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(Oregon Live)   Republicans choose to spend their political capital by: C) Trying to overturn a school ban on Native American mascots   (oregonlive.com) divider line 139
    More: Silly, Oregon, political capital, Indians, House Republicans  
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1343 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Feb 2013 at 6:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-18 07:55:59 AM

Dracolich: The troll's basically dead.  If you have any fire or acid, you can finish the job.


Doesn't salt also work or am I confusing Trolls w/ Slugs again?
 
2013-02-18 07:56:12 AM

clambam: C'mon Indians have no political clout in this country. If you going to denigrate an ethnic group, they're the ones to go with. Right now the repubs can't make fun of blacks or Latinos, much as they'd like to, and they're simply not happy unless they're allowed to feel superior to some despised group or another. Bad enough there's a black president, the repubs now have to pander to the help if they want to win elections. In fact, the modern conservative is going through a severe case of contempt withdrawal. Will nobody think of the racists?



1.bp.blogspot.com
Approves
 
2013-02-18 07:57:38 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: AverageAmericanGuy: Philip Francis Queeg:And what of the Native American "locals"? Should they be ignored?

They have recourse with the courts.

On what basis? You've said that the government should stay out of this.


The legislature should stay out of it. If the individuals or even the entire tribe feel harmed by the existence of the mascot, then they can always sue.

They won't always win, but they have the right to sue.
 
2013-02-18 07:57:52 AM

veedeevadeevoodee: Keep this crap off the sports tab, pls.


I'd agree if the article wasn't about sports. Perhaps you should tell the AW politicians wasting their time trying to rile up sports fans, instead.
 
2013-02-18 08:02:09 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: So it is in many ways the voters' fault.  Rather than holding their legislators acountable they allow themselve's to get "sucked in" to these political games and become pawns rather than participants in the political process.  But Hell, that is almost the whole farking country nowadays.  No wonder wh can't have nioce things.  Sigh................................

Yes. No. It's impossible to pin the blame on any one party here. Whether it be the voters or the Democrats or the Republicans. The voters can only vote for those who they are presented with. They are only ever presented with a rosy picture of the candidates, and many with their hands in the pie aren't going to vote against their own interests.

It's a cultural thing. The people feel very disconnected with the government, seeing it as this monstrous 'other' that either helps pay the bills or is a heavy handed good squad. Tie that with a two party system that guarantees that independent voices are drowned out, and you've built a system that doesn't promote engagement with local government. Not many people are going to get involved if it looks like a waste of time. Only the very vain and the very driven put themselves up for candidacy.

It's not solvable. And that's fine with me, if the local government isn't a bunch of busybodies looking to wield their power at the expense of the locals, which is what I see the mascot ban as.


To me it sounds like it is the voters' fault. This "feeling disconnected with the government" to me is propoganda spoon fed to the general populace by the established powers, in order to keep power by making the voters seem powerless to the system.  That way rather than educating themselve's and organizing to pursue actual positive change, they feel helpless and apathetic; accepting what is "presented" to them rather than trying to make a difference.
 
2013-02-18 08:04:00 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: ndividuals or even the entire tribe feel harmed by the existence of the mascot, then they can always sue.

They won't always win, but they have the right to sue.


They should not have to sue. People should start by showing some basic respect for another group's heritage. Or is that too much to ask for?

Then again, these are Republicans we are discussing.
 
2013-02-18 08:05:33 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: You're trying to view it from someone else's perspective, but you're still not able to get outside of your own head.  This is fairly typical.  You believe that just because you personally could get over something that everyone in that position should have to.  Do you see the flaw?  Let's imagine that this caricature that you're using has kids.  Should they have to put up with it because you could?  Perhaps everyone in the world should have to endure insults, wouldn't that be a great place to live?

So the power of government should step in and eliminate school mascots? LOL. You've completely lost all sense of scale.


Oh look, you edited out the word "coward."  I guess I did offend you after all.  So, tell me, why can you edit out "coward" and they can't edit out a mascot?
 
2013-02-18 08:09:03 AM

heavymetal: To me it sounds like it is the voters' fault. This "feeling disconnected with the government" to me is propoganda spoon fed to the general populace by the established powers, in order to keep power by making the voters seem powerless to the system.  That way rather than educating themselve's and organizing to pursue actual positive change, they feel helpless and apathetic; accepting what is "presented" to them rather than trying to make a difference.


As the old saying goes, you are what you eat. If your culture is built on a certain set of themes, one of them being that government is mostly a waste of time unless you're looking for a handout, then you can't fault the people from that culture for believing that. Culture is self-perpetuating. Individuals in a culture are programmed and carry on the culture without even realizing it.

It took decades/centuries to build the American culture to this point. It's not going to change overnight, no matter how much you might want it to.

Rather, the onus would be on you to get involved, but you couldn't blame the rest of society because they were complacent. That's just the way things are, and you are the odd one out.
 
2013-02-18 08:10:30 AM

shotglasss: keylock71: shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?

It makes me smile that you clods still have chafed asses over this...

And that's Senator Elizabeth Warren to you, clod.

I like your butthurt over the way I pointed out what a liar she is.

 
2013-02-18 08:11:04 AM

Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.


Presumably, the GOP wouldn't object if some white, Christian school wanted to have a "Darky" mascot, either. I wonder if there's a special committee whose job is identifying new groups to offend.
 
2013-02-18 08:11:46 AM

Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: You're trying to view it from someone else's perspective, but you're still not able to get outside of your own head.  This is fairly typical.  You believe that just because you personally could get over something that everyone in that position should have to.  Do you see the flaw?  Let's imagine that this caricature that you're using has kids.  Should they have to put up with it because you could?  Perhaps everyone in the world should have to endure insults, wouldn't that be a great place to live?

So the power of government should step in and eliminate school mascots? LOL. You've completely lost all sense of scale.

Oh look, you edited out the word "coward."  I guess I did offend you after all.  So, tell me, why can you edit out "coward" and they can't edit out a mascot?


Perhaps you fail to discern the difference between editing a post of tangential name-calling and an act of government.
 
2013-02-18 08:13:00 AM
^%^%# unfetchable url &^*^%#&^
 
2013-02-18 08:23:18 AM
Once again, deficit spending is okay when Republicans do it.
 
2013-02-18 08:23:37 AM

shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?


It's hard to keep up with your conspiracy theories.  Is Sen. Warren part of your New Black Nazis, or is this part of your Vince Foster Conspiracy?

Thanks.
 
2013-02-18 08:26:24 AM

mksmith: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

Presumably, the GOP wouldn't object if some white, Christian school wanted to have a "Darky" mascot, either. I wonder if there's a special committee whose job is identifying new groups to offend.


I wonder what the GOP would say to having "Reagan the clumsy and absent-minded lap dog" for a mascot.
 
2013-02-18 08:27:39 AM

Raharu: shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?

It's hard to keep up with your conspiracy theories.  Is Sen. Warren part of your New Black Nazis, or is this part of your Vince Foster Conspiracy?

Thanks.


TBH, I think it's actually part of his Benghazi schtick.
 
2013-02-18 08:36:21 AM
You might say the supporters of the ban are on the warpath against those who want to repeal it. I, however, wouldn't say it.
 
2013-02-18 08:36:28 AM
Look, nothing honors our native people more than a drunken white frat boy dressed up like a Native American Chief and dancing around a basketball court.
 
2013-02-18 08:40:39 AM

Dracolich: It's really racist. These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side. If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.


I'll be honest, I'm not genuinely offended by the "Fighting Irish" (the championship game notwithstanding) but I'm sure I could muster some outrage if there was some money in it for me.
 
2013-02-18 08:49:33 AM
img.groundspeak.com

Western Massachusetts

/hot
 
2013-02-18 08:56:09 AM
thepinksmoke.com
 
2013-02-18 09:00:04 AM

GoldSpider: Dracolich: It's really racist. These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side. If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

I'll be honest, I'm not genuinely offended by the "Fighting Irish" (the championship game notwithstanding) but I'm sure I could muster some outrage if there was some money in it for me.


"Being Irish, I guess I should resent the Notre Dame nickname, "The Fighting Irish." After all, how long do you think nicknames like "The Bargaining Jews" or "The Murdering Italians" would last? Only the ironic Irish could be so naively honest. I get the feeling that Notre Dame came real close to naming itself "The farkin' Drunken, Thick-skulled, Brawling, Short-dicked Irish." - George Carlin
 
2013-02-18 09:11:08 AM
No mention of the Fighting Whities?
 
2013-02-18 09:18:27 AM

LarryDan43: Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court.

football field
 
2013-02-18 09:20:20 AM
mksmith:

Presumably, the GOP wouldn't object if some white, Christian school wanted to have a "Darky" mascot, either. I wonder if there's a special committee whose job is identifying new groups to offend.

RTFA. They are not objecting or promoting any nicknames.  Merely saying let the local school districts decide
 
2013-02-18 09:24:04 AM
I'm kinda torn on the whole mascot issue. While I understand that some mascots are caricatures which can be offensive, a mascot is a symbol for people to rally behind, and an ideal to aspire towards.

As a person of Nordic decent, I'm not offended by the Minessota Vikings, even though the actual mascot image is a cartoonish caricature of an actual viking warrior. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I understand that a mascot derrived from a culture can be offensive, I'm not sold on the idea that it necessarily is.

Maybe mascot design should be handled the same way the dress code is where I work: Don't get sent to HR. Wear whatever you like, but show basic respect for your fellow human beings, don't actively try to be offensive, and if people are offended by what you've chosen, make some adjustments to your choices.
 
2013-02-18 09:29:49 AM

Hang On Voltaire: RTFA. They are not objecting or promoting any nicknames. Merely saying let the local school districts decide


I sometimes wish I had the amount of leisure required for third-party outrage.
 
2013-02-18 09:58:57 AM

Fluorescent Testicle: That laser-like focus on jobs strikes again, I see.


The other side doesn't seem to be working on jobs either. Their plans have been holding growth back.
 
2013-02-18 10:21:16 AM

quatchi: Oh, FFS? Really? Really really?

I thought the "you can keep the team names but have to give up the mascots" thing was a decent compromise.

Rep. Sherri Sprenger (R-Scio), said she plans to introduce a bill in the House that would allow just that. Under her proposal, if a school district with a Native American mascot could reach an agreement with the local tribal government, they could apply for a waiver. If the school and the tribe fail to reach an agreement, the rule would stand.

WTF is this happening?

Roseburg High School, where Kruse played football in his teens, abandoned its Indian mascot more than a decade ago in deference to the Cow Creek Band of Umpqua Tribe of Indians, but kept the name.

Ok, got it.


Oh, Roseburg.

The place where this is a road sign, and down the road the fundies have put a "Noah's Ark" tourist trap at the entrance to a nature park that highlights a bit of evolution

Fark that part of Oregon.

//Ok, the red parts of Oregon as so conservative a Texan would say "Woah partner, calm down"
 
2013-02-18 10:24:20 AM

heavymetal: Of course one thing I notice what seems to be forgotten is it was the white European Christian settlers that many on the political "right" consider as "traditional Americans", who were the "enemy" stealing the Native Americans' land and attempting a genocide of their culture and people.


Because all those settlers were good God fearing folk who read the Bible and knew what Christ preached.
Nah, most of them couldn't even read.
Actually, I think your bias blinded you to the actual situation. Funny how whites are described Christian when the bashing starts yet so often, it's whites who doing the bashing. Don't let your anti-religous zealotry just pour more gas on the fire.
 
2013-02-18 10:28:51 AM

Hang On Voltaire: LarryDan43: Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field


Hi, middle aged white guy here.  I have never understood how the Seminole, Redskins, Apaches, tomahawk chop, braves..... could be racist.  I always saw these things as symbols of strenght and bravery.  So what if a  Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field.

Isn't Imitation the sincerest form of flattery.

/it was a sad day when my school had to change from the Warchiefs to the Colts.
 
2013-02-18 10:30:38 AM
Team names come in three flavors: Obscure local reference, ferocious or tenacious animal, ferocious or tenacious Indians. Indian team names put Native Americans on the level of animals.


heavymetal
They are the ones who gave us the term "brave" after all

"Etymology

French brave, borrowed from Italian bravo, itself either from Provençal brau ("show-off"), from Gaulish *bragos (compare Middle Irish breagha (modern breá) 'fine', Breton braga 'to strut') or from Latin *bravus, from a fusion of pravus and barbarus into a root *bravus."

Of course one thing I notice what seems to be forgotten is it was the white European Christian settlers that many on the political "right" consider as "traditional Americans", who were the "enemy" stealing the Native Americans' land and attempting a genocide of their culture and people. It is fighting them that gave Native Americans the image of being fearless warriors.

fark yeah noble savage


Hang On Voltaire
Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field

Jorn the Younger
As a person of Nordic decent, I'm not offended by the Minessota Vikings, even though the actual mascot image is a cartoonish caricature of an actual viking warrior. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I understand that a mascot derrived from a culture can be offensive, I'm not sold on the idea that it necessarily is.

Because there's so much painful (and ongoing) history of oppression of Vikings by white people?

Do you understand the difference between "We are ferocious animals" and "They are ferocious animals"?
 
2013-02-18 10:33:55 AM

pxsteel: Hang On Voltaire: LarryDan43: Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field

Hi, middle aged white guy here.  I have never understood how the Seminole, Redskins, Apaches, tomahawk chop, braves..... could be racist.  I always saw these things as symbols of strenght and bravery.  So what if a  Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field.

Isn't Imitation the sincerest form of flattery.

/it was a sad day when my school had to change from the Warchiefs to the Colts.


Seminoles and Apache... those are debatable... but REDSKINS?  Why not just name a team "The Negroes" and see how well that plays out...
 
2013-02-18 10:34:04 AM
pxsteel
/it was a sad day when my school had to change from the Warchiefs to the Colts.

Perfect example. In their mind, they went from one animal to another.
 
2013-02-18 10:40:08 AM
Incestuous Rednecks!
 
2013-02-18 10:46:13 AM
RanDomino:
Because there's so much painful (and ongoing) history of oppression of Vikings by white people?

Do you understand the difference between "We are ferocious animals" and "They are ferocious animals"?


Were the Irish oppressed in America? No one complains about "fighting Irish" or "Paddy wagons".

FSU does not portray their Seminole mascot as an animal.
 
2013-02-18 10:47:33 AM
Rhino_man:

Seminoles and Apache... those are debatable... but REDSKINS?  Why not just name a team "The Negroes" and see how well that plays out...

I agree.  Just because some Native American names are not offensive doesn't mean there aren't some that are
 
2013-02-18 10:51:08 AM

Hang On Voltaire: "Paddy wagons".


a) what team uses that?
b) who the hell even uses that term?
 
2013-02-18 10:53:37 AM

Rhino_man: pxsteel: Hang On Voltaire: LarryDan43: Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field

Hi, middle aged white guy here.  I have never understood how the Seminole, Redskins, Apaches, tomahawk chop, braves..... could be racist.  I always saw these things as symbols of strenght and bravery.  So what if a  Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field.

Isn't Imitation the sincerest form of flattery.

/it was a sad day when my school had to change from the Warchiefs to the Colts.

Seminoles and Apache... those are debatable... but REDSKINS?  Why not just name a team "The Negroes" and see how well that plays out...


Because only the overlysensitive see Redskins as a slur.  Negroes used properly is not a slur, however, if it is used improperly it is a slur.  Redskins as the name of a team or school is a symbol of strength.

You know one of the highest honors you can get is the Buffalo Soldier

Normal people don't see racism in every corner
 
2013-02-18 10:59:30 AM
Hang On Voltaire
Were the Irish oppressed in America? No one complains about "fighting Irish" or "Paddy wagons".

The Irish have been allowed into the gated community of Whiteness. 90 years ago you could have made an argument that the Minnesota Vikings was racist because of the contemporary anti-Finn racism. These things aren't problems anymore because the referenced population has been giving all the economic and social privilege of whiteness.

FSU does not portray their Seminole mascot as an animal.

I don't know about them specifically, but it doesn't affect my point that it's no coincidence that the other major category of mascots and team names is animals.
 
2013-02-18 11:00:52 AM

IAmRight: Hang On Voltaire: "Paddy wagons".

a) what team uses that?
b) who the hell even uses that term?


Still being used today
 
2013-02-18 11:02:35 AM

RanDomino: I don't know about them specifically, but it doesn't affect my point that it's no coincidence that the other major category of mascots and team names is animals.


"Some schools' mascots are animals.  Therefore all schools regard their mascots' namesake as animals."
 
2013-02-18 11:02:36 AM
pxsteel
Redskins as the name of a team or school is a symbol of strength.

Strong like a powerful, stupid animal...
 
2013-02-18 11:03:51 AM
GoldSpider
"Some schools' mascots are animals. Therefore all schools regard their mascots' namesake as animals."

A major category of team names is animals. Look at the underlying reasoning.
 
2013-02-18 11:10:06 AM
RanDomino:

I don't know about them specifically, but it doesn't affect my point that it's no coincidence that the other major category of mascots and team names is animals.

Also have Senators, Cavaliers, Cornhuskers, Sooners, Quakers, Trojans. Spartans, Mountaineers, Boilermakers, Midshipmen, Black Knights, Scarlet Knights, Tar Heels, Rebels, Generals.  I can keep going
 
2013-02-18 11:10:18 AM

RanDomino: A major category of team names is animals. Look at the underlying reasoning.


I always thought a school chose a mascot as a means to self-identify with something worthy of admiration.  You seem to think it is a gesture motivated by contempt.  I can't imagine why you would think that way.
 
2013-02-18 11:14:30 AM

RanDomino: pxsteel
Redskins as the name of a team or school is a symbol of strength.

Strong like a powerful, stupid animal...


Animals, especially those of the apex variety, are majestic, not stupid.
 
2013-02-18 11:21:31 AM
When I was at UMass Amherst, there was a guy who went on a hunger strike because he felt the mascot, The Minuteman, was a symbol of white domination of Native Americans and African-Americans...

His name was Marvin, so everyone started calling him "Starvin' Marvin". It was pretty funny. I think it lasted a week or two before he gave up the hunger strike.

graphics.fansonly.com


However, long before ol' Marvin, the University did change the name of the bar in the Student Union from "The Hatchet and Pipe" to "The Hatch" and the sports teams used to be known as the UMass Redmen.
 
2013-02-18 11:32:37 AM

Hang On Voltaire: Still being used today


1) in Ireland
2) in old-timey recreation
3) in an old-timey model
4) Ohio

So in the real world, no one really uses it except the Irish.
 
2013-02-18 11:38:05 AM

IAmRight: Hang On Voltaire: Still being used today

1) in Ireland
2) in old-timey recreation
3) in an old-timey model
4) Ohio

So in the real world, no one really uses it except the Irish.


Spent five years living in Dublin and never once heard the term "Paddy Wagon". They were usually referred to as "Black Mariahs". "Paddy Wagon" is more of an American thing. Though, there's a lot of crossover these days, I suppose.


Nitpicking, of course...
 
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