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(Abc.net.au)   The enemy of Israel that Prisoner X leaked secrets to? Australia   (abc.net.au) divider line 45
    More: Interesting, Mossad, Ben Zygier, Australians, ASIO, dual citizenship  
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4304 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2013 at 9:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-18 09:30:11 AM  
Maybe they were passing secrets to Hitler's descendants?
 
2013-02-18 09:33:34 AM  
So I guess America should just kill Pollard.
 
2013-02-18 09:33:54 AM  
Well, Vienna couldn't be a bettet place for a spy to spend some time.
 
2013-02-18 09:36:11 AM  
I don't believe in spies.
 
2013-02-18 09:37:25 AM  
They have many famous beer halls.
 
2013-02-18 09:38:52 AM  
I don't know how many times I had to re-read that before I realized it didn't say Professor X.
 
2013-02-18 09:39:50 AM  
What is up with these featured links? Ban hammer please. Fark INC.
 
2013-02-18 09:54:14 AM  
Throw another schnitzel on the barbie.
 
2013-02-18 09:54:31 AM  
www.tvequals.com

Am I not supposed to do that?
 
2013-02-18 09:57:06 AM  
I trust Australia a lot more than I trust Israel.
 
2013-02-18 09:57:27 AM  
"A stranger is just a friend I haven't met yet."
-- Will Rogers


"A friend is just an enemy I haven't made yet"
-- Israel
 
2013-02-18 09:57:45 AM  
I'm not sure anyone could trust the Australians, anyway.  That's where they had the concentration camps and all.
 
2013-02-18 09:58:40 AM  
Crikey
 
2013-02-18 10:04:51 AM  
From the article: "The death of Mr Zygier has been the subject of a top-secret investigation in Israel that ended only two months ago; a judge finding he had killed himself in his highly secured, reportedly suicide-proof cell."

A tragic thing that; he doubtless managed to brutally beat himself against the walls of the cell, finally finishing himself off with two shots to the back of the head with a smuggled pistol. A very determined individual, even in death.
 
2013-02-18 10:08:18 AM  
I thought I read earlier that he was an Aussie who was an Israeli spy.

These movies are too complicated.
 
2013-02-18 10:17:26 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-18 10:17:30 AM  
I thought I read earlier that he was an Aussie who was an Israeli spy.

He was, he held dual citizenship
 
2013-02-18 10:18:51 AM  

JungleBoogie: A tragic thing that; he doubtless managed to brutally beat himself against the walls of the cell, finally finishing himself off with two shots to the back of the head with a smuggled pistol.


images2.wikia.nocookie.net
Has seen it before.

/hot
 
2013-02-18 10:33:09 AM  

swahnhennessy: So I guess America should just kill Pollard.


no, he should commit suicide in his suicide proof cell.
 
2013-02-18 10:34:41 AM  

95629: I trust Australia a lot more than I trust Israel.


I wonder what they had planned for Italy?
 
2013-02-18 10:38:08 AM  
Australia has enemies?
 
2013-02-18 10:40:04 AM  

Hobodeluxe: I wonder what they had planned for Italy?


Mario and Luigi have been supplying the PLO with banned turtle shells and power ups, they want to "discuss" it with them, they also heard that Princess Peach is a Hamas sympathizer
 
2013-02-18 10:42:35 AM  
What you need to realize is that every nation spies on every other nation. Even allies. Especially allies.
 
2013-02-18 10:53:55 AM  

Hobodeluxe: swahnhennessy: So I guess America should just kill Pollard.

no, he should commit suicide in his suicide proof cell.


Since I implicitly trust the powerful and overly-secretive intelligence apparatus of the United States, I should DOUBLY trust the even more out-of-control Mossad.  After all, any service that (stupidly) attempts something as indiscriminate as a poison gas assassination in a nominally friendly country can clearly be trusted.
 
2013-02-18 11:48:07 AM  

Hobodeluxe: swahnhennessy: So I guess America should just kill Pollard.

no, he should commit suicide in his suicide proof cell.


Pollard can get out in 2015, that should be a fun circus.  One of the little nice things about Obama winning is he is likely tell Israel to go fark themselves when they start the parole Pollard lobby.

/dude gave up his American citizenship after he was caught, what an anti-American piece of shiat
 
2013-02-18 11:58:20 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Hobodeluxe: swahnhennessy: So I guess America should just kill Pollard.

no, he should commit suicide in his suicide proof cell.

Pollard can get out in 2015, that should be a fun circus.  One of the little nice things about Obama winning is he is likely tell Israel to go fark themselves when they start the parole Pollard lobby.

/dude gave up his American citizenship after he was caught, what an anti-American piece of shiat


I couldn't agree more.  I will never vote for anybody who supports letting that POS out of prison.
 
2013-02-18 12:37:38 PM  

XveryYpettyZ: ha-ha-guy: Hobodeluxe: swahnhennessy:

So I guess America should just kill Pollard.

no, he should commit suicide in his suicide proof cell.

Pollard can get out in 2015, that should be a fun circus.  One of the little nice things about Obama winning is he is likely tell Israel to go fark themselves when they start the parole Pollard lobby.

/dude gave up his American citizenship after he was caught, what an anti-American piece of shiat

I couldn't agree more.  I will never vote for anybody who supports letting that POS out of prison.


But holocaust! Never again! The only thing any Gentile can think about is shoving Jews into ovens! Even half the Jews out there are antisemites! Don't you know anything?!?
 
2013-02-18 01:16:35 PM  
Israel is "special".
 
2013-02-18 01:44:06 PM  
Is Israel truly allied with anyone?
 
2013-02-18 02:12:09 PM  

casual disregard: What you need to realize is that every nation spies on every other nation. Even allies. Especially allies.


Correct. And any spy caught betraying his country the way this guy did will be facing a similar fate.
But this is Israel so as always it's amusing to watch the regulars venting some hate.
 
2013-02-18 02:23:03 PM  
I can't see Israel paying enough for secrets to make it worthwhile
 
2013-02-18 02:24:10 PM  

casual disregard: What you need to realize is that every nation spies on every other nation. Even allies. Especially allies.


True dat. Countries don't have friends, they have interests
 
2013-02-18 02:25:57 PM  
Israel has a right to defend itself, and part of that means collecting intelligence.
 
2013-02-18 02:31:08 PM  

TappingTheVein: casual disregard: What you need to realize is that every nation spies on every other nation. Even allies. Especially allies.

Correct. And any spy caught betraying his country the way this guy did will be facing a similar fate.


Really a big part that matters is motive.  Actually letting the other people spy on you to a certain degree can be useful.  For example when you told the USSR that you were not preparing for a first strike nuclear attack, you want the KGB to confirm that.  Basically you want some KGB spy to be sending home messages saying "We don't need to worry about a first strike attack and we also don't want to consider one ourselves because the response would be devastating."  The CIA actually considered it ideal for the KGB to have success in some areas because of the policy benefits.  People who have no idea what is going on are more likely to be jumpy and make rash decisions.

However spying to confirm what the State Department says is one thing.  Stealing American intelligence assets for use in third party conflicts is not acceptable.  I fully expect that the UK has some wiretaps going and their intel folks are ensuring that we tell them we're doing is what we're really doing.  Trying to steal our maps to launch cruise missile strikes or the plans for the F-22 is a whole different game.

A modern example would be that we want the Chinese to see that we have no intention of using Afghanistan as a jump off point for a two pronged attack into China (namely the Afghani airfields giving us a shot at Chinese resource extraction sites in Western China).  As such China won't feel a strategic imperative to fund the Taliban and have them show our ass the door.  They might not like that we're in Central Asia, but a China mildly disgruntled over Afghanistan is very different from a China who thinks we're using policy in Central Asia to set up a vice to catch China in.

/plus if our allies needed maps or the like, odds are all they have to do is ask
 
2013-02-18 02:37:59 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Really a big part that matters is motive.


I agree. And in the next couple of weeks when the confirmed full story about the guy from the article is revealed, i wouldn't be surprised if he took his own life over guilt.
 
2013-02-18 04:10:51 PM  
super_grass:

Israel has a right to defend itself, and part of that means collecting intelligence.

Of course. But the USA also has a right to defend itself, and part of that means protecting our country from being spied on and keeping its government's policies from being unduly influenced by any foreign power or "special interest." All the lobbying is bad enough, we'd rather not have our country subverted by people who work for the US government but concentrate on furthering another country's government's interest.

Perhaps the US government should not allow dual citizens or those with divided loyalties to have sensitive jobs. For example, for some positions an American Jew should be an American Jew with no dual citizenship allowed. And yes, it should be the same for someone whose "alternate homeland" is any other country -- whose interests must diverge from ours or they would not be other countries.

According to Wikipedia, "Israel allows citizens to hold foreign citizenships in addition to their Israeli citizenship, a situation known as dual (or multiple) citizenship. For example, a citizen of Israel who also has a foreign citizenship is considered a foreign citizen in accordance to the Israeli Security Service Law and is subject to a mandatory military service according to that law; he is considered a citizen of Israel regarding the criminal liability of Israeli civilians according to the Israeli Rabbinical courts jurisdictions law. "

Israel has an interesting way to handle that: e.g., an American Jew with dual citizenship is subject to being drafted into the IDF, which will of course do all it can to lead the recruit/draftee to putting Israel first. I wonder why they'd do that, instead of automatically exempting an American Jew from the draft like they do Arab citizens of Israel. (Any ideas?)

The USA might therefore consider that a dual citizen of any other country who has served in the other country's military -- especially joining it voluntarily and especially if that military position involved tasks for which an ordinary infantryperson is not ordinarily trained, as well as a dual citizen who has or has recently had a sensitive position in the other country's government service (such as, oh, Mossad) -- should be ineligible for any US government/military position where that foreign service might somehow pose a conflict of interest.

If this means that a lot of American-and/or-Israeli Jews might have to renounce their Israeli citizenship or lose their current jobs and/or become ineligible for certain positions, well, at least we won't be rounding them up and put them in camps, nor will we make them "second-class citizens" in any way that does not directly touch on issues of national security. American-and/or-Israeli dual citizens might not need to be banned from US government service entirely, just exempt from jobs we would not trust any known foreign agent with. This might include the CIA, FBI, NSA, Homeland Security, military intelligence, US Senate or House of Representatives, any federal job requiring a high security clearance and any Cabinet position, or a close advisor to anyone in such a job; we might also prevent such a dual citizen from marrying someone who could not gain a high security clearance on his/her own.

The USA deserves to be as secure from foreign spies, agents or influences as any other nation-state, such as, oh, the Jewish State of Israel.

Conversely, it might be good if the USA stopped "occupying" Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and other territories that are not US states or parts of states. Or the US might grant them statehood or annexation by an existing state: as examples of the latter the Northern Marianas and Guam, for example, could become parts of Hawaii, as Puerto Rico could become a state and the Virgin Islands parts of that. If patriotic Americans are to continue being opposed to Israeli occupation of the West Bank we should practice what we preach; it helps that one notable difference is that the USA can make say Guam a state or part of a state without having to deport a very large portion of its native-born population for reasons of basic security. (There must be a reason why we don't expect the average Guamian to be fiercely anti-American but I can't quite put my finger on it now.)
 
2013-02-18 04:47:16 PM  
The relationship between Israel's intelligence agencies and ASIO soured when Australia expelled an Israeli diplomat in 2010, after an investigation found Australian passports were used in a suspected Mossad operation to assassinate Palestinian arms trader Mahmoud Mabhouh.

Where have I heard that before?  Oh that's right, they were caught trying to do the same thing in New Zealand.  And they were at it again in 2011.

They do this because Kiwis and Aussies are not suspected out and about in the world.  We're good folk, generally trusted, and mainly neutral in world affairs.  In a large number of countries we don't even need visas to visit.  And if they get caught, hey, it's not Israel that gets the bad name.  Although they're not special, I'm sure other intelligence services do the same.

Note the Israeli spies in the NZ story had American accents.  But I'm sure they'd never do anything to harm America.  Absolute patriots, I'm sure.
 
2013-02-18 05:43:07 PM  

bingo the psych-o: Is Israel truly allied with anyone?


Of course not, at least not by your standards of "allegiance." They do whatever it takes to survive, in spite of being surrounded by nations that have dedicated nearly a century worth of effort to wiping them out. That includes "betraying" their allies when these "allies" start funding and laying the groundwork for Israel's destruction.

/they think they're being clever by giving Israel no civilized option but to let itself be destroyed
//they forgot that they still have plenty of uncivilized options they could take
 
2013-02-18 06:14:45 PM  
"But you know, before I follow your zaydi into Olam Haba I think I should make aliyah and go from there. Maybe I'll live in a nice shiny new settlement where I can live as a Jew among nothing but Jews. Not like here where you can't get away from them, you know, the schwartzes. When I was a girl the older kids used to hang out at the Park Circle Drive-In, it was perfectly safe to be a Jew there in those days, but for the past 40 years at least that neighborhood has been a jungle even in broad daylight. And the jungle has been expanding, creeping up Reisterstown Road and Park Heights: these days I'm sorry but I won't go anywhere below Slade Avenue not even for High Holy Days. I'll leave that to the Lubavitch, those mesugganah. And you know it hasn't been safe in Pikesville at night not for a long time. Why last week I went antique shopping in Westminster with my neighbor Mrs. Cavacos -- you know her parents, Greeks, used to have that drug store on 36th Street, next to my cousin's jewelry store but of course they couldn't take credit -- and we even saw some of them there! In Carroll County! In the stores and everything, as if they had a right to go everywhere!

But what can you expect, the whole country's going to them. Colin Powell and that Condylizzy Rice or whatever her name is, now they even have a President. It's a shonda on the country, I say! I know, I know, you say 'But what about the Arabs?' Well, what about them? At least they're comprehensible. After all they are Semites, and their halal is like a dumbed-down kosher, they don't stink of pork or shellfish. And their religion -- you know the only reason there's Islam is this Muhammad wasn't content to be a ger toshav or even a convert, no, he wanted to jump right away into being another Bar Kokhba or something, G_d forbid. And it G_d forbid I were to be raped by one like people are so scared about at least he would be circumcised! Yes! That would make a very big difference!

So anyway. How's your cousin Roseanna? Is she still married to that shegetz who tries to be the man at seder? And their children, can they pray in Hebrew without having it spelled out in phonics? I know, at least he's an Adventist, they have the day right, but still."
 
2013-02-18 07:34:00 PM  

TappingTheVein: ha-ha-guy: Really a big part that matters is motive.

I agree. And in the next couple of weeks when the confirmed full story about the guy from the article is revealed, i wouldn't be surprised if he took his own life over guilt.


I'm more inclined to believe he took his own life as one final "fark you" to the Mossad. Suicide is already the ultimate form of attention whoring, and if you can make the country you betrayed look incompetent at best in the process (and look more like they're as murderously corrupt as the Soviet Union), so much the better.

/maybe Israel should see if Putin is amenable to an alliance
//his backstabbing can't be much worse than aiding and abetting rocket attacks on Tel Aviv
 
2013-02-18 08:09:05 PM  
If allies believe it's okay to start fabricating Australian passports, they aren't allies of Australia. Australia should suspend diplomatic relations entirely because if your government thinks it's legitimate to go around forging Australian government documents, there's no way that trust can exist between the two countries.
 
2013-02-18 09:08:39 PM  

Tatterdemalian: TappingTheVein: ha-ha-guy: Really a big part that matters is motive.

I agree. And in the next couple of weeks when the confirmed full story about the guy from the article is revealed, i wouldn't be surprised if he took his own life over guilt.

I'm more inclined to believe he took his own life as one final "fark you" to the Mossad. Suicide is already the ultimate form of attention whoring, and if you can make the country you betrayed look incompetent at best in the process

[...]


WIKI

Ben Zygier

Born:
9 December 1976, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


The country he BETRAYED was Australia.

Unless you want to reinforce age-old stereotypes about the "inherent dubious loyalty of Jews".

You wouldn't want to do that, would you?
 
2013-02-18 09:47:42 PM  
He probably loved both his place of birth and his adopted country. His adopted country ordering him to betray his place of birth (which is something that probably never occurred to him as he thought the two were friends) probably caused the internal conflict that triggered the outcome.

It's a reason why dual citizenship is a bad idea. Australia should go back to the pre-2002 policy of having people automatically lose Australian citizenship when they take the citizenship of another country:  http://www.citizenship.gov.au/current/dual_citizenship/

It was a bad idea and lead directly to this occuring.

"The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. "

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
 
2013-02-19 12:26:55 AM  
Suicide? Really? Umm... Israel, you're not fooling anyone. Like, nobody.
 
2013-02-19 04:00:32 AM  

Tatterdemalian: I'm more inclined to believe he took his own life as one final "fark you" to the Mossad.


According to his neighbors and people who knew him he wasn't such a bright individual and when we know what he actually did it will be a lot clearer. I believe he took his own life over guilt, based on unconfirmed info.

Amos Quito: Unless you want to reinforce age-old stereotypes about the "inherent dubious loyalty of Jews".

You wouldn't want to do that, would you?


No need, for that we have anti-semite sacks of shiat like yourself.
 
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