It is a cultural problem that will not change until the culture is changed from one is which academic achievement is "acting white", the culture of thuggism is no longer celebrated by things like rap "music" and single motherhood is no longer the norm .

(Let me fix that for you)

After white people decide to stop twisting children's minds to make a buck using obvious misdirected emotional appeals  we'll keep having generations of children who, in the absence of a strong male role models, due to insanely biased incarceration statistics and economic outlook suck up as much thuggery as old white men can sell to them, all before they have a chance to learn the Tooth Fairy isn't real. Things won't change until that changes.

Z-clipped: lohphat: Z-clipped: lohphat: Shaggy_C: It's not a skin colour thing it is a poverty thing. Anyone who puts race at the forefront of the issue is missing the point.

I would say it's more of a culture problem. If you embrace violence and misogyny and reject education you're not going the break the cycle of poverty that encourages.

A culture of misogyny and violence? If this nonsense were true, there would be an epidemic of Republican-on-Republican murder.

By far, the biggest factor in violent crime rates is poverty.

The slums of Rio and Calcutta contain the poorest of the poor. Yes, there's violence, but not at the same scale as in the US's poor population.

You've got to be kidding with this shiat.  Brazil is one of the top 20 countries in the world in homicide rate.  They have about 8 times the number of homicides per capita that the US has, much of it gang-related.  They also happen to be one of the few developed countries in the world with a higher Gini coefficient than the US.   Have you ever actually  been to Rio, or did you just pull this out of your ass?  Yes, the rate there dropped recently, but it's on its way back up again.  This is just an idiotic example.

India has a slightly lower homicide rate than we do, but they also have a MUCH lower Gini coefficient.  Calcutta happens to have an unusually low crime rate, even for India, but the fact that outlying data exists doesn't make what I said wrong.  Poverty (especially relative poverty) is generally the largest factor in crime rates.  Combating poverty is the most efficient solution to the problem.

The Gini coefficient is not a measure of poverty, it's a measure of wealth inequality.  Two countries can have the same GCo, but have very different standards of living.

Once again: poverty is not the main factor driving crime rates.

tenpoundsofcheese: untaken_name: tenpoundsofcheese: Z-clipped: Assistance and education for poor and disadvantaged people (of all colours) would benefit everyone in the long run.

Yeah, maybe we should have a law that says that everyone gets a free K-12 education.

Free? It's funny how we can spend more money per child than any other country on Earth to provide them a free education. And by "funny", I mean "it's not free".

duh...I never implied that the teachers weren't getting paid or the buildings were building themselves.

you don't have to pay to have your child educated.

Some people pay a lot of taxes to cover those costs and may have no kids, some people pay nothing and may have 2 kids.

College motherfarker, did you go to it?

/why am I replying to this troll?

GF named my left testicle thundercles: if i recall correctly from the bureau of justice statistics ,  about 50% of all murder victims and murders are black, but blacks are 13% of the overall population.

And yet it's the racist court systems fault that there are so many blacks in prison... The willful disconnect that some people show is amazing to me.

This was twenty-five years ago.  And pretty much the only thing that's changed since then is that kids are jacking iPhones from each other now instead of gold chains.

tenpoundsofcheese: Stop being such a racist by stereotyping people.
  no one is buying that, here's another sherm telling us it's all not real... let me tell you, racism is real, disaffection is real, and there is nothing about our capitalist system that is interested in raising educated minorities. Ahem,too educatedminorities.  I'm not for changing capitalism, i'm for using government to change the equation of capitalism and make dark-side psychology less profitable.. you know, taxing entertainment more, education less, all the good stuff we should be doing while repubs. scream for lower taxes, period, just to illustrate how misguided their understanding of the value of government actually is. Someone tells you disadvantageous situations aren't really happening, you can feel free to ignore them; they dont have knowledge, they've onlygiven up.

This is an old story 10lb, not a new one. Tune in.

lamecomedian: Z-clipped: lohphat: Z-clipped: lohphat: Shaggy_C: It's not a skin colour thing it is a poverty thing. Anyone who puts race at the forefront of the issue is missing the point.

I would say it's more of a culture problem. If you embrace violence and misogyny and reject education you're not going the break the cycle of poverty that encourages.

A culture of misogyny and violence? If this nonsense were true, there would be an epidemic of Republican-on-Republican murder.

By far, the biggest factor in violent crime rates is poverty.

The slums of Rio and Calcutta contain the poorest of the poor. Yes, there's violence, but not at the same scale as in the US's poor population.

You've got to be kidding with this shiat.  Brazil is one of the top 20 countries in the world in homicide rate.  They have about 8 times the number of homicides per capita that the US has, much of it gang-related.  They also happen to be one of the few developed countries in the world with a higher Gini coefficient than the US.   Have you ever actually  been to Rio, or did you just pull this out of your ass?  Yes, the rate there dropped recently, but it's on its way back up again.  This is just an idiotic example.

India has a slightly lower homicide rate than we do, but they also have a MUCH lower Gini coefficient.  Calcutta happens to have an unusually low crime rate, even for India, but the fact that outlying data exists doesn't make what I said wrong.  Poverty (especially relative poverty) is generally the largest factor in crime rates.  Combating poverty is the most efficient solution to the problem.

The Gini coefficient is not a measure of poverty, it's a measure of wealth inequality.  Two countries can have the same GCo, but have very different standards of living.

Once again: poverty is not the main factor driving crime rates.

Yes, I know what Gini represents. Wealth disparity is germane to the topic.

Also, news articles that say "it's cold today, so global warning is a myth" are no substitute for peer-reviewed studies. I'd link, but I'm on my mobile and it's a pain. A quick search on google scholar for "poverty crime rates" will show a preponderance of data to support what I'm saying.

Poverty is certainly not the only factor in crime rates, but the two are too strongly correlated to ignore. (Unless of course you have an axe to grind, and don't care about reality.) Your flat denial that they are related is intellectually dubious at best.

GF named my left testicle thundercles: i dont know the answers or the reasons. i honestly dont. but certainly there are communities that need alot of help.

There needs to be an internal cultural shift within those communities. Until that happens nothing of significance will ever change. Throwing money and resources at the problem won't work until that cultural shift happens.Guys like the one in TFA know this and are having to resort to shock tactics in order to try and get people to listen to the message.

olddinosaur: Should have earned the HERO tag.

Blacks killing blacks have been the major source of death in the black community for decades, yet any attempt to rectify it is immediately dubbed "racist!"

People who offer common sense solutions like Star Parker and the Rev. Jesse Petersen preach to their own choirs, while people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton get rich peddling hate.

Go figure.

Mentioning the elephant in the room is totally unacceptable.

I'm going to dress as a whigga Crip to denounce white on white crime. White victims of white murderers are the largest murder victim group in America. Notify the media!

tinfoil-hat maggie: pete1729: tinfoil-hat maggie: Also I would just like to leave the story of a white great uncle in Texas here. He was a gambler and a drunk from all accounts and one night he hears a noise outside and wakes up in his booze soaked haze. He peers out the window and sees white sheets outside, and just knows the Klan has come to get him so he loads his shotgun, opens the door and fires into his wifes/girlfriends sheets that were on the cloths line drying.

That's a good story.

Thanks :D
/Family history is weird. Awesome.

Who wants to be related to a bunch of boring people.

GUTSU: I believe that the government should be smaller rather than larger. The Government farks up far more than it actually helps.

It's nice that you believe it, but can you prove it?

Germany has a very strong government; Kosovo, a very weak one.  In which land do people have a better quality of life?

tenpoundsofcheese: you don't have to pay to have your child educated.

No, you're right. I can't pay to have my child educated, because I don't have one. However, I can (and do) pay to "educate" the children of others. It may be free to you, if you're a scum-sucking drain on society, but it isn't free to me, even though I can't use it. It isn't so much that I'm forced to pay at gunpoint; it's that the kids are not being educated even though we spend the most money per child in the world. That's what really burns me up. It's all being soaked away by administrators and, in some places, half or more of the "graduates" can't even read the discussion we're having.

poot_rootbeer: GUTSU

is full of shiat.

All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans has the government ever done for us?

/ always look on the bright side of life, etc.

poot_rootbeer: GUTSU: I believe that the government should be smaller rather than larger. The Government farks up far more than it actually helps.

It's nice that you believe it, but can you prove it?

Germany has a very strong government; Kosovo, a very weak one.  In which land do people have a better quality of life?

Cambodia under Pol Pot had a very strong government. Ancient Greece had a very weak one. In which setting would YOU rather live?

fat boy: [i.imgur.com image 481x270]

Nah, that's a few seconds too late.

untaken_name: Cambodia under Pol Pot had a very strong government. Ancient Greece had a very weak one. In which setting would YOU rather live?

Don't mistake a forceful government for a strong one.  Strong governments don't kill off 1/4 of their population and get ousted after three years.

/and weak governments don't conquer the Persian Empire.

Z-clipped: tenpoundsofcheese: Z-clipped: Assistance and education for poor and disadvantaged people (of all colours) would benefit everyone in the long run.

Yeah, maybe we should have a law that says that everyone gets a free K-12 education.

Yeah, because clearly that's sufficient.

You don't know fark all about what kids have to deal with to get through  K-12 in low income areas, so shut your trolling piehole.  The number of poor black kids with twice your IQ that end up in jail because they had to sell drugs to eat would blow your tiny, stupid mind.

Yes, they had to sell drugs ... because you know, running a paper route or doing household chores for neighbors is never an option in the inner city.  What ignorant piece of the US did you pop out of?

Nobody "has" to sell drugs ... they sell drugs because working for $4.95/hour at the local Mickey Ds isn't an option for the weak and the lazy.  However, give those same lazy assholes a .40ACP and some smack and they become kings of the streets.

Hood rats, the whole lot of them ... it's just pure laziness and greed and lack of strong family ties and work ethic.  At least the Irish and the Italians eventually realized they had to WORK themselves out of the ghettos ...

ZeroCorpse: The difference is why the Klan killed Black men. And it's all the difference in the world.

Is it? Is it really?  Because there is a whole lot of hate in those crimes as well, and in both cases the victims do stay dead.

seadoo2006: Z-clipped: tenpoundsofcheese: Z-clipped: Assistance and education for poor and disadvantaged people (of all colours) would benefit everyone in the long run.

Yeah, maybe we should have a law that says that everyone gets a free K-12 education.

Yeah, because clearly that's sufficient.

You don't know fark all about what kids have to deal with to get through  K-12 in low income areas, so shut your trolling piehole.  The number of poor black kids with twice your IQ that end up in jail because they had to sell drugs to eat would blow your tiny, stupid mind.

Yes, they had to sell drugs ... because you know, running a paper route or doing household chores for neighbors is never an option in the inner city.  What ignorant piece of the US did you pop out of?

Nobody "has" to sell drugs ... they sell drugs because working for $4.95/hour at the local Mickey Ds isn't an option for the weak and the lazy.  However, give those same lazy assholes a .40ACP and some smack and they become kings of the streets.

Hood rats, the whole lot of them ... it's just pure laziness and greed and lack of strong family ties and work ethic.  At least the Irish and the Italians eventually realized they had to WORK themselves out of the ghettos ...

A paper route. Right. Why don't you just say "I've never set foot in a real city in my pampered suburban life"?

Jesus farking christ.

When you're 10 years old and your mother doesn't buy groceries because she's too busy getting high, and the dealer down the street will pay you $50 a day to run errands, you're going to turn that money down so you can deliver non-existent papers to non-existent customers for $15 bucks a week? You have no idea what these kids' lives are like. No farking concept. By the time they can get legally hired at McDonalds, most inner city kids already know that that shiat's a scam, and that the deck is stacked against them.

Snapper Carr: They would have killed more but they always had trouble seeing out of those hoods

[i.imgur.com image 500x281]

I know the movie was trying to be silly in parts, but it was set in 1858-9 and the damned klan wasn't even started then. Ans what's with them being in the Rockies and then the next day or so being in Tennessee and then right after being in the Rockies again? Silly.

lohphat: Did the poor Irish, Italian, and Jewish ghettos of NY in the early 20th century have this level of violence and misogeny?

20th? Not as much. 19th? hell yes.

Lsherm: I've been hella drunk before, but never once have I been so drunk I thought the Klan was coming to get me.  I usually got paranoid about house mice.  I hate mice.

You will enjoy this, trust me

Z-clipped: By far, the biggest factor in violent crime rates is poverty.

You know who else grew up dirt poor in a shack? Abraham Lincoln.

WeenerGord: Z-clipped: By far, the biggest factor in violent crime rates is poverty.

You know who else grew up dirt poor in a shack? Abraham Lincoln.

Bill Clinton and Brack Obama didn't exactly start off with a silver spoon either, just to keep some modern relevance. Poverty isn't a reason, it's an excuse and a bad one at that.

Z-clipped: You've got to be kidding with this shiat.  Brazil is one of the top 20 countries in the world in homicide rate.  They have about 8 times the number of homicides per capita that the US has, much of it gang-related.  They also happen to be one of the few developed countries in the world with a higher Gini coefficient than the US.


Black population becomes the majority in Brazil

Lsherm: Bastard Toadflax: Black people kill more black people than do left-handed white people named Calvin.

True fact.

I had to, apologies to the thread:

[img13.imageshack.us image 530x350]


Lsherm got his Kids in the hall reference wrong, and it's a fact.

/I gotta dig up the show and watch it again now, that's also a fact.

Z-clipped: You don't know fark all about what kids have to deal with to get through  K-12 in low income areas, so shut your trolling piehole.  The number of poor black kids with twice your IQ that end up in jail because they had to sell drugs to eat would blow your tiny, stupid mind.



Z-clipped: When you're 10 years old and your mother doesn't buy groceries because she's too busy getting high, and the dealer down the street will pay you $50 a day to run errands, you're going to turn that money down so you can deliver non-existent papers to non-existent customers for $15 bucks a week? You have no idea what these kids' lives are like

And how the fark is yo momma gettin stoned, the white man's fault? Know what it's gonna take to change? Y'all have to stop blamin the white man for every damn thing that the black man does, and take responsibility fo ya own shiat, and start actin right.

Do you understand the words that are comin out of my mouth?

The entire article in 34 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=WFY2kJ96jNY

WeenerGord: Z-clipped: By far, the biggest factor in violent crime rates is poverty.

You know who else grew up dirt poor in a shack? Abraham Lincoln.

Yeah, that's a myth.  Lincoln's dad Thomas was actually a pretty wealthy man when he (Abe) was born.  He just had some financial difficulties during Abe's childhood.  Lincoln's mom got sick and died when he was a kid, and he certainly didn't come from a wealthy family, but he wasn't ever "dirt poor".

WeenerGord: And how the fark is yo momma gettin stoned, the white man's fault?

You idiots really need to let this shiat go.  Nobody's blaming you personally for anything, or asking your well-fed ass to "feel guilty" .  Get off the cross.  I'm talking about lowering crime and strengthening the American economy by making education available to everyone who has something to contribute.

You see this?:



Yeah.  Fark those people.   It's time they paid their fair share.

Lee Jackson Beauregard: 7) Gut the public schools. You don't need an education to work a McJob, and teachers are Union Thugs (except when the NRA wants to arm them).
8) Hike taxes on people who work for a living. Cut them on the plutocrats. David Koch's Mercedes is six months old and he wants a new one.
9) Abolish the minimum wage.
10) Wonder why so many people break the law instead of starving quietly, or getting a McJob for take-home pay that won't take them home.
11) zOMG CRIME WAVE!
12) Zillion-dollar Small Government® contracts for private prisons and purveyors of riot gear.
13) No ??? here, baby.
14) Profit!

15)

ZeroCorpse: The difference is why the Klan killed Black men. And it's all the difference in the world.

Yeah, killing someone because of the colors they wear is so much more understandable

GUTSU: Now isn't this a touchy subject? Why are there a disproportionate number of homicides in the black community? Is it The Man keeping them down? A culture that objectifies women and praises violence? shiatty living conditions? Single mothers? Fluoride in the water?

I imagine the racism still endemic in hiring practises is part of it (see repeated academic studies that show just putting a "black" or "hispanic" name on exactly the same resume causes it to be half as likely to be called to interview).

PsiChick: How about 'what the fark is that first part of your first sentence supposed to mean?'. He's not saying the Klan were good, he's saying maybe his culture should stop trying to kill each other, which doesn't have anything to do with history, and I fail to see what it has to do with 'reality being politically incorrect'.

Let me try to spell out what I said so that you can think on it more ~ "History and reality are politically incorrect".

The KKK is very politically incorrect, in fact they are considered one of the great boogy man's of history (they were a terrorist organization). The journalist risked their professional career, personal safety and standing in their community to make a point about adding perspective about this (I give the journalist a lot of credit).

The politically incorrect fact is that the blacks threaten, inflict violence upon, and kill far more blacks, and do so on a far more routine basis than the KKK ever did. Saying that fact is something that can end many peoples careers, yet until people address this source of violence it will remain. The journalist wanted to reduce to black on black on violent crime and risked everything in attempt to do so and they deserve credit accordingly.

I've spelled this out as much as I can for you and I stand behind my statement. "History and reality are politically incorrect".

lohphat: tinfoil-hat maggie: lohphat: tinfoil-hat maggie: Violence in poverty stricken areas imagine that, who would have thought.

Did the poor Irish, Italian, and Jewish ghettos of NY in the early 20th century have this level of violence and misogeny? Yeah there was the Mob but it even they had their standards of behavior.

I think a big difference is education, I mean, those communities were already established and with a lot of European middle class. Also there was no war on drugs which really brings up the violence.

Exactly -- that's why I don't it's poverty as the root cause per se as there are many cultures stuck in poverty who don't have the level of violence at the level the US black culture does -- honor killings of females notwithstanding. The War on Some Drugs has a lot to do with it: The risk/reward of big money when traditional paths to success aren't readily available has a huge impact.

Lead?  Maybe it's a combination of some of the most crushing poverty in the first world and the fact that, being first world, we've been pretty continuously poisoning ourselves, particularly in the cities, for about 75 years now.

wildcardjack: anti-drug laws enacted by Klansmen in the 1920's and 30's

Just a second here, Sparky.  I just heard a story about this on NPR.

It's the Rockefeller Drug Laws that are the worst, signed into law in 1973.  It's the "let's get tough on crime" attitude...madatory 15yr (to life) sentencing, even on the first offense.  These laws have put a lotta people in jail serving disproportionate sentences, and thus a whole lotta families have suffered.  Oh, and statistically speaking...the two demographics that seem to have a lot more convictions than others are...?  If you guessed Black and Hispanic, you win the prize.

And last time I checked, Nelson Rockefeller was not associated with the KKK.

poot_rootbeer: untaken_name: Cambodia under Pol Pot had a very strong government. Ancient Greece had a very weak one. In which setting would YOU rather live?

Don't mistake a forceful government for a strong one.  Strong governments don't kill off 1/4 of their population and get ousted after three years.

/and weak governments don't conquer the Persian Empire.

Oh, so your personal definition of "strong" involves longevity and is the one everyone else should use. Well, ok. See how well that works out for you in life, son.

seadoo2006: Z-clipped: tenpoundsofcheese: Z-clipped: Assistance and education for poor and disadvantaged people (of all colours) would benefit everyone in the long run.

Yeah, maybe we should have a law that says that everyone gets a free K-12 education.

Yeah, because clearly that's sufficient.

You don't know fark all about what kids have to deal with to get through  K-12 in low income areas, so shut your trolling piehole.  The number of poor black kids with twice your IQ that end up in jail because they had to sell drugs to eat would blow your tiny, stupid mind.

Yes, they had to sell drugs ... because you know, running a paper route or doing household chores for neighbors is never an option in the inner city.  What ignorant piece of the US did you pop out of?

Nobody "has" to sell drugs ... they sell drugs because working for $4.95/hour at the local Mickey Ds isn't an option for the weak and the lazy.  However, give those same lazy assholes a .40ACP and some smack and they become kings of the streets.

Hood rats, the whole lot of them ... it's just pure laziness and greed and lack of strong family ties and work ethic.  At least the Irish and the Italians eventually realized they had to WORK themselves out of the ghettos ...

Clueless farkhead is clueless

Z-clipped: seadoo2006: Z-clipped: tenpoundsofcheese: Z-clipped: Assistance and education for poor and disadvantaged people (of all colours) would benefit everyone in the long run.

Yeah, maybe we should have a law that says that everyone gets a free K-12 education.

Yeah, because clearly that's sufficient.

You don't know fark all about what kids have to deal with to get through  K-12 in low income areas, so shut your trolling piehole.  The number of poor black kids with twice your IQ that end up in jail because they had to sell drugs to eat would blow your tiny, stupid mind.

Yes, they had to sell drugs ... because you know, running a paper route or doing household chores for neighbors is never an option in the inner city.  What ignorant piece of the US did you pop out of?

Nobody "has" to sell drugs ... they sell drugs because working for $4.95/hour at the local Mickey Ds isn't an option for the weak and the lazy.  However, give those same lazy assholes a .40ACP and some smack and they become kings of the streets.

Hood rats, the whole lot of them ... it's just pure laziness and greed and lack of strong family ties and work ethic.  At least the Irish and the Italians eventually realized they had to WORK themselves out of the ghettos ...

A paper route. Right. Why don't you just say "I've never set foot in a real city in my pampered suburban life"?

Jesus farking christ.

When you're 10 years old and your mother doesn't buy groceries because she's too busy getting high, and the dealer down the street will pay you $50 a day to run errands, you're going to turn that money down so you can deliver non-existent papers to non-existent customers for $15 bucks a week? You have no idea what these kids' lives are like. No farking concept. By the time they can get legally hired at McDonalds, most inner city kids already know that that shiat's a scam, and that the deck is stacked against them.

I delivered The Plain Dealer in inner-city Cleveland, not the suburbs... had three apartment buildings my brother and I used to do every morning and totaled about 85 subscribers.  What?? Don't you think people in the city get a newspaper? Jesus farking Christ are you dense ...

lohphat: ihateyousomuch.jpg

Z-clipped: You idiots really need to let this shiat go.  Nobody's blaming you personally for anything, or asking your well-fed ass to "feel guilty" .  Get off the cross.  I'm talking about lowering crime and strengthening the American economy by making education available to everyone who has something to contribute.

You see this?:Yeah.  Fark those people.   It's time they paid their fair share.


Yes you did blame whites, you s.o.b. And then you continue to blame whites, and furthermore, attempt to guilt and extort even more money from the people who have it. Again, it aint the white man's faults, if, as you claim, yo momma was too stoned to adequately parent you. And it aint because you had no money  either, if yo momma was spending enough money on drugs to be passed out on the couch all day, and if you was gettin 50 dollas per "errand" that you local drug dealer sent you on.

It aint the white mans fault, its you.

It's YOU