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(The New York Times)   Former colleague of Dr. George Tiller set to reopen his shuttered abortion clinic to keep the terrorists from winning   (nytimes.com) divider line 271
    More: Hero, Dr. George R. Tiller, abortion clinic, Kansans for Life, abortions, infanticides, Sam Brownback, development director  
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4767 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2013 at 3:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-18 07:53:19 AM  

ck1938: My Hero!!!

[www.priestsforlife.org image 396x288]


So, assuming this photo is real and not shooped, then someone paid someone else to take this picture so they could blow it up to poster size and flash it around.

In nearly any other context, the same chain of people who made this possible would condemn this form of behavior.

Hypocrisy is so entertaining.
 
2013-02-18 07:56:38 AM  

Amos Quito: Abortion clinics are like Darwin's self-checkout lanes.

Leave them be.


Actually, that's not correct. Many abortions prolong the woman's life, enabling her to reproduce later and in a more effective way. They are like Darwin's evolutionary booster lanes.
 
2013-02-18 08:02:19 AM  

ck1938: My Hero!!!

[www.priestsforlife.org image 396x288]


Where's the proof that:
A) That's a real foetus
B) That foetus was aborted by a doctor and not miscarried
C) If B) then what the reason was for that abortion

Until you can answer those then kindly shut the fark up and piss off, adults are talking.
 
2013-02-18 08:04:11 AM  
And this is why your tax rates are rising. You pro-abortion libtards have killed millions, upon millions, of tax payers in this country.
 
2013-02-18 08:05:40 AM  

LesserEvil: but I do have issues with people who think it's not killing a life.


It's killing life, yes.  Then again, so does taking a shower, curing an ear infection and so on.  Why we don't care about the one when we do care about the other is a function of believing that one sort of life is inherently special while the other is not.  When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.

Now, I- like you- don't think that abortion is something that should be taken lightly as an option (although it should be an option).  The problem is that, from there, it becomes a matter of drawing what not all will call "reasonable" lines or limitations.  It also runs the gamut of legislating things like personal responsibility- which nearly never works out well for any involved.

If you want to breed responsibility in people, you don't do it by way of legislation.  The process takes a good deal longer, begins far earlier, and requires the intimate involvement of adult role models- whether they be parents, adoptive parents, legal guardians, or whatever.
 
2013-02-18 08:19:33 AM  
Good Luck to them. What do the women of Kansas do currently for ectopic pregnancies and life-threatening late term problems? Do they let them die like that woman in Ireland did recently?
 
2013-02-18 08:19:47 AM  

LesserEvil: As for anti-abortion people, stop pretending that all life is sacred... it isn't. Murderers, violent rapists, child molesters all deserve death.


You forgot blasphemers.
 
2013-02-18 08:19:55 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: AverageAmericanGuy: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Biological Ali: 
Look, I get that you guys are trying to troll this thread, but damn, at least aim for some minimum level of coherence. I mean, who's even going to bother trying to decipher this gibberish?

I'm just farking around. In all honesty I'm pro-dinner roll.

You don't give a fark what happens to that dinner roll once it's out of the oven.

I'm pro-dinner roll, except in cases of crepe.


LOL oh, thank you, you magnificent bastard.
 
2013-02-18 08:27:13 AM  

wildcardjack: If religious people could think things out they wouldn't be religious.

Professional abortionists prevent injury from coat hangers that could result in death or infertility. Unless you want to ban wire hangers it's better for all to have professionals in this world.

You can't eliminate something there is demand for. The best you can do is to provide alternatives that minimize demand.

The best alts I can think of to minimize abortions:
1) Sex Ed that focuses on contraception (and plenty of "if you don't wrap it your junk will rot" FUD imagery)
2) High quality adoption services that include premium obstetric coverage
3)  Mother friendly workplaces. Heck, we need mother friendly colleges, with more campus childcare facilities. Too often motherhood is the end of professional development or higher education.

It is immoral to oppose abortion in a knee jerk manner. Actually, it's an asshole lifestyle to oppose abortion and not work to provide what you would find to be better options. But the better options might require work, and work is bad if you aren't getting paid. Well, maybe you farking Christians need to tithe a part of your LIFE to make things better (from your point of view).

/I'm all in favor of more abortions.
//All around the world.
///And free condoms everywhere.


You're totally right. I read something awhile ago from another Farker and the gist was that a woman will not carry a child if she doesn't want to.  Coat hanger, illegal practices, whatever.  If she is dead set against carrying, she won't.   It's better to have the appropriate care for those women to have safe procedures.
 
2013-02-18 08:29:45 AM  

macadamnut: LesserEvil: As for anti-abortion people, stop pretending that all life is sacred... it isn't. Murderers, violent rapists, child molesters all deserve death.

You forgot blasphemers.


I realize some think we've elected a Muslim into office, but even if it were true, it still doesn't make us an Islamist country. Televangelists and cult leaders deserve to be on the death list before blasphemers.

There is simply no rational argument that anybody has a "right" not to be offended, but human beings should have an inherent "right" to express their beliefs without fear of punishment or  retribution, so long as it is believed to be truthful in good faith (i.e. not slanderous or libelous on purpose, not known to be untruthful and said to defame).

Our founding fathers knew the power of the freedom of speech, sad that even today, it is a struggle to keep that freedom alive, but it does show that such freedom has powerful enemies.
 
2013-02-18 08:33:21 AM  
Just not enough killin' goin' on.  Killin' each other seems like the 'Merican way.  Or is murder a religious right?
Live sacrifice, sort of thing.
Savages.

Where the fark were these folks when Union Carbide was killing in wholesale lots?
Why don't they take on the tobacco companies?
Sort of picking and choosing their targets because doctors and pregnant women are easier to kill?
 
2013-02-18 08:39:59 AM  

LesserEvil: I'm not a big fan of either side. Extremists are assholes.... but I'll throw this into the fire:

Anti-Abortion activist killed, shot multiple times in front of Owosso High School

[i.imgur.com image 453x289]

 Life isn't sacred. We used to have wars that killed thousands, hundreds of thousands... millions without concern for the "sacredness" of life.


... I'm confused, are you saying you want to return to a world where millions of lives lost to war?  That the end or significant decrease in such events was a bad thing?

/just finished reading accounts of the Battle of the Somme and the Brusilov Offensive from a happier time when we weren't all so hung up on valuing life so much
 
2013-02-18 08:42:18 AM  

SkunkWerks: When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.


I don't even get how Christians arrived at the point where they consider fetuses to have a soul. The Bible is pretty clear that your soul enters you through the breath of life. Until you start breathing, you're just dust. Even under the most radical interpretation of the Bible, a zygote isn't a person.
 
2013-02-18 08:43:45 AM  

shotglasss: ThunderPelvis: "In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director forKansans for Life, later adding, "We don't want to be known as a community where you go to get your babies killed."

You'd prefer to be known as a community where doctors are killed for providing legal, often life-saving medical procedures.

Anyone who kills an abortionist is a hero to real Americans. There is no case where an abortion saves a woman's life when a C section that doesn't murder a human wouldn't accomplish the same thing.




I've saved your post supporting domestic terror for future use. Thank you.
 
2013-02-18 08:44:12 AM  
Anybody that grinds unborn babies into chunky stew certainly deserves a hero tag.
 
2013-02-18 08:46:47 AM  
LOL as if human life has any value, just look at this place :D

why do racist christian bigots hate women's freedom?

vote democrat
 
2013-02-18 08:51:23 AM  
Hero tag? so this guy managed to not eat his own poop?

FloydA: ThunderPelvis: "In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director forKansans for Life, later adding, "We don't want to be known as a community where you go to get your babies killed."

You'd prefer to be known as a community where doctors are killed for providing legal, often life-saving medical procedures.

Yeah, pretty much that.

"Oh we don't want people to think that we allow globs of snot to die here!  We would much rather people think that we execute medical professionals.  That's a lot better!"


LOLZ THIS^ christians are so retarded

FloydA: Vodka Zombie: Fark Kansas.

No way.  At this point, I'm not even willing to kiss it.


LOLZ THIS^ their stupidity is contagious

abb3w: Vodka Zombie: Fark Kansas.
FloydA: No way. At this point, I'm not even willing to kiss it.

Nuke Kansas?


AMEN Brother! *brofisting*

death to all christians

Raharu: shotglasss: ThunderPelvis: "In reality, I'd like them to be closed forever and ever, amen," said David Gittrich, the development director forKansans for Life, later adding, "We don't want to be known as a community where you go to get your babies killed."

You'd prefer to be known as a community where doctors are killed for providing legal, often life-saving medical procedures.

Anyone who kills an abortionist is a hero to real Americans. There is no case where an abortion saves a woman's life when a C section that doesn't murder a human wouldn't accomplish the same thing.

I've saved your post supporting domestic terror for future use. Thank you.


LULZ, I agree with anything these^^^ people say :D, FOR SCIENCE!

Intelligent Brigade in da howse *salute*
 
2013-02-18 09:00:47 AM  

Mose: LesserEvil: I'm not a big fan of either side. Extremists are assholes.... but I'll throw this into the fire:

Anti-Abortion activist killed, shot multiple times in front of Owosso High School

[i.imgur.com image 453x289]

 Life isn't sacred. We used to have wars that killed thousands, hundreds of thousands... millions without concern for the "sacredness" of life.

... I'm confused, are you saying you want to return to a world where millions of lives lost to war?  That the end or significant decrease in such events was a bad thing?

/just finished reading accounts of the Battle of the Somme and the Brusilov Offensive from a happier time when we weren't all so hung up on valuing life so much


War is pretty brutal for those that must endure it. It would be great if we lived in a world with unending resources to support a rapidly increasing population, but the sad truth is, we can't. War is ugly, too for more than the cost in life... it wastes a lot of resources, and short term, puts an even larger strain on our planet's ability to support that population.

Having said that, I am a pragmatist. Wars have traditionally eased population pressures, as have famines, plagues... but mankind has been winning those battles, and I'm not entirely sure it is wise. It may happen that instead of whittling down our numbers as we bump the limitations of Earth to support us, we end up popping that limit like a bubble and everything crashes down.

Utopia won't happen for mankind until we get off this planet and start figuring out how to exploit the rest of our solar system and the stars beyond. Until then, "world peace"  may be the cure that is worse than the disease.
 
2013-02-18 09:06:27 AM  

LesserEvil: Utopia won't happen for mankind until we get off this planet and start figuring out how to exploit the rest of our solar system and the stars beyond.


I would argue Utopia will never occur.  But as far as living with less pressure to brutalize one another, looking past our own ball of rock would be a great first step.
 
2013-02-18 09:07:13 AM  

Mikey1969: Green Scorpio: Mikey1969: Green Scorpio: He should open a gun store.Then he could be responsible for even more deaths.

It's a farking SHE, people, TRY to RTFA for once!!

Didn't mean to piss in your cheerios, Mikey.
I didn't RTFA because i DGAF

But you GAF enough to come in and post. What a weird hobby, posting messages in a board referring to a story that you DGAF about. Even porn addiction seems more productive. Hell, making a rubber-band ball makes more sense.


Mikey1969: Green Scorpio: Well I figured if it was a colleague of a doctor, it must have been a man.

Yeah, because in the brave decade of the 1950's women wouldn't dare trying to be doctors. We all know that they can't do anything in the medical professions except nursing and handing shiat to the dentist.


goddam that was easy.
 
2013-02-18 09:07:32 AM  

LesserEvil: I'm not a big fan of either side. Extremists are assholes.... but I'll throw this into the fire:

Anti-Abortion activist killed, shot multiple times in front of Owosso High School

[i.imgur.com image 453x289]

Abortion is a complicated subject. I have no issue with having the option available, but I do have issues with people who think it's not killing a life. Sugar-coating something like that dehumanizes the primary victim and places a bias on the decision toward abortion. Let's also stop talking about a fetus as if it is some sort of body extension, since it isn't - it's a genetically differentiated form of life, dependent on the mother. As for anti-abortion people, stop pretending that all life is sacred... it isn't. Murders, violent rapists, child molesters all deserve death. Terminally ill deserve dignity. Some children deserve to be spared a terrible life. Life isn't sacred. We used to have wars that killed thousands, hundreds of thousands... millions without concern for the "sacredness" of life.Too many people on this planet as it is... and either way, we should make informed, rational decisions without the extremist nuts trying to make those decisions for us.


So let's see, a clear culture of violence and threats used to achieve political gains over multiple decades verses an isolated incident where the article doesn't even make it clear that the crime happened because of the person's abortion stance.  You're right dude, TOTALLY THE SAME.

Anyway, true conservatives know the body doesn't have a soul until it takes it's first breath.  Hell, you shouldn't even bother to give the thing a name until it's lived past a week.  You fancy progressives and your Greco-Judaic ideas.  By Odin, it gives me a headache just to think about it.
 
2013-02-18 09:09:53 AM  
Are you insane????!
 
2013-02-18 09:10:42 AM  
Well this got disgusting in a hurry.
 
2013-02-18 09:14:54 AM  
Superfreak Economics had a how chapter about the benefits of legal abortion to society. Number one was a marked decrease in crime. Basically showed how 17 years after Roe vs Wade crime fell and keeps falling. Seventeen being the start of the "prime criminal " years. Plus they explained that with less poor children born everyone's life improved. But nobody can talk of abortion benefits
 
2013-02-18 09:17:18 AM  

super_grass: Good.

Abortion is the closest thing to natural selection/eugenics that is still tolerated and I'll be damned if the fundies take the last filter out of the pool.


Why do you think Planned Parenthood was started in the first place?
 
2013-02-18 09:21:48 AM  
Abortion is cool.

I think that every pregnant woman ought to be forced to have an abortion for the next...oh...five years in order to slow the growth of the human population.

Wouldn't that be awesome? No one born for five straight years?
 
2013-02-18 09:23:46 AM  

I drunk what: Hero tag? so this guy managed to not eat his own poop?


...
 LOLZ THIS^ christians are so retarded

...


LOLZ THIS^ their stupidity is contagious


...

Nuke Kansas?

AMEN Brother! *brofisting*

death to all christians

...

LULZ, I agree with anything these^^^ people say :D, FOR SCIENCE!

Intelligent Brigade in da howse *salute*


Wow, you're so clever! You've completely convinced everyone that you're actually on the pro-choice side, myself included, and that the pro-choice side is as repulsively stupid as you're acting!

Someone get this man an Oscar! Bravo, bravo!
 
2013-02-18 09:25:37 AM  

jedikinkoid: You've completely convinced everyone that you're actually on the pro-choice side


IDW takes no sides.  IDW likes to talk about himself in the third person.
 
2013-02-18 09:27:48 AM  
LesserEvil:  Until then, "world peace"  may be the cure that is worse than the disease.

And I may be having sex with Candice Swanepowel tonight.
 
2013-02-18 09:28:46 AM  
While I am pro-choice - I'm glad my mom didn't have to go to some cave-like clinic in the middle of Kansas to have my skull cracked open, brain scrambled and then dissect my body to remove me from her fetus because she felt - it wasn't time yet. Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.
 
2013-02-18 09:32:51 AM  

Realist29: Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

Still trying to figure out where people are getting the idea that a 14-week-old fetus has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving outside the womb...
 
2013-02-18 09:34:59 AM  

SkunkWerks: Realist29: Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

Still trying to figure out where people are getting the idea that a 14-week-old fetus has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving outside the womb...


It suits their narrative.
 
2013-02-18 09:50:03 AM  

Realist29: While I am pro-choice - I'm glad my mom didn't have to go to some cave-like clinic in the middle of Kansas to have my skull cracked open, brain scrambled and then dissect my body to remove me from her fetus because she felt - it wasn't time yet. Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.


I remember hearing a story from one of Tiller's patients: her fetus was in its third term and discovered to be horribly deformed. It suffered some bizarre genetic defect that would've meant it would be born, live in agonizing pain for about a day, and then die. So she did the merciful thing.

If it's not threatening to the mother's life, that doesn't mean it's frivolous.
 
2013-02-18 09:52:32 AM  

Raharu: It suits their narrative.


Might be a bit disingenuous.  The person I quoted claimed to be pro-choice.  But it's the second time I've read something like this in this thread- that C_section is always a viable alternative to late-term abortion.

I was pretty sure this wasn't the case even before I looked up that information.  I think it's just ignorance.
 
2013-02-18 09:56:07 AM  
Absolutely disgusting.  These people are killing babies that can survive outside of the womb.  Why don't they just deliver them and put them up for adoption instead of murdering them.
 
2013-02-18 09:58:37 AM  

lordaction: These people are killing babies that can survive outside of the womb.


Hi.  14-week old fetuses tend to die outside the womb.  And by "tend to", I mean "always".

In fact, when you actually get to the "snowball's chance in hell" area of chance of extra-uterine survival, it's over a month later.

Your proposition is deformed.  Kindly abort it.
 
2013-02-18 10:03:01 AM  

Wayne 985: It suffered some bizarre genetic defect


Here is one of the problems with abortions. We are depriving Barnum & Bailey of the next generation of circus freaks.
 
2013-02-18 10:10:30 AM  

SkunkWerks: lordaction: These people are killing babies that can survive outside of the womb.

Hi.  14-week old fetuses tend to die outside the womb.  And by "tend to", I mean "always".

In fact, when you actually get to the "snowball's chance in hell" area of chance of extra-uterine survival, it's over a month later.

Your proposition is deformed.  Kindly abort it.


I don't know where you are getting 14 weeks old as 3rd trimester.
 
2013-02-18 10:18:30 AM  

Realist29: While I am pro-choice - I'm glad my mom didn't have to go to some cave-like clinic in the middle of Kansas to have my skull cracked open, brain scrambled and then dissect my body to remove me from her fetus because she felt - it wasn't time yet. Late term abortions were provided for such cases in Wichita - more so than for "life threatening" cases to the mother which - by law - can be performed in any hospital. Its called a c-section.


If you're pro-choice, I'm a nine-legged spider with three kinky supermodel girlfriends.
 
2013-02-18 10:21:12 AM  

lordaction: SkunkWerks: lordaction: These people are killing babies that can survive outside of the womb.

Hi.  14-week old fetuses tend to die outside the womb.  And by "tend to", I mean "always".

In fact, when you actually get to the "snowball's chance in hell" area of chance of extra-uterine survival, it's over a month later.

Your proposition is deformed.  Kindly abort it.

I don't know where you are getting 14 weeks old as 3rd trimester.


The damn article.
 
2013-02-18 10:30:27 AM  

zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?


No.  Abortions are legal up until the moment of birth in the U.S., as long as some doctor is willing to do it.  A doctor will always be able to find a reason to justify any abortion they want to perform---for the mother's "mental health," for instance.
 
2013-02-18 10:49:27 AM  

Mikey1969: "...setting the stage for a re-emergence of the fiery passions that once made this conservative manufacturing town the center of the abortion battle in the United States."

I always wondered where they came from. How badly did the recession harm the conservative manufacturing sector?


I think mostly they're just manufacturing fewer conservatives.
 
2013-02-18 11:39:46 AM  

cs30109: zedster: Aren't late term abortions only legal in cases were the mother's life is in danger in the US?

No.  Abortions are legal up until the moment of birth in the U.S., as long as some doctor is willing to do it.  A doctor will always be able to find a reason to justify any abortion they want to perform---for the mother's "mental health," for instance.


Exactly, because doctors just love killing them some babies for any reason they can pull out of their arse. Because they're Evil, you know.
 
2013-02-18 11:45:26 AM  
KIll, the babies, kill, kill ....
 
2013-02-18 11:50:33 AM  
School shootings/Gun Control: OH THE HORROR WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Killing unborn babies: HERO TAG?!?!? fark the children i guess right?
 
2013-02-18 12:02:30 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Superfreak Economics had a how chapter about the benefits of legal abortion to society. Number one was a marked decrease in crime. Basically showed how 17 years after Roe vs Wade crime fell and keeps falling. Seventeen being the start of the "prime criminal " years. Plus they explained that with less poor children born everyone's life improved. But nobody can talk of abortion benefits


Something like this is hard to gauge on its effects upon society.

There were also other changes in this time that had an effect on crime, such as locking people up for even more pettier crimes for much longer than usual. There was also an uptick in technology leading for more crimes than ever to be solved, getting murders and rapists of the street. A greater understanding of mental health has allowed for better screening of mental illnesses.

I am not saying that abortion hasnt had any effect (affect?) on crime, but there are many variables that make this kind of thing difficult to trace.
 
2013-02-18 12:03:46 PM  
This guy is toast. There is nothing the self-annnointed, true decsiples of Christ do better than killing people who they don't approve of.
 
2013-02-18 12:23:01 PM  

SkunkWerks: LesserEvil: but I do have issues with people who think it's not killing a life.

It's killing life, yes.  Then again, so does taking a shower, curing an ear infection and so on.  Why we don't care about the one when we do care about the other is a function of believing that one sort of life is inherently special while the other is not.  When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.

Now, I- like you- don't think that abortion is something that should be taken lightly as an option (although it should be an option).  The problem is that, from there, it becomes a matter of drawing what not all will call "reasonable" lines or limitations.  It also runs the gamut of legislating things like personal responsibility- which nearly never works out well for any involved.

If you want to breed responsibility in people, you don't do it by way of legislation.  The process takes a good deal longer, begins far earlier, and requires the intimate involvement of adult role models- whether they be parents, adoptive parents, legal guardians, or whatever.


It is amazing and awe inspiring to have two intelligent, well-worded 'arguements' in this thread. I agree to a certain extent with you both.... However, on the matter of drawing what not all will call 'reasonable' lines or limitations-- One must draw these lines with humans.  Otherwise, if this 'life' growing inside another human is not 'special' then it stands to reason that a 'life' growing outside another human is equally not 'special'. I think your logic is flawed.
 
2013-02-18 12:31:18 PM  
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d1n0zDngPI" target="_blank">This freaked me out.  Soldiers in the Army of God.</a>
 
2013-02-18 12:32:56 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: SkunkWerks: When people say "killing a life", honestly what they're talking about is "killing a soul", and really, unless you're the sort of person that believes in such things, this is well out of bounds.

I don't even get how Christians arrived at the point where they consider fetuses to have a soul. The Bible is pretty clear that your soul enters you through the breath of life. Until you start breathing, you're just dust. Even under the most radical interpretation of the Bible, a zygote isn't a person.


Umm..... Have you read the thing?   "I praise you beause I am ferafully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.  My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place.  When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, yoru eyes saw my unformed body.  All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." I believe an unformed body is a pretty good definition for a zygote!
 
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