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(Opposing Views)   Sorry kids, but Rep. Marsha Blackburn opposes Obama's preschool education plan because of "more paperwork"   (opposingviews.com) divider line 127
    More: Asinine, President Obama, school education, CSPAN, pre, Washington Journal  
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2099 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Feb 2013 at 7:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-18 02:40:36 PM  
If Oklahoma and Georgia can do it, any of you other cousing farking states can do it.
 
2013-02-18 02:51:32 PM  
Federal govt. to states: "Here, have some money."

States: "This is too hard!!!!"

Ummmm... OK?
 
2013-02-18 02:53:36 PM  
When did this become a big issue?  I swear, people just invented problems so they can generate fear, pass laws and raise taxes.
 
2013-02-18 03:05:04 PM  
The last thing the gop wants is an educated public that can think for themselves, rather than getting their opinion from faux nuze, rush and ann c.
 
2013-02-18 03:35:51 PM  
More lettuce.... FrizliE like.
 
2013-02-18 03:55:30 PM  

netizencain: When did this become a big issue?  I swear, people just invented problems so they can generate fear, pass laws and raise taxes.


Don't forget about putting people in prison to fill quotas.
 
2013-02-18 05:29:58 PM  
Palin wannabe.

God knows why.
 
2013-02-18 05:31:07 PM  
Republicans are bad and they should feel bad.
 
2013-02-18 05:35:22 PM  
To be fair, too much paperwork is a valid excuse for most things.  I don't think it works here but still, I understand the sentiment.
 
2013-02-18 05:38:54 PM  
I bet you she doesn't like to read the legislation she votes on.
 
2013-02-18 05:39:28 PM  

netizencain: When did this become a big issue?  I swear, people just invented problems so they can generate fear, pass laws and raise taxes.


It was suggested by the opposition
 
2013-02-18 05:48:48 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Palin wannabe.

God knows why.


She's had this persona long before Palin was around.  She's been in the House since 2003.
 
2013-02-18 05:53:32 PM  
I saw this woman on the teevee the night of (or night after maybe) saying that the minimum wage was a bad thing, because there would be fewer low-paying jobs to build character and teach skills and yadd yadda yadda.  Almost everything - if not everything she said was pure crap, but the best part was when she talked about her very first job and she was paid "only" two dollars and whatever cents an hour.

Unfortunately for her, someone did the math and found out that her two dollars+ per hour translated into more than $12 an hour in current value.  link

Pretty much everything this idiot says is 100% propaganda and 0% relevant/true.
 
2013-02-18 05:54:31 PM  

Diogenes: I bet you she doesn't like to read the legislation she votes on.


She can read?!?!??! Wouldn't know it by her disastrous visits to Bloomberg.
 
2013-02-18 05:54:49 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: I saw this woman on the teevee the night of (or night after maybe)

the SOTU speech saying that the minimum wage was a bad thing...
 
2013-02-18 05:55:47 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Almost everything - if not everything she said was pure crap


Lemme see if I can find her on Bloomberg during the financial collapse... Off to look.
 
2013-02-18 06:04:18 PM  

Blues_X: If Oklahoma and Georgia can do it, any of you other cousing farking states can do it.


The funny thing about the Oklahoma program is that the Rep in charge had to sneak it in because he knew it wouldn't get approved otherwise, and now it's universally popular.
 
2013-02-18 06:10:17 PM  
Dammit, my Google-fu only got me a link from her own site, but it goes to a Bloomberg appearance, not the one I was looking for. She's still a drooling moran.


http://blackburn.house.gov/media/tva3.htm


Link is 6th one down. Where she says "regulation has increased in the financial community." Suspend mark-to-market accounting. Etc etc etc... Totally f*cking oblivious to banks leaving all the toxic sh*t off their books and hiding their actual danger.

She's a complete idiot and should be dismissed out of hand on all things.
 
2013-02-18 06:19:26 PM  
Burdensome paperwork is a valid concern.  The failed Head Start program already has over-burdensome paperwork.  People got good reason to question whether it's a good idea to waste more money on a failed program that increases the paperwork burden on teachers.
 
2013-02-18 06:20:36 PM  

SkinnyHead: Burdensome paperwork is a valid concern.  The failed Head Start program already has over-burdensome paperwork.  People got good reason to question whether it's a good idea to waste more money on a failed program that increases the paperwork burden on teachers.


Except in this case where there is no burdensome paperwork.
 
2013-02-18 06:21:23 PM  

netizencain: When did this become a big issue?  I swear, people just invented problems so they can generate fear, pass laws and raise taxes.


This proposed legislation is based on peer-reviewed studies that show that investment in early education leads to cost-saving benefits in the future because it decreases greatly the number of students failing or repeating grades, thereby leading to a more educated workforce.
 
2013-02-18 06:25:38 PM  

coco ebert: leading to a more educated workforce.


And therein lies the problem Republicans have with it.  The higher your IQ and education, the more likely you are to vote Republican.
 
2013-02-18 06:27:57 PM  

GAT_00: The higher your IQ and education, the more likely you are to vote Republican.


I'd like to blackmail you into joining my army requesting an edit button. :)
 
2013-02-18 06:29:52 PM  

NewportBarGuy: GAT_00: The higher your IQ and education, the more likely you are to vote Republican.

I'd like to blackmail you into joining my army requesting an edit button. :)


Goddammit, and that's the second time in a week I've done something like that, said the complete opposite of what I meant.
 
2013-02-18 06:38:04 PM  
Considering that a LOT of the onerous paperwork that teachers face today is a direct result of NCLB and other "brilliant" initiatives, perhaps she should look to back legislation that allows teachers greater freedom in their classrooms, better peer review, greater professional development, and less resource draining standardized testing. Oh, and maybe get rid of the invasive attempts to teach religion in our schools and let parents who wish to inculcate their children within their faith do so at home, instead of asking the state to step in to require students be taught pseudo-science? Just a thought.

That, or maybe she should just get it out there that the world needs ditchdiggers, and abandon her "concern" for the poor teachers, and just get it out, that the plan might expose those future ditchdiggers to dreams of doing better than their fathers and mothers...
 
2013-02-18 06:38:52 PM  

NewportBarGuy: SkinnyHead: Burdensome paperwork is a valid concern.  The failed Head Start program already has over-burdensome paperwork.  People got good reason to question whether it's a good idea to waste more money on a failed program that increases the paperwork burden on teachers.

Except in this case where there is no burdensome paperwork.


People in Head Start already complain about the over-burdensome paperwork.  Expanding the program the way Obama is proposing will expand the paperwork.
 
2013-02-18 06:39:52 PM  

SkinnyHead: Expanding the program the way Obama is proposing will expand the paperwork.


*citation needed*
 
2013-02-18 06:43:36 PM  

coco ebert: netizencain: When did this become a big issue?  I swear, people just invented problems so they can generate fear, pass laws and raise taxes.

This proposed legislation is based on peer-reviewed studies that show that investment in early education leads to cost-saving benefits in the future because it decreases greatly the number of students failing or repeating grades, thereby leading to a more educated workforce.


Perry Preschool Project?


EVIDENCE OF EFFECTIVENESS
This program was evaluated in one randomized controlled trial of 128 children - 64 in the intervention group that received the preschool program, and 64 in the control group that did not.

Educational outcomes for preschool group (versus control group):
At age 27 follow-up

Completed an average of almost 1 full year more of schooling (11.9 years vs. 11 years).

Spent an average of 1.3 fewer years in special education services - e.g., for mental, emotional, speech, or learning impairment (3.9 years vs. 5.2 years).

44 percent higher high school graduation rate (65 percent vs. 45 percent)

Pregnancy outcomes for preschool group (versus control group):
At age 27 follow-up

Much lower proportion of out-of-wedlock births (57 percent vs. 83 percent).

50 percent fewer teen pregnancies on average (0.6 pregnancies/woman vs. 1.2 pregnancies/woman)

Lifetime criminal activity for preschool group (versus control group):
At age 40 follow-up

46 percent less likely to have served time in jail or prison (28% vs. 52%).
33 percent lower arrest rate for violent crimes (32% vs. 48%)

Economic outcomes for preschool group (versus control group):
At age 40 follow-up

42 percent higher median monthly income ($1,856 vs. $1,308).
26 percent less likely to have received government assistance (e.g. welfare, food stamps) in the past ten years (59% vs. 80%)
 
2013-02-18 06:44:39 PM  
Wow.  People are actually butthurt over paperwork.

Well, I guess anything's on the table when it comes to opposing Obama.

nightclubsecurityconsulting.files.wordpress.com
THANKS OBAMA
 
2013-02-18 06:47:22 PM  

GAT_00: The higher your IQ and education, the more likely you are to vote Republican.


I'm gonna guess that isn't what you meant to write.
 
2013-02-18 06:55:08 PM  
Stuff is hard.

Beurocrats afraid of paperwork. Dogs and cats, living together.
 
2013-02-18 06:55:48 PM  
Also involves a lot of paperwork:

percaritatem.com
stratrisks.com

Often for a lifetime.
 
2013-02-18 07:02:05 PM  
Think of all the hundreds of thousands of words some people, opposed to paperwork, post on Fark.  The government does have electronic forms, you know.
 
2013-02-18 07:03:00 PM  

eraser8: GAT_00: The higher your IQ and education, the more likely you are to vote Republican.

I'm gonna guess that isn't what you meant to write.


Reading a couple more posts would have cut down on the guessing, I'm guessing.
 
2013-02-18 07:06:41 PM  

GAT_00: SkinnyHead: Expanding the program the way Obama is proposing will expand the paperwork.

*citation needed*


I found this Huff Puff article where is says that people working in Head Start complain that "over 40 percent of their time is done filling out paperwork and they are not left with very much time with the children."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stella-moga/is-that-really-a-head-sta_ b_ 843917.html

And I found this here New Republic article that says:  The Head Start paperwork burden is already "ten times worse than public schools'," he told me; Barnett suggested that the Obama administration, wary of attacks on the program's supposed profligacy, has put an undue emphasis on bookkeeping.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/101959/head-start-school -c ompetition-education

I'd say that spending 40% of the time on paperwork is over-burdensome.  And given that Obama puts an "undue emphasis on bookkeeping," I think they got good reason to fear that his expansion of Head Start will include an expansion of the paperwork burden.
 
2013-02-18 07:09:53 PM  
Sure it's not as complicated as a voucher, but...
 
2013-02-18 07:10:05 PM  
Deep thoughts...
 
2013-02-18 07:12:42 PM  
Don't worry Blackburn, I got an awesome new breakthrough that will relieve all that paperwork from your hands and eliminate all need of any storage space you think you might have with this paperwork as well as save some forests too!

images.wisegeek.com
 
2013-02-18 07:18:34 PM  
Today's GOP: an endless litany of reasons WHY America can't do anything anymore, and with absolutely no suggestions for improvement.

/EVERYTHING BAD! WOE! DOOM! WE CAN'T FIX EVERYTHING SO WHY TRY TO FIX ANYTHING?
//f*ck the GOP
 
2013-02-18 07:18:53 PM  

SkinnyHead: GAT_00: SkinnyHead: Expanding the program the way Obama is proposing will expand the paperwork.

*citation needed*

I found this Huff Puff article where is says that people working in Head Start complain that "over 40 percent of their time is done filling out paperwork and they are not left with very much time with the children."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stella-moga/is-that-really-a-head-sta_ b_ 843917.html

And I found this here New Republic article that says:  The Head Start paperwork burden is already "ten times worse than public schools'," he told me; Barnett suggested that the Obama administration, wary of attacks on the program's supposed profligacy, has put an undue emphasis on bookkeeping.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/101959/head-start-school -c ompetition-education

I'd say that spending 40% of the time on paperwork is over-burdensome.  And given that Obama puts an "undue emphasis on bookkeeping," I think they got good reason to fear that his expansion of Head Start will include an expansion of the paperwork burden.


I asked for a citation for proof that the new proposal would increase paperwork.  That isn't what you answered.  But good job cherry picking your sources.

One is an editorial someone who is a multi-millionaire CEO who thinks the problem with teachers is they are lazy.

"A top-heavy percentage of these employees are lazy, with a chip on their shoulder, and downright malicious."

Just because you cited HuffPo doesn't mean you're automatically right.

Your second one says the problem is under performing educational centers are having to compete and meet standards to get funds, which is exactly what Republicans have been saying is the solution for years.

In other words, you're full of shiat with your "concerns."

But that's completely predictable.  I'm not sure why I spent this much time.
 
2013-02-18 07:20:01 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Today's GOP: an endless litany of reasons WHY America can't do anything anymore, and with absolutely no suggestions for improvement.

/EVERYTHING BAD! WOE! DOOM! WE CAN'T FIX EVERYTHING SO WHY TRY TO FIX ANYTHING?
//f*ck the GOP


The f*ck are you doing in literland with the peons?
 
2013-02-18 07:22:56 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: I saw this woman on the teevee the night of (or night after maybe) saying that the minimum wage was a bad thing, because there would be fewer low-paying jobs to build character and teach skills and yadd yadda yadda.  Almost everything - if not everything she said was pure crap, but the best part was when she talked about her very first job and she was paid "only" two dollars and whatever cents an hour.

Unfortunately for her, someone did the math and found out that her two dollars+ per hour translated into more than $12 an hour in current value.  link

Pretty much everything this idiot says is 100% propaganda and 0% relevant/true.


I read an article from some dickhead stock broker talking about working as a dishwasher for $0.50 an hour back in nineteen twenty ought oh two and how that taught him all his skills he needed to be rich and that people would become complacent on a new minimum wage...  Jesus.. Apparently $9 is living the dream...
 
2013-02-18 07:23:34 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Today's GOP: an endless litany of reasons WHY America can't do anything anymore, and with absolutely no suggestions for improvement.

/EVERYTHING BAD! WOE! DOOM! WE CAN'T FIX EVERYTHING SO WHY TRY TO FIX ANYTHING?
//f*ck the GOP


THIS. THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

Republicans love to talk one minute about how exceptional and awesome America is, and then the next minute about how America just CAN'T do the things that other nations have been doing for decades.

They talk about greatness and do everything they can to keep us from achieving it.
 
2013-02-18 07:23:49 PM  

GAT_00: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Today's GOP: an endless litany of reasons WHY America can't do anything anymore, and with absolutely no suggestions for improvement.

/EVERYTHING BAD! WOE! DOOM! WE CAN'T FIX EVERYTHING SO WHY TRY TO FIX ANYTHING?
//f*ck the GOP

The f*ck are you doing in literland with the peons?


Unfortunate timing

/renewal came up at the same time I'm moving to a new domicile
//money's a bit tight for a while
 
2013-02-18 07:24:22 PM  
Blackburn is the queen of the disembodied outraged constituent(s) that she seems to be constantly talking to and hearing from, yet we never see or hear. In other words, she is bs-ing her way through the interview. John McCain is also a classic user of this fallacy. If you listen to just about any interview with him, he will trot out the claim that everywhere he goes, all sorts of people are telling him to do XXX or YYY.

Blackburn spews the same crap. All sorts of claims of public disapproval and absolutely no backup of the facts.

Argumentum ad numerum (argument or appeal to numbers). This fallacy is the attempt to prove something by showing how many people think that it's true. But no matter how many people believe something, that doesn't necessarily make it true or right. Example: "At least 70% of all Americans support restrictions on access to abortions."

Argumentum ad populum (argument or appeal to the public). This is the fallacy of trying to prove something by showing that the public agrees with you.
 
2013-02-18 07:27:12 PM  

SkinnyHead: GAT_00: SkinnyHead: Expanding the program the way Obama is proposing will expand the paperwork.

*citation needed*

I found this Huff Puff article where is says that people working in Head Start complain that "over 40 percent of their time is done filling out paperwork and they are not left with very much time with the children."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stella-moga/is-that-really-a-head-sta_ b_ 843917.html

And I found this here New Republic article that says:  The Head Start paperwork burden is already "ten times worse than public schools'," he told me; Barnett suggested that the Obama administration, wary of attacks on the program's supposed profligacy, has put an undue emphasis on bookkeeping.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/politics/101959/head-start-school -c ompetition-education

I'd say that spending 40% of the time on paperwork is over-burdensome.  And given that Obama puts an "undue emphasis on bookkeeping," I think they got good reason to fear that his expansion of Head Start will include an expansion of the paperwork burden.


But this isn't quite Head Start any more.  And "undue emphasis on bookkeeping,"  has been called "fiscal responsibility" when the parties of the parties involved are reversed... so I'm not sure what you are getting at...
 
2013-02-18 07:28:13 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Perry Preschool Project?

EVIDENCE OF EFFECTIVENESS

...stuff...

That's the proof-of-concept pilot project, you realize, not really definitive on its own.  I would imagine they've done something more thorough to back it up since then (final results for that would have been in, what, the 80s?) to pull out the parental-interest factor that is the bane of those kinds of studies.

Anecdotally, though, yeah, pre-schooling of the type described there tends to be pretty effective, it's why the Montessori system has always been pretty profitable.  If receipts are going back up and we're looking for things to push money at, it's a better plan than more damned defense spending at least.  Though I didn't know revenue was up enough to really do either at the moment, guess we're doing better than I thought.
 
2013-02-18 07:28:20 PM  
GAT_00:

Damn, dude. Thank you

/I owe you one
 
2013-02-18 07:37:21 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: GAT_00:

Damn, dude. Thank you

/I owe you one


Nah, it's a little thing.
 
2013-02-18 07:37:26 PM  
Damn Trollbama, you the man. They are literally trying to come up with reasons why educating toddlers is a bad thing.
 
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