If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The New York Times)   The myth of America as the land of opportunity is busted by some Nobel winner   (opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 365
    More: Sad, Nobel Laureates, Ayn Rand, equality of opportunity, environmental hazards, second inaugural address, Alan Krueger, achievement gap, Stiglitz  
•       •       •

8202 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Feb 2013 at 3:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



365 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-02-18 04:35:47 PM  

GoldSpider: Well-played, sir.


Ahh, thank you. Haven't seen you around in awhile. Nice to see you back. :-)
 
2013-02-18 04:36:20 PM  
This is America, becoming a Millionaire is as easy as winning America Idol (or at least making it to the finals), being a pretty girl who can sing & posting your voice on the youtube (we sure like song), choosing the right case on a game show or inheriting it!  and if you think it's more difficult than that you're just a naysayer!

disregard every thing you see every day, going to and from work, your first job to your second, pay no attention to the thousands of people on the same freeway stuck in traffic, never you mention the neighborhoods divided by property values & incomes, this is one great country where anything can happen and more than likely will (to your advantage, never disadvantage), so please, stay focused on your success & never give up, there's 24 hours in a day and between work & school & sleep & eating, all you need to do is get in the millionaire line.

/foreigners need not apply, our unlimited success is limited to Americans only!
 
2013-02-18 04:37:17 PM  

Giltric: How will taking from them build you up?
Why bring someone else down to make you feel more equal?


For one, all that tax revenue could do amazing things like fix our ailing school system, repair our terrible infrastructure, invest in renewal energy so we can stop sending oil money to nations that hate us, provide health care to each and every American, and reinvest in our universities.

For two, it would put that money back into hte economy instead of letting it sit in off shore accounts or the stock market. HINT: investing in the stock market doesn't actually create jobs. If it did, our near-record DJIA would mean our 7.8% unemployment rate would be around 3%.

For three, it would mean all those rich assholes who can afford to spend $300 million to defeat a president would have fewer money to devote to defeating a president. Since the tax rates on our upperclass counterparts are so low, they've amassed so much wealth that they now run our government. We are a plutocracy. That's why Monsanto can sue farmers whose organic crops have been tainted by Monsanto seeds and pollen. That's why Dick Cheney's company got all those sweet, sweet no-bid contracts for Iraq and Afghanistan. That's why a college student can owe $173,000 for illegally downloading 17 songs from the internet but Glee can literally steal Jonathan Coulton's song. That's why the banks and Wall Street got bailed out and all those foreclosed homeowners got kicked out of their homes. That's why unemployment is still at nearly 8% but the stock market is at near record highs.

So yes, the upper class needs to be torn down a few notches, and with that tearing down we can shore up the rest of us.
 
2013-02-18 04:38:32 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: The Stealth Hippopotamus: 12349876: That's not the point. The point is the hope is a lot less than it used to be. One person can do it, one person has always been able to do it, but one person's experience has nothing to do with what's going on at the societal level.

That is exactly the point, that is the tip of the point. If we don't believe it it can never be. Have you ever heard of a self fulfilling proficiency?! Yeah I know we have someone on the biggest and loudest soap box in the country telling you you cant do it. I know that. But if there ever was an example of someone beating long odds it's him! (And yes I messed up, it was Harvard Law Review.). You can do it. Your kids can do it. Everyone can do it. You may or may not become the super wealthy but you can improve your station and push your family up the ladder. Maybe you are shooting for more of a change than is realistic? Going from emigrate to midclass is a huge jump but it can be done by one family push one kid into a good school. Now mid class to millionaire is a hard jump. But the sure way not to do it is to be negative and never try.

So we should ignore reality, pretend there are no problems and tell ourselves happy stories rather than trying to improve things?


Because "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche!" worked out so well for this lady:

altrapoint.com

All you conservative types asking why we should take more from the rich, why we should take what they earned, the answer is very simple:

Concentration of wealth into the hands of a tiny percentage of the population is how you create an aristocracy. The defining characteristics aren't the fancy titles. It's the social power and privilege passed down through inheritance. It's great that you get people like Obama and Buffet making it big.

But when the wealthy set up social barriers to entry into their class that ensure that most of their wealth will end up in the hands of themselves, their peers and their children, whether directly through inheritance of privately owned wealth or indirectly through the inherited control of legal entities like foundations and businesses and through privileged access to education and opportunity, then you have a huge farking problem for any nation that dares to imagine itself as some form of representative democracy or republic.

And no matter how many anecdotes you trot out about specific individuals making it big, it remains that the plural of anecdote is not data, and the general social trends are towards increasing inequality of opportunity and social stratification based on wealth. You are building yourselves an aristocracy of wealth and privilege and your poor conservative base is cheering it on.
 
2013-02-18 04:39:34 PM  
Giltric:

How will taking from them build you up?
Why bring someone else down to make you feel more equal?


They took from me first.  From my tax dollars going to support Walmart's employees (health care, food etc.), to Wall Street taking money to fix their bad bets, and to the low taxes paid on Capitol gains while I still pay a 1/4 of my income to pay for all of this Corporate maleficence.
Oh, lets talk about  the blood and gold my country has spent for the wars used to get earth from countries that profit "Shareholders"  and not me.
I pay and pay and pay. From not having enough money to fix our decaying streets to less of everything from police, to healthcare, to fire departments, to school my city is being bled to death.
Everything that touches my life is less and less and less and I'm told that even less is in my future. While at the same time I see report after report of money being held on the "sidelines" because of some reason or another.

Does taking from them benefit me? Only in so much as them taking from me has benefited them.
Bringing them down to mere citizens of this country, I'm cool with that, having banker kings hasn't worked so well for most of us as far as I can see.
 
2013-02-18 04:41:59 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Khellendros: According to the criteria set by the author, no president for the last century has remembered or followed their oath.  Yes, including the Republican ones.  Yes, including your beloved Regan.  Where's your anger for them?

Anger for them will do nothing except distract people who can fix the problems.

There is only one person in the White House now who can do something about it.

We learned this from the "Buck Stops There President" whose policies to fix the economy boil down to "Blame Bush", "Oh those meany House GOP members".


There's nothing to do anything about.  The current president is not violating the Constitution, nor pressing beyond his given powers any more than other presidents in the last century.  Precedent has been set for decades, and is now an institutional requirement to be effective in the position, as it has been since the first World War.  Congress and the judiciary can exercise the same checks on him that they have on every other president.  Notice that none of them - including those that disagree with him - have done anything.  That's because there's no merit to the attempt.

In short - deal.  The 4,500 word document that discusses our government's framework is not sufficient to govern in the modern world.  Big farking surprise.  We use it as a foundation, and build from it.  Much like every moral/ethical/political/religious guide ever written, it's only complete in its time, and must be grown and adapted as time goes on.
 
2013-02-18 04:45:20 PM  
socialist utopias have no need of opportunity.

all is provided.

obama ahkbar!
 
2013-02-18 04:46:08 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Do you know what Rush was responding to when he said that?


Of course. Its all over the web, Rush always prefaces his comments of this nature the same way, like most marginally intelligent racists. People like Rush couch their comments as an out-of-context reductio ad absurdum of what his opponent is saying (easy if you're Rep. Lee). And if you take his comments at face value then you're the real racist for even thinking about this. Its called race-baiting. And its a very common tactic--employed mostly by reactionary commentators. That's why Obama can make a statement about America living up to its ideals when it promotes equality of opportunity (like in TFA) while Limbaugh calls Obama "uppity" and comparing him to Hitler and all that. Yes, we're all aware of how this happens, thanks.
 
2013-02-18 04:47:13 PM  

Heresiarch: At what point does it become a problem? If you take the poorest of the poor, and they have less than a 10% shot of being able to get to middle-class, is that a problem? Where would you define the thresholds of probability for inter-generational income mobility such that below those numbers, there might be an issue? Further, how would you go about solving that issue?


Less than a 10 chance of moving up the next rug of the latter? I'm not sure how much of a chance I had when I started this life. So I wouldn't know. I would know if that was more or less than a chance then I had.
As far what I would do to solve it I'm not sure it needs solving! Like
Nonrepeating Rotating Binary said "All those Chinese, Latinos, Black people who would have had so much more opportunity in America 100 years ago. Those poor, poor bastards."

We've made great strides in a short amount of time. We've only been a country for less than 300 years. How fast do you think we can go?! From being thought of as property to being on the Supreme Court in 3-4 generations?! I'm not saying the work is done. But maybe the ground work is already laid.

Lionel Mandrake: I'm glad you agree.

Apology accepted.


LOL WUT?!

Yes I admit that not every single person in America has an equal chance of being the president. That was a strawman i built myself. Sometimes I build my own strawman by accident silly I know but I do that sometimes. But "that crap" as you so eloquently put it is true. Everyone has a chance to improve on their station. Everyone.
 
2013-02-18 04:48:28 PM  

Saiga410: MontanaDave: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.

Obama attended: Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School. He taught at the University of Chicago Law School. Yale was not part of his educational background.

Maybe he meant to list Governor instead of state and federal congress.


Bubba sees what you did there.
 
2013-02-18 04:49:17 PM  

Somacandra: ManRay: If only there were massive government programs aimed at helping poor people and giving them an opportunity to succeed and build a better life. If something like that was put in place a generation ago we would have less disadvantaged now.

In some ways, things indeed were getting better after WWII and the postwar boom into the Great Society era until the 1980's and the economic squander/blowback from the Vietnam War. Not for most black families without any inherited capital to build on, but for some.

[i.imgur.com image 300x548]

Then the income differential really hit. You can't expect some compensatory programs to replace the job of actually governing well.


Looking at income growth over the years, middleclass and below income flatlined in the mid 70's.  Charts cherrypicked to show the split at 79 just glosses over the data and point to what is probably not the problem.
 
2013-02-18 04:49:27 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Yes, it demonstrates that it is possible to succeed. You are pathetic if you believe that that is the only success story. Herman Cain laughs at you.


Cain went to Moorhouse and Purdue, but refuses to release his college records.

What is he hiding?
 
2013-02-18 04:50:53 PM  

GoldSpider: Higher education isn't the problem.  The problem is that our culture seems to value education of any kind less and less with each generation.  That problem isn't so easy to fix with public funding, so we ignore it.


Academic inflation. Unfortunately, by making it easier for people to get into college, you make the degree worth less and less.
 
2013-02-18 04:52:50 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yes I admit that not every single person in America has an equal chance of being the president. That was a strawman i built myself. Sometimes I build my own strawman by accident silly I know but I do that sometimes. But "that crap" as you so eloquently put it is true. Everyone has a chance to improve on their station. Everyone.


I never said otherwise.

I said people do not have "the same chance to succeed." 

And you agreed.
 
2013-02-18 04:53:55 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: 12349876: That's not the point. The point is the hope is a lot less than it used to be. One person can do it, one person has always been able to do it, but one person's experience has nothing to do with what's going on at the societal level.

That is exactly the point, that is the tip of the point. If we don't believe it it can never be. Have you ever heard of a self fulfilling proficiency?! Yeah I know we have someone on the biggest and loudest soap box in the country telling you you cant do it. I know that. But if there ever was an example of someone beating long odds it's him! (And yes I messed up, it was Harvard Law Review.). You can do it. Your kids can do it. Everyone can do it. You may or may not become the super wealthy but you can improve your station and push your family up the ladder. Maybe you are shooting for more of a change than is realistic? Going from emigrate to midclass is a huge jump but it can be done by one family push one kid into a good school. Now mid class to millionaire is a hard jump. But the sure way not to do it is to be negative and never try.


What does that have to do with the article?  I thought it was about how America is now one of the worst counties in the western world to be upwardly mobile in, that doesn't mean nobody can do it.

Why does America have less than half the upward mobility of Canada and 1/3 the upward mobility of Denmark? Instead of saying 'you can do it' why don't you look at why you aren't doing it and try to fix it, isn't that better than walking around with blinders on?
 
2013-02-18 04:54:01 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: We've made great strides in a short amount of time. We've only been a country for less than 300 years. How fast do you think we can go?! From being thought of as property to being on the Supreme Court in 3-4 generations?! I'm not saying the work is done. But maybe the ground work is already laid.


That work was done NOT because American is inherently exceptional. Not because we told ourselves lovely stories about an "American Dream".

Not that progress was made because people have agitated, protested, scraped and clawed for every tiny bit of progress. It isn't due to people like you who want us only to celebrate how wonderful everything is. No, it is due to those how have refused to accept the status quo.
 
2013-02-18 04:54:52 PM  

KiltedBastich: But when the wealthy set up social barriers to entry into their class that ensure that most of their wealth will end up in the hands of themselves, their peers and their children, whether directly through inheritance of privately owned wealth or indirectly through the inherited control of legal entities like foundations and businesses and through privileged access to education and opportunity, then you have a huge farking problem for any nation that dares to imagine itself as some form of representative democracy or republic.


The wealthy can only do that if they ingratiate themselves with government.  your beef, Occupy's beef, the Progressive agenda....

All of it should be directed towards Washington, DC.

Thanks to the tax code they write, GE and facebook pays no taxes and GETS billions back whilst a schlub earning $50,000 in a factory probably pays $14,000 and is just happy to get a couple hundred bucks back in middle February.  Thanks to the laws they write, companies escape prosecution when they commit fraud.  Thanks to government, it is easier to get rich investing in congressmen and lobbying than in R&D for a product.  Who needs the market to buy your products when you can convince government to do it? What is easier, making a product that 309,000,000 people might want or making a product that a few people in Washington can order 309,000,000 people to pay for?

Heresiarch: Are you saying that income inequality is only an issue when the lower classes reach a standard of living that was defined over half a century ago?


I'm saying that the only reason income inequality exists is because the US continues to experience in-migration of largely low-wage, low-skill individuals who stick largely to labor, and agriculture based jobs.  A similar trend existed for Irish, Italian, German and Jewish immigrants yet nobody is talking about an Italian wage gap or the Irish vs. Chinese income gap.

There is income mobility in this country, it is just an affront to the people at the NY Times and HuffPo that a first-generation Guatemalan immigrant isn't going to earn as much as some kid who grew up in Sun Valley, ID, went to Stanford and works for Sun Microsystems.   real wealth and prosperity is accumulated through generations of earning, education, home ownership and transfer of property from one generation to another - the very thing progressives like to attack.

I'd say that having a 60% chance of moving out of poverty and into the middle class while living in a country where nobody starves to death, nobody is denied the best medical treatment in the world, just about everyone has a cellphone with access to the internet is pretty damn good.

That must be why so many Americans are packing up and moving to Juarez.
 
2013-02-18 04:55:04 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


You forgot the part where he was born in Kenya.

/runs away!
 
2013-02-18 04:56:52 PM  

o5iiawah: I'd say that having a 60% chance of moving out of poverty and into the middle class while living in a country where nobody starves to death, nobody is denied the best medical treatment in the world, just about everyone has a cellphone with access to the internet is pretty damn good.


What country is that?
 
2013-02-18 04:58:37 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: o5iiawah: I'd say that having a 60% chance of moving out of poverty and into the middle class while living in a country where nobody starves to death, nobody is denied the best medical treatment in the world, just about everyone has a cellphone with access to the internet is pretty damn good.

What country is that?


Where the country that is ranked 38th in the world for medical care is  'the best medical treatment in the world'.
 
2013-02-18 04:59:09 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Aar1012: What are the odds of it happening again? What are the odds that a poor black kid or any poor kid that was born within the past decade would be able to do the same?

The dream isn't dead, but it is on life support


It a really really long shot. It was a really really long shot to begin with. But it was and is possible. The dream doesn't come with a guarantee


I calculate that the current odds to be 1 in 315,091,138 at the very best.
 
2013-02-18 04:59:21 PM  

Saiga410: zedster: slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.

Maybe, but you are skipping some data points here, let's skip the 1800s and move to post-WWII. The middle class grew during the 1950s and continued into the 70s, then it started to crash down a bit. Why?

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 615x447]
Source

Water florination or the removal of lead from gasoline.


GET OUT OF MY HEAD
 
2013-02-18 05:00:02 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: I never said otherwise.

I said people do not have "the same chance to succeed."

And you agreed.



If your crap comment was an answer to my post I would think it would be after the quote of my post. I thought was a reply to the headline about the American Dream...

Looking at the replies it was a common misunderstanding. If you believe that anyone can be a success in American than you're right, we are in agreement.
 
2013-02-18 05:01:02 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: So yes, the upper class needs to be torn down a few notches, and with that tearing down we can shore up the rest of us.


Sooo much Palin word salad. Poe?
 
2013-02-18 05:03:14 PM  
Let me just come out as one very against "equality of opportunity". I don't want the government artificially putting the children of those who did not properly prepare them for life on the same playing field as my children. I am working hard to give my children a leg up, a head start in life. By definition, to have a head start, there are going to be people who start behind you, and there are people who are working even harder than I am, or whose parents or grandparents worked harder than mine, whose children will be ahead of mine. I do not deny them that.


The only proper role of the government is to ensure that we are all equal before the law. Not equality of outcomes or even equality of opportunity.There is so much work here to be done. The rich often go to different judges, different prisons, and face shorter sentences. This is a serious problem in our society, and needs to be rectified. I don't claim to have all the answers, but we can start by paying defense attorneys competitively with what the private sector pays, and by auditing judges so that they are not a law unto themselves.


Before someone says I must have had it good as a child, let me assure you that I grew up incredibly poor, and have worked my whole life to be where I am.
 
2013-02-18 05:04:15 PM  
Let me just come out as one very against "equality of opportunity". I don't want the government artificially putting the children of those who did not properly prepare them for life on the same playing field as my children. I am working hard to give my children a leg up, a head start in life. By definition, to have a head start, there are going to be people who start behind you, and there are people who are working even harder than I am, or whose parents or grandparents worked harder than mine, whose children will be ahead of mine. I do not deny them that.

The only proper role of the government is to ensure that we are all equal before the law. Not equality of outcomes or even equality of opportunity.There is so much work here to be done. The rich often go to different judges, different prisons, and face shorter sentences. This is a serious problem in our society, and needs to be rectified. I don't claim to have all the answers, but we can start by paying defense attorneys competitively with what the private sector pays, and by auditing judges so that they are not a law unto themselves.

Before someone says I must have had it good as a child, let me assure you that I grew up incredibly poor, and have worked my whole life to be where I am.
 
2013-02-18 05:04:29 PM  

slayer199: Of course, nobody wants to point the finger where it belongs...the massive growth of government from taxation, regulation, and redistribution of wealth...beginning with FDR.


More like globalization. The 1%ers saw an opportunity to undercut the American workforce by having their assembly done in third world countries. Same revenue with lower costs = higher profits. That's fine and all, but part of the increase profits need to be seized and given back to the people who lost their jobs. You can't cheat around the fact that everyone in this country needs to eat, and damn near everyone is willing to work to do it.
 
2013-02-18 05:04:56 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


That poor black kid was raised by his two,white grand parents. He want to a predominantly white school in Hawaii, excelled in basketball and graduated with academic honors. Since the age of ten Obama lived in a stable home and was loved. He was exceptionally talented and intelligent. He didn't have a learning disability, a physical disability, a mental illness or live in extreme poverty in an unstable home. Obama had many God given abilities and a lot of breaks that most people don't get. Obama went to Occidental, Columbia and Harvard. Pat of his education was paid for by scholarships. Not everyone is smart enough or fortunate enough to get that kind of education.  Hell, many people of every color dream of the kind of support, talent and opportunity that Barack Obama has had and it's only a dream.


Spare me the "poor black kid" bull.
 
2013-02-18 05:05:56 PM  
Do you know what the number one predictor of income is in the United States? Education level, right? IQ? Or maybe it's number of hours worked per week? No. It's your father's income. Too many people are faced with the bitter reality that no matter how hard they work or how smart they are, they will never make as much money as a moron with rich, well-connected parents.
 
2013-02-18 05:06:00 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: If your crap comment was an answer to my post I would think it would be after the quote of my post. I thought was a reply to the headline about the American Dream...


It was a reaction to the article's headline: Equal Opportunity, Our National Myth, and the opening quote from Obama

"That crap" meaning (the myth of) Equal Opportunity

"American Dream" is not in TFA's headline or subby's headline.
 
2013-02-18 05:06:21 PM  

Giltric: How will taking from them build you up?
Why bring someone else down to make you feel more equal?



The top bracket makes their money not from hard work but from an unbalanced playing field based on laws that work to lock money in. One of the bigger problems we have is deflation, there is not enough money moving in the economy and it's locked in the upper echelons. They have no incentive to move it because of the laws. If you are making 50% of the income in the nation, shouldn't you be taxed accordingly? These people are wealthy because the system protects them and benefits them. Isn't it only fair they pay their fair share based on the utility of the system to them?
 
2013-02-18 05:06:40 PM  
stevenrushing: Before someone says I must have had it good as a child, let me assure you that I grew up incredibly poor, and have worked my whole life to be where I am. fark you, I got mine.

FTFY
 
2013-02-18 05:07:13 PM  

stevenrushing: Let me just come out as one very against "equality of opportunity". I don't want the government artificially putting the children of those who did not properly prepare them for life on the same playing field as my children. I am working hard to give my children a leg up, a head start in life. By definition, to have a head start, there are going to be people who start behind you, and there are people who are working even harder than I am, or whose parents or grandparents worked harder than mine, whose children will be ahead of mine. I do not deny them that.


The only proper role of the government is to ensure that we are all equal before the law. Not equality of outcomes or even equality of opportunity.There is so much work here to be done. The rich often go to different judges, different prisons, and face shorter sentences. This is a serious problem in our society, and needs to be rectified. I don't claim to have all the answers, but we can start by paying defense attorneys competitively with what the private sector pays, and by auditing judges so that they are not a law unto themselves.


Before someone says I must have had it good as a child, let me assure you that I grew up incredibly poor, and have worked my whole life to be where I am.


Translation: I got mine, Fark you!
 
2013-02-18 05:07:51 PM  
120 comments...click thread:

45.

FARK is getting ridiculous these days. Farking right-wing blowhard trolls.
 
2013-02-18 05:10:21 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


Yeah, but he was an immigrant.
 
2013-02-18 05:10:44 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Not that progress was made because people have agitated, protested, scraped and clawed for every tiny bit of progress. It isn't due to people like you who want us only to celebrate how wonderful everything is. No, it is due to those how have refused to accept the status quo.


p>


And people were able to scrape and claw for progress because of our system. Our system was set up so that people could petition the government and demand address of grievous. I believe that we have everything in place to allow the evidential evolution to a state of equality for all people. You can not force the human heart.
 
2013-02-18 05:12:00 PM  

Russky: Philip Francis Queeg: o5iiawah: I'd say that having a 60% chance of moving out of poverty and into the middle class while living in a country where nobody starves to death, nobody is denied the best medical treatment in the world, just about everyone has a cellphone with access to the internet is pretty damn good.

What country is that?

Where the country that is ranked 38th in the world for medical care is  'the best medical treatment in the world'.


Ah yes, the WHO study.

WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).

None of those metrics measure the actual quality of care that you get when you walk in the door, or the amount of money spent on researching new procedures, or the availability of the average joe to access the best procedures in the world.
 
2013-02-18 05:13:09 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Philip Francis Queeg: Not that progress was made because people have agitated, protested, scraped and clawed for every tiny bit of progress. It isn't due to people like you who want us only to celebrate how wonderful everything is. No, it is due to those how have refused to accept the status quo.

p>


And people were able to scrape and claw for progress because of our system. Our system was set up so that people could petition the government and demand address of grievous. I believe that we have everything in place to allow the evidential evolution to a state of equality for all people. You can not force the human heart.


So the time has come to stop agitating, clawing a scraping and just pat ourselves on the back and tell ourselves what a perfect country we are? Fark that. We have long, long way to go.
 
2013-02-18 05:13:52 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Translation: I got mine, Fark you!


Translation: " I started with nothing, and have some now why cant you do the same and get yours"
 
2013-02-18 05:14:08 PM  

Mija: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.

That poor black kid was raised by his two,white grand parents. He want to a predominantly white school in Hawaii, excelled in basketball and graduated with academic honors. Since the age of ten Obama lived in a stable home and was loved. He was exceptionally talented and intelligent. He didn't have a learning disability, a physical disability, a mental illness or live in extreme poverty in an unstable home. Obama had many God given abilities and a lot of breaks that most people don't get. Obama went to Occidental, Columbia and Harvard. Pat of his education was paid for by scholarships. Not everyone is smart enough or fortunate enough to get that kind of education.  Hell, many people of every color dream of the kind of support, talent and opportunity that Barack Obama has had and it's only a dream.


Spare me the "poor black kid" bull.


Would you accept the assention of Nathan R Johnson as an example of a poor black kid making good?
 
2013-02-18 05:14:21 PM  
"We are true to our creed when a little girl born into the bleakest poverty knows that she has the same chance to succeed as anybody else, because she is an American; she is free, and she is equal, not just in the eyes of God but also in our own."

This is the propaganda neoliberals spew to make us think capitalism works. Read that quote and ask yourself which side Obama is on.
 
2013-02-18 05:14:35 PM  

Giltric: namatad: zedster: slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.

Maybe, but you are skipping some data points here, let's skip the 1800s and move to post-WWII. The middle class grew during the 1950s and continued into the 70s, then it started to crash down a bit. Why?

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 615x447]
Source

this is all about the reagan royalty revolution. Until we undo that, we will continue to wallow.
bring back the death taxes. bring back cap gain taxes. bring back (implement) wealth taxes. reinstate glass-steagall.

these efforts would have little to zero impact on 99%

oh wait, the 1% decide what will happen.
nevermind

How will taking from them build you up?
Why bring someone else down to make you feel more equal?


Taking from the top 1% who are hoarding resources and giving it to the bottom 99% who are starving usually builds the 99% up by way of much-needed calories.
 
2013-02-18 05:15:27 PM  

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.

Yeah, but he was an immigrant.


...and he didn't go to Yale
 
2013-02-18 05:16:09 PM  

o5iiawah: Philip Francis Queeg: Translation: I got mine, Fark you!

Translation: " I started with nothing, and have some now why cant you do the same and get yours"


I'm sure he did it all on his own, with no assistance from any government entity, right?
 
2013-02-18 05:16:54 PM  
If I ended up at a job that would pay me about 40k a year, I'd be happy.

Escatic, even.
 
2013-02-18 05:18:27 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: People still believe that crap?

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.

Look!!  A single anecdote that proves anyone from anywhere has an equal chance of achieving anything as everyone else!!


Ostensibly Stealth could not properly read the article. This sort of statistical aberration was included by the author as inconsequential. Stealth's poor comprehension skill-set is likely the result of the institutionalized bias of our educational system. Unwittingly (of course) Stealth makes a better argument that the dream is indeed dead.
 
2013-02-18 05:18:44 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: I'm sure he did it all on his own, with no assistance from any government entity, right?


And I'll just bet you he out-competed third-world workers on the price for his valuable labor.
 
2013-02-18 05:18:53 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: o5iiawah: Philip Francis Queeg: Translation: I got mine, Fark you!

Translation: " I started with nothing, and have some now why cant you do the same and get yours"

I'm sure he did it all on his own, with no assistance from any government entity, right?


Oh I am sure he had some assistance from the govt but it is the same assistance that the govt gives to everyone.
 
2013-02-18 05:20:17 PM  

Saiga410: Philip Francis Queeg: o5iiawah: Philip Francis Queeg: Translation: I got mine, Fark you!

Translation: " I started with nothing, and have some now why cant you do the same and get yours"

I'm sure he did it all on his own, with no assistance from any government entity, right?

Oh I am sure he had some assistance from the govt but it is the same assistance that the govt gives to everyone.


Yep, the very same assistance he was biatching about.
 
2013-02-18 05:22:46 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Saiga410: Philip Francis Queeg: o5iiawah: Philip Francis Queeg: Translation: I got mine, Fark you!

Translation: " I started with nothing, and have some now why cant you do the same and get yours"

I'm sure he did it all on his own, with no assistance from any government entity, right?

Oh I am sure he had some assistance from the govt but it is the same assistance that the govt gives to everyone.

Yep, the very same assistance he was biatching about.


My reading, he was complaining about adjusting the status quo away from his favor now that he has climbed up a rung.
 
Displayed 50 of 365 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report