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(Hot Air)   Remember when overpopulation was going to kill us all? Now we're in the age of the "fertility panic"   (hotair.com) divider line 316
    More: Obvious, law of diminishing returns  
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11868 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2013 at 9:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-18 10:18:07 PM

Ishkur: MugzyBrown: Actually the structure of the faulty economics (not capitalism) put in place by most western gov'ts is what needs constant growth. Capitalism does not.

Explain.

(keep in mind that Capitalism relies on scarcity to operate and will be naturally cast aside in the distant future anyway as we approach post-scarcity civilization)


I applaud you for always trying to explain economics to most of these people. You have a lot more patience than i.  They took maybe one macro course and then parrot the economic talking point (classical vs Keynesian)  of whichever side of the political spectrum they fall on. I gave up  a long time ago.
 
2013-02-18 10:19:07 PM
Oh yes, we must force the poors to has more children so we can keep the unsustainable (tea tards love that word) inter-generational, pyramid scheme going a little longer.
 
2013-02-18 10:19:44 PM

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


Wow- it's rare that I see a true 10/10 on the Troll-o-meter, but I think you may have managed it.  The only thing I might take off points for is lack of mention of the rise of womyn and how they'll overthrow the patriarchy through vagina power.
 
2013-02-18 10:19:49 PM

studebaker hoch: When did "white and college educated" become a bad thing?


Since self-hating white people.
 
2013-02-18 10:20:28 PM

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


That is a very good troll.  I'd give it a 7/10.
 
2013-02-18 10:21:38 PM
Hey, super_grass, why don't you start the righteous stripping away of the oppressor's wealth and power with yourself?

Why do you hate the human race so much?

/who gives a sh*t what colour the outside is? we all bleed the same red stuff.
 
2013-02-18 10:22:45 PM
The more of these miserable, flea bitten, nasty ass, over indulgent, perpetually adolescent, resource wasting humans there are on the planet, the more people there are literally standing on the face of what could be a beautiful, loving, planet-being that is crying because there are too many people standing on her magnificent face.  If more people would kill off more people or just die or suicide and let the intelligent, nurturing creatures like cats and dogs being to thrive, the Earth might be reborn with a renewed spirit of love, trust and respect for one another.  All characteristics absent from the human species.  I could see a world where all around are animals, caring for their young, teaching the next generation, helping others in need, and me.  Naked.
 
2013-02-18 10:22:49 PM
What do you want? The prime child rearing generation right now is Y and they are stuck living with the parents that raised them because jobs that did pay a living wage were downsized and ship to china. So they can't afford an apartment, a car, or their own family.
 
2013-02-18 10:23:09 PM

Kittypie070: Hey, super_grass, why don't you start the righteous stripping away of the oppressor's wealth and power with yourself?

Why do you hate the human race so much?

/who gives a sh*t what colour the outside is? we all bleed the same red stuff.


Not me. I bleed green.

/live long and prosper
//peace and long life
 
2013-02-18 10:23:11 PM

basemetal: More than 6 billion people in the world, we wont run out any time soon.

/governments are more worried about future tax revenue


Too bad you're a billion short
 
2013-02-18 10:23:26 PM
Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people.  Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves.  They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care.  They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work.  No one should be surprised by this.
 
2013-02-18 10:24:42 PM

trappedspirit: The more of these miserable, flea bitten, nasty ass, over indulgent, perpetually adolescent, resource wasting humans there are on the planet, the more people there are literally standing on the face of what could be a beautiful, loving, planet-being that is crying because there are too many people standing on her magnificent face.  If more people would kill off more people or just die or suicide and let the intelligent, nurturing creatures like cats and dogs being to thrive, the Earth might be reborn with a renewed spirit of love, trust and respect for one another.  All characteristics absent from the human species.  I could see a world where all around are animals, caring for their young, teaching the next generation, helping others in need, and me.  Naked.


That's some hot shiat right there.

i4.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-18 10:24:45 PM

HeadLever: Marcus Aurelius: Can you please point out exactly where I am mistaken?

If you like ever expanding population in your neck of the woods, why not welcome in the immigrants with open arms?

And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.

What do green lights have to do with this argument?


It's how some Farker's measure penis size
 
2013-02-18 10:24:57 PM

Maximer: Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.


Those damn poor people. They catch all the breaks.

/"Lucky Ducky! Grr..."
 
2013-02-18 10:25:21 PM
So in a few years we'll all be able to have super low wage workers because there will be so many uneducated nitwits, and plus us white folks will be able to start cashing in on all the discrimination, affirmative action and all that......right on.
 
2013-02-18 10:26:15 PM
gods damn I fed the trolly troll.

shiat.
 
xcv
2013-02-18 10:26:47 PM

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


I'm not even white and I mourn the loss of Young White Women that are in sharp decline against the world's total population.  Nearly every heterosexual man of every ethnicity prefers them, with increased competition for a shrinking supply, YWW are going to become an extremely valuable commodity on the planet, again. Wars were fought over them in the past, hopefully 3D printers and gene expression therapy will solve some of the demand.
 
2013-02-18 10:27:02 PM

Acravius: Uncontrolled birth rate - Panic! 1910's to 1970's
One of the stated reason for German Expansionism and Japanese Expansionism was the need for space for population growth. Japan feared a 1975 population projection estimating 106 million people, and Germans we're augmenting their argument that Liebensraum (space for the growth of the Germanic peoples could be carved out of Eastern Europe). Population growth models for both were very close to being accurate (5% variance), but those economies absorbed and utilized all methodologies including massive trade in food for technology and wealth to power through their population growth and indstrial/economic development.

Industrialized Country Reproductive Rate Falls - Panic, 2000 to present
The graying of the industrialized countries does pose a challenge, but it isn't one that can't be overcome by proper planning.

The biggest real problem in America isn't a population issue directly, it is that we've built our primary infrastructure in the country flat and wide, instead of compactly/vertically. The 'burbs literally are consuming all of our resources, fuel to travel, supermarket/superstore sprawl, school bussing, home to work travel.
If we reformatted our cities to be vertical, NYC would only need to cover 1 square mile providing 5000 square ft of apartment space per family of 4 in 20,000 58 story buildings (allowing for 5600 58 story buildings for commercial/industrial and food production/distribution, hospitals, emergency services etc). If we were to take this compact approach, we could reduce the needed infrastructure of the city by nearly 10,000 combined miles of roads, subways, bus lines not to mention all of the other government investments like school properties, police, fire and emergency service vehicles, etc. Literally we could do away with supporting 90% of our current expenditure of time and money, by making our cities vertical instead of sprawling wastelands.
Imagine the exact same scenario in LA, and we are ta ...


LOL. How do you grow food to feed that population density, or get clean water into the system? Just tell farmers: You won't see people at all but just continue growing. Additionally the travel costs of food is going to be ridiculous.

Basically, we're farked unless we can find a cure for what ails us (Oil addiction).
 
2013-02-18 10:27:07 PM
> giving $1,000 a month for a year to any mother willing to have a third child

$1,000 month for 12 months? That's it.

Hell no. Still nowhere near worth it.

$2,000 a month for 20 years.

And if you miss a single payment at any time during those 20 years, I'm dropping the future wage earner off at the nearest hospital for you to care for.
 
2013-02-18 10:27:53 PM

Happy Hours: HeadLever: Marcus Aurelius: Can you please point out exactly where I am mistaken?

If you like ever expanding population in your neck of the woods, why not welcome in the immigrants with open arms?

And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.

What do green lights have to do with this argument?

It's how some Farker's measure penis size


Typical. They should just use meters, like me.
 
2013-02-18 10:28:08 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Maximer: Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.

Those damn poor people. They catch all the breaks.

/"Lucky Ducky! Grr..."


For many years I worked in a very poor area.  I started off as a progressive individual who felt that the poor in America were only poor because of their environment.  However, as I spent more time working in that area it became more and more obvious that their continued poverty was due to their own actions and poor choices.  My sympathy for them have diminished drastically.

Now, go to a third world country where they experience true poverty and that's a different story.  American "poverty" is unique.
 
2013-02-18 10:28:17 PM
super_grass:
/Obama is a whitey

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.


Stop. Talking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
 
2013-02-18 10:28:27 PM

Kittypie070: gods damn I fed the trolly troll.

shiat.


BAD KITTY! NO!
 
2013-02-18 10:28:38 PM

super_grass: Translation: white people are being bred out.

And as a progressive humanist, all I can say is: good. White people are oppressors, and they should have a taste of their own medicine at the hands of their victims.  I can't wait to see the day when Europe and America is majority nonwhite and their wealth and power stripped away. Only by then could the world be a peaceful and diverse society free of hate.


Or ... brown people are breeding themselves into new depths of poverty and dragging the rest of the world down with them.  Lots of different ways you could look at it.  I'd say both ways of looking at it are shamefully racist.  Reproduction shouldn't be about different races trying to out produce the others.  That's such a retarded backward way of looking at the world, it's shocking to find a neanderthal still lurking around in 2013.
 
2013-02-18 10:30:05 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Those damn poor people. They catch all the breaks.

/"Lucky Ducky! Grr..."


Your snark aside, hopefully, even you would agree it is bad public policy to incentivise the creation of large families by poor people.
 
2013-02-18 10:30:27 PM

Marcus Aurelius:
And then tell me exactly how many green lights you have.


When I was in high school, I had an argument with a classmate in history class about the French Revolution. After I made what I felt was a really good point, the guy who was arguing with me asked me how many scout merit badges I had, and if I had attained the rank of Eagle Scout. The entire class started to laugh at this idiot, who honestly thought that his merit badges and Eagle Scout ranking could help him to win an argument. That was very similar to what you've done here. That kid was only 16 years old, though, so his ignorance is somewhat forgivable. How old are you?
 
2013-02-18 10:31:16 PM

Maximer: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people.  Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves.  They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care.  They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work.  No one should be surprised by this.


If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.
 
2013-02-18 10:31:25 PM

Maximer: Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people.  Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves.  They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care.  They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work.  No one should be surprised by this.


It's as if you watched this movie already....

cdn-9.nflximg.com
 
2013-02-18 10:32:40 PM

StopLurkListen: super_grass:
/Obama is a whitey

What do you get when you mix half a cup of water and half a cup of coffee?

Think about it.

Stop. Talking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule


i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-02-18 10:32:49 PM

ghare: If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.


You do realize that most of america's poor is white, right?
 
2013-02-18 10:33:44 PM

GAT_00: Koodz: I'm with Gat on this one.  I see white racists complain about being out-bred by the browns all the time and all I can think is, "You can't stand your own women enough to fark them.  It's almost like subconsciously you aren't convinced of your own superiority after all."

Have you ever seen an attractive white supremacist?


i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

/wat?
 
2013-02-18 10:34:01 PM
Poor and under educated people have large families because the government provides a financial incentive for that group of people. Also, they start having children at a much younger age.

Meanwhile, the educated and working class of people are busy receiving and education and building a career for themselves. They usually have kids later in life and at a time when perhaps they can only have one or two kids.

Of course, the poor people don't care. They receive government handouts and are comfortable living in poor environments so long as they aren't required to do any real work. No one should be surprised by this.



So how do you explain Mormons? they pop out crotch fruit like Pez dispensers!
 
2013-02-18 10:34:43 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: ghare: If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.

You do realize that most of america's poor is white, right?


And as an aside... I never mentioned any racial group in my comments.  Any preconceptions about which racial group I'm speaking of is really a reflection of the reader of my comments than it is about me.
 
2013-02-18 10:35:07 PM

Happy Hours: Stone Meadow: Scary graphs are scary?

Well, that is a longer term projection but it doesn't seem that unrealistic. I think there's probably an upper bound on life span and we're probably fairly close to it (just what I believe).

The graph I posted doesn't project as far into the future. But with recent (industrial age) growth trends you'd expect some issues.


I was snarkily pointing out that posting such data that ends 15 years ago is irresponsible given the asymptotic appearance of the graph you posted, since we now know that population grow is collapsing everywhere...even in the developing world.

And while I agree that we will face some issues, I think they won't be the issues you cite. Rather than industrial age growth, I think what will happen is that as births continue to plummet we will see a concordant increase in lifespans that prevent any precipitous drop in population. Hardly a month goes by that one does not read of yet another major breakthrough in genomics, and sooner or later that pace of progress will result in significant extension of human lifespans.

I just hope I'm around to see it!
 
2013-02-18 10:35:56 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: ghare: If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.

You do realize that most of america's poor is white, right?


NO WAY! Only Those People are poor and take handouts, not US!

/Yeah, I know, I worked for an organization that provided services to the poor in rural America.
 
2013-02-18 10:36:35 PM
Increasing your tax base without increasing global population?

WELCOME IMMIGRANTS.
 
2013-02-18 10:36:50 PM

Maximer: Britney Spear's Speculum: ghare: If only there were some sort of...solution. One to end this. A final solution is what we need for Them.

You do realize that most of america's poor is white, right?

And as an aside... I never mentioned any racial group in my comments.  Any preconceptions about which racial group I'm speaking of is really a reflection of the reader of my comments than it is about me.


... there is no specific racial group I'm referencing.

/realize that first one didn't come out the way I intended after I posted it
 
2013-02-18 10:37:15 PM
www.goobacks.com
 
2013-02-18 10:37:51 PM
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-last-demographic s -immigration-20130208,0,4785134.story

When it comes to immigration, demographers have a general rule of thumb: Countries with fertility rates below the replacement level tend to attract immigrants, not send them. And so, when a country's fertility rate collapses, it often ceases to be a source of immigration.

Many Latin American countries have already fallen below the replacement level. It's not a coincidence that sub-replacement countries - such as Uruguay, Chile, Brazil and Costa Rica - send the U.S. barely any immigrants at all. The vast majority of our immigrants come from above-replacement countries, such as Honduras, El Salvador, Colombia, Guatemala and Mexico.

But even though they're still above-replacement, those countries are witnessing epic fertility declines too.

Consider Mexico, which over the last 30 years has sent roughly two-thirds of all the immigrants - legal and illegal - who came to the United States. In 1970, the Mexican fertility rate was 6.72. Today, it's hovering at the 2.1 mark - a drop of nearly 70% in just two generations. And it's still falling.

The result is that from 2005 to 2010, the U.S. received a net of zero immigrants from Mexico. Certainly some of that change can be attributed to the Great Recession, particularly the slowdown in construction and the housing industry. But we may also be witnessing the beginning of a structural change in our immigration relationship.

It's important to understand that Mexico's experience is not unique but rather is part of a global phenomenon. Today, 97% of the world's population lives in countries where the fertility rate is falling. And once a country's fertility rate starts dropping, it nearly always settles far below the replacement level. And because of this, most demographic models project that the world's population will peak sometime before the end of this century, and then begin contracting - for the first time since the Black Death ravaged Europe.


www.motherjones.com
 
2013-02-18 10:37:56 PM
Those claiming that the worry about declining population is primarily related to race should take a look at worldwide growth rates - fertility is declining everywhere, not just in "white person world."  UN projections put peak population as happening sometime in the next 20-30 years or so, possibly more quickly than that.  Immigration can't make up the difference forever - indeed we're already seeing that in the US, with Mexican immigration dropping significantly due to a combination of the economic crisis, combined with rising living standards in Mexico (due in part to falling fertility rates).  I don't put a value judgment on whether declining populations worldwide will be bad or good, but it will certainly be different - it's probably never happened before (yeah, black death, etc., but plagues, famines, and so on generally only impacted one region at any given time), and certainly not voluntarily.  We're walking into uncharted territory here and I think it's a bit Pollyanna-ish to think that it's not going to cause major changes.  Change can be good, but it can also be bad - hopefully we'll get the good kind, but we should prepare for the bad, just in case.
 
2013-02-18 10:39:14 PM
the fact that the corporate media lives off of corporate advertising purchases, which are tied to corporate profits, which are increased by lower wages, which are lowered by mass immigration from the third world, this is purely coincidental.

/total co-ink-e-dink
//go fark yerselves, online idiots
 
2013-02-18 10:40:15 PM
Remember when overpopulation was going to kill us all?

Remember when HotAir was a credible source?

/me neither.
 
2013-02-18 10:40:15 PM
Got snipped when I turned 18. We already pay people to have babies. It's not working out very well. Article is farking stupid.
 
2013-02-18 10:40:33 PM

amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?


When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.
 
2013-02-18 10:40:58 PM

mr lawson: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Those damn poor people. They catch all the breaks.

/"Lucky Ducky! Grr..."

Your snark aside, hopefully, even you would agree it is bad public policy to incentivise the creation of large families by poor people.


I think the creation of large families by poor people is going to happen whether they're incentivized or not. Be it from lack of education, lack of access to health care and contraception, or just a general fatalistic local culture, those kids are going to be born and likely end up in the same environment that birthed them. I find it hard to believe that anything but an extremely small subset of welfare and support recipients take their social service possibilities into account before deciding whether or not to have a child (or multiple for that matter).

"Come to bed, Terry. I want another extra hundred bucks a week from the welfare office."
"Oh baby. You know just what to say to turn me on."
 
2013-02-18 10:42:50 PM
www.kellyocg.com

media.economist.com
 
2013-02-18 10:43:18 PM

Elmo Jones: When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.


So, pretty much everyone then, right?
 
2013-02-18 10:44:21 PM

Elmo Jones: amquelbettamin: Can I play the white male race card yet?

When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.


How far back do we get to go? I was never a slave nor a slaveowner, but my ancestors have been both. What's the statute of limitations for playing the victim card for people who died generations before you were born?
 
2013-02-18 10:44:53 PM

xcv: I'm not even white and I mourn the loss of Young White Women that are in sharp decline against the world's total population. Nearly every heterosexual man of every ethnicity prefers them, with increased competition for a shrinking supply, YWW are going to become an extremely valuable commodity on the planet, again. Wars were fought over them in the past, hopefully 3D printers and gene expression therapy will solve some of the demand.


Cool More Hot Latinas FOR ME!


0.tqn.com

us.cdn001.fansshare.com
cdn01.cdn.egotastic.com

I welcome my new Minority overlords, wash me and send me to their room
 
2013-02-18 10:45:59 PM

HeadLever: Elmo Jones: When your descendants have been enslaved, brutalized, and have lost their names, for 300 years. Until then, STFU.

So, pretty much everyone then, right?


My ancestors were neanderthals and you people murdered them all.
 
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