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(Hot Air)   Remember when overpopulation was going to kill us all? Now we're in the age of the "fertility panic"   (hotair.com) divider line 316
    More: Obvious, law of diminishing returns  
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11871 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2013 at 9:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-18 08:38:29 PM  
More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue
 
2013-02-18 08:44:39 PM  
Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.
 
2013-02-18 08:46:05 PM  
I blame porn.
 
2013-02-18 08:54:44 PM  
From the Wikipedia article on ZPG (Zero Population Growth)

In the late 1960s ZPG became a big political movement in the U.S. and parts of Europe, with strong links to environmentalism and feminism. Yale University was a stronghold of the ZPG activists who believed "that a constantly increasing population is responsible for many of our problems: pollution, violence, loss of values and of individual privacy."[8] Founding fathers of the movement were Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb, and Thomas Eisner. Ehrlich stated: "The mother of the year should be a sterlized woman with two adopted children."

My father was an OB/GYN in the '60s and 70's. I remember him wearing a ZPG button on his lab coat.
That was the thinking post baby boom, and he was a supporter of that cause. Geez Dad, what a waste of time.
 
2013-02-18 08:56:43 PM  
The biggest side effect of the population leveling off is that once the baby boomers die off, there will be a massive world-wide worker shortage.  Countries will be fighting to let immigrants in.  It will be the greatest boon to the Middle Class since the Black Death.
 
2013-02-18 09:21:17 PM  
well you can blame me for lack of whatever the US average crotch fruit is for married couples. We are 43, I am snipped, and adoption is not on the table.
 
2013-02-18 09:21:31 PM  
I prefer a fertility picnic.
 
2013-02-18 09:23:59 PM  
Paul Ehrlich was so very wrong on so many levels.

I hope that Julian Simon's heirs still have the framed check.
 
2013-02-18 09:24:51 PM  
Definitely white people problems.
 
2013-02-18 09:26:46 PM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


This.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal recently that began by saying "hey, the middle class is vanishing because of birth rates!  Let's use 'white and college educated' as a stand-in for middle class, because that's what we think when we think middle class."

fark the WSJ and fark this line of thinking.
 
2013-02-18 09:27:37 PM  
Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.
 
2013-02-18 09:27:44 PM  

basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue


When I was in elementry school in the 80s two things were taught - we will run out of oil by the year 2000 and over population will destroy this planet  And here we are - happily plugging along.

/lets talk about real problems like climat change and feed people - both are political problems
 
2013-02-18 09:28:22 PM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


Don't forget the Japanese. Half the incentive for creating robots is so they can avoid having to open their borders to permanent immigration.

Meanwhile, China one child policy mixed with their preference of boys means you'll have a generation of working class men with no females around.

Hmmm.... Maybe Japan and China can finally reach piece by trading Japanese sex bot technology to help the Chinese government from having a revolution of sexually frustrated men.
 
2013-02-18 09:28:39 PM  
Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.

The solution, then, is not the keep increasing the population for economic prosperity's sake, but to throw away Capitalism entirely and adopt a new economic metric that doesn't rely on growth and profit as the be-all and end-all of human endeavor.

We have to change our priorities here.
 
2013-02-18 09:29:29 PM  
hey, if there's any ladies want to jump on this bandwagon I do tend to make cute, smart, crazy children

just sayin'
 
2013-02-18 09:30:50 PM  

ultraholland: I prefer a fertility picnic.


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

The far out future truly is a great place.

/May no accurately represent the fate of the Earth in regards to overpopulation.
//Here's hoping it does
///Slashies come in threes.
 
2013-02-18 09:31:00 PM  
Because more people are smart enough to realize having kids may not be worth it?  Even if (not "after") they grow up and leave home?

Anyone else who can take the risk ... my hat's off to you.  Mean it.
 
2013-02-18 09:31:38 PM  

Fubini: Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.


What if the baby boom isn't about preventing Soylent Green, but crafty old people plotting to enact Swift's A Modest Proposal?
 
2013-02-18 09:31:46 PM  
I'm one of six kids and I have a total of seven nieces and nephews. One of the nephews is adopted. So, we're even.
 
2013-02-18 09:32:13 PM  

Ishkur: Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.

The solution, then, is not the keep increasing the population for economic prosperity's sake, but to throw away Capitalism entirely and adopt a new economic metric that doesn't rely on growth and profit as the be-all and end-all of human endeavor.

We have to change our priorities here.


Profit's a fine motivator/metric.  Profit GROWTH is the killer.  When all those assholes in the 80s decided to fetishize financial industry gambling, we all lost.
 
2013-02-18 09:32:17 PM  
Well, fewer humans, particularly in developed countries is certainly better for maintaining the habitability of the earth, but governments depend on an ever-expanding tax-base to make good on those promises they made.
 
2013-02-18 09:32:20 PM  

Ishkur: And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.


Actually the structure of the faulty economics (not capitalism) put in place by most western gov'ts is what needs constant growth.  Capitalism does not.
 
2013-02-18 09:32:45 PM  

basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue


It's possible to run out of people in a typical human life span. If for some reason no new people were made from now then there would be none of us left in 100 years.
 
2013-02-18 09:33:15 PM  
I'm with Gat on this one.  I see white racists complain about being out-bred by the browns all the time and all I can think is, "You can't stand your own women enough to fark them.  It's almost like subconsciously you aren't convinced of your own superiority after all."
 
2013-02-18 09:33:22 PM  

Ishkur: Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.

The solution, then, is not the keep increasing the population for economic prosperity's sake, but to throw away Capitalism entirely and adopt a new economic metric that doesn't rely on growth and profit as the be-all and end-all of human endeavor.

We have to change our priorities here.


But that's like work and stuff. 3D printing and private asteroid mining will save us.
 
2013-02-18 09:33:41 PM  

Dumski: From the Wikipedia article on ZPG (Zero Population Growth)

In the late 1960s ZPG became a big political movement in the U.S. and parts of Europe, with strong links to environmentalism and feminism. Yale University was a stronghold of the ZPG activists who believed "that a constantly increasing population is responsible for many of our problems: pollution, violence, loss of values and of individual privacy."[8] Founding fathers of the movement were Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb, and Thomas Eisner. Ehrlich stated: "The mother of the year should be a sterlized woman with two adopted children."

My father was an OB/GYN in the '60s and 70's. I remember him wearing a ZPG button on his lab coat.
That was the thinking post baby boom, and he was a supporter of that cause. Geez Dad, what a waste of time.


Well, when you base retirement plans on Ponzi schemes you need more growth.

I'm not saying there's not room for more growth, but have you seen a graph of human population growth?

www.endangeredspecieshandbook.org

Population is a huge concern whether it's not having enough workers to support the old folks or so many people that resources like food, water and energy because a problem not to mention environmental concerns.

I'm sure we as a species will survive but we're going to have issues with population.
 
2013-02-18 09:34:10 PM  
Time to end planned parenthood.
 
2013-02-18 09:35:36 PM  

Pumpernickel bread: Well, fewer humans, particularly in developed countries is certainly better for maintaining the habitability of the earth, but governments depend on an ever-expanding tax-base to make good on those promises they made.


Private choices are too blame, too. Every retirement planning guide shows a WASPY couple that look 50 retiring to one of their fantastic beach homes, drinking wine and eating great food, before going on an all-inclusive cruise to the Caribbean. 

What they sometimes fail to note is that investment based retirement plans and Social Security share a common thread: They both require extracting wealth from future productivity to fund the retirement of old people.
 
2013-02-18 09:36:17 PM  

basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue


exponential growth, how does it work?
 
2013-02-18 09:36:25 PM  
If you look at current and projected water shortages its simple to see that over-population is a real problem and there are not enough resources to sustain our current global population, never mind an additional few billion.

Babyboomers not being able to retire to a jet setting life of luxory like medieval Royalty shouldn't be the arbitrator of policies.  Unfortunately it is and western civilization looks to be committing suicide because of it.
 
2013-02-18 09:36:44 PM  

Ed Willy: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.

Don't forget the Japanese. Half the incentive for creating robots is so they can avoid having to open their borders to permanent immigration.

Meanwhile, China one child policy mixed with their preference of boys means you'll have a generation of working class men with no females around.

Hmmm.... Maybe Japan and China can finally reach piece by trading Japanese sex bot technology to help the Chinese government from having a revolution of sexually frustrated men.


Japan's one of those wait and see cases.  I think they'll have to give in and open it up to immigration eventually.

China and India are more worrysome because that many single males is a pretty strong correlator to internal instability and warmongering.
 
2013-02-18 09:37:23 PM  

Mentat: The biggest side effect of the population leveling off is that once the baby boomers die off, there will be a massive world-wide worker shortage.  Countries will be fighting to let immigrants in.  It will be the greatest boon to the Middle Class since the Black Death.


Why? Really not saying you're totally right or wrong, but with reduced population comes... reduced demand.  Yes? No?

Again, it's more the matter of capitalism in a negative-growth environment.  It's not that capital can't demand gain on itself in a shrinking economy, but if it does, eventually *all* the rewards of the system go to the accumulated capital-holders.  It's plausible in a growing economy (which has largely been predicated on a growing population) because some of the gains go to labor (and demand) and some of them go to pay profit to capital-holders for holding capital.
 
2013-02-18 09:37:25 PM  

gingerjet: basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue

When I was in elementry school in the 80s two things were taught - we will run out of oil by the year 2000 and over population will destroy this planet  And here we are - happily plugging along.

/lets talk about real problems like climat change and feed people - both are political problems


Every time you click the big button on this site the site's sponsors pay for a little over 1 cup of rice to feed the hungry. I have clicked daily for the last 13 years.

http://www.hungersite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=1
 
2013-02-18 09:37:35 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com

Love will find a way.
 
2013-02-18 09:37:48 PM  
Open your legs, ladies. I'm here to help the country.
 
2013-02-18 09:39:29 PM  

Fubini: Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.


Japan and Italy are already zooming down that hill, with China right on their ass and picking up speed.

As a planet, we need to figure out how to deal with most people living to 80 and most women only having two or three kids. Not the old model of croaking at fifty and leaving behind six sickly kids.
 
2013-02-18 09:39:50 PM  
Don't forget that this story came from Hot Air and is FULL OF LIES.

The United States fertility rate, according the World Bank, not some idiot blogger, is a healthy 2.1.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp _d yn_tfrt_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=united%20states%20fertility% 20rate
 
2013-02-18 09:40:35 PM  
It's Hot Air, so I'm going to assume that they mean "White fertility panic."
 
2013-02-18 09:41:03 PM  

Koodz: I'm with Gat on this one.  I see white racists complain about being out-bred by the browns all the time and all I can think is, "You can't stand your own women enough to fark them.  It's almost like subconsciously you aren't convinced of your own superiority after all."


Have you ever seen an attractive white supremacist?
 
2013-02-18 09:41:24 PM  

Ishkur: Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.

The solution, then, is not the keep increasing the population for economic prosperity's sake, but to throw away Capitalism entirely and adopt a new economic metric that doesn't rely on growth and profit as the be-all and end-all of human endeavor.

We have to change our priorities here.


I wish I could give this post the HERO tag. I also agree with this quote FTFA " If this is a new fad in government policy, I think I'll pass. Simply producing larger raw numbers of people is no substitute for a society where families produce the children they can love and afford to raise. "

Exactly. One of the reasons I don't have any children myself is because among my sibling there are more 15 nieces and nephews with my eldest brother has nine kids all to himself. He doesn't have any kids imo, what he's got is a human resources issue.
 
2013-02-18 09:42:16 PM  
Can I play the white male race card yet?
 
2013-02-18 09:45:14 PM  
Fertility alarmists in the US tend to be the same people who oppose immigration, working mothers and state spending.
 
2013-02-18 09:46:53 PM  

thermo: well you can blame me for lack of whatever the US average crotch fruit is for married couples. We are 43, I am snipped, and adoption is not on the table.


I'm pretty sure adoption won't change the birth rate at all. The kid's already been born
 
2013-02-18 09:46:56 PM  

Ishkur: Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.

The solution, then, is not the keep increasing the population for economic prosperity's sake, but to throw away Capitalism entirely and adopt a new economic metric that doesn't rely on growth and profit as the be-all and end-all of human endeavor.

We have to change our priorities here.


We're not ready to stop growth. A world wide GPD/Capita of $12,000 (PPP indexed) isn't exactly a super comfortable wage. Maybe when we get to the US's total we can stop concentrating on growth and start concentrating on wealth for a change. (Time=money, so wealth is the ability to spend your time not working.)

Lack of energy is the current inhibitor for growth. We need to find a way to extract more energy from this planet so that we can spread and harvest other planets (Jupiter, here we come!) I am pinning many of my hopes to ITER. Harnessing the power of fusion is still the future.
 
2013-02-18 09:49:24 PM  

MugzyBrown: Actually the structure of the faulty economics (not capitalism) put in place by most western gov'ts is what needs constant growth. Capitalism does not.


Explain.

(keep in mind that Capitalism relies on scarcity to operate and will be naturally cast aside in the distant future anyway as we approach post-scarcity civilization)
 
2013-02-18 09:49:58 PM  

frestcrallen: Fertility alarmists in the US tend to be the same people who oppose immigration, working mothers and state spending.


True, orthodox Jews, Mormons and various Christian evangelicals are into that "overwhelm the world with our spawn" thing.
 
2013-02-18 09:50:15 PM  

Ishkur: Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.

The solution, then, is not the keep increasing the population for economic prosperity's sake, but to throw away Capitalism entirely and adopt a new economic metric that doesn't rely on growth and profit as the be-all and end-all of human endeavor.

We have to change our priorities here.


Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is just crazy talk.
 
2013-02-18 09:50:23 PM  
GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


previews.agefotostock.com

cdn.theatlanticcities.com

"Dreams of the future of humanity"

Paradise, eh, GAT_00?
 
2013-02-18 09:50:37 PM  

Happy Hours: I'm sure we as a species will survive but we're going to have issues with population.


I see your...

www.endangeredspecieshandbook.org

And raise you with what the UN actually thinks is going to happen...

thehaberboschprocess.files.wordpress.com

IOW, we're going to top out at about 50% higher than we are now.

Scary graphs are scary?
 
2013-02-18 09:51:02 PM  
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-02-18 09:51:32 PM  
Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.
 
2013-02-18 09:51:50 PM  

Happy Hours: Well, when you base retirement plans on Ponzi schemes you need more growth.


SS isn't a Ponzi scheme and it doesn't need more growth.

SS is fine so long as there are always more working people than retired people -- that's not a Ponzi scheme. The big SS crunch over the next 15 years is because the Boomber are too numerous and they didn't have enough children.

SS can't handle demographic bulges, that's all.
 
2013-02-18 09:52:55 PM  

Kuta: Don't forget that this story came from Hot Air and is FULL OF LIES.

The United States fertility rate, according the World Bank, not some idiot blogger, is a healthy 2.1.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp _d yn_tfrt_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=united%20states%20fertility% 20rate


Notice your graph stops at 2010 and the article is talking about 2011?
 
2013-02-18 09:53:05 PM  

GAT_00: Koodz: I'm with Gat on this one.  I see white racists complain about being out-bred by the browns all the time and all I can think is, "You can't stand your own women enough to fark them.  It's almost like subconsciously you aren't convinced of your own superiority after all."

Have you ever seen an attractive white supremacist?


American History X? And you have a point.
 
2013-02-18 09:54:08 PM  

kbotc: A world wide GPD/Capita of $12,000 (PPP indexed) isn't exactly a super comfortable wage.


Wut?

Former Exxon CEO Lee Raymond is VERY comfortable!

dvmx.com
 
2013-02-18 09:54:45 PM  

super_grass: I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


Now ^^^THAT RIGHT THERE^^^ is some weapons-grade self-delusion.
 
2013-02-18 09:55:29 PM  
And if you want a liberal-friendly source for that here you go:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/15/us-birth-rate_n_1779960.html ? utm_hp_ref=business
 
2013-02-18 09:56:01 PM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


Alright, I see we're done here. Good thread everyone.
 
2013-02-18 09:56:35 PM  

kg2095: basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue

It's possible to run out of people in a typical human life span. If for some reason no new people were made from now then there would be none of us left in 100 years.


We could do even better with the proper application of nuclear weaponry.
 
2013-02-18 09:57:24 PM  

SuperChuck: thermo: well you can blame me for lack of whatever the US average crotch fruit is for married couples. We are 43, I am snipped, and adoption is not on the table.

I'm pretty sure adoption won't change the birth rate at all. The kid's already been born


You are correct sir, and this concludes my beer drinking and Fark posting...... At least until I forget that I posted this.
 
2013-02-18 09:59:41 PM  
Like most growth, world population is more likely logistics growth than exponential.  We may have passed the inflection point, which indicates population will level off around 12-13 billion.
 
2013-02-18 09:59:54 PM  
The real secret is the way we're moving into a "post-scarcity" age, where people will only work if they want to.  Machines do things cheaply and efficiently, and fewer and fewer people have more than one child.
 
2013-02-18 10:00:16 PM  

kbotc: (Jupiter, here we come!)


Hahahaha. Look around you, friend. Fat chance that humanity is getting off this rock. We're going to self-destruct. The Universe couldn't care less.
 
2013-02-18 10:00:24 PM  
The intro to Idiocracy explains the problem in a nutshell. The problem isn't fertility, it's that the wrong people are the ones using their fertility.
 
2013-02-18 10:01:27 PM  

SuperChuck: thermo: well you can blame me for lack of whatever the US average crotch fruit is for married couples. We are 43, I am snipped, and adoption is not on the table.

I'm pretty sure adoption won't change the birth rate at all. The kid's already been born


But if you adopt a kid rather than making one, that's one less kid on the planet. And besides, you're helping that kid out. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
 
2013-02-18 10:01:49 PM  
Uncontrolled birth rate - Panic! 1910's to 1970's
One of the stated reason for German Expansionism and Japanese Expansionism was the need for space for population growth. Japan feared a 1975 population projection estimating 106 million people, and Germans we're augmenting their argument that Liebensraum (space for the growth of the Germanic peoples could be carved out of Eastern Europe). Population growth models for both were very close to being accurate (5% variance), but those economies absorbed and utilized all methodologies including massive trade in food for technology and wealth to power through their population growth and indstrial/economic development.

Industrialized Country Reproductive Rate Falls - Panic, 2000 to present
The graying of the industrialized countries does pose a challenge, but it isn't one that can't be overcome by proper planning.

The biggest real problem in America isn't a population issue directly, it is that we've built our primary infrastructure in the country flat and wide, instead of compactly/vertically. The 'burbs literally are consuming all of our resources, fuel to travel, supermarket/superstore sprawl, school bussing, home to work travel.
If we reformatted our cities to be vertical, NYC would only need to cover 1 square mile providing 5000 square ft of apartment space per family of 4 in 20,000 58 story buildings (allowing for 5600 58 story buildings for commercial/industrial and food production/distribution, hospitals, emergency services etc). If we were to take this compact approach, we could reduce the needed infrastructure of the city by nearly 10,000 combined miles of roads, subways, bus lines not to mention all of the other government investments like school properties, police, fire and emergency service vehicles, etc. Literally we could do away with supporting 90% of our current expenditure of time and money, by making our cities vertical instead of sprawling wastelands.
Imagine the exact same scenario in LA, and we are talking a 97% reduction in infrastructure, and resource usage.

Population isn't our problem, its the fact we aren't able to plan and accept what the expanding population means in regards to old ways of thinking about housing, water, electrical distribution, usage patterns, etc. Essentially we aren't incorporating new tech, and we aren't thinking in a way that is productive for the technical future.
 
2013-02-18 10:01:59 PM  

super_grass: I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


You know who the most racist people in the world are? Asians. On other Asians.

That shiat goes back for millenia.
 
2013-02-18 10:02:05 PM  
Capitalism does not work if your population is not expanding.  Which is why the GOP hates immigrants: it foils their plans to destroy America.
 
2013-02-18 10:05:26 PM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


2/10.  I bet you started feeling cocky about your solid effort on the first two sentences only to slip on that last sentence.
 
2013-02-18 10:06:41 PM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.



"Only when we interbreed to the point that there are no distinguishable "races" will we achieve true "diversity" via a the miracle of a mongrelized monoculture".

Right?

Wait, there is "diversity" in a monoculture?
 
2013-02-18 10:07:06 PM  

MaxSupernova: super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.

2/10.  I bet you started feeling cocky about your solid effort on the first two sentences only to slip on that last sentence.


Racist...
 
2013-02-18 10:07:14 PM  
I always thought that the concerns about "overpopulation" were overblown hippie drivel and this pretty much confirms that.  The "issue" has disappeared overnight, just like the good ole ozone hole scare, and just like the global warming scare will at some point.
 
2013-02-18 10:07:33 PM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


Exactly, just look at Africa. Land of peace and love. Lol.
 
2013-02-18 10:08:03 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Capitalism does not work if your population is not expanding.  Which is why the GOP hates immigrants:


Lol, did you really think that through before you posted?

Seriously?
 
2013-02-18 10:08:21 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: 3D printing and private asteroid mining will save us.


Blah blah blah mental issues, blah blah blah professional help.
 
2013-02-18 10:09:09 PM  

stuhayes2010: exponential growth, how does it work?


Differently than population growth, which is slowing and likely to peak in a few decades given current trends.
 
2013-02-18 10:10:00 PM  
blah limited resources blah less pollution blah healthier population blah overpopulation blah science blah blah

/blah
 
2013-02-18 10:10:46 PM  
So what would be the optimal number of people on this planet?  We'd need a number large enough to improve and maintain our existing systems yet not so large that they consumed every last resource on Earth.

/been playing Civilization all weekend
 
2013-02-18 10:11:29 PM  
Potable water.
 
2013-02-18 10:12:00 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: So what would be the optimal number of people on this planet?  We'd need a number large enough to improve and maintain our existing systems yet not so large that they consumed every last resource on Earth.

/been playing Civilization all weekend


1 billionish.
 
2013-02-18 10:12:40 PM  

Earl of Chives: super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.

Exactly, just look at Africa. Land of peace and love. Lol.


Yes, the natives of south america hace always been such nice people who kill babies to the sun god
 
2013-02-18 10:13:02 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Capitalism does not work if your population is not expanding.  Which is why the GOP hates immigrants

abortions: it foils their plans to destroy America.
 
2013-02-18 10:13:10 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: So what would be the optimal number of people on this planet?


Your word 'optimal' needs further definition.  Too vague to respond to.

Depending on who you talk to, it ranges from zero to 'more the merrier'.
 
2013-02-18 10:13:34 PM  

HeadLever: Marcus Aurelius: Capitalism does not work if your population is not expanding.  Which is why the GOP hates immigrants:

Lol, did you really think that through before you posted?

Seriously?


Can you please point out exactly where I am mistaken?

And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.
 
2013-02-18 10:13:58 PM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


A lot of the classic 'brown people' donor countries are on the glidepath down, too.  Mexico is at '2.1' replacement level right now.  Turkey (Europe's analog through the 80s) is also at or even a little below 2.1.  Brazil is well below 2 at this point.  And they're all still falling, presumably until they get down to Italy/S.Korea/Japan levels.

giveitarest: Like most growth, world population is more likely logistics growth than exponential.  We may have passed the inflection point, which indicates population will level off around 12-13 billion.


Many demographers have the peak out at below 10bn, roughly the middle of this century.  The d/dx is steep.

Ed Willy: Don't forget the Japanese. Half the incentive for creating robots is so they can avoid having to open their borders to permanent immigration.


Japan is the country to watch, because they're the first down the path.  Despite arguably the most commercialized/advertised/consumerist society on earth, there's a whole growing generation of younger Japanese who are barely tied into the system (no real place for them) and decidedly anti-consumption.

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: The real secret is the way we're moving into a "post-scarcity" age, where people will only work if they want to.  Machines do things cheaply and efficiently, and fewer and fewer people have more than one child.


And we'll see how that works psychologically.  We've got subcultures where there's no cultural demand or outright need to work for sustenance.  The examples we have are housing projects/ghettos, council estates in the UK, first nations reserves, and the like.  As a species, we don't have a great track record of adapting to irrelevance.
 
2013-02-18 10:14:01 PM  

Earl of Chives: 1 billionish.


Considering advancing science and technology 1 to 3 billion is optimal and quite manageable. Over 5 is starting to push it, over 7 is really stressing it, and 10 billion our efficiency of management goes to the infinitesimal zero.
 
2013-02-18 10:14:20 PM  

red5ish: Potable water.


If only there was some sort of natural phenomena that would take sea water and make it fresh.......
 
2013-02-18 10:14:20 PM  
So, at least none of us here will have that problem, amirite?

/oh, thought I was on slashdot, never mind

//you want us to have kids? Then you're going to have to separate the idea of making a living from being productive because if the graphs we see are correct any amount of productivity increase you create now is going into someone else's pocket immediately, and that's no way to secure a future. It's not logical to breed when you know your just making serfs for someone else's amusement.
 
2013-02-18 10:14:44 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Marcus Aurelius: Capitalism does not work if your population is not expanding.  Which is why the GOP hates immigrants abortions: it foils their plans to destroy America.


Ignorance is bliss, my friend.

Bliss.
 
2013-02-18 10:14:46 PM  
888webtoday.com

Sperm cell +

upload.wikimedia.org

Egg cell +

2.bp.blogspot.com

Nurturers =

media.miamiherald.com

"Black" president

/Obama is a whitey
 
2013-02-18 10:16:20 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Can you please point out exactly where I am mistaken?


If you like ever expanding population in your neck of the woods, why not welcome in the immigrants with open arms?

And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.

What do green lights have to do with this argument?
 
2013-02-18 10:16:31 PM  

fusillade762: [farm4.staticflickr.com image 640x441]


If you're feeling down and out with what your life is all about - lift your head up high and blow your brains out.
 
2013-02-18 10:16:48 PM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


img835.imageshack.us

Approves.
 
2013-02-18 10:16:51 PM  

ChuDogg: If you look at current and projected water shortages its simple to see that over-population is a real problem and there are not enough resources to sustain our current global population, never mind an additional few billion.

Babyboomers not being able to retire to a jet setting life of luxory like medieval Royalty shouldn't be the arbitrator of policies.  Unfortunately it is and western civilization looks to be committing suicide because of it.


One more farker that pretends the great unwashed sets policies and guides the country. Be realistic, baby boomers are/were mostly worker bees paying their taxes and casting votes that didn't matter - government does pretty much what benefits the rich and powerful families that own big business. Just as you and I don't mean a hill of beans at the end of the day, the same it was for those people.

It is those of great wealth that need and want stupid hands to work in the factories, buy their goods and go kill people around the world for them. It benefits those wealthy, greedy immoral families who run and control the country. Parroting crap about baby boomers is ignorant. Many of those people never had anything like you enjoy in your life.

While you're busy pissing on baby boomers you forget how roads got built and buildings went up but most important you forget these are your parents and grand-parents. My sympathy to you for not being able to respect your elders.
 
2013-02-18 10:16:51 PM  

Amos Quito: [888webtoday.com image 280x425]

Sperm cell +

[upload.wikimedia.org image 206x237]

Egg cell +

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x284]

Nurturers =

[media.miamiherald.com image 316x516]

"Black" president

/Obama is a whitey


What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.
 
2013-02-18 10:17:17 PM  
Wait, you mean Ponzi schemes don't work if you don't have an ever-expanding base of new suckers? WHA?!?!?


/ok, technically it's a tontine insurance scam
 
2013-02-18 10:17:34 PM  
...  because the gheys
 
2013-02-18 10:17:36 PM  
When did "white and college educated" become a bad thing?
 
2013-02-18 10:18:01 PM  

BMFPitt: stuhayes2010: exponential growth, how does it work?

Differently than population growth, which is slowing and likely to peak in a few decades given current trends.


Literacy for girls, vaccination for childhood diseases, and wider access to various forms of birth control usually bring fertility rates down to replacement within a generation or two.

If momma can make her own money, and knows her babies aren't going to snuff it at a 50% rate before the age of three, she throttles back her breeding rate. Same goes for the men...most guys would prefer to support 3 kids instead of six. Just show him where the condoms are.
 
2013-02-18 10:18:01 PM  

Stone Meadow: Happy Hours: I'm sure we as a species will survive but we're going to have issues with population.

I see your...

[www.endangeredspecieshandbook.org image 394x263]

And raise you with what the UN actually thinks is going to happen...

[thehaberboschprocess.files.wordpress.com image 440x306]

IOW, we're going to top out at about 50% higher than we are now.

Scary graphs are scary?


Well, that is a longer term projection but it doesn't seem that unrealistic. I think there's probably an upper bound on life span and we're probably fairly close to it (just what I believe).

The graph I posted doesn't project as far into the future. But with recent (industrial age) growth trends you'd expect some issues.

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


Not sure if troll or just Poe's law in action..
 
2013-02-18 10:18:07 PM  

Ishkur: MugzyBrown: Actually the structure of the faulty economics (not capitalism) put in place by most western gov'ts is what needs constant growth. Capitalism does not.

Explain.

(keep in mind that Capitalism relies on scarcity to operate and will be naturally cast aside in the distant future anyway as we approach post-scarcity civilization)


I applaud you for always trying to explain economics to most of these people. You have a lot more patience than i.  They took maybe one macro course and then parrot the economic talking point (classical vs Keynesian)  of whichever side of the political spectrum they fall on. I gave up  a long time ago.
 
2013-02-18 10:19:07 PM  
Oh yes, we must force the poors to has more children so we can keep the unsustainable (tea tards love that word) inter-generational, pyramid scheme going a little longer.
 
2013-02-18 10:19:44 PM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


Wow- it's rare that I see a true 10/10 on the Troll-o-meter, but I think you may have managed it.  The only thing I might take off points for is lack of mention of the rise of womyn and how they'll overthrow the patriarchy through vagina power.
 
2013-02-18 10:19:49 PM  

studebaker hoch: When did "white and college educated" become a bad thing?


Since self-hating white people.
 
2013-02-18 10:20:28 PM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


That is a very good troll.  I'd give it a 7/10.
 
2013-02-18 10:21:38 PM  
Hey, super_grass, why don't you start the righteous stripping away of the oppressor's wealth and power with yourself?

Why do you hate the human race so much?

/who gives a sh*t what colour the outside is? we all bleed the same red stuff.
 
2013-02-18 10:22:45 PM  
The more of these miserable, flea bitten, nasty ass, over indulgent, perpetually adolescent, resource wasting humans there are on the planet, the more people there are literally standing on the face of what could be a beautiful, loving, planet-being that is crying because there are too many people standing on her magnificent face.  If more people would kill off more people or just die or suicide and let the intelligent, nurturing creatures like cats and dogs being to thrive, the Earth might be reborn with a renewed spirit of love, trust and respect for one another.  All characteristics absent from the human species.  I could see a world where all around are animals, caring for their young, teaching the next generation, helping others in need, and me.  Naked.
 
2013-02-18 10:22:49 PM  
What do you want? The prime child rearing generation right now is Y and they are stuck living with the parents that raised them because jobs that did pay a living wage were downsized and ship to china. So they can't afford an apartment, a car, or their own family.
 
2013-02-18 10:23:09 PM  

Kittypie070: Hey, super_grass, why don't you start the righteous stripping away of the oppressor's wealth and power with yourself?

Why do you hate the human race so much?

/who gives a sh*t what colour the outside is? we all bleed the same red stuff.


Not me. I bleed green.

/live long and prosper
//peace and long life
 
2013-02-18 10:23:11 PM  

basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue


Too bad you're a billion short
 
2013-02-18 10:23:26 PM  
Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people.  Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves.  They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care.  They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work.  No one should be surprised by this.
 
2013-02-18 10:24:42 PM  

trappedspirit: The more of these miserable, flea bitten, nasty ass, over indulgent, perpetually adolescent, resource wasting humans there are on the planet, the more people there are literally standing on the face of what could be a beautiful, loving, planet-being that is crying because there are too many people standing on her magnificent face.  If more people would kill off more people or just die or suicide and let the intelligent, nurturing creatures like cats and dogs being to thrive, the Earth might be reborn with a renewed spirit of love, trust and respect for one another.  All characteristics absent from the human species.  I could see a world where all around are animals, caring for their young, teaching the next generation, helping others in need, and me.  Naked.


That's some hot shiat right there.

i4.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-18 10:24:45 PM  

HeadLever: Marcus Aurelius: Can you please point out exactly where I am mistaken?

If you like ever expanding population in your neck of the woods, why not welcome in the immigrants with open arms?

And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.

What do green lights have to do with this argument?


It's how some Farker's measure penis size
 
2013-02-18 10:24:57 PM  

Maximer: Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


Those damn poor people. They catch all the breaks.

/"Lucky Ducky! Grr..."
 
2013-02-18 10:25:21 PM  
So in a few years we'll all be able to have super low wage workers because there will be so many uneducated nitwits, and plus us white folks will be able to start cashing in on all the discrimination, affirmative action and all that......right on.
 
2013-02-18 10:26:15 PM  
gods damn I fed the trolly troll.

shiat.
 
xcv
2013-02-18 10:26:47 PM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


I'm not even white and I mourn the loss of Young White Women that are in sharp decline against the world's total population.  Nearly every heterosexual man of every ethnicity prefers them, with increased competition for a shrinking supply, YWW are going to become an extremely valuable commodity on the planet, again. Wars were fought over them in the past, hopefully 3D printers and gene expression therapy will solve some of the demand.
 
2013-02-18 10:27:02 PM  

Acravius: Uncontrolled birth rate - Panic! 1910's to 1970's
One of the stated reason for German Expansionism and Japanese Expansionism was the need for space for population growth. Japan feared a 1975 population projection estimating 106 million people, and Germans we're augmenting their argument that Liebensraum (space for the growth of the Germanic peoples could be carved out of Eastern Europe). Population growth models for both were very close to being accurate (5% variance), but those economies absorbed and utilized all methodologies including massive trade in food for technology and wealth to power through their population growth and indstrial/economic development.

Industrialized Country Reproductive Rate Falls - Panic, 2000 to present
The graying of the industrialized countries does pose a challenge, but it isn't one that can't be overcome by proper planning.

The biggest real problem in America isn't a population issue directly, it is that we've built our primary infrastructure in the country flat and wide, instead of compactly/vertically. The 'burbs literally are consuming all of our resources, fuel to travel, supermarket/superstore sprawl, school bussing, home to work travel.
If we reformatted our cities to be vertical, NYC would only need to cover 1 square mile providing 5000 square ft of apartment space per family of 4 in 20,000 58 story buildings (allowing for 5600 58 story buildings for commercial/industrial and food production/distribution, hospitals, emergency services etc). If we were to take this compact approach, we could reduce the needed infrastructure of the city by nearly 10,000 combined miles of roads, subways, bus lines not to mention all of the other government investments like school properties, police, fire and emergency service vehicles, etc. Literally we could do away with supporting 90% of our current expenditure of time and money, by making our cities vertical instead of sprawling wastelands.
Imagine the exact same scenario in LA, and we are ta ...


LOL. How do you grow food to feed that population density, or get clean water into the system? Just tell farmers: You won't see people at all but just continue growing. Additionally the travel costs of food is going to be ridiculous.

Basically, we're farked unless we can find a cure for what ails us (Oil addiction).
 
2013-02-18 10:27:07 PM  
> giving $1,000 a month for a year to any mother willing to have a third child

$1,000 month for 12 months? That's it.

Hell no. Still nowhere near worth it.

$2,000 a month for 20 years.

And if you miss a single payment at any time during those 20 years, I'm dropping the future wage earner off at the nearest hospital for you to care for.
 
2013-02-18 10:27:53 PM  

Happy Hours: HeadLever: Marcus Aurelius: Can you please point out exactly where I am mistaken?

If you like ever expanding population in your neck of the woods, why not welcome in the immigrants with open arms?

And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.

What do green lights have to do with this argument?

It's how some Farker's measure penis size


Typical. They should just use meters, like me.
 
2013-02-18 10:28:08 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Maximer: Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.

Those damn poor people. They catch all the breaks.

/"Lucky Ducky! Grr..."


For many years I worked in a very poor area.  I started off as a progressive individual who felt that the poor in America were only poor because of their environment.  However, as I spent more time working in that area it became more and more obvious that their continued poverty was due to their own actions and poor choices.  My sympathy for them have diminished drastically.

Now, go to a third world country where they experience true poverty and that's a different story.  American "poverty" is unique.
 
2013-02-18 10:28:17 PM  
super_grass:
/Obama is a whitey

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.


Stop. Talking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
 
2013-02-18 10:28:27 PM  

Kittypie070: gods damn I fed the trolly troll.

shiat.


BAD KITTY! NO!
 
2013-02-18 10:28:38 PM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


Or ... brown people are breeding themselves into new depths of poverty and dragging the rest of the world down with them.  Lots of different ways you could look at it.  I'd say both ways of looking at it are shamefully racist.  Reproduction shouldn't be about different races trying to out produce the others.  That's such a retarded backward way of looking at the world, it's shocking to find a neanderthal still lurking around in 2013.
 
2013-02-18 10:30:05 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Those damn poor people. They catch all the breaks.

/"Lucky Ducky! Grr..."


Your snark aside, hopefully, even you would agree it is bad public policy to incentivise the creation of large families by poor people.
 
2013-02-18 10:30:27 PM  

Marcus Aurelius:
And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.


When I was in high school, I had an argument with a classmate in history class about the French Revolution. After I made what I felt was a really good point, the guy who was arguing with me asked me how many scout merit badges I had, and if I had attained the rank of Eagle Scout. The entire class started to laugh at this idiot, who honestly thought that his merit badges and Eagle Scout ranking could help him to win an argument. That was very similar to what you've done here. That kid was only 16 years old, though, so his ignorance is somewhat forgivable. How old are you?
 
2013-02-18 10:31:16 PM  

Maximer: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people.  Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves.  They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care.  They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work.  No one should be surprised by this.


If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.
 
2013-02-18 10:31:25 PM  

Maximer: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people.  Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves.  They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care.  They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work.  No one should be surprised by this.


It's as if you watched this movie already....

cdn-9.nflximg.com
 
2013-02-18 10:32:40 PM  

StopLurkListen: super_grass:
/Obama is a whitey

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.

Stop. Talking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule


i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-02-18 10:32:49 PM  

ghare: If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.


You do realize that most of america's poor is white, right?
 
2013-02-18 10:33:44 PM  

GAT_00: Koodz: I'm with Gat on this one.  I see white racists complain about being out-bred by the browns all the time and all I can think is, "You can't stand your own women enough to fark them.  It's almost like subconsciously you aren't convinced of your own superiority after all."

Have you ever seen an attractive white supremacist?


i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

/wat?
 
2013-02-18 10:34:01 PM  
Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.



So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!
 
2013-02-18 10:34:43 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: ghare: If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.

You do realize that most of america's poor is white, right?


And as an aside... I never mentioned any racial group in my comments.  Any preconceptions about which racial group I'm speaking of is really a reflection of the reader of my comments than it is about me.
 
2013-02-18 10:35:07 PM  

Happy Hours: Stone Meadow: Scary graphs are scary?

Well, that is a longer term projection but it doesn't seem that unrealistic. I think there's probably an upper bound on life span and we're probably fairly close to it (just what I believe).

The graph I posted doesn't project as far into the future. But with recent (industrial age) growth trends you'd expect some issues.


I was snarkily pointing out that posting such data that ends 15 years ago is irresponsible given the asymptotic appearance of the graph you posted, since we now know that population grow is collapsing everywhere...even in the developing world.

And while I agree that we will face some issues, I think they won't be the issues you cite. Rather than industrial age growth, I think what will happen is that as births continue to plummet we will see a concordant increase in lifespans that prevent any precipitous drop in population. Hardly a month goes by that one does not read of yet another major breakthrough in genomics, and sooner or later that pace of progress will result in significant extension of human lifespans.

I just hope I'm around to see it!
 
2013-02-18 10:35:56 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: ghare: If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.

You do realize that most of america's poor is white, right?


NO WAY! Only Those People are poor and take handouts, not US!

/Yeah, I know, I worked for an organization that provided services to the poor in rural America.
 
2013-02-18 10:36:35 PM  
Increasing your tax base without increasing global population?

WELCOME IMMIGRANTS.
 
2013-02-18 10:36:50 PM  

Maximer: Britney Spear's Speculum: ghare: If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.

You do realize that most of america's poor is white, right?

And as an aside... I never mentioned any racial group in my comments.  Any preconceptions about which racial group I'm speaking of is really a reflection of the reader of my comments than it is about me.


... there is no specific racial group I'm referencing.

/realize that first one didn't come out the way I intended after I posted it
 
2013-02-18 10:37:15 PM  
www.goobacks.com
 
2013-02-18 10:37:51 PM  
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-last-demographic s -immigration-20130208,0,4785134.story

When it comes to immigration, demographers have a general rule of thumb: Countries with fertility rates below the replacement level tend to attract immigrants, not send them. And so, when a country's fertility rate collapses, it often ceases to be a source of immigration.

Many Latin American countries have already fallen below the replacement level. It's not a coincidence that sub-replacement countries - such as Uruguay, Chile, Brazil and Costa Rica - send the U.S. barely any immigrants at all. The vast majority of our immigrants come from above-replacement countries, such as Honduras, El Salvador, Colombia, Guatemala and Mexico.

But even though they're still above-replacement, those countries are witnessing epic fertility declines too.

Consider Mexico, which over the last 30 years has sent roughly two-thirds of all the immigrants - legal and illegal - who came to the United States. In 1970, the Mexican fertility rate was 6.72. Today, it's hovering at the 2.1 mark - a drop of nearly 70% in just two generations. And it's still falling.

The result is that from 2005 to 2010, the U.S. received a net of zero immigrants from Mexico. Certainly some of that change can be attributed to the Great Recession, particularly the slowdown in construction and the housing industry. But we may also be witnessing the beginning of a structural change in our immigration relationship.

It's important to understand that Mexico's experience is not unique but rather is part of a global phenomenon. Today, 97% of the world's population lives in countries where the fertility rate is falling. And once a country's fertility rate starts dropping, it nearly always settles far below the replacement level. And because of this, most demographic models project that the world's population will peak sometime before the end of this century, and then begin contracting - for the first time since the Black Death ravaged Europe.


www.motherjones.com
 
2013-02-18 10:37:56 PM  
Those claiming that the worry about declining population is primarily related to race should take a look at worldwide growth rates - fertility is declining everywhere, not just in "white person world."  UN projections put peak population as happening sometime in the next 20-30 years or so, possibly more quickly than that.  Immigration can't make up the difference forever - indeed we're already seeing that in the US, with Mexican immigration dropping significantly due to a combination of the economic crisis, combined with rising living standards in Mexico (due in part to falling fertility rates).  I don't put a value judgment on whether declining populations worldwide will be bad or good, but it will certainly be different - it's probably never happened before (yeah, black death, etc., but plagues, famines, and so on generally only impacted one region at any given time), and certainly not voluntarily.  We're walking into uncharted territory here and I think it's a bit Pollyanna-ish to think that it's not going to cause major changes.  Change can be good, but it can also be bad - hopefully we'll get the good kind, but we should prepare for the bad, just in case.
 
2013-02-18 10:39:14 PM  
the fact that the corporate media lives off of corporate advertising purchases, which are tied to corporate profits, which are increased by lower wages, which are lowered by mass immigration from the third world, this is purely coincidental.

/total co-ink-e-dink
//go fark yerselves, online idiots
 
2013-02-18 10:40:15 PM  
Remember when overpopulation was going to kill us all?

Remember when HotAir was a credible source?

/me neither.
 
2013-02-18 10:40:15 PM  
Got snipped when I turned 18. We already pay people to have babies. It's not working out very well. Article is farking stupid.
 
2013-02-18 10:40:33 PM  

amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?


When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.
 
2013-02-18 10:40:58 PM  

mr lawson: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Those damn poor people. They catch all the breaks.

/"Lucky Ducky! Grr..."

Your snark aside, hopefully, even you would agree it is bad public policy to incentivise the creation of large families by poor people.


I think the creation of large families by poor people is going to happen whether they're incentivized or not. Be it from lack of education, lack of access to health care and contraception, or just a general fatalistic local culture, those kids are going to be born and likely end up in the same environment that birthed them. I find it hard to believe that anything but an extremely small subset of welfare and support recipients take their social service possibilities into account before deciding whether or not to have a child (or multiple for that matter).

"Come to bed, Terry. I want another extra hundred bucks a week from the welfare office."
"Oh baby. You know just what to say to turn me on."
 
2013-02-18 10:42:50 PM  
www.kellyocg.com

media.economist.com
 
2013-02-18 10:43:18 PM  

Elmo Jones: When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.


So, pretty much everyone then, right?
 
2013-02-18 10:44:21 PM  

Elmo Jones: amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?

When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.


How far back do we get to go? I was never a slave nor a slaveowner, but my ancestors have been both. What's the statute of limitations for playing the victim card for people who died generations before you were born?
 
2013-02-18 10:44:53 PM  

xcv: I'm not even white and I mourn the loss of Young White Women that are in sharp decline against the world's total population. Nearly every heterosexual man of every ethnicity prefers them, with increased competition for a shrinking supply, YWW are going to become an extremely valuable commodity on the planet, again. Wars were fought over them in the past, hopefully 3D printers and gene expression therapy will solve some of the demand.


Cool More Hot Latinas FOR ME!


0.tqn.com

us.cdn001.fansshare.com
cdn01.cdn.egotastic.com

I welcome my new Minority overlords, wash me and send me to their room
 
2013-02-18 10:45:59 PM  

HeadLever: Elmo Jones: When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

So, pretty much everyone then, right?


My ancestors were neanderthals and you people murdered them all.
 
2013-02-18 10:46:40 PM  

HeadLever: Elmo Jones: When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

So, pretty much everyone then, right?


No, no.  You don't understand.  All the other periods of enslavement, brutalization, and dehumanization that happened to Europeans don't count.  Oh, and those pesky Native Americans need to stop biatching about genocide.  biatches.

/white
//native american
///who am i?
 
2013-02-18 10:46:41 PM  
StopLurkListen

Most fertile, please.
 
2013-02-18 10:48:08 PM  

ghare: Kittypie070: gods damn I fed the trolly troll.

shiat.


BAD KITTY! NO!


www.pawcurious.com
/yup
 
2013-02-18 10:48:13 PM  

untaken_name: How far back do we get to go?


You're the one anxious to play the oppressed white male card.  You tell us.
 
2013-02-18 10:48:18 PM  

ParadisePornoTheater: Because more people are smart enough to realize having kids may not be worth it?  Even if (not "after") they grow up and leave home?

Anyone else who can take the risk ... my hat's off to you.  Mean it.


As someone who's taken that risk (and just got done playing a round of Age of Empires II with my kiddo) I can say that if you are the type that...

 -Gives up when things start getting hard (or whiny).
 -Value being "right" over getting good results
 -Can't put up with short term discomfort for long term success.

 Then having a kid isn't for you. But if you can, even if that's all you do (the above) your kid can still turn out pretty damn well provided you have even basic decency.

/that's not counting the genetic dice, can't help those.
 
2013-02-18 10:48:25 PM  

untaken_name: Elmo Jones: amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?

When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

How far back do we get to go? I was never a slave nor a slaveowner, but my ancestors have been both. What's the statute of limitations for playing the victim card for people who died generations before you were born?


That's a good question.  How about great grandma?  I'm feeling pretty entitled and emotionally damaged right now.
 
2013-02-18 10:49:40 PM  

Skyrmion: kg2095: basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue

It's possible to run out of people in a typical human life span. If for some reason no new people were made from now then there would be none of us left in 100 years.

We could do even better with the proper application of nuclear weaponry.


But then we may have hideous mutants among the survivors.
 
2013-02-18 10:50:07 PM  

kg2095: basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue

It's possible to run out of people in a typical human life span. If for some reason no new people were made from now then there would be none of us left in 100 years.


Ah, the Children of Men future.
 
2013-02-18 10:51:41 PM  

Ishkur: Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.

The solution, then, is not the keep increasing the population for economic prosperity's sake, but to throw away Capitalism entirely and adopt a new economic metric that doesn't rely on growth and profit as the be-all and end-all of human endeavor.

We have to change our priorities here.


Came here to say this. This isn't for the taxes it's for the credit cards.
 
2013-02-18 10:53:20 PM  

Zombie Butler: Came here to say this. This isn't for the taxes it's for the credit cards.


Problem is, what do you replace it with?  All economic models have their own sets of pitfalls.
 
2013-02-18 10:55:30 PM  

Happy Hours: Dumski: From the Wikipedia article on ZPG (Zero Population Growth)

In the late 1960s ZPG became a big political movement in the U.S. and parts of Europe, with strong links to environmentalism and feminism. Yale University was a stronghold of the ZPG activists who believed "that a constantly increasing population is responsible for many of our problems: pollution, violence, loss of values and of individual privacy."[8] Founding fathers of the movement were Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb, and Thomas Eisner. Ehrlich stated: "The mother of the year should be a sterlized woman with two adopted children."

My father was an OB/GYN in the '60s and 70's. I remember him wearing a ZPG button on his lab coat.
That was the thinking post baby boom, and he was a supporter of that cause. Geez Dad, what a waste of time.

Well, when you base retirement plans on Ponzi schemes you need more growth.

I'm not saying there's not room for more growth, but have you seen a graph of human population growth?

[www.endangeredspecieshandbook.org image 394x263]

Population is a huge concern whether it's not having enough workers to support the old folks or so many people that resources like food, water and energy because a problem not to mention environmental concerns.

I'm sure we as a species will survive but we're going to have issues with population.


Google maintains a very nice set of stats on this subject.
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_#!ctype=l& st rail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false& rdim=region&ifdim=region&tdim=true&hl=en_US&dl=en_US&ind=false

I believe the world population is set to peak in 2050 or so.  What's remarkable is just how quickly certain countries have seen their fertility rate plunge.  Ones you wouldn't suspect.  For instance Iran and Brazil.
 
2013-02-18 10:55:44 PM  
super_grass:

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.


Hmmm... Let's see...

Weak-assed coffee?

Brawndo?

Garbage disposal lubricant?
 
2013-02-18 10:56:06 PM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


It's the old real estate adage: "Location, Location, Location".
 
2013-02-18 10:58:49 PM  
Good. The Earth needs less idiotic crotchfruit.
 
2013-02-18 11:01:17 PM  

Elmo Jones: amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?

When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.


And that's the attitude that stops race relations in this country from getting anywhere. Maybe if everyone can just get over historical wrongs they weren't alive for, progress could be made.
 
2013-02-18 11:02:55 PM  

Ishkur: Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism only works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.

The solution, then, is not the keep increasing the population for economic prosperity's sake, but to throw away Capitalism entirely and adopt a new economic metric that doesn't rely on growth and profit as the be-all and end-all of human endeavor.

We have to change our priorities here.


The way we practice capitalism, yes. Capitalism in and of itself is not the problem. It may not be the best way of dealing with economics (far too open to corruption and depletion of resources to name just two flaws with Capitalism), but it's certainly the best we have right now. Until we have a new economic model, we can't throw out the current one.
 
2013-02-18 11:08:28 PM  

StopLurkListen: [www.kellyocg.com image 850x447]

[media.economist.com image 531x4Niger

Niger please

 
2013-02-18 11:08:48 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: Elmo Jones: amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?

When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

And that's the attitude that stops race relations in this country from getting anywhere. Maybe if everyone can just get over historical wrongs they weren't alive for, progress could be made.


They'd rather have someone or something else to blame for where they are in life. Just like every single other person on the planet. Racism is still alive and well, so they have a point, but I feel like the wrong angles end up getting attacked. The cure for racism is positive exposure.
 
2013-02-18 11:08:51 PM  

jaytkay: untaken_name: How far back do we get to go?

You're the one anxious to play the oppressed white male card.  You tell us.


No, I was the one responding to the person anxious to play the "many hundred years ago my ancestors were oppressed so pay me" card. Get your tropes straight.
 
2013-02-18 11:09:27 PM  
As far back as you can name your ancestors, or, until jackasses stop using the phrase "race card."

/some of my best friends are white
 
2013-02-18 11:10:16 PM  

Maximer: untaken_name: Elmo Jones: amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?

When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

How far back do we get to go? I was never a slave nor a slaveowner, but my ancestors have been both. What's the statute of limitations for playing the victim card for people who died generations before you were born?

That's a good question.  How about great grandma?  I'm feeling pretty entitled and emotionally damaged right now.


My great grandma got smallpox from the white man's blankets. Ok, that might have been great great grandma, my people's oral history tradition ain't so clear. What do I win?
 
2013-02-18 11:11:10 PM  

Amos Quito: super_grass:

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.

Hmmm... Let's see...

Weak-assed coffee?

Brawndo?

Garbage disposal lubricant?


It's called an Americano. Assuming that by "coffee" you mean "espresso", because what else could you mean?
 
2013-02-18 11:13:27 PM  

Fubini: Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.


I hate to admit it, but THIS.

You know, my grandparents as well as the other Junkee's grandparents are managing to their live old-aged lives better than any of their grandchildren are living our young lives.  They all have pensions, Social Security, savings, homes paid for, etc.  Not a single one of them had student loan debt or struggled to pay for childcare ($1,325/month here in Los Angeles).  They were able to buy decent homes on a single income rather than struggle to afford a mortgage on two incomes.
 
2013-02-18 11:16:50 PM  

untaken_name: Amos Quito: super_grass:

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.

Hmmm... Let's see...

Weak-assed coffee?

Brawndo?

Garbage disposal lubricant?

It's called an Americano. Assuming that by "coffee" you mean "espresso", because what else could you mean?



Americano Espresso.

authortonypiazza.files.wordpress.com

Don't leave home without it.
 
2013-02-18 11:16:52 PM  

untaken_name: Amos Quito: super_grass:

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.

Hmmm... Let's see...

Weak-assed coffee?

Brawndo?

Garbage disposal lubricant?

It's called an Americano. Assuming that by "coffee" you mean "espresso", because what else could you mean?


I want an Americano right now... Basically caramel and coffee in a glass with no extra calories. Mmmmm...

/God bless the Turks.
 
2013-02-18 11:21:11 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: Elmo Jones: amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?

When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

And that's the attitude that stops race relations in this country from getting anywhere. Maybe if everyone can just get over historical wrongs they weren't alive for, progress could be made.


Well, I'm about as white as you can get.

My ancestors include Irish who were brought to North America against their will, and my great-grandparents escaped from the Ukraine during the 1917 revolution, changed their names, and refused to talk about the old country, because of how terrible it was for them.

It's interesting, but because it happened long before I was born, has next to no influence on how I live my life.

And how can anyone know what will happen to their descendants 300 years from now?
 
2013-02-18 11:23:18 PM  

Elmo Jones: As far back as you can name your ancestors, or, until jackasses stop using the phrase "race card."

/some of my best friends are white


Know how I know you're racist?
 
2013-02-18 11:25:00 PM  

FizixJunkee: Fubini: Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.

I hate to admit it, but THIS.

You know, my grandparents as well as the other Junkee's grandparents are managing to their live old-aged lives better than any of their grandchildren are living our young lives.  They all have pensions, Social Security, savings, homes paid for, etc.  Not a single one of them had student loan debt or struggled to pay for childcare ($1,325/month here in Los Angeles).  They were able to buy decent homes on a single income rather than struggle to afford a mortgage on two incomes.


The Coming Age War
 
2013-02-18 11:25:21 PM  

rustypouch: WTFdoesitmatter: Elmo Jones: amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?

When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

And that's the attitude that stops race relations in this country from getting anywhere. Maybe if everyone can just get over historical wrongs they weren't alive for, progress could be made.

Well, I'm about as white as you can get.

My ancestors include Irish who were brought to North America against their will, and my great-grandparents escaped from the Ukraine during the 1917 revolution, changed their names, and refused to talk about the old country, because of how terrible it was for them.

It's interesting, but because it happened long before I was born, has next to no influence on how I live my life.

And how can anyone know what will happen to their descendants 300 years from now?


Whine about it in advance.

/It's a time-tested method, and the only way to be sure
 
2013-02-18 11:25:50 PM  

Atomic Spunk: Open your legs, ladies. I'm here to help the country.


"Lay back and think of... What country is this?"
"Luxembourg."
"Lay back and think of Luxembourg."

// booyah.
/// hubba.
 
2013-02-18 11:26:27 PM  
ITT idiots who honestly believe that the past has no bearing on their lives now.

/and economic systems that rely on perpetual growth are incorrect and unsustainable
 
2013-02-18 11:27:20 PM  

Maximer: Know how I know you're racist?


Is it the shoes?
 
2013-02-18 11:27:32 PM  

mr lawson: Ishkur: MugzyBrown: Actually the structure of the faulty economics (not capitalism) put in place by most western gov'ts is what needs constant growth. Capitalism does not.

Explain.

(keep in mind that Capitalism relies on scarcity to operate and will be naturally cast aside in the distant future anyway as we approach post-scarcity civilization)

I applaud you for always trying to explain economics to most of these people. You have a lot more patience than i.  They took maybe one macro course and then parrot the economic talking point (classical vs Keynesian)  of whichever side of the political spectrum they fall on. I gave up  a long time ago.


Says the guy that quotes Breitbart as evidence in arguments.
 
2013-02-18 11:28:00 PM  

Ishkur: Yes, but the reasons are idiotic: They're not moral, or ethical, or survival, or even rational.

They're economic.

And the only reason why they're economic is because Capitalism the pyramid schemes set up by the governmentonly works under a policy of constant growth which simply is not possible in a finite system.



FTFY, dummy
 
2013-02-18 11:28:04 PM  

Elmo Jones: Maximer: Know how I know you're racist?

Is it the shoes?


No.  The sunglasses.

/obviously
 
2013-02-18 11:28:27 PM  

HeadLever: Problem is, what do you replace it with?


Well, the Age of Post-Scarcity is coming, and it will be a slow burn over a couple hundred years rather than a complete overhaul within a single generation, which is how all economic systems transform into new ones (ie: Manorialism--->Mercantilism--->Capitalism). And it's going to start with the biggest issue of the 21st century (besides overpopulation, global warming, and dwindling resources): Employment.

As automation replaces the jobs that humans used to do, we're going to see an increasing amount of society capable of running itself. And when it gets to a point where only a fraction of full-time jobs exist and the system is capable of supporting up to 80% unemployment without totally collapsing1.

Why do we work? To make money, obviously. Why do we want to make money? So we can buy stuff that makes our lives more comfortable. Why does this stuff cost money? Because there is only so much of it about. If there's not enough of something, it has value. It's worth something. Rarity is expensive. Everything abundant is worthless. It is free. I'll come back to this point later.

10,000 years ago, 100% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the tribe.
5,000 years ago, 80% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the city-state.
1,000 years ago, 60% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the kingdom.
200 years ago, 40% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the country.
Today, less than 10% of our population actively work on providing enough food for the rest of us.

This level of efficiency will soon spread to all industries. Automation, industrial processes, manufacturing and mass production will provide for all, with very little human labor required. Some companies are already so streamlined and efficient that they can execute business operations and move product with a skeleton force that keeps shrinking. Additionally, with service-oriented architecture, one man can run a complete business all by himself without the need for employees. His business operations are modular -- he hires labor when needed....part-time, temporary, contract work.

So what then? What happens when a businesses can be run perfectly fine without employees? Without payroll? Without you? What happens when one man can do the job of one million (like farmers do now)?

We are rapidly approaching that age. The age of post-scarcity and post-capitalism.

We've seen what happens to media (cf. internet) when it reaches a state of absolute abundance -- it becomes worthless. It becomes free. It becomes accessible to everyone everywhere, equally, all the time. Now stretch this same paradigm across all sectors, all industries, all segments of human consumption. What happens?

Maintenance and upkeep of our system is being handled by fewer and fewer personnel. Automation makes things cheaper, more efficient, more abundant. Without scarcity, there is no value. No value, no cost. No cost, no need to pay for it. And if you don't need to pay for anything, then why need money? And if you don't need money, then why work?

Since Capitalism is a resource-based system that requires scarcity to operate, it will ultimately be discarded -- abundance makes it meaningless. What will people live/work for then? Since everything is taken care of, social acceptance within a peer group and self-actualization become prime goals (youtube is a perfect example of this: When people can't find work, they invent their own things to do...even if its just dumb Gangnam Style and Harlem Shake parodies).

I like to envision a Star Trekian future where the essential work (the 2%ers) is handled by different segments of the population during different stages of their lives, like shifts. It would be a mandatory service thing (ie: every 10 years, you must put in six months of labor) that rotates through the populace. So in an average life, most people would only work about 6000 hours. The rest of their lives they do whatever they like.

But I can't see any of this being a feasible reality for another century or so, when technology/AI improves and money becomes even more of an abstraction than it is now. But the key economic indicator is scarcity: Things have value because they are rare. We obtain them by exchanging them with other rare/finite things, namely currency. Once we get over this notion and officially annihilate scarcity (and the need to work for it), then Capitalism will be truly dead and done away with.

But it will come naturally, through social and technological progress, not through revolution. And it will come gradually, over the course of several generations. Not all at once, and certainly not within our lifetimes.

But before all that, we have to evaluate what we live and work for, and why. And we must come to accept the notion that a life of work isn't our destiny (even if we want it). We must evolve beyond the the idea that our lives are governed by the salary and the paycheck.

That might be a difficult thing to do.

/1 You might think this will never be possible, but we're already almost there. Society is humming along now taking care of a great number of people who don't contribute any value to the system: The very poor, the very rich, the handicapped, the disabled, the sick, the elderly, children, students, and the unemployed, underemployed and unemployable are all being supported quite comfortably by the people who are..... and somehow this is not a net negative on society.
 
2013-02-18 11:28:57 PM  
Google up "The Pivot of Civilization" by Margaret Sanger. You'll get an interesting backstory about the theory of overpopulation,  eugenics, abortion and birth control, Planned Parenthood, and -- believe it or not -- the New World Order. The gist of the argument is that birth rates are too high among the wrong sorts of people, and too low among the better classes. But don't take my word for it. Google.
 
2013-02-18 11:30:33 PM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


You know how I know that you know nothing about history?
 
2013-02-18 11:30:39 PM  
This is just further proof that if you want something totally farked up, let the government run it.

cairoscene.com
 
2013-02-18 11:30:51 PM  

Mentat: The biggest side effect of the population leveling off is that once the baby boomers die off, there will be a massive world-wide worker shortage.  Countries will be fighting to let immigrants in.  It will be the greatest boon to the Middle Class since the Black Death.


Especially when the immigrants bring some plague with them.
 
2013-02-18 11:31:18 PM  

Techhell: Capitalism in and of itself is not the problem. It may not be the best way of dealing with economics (far too open to corruption and depletion of resources to name just two flaws with Capitalism), but it's certainly the best we have right now.


Capitalism is a tool, like a hammer, and like any hammer you can use it to build a house or bash someone's skull in. Whichever way depends on the government system it's under. Capitalism's goal is to amass capital (ie: the means of production), and it considers all things expendable -- including human life -- in pursuit of this aim. That makes it utterly and inhumanly amoral.

People seem to always forget this: Capitalism has absolutely no ethical value whatsoever. It will push its own mother into the street to pick up a nickel, but it will also feed the poor for a tax writeoff.

Capitalism is good. Too much Capitalism is farking scary.
 
2013-02-18 11:31:56 PM  

Happy Hours: I'm not saying there's not room for more growth, but have you seen a graph of human population growth?

Population is a huge concern whether it's not having enough workers to support the old folks or so many people that resources like food, water and energy because a problem not to mention environmental concerns


Why are we still using systems (political, economic, social) designed when there were only a billion people worldwide?

They haven't scaled so well.
 
2013-02-18 11:32:35 PM  

Techhell: The way we practice capitalism, yes. Capitalism in and of itself is not the problem.


No, really, it doesn't work without growth.  The general expectation that investing existing capital in something, along with labor/energy/other inputs, will produce more than the invested capital (i.e., produce a return, if not a guarantee, statistically more often than not) works in a growth environment.  You're just debating who gets what split of the spoils.  In a steady-state or shrinking environment, any return on capital squeezes out labor entirely (since there isn't any general growth we're splitting, if the capital expects some growth on investment it has to come from labor or the environment).

Now there's the question of how far into fictional/notional growth we can go, call it growth, and keep the game going.  Japan is trying that one right now (devaluing currency).  That's ended up badly before (hyperinflation episodes), but we'll see how the post-growth-era Japanese do with it.
 
2013-02-18 11:39:40 PM  
Right, have kids I can't afford with women who won't fark me anyway.
 
2013-02-18 11:45:48 PM  

HeadLever: Zombie Butler: Came here to say this. This isn't for the taxes it's for the credit cards.

Problem is, what do you replace it with?  All economic models have their own sets of pitfalls.


Gah, just one more article before I do all the little bits you have to do before the work week begins I said. Just a quick comment I said (smacks forehead).

Tough one, really, and not something I've fully tackled in my own philosophy.  I've read a lot on the topic and I still haven't come to a conclusion.
A resource-based economy might be the way to go but just like the old communist system, if abundance isn't available, the quartermaster will have all of the power. Not the most ideal situation. Also, someone somewhere will decide what gets made, who decides this?  Is it democratic? Can it be subverted?

Capitalism it's self has some egalitarian features.but tends towards monopolies that have no investment in the well-being of human beings or our finite earth.

Socialism with free-market features might be a good stepping stone. Protection for the earth and people with free market able to function.  However, the two systems are disparate in their very nature, so eventually one would subvert the other (honestly this is why I see civil war in China eventually).

Communism, unless it has a strong manufacturing base, and a strong democratic tradition, is doomed because of the quartermaster. Although it seems to work very well for small communities (see Kibbutz).

Any form of government which is set up to keep the elite in power is right out.  Sorry, they all tend to forget they put on their pants one leg at a time like the rest of us. Kingdoms, oligarchies, Corporatism.

You're right, they all have their pitfalls. As I said, I haven't settled on one and considering my current thoughts I might never settle on one.  It's just that I see us (humans) running toward this terrible cliff and it's the system we live in that's the main horse on the carriage.  Sorry, I can't give you a more definitive answer.
 
2013-02-18 11:47:29 PM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


Lebensraum, baby, Lebensraum.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-18 11:47:52 PM  

Acravius: If we reformatted our cities to be vertical, NYC would only need to cover 1 square mile providing 5000 square ft of apartment space per family of 4 in 20,000 58 story buildings (allowing for 5600 58 story buildings for commercial/industrial and food production/distribution, hospitals, emergency services etc). If we were to take this compact approach, we could reduce the needed infrastructure of the city by nearly 10,000 combined miles of roads, subways, bus lines not to mention all of the other government investments like school properties, police, fire and emergency service vehicles, etc. Literally we could do away with supporting 90% of our current expenditure of time and money, by making our cities vertical instead of sprawling wastelands.




So, Mega-City Blocks? I don't want to live in that future...
 
2013-02-18 11:48:49 PM  

Happy Hours: super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.

Not sure if troll or just Poe's law in action..


THIS.

/Or stupid. That's always an option.
 
2013-02-18 11:48:56 PM  
The other part of the falling fertility rate is that it might, very soon, be balanced out by medical technology allowing people to live to 200 years old, or some ridiculous number.  It sounds like science fiction, but genetics researchers have already doubled the lifespan of creatures from flatworms to rats.  I'm betting they'll get to humans before long.

Fewer people, but we all get to live biblical lifespans?  I'm cool with that.
 
2013-02-18 11:50:09 PM  

lolpix: The gist of the argument is that birth rates are too high among the wrong sorts of people, and too low among the better classes.


The difference between the two is that one group puts thought into the consequences and results of reproduction, the other (for the most part) simply farks and leaves it to chance.
 
2013-02-18 11:50:16 PM  
Remember when the [exaggeratedoversimplification of  an issue]? Well, now [oversimplification of a conflicting viewpoint]!
 
2013-02-18 11:56:23 PM  

Mentat: The biggest side effect of the population leveling off is that once the baby boomers die off, there will be a massive world-wide worker shortage.  Countries will be fighting to let immigrants in.  It will be the greatest boon to the Middle Class since the Black Death.


I've been saying for year that the only way boomers will have enough people to wipe their butts and change their bedpans is if the illegals all have large catholic families, no way in hell their grandkids and great grandkids are going to want those jobs. I've also been saying for over a decade that H1B is nothing for competent IT folks to fear, some of my best coworkers are former H1B holders, much better for me that they're here working with me than in India working for an outsourcing firm at Indian wages.
 
2013-02-18 11:57:30 PM  

Ishkur: You might think this will never be possible, but we're already almost there. Society is humming along now taking care of a great number of people who don't contribute any value to the system: The very poor, the very rich, the handicapped, the disabled, the sick, the elderly, children, students, and the unemployed, underemployed and unemployable are all being supported quite comfortably by the people who are..... and somehow this is not a net negative on society.


Economically, society can handle it.  Culturally, not so much.  Again, look to the subcultures where we're well along the road to 'comfortably sustained'.  HUD housing projects, native reservations, and the hundreds of rural trailer courts where the majority of residents are on Social Security Disability checks. So far, anyway, it follows a very common pathology.  People don't say, "gee, I don't have to worry about food, I'm going to spend time with loved ones, pick my banjo, read all of Shakespeare, and learn all the kanji" (as I desperately want to believe I'd say if I were unemployed) in that situation.  They start huffing glue and shooting each other over rims and generally become listless Jerry Springer addicts.
 
2013-02-18 11:57:36 PM  
The Wall Street "We Hate Immigrants" Journal was whining about global population decline last week.  "We'll spend too much on health care" seemed to be the major issue.
 
2013-02-18 11:57:39 PM  

Atomic Spunk: Open your legs, ladies. I'm here to help the country.


What opening your legs for atomic spunk might look like
weeklyworldnews.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-02-18 11:59:27 PM  

Dafatone: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.

This.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal recently that began by saying "hey, the middle class is vanishing because of birth rates!  Let's use 'white and college educated' as a stand-in for middle class, because that's what we think when we think middle class."

fark the WSJ and fark this line of thinking.


I read that article also.  While starting off with whitey as the ideal sample was very poor taste, he did go on to talk about fertility rates of all Americans.  The rates were dropping among minorities as well.  He even talked about how the fertility rates of the nations have been sending most of our immigrants recently are also seeing fertility rates on the decline.
 
2013-02-18 11:59:59 PM  
The great news?

As evidenced by this thread, idiots are not reproducing.

The first wife had three.

Working on a couple of caddies with the second.
 
2013-02-19 12:02:15 AM  

GAT_00: Koodz: I'm with Gat on this one.  I see white racists complain about being out-bred by the browns all the time and all I can think is, "You can't stand your own women enough to fark them.  It's almost like subconsciously you aren't convinced of your own superiority after all."

Have you ever seen an attractive white supremacist?


Well, Hitler did have those puppy dog eyes.

/NTTIAWYT
//o wait yes there is
 
2013-02-19 12:08:29 AM  

Amos Quito: super_grass:

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.

Hmmm... Let's see...

Weak-assed coffee?

Brawndo?

Garbage disposal lubricant?


Is weak coffee "coffee?"  Or "water?"

Though, I would have gone with 50/50 coffee and milk.  I like lattes.
 
2013-02-19 12:09:36 AM  

basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue


you must have fail at math...  Yes, 6 Billion is a lot BUT there's this thing call death. Imagine if no one procreates.. all 6 B will be gone in a lil over a 100 years.
 
2013-02-19 12:11:26 AM  

GAT_00: Koodz: I'm with Gat on this one.  I see white racists complain about being out-bred by the browns all the time and all I can think is, "You can't stand your own women enough to fark them.  It's almost like subconsciously you aren't convinced of your own superiority after all."

Have you ever seen an attractive white supremacist?


well some of the Fox news anchors are pretty attractive..   :)
 
2013-02-19 12:12:40 AM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


Ha ha, that's some koolaid... cause we all know hate is only found among white societies, all others are the Garden of Eden compared to civilization...
 
2013-02-19 12:14:01 AM  
Anyone know of any economists who are modeling alleged post-scarcity societies by looking at sub-sets of current societies? It seems like we have some fiction, some hypothetical notions, and some anecdotes. Are there any data?
 
2013-02-19 12:14:47 AM  

FizixJunkee: Fubini: Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.

I hate to admit it, but THIS.

You know, my grandparents as well as the other Junkee's grandparents are managing to their live old-aged lives better than any of their grandchildren are living our young lives.  They all have pensions, Social Security, savings, homes paid for, etc.  Not a single one of them had student loan debt or struggled to pay for childcare ($1,325/month here in Los Angeles).  They were able to buy decent homes on a single income rather than struggle to afford a mortgage on two incomes.


Your problem is that you're in CA, the most expensive place in America.  If I was in the midwest, I'd be able to buy a house with spare cash 7 years after I get out of school.  If I had gone to the Pacific Northwest, I'd have 0 student debt, a nice car (that would be paid off in 6 months), my own apartment, and $40K a year in surplus to spend on whatever I wanted.  But I'm in the Bay Area limping along paycheck to paycheck, spending the next 3-5 years paying off the $40K in debt I had coming out of school (and that's assuming that the company doesn't fold.  If it does, I'm utterly farked), and knowing that I will never, ever be able to afford a house.

/Mind you, I'm happy I'm here, since I hate working at big, slow corporations, but it does make my financial state precarious.
 
2013-02-19 12:16:50 AM  
It's not that we have too few people, there are just too few people who are like me.  Educated, affluent, stable, productive 1st world people are rare.  There are tons of uneducated poor people from the backward parts of the world (including parts of my own country).
 
2013-02-19 12:16:55 AM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: So what would be the optimal number of people on this planet?  We'd need a number large enough to improve and maintain our existing systems yet not so large that they consumed every last resource on Earth.

/been playing Civilization all weekend


depends on consumption level. If everyone lives like an American I would say less than 1 Billion for sustainability. If all 7 Billion live like a typical American man, woman and child than the Earth is FARKED!
 
2013-02-19 12:17:42 AM  

LadySusan: Anyone know of any economists who are modeling alleged post-scarcity societies by looking at sub-sets of current societies? It seems like we have some fiction, some hypothetical notions, and some anecdotes. Are there any data?


Excellent question, I don't have any data but I'd love to see some. With that I'm out, work week calls.
 
2013-02-19 12:18:20 AM  

halfof33: The great news?

As evidenced by this thread, idiots are not reproducing.

The first wife had three.

Working on a couple of caddies with the second.


Yup, there is no way we can overpopulate the planet. Feel free to have as many kids as you want. There are an infinite number of resources.
 
2013-02-19 12:20:28 AM  

Ishkur: Without scarcity, there is no value. No value, no cost.


Which is why diamonds are so cheap.

Do you know what K-Mart, Wal-Mart, etc do with the tennis shoes that they don't sell?  They shred them and throw them away.  This is how they can justify selling $2 shoes for $100 a pair.  Artifical scarcity.

As long as people exist to limit the supply we'll never reach "post scarcity."  We'll shred all the shoes, if we have to.  Dig ditches to fill them back up.

Capitilism will never die.
 
2013-02-19 12:21:02 AM  

machoprogrammer: halfof33: The great news?

As evidenced by this thread, idiots are not reproducing.

The first wife had three.

Working on a couple of caddies with the second.

Yup, there is no way we can overpopulate the planet. Feel free to have as many kids as you want. There are an infinite number of resources.


lolz, can I have as many as Muhammad in Somalia? Please?
 
2013-02-19 12:21:47 AM  

LoneWolf343: GAT_00: Koodz: I'm with Gat on this one.  I see white racists complain about being out-bred by the browns all the time and all I can think is, "You can't stand your own women enough to fark them.  It's almost like subconsciously you aren't convinced of your own superiority after all."

Have you ever seen an attractive white supremacist?

Well, Hitler did have those puppy dog eyes.

/NTTIAWYT
//o wait yes there is


I don't want no mud grandbabies, so I've hired security
img151.imageshack.us
 
2013-02-19 12:22:25 AM  
Came for Idiocracy pictures. Leaving disappointed.
 
2013-02-19 12:23:07 AM  

Ishkur: 10,000 years ago, 100% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the tribe.
5,000 years ago, 80% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the city-state.
1,000 years ago, 60% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the kingdom.
200 years ago, 40% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the country.
Today, less than 10% of our population actively work on providing enough food for the rest of us.

This level of efficiency will soon spread to all industries. Automation, industrial processes, manufacturing and mass production will provide for all, with very little human labor required. Some companies are already so streamlined and efficient that they can execute business operations and move product with a skeleton force that keeps shrinking. Additionally, with service-oriented architecture, one man can run a complete business all by himself without the need for employees. His business operations are modular -- he hires labor when needed....part-time, temporary, contract work.

So what then? What happens when a businesses can be run perfectly fine without employees? Without payroll? Without you? What happens when one man can do the job of one million (like farmers do now)?

We are rapidly approaching that age. The age of post-scarcity and post-capitalism.


Very interesting post. Interesting to see trends being extrapolated.

Question: What about the human need to be... engaged in doing something? I'm convinced that humans need to operate under some stress, with some exertion. That humans operate best under eustress - positive stress. They've evolved from hunter gatherers and farmers. That ancient mechanism still is embedded in them.

I see some celebrities self-destructing because they have no purpose in life, no need to work, to follow some schedule. The circadian rhythms of life force some structure, the rising of the sun, the change of seasons. Celebrities who succeed are the ones who find a new purpose. The ones just chasing the next high are the ones who implode, like a character in a sci-fi novel who has a jack plugged into his/her brain's pleasure center, constantly stimulating it, forgetting to eat or get out of one's excrement.

In the movie "The Matrix", they talked about a perfect world being imposed on humans, but the human brain kept rejecting it. I think there might be some real-world truth to that.
 
2013-02-19 12:25:09 AM  

Zombie Butler: Capitalism it's self has some egalitarian features.but tends towards monopolies that have no investment in the well-being of human beings or our finite earth.

Socialism with free-market features might be a good stepping stone. Protection for the earth and people with free market able to function.  However, the two systems are disparate in their very nature, so eventually one would subvert the other (honestly this is why I see civil war in China eventually).


I live in China.   The socialist, state owned companies are referred to as "monopolies."  Because that's what they are.

It's callusion that leads to monopolies, not capitalism per se.

And while a civil war might happen "eventually," I'm betting that it won't happen soon.
 
2013-02-19 12:25:57 AM  
The only way we can survive is to stop having so many children.  This is not going to happen on its own, it needs divine intervention to fix this.  Lots of options, not likely the one you were thinking about the most, or the one after that.
 
2013-02-19 12:29:32 AM  

rev. dave: The only way we can survive is to stop having so many children.  This is not going to happen on its own, it needs divine intervention to fix this.  Lots of options, not likely the one you were thinking about the most, or the one after that.


Uh, agreed. Don't have children
 
2013-02-19 12:31:47 AM  

JungleBoogie: I see some celebrities self-destructing because they have no purpose in life, no need to work, to follow some schedule.


"The number one killer of old people is retirement."

The solution is "Get a damned hobby."
 
2013-02-19 12:41:22 AM  

Alexei Novikov: Got snipped when I turned 18. We already pay people to have babies. It's not working out very well. Article is farking stupid.


Here in the US it can be difficult to find a doctor who will perform a vasectomy on men under 30... or even under 40 if they don't have any kids. Most of them believe you'll change your mind about not wanting children so they try very hard to discourage having the procedure done.
 
2013-02-19 12:42:15 AM  
Yeah, the overpopulation lie has been dead for some time. We probably have enough small-time eugenicists and child-haters here at FARK (you know, the type who still find the term "crotchfruit" amusing) where this type of story will still be found either revelatory, controversial, or morally wrong.
 
2013-02-19 12:49:36 AM  

Fubini: Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.



Don't give Nurse Noakes any ideas...

3.bp.blogspot.com
/Seriously, though, can't we get past life as a Ponzi scheme before we destroy all biology on the planet?
 
2013-02-19 12:50:02 AM  

Ed Willy: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.

Don't forget the Japanese. Half the incentive for creating robots is so they can avoid having to open their borders to permanent immigration.

Meanwhile, China one child policy mixed with their preference of boys means you'll have a generation of working class men with no females around.

Hmmm.... Maybe Japan and China can finally reach piece by trading Japanese sex bot technology to help the Chinese government from having a revolution of sexually frustrated men.


Newsletter.
 
2013-02-19 12:53:11 AM  
My example was the most efficient  organization of a 5-7 Million population group consisting of 10, groups 16, 58 story buildings in a square grid, with each of the groups supporting (400x16) 6400 people in the top 50 floors (1600, 5000 square ft apartments) with 4 floors of businesses, restaurants, etc, and 4 floors underground for food delivery, food shopping, parking and underground transport access for the outer 4 buildings of each 1/10th of a mile 16 building block.
10 16 building blocks make 1 side of the mile square and 10 more make up the other side, thus 160 x 160 = 25,600 buildings per square mile.

now lets take it to a real world example, which is about a 10 square mile complex supporting 5 million, and within the next 20 years is looking to expand to 6.9 million, due to immigration, and and a continued internal growth rate of ~1.3% combined. The country is Singapore, a city state on the southern tip of Malaysia.
They have grown, with levels of renovation and constant construction, in roughly 2 generations (48 years, since independence from being a colony and then from Malaysia as well, to be not only an economic powerhouse in the region, having univeral health care, a mixture of work and government subsidized retirement packages, the highest rate of literacy in Asia and challenging most of the rest of the world, having a 2.2% unemployment rate. All the while striving for independence from Malaysia, and succeeding in creating a water independent infrastructure that can support the population without needing to access the river that flows, but is controlable by Malaysian authority. They have the infrastructure of transportation to move 100,000 people per day through their airports, hosting world events like the Youth Olympic Games in 2010, and having a Formula 1 race event routed through their streets and still be able to have 100,000+ crowds navigate their way home in 15 to 20 minutes through their mass transit systems, busses, taxi's and rerouted traffic for personal cars.
Also they have integrated 5 national languages including English, have a Sharia Law Court system as well as the Queen's (British) court system. They provide education in 43 acknowledged "home dialects".
They are known for their love of food, which although mostly seafood, also includes a great deal of poultry, lamb, beef, and pork as the great diversity of peoples have strong culinary traditions and citywide competitions to be rated the best in specialized dishes and techniques.

So, like I said if we simply re-plan our cities, we could still have great cities, but with a huge reduction in resources being held up in distribution channels. Think how many miles of water piping currently goes into delivering water to 2,000,000 individual building in the city of LA alone, Then think of the gas lines, the electrical grid, and the sewage lines. Not to mention the thousands of miles of roadways, expressways, bridges, government buildings, gas stations etc.
If we planned to condense LA from 100 square miles to even just 10 square miles, not the extreme case of 1 square mile as I presented as technically possible, the cost savings to our country in terms of upkeep, energy costs, government expenditures and other wasted resources, from just LA alone, would be roughly 1/3 of our current national debt (5.3 Trillion) every decade. If we extended the same consolodation to the other top 100 population cities in the country, we could double our economic status, and remove the national debt entirely in one decade, without changing anything else.
If we were include changes to our energy creation mechanism, included water recycling, thermal depolymerization for oil production and water purification, algal based oil production, superconductive national electrical distribution network of solar and wind energy to localized electrolisis and hydrogen/oxygen powered steam generating electrical distribution and storage area, we could cut another 90% off of our energy costs, while also eliminating 144 Billion dollars in direct costs of coal oil and natural gas for electrical generation alone, plus the 1.5 Trillion in costs for oil usage in the US for transportation, manufacturing etc.
All the tech is here, we just need to plan, implement, and change how we view what cities can and do for us, and what they can and will do for us in the future.
 
2013-02-19 01:06:16 AM  

Mentat: The biggest side effect of the population leveling off is that once the baby boomers die off, there will be a massive world-wide worker shortage.  Countries will be fighting to let immigrants in.  It will be the greatest boon to the Middle Class since the Black Death.


Yeah, it was great other than the dying part!
 
2013-02-19 01:08:26 AM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


I'm not oppressing anyone you bigoted farkwad
 
2013-02-19 01:11:11 AM  
There was NEVER any overpopulation issue among scientists. There was only the overpopulation cover of Time Magazine. The scientists never thought that.

Sincerely,

Every Global Warming Apologist Ever
 
2013-02-19 01:11:39 AM  
The real problem is the intelligence levels of the ones who ARE breeding.

There should be an "intelligence panic."
 
2013-02-19 01:15:10 AM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


seriously? is hating white people a thing now?
 
2013-02-19 01:22:41 AM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.

seriously? is hating white people a thing now?

 
2013-02-19 01:23:45 AM  
I hit the wrong button. I blame whitey.
 
2013-02-19 01:26:02 AM  
Stone Meadow:
thehaberboschprocess.files.wordpress.com 

IOW, we're going to top out at about 50% higher than we are now.

Which is still freaking terrifying. The resources that had to sustain one person just 50 years ago will need to support five people, in fifty years time.
 
2013-02-19 01:29:49 AM  
Can't we just sell the old people off to medical experiments?
 
2013-02-19 01:40:19 AM  

Amos Quito: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


[previews.agefotostock.com image 540x374]

[cdn.theatlanticcities.com image 608x416]

"Dreams of the future of humanity"

Paradise, eh, GAT_00?

~
GAT_00 is a white-hating racist PoS.

"pay attention to me I hate white people check me out ladeez!"
 
2013-02-19 01:42:18 AM  

xcv: I'm not even white and I mourn the loss of Young White Women that are in sharp decline against the world's total population. Nearly every heterosexual man of every ethnicity prefers them, with increased competition for a shrinking supply, YWW are going to become an extremely valuable commodity on the planet, again. Wars were fought over them in the past, hopefully 3D printers and gene expression therapy will solve some of the demand.



Bullworth: All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep farkin' everybody 'til they're all the same color.

i47.tinypic.com
 
2013-02-19 01:44:53 AM  

Big Ramifications: Amos Quito: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


[previews.agefotostock.com image 540x374]

[cdn.theatlanticcities.com image 608x416]

"Dreams of the future of humanity"

Paradise, eh, GAT_00?
~
GAT_00 is a white-hating racist PoS.

"pay attention to me I hate white people check me out ladeez!"


FALK YOU Big Ram takes one to know one.
 
2013-02-19 01:51:31 AM  
Luckily we have these "quiver full" religious whack jobs to save us.
farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2013-02-19 01:54:03 AM  

SevenizGud: There was NEVER any overpopulation issue among scientists. There was only the overpopulation cover of Time Magazine. The scientists never thought that.

Sincerely,

Every Global Warming Apologist Ever


Then Norman Borlaug worked his ass off to feed all the new people for shiats and giggles?

Please. The scientists and engineers have been busy finding ways to get water, food, power, and communications to the teeming masses...who f*cking cares what we call it. Go cry in a low flow toilet.
 
2013-02-19 01:54:13 AM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


Soylent Green is pensioners!

Delicious pensioners.
 
2013-02-19 01:57:39 AM  

Cybernetic: Paul Ehrlich was so very wrong on so many levels.

I hope that Julian Simon's heirs still have the framed check.


came here to say
THIS!
Ehrlich is such a worthless POS.  "Well, my predictions never came true, but here are some NEW predictions. I am certain that this time I wont be wrong."
DIAF you POS.

Strangely enough, Simon has never been proved "wrong".
A quick look at oil and gas in the US fits everything that he ever wrote.
Human intellect is unbound.
 
2013-02-19 02:02:21 AM  

Ishkur: HeadLever: Problem is, what do you replace it with?

Well, the Age of Post-Scarcity is coming, and it will be a slow burn over a couple hundred years rather than a complete overhaul within a single generation, which is how all economic systems transform into new ones (ie: Manorialism--->Mercantilism--->Capitalism). And it's going to start with the biggest issue of the 21st century (besides overpopulation, global warming, and dwindling resources): Employment.

As automation replaces the jobs that humans used to do, we're going to see an increasing amount of society capable of running itself. And when it gets to a point where only a fraction of full-time jobs exist and the system is capable of supporting up to 80% unemployment without totally collapsing1.

Why do we work? To make money, obviously. Why do we want to make money? So we can buy stuff that makes our lives more comfortable. Why does this stuff cost money? Because there is only so much of it about. If there's not enough of something, it has value. It's worth something. Rarity is expensive. Everything abundant is worthless. It is free. I'll come back to this point later.

10,000 years ago, 100% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the tribe.
5,000 years ago, 80% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the city-state.
1,000 years ago, 60% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the kingdom.
200 years ago, 40% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the country.
Today, less than 10% of our population actively work on providing enough food for the rest of us.

This level of efficiency will soon spread to all industries. Automation, industrial processes, manufacturing and mass production will provide for all, with very little human labor required. Some companies are already so streamlined and efficient that they can execute business operations and move product with a skeleton force that keeps shrinking. Additionally, with service-oriented architecture, one man can run a complete business all by himself without the need for employees. His business operations are modular -- he hires labor when needed....part-time, temporary, contract work.

So what then? What happens when a businesses can be run perfectly fine without employees? Without payroll? Without you? What happens when one man can do the job of one million (like farmers do now)?

We are rapidly approaching that age. The age of post-scarcity and post-capitalism.

We've seen what happens to media (cf. internet) when it reaches a state of absolute abundance -- it becomes worthless. It becomes free. It becomes accessible to everyone everywhere, equally, all the time. Now stretch this same paradigm across all sectors, all industries, all segments of human consumption. What happens?

Maintenance and upkeep of our system is being handled by fewer and fewer personnel. Automation makes things cheaper, more efficient, more abundant. Without scarcity, there is no value. No value, no cost. No cost, no need to pay for it. And if you don't need to pay for anything, then why need money? And if you don't need money, then why work?

Since Capitalism is a resource-based system that requires scarcity to operate, it will ultimately be discarded -- abundance makes it meaningless. What will people live/work for then? Since everything is taken care of, social acceptance within a peer group and self-actualization become prime goals (youtube is a perfect example of this: When people can't find work, they invent their own things to do...even if its just dumb Gangnam Style and Harlem Shake parodies).

I like to envision a Star Trekian future where the essential work (the 2%ers) is handled by different segments of the population during different stages of their lives, like shifts. It would be a mandatory service thing (ie: every 10 years, you must put in six months of labor) that rotates through the populace. So in an average life, most people would only work about 6000 hours. The rest of their lives they do whatever they like.

But I can't see any of this being a feasible reality for another century or so, when technology/AI improves and money becomes even more of an abstraction than it is now. But the key economic indicator is scarcity: Things have value because they are rare. We obtain them by exchanging them with other rare/finite things, namely currency. Once we get over this notion and officially annihilate scarcity (and the need to work for it), then Capitalism will be truly dead and done away with.

But it will come naturally, through social and technological progress, not through revolution. And it will come gradually, over the course of several generations. Not all at once, and certainly not within our lifetimes.

But before all that, we have to evaluate what we live and work for, and why. And we must come to accept the notion that a life of work isn't our destiny (even if we want it). We must evolve beyond the the idea that our lives are governed by the salary and the paycheck.

That might be a difficult thing to do.

/1 You might think this will never be possible, but we're already almost there. Society is humming along now taking care of a great number of people who don't contribute any value to the system: The very poor, the very rich, the handicapped, the disabled, the sick, the elderly, children, students, and the unemployed, underemployed and unemployable are all being supported quite comfortably by the people who are..... and somehow this is not a net negative on society.


Pardon me if someone else already said it, but have you read Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age"?
 
2013-02-19 02:05:29 AM  

SevenizGud: There was NEVER any overpopulation issue among scientists. There was only the overpopulation cover of Time Magazine. The scientists never thought that.

Sincerely,

Every Global Warming Apologist Ever


I don't know if you have magical powers to see the future but scientists back then certainly didn't.  The human race would be farked if we didn't change our reproduction habits to respond to the advances in health care. It would have been hard to know for sure the reproduction habits would change, especially if you were trying to predict the future before contraceptives and women's rights.
 
2013-02-19 02:08:31 AM  

gingerjet: lets talk about real problems like climat change and feed people - both are political problems


Climate change is a political scam. The oldest one, exploiting people's fear of nature and ignorance to gain control over them and take the fruits of their labor. If we want to feed everyone the state needs to get out of the way, not more into the way. It is these government interventions that cause the problems as you point out by saying they are political.

Get rid of people who think that for whatever reason think they have the right to run the world, to decide how everyone should live, to exploit other people, etc and so forth and a lot of the problems will go away through the natural creativity and inventiveness that is suppressed by the current political process and domination of governments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yRh5NNiFG0

gweilo8888: Which is still freaking terrifying. The resources that had to sustain one person just 50 years ago will need to support five people, in fifty years time.


The reason less developed countries have such huge populations is because they are kept in a state of poverty by governments, not only the ones that rule them directly but the ones that support the governments that rule them. (foreign aid, puppet states, etc) It is the state of low productivity they are kept in that encourages more kids. More hands to bring in money, grow food, survive to adulthood, etc and so on. When people become more productive, the extra hands aren't needed and become costly to have. The society in general starts preventing kids from working, etc and so on. The kids become a cost rather than a gain. Also it's encouraged to put more resources into each child.

So, want to solve the third world population problem? Take the boot off their necks and let them prosper.
 
2013-02-19 02:15:11 AM  
We are no more at risk of running out of people than we are of stupidity.
 
2013-02-19 02:18:42 AM  
Thomas Malthus laughs last and longest
 
2013-02-19 02:22:36 AM  

pippi longstocking: We are no more at risk of running out of people than we are of stupidity.


I sort of agree, but I think the problem may be that we are running out of smart people because the stupid ones are out-breeding them.
 
2013-02-19 02:25:20 AM  
And it's always the fault of rampant abortion.

There have been approximately 54 million abortions since RvW.

Meanwhile, there have been approximately 160 million births.

We're still ahead of the curve.

Most women today don't have children because THEY DON'T WANT TO.

I didn't have children for the same reason.

Children are a pain in the arse.
 
2013-02-19 02:25:39 AM  

Big Ramifications: Big Ramifications:


You forgot to change socks, puppet.
 
2013-02-19 02:26:20 AM  

Amos Quito: super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


"Only when we interbreed to the point that there are no distinguishable "races" will we achieve true "diversity" via a the miracle of a mongrelized monoculture".

Right?


Who are you quoting?
 
2013-02-19 02:30:34 AM  

Generation_D: Says the guy that quotes Breitbart as evidence in arguments.


you  got me mixed up with somebody else. I do economics...not politics. sometimes data comes from  right leaning sites, sometimes it comes from the left leaning sites.

My view is capitalism will be "dead" within 50 years. Post-scarcity is almost up on us. Artificial scarcity (outer-space activities) is our only hope of survival because of the human need of pecking order will not work.
Money in its current form will not work.
We are heading towards a meritocracy.
Which is fine by me.
 
2013-02-19 02:39:17 AM  
i845.photobucket.com
They would like a word with you.
/hot
 
2013-02-19 02:42:32 AM  

Ishkur: HeadLever: Problem is, what do you replace it with?

Well, the Age of Post-Scarcity is coming, and it will be a slow burn over a couple hundred years rather than a complete overhaul within a single generation, which is how all economic systems transform into new ones (ie: Manorialism--->Mercantilism--->Capitalism). And it's going to start with the biggest issue of the 21st century (besides overpopulation, global warming, and dwindling resources): Employment.

As automation replaces the jobs that humans used to do, we're going to see an increasing amount of society capable of running itself. And when it gets to a point where only a fraction of full-time jobs exist and the system is capable of supporting up to 80% unemployment without totally collapsing1.

Why do we work? To make money, obviously. Why do we want to make money? So we can buy stuff that makes our lives more comfortable. Why does this stuff cost money? Because there is only so much of it about. If there's not enough of something, it has value. It's worth something. Rarity is expensive. Everything abundant is worthless. It is free. I'll come back to this point later.

10,000 years ago, 100% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the tribe.
5,000 years ago, 80% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the city-state.
1,000 years ago, 60% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the kingdom.
200 years ago, 40% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the country.
Today, less than 10% of our population actively work on providing enough food for the rest of us.

This level of efficiency will soon spread to all industries. Automation, industrial processes, manufacturing and mass production will provide for all, with very little human labor required. Some companies are already so streamlined and efficient that they can execute business operations and move product with a skeleto ...


damn....missed this post.
/we are on the same page with one exception
//it is coming a hell of a lot quicker than you think
///why?...because I and others have dedicated our lives to make it happen.... very soon.
////will we succeed? odds are against us, but we will die trying.
 
2013-02-19 02:45:43 AM  
Is a world without white people really worth saving?
 
2013-02-19 02:46:44 AM  

Hickory-smoked: Big Ramifications: Big Ramifications:

You forgot to change socks, puppet.


Sock puppets are for morans. I just felt like yelling at clouds.
 
2013-02-19 03:19:03 AM  
The latest victim is the United States, which until recently was proud of its big, corn-fed families, but discovered last year that the economic crisis and constricted immigration have pushed its average family size down to 1.9 children, below the 2.1 needed for population stability.

Actually, the US gives precisely zero farks.  We have such high demand for immigration that we could be running at like 0.2 children per adult parent and we'd  still  be maintaining population growth without even trying, even in a down economy.
 
2013-02-19 03:35:03 AM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


This is trolling, right?

Or have you truly not read any non-white history at all?

People are oppressors because they're people, not because of their skin color.
 
2013-02-19 03:52:55 AM  
I wont read the whole thread but my thoughts are this- there are too many humans as it is, and they keep expanding at a rate that their home ( and only ) world can sustain. Im not pointing at a single colour/ race, but the species overall. We are fast approaching a tipping point, as even as the old die off- it doesnt help as far as resource expinditures go- they will still require land for burial. and most want a lawn on a grave...
Carlin had a few points, but- why not graveyard golfcourses ? The statuary could help a handicap, and we only use half the water and land.

I personally think that  the ideal human population for this planet based on size and resources is 1 billion max. Maybe 2, but they do breed like rabbits .. . . ..
Or there will be wars over many things, unless everyone collectively makes sure that every being has potable water and edible food. I do not see that happening. sigh
 
2013-02-19 03:53:39 AM  

Big Ramifications: Hickory-smoked: Big Ramifications: Big Ramifications:

You forgot to change socks, puppet.

Sock puppets are for morans. I just felt like yelling at clouds.


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-19 04:27:47 AM  

mr lawson: Generation_D: Says the guy that quotes Breitbart as evidence in arguments.

you  got me mixed up with somebody else. I do economics...not politics.


  It's nearly impossible to separate the two, and get any useful real-world results.
 
2013-02-19 04:38:50 AM  

Dafatone: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.

This.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal recently that began by saying "hey, the middle class is vanishing because of birth rates!  Let's use 'white and college educated' as a stand-in for middle class, because that's what we think when we think middle class."

fark the WSJ and fark this line of thinking.


s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-02-19 04:57:50 AM  

mr lawson: Generation_D: Says the guy that quotes Breitbart as evidence in arguments.

you  got me mixed up with somebody else. I do economics...not politics. sometimes data comes from  right leaning sites, sometimes it comes from the left leaning sites.

My view is capitalism will be "dead" within 50 years. Post-scarcity is almost up on us. Artificial scarcity (outer-space activities) is our only hope of survival because of the human need of pecking order will not work.
Money in its current form will not work.
We are heading towards a meritocracy.
Which is fine by me.


Yeah, Marx said that a while back. I think he said something about money and pecking orders not working either.
 
2013-02-19 05:13:06 AM  

Stone Meadow: IOW, we're going to top out at about 50% higher than we are now.


Worth watching:

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_religions_and_babies.html

"We are still debating peak oil, but we have definitely reached peak child."
=Smidge=
 
2013-02-19 05:49:41 AM  
Don't worry, people, I'm here to help. I well simply require as many young, fertile females as you can find to be brought to me at once!
 
2013-02-19 05:56:56 AM  

Atomic Spunk: Open your legs, ladies. I'm here to help the country.


Not sure why but my first thought was the song from Grease 2 "let's do it for our country"
 
2013-02-19 05:57:19 AM  
People are stupid. The only reason we have thrived this long is we are the biggest assholes on the planet.

If the other life on this planet had any sentience, they would band together and destroy us. We are the biggest threat this planet has faced since the  P-Tr.
 
2013-02-19 05:59:09 AM  

PunGent: Or have you truly not read any non-white history at all?


Well, to be fair the white oppressors didn't even allow it until 1976 and then only for 28-29 days per year but that was only for blacks. Latinos and Asians aren't taught at all in US schools except for Pearl Harbor and the Alamo and those were a long time ago.
 
2013-02-19 06:06:39 AM  
Meh. If we don't reduce our numbers by having fewer children, we'll die off in a massive population crunch. I prefer the "fewer babies" way.

The politicians and bean-counters are just going to have to find a way to make our economies work when a sizable chunk of the populace is elderly.
 
2013-02-19 06:11:10 AM  
There seems to be the attitude that "all old folks need to be looked after." My mother's in her late eighties and still lives independantly, my dad worked full-time into his sixties and part-time into his seventies, and my next-door neighbour right into his eightieth year was still working in his garage almost every day and up on his roof checking shingles every summer. He'd still be doing that if cancer hadn't gotten him.
Get a hobby, keep your mind active, and chances are pretty good you won't end your days drooling in a chair in a nursing home. Number one killer of old folks is boredom.
 
2013-02-19 06:31:08 AM  

Dumski: From the Wikipedia article on ZPG (Zero Population Growth)

In the late 1960s ZPG became a big political movement in the U.S. and parts of Europe, with strong links to environmentalism and feminism. Yale University was a stronghold of the ZPG activists who believed "that a constantly increasing population is responsible for many of our problems: pollution, violence, loss of values and of individual privacy."[8] Founding fathers of the movement were Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb, and Thomas Eisner. Ehrlich stated: "The mother of the year should be a sterlized woman with two adopted children."

My father was an OB/GYN in the '60s and 70's. I remember him wearing a ZPG button on his lab coat.
That was the thinking post baby boom, and he was a supporter of that cause. Geez Dad, what a waste of time.


This is why it's bad to rely on Wikipedia....and this crap sounds more like Conservapedia.

"Big movement"???    Please...name a single US congressman elected on a ZPG platform in the last five decades.

Hell, name a single US dogcatcher elected on that platform, I'll be impressed...
 
2013-02-19 07:19:24 AM  

Ima4nic8or: I always thought that the concerns about "overpopulation" were overblown hippie drivel and this pretty much confirms that.  The "issue" has disappeared overnight, just like the good ole ozone hole scare, and just like the global warming scare will at some point.


Yeah, it's cool how those things were fixed entirely by themselves.
 
2013-02-19 07:26:35 AM  
I remember the ice age panic or global cooling in the 70s..."they" wanted to paint the poles black to absorb more heat.

Those scientists...
 
2013-02-19 07:42:07 AM  

HeadLever: Marcus Aurelius: Can you please point out exactly where I am mistaken?

If you like ever expanding population in your neck of the woods, why not welcome in the immigrants with open arms?

And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.

What do green lights have to do with this argument?


Apparently only by your submission of green lights will your words have any legitimacy.
 
2013-02-19 07:43:02 AM  
Stop breeding stupid people.
Stop breeding, stupid people.
Stop, breeding stupid people.
 
2013-02-19 07:45:04 AM  

Amos Quito: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.






"Dreams of the future of humanity"

Paradise, eh, GAT_00?


Huh, an overt racist. You don't see too many of those these days.
 
2013-02-19 07:49:13 AM  

HeadLever: Elmo Jones: When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

So, pretty much everyone then, right?


Ah the rich smell of butthurt over slavery, disregard whites enslaving their own kind for ages before this 400 year tyranny. Vikings, English/irish.
Please tell me more about your sense of entitlement.
 
2013-02-19 07:55:50 AM  

Azlefty: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!


And leave diapers strewn about in front of my house, which they refuse to pick up despite being the only people living on this block who actually have diaper wearing spawn.
 
2013-02-19 08:05:40 AM  

heili skrimsli: Azlefty: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!

And leave diapers strewn about in front of my house, which they refuse to pick up despite being the only people living on this block who actually have diaper wearing spawn.


Have them gathered and left lovingly on their front porch. Set it alight if you need to.
 
2013-02-19 08:08:29 AM  
I had a kid once.

Once.
 
2013-02-19 08:13:15 AM  

Nacc: heili skrimsli: Azlefty: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!

And leave diapers strewn about in front of my house, which they refuse to pick up despite being the only people living on this block who actually have diaper wearing spawn.

Have them gathered and left lovingly on their front porch. Set it alight if you need to.


The rainy conditions today are not conducive to blazing diapergrams, and I really don't want that thing in my house so it can dry out.
 
2013-02-19 08:18:02 AM  

Stone Meadow: Happy Hours: I'm sure we as a species will survive but we're going to have issues with population.

I see your...

[www.endangeredspecieshandbook.org image 394x263]

And raise you with what the UN actually thinks is going to happen...

[thehaberboschprocess.files.wordpress.com image 440x306]

IOW, we're going to top out at about 50% higher than we are now.

Scary graphs are scary?


Your graph is wrong as well, we will not continue to increase, it's not possible.  You will see a downturn in the next 5 years.
 
2013-02-19 08:21:05 AM  
Germany spends 200 billion euros a year trying to get more people to have babies

i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-19 08:26:45 AM  

heili skrimsli: Nacc: heili skrimsli: Azlefty: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!

And leave diapers strewn about in front of my house, which they refuse to pick up despite being the only people living on this block who actually have diaper wearing spawn.

Have them gathered and left lovingly on their front porch. Set it alight if you need to.

The rainy conditions today are not conducive to blazing diapergrams, and I really don't want that thing in my house so it can dry out.


New manger scene prop. Jesus would leave his poopydeuces all over peoples yards you just don't even know
 
2013-02-19 08:31:09 AM  

gingerjet: When I was in elementry school in the 80s two things were taught - we will run out of oil by the year 2000 and over population will destroy this planet  And here we are - happily plugging along.

/lets talk about real problems like climat change and feed people - both are political problems


So, you don't think that overpopulation is a real problem and will eventually destroy this planet?  Seriously?

*elementary
*overpopulation
*climate
*feeding
 
2013-02-19 09:18:45 AM  

squidgod2000: Germany spends 200 billion euros a year trying to get more people to have babies

[i.imgur.com image 500x271]


I got yer citations right here, sonny.

Spiegel, citing the 200 billion euro figure

Irish Times on the birth rate decline

Forbes, last May

NPR segment on the topic.

Aaaand.... Time, May 2010.
 
2013-02-19 09:28:55 AM  
greenobles.com

Can you hold off your rutting, till we figure out this food/air deal !!!
 
2013-02-19 10:52:25 AM  
When non-whites reach a certain minimum threshold standard of living, their birth rates immediately fall to the same low levels middle-class whites have.  The most important factor in birth rates isn't race, it is standard of living.
 
2013-02-19 11:52:20 AM  

ChuDogg: If you look at current and projected water shortages its simple to see that over-population is a real problem and there are not enough resources to sustain our current global population, never mind an additional few billion.

Babyboomers not being able to retire to a jet setting life of luxory like medieval Royalty shouldn't be the arbitrator of policies.  Unfortunately it is and western civilization looks to be committing suicide because of it.


This!

Overpopulation is a problem, if we got down to a billion people I'm sure we'd have a much better chance of sustaining human life on Earth over a long period of time.

Our current rate of growth is not sustainable, and will eventually cause our extinction.
 
2013-02-19 12:15:42 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Amos Quito: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


"Dreams of the future of humanity"

Paradise, eh, GAT_00?

Huh, an overt racist
. You don't see too many of those these days.



Yeah, I sometimes wonder how GAT_00 has the courage to show his face around here.
 
2013-02-19 12:22:15 PM  
Who the hell can manage more than a couple of children when both parents work?  Not I.  Not if I want to maintain a decent job performance and give enough attention to each child.  Plus, frankly, I am really over the whole diaper thing.  It was fun and babies are cute, but I am ready to embrace a future free of poopy butts.
 
2013-02-19 01:01:59 PM  

FizixJunkee: Fubini: Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.

I hate to admit it, but THIS.

You know, my grandparents as well as the other Junkee's grandparents are managing to their live old-aged lives better than any of their grandchildren are living our young lives.  They all have pensions, Social Security, savings, homes paid for, etc.  Not a single one of them had student loan debt or struggled to pay for childcare ($1,325/month here in Los Angeles).  They were able to buy decent homes on a single income rather than struggle to afford a mortgage on two incomes.


THIS!

However, lowering the population is a great thing and is going to lead to higher wages and less poverty, just like after WW2 and the black death. The average worker will be in a position of power again.

My generation has been nickled and dimed to death and I was able to avoid a lot of it thanks to my parents. However, my generation and Gen X are in a bad state.

Baby Boomers aren't in a great state themselves, many haven't saved enough for retirement, had what little they had eaten by the stock market, and have too much "invested" in their house. I'm not sure if this is going to lead to a price crashes or a "hording" situation (won't sell house because it's "worth more"). Boomers are going to delay retirement, which is going to hurt their kids' advancement.

I expect to see many more multi-generational living situations and many people my age completely opting out of parenthood, if they have a kid it's going to be 1 or 2, due to daycare costing as much as a college education.

/Going to be a rough couple of decades
//Buckle up
 
2013-02-19 01:27:44 PM  

lolpix: Google up "The Pivot of Civilization" by Margaret Sanger. You'll get an interesting backstory about the theory of overpopulation,  eugenics, abortion and birth control, Planned Parenthood, and -- believe it or not -- the New World Order. The gist of the argument is that birth rates are too high among the wrong sorts of people, and too low among the better classes. But don't take my word for it. Google.


It's why the republicans are starting to get scared and are focusing on banning planned parenthood, etc again. In their heads only white girls get abortions and use BC (for serious, Rush Limbaugh told them so). Welfare queens keep popping out kids so they don't use it anyway.

Also, less people means higher salaries, and businesses can't have that.

/people are weird
 
2013-02-19 02:59:37 PM  

Nacc: Please tell me more about your sense of entitlement.


Please tell me what I have asked you for.
These threads are very educational. They tell me which people's opinion's aren't worth a tinker's damn. Plus they remind me of all the worn-out tropes of closet-cases.
Can anyone tell me the name of a slave that they're related to?
 
2013-02-19 03:56:35 PM  
I definitely think we should keep adding more people to the population until even more of them are starving or dying slowly of TB, living in deplorable conditions. Because there aren't enough people living like that right now. We certainly need more.

Yeah, I know, the "we're running out of people" people don't mean third world brown people, they mean white people. Or reasonably educated non-white people who will come to America (assuming they're not already here) and pay plenty of taxes to pay for all the old farkers.

Because that's a good reason to yap about "needing" a higher population. To serve as wage slaves to support the giant blob of geezers.

And these people go on about Japan. Yeah, what a dystopian hellhole THAT place is.

A real dystopian hellhole (for many people)? China or India.

No offense, China and India, I know you've both come a long way, but I wouldn't want to live in either place, as either a young or old person. And esp. as a female person.
 
2013-02-19 04:08:59 PM  
We're at seven billion and still breeding like rabbits. (Projected world population in 2050: TEN billion). My money is still on "Overpopulation will kill us all." Or at the very least the world will be nothing but stinking, polluted cities and farms.
 
2013-02-19 04:19:27 PM  
What the hell ever happened to canyoneer, anyway?
 
2013-02-19 05:00:18 PM  

Mentat: The biggest side effect of the population leveling off is that once the baby boomers die off, there will be a massive world-wide worker shortage.


No, there will be a worker shortage when they retire.  When they die, it will actually relieve the problem a bit by reducing the numerator in the "retirees per worker" equation.
 
2013-02-19 05:16:55 PM  

Stone Meadow: IOW, we're going to top out at about 50% higher than we are now.

Scary graphs are scary?


That second graph was made in 1998; has anyone tried crunching the numbers with more recent data?  In 1998 AIDS was a major component of the projected decreasing rate of population growth.
 
2013-02-19 11:36:53 PM  

Elmo Jones: Nacc: Please tell me more about your sense of entitlement.

Please tell me what I have asked you for.
These threads are very educational. They tell me which people's opinion's aren't worth a tinker's damn. Plus they remind me of all the worn-out tropes of closet-cases.
Can anyone tell me the name of a slave that they're related to?


If you're black, your ancestors came from near Pensacola, and your last name is Anderson...you might be a cousin of mine. Or a "good friend of the family", if not a blood relation.
 
2013-02-19 11:52:16 PM  

GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.

~
~

If you look at net migration over, say, the last 50 years, WHITE cultures have been the most desirable places for all the black, brown, and yellow people to move to.

And have you noticed most countries populated by black, brown, and yellow people are TEEMING SHIATHOLES?

Your glib racist statement falls apart at just the slightest of scrutiny. I'd be worried, sizzlechest.
 
2013-02-20 01:07:51 AM  

Loaf's Tray: What the hell ever happened to canyoneer, anyway?


Maybe he finally went Galt. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
 
2013-02-20 01:51:03 AM  

Big Ramifications: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.
~
~

If you look at net migration over, say, the last 50 years, WHITE cultures have been the most desirable places for all the black, brown, and yellow people to move to.

And have you noticed most countries populated by black, brown, and yellow people are TEEMING SHIATHOLES?

Your glib racist statement falls apart at just the slightest of scrutiny. I'd be worried, sizzlechest.


Are you still yelling at clouds? Because your implied argument is pretty awful.
 
2013-02-20 02:11:47 AM  

Bonzo_1116: f you're black, your ancestors came from near Pensacola, and your last name is Anderson...you might be a cousin of mine. Or a "good friend of the family", if not a blood relation.


Yes, no, and no, but we're no more than 50th cousins, like all the world.
 
2013-02-20 02:15:54 AM  
http://www.fark.com/comments/7599577/82616158#c82616158" target=_blank>Hickory-smoked: Big Ramifications: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.
~
~

Are you still yelling at clouds? Because your implied argument is pretty awful.


 ~

~

I'm surprised you didn't call me racist.

 
Statement of fact, sizzlechest. Look at all the countries you would classify as TEEMING SHIATHOLES. Who lives there? Facts are facts. I'm not exactly goose stepping around the room doing the good ol' "sieg heil" each time I hit Add Comment.


Hey, maybe you can even work in the angle that it's ALL WHITE PEEPS FAULT anyway. Colonialism, and awl that.

 
I respect that you want to discuss your feelings and how AWFUL my post made you feel.
 
2013-02-20 03:57:11 AM  

Elmo Jones: Bonzo_1116: f you're black, your ancestors came from near Pensacola, and your last name is Anderson...you might be a cousin of mine. Or a "good friend of the family", if not a blood relation.

Yes, no, and no, but we're no more than 50th cousins, like all the world.


If recent data is accurate, there's folks walking around today with up to 4% Neanderthal DNA... possibly from multiple crossover events.

We're all pink on the inside, and aren't that choosy.
 
2013-02-20 11:03:13 AM  

Big Ramifications: Statement of fact, sizzlechest. Look at all the countries you would classify as TEEMING SHIATHOLES. Who lives there?


Kansans.
 
2013-02-21 01:21:43 AM  
Big Jerkyboyz.

My gosh, somebody's sure got their ramifications in a WAAAAUUUGHH.

Last time I checked, Japan was not a teeming shiathole.

I find that particular viewpoint quite illogical.
 
2013-02-21 05:12:43 AM  

Kittypie070: Big Jerkyboyz.

My gosh, somebody's sure got their ramifications in a WAAAAUUUGHH.

Last time I checked, Japan was not a teeming shiathole.

I find that particular viewpoint quite illogical.


I thought Japan was a wretched hive of scum and tentacle rapists
 
2013-02-21 02:11:26 PM  

Lanadapter: Kittypie070: Big Jerkyboyz.

My gosh, somebody's sure got their ramifications in a WAAAAUUUGHH.

Last time I checked, Japan was not a teeming shiathole.

I find that particular viewpoint quite illogical.


I thought Japan was a wretched hive of scum and tentacle rapists


Well yeah, it IS that, but it certainly is not a teeming shiathole.
 
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