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(Hot Air)   Remember when overpopulation was going to kill us all? Now we're in the age of the "fertility panic"   (hotair.com) divider line 316
    More: Obvious, law of diminishing returns  
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11871 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2013 at 9:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-19 02:08:31 AM  

gingerjet: lets talk about real problems like climat change and feed people - both are political problems


Climate change is a political scam. The oldest one, exploiting people's fear of nature and ignorance to gain control over them and take the fruits of their labor. If we want to feed everyone the state needs to get out of the way, not more into the way. It is these government interventions that cause the problems as you point out by saying they are political.

Get rid of people who think that for whatever reason think they have the right to run the world, to decide how everyone should live, to exploit other people, etc and so forth and a lot of the problems will go away through the natural creativity and inventiveness that is suppressed by the current political process and domination of governments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yRh5NNiFG0

gweilo8888: Which is still freaking terrifying. The resources that had to sustain one person just 50 years ago will need to support five people, in fifty years time.


The reason less developed countries have such huge populations is because they are kept in a state of poverty by governments, not only the ones that rule them directly but the ones that support the governments that rule them. (foreign aid, puppet states, etc) It is the state of low productivity they are kept in that encourages more kids. More hands to bring in money, grow food, survive to adulthood, etc and so on. When people become more productive, the extra hands aren't needed and become costly to have. The society in general starts preventing kids from working, etc and so on. The kids become a cost rather than a gain. Also it's encouraged to put more resources into each child.

So, want to solve the third world population problem? Take the boot off their necks and let them prosper.
 
2013-02-19 02:15:11 AM  
We are no more at risk of running out of people than we are of stupidity.
 
2013-02-19 02:18:42 AM  
Thomas Malthus laughs last and longest
 
2013-02-19 02:22:36 AM  

pippi longstocking: We are no more at risk of running out of people than we are of stupidity.


I sort of agree, but I think the problem may be that we are running out of smart people because the stupid ones are out-breeding them.
 
2013-02-19 02:25:20 AM  
And it's always the fault of rampant abortion.

There have been approximately 54 million abortions since RvW.

Meanwhile, there have been approximately 160 million births.

We're still ahead of the curve.

Most women today don't have children because THEY DON'T WANT TO.

I didn't have children for the same reason.

Children are a pain in the arse.
 
2013-02-19 02:25:39 AM  

Big Ramifications: Big Ramifications:


You forgot to change socks, puppet.
 
2013-02-19 02:26:20 AM  

Amos Quito: super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


"Only when we interbreed to the point that there are no distinguishable "races" will we achieve true "diversity" via a the miracle of a mongrelized monoculture".

Right?


Who are you quoting?
 
2013-02-19 02:30:34 AM  

Generation_D: Says the guy that quotes Breitbart as evidence in arguments.


you  got me mixed up with somebody else. I do economics...not politics. sometimes data comes from  right leaning sites, sometimes it comes from the left leaning sites.

My view is capitalism will be "dead" within 50 years. Post-scarcity is almost up on us. Artificial scarcity (outer-space activities) is our only hope of survival because of the human need of pecking order will not work.
Money in its current form will not work.
We are heading towards a meritocracy.
Which is fine by me.
 
2013-02-19 02:39:17 AM  
i845.photobucket.com
They would like a word with you.
/hot
 
2013-02-19 02:42:32 AM  

Ishkur: HeadLever: Problem is, what do you replace it with?

Well, the Age of Post-Scarcity is coming, and it will be a slow burn over a couple hundred years rather than a complete overhaul within a single generation, which is how all economic systems transform into new ones (ie: Manorialism--->Mercantilism--->Capitalism). And it's going to start with the biggest issue of the 21st century (besides overpopulation, global warming, and dwindling resources): Employment.

As automation replaces the jobs that humans used to do, we're going to see an increasing amount of society capable of running itself. And when it gets to a point where only a fraction of full-time jobs exist and the system is capable of supporting up to 80% unemployment without totally collapsing1.

Why do we work? To make money, obviously. Why do we want to make money? So we can buy stuff that makes our lives more comfortable. Why does this stuff cost money? Because there is only so much of it about. If there's not enough of something, it has value. It's worth something. Rarity is expensive. Everything abundant is worthless. It is free. I'll come back to this point later.

10,000 years ago, 100% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the tribe.
5,000 years ago, 80% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the city-state.
1,000 years ago, 60% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the kingdom.
200 years ago, 40% of the population worked on providing enough food to sustain everyone in the country.
Today, less than 10% of our population actively work on providing enough food for the rest of us.

This level of efficiency will soon spread to all industries. Automation, industrial processes, manufacturing and mass production will provide for all, with very little human labor required. Some companies are already so streamlined and efficient that they can execute business operations and move product with a skeleto ...


damn....missed this post.
/we are on the same page with one exception
//it is coming a hell of a lot quicker than you think
///why?...because I and others have dedicated our lives to make it happen.... very soon.
////will we succeed? odds are against us, but we will die trying.
 
2013-02-19 02:45:43 AM  
Is a world without white people really worth saving?
 
2013-02-19 02:46:44 AM  

Hickory-smoked: Big Ramifications: Big Ramifications:

You forgot to change socks, puppet.


Sock puppets are for morans. I just felt like yelling at clouds.
 
2013-02-19 03:19:03 AM  
The latest victim is the United States, which until recently was proud of its big, corn-fed families, but discovered last year that the economic crisis and constricted immigration have pushed its average family size down to 1.9 children, below the 2.1 needed for population stability.

Actually, the US gives precisely zero farks.  We have such high demand for immigration that we could be running at like 0.2 children per adult parent and we'd  still  be maintaining population growth without even trying, even in a down economy.
 
2013-02-19 03:35:03 AM  

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


This is trolling, right?

Or have you truly not read any non-white history at all?

People are oppressors because they're people, not because of their skin color.
 
2013-02-19 03:52:55 AM  
I wont read the whole thread but my thoughts are this- there are too many humans as it is, and they keep expanding at a rate that their home ( and only ) world can sustain. Im not pointing at a single colour/ race, but the species overall. We are fast approaching a tipping point, as even as the old die off- it doesnt help as far as resource expinditures go- they will still require land for burial. and most want a lawn on a grave...
Carlin had a few points, but- why not graveyard golfcourses ? The statuary could help a handicap, and we only use half the water and land.

I personally think that  the ideal human population for this planet based on size and resources is 1 billion max. Maybe 2, but they do breed like rabbits .. . . ..
Or there will be wars over many things, unless everyone collectively makes sure that every being has potable water and edible food. I do not see that happening. sigh
 
2013-02-19 03:53:39 AM  

Big Ramifications: Hickory-smoked: Big Ramifications: Big Ramifications:

You forgot to change socks, puppet.

Sock puppets are for morans. I just felt like yelling at clouds.


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-19 04:27:47 AM  

mr lawson: Generation_D: Says the guy that quotes Breitbart as evidence in arguments.

you  got me mixed up with somebody else. I do economics...not politics.


  It's nearly impossible to separate the two, and get any useful real-world results.
 
2013-02-19 04:38:50 AM  

Dafatone: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.

This.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal recently that began by saying "hey, the middle class is vanishing because of birth rates!  Let's use 'white and college educated' as a stand-in for middle class, because that's what we think when we think middle class."

fark the WSJ and fark this line of thinking.


s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-02-19 04:57:50 AM  

mr lawson: Generation_D: Says the guy that quotes Breitbart as evidence in arguments.

you  got me mixed up with somebody else. I do economics...not politics. sometimes data comes from  right leaning sites, sometimes it comes from the left leaning sites.

My view is capitalism will be "dead" within 50 years. Post-scarcity is almost up on us. Artificial scarcity (outer-space activities) is our only hope of survival because of the human need of pecking order will not work.
Money in its current form will not work.
We are heading towards a meritocracy.
Which is fine by me.


Yeah, Marx said that a while back. I think he said something about money and pecking orders not working either.
 
2013-02-19 05:13:06 AM  

Stone Meadow: IOW, we're going to top out at about 50% higher than we are now.


Worth watching:

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_religions_and_babies.html

"We are still debating peak oil, but we have definitely reached peak child."
=Smidge=
 
2013-02-19 05:49:41 AM  
Don't worry, people, I'm here to help. I well simply require as many young, fertile females as you can find to be brought to me at once!
 
2013-02-19 05:56:56 AM  

Atomic Spunk: Open your legs, ladies. I'm here to help the country.


Not sure why but my first thought was the song from Grease 2 "let's do it for our country"
 
2013-02-19 05:57:19 AM  
People are stupid. The only reason we have thrived this long is we are the biggest assholes on the planet.

If the other life on this planet had any sentience, they would band together and destroy us. We are the biggest threat this planet has faced since the  P-Tr.
 
2013-02-19 05:59:09 AM  

PunGent: Or have you truly not read any non-white history at all?


Well, to be fair the white oppressors didn't even allow it until 1976 and then only for 28-29 days per year but that was only for blacks. Latinos and Asians aren't taught at all in US schools except for Pearl Harbor and the Alamo and those were a long time ago.
 
2013-02-19 06:06:39 AM  
Meh. If we don't reduce our numbers by having fewer children, we'll die off in a massive population crunch. I prefer the "fewer babies" way.

The politicians and bean-counters are just going to have to find a way to make our economies work when a sizable chunk of the populace is elderly.
 
2013-02-19 06:11:10 AM  
There seems to be the attitude that "all old folks need to be looked after." My mother's in her late eighties and still lives independantly, my dad worked full-time into his sixties and part-time into his seventies, and my next-door neighbour right into his eightieth year was still working in his garage almost every day and up on his roof checking shingles every summer. He'd still be doing that if cancer hadn't gotten him.
Get a hobby, keep your mind active, and chances are pretty good you won't end your days drooling in a chair in a nursing home. Number one killer of old folks is boredom.
 
2013-02-19 06:31:08 AM  

Dumski: From the Wikipedia article on ZPG (Zero Population Growth)

In the late 1960s ZPG became a big political movement in the U.S. and parts of Europe, with strong links to environmentalism and feminism. Yale University was a stronghold of the ZPG activists who believed "that a constantly increasing population is responsible for many of our problems: pollution, violence, loss of values and of individual privacy."[8] Founding fathers of the movement were Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb, and Thomas Eisner. Ehrlich stated: "The mother of the year should be a sterlized woman with two adopted children."

My father was an OB/GYN in the '60s and 70's. I remember him wearing a ZPG button on his lab coat.
That was the thinking post baby boom, and he was a supporter of that cause. Geez Dad, what a waste of time.


This is why it's bad to rely on Wikipedia....and this crap sounds more like Conservapedia.

"Big movement"???    Please...name a single US congressman elected on a ZPG platform in the last five decades.

Hell, name a single US dogcatcher elected on that platform, I'll be impressed...
 
2013-02-19 07:19:24 AM  

Ima4nic8or: I always thought that the concerns about "overpopulation" were overblown hippie drivel and this pretty much confirms that.  The "issue" has disappeared overnight, just like the good ole ozone hole scare, and just like the global warming scare will at some point.


Yeah, it's cool how those things were fixed entirely by themselves.
 
2013-02-19 07:26:35 AM  
I remember the ice age panic or global cooling in the 70s..."they" wanted to paint the poles black to absorb more heat.

Those scientists...
 
2013-02-19 07:42:07 AM  

HeadLever: Marcus Aurelius: Can you please point out exactly where I am mistaken?

If you like ever expanding population in your neck of the woods, why not welcome in the immigrants with open arms?

And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.

What do green lights have to do with this argument?


Apparently only by your submission of green lights will your words have any legitimacy.
 
2013-02-19 07:43:02 AM  
Stop breeding stupid people.
Stop breeding, stupid people.
Stop, breeding stupid people.
 
2013-02-19 07:45:04 AM  

Amos Quito: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.






"Dreams of the future of humanity"

Paradise, eh, GAT_00?


Huh, an overt racist. You don't see too many of those these days.
 
2013-02-19 07:49:13 AM  

HeadLever: Elmo Jones: When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

So, pretty much everyone then, right?


Ah the rich smell of butthurt over slavery, disregard whites enslaving their own kind for ages before this 400 year tyranny. Vikings, English/irish.
Please tell me more about your sense of entitlement.
 
2013-02-19 07:55:50 AM  

Azlefty: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!


And leave diapers strewn about in front of my house, which they refuse to pick up despite being the only people living on this block who actually have diaper wearing spawn.
 
2013-02-19 08:05:40 AM  

heili skrimsli: Azlefty: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!

And leave diapers strewn about in front of my house, which they refuse to pick up despite being the only people living on this block who actually have diaper wearing spawn.


Have them gathered and left lovingly on their front porch. Set it alight if you need to.
 
2013-02-19 08:08:29 AM  
I had a kid once.

Once.
 
2013-02-19 08:13:15 AM  

Nacc: heili skrimsli: Azlefty: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!

And leave diapers strewn about in front of my house, which they refuse to pick up despite being the only people living on this block who actually have diaper wearing spawn.

Have them gathered and left lovingly on their front porch. Set it alight if you need to.


The rainy conditions today are not conducive to blazing diapergrams, and I really don't want that thing in my house so it can dry out.
 
2013-02-19 08:18:02 AM  

Stone Meadow: Happy Hours: I'm sure we as a species will survive but we're going to have issues with population.

I see your...

[www.endangeredspecieshandbook.org image 394x263]

And raise you with what the UN actually thinks is going to happen...

[thehaberboschprocess.files.wordpress.com image 440x306]

IOW, we're going to top out at about 50% higher than we are now.

Scary graphs are scary?


Your graph is wrong as well, we will not continue to increase, it's not possible.  You will see a downturn in the next 5 years.
 
2013-02-19 08:21:05 AM  
Germany spends 200 billion euros a year trying to get more people to have babies

i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-19 08:26:45 AM  

heili skrimsli: Nacc: heili skrimsli: Azlefty: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!

And leave diapers strewn about in front of my house, which they refuse to pick up despite being the only people living on this block who actually have diaper wearing spawn.

Have them gathered and left lovingly on their front porch. Set it alight if you need to.

The rainy conditions today are not conducive to blazing diapergrams, and I really don't want that thing in my house so it can dry out.


New manger scene prop. Jesus would leave his poopydeuces all over peoples yards you just don't even know
 
2013-02-19 08:31:09 AM  

gingerjet: When I was in elementry school in the 80s two things were taught - we will run out of oil by the year 2000 and over population will destroy this planet  And here we are - happily plugging along.

/lets talk about real problems like climat change and feed people - both are political problems


So, you don't think that overpopulation is a real problem and will eventually destroy this planet?  Seriously?

*elementary
*overpopulation
*climate
*feeding
 
2013-02-19 09:18:45 AM  

squidgod2000: Germany spends 200 billion euros a year trying to get more people to have babies

[i.imgur.com image 500x271]


I got yer citations right here, sonny.

Spiegel, citing the 200 billion euro figure

Irish Times on the birth rate decline

Forbes, last May

NPR segment on the topic.

Aaaand.... Time, May 2010.
 
2013-02-19 09:28:55 AM  
greenobles.com

Can you hold off your rutting, till we figure out this food/air deal !!!
 
2013-02-19 10:52:25 AM  
When non-whites reach a certain minimum threshold standard of living, their birth rates immediately fall to the same low levels middle-class whites have.  The most important factor in birth rates isn't race, it is standard of living.
 
2013-02-19 11:52:20 AM  

ChuDogg: If you look at current and projected water shortages its simple to see that over-population is a real problem and there are not enough resources to sustain our current global population, never mind an additional few billion.

Babyboomers not being able to retire to a jet setting life of luxory like medieval Royalty shouldn't be the arbitrator of policies.  Unfortunately it is and western civilization looks to be committing suicide because of it.


This!

Overpopulation is a problem, if we got down to a billion people I'm sure we'd have a much better chance of sustaining human life on Earth over a long period of time.

Our current rate of growth is not sustainable, and will eventually cause our extinction.
 
2013-02-19 12:15:42 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Amos Quito: GAT_00: Only if you're worried about the ratio of white people to everyone else.


"Dreams of the future of humanity"

Paradise, eh, GAT_00?

Huh, an overt racist
. You don't see too many of those these days.



Yeah, I sometimes wonder how GAT_00 has the courage to show his face around here.
 
2013-02-19 12:22:15 PM  
Who the hell can manage more than a couple of children when both parents work?  Not I.  Not if I want to maintain a decent job performance and give enough attention to each child.  Plus, frankly, I am really over the whole diaper thing.  It was fun and babies are cute, but I am ready to embrace a future free of poopy butts.
 
2013-02-19 01:01:59 PM  

FizixJunkee: Fubini: Fertility panic isn't so much related to overpopulation as it is to funding the old people's pensions. If we don't have enough young people we're going to have to go all soylent green on the old folks homes.

I hate to admit it, but THIS.

You know, my grandparents as well as the other Junkee's grandparents are managing to their live old-aged lives better than any of their grandchildren are living our young lives.  They all have pensions, Social Security, savings, homes paid for, etc.  Not a single one of them had student loan debt or struggled to pay for childcare ($1,325/month here in Los Angeles).  They were able to buy decent homes on a single income rather than struggle to afford a mortgage on two incomes.


THIS!

However, lowering the population is a great thing and is going to lead to higher wages and less poverty, just like after WW2 and the black death. The average worker will be in a position of power again.

My generation has been nickled and dimed to death and I was able to avoid a lot of it thanks to my parents. However, my generation and Gen X are in a bad state.

Baby Boomers aren't in a great state themselves, many haven't saved enough for retirement, had what little they had eaten by the stock market, and have too much "invested" in their house. I'm not sure if this is going to lead to a price crashes or a "hording" situation (won't sell house because it's "worth more"). Boomers are going to delay retirement, which is going to hurt their kids' advancement.

I expect to see many more multi-generational living situations and many people my age completely opting out of parenthood, if they have a kid it's going to be 1 or 2, due to daycare costing as much as a college education.

/Going to be a rough couple of decades
//Buckle up
 
2013-02-19 01:27:44 PM  

lolpix: Google up "The Pivot of Civilization" by Margaret Sanger. You'll get an interesting backstory about the theory of overpopulation,  eugenics, abortion and birth control, Planned Parenthood, and -- believe it or not -- the New World Order. The gist of the argument is that birth rates are too high among the wrong sorts of people, and too low among the better classes. But don't take my word for it. Google.


It's why the republicans are starting to get scared and are focusing on banning planned parenthood, etc again. In their heads only white girls get abortions and use BC (for serious, Rush Limbaugh told them so). Welfare queens keep popping out kids so they don't use it anyway.

Also, less people means higher salaries, and businesses can't have that.

/people are weird
 
2013-02-19 02:59:37 PM  

Nacc: Please tell me more about your sense of entitlement.


Please tell me what I have asked you for.
These threads are very educational. They tell me which people's opinion's aren't worth a tinker's damn. Plus they remind me of all the worn-out tropes of closet-cases.
Can anyone tell me the name of a slave that they're related to?
 
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