapons manufacturer during the Vietnam War-era. And he always had an arc reactor (or a MacGuffin Machine, or whatever the hell it's called) in his chest. In fact the movie was based on Warren Ellis' retcon of Stark's origin to modernize him, so really the cinematic universe took its cues from the comics.

* Agent Coulson is now a prominent figure in the mainstream Marvel Universe. He didn't exist until after the movies.

This too was part of that whole insufferable Nick Fury storyline.

* Thor has been toned down a bit to match the movie version. His appearance is more in-line with the movies, too.

Thor's current title is about him hunting down a godkiller that's been ravaging its way through various alien pantheons. Sounds pretty classic to me.

And all this within the course of the past year. They've been radically rearranging things to match the Cinematic Universe, and I really don't like it. The movies should remain separate. I want them to be true to the comics. I don't want the comics redesigned to reflect the movies.

I wouldn't count any of these as "MAJOR RETCONS," or whatever else the poster before was whinging about. And seriously, NONE of the current Avengers rosters even remotely resemble the cinematic rosters. As you can see, I too hate some of the caveats made to accomodate the "cinematic" universe, but not all of them are bad and most of them are EXTREMELY minor. There's still an absolute CRAPTON of content that has nothing to do with the movies or the cinematic universe (Winter Soldier, Indestructible Hulk, Thor: God of Thunder, the current Captain America arc, Hawkeye's solo book, Avengers Arena just to name a FEW).

It's definitely a fallacy that publishers fall into that high movie sales equate to high comic sales, but they haven't done anything major or serious (I really, REALLY don't count "new costumes" as a major change) to change how the Marvel U.
 
2013-02-20 08:37:49 PM
Mainstream comics are like pimples. They're fun to dig into, but are painful to endure and leave an ugly mark.
 
2013-02-20 08:46:27 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Mainstream comics are like pimples. They're fun to dig into, but are painful to endure and leave an ugly mark.


That reminds me, I need to finish Transmetropolitan.
 
2013-02-20 10:15:28 PM

Empty Matchbook: . And seriously, NONE of the current Avengers rosters even remotely resemble the cinematic rosters.


Except Hickman's book, which uses exactly the cinematic roster as its basis.
 
2013-02-22 01:26:21 AM

Empty Matchbook: * The Hulk was hastily rushed back into good-guy status and plopped back on the Avengers roster.

Hulk's been a good guy since World War Hulk, which was almost 10 years ago. There was nothing "hasty" about that transformation.


Nope. Hulk and Banner were separated, and Hulk went his own way. Both of them became a bit nuts. Banner went for a full-on mad scientist villain thing, and the Hulk didn't give a crap about anything except killing Banner, and squashing anyone that got in his way. This was all last year. When the Avengers came calling at that time, the Hulk put up a fight and took off. Eventually, he did kill Banner (apparently), but then that turned out to be some trickery and deception and, long-story-short, the Hulk and Banner are back together now.

Fast-forward to the post-movie era. Suddenly, Avengers Assemble had the Hulk back as a good guy without having resolved the whole Banner/Hulk split thing first (apparently, AA took place after that Hulk storyline, but they didn't bother to tell the readers that). Worse, the Hulk in the main Hulk comics was bald and relatively intelligent. The Hulk in Avengers Assemble was monosyllabic (at first) and had a full head of hair.

Hebalo: mooseyfate: So ZeroCorpse and/or Neocortex:

Where's a good place to start with the Amazing Spider-man? As mentioned before, I've read the spider totem arc, the Iron Spider and Civil War arcs, and Spider-Island, but every other place I try to drop in I either don't like the writer or I don't like the story. Y'all seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the Spider titles, so I'd like your opinions. Right now I've just been bouncing around between New Avengers, Heroic Age Avengers, and The Mighty Thor. Definitely need another solid run to get into.

Sounds like you've read most of JMS's run, which (IMHO) is the high water mark of the last dozen years. Dan Slott is great with an occasional issue, but the story arcs are terrible. Spider Island is enough of a reason to walk away from the book until things DRASTICALLY improve. Sadly, we have this new bullshiat stunt, which tells me "continue with the staying away".


I respectfully disagree. JMS retconned way too much. He went way off the rails, and the whole reason OMD happened was to fix a lot of his tinkering with Spider-Man's origin, background, and other things.

I don't see how anyone can complain about Spider-Island and then say JMS was awesome after he wrote the "Gwen Stacy f♥cked Norman Osborn and had his kids" arc. Simply AWFUL stuff. The whole Spider-Totem story was garbage. The new powers were idiotic. JMS's best stuff was during Civil War, but that was only barely decent.

Meanwhile, Dan Slott has made more improvements-- SUBTLE improvements-- to the character in his run that actually make sense. Slott's not responsible for the marriage break-up, but he is responsible for getting Peter back to what he should be doing: Science. He's responsible for giving Pete one of his better, more interesting girlfriends (Carly Cooper). He's responsible for getting Aunt May married off and mostly out of the picture. He's responsible for fixing the whole "JJJ inexplicably hates Spider-Man even though he has personally seen Spidey save people's lives numerous times" thing (JJJ actually kind of likes Spider-Man now). He's responsible for some of the best villain re-introductions in the past two decades (He actually made Doc Ock menacing, the Lizard scary, and Chameleon someone to worry about, as well as making Rhino a deeper, more complex character).

He explained away all the OMD madness in very satisfactory ways, too. I think ASM was at it's best in a couple decades under Dan Slott's control, and I've read every ASM ever printed.

Now, yes... Spider Island was a bit of a misfire. I don't think it came off quite the way he imagined it, and I suspect he had someone else telling him what direction to go with it. On the other hand, it led to some good changes in the Spider-Man mythos, such as the new Madam Web (the former Spider-Woman, Julia Carpenter), the new Venom (probably the best version of the character since before Carnage), and Spider-Man finally getting off his ass and learning actual martial arts (tailored to his powers) from Shang Chi (something he should have done ages ago).

And I've been enjoying Superior Spider-Man quite a bit. It's very good, kind of clever, and takes the character in a new direction without changing his origin (spider-totem my ass).

So I would say a perfect recent jumping-on point would be Brand New Day, Amazing Spider-Man #546, and read up to #700, the last issue.

When you get to Spider Island, just skim most of it, read the very end, and then keep going. There's a lot of good stuff around it, but the main Spider Island story is a mess. No argument from me on that.

I liked the way JMS wrote, I just didn't like WHAT he wrote. He shat all over Gwen's memory, and Spidey's origin, and he was too reliant on MJ for drama or tension. He significantly changed Spider-Man, and not in a good way. I'm glad it was mostly undone by Mephisto, even though I'm bummed that they had to bring Mephisto into it at all.
 
2013-02-22 01:59:16 AM

Hebalo: Empty Matchbook: . And seriously, NONE of the current Avengers rosters even remotely resemble the cinematic rosters.

Except Hickman's book, which uses exactly the cinematic roster as its basis.


Comic covers haven't been accurate since the Golden Age. Seriously, Hickman's roster includes Capt Marvel, Capt Universe, Hyperion...ya know, ALL the movie characters...

ZeroCorpse: Empty Matchbook: * The Hulk was hastily rushed back into good-guy status and plopped back on the Avengers roster.

Hulk's been a good guy since World War Hulk, which was almost 10 years ago. There was nothing "hasty" about that transformation.

Nope. Hulk and Banner were separated, and Hulk went his own way. Both of them became a bit nuts. Banner went for a full-on mad scientist villain thing, and the Hulk didn't give a crap about anything except killing Banner, and squashing anyone that got in his way. This was all last year. When the Avengers came calling at that time, the Hulk put up a fight and took off. Eventually, he did kill Banner (apparently), but then that turned out to be some trickery and deception and, long-story-short, the Hulk and Banner are back together now.

Fast-forward to the post-movie era. Suddenly, Avengers Assemble had the Hulk back as a good guy without having resolved the whole Banner/Hulk split thing first (apparently, AA took place after that Hulk storyline, but they didn't bother to tell the readers that). Worse, the Hulk in the main Hulk comics was bald and relatively intelligent. The Hulk in Avengers Assemble was monosyllabic (at first) and had a full head of hair.

Hebalo: mooseyfate: So ZeroCorpse and/or Neocortex:

Where's a good place to start with the Amazing Spider-man? As mentioned before, I've read the spider totem arc, the Iron Spider and Civil War arcs, and Spider-Island, but every other place I try to drop in I either don't like the writer or I don't like the story. Y'all seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the Spider titles, so I'd like your opinions. Right now I've just been bouncing around between New Avengers, Heroic Age Avengers, and The Mighty Thor. Definitely need another solid run to get into.

Sounds like you've read most of JMS's run, which (IMHO) is the high water mark of the last dozen years. Dan Slott is great with an occasional issue, but the story arcs are terrible. Spider Island is enough of a reason to wal ...


That Hulk/Banner "Island of Dr. Moreau" thing was fine and all, but it really, REALLY tanked sales, so one could make the argument that they put the writer who completely revamped Daredevil (and won an Eisner for his efforts) on the book to make Hulk interesting again.

And Dan Slott's run on Spider-Man is AMAZING, especially considering he had to pick up the torch out of the pile of manure that was One More Day.
 
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