If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The New York Times)   The myth of America as the land of opportunity is busted by some Nobel winner   (opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 365
    More: Sad, Nobel Laureates, Ayn Rand, equality of opportunity, environmental hazards, second inaugural address, Alan Krueger, achievement gap, Stiglitz  
•       •       •

8202 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Feb 2013 at 3:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



365 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-02-18 01:59:25 PM  
The Pew Research Center has found that some 90 percent of Americans believe that the government should do everything it can to ensure equality of opportunity.

I read this, and I am not sure I can believe it. If it were true, then the GOP would be a far more progressive party than it is. Same with the Dems.
 
2013-02-18 02:10:14 PM  

Nadie_AZ: The Pew Research Center has found that some 90 percent of Americans believe that the government should do everything it can to ensure equality of opportunity.

I read this, and I am not sure I can believe it. If it were true, then the GOP would be a far more progressive party than it is. Same with the Dems.


50% of people have an IQ below 100. People vote against their own best interests. People vote for religion and hate. People vote for bigotry.
FFS W was elected twice. He was the least intelligent president ever.

But ensuring equality of opportunity does not mean the same thing to everyone. Dems think of that as providing aid to people at the bottom. GOPs think of that as cutting taxes so government is out of their way (which would otherwise prevent opportunity)

The fact that you dont "believe" a poll is proof that most people dont even understand how polls work.
 
2013-02-18 02:12:15 PM  
I realized it was a myth by my second year of college
 
2013-02-18 02:18:57 PM  
Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.
 
2013-02-18 02:20:58 PM  

namatad: The fact that you dont "believe" a poll is proof that most people dont even understand how polls work.


I can admit that.
 
2013-02-18 02:22:24 PM  

Nadie_AZ: namatad: The fact that you dont "believe" a poll is proof that most people dont even understand how polls work.

I can admit that.


To be fair, you could have been questioning the very premise of the question, or how they phrased it. Phrased a different way, you could get a more conservative perspective as an answer.
 
2013-02-18 02:23:36 PM  
Of course, nobody wants to point the finger where it belongs...the massive growth of government from taxation, regulation, and redistribution of wealth...beginning with FDR.
 
2013-02-18 02:25:14 PM  
 
2013-02-18 02:26:39 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


What are the odds of it happening again? What are the odds that a poor black kid or any poor kid that was born within the past decade would be able to do the same?

The dream isn't dead, but it is on life support
 
2013-02-18 02:30:32 PM  

Aar1012: What are the odds of it happening again? What are the odds that a poor black kid or any poor kid that was born within the past decade would be able to do the same?

The dream isn't dead, but it is on life support



It a really really long shot. It was a really really long shot to begin with. But it was and is possible. The dream doesn't come with a guarantee
 
2013-02-18 02:33:43 PM  

slayer199: Of course, nobody wants to point the finger where it belongs...the massive growth of government from taxation, regulation, and redistribution of wealth...beginning with FDR.


right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age
 
2013-02-18 02:40:19 PM  

zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age


And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.
 
2013-02-18 02:41:34 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Aar1012: What are the odds of it happening again? What are the odds that a poor black kid or any poor kid that was born within the past decade would be able to do the same?

The dream isn't dead, but it is on life support


It a really really long shot. It was a really really long shot to begin with. But it was and is possible. The dream doesn't come with a guarantee


A Family Affair: Intergenerational Social Mobility across OECD Countries - PDF

The US has the third lowest upward mobility index behind Italy and Great Britain

Ignore the dream of being break out rich or even two cars in the garage and a chicken in every pot. The real American dream has always been if you play it straight your children will have more opportunity then you had. With 20 somethings and younger today we are seeing the dream evaporate. The cost of education has shot up, the job market has crashed. We (Gen Y) were told go to college, get good grades, and you will be alright. Instead you have JDs waiting tables and people with solid degrees doing jobs they could have done out of high school. Don't give me the crap about oh if you went into STEM, thanks to outsourcing, H1As, loss of grants, etc... those fields aren't that much more secure these days.

We are looking at a lost decade and a lost generation unless we decide that we need to do something about it instead of attempting austerity. The life time earnings of Gen Y are going to be significantly less just because of how late we are getting into actual jobs.
 
2013-02-18 02:49:52 PM  

slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.


Maybe, but you are skipping some data points here, let's skip the 1800s and move to post-WWII. The middle class grew during the 1950s and continued into the 70s, then it started to crash down a bit. Why?

cdn.theatlantic.com
Source
 
2013-02-18 02:51:52 PM  

zedster: I keep harping it but I feel the 1912 Wisconsin Idea, which formed much of the philosophical backing of the New Deal, covers a lot of this.

Why not take by taxation some of that wealth acquired by Force? Why allow idle sons and daughters to waste this wealth; why not tax them by graduated income, inheritance and increment taxes, so that they bear a burden proportionate to their strength, in order that the burden of maintaining the state shall not fall so heavily on the poor? Will this be permitted? Will not that same dreaded Force terrorize our legislators? They are but human, with business interests and families to support.

Why not make public the affairs of monopolies, so that they cannot buy the votes of electors or legislators? Why not limit the power of wealth in elections? It cannot buy the whole people, can it? If not, why not make our legislators directly responsible to us so that we may watch them? Why not simplify the whole machinery of nomination and election so that we are certain to elect the men we want--men of honesty and strength?


this would solve 98% of the problems in the US (and the world).
this would also impact 2% of the population and only to a minor degree.
(owning 10% (or 20% or even 50%) less houses and planes and cars and islands is a minor inconvenience for the 2%, not the end of the world as we know it. Poor little rich kids.
 
2013-02-18 02:54:24 PM  

zedster: slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.

Maybe, but you are skipping some data points here, let's skip the 1800s and move to post-WWII. The middle class grew during the 1950s and continued into the 70s, then it started to crash down a bit. Why?

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 615x447]
Source


this is all about the reagan royalty revolution. Until we undo that, we will continue to wallow.
bring back the death taxes. bring back cap gain taxes. bring back (implement) wealth taxes. reinstate glass-steagall.

these efforts would have little to zero impact on 99%

oh wait, the 1% decide what will happen.
nevermind
 
2013-02-18 03:30:45 PM  
People still believe that crap?

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


Look!!  A single anecdote that proves anyone from anywhere has an equal chance of achieving anything as everyone else!!
 
2013-02-18 03:34:18 PM  

slayer199: Of course, nobody wants to point the finger where it belongs...the massive growth of government from taxation, regulation, and redistribution of wealth...beginning with FDR.


Do you know how we all know you didn't RTFA?
 
2013-02-18 03:35:51 PM  

namatad: 50% of people have an IQ below 100.


How far do we expect half the population to go on the road to success?
 
2013-02-18 03:36:03 PM  

slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.


Citation Needed.
 
2013-02-18 03:37:32 PM  

zedster: slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.

Maybe, but you are skipping some data points here, let's skip the 1800s and move to post-WWII. The middle class grew during the 1950s and continued into the 70s, then it started to crash down a bit. Why?

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 615x447]
Source


Outsourcing labor to countries where you can pay someone the American equvlant of 2$ a day? Automation?
 
2013-02-18 03:38:45 PM  

namatad: zedster: slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.

Maybe, but you are skipping some data points here, let's skip the 1800s and move to post-WWII. The middle class grew during the 1950s and continued into the 70s, then it started to crash down a bit. Why?

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 615x447]
Source

this is all about the reagan royalty revolution. Until we undo that, we will continue to wallow.
bring back the death taxes. bring back cap gain taxes. bring back (implement) wealth taxes. reinstate glass-steagall.

these efforts would have little to zero impact on 99%

oh wait, the 1% decide what will happen.
nevermind


How will taking from them build you up?
Why bring someone else down to make you feel more equal?
 
2013-02-18 03:38:49 PM  

zedster: slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.

Maybe, but you are skipping some data points here, let's skip the 1800s and move to post-WWII. The middle class grew during the 1950s and continued into the 70s, then it started to crash down a bit. Why?

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 615x447]
Source


Water florination or the removal of lead from gasoline.
 
2013-02-18 03:39:48 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.

Citation Needed.


The opportunities were plentiful to all those 10 years working in coal mines. They could grow up to be a destitute 25 year old dying of black lung or a destitute 32 year old dying of black lung. The possibilities were limitless.
 
2013-02-18 03:39:58 PM  
According to research from the Brookings Institution, only 58 percent of Americans born into the bottom fifth of income earners move out of that category

I was actually surprised the number was that high... and I'm trying to figure out what being surprised by that says about me.
 
2013-02-18 03:42:22 PM  
I won't believe this is truly a land of equal opportunity until we elect a person of color President.
 
2013-02-18 03:42:34 PM  

slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.


I think you're thinking of the 1950's. The era of the Robber Barons was closer to the 1850's.
 
2013-02-18 03:42:51 PM  
Equality of opportunity and equality of results are two very different things.
 
2013-02-18 03:43:14 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


Christ... after the DNC and Michelle Obama's speech, the right-wing spent weeks telling us how farking priviledged Obama's background was.
 
2013-02-18 03:43:52 PM  
Higher education isn't the problem.  The problem is that our culture seems to value education of any kind less and less with each generation.  That problem isn't so easy to fix with public funding, so we ignore it.
 
2013-02-18 03:44:00 PM  

slayer199: Of course, nobody wants to point the finger where it belongs...the massive growth of government from taxation, regulation, and redistribution of wealth...beginning with FDR.


But you're not a republican, right?

/Fark Independent, apparently.
 
2013-02-18 03:45:26 PM  

GoldSpider: Higher education isn't the problem.  The problem is that our culture seems to value education of any kind less and less with each generation.  That problem isn't so easy to fix with public funding, so we ignore it.


Yeah pretty much this.

Although I do think that bumping up Pell grants a little wouldn't hurt.
 
2013-02-18 03:45:51 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I read this, and I am not sure I can believe it. If it were true, then the GOP would be a far more progressive party than it is. Same with the Dems.


You presume that politicians are responsive to voters rather than monied interests.
 
2013-02-18 03:47:04 PM  
The Pew Research Center has found that 90 percent of Americans believe that the government should do everything it can to ensure equality of opportunity.

And the problem is the government is listening.
 
2013-02-18 03:49:14 PM  

Giltric: How will taking from them build you up?
Why bring someone else down to make you feel more equal?


Remember those questions next time there is a thread about pensions for unionized public employees.
 
2013-02-18 03:49:28 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


His maternal grandparents were not exactly living under a bridge...
 
2013-02-18 03:49:37 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


It snowed today, global warming is bunk.

/different set of words, same dumb argument
 
2013-02-18 03:49:55 PM  
<i>It's not that social mobility is impossible, but that the upwardly mobile American is becoming a statistical oddity. According to research from the Brookings Institution, only <b>58 percent</b> of Americans born into the bottom fifth of income earners move out of that category, </i>

When only the majority can get out of abject poverty in one generation, the dream is truly dead.
 
2013-02-18 03:51:20 PM  

MugzyBrown: The Pew Research Center has found that 90 percent of Americans believe that the government should do everything it can to ensure equality of opportunity.

And the problem is the government is listening.


wut?
 
2013-02-18 03:52:57 PM  

Giltric: Outsourcing labor to countries where you can pay someone the American equvlant of 2$ a day? Automation?


And importing cheap labor.

Fact is it is harder to become middle class these days. Graduating from high school and getting a job in a factory isn't the middle class path it once was.
 
2013-02-18 03:53:32 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.


Obama attended: Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School. He taught at the University of Chicago Law School. Yale was not part of his educational background.
 
2013-02-18 03:53:33 PM  

Giltric: namatad: zedster: slayer199: zedster: right, let's forget the robber barons and gilded age

And forget that people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.

Maybe, but you are skipping some data points here, let's skip the 1800s and move to post-WWII. The middle class grew during the 1950s and continued into the 70s, then it started to crash down a bit. Why?

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 615x447]
Source

this is all about the reagan royalty revolution. Until we undo that, we will continue to wallow.
bring back the death taxes. bring back cap gain taxes. bring back (implement) wealth taxes. reinstate glass-steagall.

these efforts would have little to zero impact on 99%

oh wait, the 1% decide what will happen.
nevermind

How will taking from them build you up?
Why bring someone else down to make you feel more equal?


Why not pay taxes commensurate with your means?
 
2013-02-18 03:54:07 PM  
They never specified *equal* opportunity. We built this country on the back of slavery and indentured servants, up until WW1 and 2 made that system impractical.
 
2013-02-18 03:54:20 PM  

Aar1012: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.

What are the odds of it happening again? What are the odds that a poor black kid or any poor kid that was born within the past decade would be able to do the same?

The dream isn't dead, but it is on life support


Would Cory Booker not count because his parents were the ones who were trailblazers in their fields?
 
2013-02-18 03:54:58 PM  
Of course America is still the land of opportunity. There are dozens of chains of big box stores for people to choose from for employment after 30 years of conservative voodoo economics.
 
2013-02-18 03:55:04 PM  

slayer199: people had more upward mobility back then as opposed to now.


2.bp.blogspot.com

/"We used to live in t' shoebox in t' middle of t' motorway."
 
2013-02-18 03:55:20 PM  
How much time did they waster making this for the article?


graphics8.nytimes.com
 
2013-02-18 03:55:49 PM  

MontanaDave: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Poor black kid from a unstable home grows up to graduate Yale get elected to state congress than federal and then becomes a two term President.

Yeah the dream is dead.

Obama attended: Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School. He taught at the University of Chicago Law School. Yale was not part of his educational background.


Maybe he meant to list Governor instead of state and federal congress.
 
2013-02-18 03:55:59 PM  

Lost Thought 00: We built this country on the back of slavery and indentured servants, up until WW1 and 2 made that system impractical.


Your timeline is just a tad off.
 
2013-02-18 03:56:23 PM  
a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com
 
Displayed 50 of 365 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report