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(Slate)   We clearly have pissed off Klendathu   (slate.com) divider line 165
    More: Interesting, Klendathu, space rocks, psychologies, meteors, kinetic energy, asteroids  
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21793 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2013 at 3:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-19 07:33:51 AM

CygnusDarius: And they ain't no bugs... They're Zerg.


images1.wikia.nocookie.net

"Zerg? How cute."
 
2013-02-19 08:29:34 AM
What a logical fallacy hitting a planet might look like:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-02-19 09:19:27 AM
A Starship Troopers thread and no mention of Roughnecks... Best Starship Troopers series ever! The only thing I wish they did was finish the last 4 episodes of the Earth Campaign. Just 4 more episodes and we could of had an epic conclusion.
 
2013-02-19 10:59:49 AM

mikefinch: Mike Chewbacca: Then at the end, when Johnny and Carmen are fleeing the bug tunnel and the other dying dude stays behind to cover their retreat, he's killing bugs with one shot.

While i agree the book and movie are unrelated the scource material in the book alludes to learning that bugs have a nerve centre that can be shot out.

State_College_Arsonist: Seriously, traveling across the galaxy at sub-light speeds would take very, very long, meaning the asteroid would have been launched long before humans and bugs had ever met.

In the book it seems allot more like it actually was the bugs. They are presented as a much more formidable and organized in the book. They are even capable of forming alliances which is why at the start of the book the troopers are terrorizing an alien world.

The movie made it into some false flag facist thing. The bugs in the book i absolutely believe launched an asteroid at the earth. Both sides seemed entirely capable of faster than light speeds and space travel.


Iirc in the book the Bugs just "paste" B.A. (and San Francisco, and Pluto, where Carl dies)...no mention of how they did it, exactly.  Probably big nukes from spaceships, though...not rocks.

Of course, if you've got a stardrive, you can probably accelerate a rock to where it ACTS like a nuke...
 
2013-02-19 11:23:50 AM

PunGent: mikefinch: Mike Chewbacca: Then at the end, when Johnny and Carmen are fleeing the bug tunnel and the other dying dude stays behind to cover their retreat, he's killing bugs with one shot.

While i agree the book and movie are unrelated the scource material in the book alludes to learning that bugs have a nerve centre that can be shot out.

State_College_Arsonist: Seriously, traveling across the galaxy at sub-light speeds would take very, very long, meaning the asteroid would have been launched long before humans and bugs had ever met.

In the book it seems allot more like it actually was the bugs. They are presented as a much more formidable and organized in the book. They are even capable of forming alliances which is why at the start of the book the troopers are terrorizing an alien world.

The movie made it into some false flag facist thing. The bugs in the book i absolutely believe launched an asteroid at the earth. Both sides seemed entirely capable of faster than light speeds and space travel.

Iirc in the book the Bugs just "paste" B.A. (and San Francisco, and Pluto, where Carl dies)...no mention of how they did it, exactly.  Probably big nukes from spaceships, though...not rocks.

Of course, if you've got a stardrivegravity, you can probably accelerate a rock to where it ACTS like a nuke...


Big enough rocks don't have to be moving very quickly in order to do comparable up-front damage.

There's no lingering radiation, but OTOH there's a buttload of dust and ash in the air messing with temperature levels.  So the ongoing effects are equally crappy.

Personally, I like to think they just had one REALLY big specially-genebred bug who volunteered to take a deep breath and leap out of the orbiter.
 
2013-02-19 01:39:43 PM
Hated the movie, loved the book. Seriously, the only redeeming thing about the movie was NPH. Do yourself a favor and read the book.

/why must I always poke the bear
//book was still better
 
2013-02-19 02:51:16 PM

alienated: I wont go into Heinleins political views as they do not match mine, but damn, so of the guys books still hold up. Can you grok that ?
/the last book i quoted from is a waste of paper and energy to make it a book, imho.


Thank you for that. I love Starship Troopers and talked it up a few years back when i was trying to get my sister to read something better than twilight. Well my family decided i must like Heinlein so they gave me a few of his other books (stranger in a strange land included) for Christmas.

How disappointing. His lopsided naive ideas about human society in the future could give Ayn Rand a run for her money.

I was entirely underwhelmed by the rest of his stuff. Naive idealistic and just turd like. Ayn Rand actually does come to mind as his books aswell all seem to be soapboxes for his half baked philosophy.

His books remind me of lines in TNG like "back in the 20th century people still used 'money' -- how primitive!" It belittles the ways of the past without ever understanding the root cause of the behavior or creating a plausible alternate.
 
2013-02-19 04:08:58 PM

One of Those Deaf Mutes: Hated the movie, loved the book. Seriously, the only redeeming thing about the movie was NPH. ***snip***


When is NPH not the best part of anything in which he is involved?  Never, in case you didn't know.
 
2013-02-19 06:14:23 PM

mikefinch: was entirely underwhelmed by the rest of his stuff. Naive idealistic and just turd like. Ayn Rand actually does come to mind as his books aswell all seem to be soapboxes for his half baked philosophy.


Perhaps you would care to quote something from those books that is more retarded than the bipartisan NDAA which allows politicians to throw Americans into military prisons until the end of the "war on terror" without any sort of charges or a trial?

Or the bipartisan "war on drugs"?

Or the bipartisan "war on terror"?
 
2013-02-20 01:10:39 AM

BullBearMS: Perhaps you would care to quote something from those books that is more retarded than the bipartisan NDAA which allows politicians to throw Americans into military prisons until the end of the "war on terror" without any sort of charges or a trial?
Or the bipartisan "war on drugs"?
Or the bipartisan "war on terror"?


Its naive and its idealistic. He writes a future without any connection to reality. He is so out to lunch regarding some ideas that it boggles the mind. Sci fi is supposed to be atleast a bit believable.

Heinleins descriptions of the future society being so open and libertine sounded as out to lunch as the SDA church elders telling me one day the catholic church would one day outlaw going to church on Saturday and make it an actual crime not to be catholic.

Its garbage that wasn't thought through. Plain and simple. I BELIEVE something like the NDAA exists. That makes sense -- its allot harder for me to believe that somewhere in the future we all became socialist libertines.
 
2013-02-20 02:23:12 AM

mikefinch: Mike Chewbacca: Then at the end, when Johnny and Carmen are fleeing the bug tunnel and the other dying dude stays behind to cover their retreat, he's killing bugs with one shot.

While i agree the book and movie are unrelated the scource material in the book alludes to learning that bugs have a nerve centre that can be shot out.

State_College_Arsonist: Seriously, traveling across the galaxy at sub-light speeds would take very, very long, meaning the asteroid would have been launched long before humans and bugs had ever met.

In the book it seems allot more like it actually was the bugs. They are presented as a much more formidable and organized in the book. They are even capable of forming alliances which is why at the start of the book the troopers are terrorizing an alien world.

The movie made it into some false flag facist thing. The bugs in the book i absolutely believe launched an asteroid at the earth. Both sides seemed entirely capable of faster than light speeds and space travel.


I'm pretty sure that the book never even says it was an asteroid or rock. It just says "The Bugs plastered Buenos Ares". I always assumed then jumped a fleet in-system and managed to get a ship past the defenses and dropped a really big nuke.

And the movie had....bug farts. That went into space. and killed ships. all without driving the farting bug about 40m into the bedrock from recoil! Not to mention orbital ass-tracking abilities

/Movie sucked.
//Book rocked.
///OK, the movie had good boobage. I'll give it that.
 
2013-02-20 07:03:44 AM

mikefinch: BullBearMS: Perhaps you would care to quote something from those books that is more retarded than the bipartisan NDAA which allows politicians to throw Americans into military prisons until the end of the "war on terror" without any sort of charges or a trial?
Or the bipartisan "war on drugs"?
Or the bipartisan "war on terror"?

Its naive and its idealistic. He writes a future without any connection to reality. He is so out to lunch regarding some ideas that it boggles the mind. Sci fi is supposed to be atleast a bit believable.

Heinleins descriptions of the future society being so open and libertine sounded as out to lunch as the SDA church elders telling me one day the catholic church would one day outlaw going to church on Saturday and make it an actual crime not to be catholic.

Its garbage that wasn't thought through. Plain and simple. I BELIEVE something like the NDAA exists. That makes sense -- its allot harder for me to believe that somewhere in the future we all became socialist libertines.


Again, quote something from the book that backs up your assertions.

All you've proven so far is that you are butthurt that Heinlein's politics aren't your own.

Since our current two parties are doing things right now that are much more retarded than anything Heinlein wrote about, you'll have to be specific.

You have actually read the stuff you're complaining about, haven't you?
 
2013-02-20 05:37:55 PM

BullBearMS: All you've proven so far is that you are butthurt that Heinlein's politics aren't your own.

Since our current two parties are doing things right now that are much more retarded than anything Heinlein wrote about, you'll have to be specific.

You have actually read the stuff you're complaining about, haven't you?


But it is about the politics. Its all about the politics. Its all about his way of thinking.

Here's an example -- its a bit weak though. In SST to vote you must participate in a government work program. It is essentially conscription for a vote and its facist. I know some people are fine with that way of thinking but to me its just a different way of constricting the electorate towards those in your favor.

His books are shlocked with values systems that really aren't sustainable. He leans heavily towards eugenics... He seems to favour worlds where sex is much more accepted but you women are almost always written as subservient to the men. He writes of worlds without war where everyone carries a gun like the old west. His society is to haughty for war but not to fancy for shooting eachother in the street?

I like allot of the subject matter. I just find the worlds he builds to be a bit soapboxy.

I don't believe societies would EVER end up behaving in the manners he writes (not in any lasting fashion) and it (for me atleast) really detracts from the story when im rolling my eyes every second page.

Those are examples -- the conscription in SST and the eugenics present in MANY of his other stories. Or the requirement for women to marry multiple partners no the moon? I know its supposed to be about genes in short supply but im going to suggest 95% of people ARENT cool with polygamy. And i dont think thats a social thing i think thats evolution.
 
2013-02-21 06:15:41 PM

mikefinch: In SST to vote you must participate in a government work program. It is essentially conscription for a vote and its facist.


You seem to be under the impression that just because an author includes a concept in one fictional novel, they must be in favor of that concept.

Stephen King is not in favor of people being brutally murdered, but you'd have a much easier time trying to prove he does from his body of work, since people are brutally murdered in a whole lot of King's books.

How many of Heinlein's books included the concept that you must take part in public service before being allowed to vote? One.

If this was something Heinlein seriously wanted to advocate for, it would have cropped up in more than one of his works.

mikefinch: He leans heavily towards eugenics...


Examples? In Friday, the protagonist was a genetically engineered female spy, but the society she was part of greatly looked down on those who were genetically modified.

mikefinch: women are almost always written as subservient to the men


He was a product of an era where women had only recently been given the right to vote. Frankly, it's shocking that so many of his works featured strong, intelligent female protagonists, like the aforementioned Friday.

For his era, he was actually quite forward thinking.

mikefinch: Or the requirement for women to marry multiple partners no the moon? I know its supposed to be about genes in short supply


Yes, that is indeed simple genetics.

Heinlein enjoyed messing with America when it came to our culture's odd social hangups, and sexuality is certainly one area where we are backwards compared to other cultures. It's our big puritan hangover.

He also spent quite a lot of time making fun of various religions.

mikefinch: I don't believe societies would EVER end up behaving in the manners he writes


His peers in the Sci-Fi writing world certainly gave him every award imaginable, so they don't agree with your assessment.
You can be all captain hindsight if you like, but Heinlein's peers didn't see anything wrong with his imagination.
 
2013-02-21 10:26:59 PM

BullBearMS: His peers in the Sci-Fi writing world certainly gave him every award imaginable, so they don't agree with your assessment.
You can be all captain hindsight if you like, but Heinlein's peers didn't see anything wrong with his imagination


I reserve the right to think most sci-fi writers have a thumb up their ass.

BullBearMS: You seem to be under the impression that just because an author includes a concept in one fictional novel, they must be in favor of that concept.


Heinlein was QUITE in favor of the societies he wrote about. The guy was a nudist that liked to practice open relationships -- i would say thats a clear support of those concepts.

BullBearMS: Heinlein enjoyed messing with America when it came to our culture's odd social hangups, and sexuality is certainly one area where we are backwards compared to other cultures. It's our big puritan hangover.


See -- i dont think of it as a big puritan hangover. I dont think its that backwards compared to other cultures. Sexuality is more taboo in general maybe but monogamy and sexual possessiveness have been (through history and still today across the world) the norm. I see no reason for it to change.  I think humans naturally align to monogamous straight relationships. There are outliers but the simple fact of the matter is our brains are hardwired to compete sexually and no social revolution is going to change millions of years of monkey rage embedded into our brains.

BullBearMS: Examples? In Friday, the protagonist was a genetically engineered female spy, but the society she was part of greatly looked down on those who were genetically modified.


Beyond This Horizon

BullBearMS: How many of Heinlein's books included the concept that you must take part in public service before being allowed to vote? One.


as i said -- it was a weak example -- but his books often feature a large segment of the populations that dont get a say in politics. Im not entirely sure it was something he supported, but i would say political repression is a huge theme in his books. And i dont mind that. He gets political oppression quite well (it was the cold war afterall...) But i think he gets other aspects of human society terribly. He bought into allot of libertine ideas that exploded in the 60's. He was writing for hippies

And hippies are the most naive and out of touch people you can meet. They couldn't play devils advocate if their lives depended on it.

Im sorry -- i love SST and he came up with mountains of cool sci fi ideas, but when i read the books my eyes roll.
 
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