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(The New York Times)   Former colleague of Dr. George Tiller set to reopen his shuttered abortion clinic to keep the terrorists from winning   (nytimes.com) divider line 143
    More: Hero, Dr. George R. Tiller, abortion clinic, Kansans for Life, abortions, infanticides, Sam Brownback, development director  
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4764 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2013 at 3:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-17 10:00:00 PM
20 votes:
"In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director forKansans for Life, later adding, "We don't want to be known as a community where you go to get your babies killed."

You'd prefer to be known as a community where doctors are killed for providing legal, often life-saving medical procedures.
2013-02-17 11:46:54 PM
11 votes:
Hero Tag?

Damn straight!

Keep on fighting the good fight.

So-called Pro Life groups are ignorant zealots who leave a path of death and unnecessary misery in their wake.
2013-02-18 12:12:51 AM
9 votes:
Good and good luck to them. These anti-women assholes would have preferred to see several of my friends die over terminating their pregnancies. Some were ectopic and some were late term, but all were wanted. That these anti-women assholes could even think that this is some kind of easy choice should make them eligible for a punch the crotch.
2013-02-17 09:40:28 PM
9 votes:
FTFA:Abortion opponents have vowed to keep it closed. Already, they have filed complaints with the city accusing Ms. Burkhart of renovating the clinic without proper permits. They have collected around 14,000 signatures in opposition to her plan. They have asked Wichita officials to change zoning rules to prohibit the clinic from operating in its current location. They have prayed.

I bet these people prayed for Obama to not get re-elected. I'm sure they are prayed for someone other then Mitt in the primaries. How is that whole prayer thing working out for you?

either:
A) the prayers they do nothing
B) God hates you
2013-02-18 04:27:02 AM
8 votes:

RabidJade: The justifications for abortions from the left are so cute. The rhetoric from both sides just sounds like a bunch of kids arguing about something where they got their facts from "friends of friends" or the Internet.

//don't care either way
//but the arguments bring out misguided, misleading, and unproven talking points too much


you're my favorite kind of poster. You walk in and condemn everyone(but one side just a little bit more than the other), claim that everyones arguments are all wrong yet give no specifics on what is wrong and why, but then state no of it matter because you don't even care in the first place but decided to post because....something. You're the internest version of the guy who knows nothing of the topic, yet feels the need to jump into the middle of the conversation he wasn't a part of.

congratulations donny.
2013-02-18 12:11:12 AM
8 votes:
I live in Wichita and I've lived here most of my life. I remember the "Summer of Mercy" in '92 and I remember Dr. Tiller being shot in the mid-nineties and I remember Dr. Tiller being assassinated in his church in 2009.

The reopening of this clinic is good news for those of us who would hated to have seen the Christian terrorists win.

I guarantee you that if another doctor who provides abortions in Wichita is murdered, the aftermath will play out very differently than it did in 2009. We were shocked in 2009. This time, we will be prepared.
2013-02-17 11:52:27 PM
8 votes:
Good. Those farking Christian anti-choice anti-American dickwads can die in fires. They are the worst human beings I have ever witnessed. Yes I've paid for an abortion, and yes, I've had those farkheads scream at me and my girl when we did nothing more than go to a goddamned doctor's office in Birmingham, Alabama.

At least I consider myself lucky. Those assholes firebombed the place a few weeks later.
2013-02-17 10:32:52 PM
8 votes:
Remember if it's Muslims doing the killing it's "terrorism" but if it's Christians doing the killing it's "patriotism".
2013-02-17 09:36:09 PM
8 votes:
Oh my god.
I'd like to help pay for protective detail.
2013-02-18 03:49:25 AM
7 votes:
Ms. Burkhart was a colleague and close friend of Dr. George R. Tiller, the clinic's proprietor, who was fatally shot in church...

Gotta love those Christian sensibilities... Remember, these are the people who think they are superior enough to tell the rest of us how to live.
2013-02-18 06:12:45 AM
5 votes:
If religious people could think things out they wouldn't be religious.

Professional abortionists prevent injury from coat hangers that could result in death or infertility. Unless you want to ban wire hangers it's better for all to have professionals in this world.

You can't eliminate something there is demand for. The best you can do is to provide alternatives that minimize demand.

The best alts I can think of to minimize abortions:
1) Sex Ed that focuses on contraception (and plenty of "if you don't wrap it your junk will rot" FUD imagery)
2) High quality adoption services that include premium obstetric coverage
3)  Mother friendly workplaces. Heck, we need mother friendly colleges, with more campus childcare facilities. Too often motherhood is the end of professional development or higher education.

It is immoral to oppose abortion in a knee jerk manner. Actually, it's an asshole lifestyle to oppose abortion and not work to provide what you would find to be better options. But the better options might require work, and work is bad if you aren't getting paid. Well, maybe you farking Christians need to tithe a part of your LIFE to make things better (from your point of view).

/I'm all in favor of more abortions.
//All around the world.
///And free condoms everywhere.
2013-02-18 04:00:47 AM
5 votes:
The bill also included provisions prohibiting abortion providers from receiving tax credits, requiring doctors to warn women that abortion increases the risk of breast cancer (a theory widely disputed in medical circles)...

It's not "widely disputed", it's total bullshiat. It is a 100% twisting of the facts, and taking actual research results out of context. The actual evidence shows that women who carry a baby to term have a lower chance for breast cancer, due to the whole developing breast milk thing. The only way this "increases" the risk is because they don't get the decrease from the breast milk developing. Totally NOT the same thing at all. If you've got to lie to prove your point, maybe you need to re-think your point in the first place.

I wouldn't be anywhere near as pissed at these people if they weren't the very ones who fight to keep the mothers whom they want to force to have the babies from getting a penny of assistance once the baby is born. That whole "Christian Charity" thing doesn't really extend that far after all./
2013-02-17 10:07:51 PM
5 votes:
Fark Kansas.
2013-02-18 09:58:37 AM
4 votes:

lordaction: These people are killing babies that can survive outside of the womb.


Hi.  14-week old fetuses tend to die outside the womb.  And by "tend to", I mean "always".

In fact, when you actually get to the "snowball's chance in hell" area of chance of extra-uterine survival, it's over a month later.

Your proposition is deformed.  Kindly abort it.
2013-02-18 09:32:51 AM
4 votes:

Realist29: Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

Still trying to figure out where people are getting the idea that a 14-week-old fetus has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving outside the womb...
2013-02-18 08:42:18 AM
4 votes:

SkunkWerks: When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.


I don't even get how Christians arrived at the point where they consider fetuses to have a soul. The Bible is pretty clear that your soul enters you through the breath of life. Until you start breathing, you're just dust. Even under the most radical interpretation of the Bible, a zygote isn't a person.
2013-02-18 07:37:54 AM
4 votes:
Those who are supposedly 'pro life' also tend to be the type that support the death penalty and also have a hard-on for war, Also, note most of them are MEN, who don't have a uterus anyway.

It's all about control of women's sexuality and zero to do with compassion for unborn.  Oh, and getting brownie points for the afterlife from their imaginary sky-wizard is in there, too.
2013-02-18 04:26:00 AM
4 votes:

RabidJade: //don't care either way


Now why don't I believe that...

RabidJade: The justifications for abortions from the left are so cute.


... Ah, that's why.
2013-02-18 04:21:10 AM
4 votes:

RabidJade: The justifications for abortions from the left are so cute.


You sound.....stupid...
2013-02-18 04:12:21 AM
4 votes:
Mr. Gittrich told the City Council that the clinic would create a nuisance for the neighborhood because of the protests it would attract. The planning commission is scheduled to meet this month to consider Mr. Gittrich's request to rezone the area to prohibit the clinic from opening.

Or, you could meet this month to consider NOT ALLOWING THE PROTESTS. It's easy--limit the amount of municipal property around the clinic, since legally they can't protest on the clinic's property, and if they choose to protest on someone else's property, the police can remove them as well. Have NO municipal property around the clinic, and the protesters will have to go elsewhere to be douchebags.
2013-02-18 03:50:46 AM
4 votes:

ksdanj: I guarantee you that if another doctor who provides abortions in Wichita is murdered, the aftermath will play out very differently than it did in 2009. We were shocked in 2009. This time, we will be prepared.


Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism in regards to the aftermath. Nowadays, the murderer is far more likely to be nationally deified by the theofascists of the right wing and given a job on Fox News (sadly, that's not sarcasm). Seriously, America has gone bug-fark insane within the past few years.

propasaurus: ...and he'll make sure to go into every

pro-Democrat or pro-liberal Politics tab thread to say so.

/FTFY.
//But I'm sure it's just coincidence that he's never told a pro-Republican thread to "Stop being political and go back to Free Republic."
///He might have showed promise for a while, but now he's nothing but another tiresome threadshiatter.
2013-02-18 03:37:20 AM
4 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: If you truly believe that abortion is murder, then abortionists are mass murders. If you believe that you can save the lives of hundreds by killing one murderer, isn't an act of patriotic duty to kill that person and accept the consequences as a form of civil disobedience?

As long as people believe that the child in the womb is worth more than a mass of cells, you will have people willing to step in where the law refuses to step in.


But that's an absurd position.

When you're baking bread you put dough in the oven. That dough isn't bread, it's dough, and it will be nothing but uncooked dough up to the second that you finish baking and take it out of the oven.
2013-02-18 12:25:10 AM
4 votes:

ksdanj: I live in Wichita and I've lived here most of my life. I remember the "Summer of Mercy" in '92 and I remember Dr. Tiller being shot in the mid-nineties and I remember Dr. Tiller being assassinated in his church in 2009.

The reopening of this clinic is good news for those of us who would hated to have seen the Christian terrorists win.

I guarantee you that if another doctor who provides abortions in Wichita is murdered, the aftermath will play out very differently than it did in 2009. We were shocked in 2009. This time, we will be prepared.


What the fark is wrong with your state?

I'm sorry but between the WBC and this shiat it's hard to not think of everyone in that state as a backwards hick.
2013-02-17 11:22:18 PM
4 votes:

ksdanj: zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?

This clinic will not be performing any abortions for women who are more than 14 weeks pregnant.


I know, I was thinking of Tiller. Preventing late term abortions puts more lives in danger assuming it's a matter of the mother's life. I guess the anti-choice crowd see it as a 2 for 1 special for god
2013-02-19 12:40:25 AM
3 votes:
"In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director for Kansans for Life, later adding, "We don't want to be known as a community where you go to get your babies killed."

No, they'd rather be known as the community where anyone who is unbeliever of their little inbred whites-only death cult is killed, instead.

www.rainfallsite.com
2013-02-18 08:29:13 PM
3 votes:

purplegiraffe: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: SkunkWerks: When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.

I don't even get how Christians arrived at the point where they consider fetuses to have a soul. The Bible is pretty clear that your soul enters you through the breath of life. Until you start breathing, you're just dust. Even under the most radical interpretation of the Bible, a zygote isn't a person.

Umm..... Have you read the thing?   "I praise you beause I am ferafully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.  My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place.  When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, yoru eyes saw my unformed body.  All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." I believe an unformed body is a pretty good definition for a zygote!



Fair enough.

Find me a zygote  woven together in the depths of the earth, then, and I'll promise not to abort it.
2013-02-18 05:07:36 PM
3 votes:

IlGreven: PsiChick: In reality, they're going to need a full security team. Armed guards, evacuation plans...the whole nine yards. Because apparently here in America, we value the law of the land and the rights of women so little that we're willing to kill doctors over it, and probably patients.

If it saves just one unborn fetus, killing a dozen people in an abortion-clinic bombing is worth it.

/Oh, and two or three fetuses that were saved from abortion, but sadly died with the mother in the blast.


I wish I could take those people back in time and force them to sit at the bedside of a woman dying because she can't have an abortion. Or, hell, take them to someplace where that's probably happening today.
2013-02-18 03:01:15 PM
3 votes:

iheartscotch: I've always thought it was ironic that the biggest supporters of abortion are also the biggest supporters of gun control.


I've always thought it was ironic that the biggest opponents of abortion are also the biggest opponents of welfare.

And by "ironic" I of course mean that I too just pulled that out of my hinder.

/just sayin' times two.
2013-02-18 07:49:48 AM
3 votes:

shotglasss: There is no case where an abortion saves a woman's life when a C section that doesn't murder a human wouldn't accomplish the same thing.


25.media.tumblr.com
2013-02-18 07:41:18 AM
3 votes:
dforkus: Places like Germany, where abortion is not only legal, but 100 percent paid for by the government have 1/3 of the number of abortions per capita than we do.

1) Have realistic sex education
2) Have access to birth control
3) Treat everybody like they actually matter

It's amazing what happens

BTW: Places like Zimbabwe and the Phillipenes, where abortion is criminalized, actually have higher abortion rates than we do.


Same deal here in Canada. Completely covered under out healthcare system and we have a lower rate of abortion than the US. 47,000 women died from complications due to unsafe abortion globally in 2005 and many more became sterile of seriously ill. This is what the "Pro-Life" (aka forced birther) agenda leads to.

[donotwant]
2013-02-18 07:06:46 AM
3 votes:

wildcardjack: If religious people could think things out they wouldn't be religious.

Professional abortionists prevent injury from coat hangers that could result in death or infertility. Unless you want to ban wire hangers it's better for all to have professionals in this world.

You can't eliminate something there is demand for. The best you can do is to provide alternatives that minimize demand.

The best alts I can think of to minimize abortions:
1) Sex Ed that focuses on contraception (and plenty of "if you don't wrap it your junk will rot" FUD imagery)
2) High quality adoption services that include premium obstetric coverage
3)  Mother friendly workplaces. Heck, we need mother friendly colleges, with more campus childcare facilities. Too often motherhood is the end of professional development or higher education.

It is immoral to oppose abortion in a knee jerk manner. Actually, it's an asshole lifestyle to oppose abortion and not work to provide what you would find to be better options. But the better options might require work, and work is bad if you aren't getting paid. Well, maybe you farking Christians need to tithe a part of your LIFE to make things better (from your point of view).

/I'm all in favor of more abortions.
//All around the world.
///And free condoms everywhere.


So much this. But any time I bring any of these points up, I'm met with the cries of "Socialism!" I have my own issues with abortion, but just because I don't plan on ever having one doesn't mean I need to go about shaming another human being who feels they need one. What was that quote, don't judge until you walk a mile, something something...

More contraceptives, more sex education, more resources.

/Christian
//Love the slashies.
2013-02-18 06:21:47 AM
3 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fetuses aren't life. Life begins at birth. It's magic.


No, life began 3.6 billion years ago. It just continues thanks to that hot, hot lovin'.
2013-02-18 05:58:13 AM
3 votes:

Green Scorpio: Mikey1969: Green Scorpio: He should open a gun store.Then he could be responsible for even more deaths.

It's a farking SHE, people, TRY to RTFA for once!!

Didn't mean to piss in your cheerios, Mikey.
I didn't RTFA because i DGAF


But you GAF enough to come in and post. What a weird hobby, posting messages in a board referring to a story that you DGAF about. Even porn addiction seems more productive. Hell, making a rubber-band ball makes more sense.
2013-02-18 03:53:01 AM
3 votes:

DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.


Man, you really are an evil farking asshole, aren't you?
2013-02-18 03:44:58 AM
3 votes:
Fetuses are parasites. Everything they do fits the description of the perfect parasite. Now, I don't know about you, but when I get a lamprey sit down on me, I pull the sucker off! Removing parasites is the intelligent thing to do.

www.itsallaboutfish.co.uk
2013-02-18 01:10:43 AM
3 votes:

namatad: we really need to step up the pro-abortion protesting.
might be good exercise too.

drive over to a clinic
take a TON of photos of the nice protesters
go walk with them and get their names and put trackers on their cars
follow them home and protest some more ...
first amendment right?

god I hate these people more than bush and cheney


resorting to Scientology like tactics seems ass backwards.

If they are violent or move beyond the means afforded to them by the 1st amendment then public shamming is all good. Upload that to Youtube and get them exposed for it.

If you have proof of their hypocrisy exposure is fine

Shamming will not work with zealots since they believe in their cause, you will just make them a leaving martyr
2013-02-17 10:43:50 PM
3 votes:
Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?
2013-02-17 10:08:21 PM
3 votes:

ThunderPelvis: "In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director forKansans for Life, later adding, "We don't want to be known as a community where you go to get your babies killed."

You'd prefer to be known as a community where doctors are killed for providing legal, often life-saving medical procedures.


Yeah, pretty much that.

"Oh we don't want people to think that we allow globs of snot to die here!  We would much rather people think that we execute medical professionals.  That's a lot better!"
2013-02-19 01:22:09 PM
2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: radarlove: The My Little Pony Killer: radarlove: Satanism has become the dominant religion in this country.

You have no idea what Satanism actually is.

Ooh, spooky- do tell.

It's an absense of God.  That's it.  No devil, no naked rituals under the moonlight, just Christianity minus the drama-queen at the center of it.


Precisely.  Satanism, and I am speaking of LaVeyan Satanism here, not Luciferianism, is at its core The Religion of The Self.  The Self reigns supreme to the Satanist.  It is literally and proudly the religion of selfishness.

Now I ask you- who is more selfish than the Dominionist and/or Fundamentalist right-wing Christian?

Feed the poor?  Not with MY money.
Provide welfare and medical care to the needy?  Keep MY taxes out of it.
Care for our wounded soldiers?  What have they done for ME?
Society helped build your business?  No, I built it by MYSELF, with help from nobody.
Pay a fair wage to your workers? Then what about MY bonuses?
Regulate firearms? Keep your stinking paws off MY damn dirty AR-15.
Let a woman get a life-saving abortion? Not while I'M around!
Why even bother going to church on Sundays?  Because I don't want to miss MY shot at heaven, and MY wife had damn well better come with ME because the Kingdom of Heaven is ALL MINE, GODDAMNIT!  I am THE MASTER!  I have DOMINION OVER ALL I SURVEY!

MY family.  MY God.  MY views and opinions.  All reign superior over yours.  Me, me, me.  Modern-day Christianity- the True Religion of the Self.  These people don't believe in God, they believe in themselves and themselves alone.  If they believed in any sort of loving God they'd actually be out there on the streets helping people out, giving of themselves, and living as they were commanded to in a spirit of love and grace to all, without thought of reward or punishment or The Self.  Instead they spew hate, revel in anger, and sow discord wherever they go.  They've become, in the name of their God, everything they swore to stand against, and they did all of this because they are Self-ish.

They are LaVeyan Satanists, they simply do not realize it or are unwilling to confront that truth.

That being said, I only made that post because each of the first letters spells out "last post."
2013-02-19 11:46:00 AM
2 votes:
If "pro lifers" want the fetus, give it to them.

It's not to government's place to tell a woman she has to allow something to grow inside her against her will, whether it's a fetus or potatoes.

Take the fetus out, give to whoever wants it.

And when a man becomes pregnant his opinion will be more relevant.
2013-02-19 12:37:00 AM
2 votes:

radarlove: Satanism has become the dominant religion in this country.


You have no idea what Satanism actually is.
2013-02-19 12:11:38 AM
2 votes:

Biological Ali: DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.

I wonder... is "Don't post hate speech" an actual rule here, or just a polite suggestion? I guess I'll find out in the morning, depending on whether this post is still around.


It would appear that I was correct. shocking huh?
2013-02-18 09:01:34 PM
2 votes:

FloydA: purplegiraffe: FloydA: purplegiraffe: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: SkunkWerks: When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.

I don't even get how Christians arrived at the point where they consider fetuses to have a soul. The Bible is pretty clear that your soul enters you through the breath of life. Until you start breathing, you're just dust. Even under the most radical interpretation of the Bible, a zygote isn't a person.

Umm..... Have you read the thing?   "I praise you beause I am ferafully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.  My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place.  When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, yoru eyes saw my unformed body.  All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." I believe an unformed body is a pretty good definition for a zygote!

I'm having a hard time thinking of my mom's "secret place" as "the depths of the earth."
It could be that we're dealing with a metaphor here.

Golly, ya think? But my point was more in answer to what Sudo said about the breath of life and someone's radical interpretation of the Bible. Perhaps you/(s)he believe that 'all the days ordained' for the aforementioned zygote are only for those select zygotes who make it out safely? I'm just saying of you are going to argue BIBLE you should know all the stuff that's in there.


Your quote does not make the point that you think it makes.  The quote does not suggest that the "unformed body" is alive; you are bringing that interpretation to the quote, rather than deriving it from the quote.  Nothing in the quote suggests that the "ordained days" start before parturition.

Now if you already believe that life starts at some time prior to the first breath, there are certainly passages in the Bible that you can use ...


People can always, ALWAYS find some verse in the Bible that seems to support ANY point of view they like.
2013-02-18 08:24:06 PM
2 votes:

cs30109: zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?

No.  Abortions are legal up until the moment of birth in the U.S., as long as some doctor is willing to do it.  A doctor will always be able to find a reason to justify any abortion they want to perform---for the mother's "mental health," for instance.


For those keeping score, this is not the first time cs30109 has been, shall we say, creative with the facts.  This is the third thread I've personally caught him posting a statement that could be easily disproven with a quick Google search.

He's a very, ah, creative person, and you might want to keep that in mind going forward.
2013-02-18 02:50:18 PM
2 votes:
Look, I'm a Christian, in that I follow that actual teachings of Yeshua.
Abortion, on a personal level, is wrong to my wife and I.
Should we be allowed to force our opinions on a suffering pregnant woman?
The fact of the matter is that Yeshua commanded us to be compassionate to all.
People who shame mothers going through a difficult time are violating their Christian ethos.
Obviously when you act out of hate, anger, and fear, you are not acting on behalf of Christ.
Satanism has become the dominant religion in this country.
Though it usually gets called Christianity.
2013-02-18 01:52:41 PM
2 votes:

cs30109: zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?

No.   Abortions are legal up until the moment of birth in the U.S., as long as some doctor is willing to do it.  A doctor will always be able to find a reason to justify any abortion they want to perform---for the mother's "mental health," for instance.


except that is a complete and total lie and you are either ignorant, a troll or both.

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), is a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court on the issue of abortion. Decided simultaneously with a companion case, Doe v. Bolton, the Court ruled 7-2 that a right to privacy under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion, but that right must be balanced against the state's two legitimate interests in regulating abortions: protecting prenatal life and protecting women's health. Arguing that these state interests became stronger over the course of a pregnancy, the Court resolved this balancing test by tying state regulation of abortion to the trimester of pregnancy.

The Court later rejected Roe's trimester framework, while affirming Roe's central holding that a person has a right to abortion until viability.[1] The Roe decision defined "viable" as being "potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid", adding that viability "is usually placed at about seven months (28 weeks) but may occur earlier, even at 24 weeks."[2]

The definition of viability continues to be moved earlier and earlier in the pregnancy.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/US_abortion_by_ges t ational_age_2004_histogram.svg

the great majority of abortions are before 12 weeks. a much smaller percentage happen before the end of 20 weeks. a tiny number happen later than that. (~1.5%)

so no, abortions are not legal up to the moment of birth. Abortions that late are only allowed in a small number of extreme case. Dying mother, extreme mutations, never because the mom changed her mind.

but go ahead and continue being an ignorant troll
2013-02-18 10:18:30 AM
2 votes:

Realist29: While I am pro-choice - I'm glad my mom didn't have to go to some cave-like clinic in the middle of Kansas to have my skull cracked open, brain scrambled and then dissect my body to remove me from her fetus because she felt - it wasn't time yet. Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.


If you're pro-choice, I'm a nine-legged spider with three kinky supermodel girlfriends.
2013-02-18 09:50:03 AM
2 votes:

Realist29: While I am pro-choice - I'm glad my mom didn't have to go to some cave-like clinic in the middle of Kansas to have my skull cracked open, brain scrambled and then dissect my body to remove me from her fetus because she felt - it wasn't time yet. Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.


I remember hearing a story from one of Tiller's patients: her fetus was in its third term and discovered to be horribly deformed. It suffered some bizarre genetic defect that would've meant it would be born, live in agonizing pain for about a day, and then die. So she did the merciful thing.

If it's not threatening to the mother's life, that doesn't mean it's frivolous.
2013-02-18 09:34:59 AM
2 votes:

SkunkWerks: Realist29: Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

Still trying to figure out where people are getting the idea that a 14-week-old fetus has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving outside the womb...


It suits their narrative.
2013-02-18 09:10:42 AM
2 votes:
Well this got disgusting in a hurry.
2013-02-18 08:43:45 AM
2 votes:

shotglasss: ThunderPelvis: "In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director forKansans for Life, later adding, "We don't want to be known as a community where you go to get your babies killed."

You'd prefer to be known as a community where doctors are killed for providing legal, often life-saving medical procedures.

Anyone who kills an abortionist is a hero to real Americans. There is no case where an abortion saves a woman's life when a C section that doesn't murder a human wouldn't accomplish the same thing.




I've saved your post supporting domestic terror for future use. Thank you.
2013-02-18 08:27:13 AM
2 votes:

wildcardjack: If religious people could think things out they wouldn't be religious.

Professional abortionists prevent injury from coat hangers that could result in death or infertility. Unless you want to ban wire hangers it's better for all to have professionals in this world.

You can't eliminate something there is demand for. The best you can do is to provide alternatives that minimize demand.

The best alts I can think of to minimize abortions:
1) Sex Ed that focuses on contraception (and plenty of "if you don't wrap it your junk will rot" FUD imagery)
2) High quality adoption services that include premium obstetric coverage
3)  Mother friendly workplaces. Heck, we need mother friendly colleges, with more campus childcare facilities. Too often motherhood is the end of professional development or higher education.

It is immoral to oppose abortion in a knee jerk manner. Actually, it's an asshole lifestyle to oppose abortion and not work to provide what you would find to be better options. But the better options might require work, and work is bad if you aren't getting paid. Well, maybe you farking Christians need to tithe a part of your LIFE to make things better (from your point of view).

/I'm all in favor of more abortions.
//All around the world.
///And free condoms everywhere.


You're totally right. I read something awhile ago from another Farker and the gist was that a woman will not carry a child if she doesn't want to.  Coat hanger, illegal practices, whatever.  If she is dead set against carrying, she won't.   It's better to have the appropriate care for those women to have safe procedures.
2013-02-18 08:19:33 AM
2 votes:
Good Luck to them. What do the women of Kansas do currently for ectopic pregnancies and life-threatening late term problems? Do they let them die like that woman in Ireland did recently?
2013-02-18 07:03:24 AM
2 votes:
Places like Germany, where abortion is not only legal, but 100 percent paid for by the government have 1/3 of the number of abortions per capita than we do.

1) Have realistic sex education
2) Have access to birth control
3) Treat everybody like they actually matter

It's amazing what happens

BTW: Places like Zimbabwe and the Phillipenes, where abortion is criminalized, actually have higher abortion rates than we do.
2013-02-18 06:58:59 AM
2 votes:

log_jammin: define "real American"


www.fallonandrosof.com
2013-02-18 06:42:29 AM
2 votes:

DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.


Don't be a hateful ass. Gunning someone down isn't exactly pro-life.
2013-02-18 06:06:58 AM
2 votes:
"In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director forKansans for Life,

And Al Qaeda and other Muslim terrorists, in reality, would like the entire West to either disappear or convert to Islam.  And they use similar means to achieve their goal.  And it works no more with them than it does how your boy Roeder did it.
2013-02-18 04:39:48 AM
2 votes:

Green Scorpio: He should open a gun store.Then he could be responsible for even more deaths.


It's a farking SHE, people, TRY to RTFA for once!!
2013-02-18 04:17:43 AM
2 votes:

Biological Ali: is "Don't post hate speech" an actual rule here, or just a polite suggestion?


as usual, it depends on who says it. My guess is it will just be a suggestion in this case.
2013-02-18 04:07:03 AM
2 votes:

mikaloyd: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: mikaloyd: Death to all fetusses!

Have you ever taken a roll out of the oven and found it a little too soft when you bit into it? Then you're basically no different than an abortion doctor.

I am a hero too?

I shall never eat fully cooked bread again!


Look, I get that you guys are trying to troll this thread, but damn, at least aim for some minimum level of coherence. I mean, who's even going to bother trying to decipher this gibberish?
2013-02-18 04:02:47 AM
2 votes:

mikaloyd: James F. Campbell: DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.

Man, you really are an evil farking asshole, aren't you?

That dude could take all the fun out of abortions.


However, DrPainMD, it's a 'she.' So I guess you can fark the corpse afterwards.
2013-02-18 03:37:26 AM
2 votes:
I'm kind of amused (in a sickened way) that the protestors are trying to get the clinic rezoned out of existence by arguing that it will create a public nuisance because of the loud protests they'll be staging outside.

"If you let this happen we'll be loud and annoying outside it, so you shouldn't get it happen so we don't bother people"

Well gee, y'ever try just not being loud and annoying outside a clinic?
2013-02-18 02:13:50 AM
2 votes:
That Troy Newman fellow who's using the "Operation Rescue" name, and who's quoted in the article is quite the character. He's got ties to the Army of God domestic terrorist group, and his version of Operation Rescue broke away from the original organization because they disagreed with the original group condemning the use of force. Oh yeah, and he had at least a certain level of association with Scott Roeder, which you'd think the NY Times would have mentioned what with this being a story about reopening Tiller's clinic and all.
2013-02-18 01:48:26 AM
2 votes:
I wish I owned a store that sold cardboard and Sharpies near there. Add in a "Spelling Consultation Fee" and it's time to start shopping for islands.
2013-02-18 01:13:23 AM
2 votes:

namatad: god I hate these people more than bush and cheney



How much do Bush and Cheney hate these people?
2013-02-18 12:33:50 AM
2 votes:
Fight murder with murder, I always say.
2013-02-18 12:23:26 AM
2 votes:

cman: 1. This is awesome
2. Please bring the liberal circle jerk back to Kos


I don't think this is a 'liberal' or 'conservative' issue. It's about Jesus freaks who mostly constitute the protesting and shooting crowd. Like it or not, abortion is a right decreed by the highest authority in the land. That most of them are [Tea]publicans is just how it is.

/fetuses aren't red or blue...it's a personal choice now feircely made political
//Kos does suck, I'll give you that
2013-02-17 11:54:49 PM
2 votes:
hey guess what assholes? I paid to have my kid aborted nearly 20 years ago, and that's the best damn money I ever spent! A+++ would do again
2013-02-17 10:09:31 PM
2 votes:
Less than a month before Christians firebomb it.
2013-02-19 08:33:41 PM
1 votes:
One of the other survivors of that office practices on the block across from me*.  Some things about the group tracking him ("pray to end abortion"):

he gets death threats... big surprise there.
his landlord gets death threats
his landlord's kids get death threats (bless your children going to Northwestern High School at 7:30am)
his landlord's kids get protested in front of their school (will no one beat up these troublesome kids?) [FAILED.  didn't last long]
his landlord's inlaws get death threats (fairly new tactic)

If you ever wondered why some think Christianity is a dangerous superstition, just drive by his office and see the people there.

/* three murders on that block since I moved here (it's a fairly big block).  We don't need a fourth+.
2013-02-19 06:13:41 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Honey, they still throw a supposed belief in God around whatever they do. They're not Satanists in any sense of the word.


<i>Supposed</i>, sure- but you must admit that what they portray themselves to be and who they truly are are frequently vastly divergent.
2013-02-19 12:29:02 PM
1 votes:

radarlove: The My Little Pony Killer: radarlove: Satanism has become the dominant religion in this country.

You have no idea what Satanism actually is.

Ooh, spooky- do tell.


It's an absense of God.  That's it.  No devil, no naked rituals under the moonlight, just Christianity minus the drama-queen at the center of it.
2013-02-19 12:30:08 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: School shootings/Gun Control: OH THE HORROR WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Killing unborn babies: HERO TAG?!?!? fark the children i guess right?


Protip: there are no children killed during abortions.
2013-02-19 12:23:34 AM
1 votes:

LesserEvil: I'm not a big fan of either side. Extremists are assholes.... but I'll throw this into the fire:

Anti-Abortion activist killed, shot multiple times in front of Owosso High School

[i.imgur.com image 453x289]

Abortion is a complicated subject. I have no issue with having the option available, but I do have issues with people who think it's not killing a life. Sugar-coating something like that dehumanizes the primary victim and places a bias on the decision toward abortion. Let's also stop talking about a fetus as if it is some sort of body extension, since it isn't - it's a genetically differentiated form of life, dependent on the mother. As for anti-abortion people, stop pretending that all life is sacred... it isn't. Murders, violent rapists, child molesters all deserve death. Terminally ill deserve dignity. Some children deserve to be spared a terrible life. Life isn't sacred. We used to have wars that killed thousands, hundreds of thousands... millions without concern for the "sacredness" of life.Too many people on this planet as it is... and either way, we should make informed, rational decisions without the extremist nuts trying to make those decisions for us.


I'm sorry you don't like the terminology, but any fetus that dares attempt to grow inside of me is a tumor and will be treated as such.
2013-02-19 12:19:42 AM
1 votes:

shotglasss: ThunderPelvis: "In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director forKansans for Life, later adding, "We don't want to be known as a community where you go to get your babies killed."

You'd prefer to be known as a community where doctors are killed for providing legal, often life-saving medical procedures.

Anyone who kills an abortionist is a hero to real Americans. There is no case where an abortion saves a woman's life when a C section that doesn't murder a human wouldn't accomplish the same thing.


Then go back to real Americans, leave the United States to those of us who value women.
2013-02-18 08:19:12 PM
1 votes:

Fluorescent Testicle: Realist29: While I am pro-choice - I'm glad my mom didn't have to go to some cave-like clinic in the middle of Kansas to have my skull cracked open, brain scrambled and then dissect my body to remove me from her fetus because she felt - it wasn't time yet. Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.

If you're pro-choice, I'm a nine-legged spider with three kinky supermodel girlfriends.


My GOD!  What do you DO with that ninth leg?!
2013-02-18 06:30:34 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?

Depends on the state.


Incorrect:  Third trimester abortion (or in fact any abortions past what is considered the point of viability, usually considered around 24 weeks) is only allowed nationally in cases where the mother's life or health are considered to be in danger, and even then is functionally only legal in Kansas and Nebraska at present.  (The general cut-off point for elective abortion legally is at the point of viability, which was firmly established in Planned Parenthood v. Casey.)

In fact, a number of states have provisions in place that could theoretically ban almost all abortions other than early first-trimester abortions with no life-or-health exemption (using the same law in place that banned D&X abortion--and the Supreme Court ruling that upheld the law--to call for banning any abortion at the beginning of neural development and afterward)

In addition, there are certain abortion procedures banned outright on a federal basis, specifically dilation and extraction (D&X), which was typically done in the case of late-trimester fetuses with severe birth defects (that made them nonviable) and which could not normally be delivered vaginally.  (As amazing as it sounds, most third-trimester abortions of the sort that Dr. Tiller performed before he was struck down by a dominionist terrorist group would be stillbirths or would die very early in life, and the very few physicians (in fact, there are only one or two left in the whole of North America) who perform third-trimester abortions do try to deliver an intact (if stillborn) fetus so that the parents can say goodbye.  Almost to a one, late-trimester abortion is not an elective "I don't want babby" procedure but a heartbreaking choice made to end a pregnancy that has gone tragically wrong.  Yes, this is even true in the extraordinarily rare cases where a very young teenager has had to have a Weeners-trimester abortion due to restrictive laws in her state--generally this is only permitted where there's evidence that the pregnancy will either kill the teen or leave her with a permanent disability--including the inability to have future children.)

And to the new doctor--GOOD ON HER FOR NOT LETTING THE GODDAMN TERRORISTS WIN.

/seriously, WHEN can we have the Army of God officially designated a domestic terrorist group and the NARasite churches protecting the terrorists and acting as their recruitment grounds officially listed as supporters of terrorism and have their assets seized under the Trading With The Enemy Act?
//Not kidding, either; this is EXACTLY what the US government does with ANY org that has been linked to funding designated terrorist groups like Al Qaeda--seize and freeze their assets in the US
///Also not kidding at all on the fact that NARasite leaders have actively solicited support for the Army of God domestic terrorist organisation and can be said to have actively solicited "martyrs" for the Army of God
2013-02-18 05:05:19 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick: In reality, they're going to need a full security team. Armed guards, evacuation plans...the whole nine yards. Because apparently here in America, we value the law of the land and the rights of women so little that we're willing to kill doctors over it, and probably patients.


If it saves just one unborn fetus, killing a dozen people in an abortion-clinic bombing is worth it.

/Oh, and two or three fetuses that were saved from abortion, but sadly died with the mother in the blast.
2013-02-18 03:29:41 PM
1 votes:

iheartscotch: But, you'd think people that are obviously for personal freedom would be supportive of all forms of personal freedom; not just the ones that they, personally, like.


Likewise.

Difficult to have personal responsibility without the ability to choose, eh?  And from what the tagline tells us, the Right side of the fence is all about personal responsibility...

I don't know what the right answer is of course, but yeah, times are strange...
2013-02-18 02:51:45 PM
1 votes:
I've always thought it was ironic that the biggest supporters of abortion are also the biggest supporters of gun control.

/ just sayin'
2013-02-18 02:23:37 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: Mr. Gittrich told the City Council that the clinic would create a nuisance for the neighborhood because of the protests it would attract. The planning commission is scheduled to meet this month to consider Mr. Gittrich's request to rezone the area to prohibit the clinic from opening.

Or, you could meet this month to consider NOT ALLOWING THE PROTESTS. It's easy--limit the amount of municipal property around the clinic, since legally they can't protest on the clinic's property, and if they choose to protest on someone else's property, the police can remove them as well. Have NO municipal property around the clinic, and the protesters will have to go elsewhere to be douchebags.


In reality, they're going to need a full security team. Armed guards, evacuation plans...the whole nine yards. Because apparently here in America, we value the law of the land and the rights of women so little that we're willing to kill doctors over it, and probably patients.

/If I had money, I would donate for that security team
//I hope someone with money does
2013-02-18 01:34:06 PM
1 votes:

purplegiraffe: FloydA: purplegiraffe: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: SkunkWerks: When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.

I don't even get how Christians arrived at the point where they consider fetuses to have a soul. The Bible is pretty clear that your soul enters you through the breath of life. Until you start breathing, you're just dust. Even under the most radical interpretation of the Bible, a zygote isn't a person.

Umm..... Have you read the thing?   "I praise you beause I am ferafully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.  My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place.  When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, yoru eyes saw my unformed body.  All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." I believe an unformed body is a pretty good definition for a zygote!

I'm having a hard time thinking of my mom's "secret place" as "the depths of the earth."
It could be that we're dealing with a metaphor here.

Golly, ya think? But my point was more in answer to what Sudo said about the breath of life and someone's radical interpretation of the Bible. Perhaps you/(s)he believe that 'all the days ordained' for the aforementioned zygote are only for those select zygotes who make it out safely? I'm just saying of you are going to argue BIBLE you should know all the stuff that's in there.



Your quote does not make the point that you think it makes.  The quote does not suggest that the "unformed body" is alive; you are bringing that interpretation to the quote, rather than deriving it from the quote.  Nothing in the quote suggests that the "ordained days" start before parturition.

Now if you already believe that life starts at some time prior to the first breath, there are certainly passages in the Bible that you can use to justify that belief, but the belief itself exists a priori.  It is not, itself, derived from reading the Bible.
2013-02-18 01:28:09 PM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: Johnnyflash: If only all these people opposed would get together and open up a place for girls/women to stay in and have their babbies for free, then give them up for adoption. And maybe instead of violence and constant harassment, focus on education, and heaven forbid the choice we all have as humans. That would be cool to see a building nearby with a big sign that said "don't abort, come here and give your baby a life and new home". Then have a picture of a happy family with a new babby.

Oh, sort of like this organization but without the unicorns
http://www.agapepregnancycenter.com/

Or one like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn
2013-02-18 01:19:00 PM
1 votes:

Johnnyflash: If only all these people opposed would get together and open up a place for girls/women to stay in and have their babbies for free, then give them up for adoption. And maybe instead of violence and constant harassment, focus on education, and heaven forbid the choice we all have as humans. That would be cool to see a building nearby with a big sign that said "don't abort, come here and give your baby a life and new home". Then have a picture of a happy family with a new babby.


Oh, sort of like this organization but without the unicorns
http://www.agapepregnancycenter.com/
2013-02-18 01:13:24 PM
1 votes:
If only all these people opposed would get together and open up a place for girls/women to stay in and have their babbies for free, then give them up for adoption. And maybe instead of violence and constant harassment, focus on education, and heaven forbid the choice we all have as humans. That would be cool to see a building nearby with a big sign that said "don't abort, come here and give your baby a life and new home". Then have a picture of a happy family with a new babby.
2013-02-18 01:11:44 PM
1 votes:

purplegiraffe: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: SkunkWerks: When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.

I don't even get how Christians arrived at the point where they consider fetuses to have a soul. The Bible is pretty clear that your soul enters you through the breath of life. Until you start breathing, you're just dust. Even under the most radical interpretation of the Bible, a zygote isn't a person.

Umm..... Have you read the thing?   "I praise you beause I am ferafully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.  My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place.  When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, yoru eyes saw my unformed body.  All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." I believe an unformed body is a pretty good definition for a zygote!


I'm having a hard time thinking of my mom's "secret place" as "the depths of the earth."
It could be that we're dealing with a metaphor here.
2013-02-18 12:43:55 PM
1 votes:
Biblically abortion at best is property damage to the HUSBAND.

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21&version=KJV
2013-02-18 12:31:18 PM
1 votes:
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d1n0zDngPI" target="_blank">This freaked me out.  Soldiers in the Army of God.</a>
2013-02-18 12:03:46 PM
1 votes:
This guy is toast. There is nothing the self-annnointed, true decsiples of Christ do better than killing people who they don't approve of.
2013-02-18 12:02:30 PM
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: Superfreak Economics had a how chapter about the benefits of legal abortion to society. Number one was a marked decrease in crime. Basically showed how 17 years after Roe vs Wade crime fell and keeps falling. Seventeen being the start of the "prime criminal " years. Plus they explained that with less poor children born everyone's life improved. But nobody can talk of abortion benefits


Something like this is hard to gauge on its effects upon society.

There were also other changes in this time that had an effect on crime, such as locking people up for even more pettier crimes for much longer than usual. There was also an uptick in technology leading for more crimes than ever to be solved, getting murders and rapists of the street. A greater understanding of mental health has allowed for better screening of mental illnesses.

I am not saying that abortion hasnt had any effect (affect?) on crime, but there are many variables that make this kind of thing difficult to trace.
2013-02-18 11:50:33 AM
1 votes:
School shootings/Gun Control: OH THE HORROR WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Killing unborn babies: HERO TAG?!?!? fark the children i guess right?
2013-02-18 11:39:46 AM
1 votes:

cs30109: zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?

No.  Abortions are legal up until the moment of birth in the U.S., as long as some doctor is willing to do it.  A doctor will always be able to find a reason to justify any abortion they want to perform---for the mother's "mental health," for instance.


Exactly, because doctors just love killing them some babies for any reason they can pull out of their arse. Because they're Evil, you know.
2013-02-18 10:30:27 AM
1 votes:

zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?


No.  Abortions are legal up until the moment of birth in the U.S., as long as some doctor is willing to do it.  A doctor will always be able to find a reason to justify any abortion they want to perform---for the mother's "mental health," for instance.
2013-02-18 10:10:30 AM
1 votes:

SkunkWerks: lordaction: These people are killing babies that can survive outside of the womb.

Hi.  14-week old fetuses tend to die outside the womb.  And by "tend to", I mean "always".

In fact, when you actually get to the "snowball's chance in hell" area of chance of extra-uterine survival, it's over a month later.

Your proposition is deformed.  Kindly abort it.


I don't know where you are getting 14 weeks old as 3rd trimester.
2013-02-18 09:52:32 AM
1 votes:

Raharu: It suits their narrative.


Might be a bit disingenuous.  The person I quoted claimed to be pro-choice.  But it's the second time I've read something like this in this thread- that C_section is always a viable alternative to late-term abortion.

I was pretty sure this wasn't the case even before I looked up that information.  I think it's just ignorance.
2013-02-18 09:21:48 AM
1 votes:
Abortion is cool.

I think that every pregnant woman ought to be forced to have an abortion for the next...oh...five years in order to slow the growth of the human population.

Wouldn't that be awesome? No one born for five straight years?
2013-02-18 09:14:54 AM
1 votes:
Superfreak Economics had a how chapter about the benefits of legal abortion to society. Number one was a marked decrease in crime. Basically showed how 17 years after Roe vs Wade crime fell and keeps falling. Seventeen being the start of the "prime criminal " years. Plus they explained that with less poor children born everyone's life improved. But nobody can talk of abortion benefits
2013-02-18 09:07:32 AM
1 votes:

LesserEvil: I'm not a big fan of either side. Extremists are assholes.... but I'll throw this into the fire:

Anti-Abortion activist killed, shot multiple times in front of Owosso High School

[i.imgur.com image 453x289]

Abortion is a complicated subject. I have no issue with having the option available, but I do have issues with people who think it's not killing a life. Sugar-coating something like that dehumanizes the primary victim and places a bias on the decision toward abortion. Let's also stop talking about a fetus as if it is some sort of body extension, since it isn't - it's a genetically differentiated form of life, dependent on the mother. As for anti-abortion people, stop pretending that all life is sacred... it isn't. Murders, violent rapists, child molesters all deserve death. Terminally ill deserve dignity. Some children deserve to be spared a terrible life. Life isn't sacred. We used to have wars that killed thousands, hundreds of thousands... millions without concern for the "sacredness" of life.Too many people on this planet as it is... and either way, we should make informed, rational decisions without the extremist nuts trying to make those decisions for us.


So let's see, a clear culture of violence and threats used to achieve political gains over multiple decades verses an isolated incident where the article doesn't even make it clear that the crime happened because of the person's abortion stance.  You're right dude, TOTALLY THE SAME.

Anyway, true conservatives know the body doesn't have a soul until it takes it's first breath.  Hell, you shouldn't even bother to give the thing a name until it's lived past a week.  You fancy progressives and your Greco-Judaic ideas.  By Odin, it gives me a headache just to think about it.
2013-02-18 08:29:45 AM
1 votes:

macadamnut: LesserEvil: As for anti-abortion people, stop pretending that all life is sacred... it isn't. Murderers, violent rapists, child molesters all deserve death.

You forgot blasphemers.


I realize some think we've elected a Muslim into office, but even if it were true, it still doesn't make us an Islamist country. Televangelists and cult leaders deserve to be on the death list before blasphemers.

There is simply no rational argument that anybody has a "right" not to be offended, but human beings should have an inherent "right" to express their beliefs without fear of punishment or  retribution, so long as it is believed to be truthful in good faith (i.e. not slanderous or libelous on purpose, not known to be untruthful and said to defame).

Our founding fathers knew the power of the freedom of speech, sad that even today, it is a struggle to keep that freedom alive, but it does show that such freedom has powerful enemies.
2013-02-18 08:19:47 AM
1 votes:

LesserEvil: As for anti-abortion people, stop pretending that all life is sacred... it isn't. Murderers, violent rapists, child molesters all deserve death.


You forgot blasphemers.
2013-02-18 08:02:19 AM
1 votes:

ck1938: My Hero!!!

[www.priestsforlife.org image 396x288]


Where's the proof that:
A) That's a real foetus
B) That foetus was aborted by a doctor and not miscarried
C) If B) then what the reason was for that abortion

Until you can answer those then kindly shut the fark up and piss off, adults are talking.
2013-02-18 07:56:38 AM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: Abortion clinics are like Darwin's self-checkout lanes.

Leave them be.


Actually, that's not correct. Many abortions prolong the woman's life, enabling her to reproduce later and in a more effective way. They are like Darwin's evolutionary booster lanes.
2013-02-18 07:53:19 AM
1 votes:

ck1938: My Hero!!!

[www.priestsforlife.org image 396x288]


So, assuming this photo is real and not shooped, then someone paid someone else to take this picture so they could blow it up to poster size and flash it around.

In nearly any other context, the same chain of people who made this possible would condemn this form of behavior.

Hypocrisy is so entertaining.
2013-02-18 07:52:26 AM
1 votes:
I'm not a big fan of either side. Extremists are assholes.... but I'll throw this into the fire:

Anti-Abortion activist killed, shot multiple times in front of Owosso High School

i.imgur.com

Abortion is a complicated subject. I have no issue with having the option available, but I do have issues with people who think it's not killing a life. Sugar-coating something like that dehumanizes the primary victim and places a bias on the decision toward abortion. Let's also stop talking about a fetus as if it is some sort of body extension, since it isn't - it's a genetically differentiated form of life, dependent on the mother. As for anti-abortion people, stop pretending that all life is sacred... it isn't. Murders, violent rapists, child molesters all deserve death. Terminally ill deserve dignity. Some children deserve to be spared a terrible life. Life isn't sacred. We used to have wars that killed thousands, hundreds of thousands... millions without concern for the "sacredness" of life.Too many people on this planet as it is... and either way, we should make informed, rational decisions without the extremist nuts trying to make those decisions for us.
2013-02-18 07:52:26 AM
1 votes:

davidphogan: ksdanj: I live in Wichita and I've lived here most of my life. I remember the "Summer of Mercy" in '92 and I remember Dr. Tiller being shot in the mid-nineties and I remember Dr. Tiller being assassinated in his church in 2009.

The reopening of this clinic is good news for those of us who would hated to have seen the Christian terrorists win.

I guarantee you that if another doctor who provides abortions in Wichita is murdered, the aftermath will play out very differently than it did in 2009. We were shocked in 2009. This time, we will be prepared.

What the fark is wrong with your state?

I'm sorry but between the WBC and this shiat it's hard to not think of everyone in that state as a backwards hick.


upload.wikimedia.org
2013-02-18 07:50:52 AM
1 votes:

Matthew Keene: ck1938: My Hero!!!

[www.priestsforlife.org image 396x288]

There be a bannin' on the breeze this mornin'!


Hold on until I can put him on ignore.
2013-02-18 07:39:22 AM
1 votes:

jeaux65: wildcardjack: If religious people . . .
Professional abortionists prevent injury from coat hangers that could result in death or infertility. Unless you want to ban wire hangers it's better for all to have professionals in this world.

You can't eliminate something there is demand for. The best you can do is to provide alternatives that minimize demand.

The best alts I can think of to minimize abortions:
1) Sex Ed that focuses on contraception (and plenty of "if you don't wrap it your junk will rot" FUD imagery)
2) High quality adoption services that include premium obstetric coverage
3)  Mother friendly workplaces. Heck, we need mother friendly colleges, with more campus childcare facilities. Too often motherhood is the end of professional development or higher education.
 . . .


So much this. But any time I bring any of these points up, I'm met with the cries of "Socialism!" I have my own issues with abortion, but just because I don't plan on ever having one doesn't mean I need to go about shaming another human being who feels they need one. What was that quote, don't judge until you walk a mile, something something...

More contraceptives, more sex education, more resources.

/Christian
//Love the slashies.


Agreed.  I'm old enough to remember pre-Roe v.Wade, dammit.  And while the movie "Dirty Dancing" really sanitized it, back street abortions by butchers did occur.  Hell, they're probably still occurring in places not close to protected abortion clinics.

2013-02-18 06:55:18 AM
1 votes:

shotglasss: Anyone who kills an abortionist is a hero to real Americans.



define "real American"
2013-02-18 06:33:16 AM
1 votes:

The Envoy: James F. Campbell: DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.

Man, you really are an evil farking asshole, aren't you?

No, he's simply a dimwit who can't troll using wit or intelligence so he goes down the only avenue available to him: being a threadshiatting coont.


Yeah, well, that doesn't make him any better than someone who actually espouses the opinion he only pretends to claim. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Trolls are a waste of perfectly good oxygen.
2013-02-18 06:30:24 AM
1 votes:

James F. Campbell: DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.

Man, you really are an evil farking asshole, aren't you?


No, he's simply a dimwit who can't troll using wit or intelligence so he goes down the only avenue available to him: being a threadshiatting coont.
2013-02-18 06:17:50 AM
1 votes:
Abortion is the responsible choice.
2013-02-18 06:10:08 AM
1 votes:

RabidJade: The justifications for abortions from the left are so cute. The rhetoric from both sides just sounds like a bunch of kids arguing about something where they got their facts from "friends of friends" or the Internet.

//don't care either way


Stop lying.
2013-02-18 06:01:40 AM
1 votes:

RabidJade: The justifications for abortions from the left are so cute. The rhetoric from both sides just sounds like a bunch of kids arguing about something where they got their facts from "friends of friends" or the Internet.

//don't care either way
//but the arguments bring out misguided, misleading, and unproven talking points too much


Civil liberties accepted by the Founding Fathers are "cute"?

Learn some history,
2013-02-18 05:59:58 AM
1 votes:

Green Scorpio: Well I figured if it was a colleague of a doctor, it must have been a man.


Yeah, because in the brave decade of the 1950's women wouldn't dare trying to be doctors. We all know that they can't do anything in the medical professions except nursing and handing shiat to the dentist.
2013-02-18 04:52:38 AM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: You know, this "We can't mention another poster by name, lest it anger the ModMins" thing gets a little farking ridiculous when your thread spans over 2 pages and nobody can figure out who the fark you are talking about. Can you tell me in code? Maybe tap it out on the floor? Smoke signals? Carrier pigeons?


Oh, Cman. You can click on the usernames to follow the quotes back, you know.
2013-02-18 04:51:31 AM
1 votes:

Green Scorpio: Mikey1969: Green Scorpio: He should open a gun store.Then he could be responsible for even more deaths.

It's a farking SHE, people, TRY to RTFA for once!!

Didn't mean to piss in your cheerios, Mikey.
I didn't RTFA because i DGAF


You're a braver man than most... most of us get kinda upset when someone correctly points out that we sound stupid. You, on the other hand, DGAF. Well done.
2013-02-18 04:37:09 AM
1 votes:

Bathysphere: How a about keeping a stiff upper lip until it all blows over? Let them protest all they want, but prepare to pounce if they do anything illegal.


Yeah, because the Dr in question saw how well it worked for Tiller to wait until the pro-lifers did something illegal. The "pounce" was a little slow that day.
2013-02-18 04:34:03 AM
1 votes:

Fluorescent Testicle: /FTFY.
//But I'm sure it's just coincidence that he's never told a pro-Republican thread to "Stop being political and go back to Free Republic."
///He might have showed promise for a while, but now he's nothing but another tiresome threadshiatter.


You know, this "We can't mention another poster by name, lest it anger the ModMins" thing gets a little farking ridiculous when your thread spans over 2 pages and nobody can figure out who the fark you are talking about. Can you tell me in code? Maybe tap it out on the floor? Smoke signals? Carrier pigeons?
2013-02-18 04:31:27 AM
1 votes:

super_grass: The important thing is that you get to feel superior to him.


and he gets to feel superior to everyone in the thread by saying absolutely nothing.
2013-02-18 04:24:06 AM
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Biological Ali: 
Look, I get that you guys are trying to troll this thread, but damn, at least aim for some minimum level of coherence. I mean, who's even going to bother trying to decipher this gibberish?

I'm just farking around. In all honesty I'm pro-dinner roll.

You don't give a fark what happens to that dinner roll once it's out of the oven.


I'm pro-dinner roll, except in cases of crepe.
2013-02-18 04:15:51 AM
1 votes:

DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.


I wonder... is "Don't post hate speech" an actual rule here, or just a polite suggestion? I guess I'll find out in the morning, depending on whether this post is still around.
2013-02-18 04:15:31 AM
1 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Biological Ali: 
Look, I get that you guys are trying to troll this thread, but damn, at least aim for some minimum level of coherence. I mean, who's even going to bother trying to decipher this gibberish?

I'm just farking around. In all honesty I'm pro-dinner roll.


You don't give a fark what happens to that dinner roll once it's out of the oven.
2013-02-18 04:09:34 AM
1 votes:

Ed Grubermann: DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.

And I hope that you wife or your daughter dies because she couldn't get a medically needed abortion to save her life.


i46.tinypic.com
2013-02-18 04:04:21 AM
1 votes:
I hope he stays safe. George Tiller was a christian, just had a different philosophy than others. The bible says you should not discriminate against Christians with different ideas, as you are all doing your best to make sky daddy happy and live a compassionate life
/agnostic, but still find religious manuscripts to contain decent points.
2013-02-18 04:04:12 AM
1 votes:

DrPainMD: Hopefully, he'll meet the same fate.


And I hope that you wife or your daughter dies because she couldn't get a medically needed abortion to save her life.
2013-02-18 03:43:57 AM
1 votes:
Dawwww, isn't that cute? They can't win via normal methods (that don't include cold blooded murder), so they try to change the rules of the game. And to boot having an assclown say the clinic would become a nuisance for the neighbors due to all the protesting [his group] would do.

Also find it hilarious that they're referencing the KKK to the clinic.

/any odds on her chances of ending up like Tiller?
2013-02-18 03:32:54 AM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: Great.

Now maybe the Chinese restaurant down the street can reopen as well.


Usually, it's just housecats in danger.

You incredibly sick bastard.
2013-02-18 03:32:06 AM
1 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: encyclopediaplushuman: Remember if it's Muslims doing the killing it's "terrorism" but if it's Christians doing the killing it's "patriotism".

Said no one, ever


This is fark, if someone's never said something that equivocates to this I'll donate to the Westboro Baptist Church.
2013-02-18 03:28:48 AM
1 votes:
If you truly believe that abortion is murder, then abortionists are mass murders. If you believe that you can save the lives of hundreds by killing one murderer, isn't an act of patriotic duty to kill that person and accept the consequences as a form of civil disobedience?

As long as people believe that the child in the womb is worth more than a mass of cells, you will have people willing to step in where the law refuses to step in.
2013-02-18 03:26:52 AM
1 votes:

encyclopediaplushuman: Remember if it's Muslims doing the killing it's "terrorism" but if it's Christians doing the killing it's "patriotism".


Said no one, ever
2013-02-18 03:25:51 AM
1 votes:
Good.

Abortion is the closest thing to natural selection/eugenics that is still tolerated and I'll be damned if the fundies take the last filter out of the pool.
2013-02-18 03:02:12 AM
1 votes:

zedster: FTFA:Abortion opponents have vowed to keep it closed. Already, they have filed complaints with the city accusing Ms. Burkhart of renovating the clinic without proper permits. They have collected around 14,000 signatures in opposition to her plan. They have asked Wichita officials to change zoning rules to prohibit the clinic from operating in its current location. They have prayed.

I bet these people prayed for Obama to not get re-elected. I'm sure they are prayed for someone other then Mitt in the primaries. How is that whole prayer thing working out for you?

either:
A) the prayers they do nothing
B) God hates you


www.troll.me
2013-02-18 02:18:22 AM
1 votes:

dickfreckle: propasaurus: ...and he'll make sure to go into every Politics tab thread to say so.

I've read many of his posts, and while I might not agree I can clearly see that he's not an asshole.

Dude, seriously.


Seriously. He's not a troll, we disagree sometimes, we agree from time to time. He's just on this 'take it to Kos' kick lately.
2013-02-18 02:15:07 AM
1 votes:

dickfreckle: propasaurus: ...and he'll make sure to go into every Politics tab thread to say so.

I've read many of his posts, and while I might not agree I can clearly see that he's not an asshole.

Dude, seriously.


Actually, I've seen him post basically the same cut and paste over the last 24 hours. He really does seem to be deliberately derailing conversations. I had to put him on ignore earlier today for that reason, even though he had, up until then, been on my "favorite conservatives" list.
2013-02-18 01:49:08 AM
1 votes:

propasaurus: ...and he'll make sure to go into every Politics tab thread to say so.


I've read many of his posts, and while I might not agree I can clearly see that he's not an asshole.

Dude, seriously.
2013-02-18 01:20:03 AM
1 votes:
...and he'll make sure to go into every Politics tab thread to say so.
2013-02-18 01:19:03 AM
1 votes:

dickfreckle: cman: 1. This is awesome
2. Please bring the liberal circle jerk back to Kos

I don't think this is a 'liberal' or 'conservative' issue. It's about Jesus freaks who mostly constitute the protesting and shooting crowd. Like it or not, abortion is a right decreed by the highest authority in the land. That most of them are [Tea]publicans is just how it is.

/fetuses aren't red or blue...it's a personal choice now feircely made political
//Kos does suck, I'll give you that


No, you see it's been decreed by the c man that FARK is not an appropriate place for these discussions; FARK is only suitable for snarky comments. Any discussion (particularly those of a political nature,) should it involve a liberal expressing a point of view, is only allowed to occur at Kos.
2013-02-18 01:05:32 AM
1 votes:
we really need to step up the pro-abortion protesting.
might be good exercise too.

drive over to a clinic
take a TON of photos of the nice protesters
go walk with them and get their names and put trackers on their cars
follow them home and protest some more ...
first amendment right?

god I hate these people more than bush and cheney
2013-02-18 12:52:39 AM
1 votes:

ksdanj: GAT_00: ksdanj: I live in Wichita and I've lived here most of my life. I remember the "Summer of Mercy" in '92 and I remember Dr. Tiller being shot in the mid-nineties and I remember Dr. Tiller being assassinated in his church in 2009.

The reopening of this clinic is good news for those of us who would hated to have seen the Christian terrorists win.

I guarantee you that if another doctor who provides abortions in Wichita is murdered, the aftermath will play out very differently than it did in 2009. We were shocked in 2009. This time, we will be prepared.

More celebrations then?

Nope, Old Testament retribution.


Yeah, I really doubt that is what will happen.
2013-02-18 12:15:43 AM
1 votes:

GAT_00: ksdanj: I live in Wichita and I've lived here most of my life. I remember the "Summer of Mercy" in '92 and I remember Dr. Tiller being shot in the mid-nineties and I remember Dr. Tiller being assassinated in his church in 2009.

The reopening of this clinic is good news for those of us who would hated to have seen the Christian terrorists win.

I guarantee you that if another doctor who provides abortions in Wichita is murdered, the aftermath will play out very differently than it did in 2009. We were shocked in 2009. This time, we will be prepared.

More celebrations then?


Nope, Old Testament retribution.
2013-02-18 12:04:09 AM
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: Fark Kansas.

FloydA: No way. At this point, I'm not even willing to kiss it.


Nuke Kansas?
2013-02-17 11:03:53 PM
1 votes:

zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?


This clinic will not be performing any abortions for women who are more than 14 weeks pregnant.
2013-02-17 10:09:16 PM
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: Fark Kansas.


No way.  At this point, I'm not even willing to kiss it.
 
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