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(Oregon Live)   Republicans choose to spend their political capital by: C) Trying to overturn a school ban on Native American mascots   (oregonlive.com) divider line 139
    More: Silly, Oregon, political capital, Indians, House Republicans  
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1344 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Feb 2013 at 6:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



139 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-02-18 06:19:11 AM  
Oh, FFS? Really? Really really?

I thought the "you can keep the team names but have to give up the mascots" thing was a decent compromise.

Rep. Sherri Sprenger (R-Scio), said she plans to introduce a bill in the House that would allow just that. Under her proposal, if a school district with a Native American mascot could reach an agreement with the local tribal government, they could apply for a waiver. If the school and the tribe fail to reach an agreement, the rule would stand.

WTF is this happening?

Roseburg High School, where Kruse played football in his teens, abandoned its Indian mascot more than a decade ago in deference to the Cow Creek Band of Umpqua Tribe of Indians, but kept the name.

Ok, got it.
 
2013-02-18 06:35:43 AM  
That laser-like focus on jobs strikes again, I see.
 
2013-02-18 06:35:54 AM  
Well, I suppose it's an upgrade from trying to force women to have trans-vaginal ultrasounds or convincing people that rape is a "gift from god"...
 
2013-02-18 06:38:57 AM  
I read that many of the North American Tribes embraced Christianity responding, "It's easy for us to believe in your Jesus, because we already believe in your God."

Why not treat these mascot situations the same way?
 
2013-02-18 06:40:43 AM  
Thought police on the prowl again in Oregon. Republicans stand up for tradition and get shouted down by edgy libs.

Nothing new under the sun.
 
2013-02-18 06:44:49 AM  
Dickheads on the prowl again in Oregon. Decent people stand up for tolerance & respect and get shouted at by edgy "conservatives".

Nothing new under the sun.
 
2013-02-18 06:47:57 AM  
Well, at least their not using dead kids to try to claim inanimate objects have intent.
 
2013-02-18 06:50:07 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: That laser-like focus on jobs strikes again, I see.


Are you saying bringing those Mascot Jobs back won't turn Oregon's economy completely around?

Wow, you're pretty cynical.

*clicks on profile*

Okay, scratch the cynical part.

/Yes, just being silly now.
//It's 3:49 and the mods are still awake so I can't post ponies. >.<
///Also I'm out of pie.
 
2013-02-18 06:50:12 AM  
The bill:

Prohibits State Board of Education from adopting rules or imposing sanctions related to use of mascots by public schools.

OMG the humanity!!!
 
2013-02-18 06:50:12 AM  
Among right-wingers this is also a 'thing' here in Wisconsin -- there's a teabagger legislative agenda wishlist out there for the current session and IIRC somewhere in the top ten items they'd like to accomplish is overturning Wisconsin's ban on Native American-related team nicknames, buried in there among the other things like emasculating appeals courts, making it harder to vote, etc.
 
2013-02-18 06:50:37 AM  
This guy *really* wants a well-muscled brave in a loincloth cheering on young men in super-tight pants piling on one another, doesn't he?
 
2013-02-18 06:52:09 AM  
Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?
 
2013-02-18 06:53:21 AM  
Republicans have political capital???
 
2013-02-18 06:53:34 AM  
The Republicans have political capital?
 
2013-02-18 06:55:52 AM  

shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?


It makes me smile that you clods still have chafed asses over this...

And that's Senator Elizabeth Warren to you, clod.
 
2013-02-18 06:56:27 AM  

lordjupiter: Republicans have political capital???


13 seconds, damn you!
 
2013-02-18 06:56:48 AM  
As a person with 1/4 Apache heritage through my grandmother, I tend to find most Native American mascots as an honor towards the fighting spirit of the Native Americans. They are the ones who gave us the term "brave" after all, and to brush aside their fearlessness and bravery shown against a stronger and better armed "enemy" should not be forgotten.

Of course one thing I notice what seems to be forgotten is it was the white European Christian settlers that many on the political "right" consider as "traditional Americans", who were the "enemy" stealing the Native Americans' land and attempting a genocide of their culture and people. It is fighting them that gave Native Americans the image of being fearless warriors. I'll bet if you made the teaching of that fact to the student body as a condition of reinstituting the Native American mascots, the Republicans would balk.

That being said, this is just another "wedge issue" that even if the Republicans win absolutely nothing will be accomplished. People will continue to be unemployed, schools will continue to be underfunded, homelessness will continue, crime will not be reduced, etc. This seems to be the Republican's M.O. Go after issues that do nothing to fix the problems you can blame on the "liberal strawman", but allows you to score political points and divide the populace.

With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.
 
2013-02-18 06:59:47 AM  

heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.


And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.
 
2013-02-18 07:04:45 AM  
Keep this crap off the sports tab, pls.
 
2013-02-18 07:12:21 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.


It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.
 
2013-02-18 07:14:40 AM  
I can practically FEEL the billions of jobs this is sure to create!
 
2013-02-18 07:15:34 AM  

veedeevadeevoodee: Keep this crap off the sports tab, pls.


At least we're talking actual sports and not wrasslin'.
 
2013-02-18 07:15:54 AM  

Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.


I am a black from Nashville, Tennessee.
 
2013-02-18 07:16:13 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.


Good point.  Still doesn't justify them continuing a useless fight when the energy could be used towards something productive, but that can be applied to both sides.  You are correct, it shows all parties involved have their priorities in the wrong place.
 
2013-02-18 07:17:09 AM  

keylock71: shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?

It makes me smile that you clods still have chafed asses over this...

And that's Senator Elizabeth Warren to you, clod.


I like your butthurt over the way I pointed out what a liar she is.
 
2013-02-18 07:17:42 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

I am a black from Nashville, Tennessee.


It's interesting that you could get that wrong.  What are you afraid of?
 
2013-02-18 07:18:02 AM  

heavymetal: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

Good point.  Still doesn't justify them continuing a useless fight when the energy could be used towards something productive, but that can be applied to both sides.  You are correct, it shows all parties involved have their priorities in the wrong place.


At the local level, once the budget is worked out, this is all that really remains of the legislators' jobs.
 
2013-02-18 07:19:46 AM  

Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

I am a black from Nashville, Tennessee.

It's interesting that you could get that wrong.  What are you afraid of?


Are you afraid of offending me? LOL. Give it your best shot.
 
2013-02-18 07:20:44 AM  
Are Native Americans allowed to establish new tribes?
 
2013-02-18 07:21:20 AM  

Dracolich: It's interesting that you could get that wrong.  What are you afraid of?


Psst: He's a troll, he's not really "A black" (come on, who the hell says that?).
 
2013-02-18 07:21:43 AM  

Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.


Good point also.  While what is considered to be "offensive" can be often debated, it is amusing how the Republicans always seem to take the side which wants to continue offending or oppressing. Then they wonder why their party seems to have the image problem they do regarding minorities and women despite all the Rubio's, Jimdal's, Cains, and Bachmans they march out.
 
2013-02-18 07:22:33 AM  

shotglasss: keylock71: shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?

It makes me smile that you clods still have chafed asses over this...

And that's Senator Elizabeth Warren to you, clod.

I like your butthurt over the way I pointed out what a liar she is.



I see we can add "butthurt" to the list of terms and concepts you don't understand...
 
2013-02-18 07:22:49 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

I am a black from Nashville, Tennessee.

It's interesting that you could get that wrong.  What are you afraid of?

Are you afraid of offending me? LOL. Give it your best shot.


You've already lost this one.  It's pretty clear that you weren't willing to put out real information by the decoy information that you used.  This means you're a coward.
 
2013-02-18 07:27:43 AM  

Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

I am a black from Nashville, Tennessee.

It's interesting that you could get that wrong.  What are you afraid of?

Are you afraid of offending me? LOL. Give it your best shot.

You've already lost this one.  It's pretty clear that you weren't willing to put out real information by the decoy information that you used.  This means you're a coward.

 I have to disagree. I've dealt with racism and prejudice all my life. I take no offense at this kind of thing. It's just a mascot.
But you still want to teach me a lesson here? Go on. Show me what it's like on "the other side".
 
2013-02-18 07:28:06 AM  
AverageAmericanGuy: I  am a black from Nashville, Tennessee.

And I'm an 8 1/2 foot tall sasquatch, good to meet you.
 
2013-02-18 07:28:14 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

Good point.  Still doesn't justify them continuing a useless fight when the energy could be used towards something productive, but that can be applied to both sides.  You are correct, it shows all parties involved have their priorities in the wrong place.

At the local level, once the budget is worked out, this is all that really remains of the legislators' jobs.


So it is in many ways the voters' fault.  Rather than holding their legislators acountable they allow themselve's to get "sucked in" to these political games and become pawns rather than participants in the political process.  But Hell, that is almost the whole farking country nowadays.  No wonder wh can't have nioce things.  Sigh................................
 
2013-02-18 07:31:06 AM  

quatchi: AverageAmericanGuy: I  am a black from Nashville, Tennessee.

And I'm an 8 1/2 foot tall sasquatch, good to meet you.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-02-18 07:32:46 AM  

keylock71: shotglasss: keylock71: shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?

It makes me smile that you clods still have chafed asses over this...

And that's Senator Elizabeth Warren to you, clod.

I like your butthurt over the way I pointed out what a liar she is.


I see we can add "butthurt" to the list of terms and concepts you don't understand...


Warren will never be respected. Didn't you read that thread about models. All that book learning means nothing compared to looks.
 
2013-02-18 07:36:20 AM  

quatchi: And I'm an 8 1/2 foot tall sasquatch, good to meet you.


25.media.tumblr.com

It's a farkin' samsquanch!
 
2013-02-18 07:38:55 AM  
I sort of like the ring of the Oregon Diarrhoeal Smallpoxian Patriots as a mascot name.

I wonder of the GOP derpmeisters could work with that name instead?

That would be the shiat.


img2.imagesbn.com
 
2013-02-18 07:39:29 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

I am a black from Nashville, Tennessee.

It's interesting that you could get that wrong.  What are you afraid of?

Are you afraid of offending me? LOL. Give it your best shot.

You've already lost this one.  It's pretty clear that you weren't willing to put out real information by the decoy information that you used.  This means you're a coward.
 I have to disagree. I've dealt with racism and prejudice all my life. I take no offense at this kind of thing. It's just a mascot.
But you still want to teach me a lesson here? Go on. Show me what it's like on "the other side".


Look, coward, it's clear you're still pretending so let's go ahead and teach you anyway to aid your shame.  You're trying to view it from someone else's perspective, but you're still not able to get outside of your own head.  This is fairly typical.  You believe that just because you personally could get over something that everyone in that position should have to.  Do you see the flaw?  Let's imagine that this caricature that you're using has kids.  Should they have to put up with it because you could?  Perhaps everyone in the world should have to endure insults, wouldn't that be a great place to live?  It's ironic that you don't get it, given that you didn't want to face it yourself.  Coward.
 
2013-02-18 07:43:45 AM  

johnryan51: Warren will never be respected. Didn't you read that thread about models. All that book learning means nothing compared to looks.


Heh... No, I missed that one.

The whole "controversy" was hilarious, though... Scott Brown tried so hard to make an issue of it, as did various groups from outside the Commonwealth, and yet in poll after poll 60%+ of MA residents didn't really care about it.

Trying to drum up outrage over this actually hurt Brown's campaign.

Also...

www.troycitydesign.com
 
2013-02-18 07:45:54 AM  

heavymetal: So it is in many ways the voters' fault.  Rather than holding their legislators acountable they allow themselve's to get "sucked in" to these political games and become pawns rather than participants in the political process.  But Hell, that is almost the whole farking country nowadays.  No wonder wh can't have nioce things.  Sigh................................


Yes. No. It's impossible to pin the blame on any one party here. Whether it be the voters or the Democrats or the Republicans. The voters can only vote for those who they are presented with. They are only ever presented with a rosy picture of the candidates, and many with their hands in the pie aren't going to vote against their own interests.

It's a cultural thing. The people feel very disconnected with the government, seeing it as this monstrous 'other' that either helps pay the bills or is a heavy handed good squad. Tie that with a two party system that guarantees that independent voices are drowned out, and you've built a system that doesn't promote engagement with local government. Not many people are going to get involved if it looks like a waste of time. Only the very vain and the very driven put themselves up for candidacy.

It's not solvable. And that's fine with me, if the local government isn't a bunch of busybodies looking to wield their power at the expense of the locals, which is what I see the mascot ban as.
 
2013-02-18 07:50:13 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: So it is in many ways the voters' fault.  Rather than holding their legislators acountable they allow themselve's to get "sucked in" to these political games and become pawns rather than participants in the political process.  But Hell, that is almost the whole farking country nowadays.  No wonder wh can't have nioce things.  Sigh................................

Yes. No. It's impossible to pin the blame on any one party here. Whether it be the voters or the Democrats or the Republicans. The voters can only vote for those who they are presented with. They are only ever presented with a rosy picture of the candidates, and many with their hands in the pie aren't going to vote against their own interests.

It's a cultural thing. The people feel very disconnected with the government, seeing it as this monstrous 'other' that either helps pay the bills or is a heavy handed good squad. Tie that with a two party system that guarantees that independent voices are drowned out, and you've built a system that doesn't promote engagement with local government. Not many people are going to get involved if it looks like a waste of time. Only the very vain and the very driven put themselves up for candidacy.

It's not solvable. And that's fine with me, if the local government isn't a bunch of busybodies looking to wield their power at the expense of the locals, which is what I see the mascot ban as.



And what of the Native American "locals"? Should they be ignored?
 
2013-02-18 07:51:43 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: So it is in many ways the voters' fault.  Rather than holding their legislators acountable they allow themselve's to get "sucked in" to these political games and become pawns rather than participants in the political process.  But Hell, that is almost the whole farking country nowadays.  No wonder wh can't have nioce things.  Sigh................................

Yes. No. It's impossible to pin the blame on any one party here. Whether it be the voters or the Democrats or the Republicans. The voters can only vote for those who they are presented with. They are only ever presented with a rosy picture of the candidates, and many with their hands in the pie aren't going to vote against their own interests.

It's a cultural thing. The people feel very disconnected with the government, seeing it as this monstrous 'other' that either helps pay the bills or is a heavy handed good squad. Tie that with a two party system that guarantees that independent voices are drowned out, and you've built a system that doesn't promote engagement with local government. Not many people are going to get involved if it looks like a waste of time. Only the very vain and the very driven put themselves up for candidacy.

It's not solvable. And that's fine with me, if the local government isn't a bunch of busybodies looking to wield their power at the expense of the locals, which is what I see the mascot ban as.


And what of the Native American "locals"? Should they be ignored?


The troll's basically dead.  If you have any fire or acid, you can finish the job.
 
2013-02-18 07:52:33 AM  

Dracolich: You're trying to view it from someone else's perspective, but you're still not able to get outside of your own head.  This is fairly typical.  You believe that just because you personally could get over something that everyone in that position should have to.  Do you see the flaw?  Let's imagine that this caricature that you're using has kids.  Should they have to put up with it because you could?  Perhaps everyone in the world should have to endure insults, wouldn't that be a great place to live?


So the power of government should step in and eliminate school mascots? LOL. You've completely lost all sense of scale.
 
2013-02-18 07:53:15 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: So it is in many ways the voters' fault.  Rather than holding their legislators acountable they allow themselve's to get "sucked in" to these political games and become pawns rather than participants in the political process.  But Hell, that is almost the whole farking country nowadays.  No wonder wh can't have nioce things.  Sigh................................

Yes. No. It's impossible to pin the blame on any one party here. Whether it be the voters or the Democrats or the Republicans. The voters can only vote for those who they are presented with. They are only ever presented with a rosy picture of the candidates, and many with their hands in the pie aren't going to vote against their own interests.

It's a cultural thing. The people feel very disconnected with the government, seeing it as this monstrous 'other' that either helps pay the bills or is a heavy handed good squad. Tie that with a two party system that guarantees that independent voices are drowned out, and you've built a system that doesn't promote engagement with local government. Not many people are going to get involved if it looks like a waste of time. Only the very vain and the very driven put themselves up for candidacy.

It's not solvable. And that's fine with me, if the local government isn't a bunch of busybodies looking to wield their power at the expense of the locals, which is what I see the mascot ban as.


And what of the Native American "locals"? Should they be ignored?


They have recourse with the courts.
 
2013-02-18 07:53:35 AM  
C'mon Indians have no political clout in this country. If you going to denigrate an ethnic group, they're the ones to go with. Right now the repubs can't make fun of blacks or Latinos, much as they'd like to, and they're simply not happy unless they're allowed to feel superior to some despised group or another. Bad enough there's a black president, the repubs now have to pander to the help if they want to win elections. In fact, the modern conservative is going through a severe case of contempt withdrawal. Will nobody think of the racists?
 
2013-02-18 07:54:47 AM  
Fluorescent Testicle: It's a farkin' samsquanch!

Bubbles rules!

He gets to live when the Sasquatchs ride up and take over this silly country.

/Someone is gonna hafta take care of all the kitties.
 
2013-02-18 07:55:31 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Philip Francis Queeg: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: So it is in many ways the voters' fault.  Rather than holding their legislators acountable they allow themselve's to get "sucked in" to these political games and become pawns rather than participants in the political process.  But Hell, that is almost the whole farking country nowadays.  No wonder wh can't have nioce things.  Sigh................................

Yes. No. It's impossible to pin the blame on any one party here. Whether it be the voters or the Democrats or the Republicans. The voters can only vote for those who they are presented with. They are only ever presented with a rosy picture of the candidates, and many with their hands in the pie aren't going to vote against their own interests.

It's a cultural thing. The people feel very disconnected with the government, seeing it as this monstrous 'other' that either helps pay the bills or is a heavy handed good squad. Tie that with a two party system that guarantees that independent voices are drowned out, and you've built a system that doesn't promote engagement with local government. Not many people are going to get involved if it looks like a waste of time. Only the very vain and the very driven put themselves up for candidacy.

It's not solvable. And that's fine with me, if the local government isn't a bunch of busybodies looking to wield their power at the expense of the locals, which is what I see the mascot ban as.


And what of the Native American "locals"? Should they be ignored?

They have recourse with the courts.


On what basis? You've said that the government should stay out of this.
 
2013-02-18 07:55:59 AM  

Dracolich: The troll's basically dead.  If you have any fire or acid, you can finish the job.


Doesn't salt also work or am I confusing Trolls w/ Slugs again?
 
2013-02-18 07:56:12 AM  

clambam: C'mon Indians have no political clout in this country. If you going to denigrate an ethnic group, they're the ones to go with. Right now the repubs can't make fun of blacks or Latinos, much as they'd like to, and they're simply not happy unless they're allowed to feel superior to some despised group or another. Bad enough there's a black president, the repubs now have to pander to the help if they want to win elections. In fact, the modern conservative is going through a severe case of contempt withdrawal. Will nobody think of the racists?



1.bp.blogspot.com
Approves
 
2013-02-18 07:57:38 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: AverageAmericanGuy: Philip Francis Queeg:And what of the Native American "locals"? Should they be ignored?

They have recourse with the courts.

On what basis? You've said that the government should stay out of this.


The legislature should stay out of it. If the individuals or even the entire tribe feel harmed by the existence of the mascot, then they can always sue.

They won't always win, but they have the right to sue.
 
2013-02-18 07:57:52 AM  

veedeevadeevoodee: Keep this crap off the sports tab, pls.


I'd agree if the article wasn't about sports. Perhaps you should tell the AW politicians wasting their time trying to rile up sports fans, instead.
 
2013-02-18 08:02:09 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: So it is in many ways the voters' fault.  Rather than holding their legislators acountable they allow themselve's to get "sucked in" to these political games and become pawns rather than participants in the political process.  But Hell, that is almost the whole farking country nowadays.  No wonder wh can't have nioce things.  Sigh................................

Yes. No. It's impossible to pin the blame on any one party here. Whether it be the voters or the Democrats or the Republicans. The voters can only vote for those who they are presented with. They are only ever presented with a rosy picture of the candidates, and many with their hands in the pie aren't going to vote against their own interests.

It's a cultural thing. The people feel very disconnected with the government, seeing it as this monstrous 'other' that either helps pay the bills or is a heavy handed good squad. Tie that with a two party system that guarantees that independent voices are drowned out, and you've built a system that doesn't promote engagement with local government. Not many people are going to get involved if it looks like a waste of time. Only the very vain and the very driven put themselves up for candidacy.

It's not solvable. And that's fine with me, if the local government isn't a bunch of busybodies looking to wield their power at the expense of the locals, which is what I see the mascot ban as.


To me it sounds like it is the voters' fault. This "feeling disconnected with the government" to me is propoganda spoon fed to the general populace by the established powers, in order to keep power by making the voters seem powerless to the system.  That way rather than educating themselve's and organizing to pursue actual positive change, they feel helpless and apathetic; accepting what is "presented" to them rather than trying to make a difference.
 
2013-02-18 08:04:00 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: ndividuals or even the entire tribe feel harmed by the existence of the mascot, then they can always sue.

They won't always win, but they have the right to sue.


They should not have to sue. People should start by showing some basic respect for another group's heritage. Or is that too much to ask for?

Then again, these are Republicans we are discussing.
 
2013-02-18 08:05:33 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: You're trying to view it from someone else's perspective, but you're still not able to get outside of your own head.  This is fairly typical.  You believe that just because you personally could get over something that everyone in that position should have to.  Do you see the flaw?  Let's imagine that this caricature that you're using has kids.  Should they have to put up with it because you could?  Perhaps everyone in the world should have to endure insults, wouldn't that be a great place to live?

So the power of government should step in and eliminate school mascots? LOL. You've completely lost all sense of scale.


Oh look, you edited out the word "coward."  I guess I did offend you after all.  So, tell me, why can you edit out "coward" and they can't edit out a mascot?
 
2013-02-18 08:09:03 AM  

heavymetal: To me it sounds like it is the voters' fault. This "feeling disconnected with the government" to me is propoganda spoon fed to the general populace by the established powers, in order to keep power by making the voters seem powerless to the system.  That way rather than educating themselve's and organizing to pursue actual positive change, they feel helpless and apathetic; accepting what is "presented" to them rather than trying to make a difference.


As the old saying goes, you are what you eat. If your culture is built on a certain set of themes, one of them being that government is mostly a waste of time unless you're looking for a handout, then you can't fault the people from that culture for believing that. Culture is self-perpetuating. Individuals in a culture are programmed and carry on the culture without even realizing it.

It took decades/centuries to build the American culture to this point. It's not going to change overnight, no matter how much you might want it to.

Rather, the onus would be on you to get involved, but you couldn't blame the rest of society because they were complacent. That's just the way things are, and you are the odd one out.
 
2013-02-18 08:10:30 AM  

shotglasss: keylock71: shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?

It makes me smile that you clods still have chafed asses over this...

And that's Senator Elizabeth Warren to you, clod.

I like your butthurt over the way I pointed out what a liar she is.

 
2013-02-18 08:11:04 AM  

Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.


Presumably, the GOP wouldn't object if some white, Christian school wanted to have a "Darky" mascot, either. I wonder if there's a special committee whose job is identifying new groups to offend.
 
2013-02-18 08:11:46 AM  

Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: Dracolich: You're trying to view it from someone else's perspective, but you're still not able to get outside of your own head.  This is fairly typical.  You believe that just because you personally could get over something that everyone in that position should have to.  Do you see the flaw?  Let's imagine that this caricature that you're using has kids.  Should they have to put up with it because you could?  Perhaps everyone in the world should have to endure insults, wouldn't that be a great place to live?

So the power of government should step in and eliminate school mascots? LOL. You've completely lost all sense of scale.

Oh look, you edited out the word "coward."  I guess I did offend you after all.  So, tell me, why can you edit out "coward" and they can't edit out a mascot?


Perhaps you fail to discern the difference between editing a post of tangential name-calling and an act of government.
 
2013-02-18 08:13:00 AM  
^%^%# unfetchable url &^*^%#&^
 
2013-02-18 08:23:18 AM  
Once again, deficit spending is okay when Republicans do it.
 
2013-02-18 08:23:37 AM  

shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?


It's hard to keep up with your conspiracy theories.  Is Sen. Warren part of your New Black Nazis, or is this part of your Vince Foster Conspiracy?

Thanks.
 
2013-02-18 08:26:24 AM  

mksmith: Dracolich: AverageAmericanGuy: heavymetal: With Republicans today It is not about making our nation a better place to live, but rather scorring political points to win the next election while not upsetting their wealthy donors/handlers.

And the move to ban the mascots made the nation better to live in? Because from here it looks like cheap political point grabbing.

It's really racist.  These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side.  If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

Presumably, the GOP wouldn't object if some white, Christian school wanted to have a "Darky" mascot, either. I wonder if there's a special committee whose job is identifying new groups to offend.


I wonder what the GOP would say to having "Reagan the clumsy and absent-minded lap dog" for a mascot.
 
2013-02-18 08:27:39 AM  

Raharu: shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?

It's hard to keep up with your conspiracy theories.  Is Sen. Warren part of your New Black Nazis, or is this part of your Vince Foster Conspiracy?

Thanks.


TBH, I think it's actually part of his Benghazi schtick.
 
2013-02-18 08:36:21 AM  
You might say the supporters of the ban are on the warpath against those who want to repeal it. I, however, wouldn't say it.
 
2013-02-18 08:36:28 AM  
Look, nothing honors our native people more than a drunken white frat boy dressed up like a Native American Chief and dancing around a basketball court.
 
2013-02-18 08:40:39 AM  

Dracolich: It's really racist. These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side. If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.


I'll be honest, I'm not genuinely offended by the "Fighting Irish" (the championship game notwithstanding) but I'm sure I could muster some outrage if there was some money in it for me.
 
2013-02-18 08:49:33 AM  
img.groundspeak.com

Western Massachusetts

/hot
 
2013-02-18 08:56:09 AM  
thepinksmoke.com
 
2013-02-18 09:00:04 AM  

GoldSpider: Dracolich: It's really racist. These kinds of things may be easier to see from the other side. If you tell us your heritage, we can assist by using it to try to offend you.

I'll be honest, I'm not genuinely offended by the "Fighting Irish" (the championship game notwithstanding) but I'm sure I could muster some outrage if there was some money in it for me.


"Being Irish, I guess I should resent the Notre Dame nickname, "The Fighting Irish." After all, how long do you think nicknames like "The Bargaining Jews" or "The Murdering Italians" would last? Only the ironic Irish could be so naively honest. I get the feeling that Notre Dame came real close to naming itself "The farkin' Drunken, Thick-skulled, Brawling, Short-dicked Irish." - George Carlin
 
2013-02-18 09:11:08 AM  
No mention of the Fighting Whities?
 
2013-02-18 09:18:27 AM  

LarryDan43: Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court.

football field
 
2013-02-18 09:20:20 AM  
mksmith:

Presumably, the GOP wouldn't object if some white, Christian school wanted to have a "Darky" mascot, either. I wonder if there's a special committee whose job is identifying new groups to offend.

RTFA. They are not objecting or promoting any nicknames.  Merely saying let the local school districts decide
 
2013-02-18 09:24:04 AM  
I'm kinda torn on the whole mascot issue. While I understand that some mascots are caricatures which can be offensive, a mascot is a symbol for people to rally behind, and an ideal to aspire towards.

As a person of Nordic decent, I'm not offended by the Minessota Vikings, even though the actual mascot image is a cartoonish caricature of an actual viking warrior. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I understand that a mascot derrived from a culture can be offensive, I'm not sold on the idea that it necessarily is.

Maybe mascot design should be handled the same way the dress code is where I work: Don't get sent to HR. Wear whatever you like, but show basic respect for your fellow human beings, don't actively try to be offensive, and if people are offended by what you've chosen, make some adjustments to your choices.
 
2013-02-18 09:29:49 AM  

Hang On Voltaire: RTFA. They are not objecting or promoting any nicknames. Merely saying let the local school districts decide


I sometimes wish I had the amount of leisure required for third-party outrage.
 
2013-02-18 09:58:57 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: That laser-like focus on jobs strikes again, I see.


The other side doesn't seem to be working on jobs either. Their plans have been holding growth back.
 
2013-02-18 10:21:16 AM  

quatchi: Oh, FFS? Really? Really really?

I thought the "you can keep the team names but have to give up the mascots" thing was a decent compromise.

Rep. Sherri Sprenger (R-Scio), said she plans to introduce a bill in the House that would allow just that. Under her proposal, if a school district with a Native American mascot could reach an agreement with the local tribal government, they could apply for a waiver. If the school and the tribe fail to reach an agreement, the rule would stand.

WTF is this happening?

Roseburg High School, where Kruse played football in his teens, abandoned its Indian mascot more than a decade ago in deference to the Cow Creek Band of Umpqua Tribe of Indians, but kept the name.

Ok, got it.


Oh, Roseburg.

The place where this is a road sign, and down the road the fundies have put a "Noah's Ark" tourist trap at the entrance to a nature park that highlights a bit of evolution

Fark that part of Oregon.

//Ok, the red parts of Oregon as so conservative a Texan would say "Woah partner, calm down"
 
2013-02-18 10:24:20 AM  

heavymetal: Of course one thing I notice what seems to be forgotten is it was the white European Christian settlers that many on the political "right" consider as "traditional Americans", who were the "enemy" stealing the Native Americans' land and attempting a genocide of their culture and people.


Because all those settlers were good God fearing folk who read the Bible and knew what Christ preached.
Nah, most of them couldn't even read.
Actually, I think your bias blinded you to the actual situation. Funny how whites are described Christian when the bashing starts yet so often, it's whites who doing the bashing. Don't let your anti-religous zealotry just pour more gas on the fire.
 
2013-02-18 10:28:51 AM  

Hang On Voltaire: LarryDan43: Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field


Hi, middle aged white guy here.  I have never understood how the Seminole, Redskins, Apaches, tomahawk chop, braves..... could be racist.  I always saw these things as symbols of strenght and bravery.  So what if a  Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field.

Isn't Imitation the sincerest form of flattery.

/it was a sad day when my school had to change from the Warchiefs to the Colts.
 
2013-02-18 10:30:38 AM  
Team names come in three flavors: Obscure local reference, ferocious or tenacious animal, ferocious or tenacious Indians. Indian team names put Native Americans on the level of animals.


heavymetal
They are the ones who gave us the term "brave" after all

"Etymology

French brave, borrowed from Italian bravo, itself either from Provençal brau ("show-off"), from Gaulish *bragos (compare Middle Irish breagha (modern breá) 'fine', Breton braga 'to strut') or from Latin *bravus, from a fusion of pravus and barbarus into a root *bravus."

Of course one thing I notice what seems to be forgotten is it was the white European Christian settlers that many on the political "right" consider as "traditional Americans", who were the "enemy" stealing the Native Americans' land and attempting a genocide of their culture and people. It is fighting them that gave Native Americans the image of being fearless warriors.

fark yeah noble savage


Hang On Voltaire
Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field

Jorn the Younger
As a person of Nordic decent, I'm not offended by the Minessota Vikings, even though the actual mascot image is a cartoonish caricature of an actual viking warrior. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I understand that a mascot derrived from a culture can be offensive, I'm not sold on the idea that it necessarily is.

Because there's so much painful (and ongoing) history of oppression of Vikings by white people?

Do you understand the difference between "We are ferocious animals" and "They are ferocious animals"?
 
2013-02-18 10:33:55 AM  

pxsteel: Hang On Voltaire: LarryDan43: Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field

Hi, middle aged white guy here.  I have never understood how the Seminole, Redskins, Apaches, tomahawk chop, braves..... could be racist.  I always saw these things as symbols of strenght and bravery.  So what if a  Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field.

Isn't Imitation the sincerest form of flattery.

/it was a sad day when my school had to change from the Warchiefs to the Colts.


Seminoles and Apache... those are debatable... but REDSKINS?  Why not just name a team "The Negroes" and see how well that plays out...
 
2013-02-18 10:34:04 AM  
pxsteel
/it was a sad day when my school had to change from the Warchiefs to the Colts.

Perfect example. In their mind, they went from one animal to another.
 
2013-02-18 10:40:08 AM  
Incestuous Rednecks!
 
2013-02-18 10:46:13 AM  
RanDomino:
Because there's so much painful (and ongoing) history of oppression of Vikings by white people?

Do you understand the difference between "We are ferocious animals" and "They are ferocious animals"?


Were the Irish oppressed in America? No one complains about "fighting Irish" or "Paddy wagons".

FSU does not portray their Seminole mascot as an animal.
 
2013-02-18 10:47:33 AM  
Rhino_man:

Seminoles and Apache... those are debatable... but REDSKINS?  Why not just name a team "The Negroes" and see how well that plays out...

I agree.  Just because some Native American names are not offensive doesn't mean there aren't some that are
 
2013-02-18 10:51:08 AM  

Hang On Voltaire: "Paddy wagons".


a) what team uses that?
b) who the hell even uses that term?
 
2013-02-18 10:53:37 AM  

Rhino_man: pxsteel: Hang On Voltaire: LarryDan43: Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field

Hi, middle aged white guy here.  I have never understood how the Seminole, Redskins, Apaches, tomahawk chop, braves..... could be racist.  I always saw these things as symbols of strenght and bravery.  So what if a  Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and  dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field.

Isn't Imitation the sincerest form of flattery.

/it was a sad day when my school had to change from the Warchiefs to the Colts.

Seminoles and Apache... those are debatable... but REDSKINS?  Why not just name a team "The Negroes" and see how well that plays out...


Because only the overlysensitive see Redskins as a slur.  Negroes used properly is not a slur, however, if it is used improperly it is a slur.  Redskins as the name of a team or school is a symbol of strength.

You know one of the highest honors you can get is the Buffalo Soldier

Normal people don't see racism in every corner
 
2013-02-18 10:59:30 AM  
Hang On Voltaire
Were the Irish oppressed in America? No one complains about "fighting Irish" or "Paddy wagons".

The Irish have been allowed into the gated community of Whiteness. 90 years ago you could have made an argument that the Minnesota Vikings was racist because of the contemporary anti-Finn racism. These things aren't problems anymore because the referenced population has been giving all the economic and social privilege of whiteness.

FSU does not portray their Seminole mascot as an animal.

I don't know about them specifically, but it doesn't affect my point that it's no coincidence that the other major category of mascots and team names is animals.
 
2013-02-18 11:00:52 AM  

IAmRight: Hang On Voltaire: "Paddy wagons".

a) what team uses that?
b) who the hell even uses that term?


Still being used today
 
2013-02-18 11:02:35 AM  

RanDomino: I don't know about them specifically, but it doesn't affect my point that it's no coincidence that the other major category of mascots and team names is animals.


"Some schools' mascots are animals.  Therefore all schools regard their mascots' namesake as animals."
 
2013-02-18 11:02:36 AM  
pxsteel
Redskins as the name of a team or school is a symbol of strength.

Strong like a powerful, stupid animal...
 
2013-02-18 11:03:51 AM  
GoldSpider
"Some schools' mascots are animals. Therefore all schools regard their mascots' namesake as animals."

A major category of team names is animals. Look at the underlying reasoning.
 
2013-02-18 11:10:06 AM  
RanDomino:

I don't know about them specifically, but it doesn't affect my point that it's no coincidence that the other major category of mascots and team names is animals.

Also have Senators, Cavaliers, Cornhuskers, Sooners, Quakers, Trojans. Spartans, Mountaineers, Boilermakers, Midshipmen, Black Knights, Scarlet Knights, Tar Heels, Rebels, Generals.  I can keep going
 
2013-02-18 11:10:18 AM  

RanDomino: A major category of team names is animals. Look at the underlying reasoning.


I always thought a school chose a mascot as a means to self-identify with something worthy of admiration.  You seem to think it is a gesture motivated by contempt.  I can't imagine why you would think that way.
 
2013-02-18 11:14:30 AM  

RanDomino: pxsteel
Redskins as the name of a team or school is a symbol of strength.

Strong like a powerful, stupid animal...


Animals, especially those of the apex variety, are majestic, not stupid.
 
2013-02-18 11:21:31 AM  
When I was at UMass Amherst, there was a guy who went on a hunger strike because he felt the mascot, The Minuteman, was a symbol of white domination of Native Americans and African-Americans...

His name was Marvin, so everyone started calling him "Starvin' Marvin". It was pretty funny. I think it lasted a week or two before he gave up the hunger strike.

graphics.fansonly.com


However, long before ol' Marvin, the University did change the name of the bar in the Student Union from "The Hatchet and Pipe" to "The Hatch" and the sports teams used to be known as the UMass Redmen.
 
2013-02-18 11:32:37 AM  

Hang On Voltaire: Still being used today


1) in Ireland
2) in old-timey recreation
3) in an old-timey model
4) Ohio

So in the real world, no one really uses it except the Irish.
 
2013-02-18 11:38:05 AM  

IAmRight: Hang On Voltaire: Still being used today

1) in Ireland
2) in old-timey recreation
3) in an old-timey model
4) Ohio

So in the real world, no one really uses it except the Irish.


Spent five years living in Dublin and never once heard the term "Paddy Wagon". They were usually referred to as "Black Mariahs". "Paddy Wagon" is more of an American thing. Though, there's a lot of crossover these days, I suppose.


Nitpicking, of course...
 
2013-02-18 11:38:06 AM  

GoldSpider: RanDomino: A major category of team names is animals. Look at the underlying reasoning.

I always thought a school chose a mascot as a means to self-identify with something worthy of admiration.  You seem to think it is a gesture motivated by contempt.  I can't imagine why you would think that


Hmmmm... Carolina Hurricanes, San Jose Earthquakes, etc.  Yup, named because they are worthy of admiration at the way they kill thousands.
 
2013-02-18 11:41:38 AM  

IAmRight: So in the real world, no one really uses it except the Irish.


It's a relatively common nickname here in Australia. Of course, "Australia" and "Casual racism" might as well be synonymous...
 
2013-02-18 11:45:15 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: IAmRight: So in the real world, no one really uses it except the Irish.

It's a relatively common nickname here in Australia. Of course, "Australia" and "Casual racism" might as well be synonymous...


Heh... I guess so.

Didn't an Australian MP recently say that jail is good for Aboriginals because it sobers them up?
 
2013-02-18 11:46:58 AM  

keylock71: Spent five years living in Dublin and never once heard the term "Paddy Wagon".


The link provided was from a bus line in Ireland.
 
2013-02-18 11:53:02 AM  

Watubi: Hmmmm... Carolina Hurricanes, San Jose Earthquakes, etc. Yup, named because they are worthy of admiration at the way they kill thousands.


Their power is intimidating and worthy of respect, no?
 
2013-02-18 11:58:13 AM  

IAmRight: keylock71: Spent five years living in Dublin and never once heard the term "Paddy Wagon".

The link provided was from a bus line in Ireland.


Huh?

Looks like the link is to an online toy and model company based in Australia, but whatever... Like I said, never heard the term used to refer to a Police wagon in Dublin, anyway. Take it or leave it for what it's worth.
 
2013-02-18 11:59:10 AM  

Hang On Voltaire: Also have Senators, Cavaliers, Cornhuskers, Sooners, Quakers, Trojans. Spartans, Mountaineers, Boilermakers, Midshipmen, Black Knights, Scarlet Knights, Tar Heels, Rebels, Generals. I can keep going


What's interesting is several of those are pejoratives that got reappropriated by the people they were supposed to describe.

But the difference is that most of the people attending the U. of Nebraska really are cornhuskers (or their descendants) and most of the people attending the U. of Oklahoma really are the descendants of the sooners. The people attending high schools with Native American mascots usually don't have any Native American heritage that they are aware of.
 
2013-02-18 12:04:36 PM  

keylock71: Didn't an Australian MP recently say that jail is good for Aboriginals because it sobers them up?


Yeah, but honestly, it's usually not that sort of racism. It's more the "Everyone's a little bit racist" sort, ripping on the poms, yanks, kiwis... If they exist, we have a nickname for them and a whole slew of jokes at the ready. :P But. Even though we're un-PC as all hell, we're not bigots, and pustulous jackholes like that guy always get run out of politics in the end.
 
2013-02-18 12:08:55 PM  

Fluorescent Testicle: keylock71: Didn't an Australian MP recently say that jail is good for Aboriginals because it sobers them up?

Yeah, but honestly, it's usually not that sort of racism. It's more the "Everyone's a little bit racist" sort, ripping on the poms, yanks, kiwis... If they exist, we have a nickname for them and a whole slew of jokes at the ready. :P But. Even though we're un-PC as all hell, we're not bigots, and pustulous jackholes like that guy always get run out of politics in the end.


Of course, wasn't painting Australians with a large brush. Just remember reading that story not too long ago.

'Course, you are all incurable drunks and miscreants. : )
 
2013-02-18 12:10:07 PM  
"Redskins" is not offensive by itself. "Redskins", when linked with the image of a Native American, is. If you need this explained to you, maybe don't take a PR job just yet. Or HR. Or anything where you may be working with people of other ethnicities.

I've had this idea for a while. Change the name, but keep it something that starts with "red" (for "tradition's sake"), something that ties it to the area, and something that fits in the meter of "Hail to the Redskins".

I say "RedScares".
 
2013-02-18 12:10:11 PM  

keylock71: Looks like the link is to an online toy and model company based in Australia, but whatever... Like I said, never heard the term used to refer to a Police wagon in Dublin, anyway.


There are four links. I already delineated what each image is.

Though thanks for adding that the online toy/model company is from Australia. Which, as has been mentioned, is pretty well known for its casual racism. So now it's "a tour bus in Ireland, an old car for the Keystone Cops made up extra old-timey, a model for an old-time car from Australia, and a food truck from Ohio."

So that's not a real strong indicator of people actually using that phrase.
 
2013-02-18 12:10:55 PM  

keylock71: Of course, wasn't painting Australians with a large brush. Just remember reading that story not too long ago.


I know, I just wanted an excuse to call that guy a pustulous jackhole again. :P

keylock71: 'Course, you are all incurable drunks and miscreants. : )


Oh, absolutely. Why else would I be on Fark? :)
 
2013-02-18 12:13:17 PM  

IAmRight: Hang On Voltaire: Still being used today

1) in Ireland
2) in old-timey recreation
3) in an old-timey model
4) Ohio

So in the real world, no one really uses it except the Irish.


Proving that negative stereotypes for White Europeans are fine.
 
2013-02-18 12:15:29 PM  

IAmRight: So that's not a real strong indicator of people actually using that phrase.


Ah, see it now... Yeah, don't disagree.


Fluorescent Testicle: keylock71: Of course, wasn't painting Australians with a large brush. Just remember reading that story not too long ago.

I know, I just wanted an excuse to call that guy a pustulous jackhole again. :P


It's a good phrase.

keylock71: 'Course, you are all incurable drunks and miscreants. : )

Oh, absolutely. Why else would I be on Fark? :)


I'm just usually trying to avoid work... Not that I'm not a drunk and miscreant, of course.
 
2013-02-18 12:15:58 PM  

Hang On Voltaire: Proving that negative stereotypes for White Europeans are fine.


Is it really a negative stereotype that Irish people are often cops?
 
2013-02-18 12:16:12 PM  
IAmRight:


So that's not a real strong indicator of people actually using that phrase.

of course it is.  Has anyone ever on Fark wrote "hey, you know what, you are right.  I guess I just didn't really research what you are saying and just went off half cocked and shouldn't have"
 
2013-02-18 12:17:24 PM  

dinch: No mention of the Fighting Whities?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites
 
2013-02-18 12:19:45 PM  

Hang On Voltaire: of course it is.


One example in America, and that's Ohio, which barely counts. Unless you think that a replica of a 100-year-old show is current usage.
 
2013-02-18 12:21:17 PM  

IAmRight: Hang On Voltaire: Proving that negative stereotypes for White Europeans are fine.

Is it really a negative stereotype that Irish people are often cops?


Wait a minute.  You think the name Paddy Wagon derives from Irishmen being cops? Certainly a theory but likely from Irishmen being arrested for being drunk and fighting in large numbers.
 
2013-02-18 12:22:40 PM  

Hang On Voltaire: Wait a minute.  You think the name Paddy Wagon derives from Irishmen being cops? Certainly a theory but likely from Irishmen being arrested for being drunk and fighting in large numbers.


Those are the two competing theories. You're kind of assuming which one you want to assume.
 
2013-02-18 12:24:44 PM  

Krieghund: Hang On Voltaire: Also have Senators, Cavaliers, Cornhuskers, Sooners, Quakers, Trojans. Spartans, Mountaineers, Boilermakers, Midshipmen, Black Knights, Scarlet Knights, Tar Heels, Rebels, Generals. I can keep going

What's interesting is several of those are pejoratives that got reappropriated by the people they were supposed to describe.

But the difference is that most of the people attending the U. of Nebraska really are cornhuskers (or their descendants) and most of the people attending the U. of Oklahoma really are the descendants of the sooners. The people attending high schools with Native American mascots usually don't have any Native American heritage that they are aware of.


Yes, there are so many descendants of English Loyalists in Cleveland and descendants of Troy in LA.  I would wager there are more descendants of Sioux at the University of North Dakota than descendants of Sparta in Michigan.
 
2013-02-18 12:25:44 PM  
If anyone cares...
 
2013-02-18 12:26:11 PM  

RanDomino: Team names come in three flavors: Obscure local reference, ferocious or tenacious animal, ferocious or tenacious Indians. Indian team names put Native Americans on the level of animals.


heavymetal
They are the ones who gave us the term "brave" after all

"Etymology

French brave, borrowed from Italian bravo, itself either from Provençal brau ("show-off"), from Gaulish *bragos (compare Middle Irish breagha (modern breá) 'fine', Breton braga 'to strut') or from Latin *bravus, from a fusion of pravus and barbarus into a root *bravus."

Of course one thing I notice what seems to be forgotten is it was the white European Christian settlers that many on the political "right" consider as "traditional Americans", who were the "enemy" stealing the Native Americans' land and attempting a genocide of their culture and people. It is fighting them that gave Native Americans the image of being fearless warriors.

fark yeah noble savage


Hang On Voltaire
Look, nothing honors our native people Scandinavian people more than a drunken white frat boy Midwesterner dressed up like a Native American Chief Viking and dancing around blowing a huge horn on a basketball court. football field

Jorn the Younger
As a person of Nordic decent, I'm not offended by the Minessota Vikings, even though the actual mascot image is a cartoonish caricature of an actual viking warrior. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I understand that a mascot derrived from a culture can be offensive, I'm not sold on the idea that it necessarily is.

Because there's so much painful (and ongoing) history of oppression of Vikings by white people?

Do you understand the difference between "We are ferocious animals" and "They are ferocious animals"?


So do you consider Vikings to be an "obscure local reference", "ferocious or tenacious animals", or "ferocious or tenacious Indians"?  Also, my high school mascot was the Lancers, which of your three catagories would they fall into?

Do you understand the difference between "We are ferocious warriors" and "they are ferocious animals"?
 
2013-02-18 12:26:47 PM  
Whoops, meant:

If anyone cares...
 
2013-02-18 12:31:21 PM  

Dr Dreidel: "Redskins" is not offensive by itself. "Redskins", when linked with the image of a Native American, is. If you need this explained to you, maybe don't take a PR job just yet. Or HR. Or anything where you may be working with people of other ethnicities.


The only people who seem to be consistently upset by "Redskins" are non-Native Americans with a pathological guilt complex.
 
2013-02-18 12:39:19 PM  

GoldSpider: Dr Dreidel: "Redskins" is not offensive by itself. "Redskins", when linked with the image of a Native American, is. If you need this explained to you, maybe don't take a PR job just yet. Or HR. Or anything where you may be working with people of other ethnicities.

The only people who seem to be consistently upset by "Redskins" are non-Native Americans with a pathological guilt complex.


You sure?

// it ain't all Jewish kids like me
// some Native people don't care (and one leaders specifically says "We have bigger things to worry about"), but the fact that some do means we should at least strongly consider a change
// in what sense is it not insulting, though? To use a formerly-popular epithet as a team mascot/name?
 
2013-02-18 12:39:27 PM  
Vikings: specific group of people, do not exist anymore, were not native to the area (term refers to people from 1000+ years ago)
Spartans: specific group of people, do not exist anymore, were not native to the area (Sparta hasn't existed for thousands of years)
Trojans: specific group of people, do not exist anymore, were not native to the area (Troy hasn't existed for thousands of years)
Cavaliers: not really related to the group of people you're claiming them to be related to - are more likely based on the word as derived, just meaning horsemen (but if they are, then they're a specific group of people who do not exist anymore and were not native to the area - limited to the 17th century England)

Redskins: not really a respectful term for a race of people that do still exist and were forcibly displaced from the area where the team plays.

But yeah, these things are totally the same.
 
2013-02-18 12:45:45 PM  

Dracolich: Oh look, you edited out the word "coward." I guess I did offend you after all. So, tell me, why can you edit out "coward" and they can't edit out a mascot?


Aaaand favourited: Troll-pwner 7598080
 
2013-02-18 02:35:49 PM  

shotglasss: keylock71: shotglasss: Shouldn't we just leave this fake debate about Indians to a fake Indian like Elezabeth Warren?

It makes me smile that you clods still have chafed asses over this...

And that's Senator Elizabeth Warren to you, clod.

I like your butthurt over the way I pointed out what a liar she is.


Didn't she never mention it until Republicans literally made up that she'd maybe used it on an application once, my brother Fred who's in Canada totally swears so?

Yup. What a liar.
 
2013-02-18 05:38:36 PM  
Hang On Voltaire
Also have Senators, Cavaliers, Cornhuskers, Sooners, Quakers, Trojans. Spartans, Mountaineers, Boilermakers, Midshipmen, Black Knights, Scarlet Knights, Tar Heels, Rebels, Generals. I can keep going

Great, so there are plenty of options for these schools, without having to rely on ones that dehumanize people who were recently (and in some ways still are) subject to a lengthy and brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing by the people naming things after them out of 'admiration'.


Hang On Voltaire
Yes, there are so many descendants of English Loyalists in Cleveland and descendants of Troy in LA.

How many campaigns of ethnic cleansing have Americans carried out against the ancient Trojans? How have English Loyalists been oppressed in living memory? Does anyone still identify with them today?

I would wager there are more descendants of Sioux at the University of North Dakota than descendants of Sparta in Michigan.

Did they pick the name?


GoldSpider
I always thought a school chose a mascot as a means to self-identify with something worthy of admiration. You seem to think it is a gesture motivated by contempt. I can't imagine why you would think that way.

Yes, something worthy of admiration.


pxsteel
Animals, especially those of the apex variety, are majestic, not stupid.

The majestic Redman, loping about on the open prairie.


Jorn the Younger
So do you consider Vikings to be an "obscure local reference", "ferocious or tenacious animals", or "ferocious or tenacious Indians"?

Obscure local reference.

Also, my high school mascot was the Lancers, which of your three catagories would they fall into?

Okay, some are totally generic. Groups or people from mythology or distant history probably should be included in a larger second category with 'animals'.

Which reminds me of another point against Indian mascot names- The Vikings don't still exist. Lancers don't still exist. Indians very much do still exist. But if they're lumped in with mythology or distant history then it's implied that they're something in the past.
 
2013-02-18 10:41:25 PM  

RanDomino: Hang On Voltaire
Also have Senators, Cavaliers, Cornhuskers, Sooners, Quakers, Trojans. Spartans, Mountaineers, Boilermakers, Midshipmen, Black Knights, Scarlet Knights, Tar Heels, Rebels, Generals. I can keep going

Great, so there are plenty of options for these schools, without having to rely on ones that dehumanize people who were recently (and in some ways still are) subject to a lengthy and brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing by the people naming things after them out of 'admiration'.


Hang On Voltaire
Yes, there are so many descendants of English Loyalists in Cleveland and descendants of Troy in LA.

How many campaigns of ethnic cleansing have Americans carried out against the ancient Trojans? How have English Loyalists been oppressed in living memory? Does anyone still identify with them today?

I would wager there are more descendants of Sioux at the University of North Dakota than descendants of Sparta in Michigan.

Did they pick the name?


GoldSpider
I always thought a school chose a mascot as a means to self-identify with something worthy of admiration. You seem to think it is a gesture motivated by contempt. I can't imagine why you would think that way.

Yes, something worthy of admiration.


pxsteel
Animals, especially those of the apex variety, are majestic, not stupid.

The majestic Redman, loping about on the open prairie.


Jorn the Younger
So do you consider Vikings to be an "obscure local reference", "ferocious or tenacious animals", or "ferocious or tenacious Indians"?

Obscure local reference.

Also, my high school mascot was the Lancers, which of your three catagories would they fall into?

Okay, some are totally generic. Groups or people from mythology or distant history probably should be included in a larger second category with 'animals'.


Y'know, for someone who's so concerned about people being demeaned by being lumped in groups with animals, you sure do seem to be lumping lots of people in with animals.

It's pretty easy to read additional inflection into something someone else wrote when you're looking to get offended, like you did when you bolded "thing" in the word "something".

I'm not making the argument that no mascots are offensive- I think Redskins is offensive, in the same way Chinks or Wetbacks would be offensive, I'm just not convinced that every single mascot based on Native American culture is offensive.  I'd actually wager that most of the schools and whatnot who have these team mascots would argue that they're "obscure local reference" mascots, just like you said Vikings is, inspired by the local history of the area.

/I like teams named for intangible concepts, personally.  I usually call my FF team "The Aftermath"
 
2013-02-18 11:23:24 PM  
Native American nicknames are offensive..fine I guess. We do live in a PC world which makes me ill at times.  If the people of that Native American nation have no problem with it, I don't see it as a big deal. Here in Utah, the Ute nation supports the use of the name for the U of Utah. Why is it that only Native American names are offensive? Fighting Irish? that's not a stereotype? Why can Holy Cross still use the Crusaders? Because killing Muslims is ok?
 
2013-02-19 12:29:30 AM  

yeah_so: Native American nicknames are offensive..fine I guess. We do live in a PC world which makes me ill at times.


Relevant quote from a few days back:

Neil Gaiman:  I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase "In these days of political correctness..." talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, "That's not actually anything to do with 'political correctness'. That's just treating other people with respect."

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase "politically correct" wherever we could with "treating other people with respect", and it made me smile.
You should try it. It's peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you're thinking now. You're thinking "Oh my god, that's treating other people with respect gone mad!"


Source
 
2013-02-19 12:33:53 AM  
Jorn the Younger
I'm just not convinced that every single mascot based on Native American culture is offensive.

In Wisconsin, there's a review board that only looks at a mascot if someone complains, which seems like a better solution than just banning them flat-out, sure. Especially since it can be ambiguous, like if there's no imagery and the name isn't explicit.

/I like teams named for intangible concepts, personally. I usually call my FF team "The Aftermath"

That's a pretty awesome name.


yeah_so
Why can Holy Cross still use the Crusaders? Because killing Muslims is ok?

Is it a private school?
 
2013-02-19 12:46:35 AM  
Did everyone miss the part where the local and/or referenced tribes would have to be OK with it? Or was that gigantic detail completely overlooked for the opportunity to do some totally awesome self-righteous chest thumping?
 
2013-02-19 05:17:50 AM  
Oregon Republicans are a very special breed of... special.

They make Oregon's shiatty Democrats winners time and time again.

/Oregon used to have GREAT Republicans...
//*sigh*
 
2013-02-19 05:20:01 AM  
And I mean, Allen Alley is not bad in my book, but the party basically puts him in a stranglehold.

Basically, Oregon's Republican status-quo could have written the book on teabagging, except for the fact that they like coffee and beer a lot more.
 
2013-02-20 04:23:41 AM  

RanDomino: The Irish have been allowed into the gated community of Whiteness. 90 years ago you could have made an argument that the Minnesota Vikings was racist because of the contemporary anti-Finn racism. These things aren't problems anymore because the referenced population has been giving all the economic and social privilege of whiteness.


Finns weren't vikings.
 
2013-02-20 06:49:11 AM  
mlkshk.com
/Native American
//Independent
 
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