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(The Weekly Standard)   OK, Pope coming out now   (weeklystandard.com) divider line 16
    More: Misc, Twitter, Sistine Chapel, Catholic News Service, pope, Brazilian Cardinal Odilo Scherer, Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi  
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15255 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Feb 2013 at 10:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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rpm
2013-02-18 12:02:43 AM
2 votes:

cptjeff: When you are answering to a law rather than the whims of a king, a law that outlasts the king or any person temporarily filling an office- that's really the foundation of western civilization, and it originated with the Catholic Church


Dissaproves
upload.wikimedia.org
2013-02-17 11:27:55 PM
2 votes:

Doktor_Zhivago: skinink: Because heaven forbid the world finds out thru the social media that the Vatican will be led by another Nazi sympathizer.

It's pretty sad when the founding institution of western civilization is reduced to ex-nazis and child molesters....  They used to be corrupt in a way that meant something man!  Simony, indulgences, burnings at the stake for witchcraft and profit!  It's just lame stuff now...


No, the Roman Empire is the founding institution of Western civilization - the Church is just the parasite that rode the Empire* into the ground, then declared itself the Mostest Important Thang Evvvaaa!


* Interesting thing:  when we talk about the decadence of Rome, most of that was in the 000s and early 100s - the height of Rome's power, not its twilight years.  The weakening and fall came when the Christians started running things - puritainization, not decadence killed the Roman Empire
2013-02-17 10:32:29 PM
2 votes:
as long as they're handing out restrictions maybe doing something about not molesting the children would be a good idea.
2013-02-18 06:59:40 AM
1 votes:
Regarding the idea that the Catholic Church created western culture.Personally I wouldn't give it sole credit, but I think it deserves at least partial credit.

The Roman Catholic church as we now know it is the modern remnant of the State Church of the Roman Empire, after Christianization (which started the Empire on the road to ruin, along with brain damage and madness from the lead poisoning from their plumbing).

When the Empire fell, the Church was the only institution of the Empire to survive.  To the ends of the known (at the time) world, that was what was left to preserve the culture of the Roman Empire. . .which basically meant preserving the use of Latin, some tiny remnants of Imperial government, and some sense of continuity.

After the crowning of Charlemagne by the Pope, the precedent was set, the Pope was a Kingmaker, and the de-facto Emperor of the former Empire (and Europe) in that he chose the Kings and they (theoretically) reported to him.  His temporal power was circumscibed, but at least in theory it was vast. . .like many Emperors.  This power over Kings in the Christian world was basically unchallenged until Henry VIII decided to make an issue of it, with the direct power of the Church already under attack from the existing Protestant movement.

With the Papal States and the Pope having direct rule of the Italian penninsula around Rome from shortly after the fall of the Empire to the 1870's, the Pope could be seen as the most direct continuation of the Roman Empire (with the College of Cardinals as the continuation of the Roman Senate).  With the Pope the elected sovereign ruler of (a portion of) Rome, the concept of him being the remnant of the Roman Emperor still stands.

(I've only got a B.A. in History, so I'm no professional historian, but religious history and theology is an interest of mine)
2013-02-18 01:25:28 AM
1 votes:

cptjeff: The key is that in a system that honors the rule of law, the law can be imposed against the sovereign. As funny as it is to think about now with the despicable and unaccountable behavior of the church leadership, the Catholic Church pioneered that one.


2 Samuel, 12:1-14.

Jews got there so far ahead of the Church, they lapped its sorry ass

.

cptjeff: As funny as it is to think about now with the despicable and unaccountable behavior of the church leadership, the Catholic Church pioneered that one.


You realize you just undercut the ever-living hell out of your argument.  I can't think of a single sitting Pope who bowed to the dictates of canon law if it did not suit his whim.  Lots who ignored it with merry abandon, a couple who changed it to legitimize their personal kinks - but not one who said "Okay, you got me. Fair cop."*

Also, I don't exactly look to a poli-sci guy for my history.  When I was in grad school (for history, natch), we sneered at those guys, because they were wonderful at molding facts to fit theories, and not the other way around, like you are supposed to.  So, as the history guy (married to the history gal), who teaches history to college kids, I would kindly ask you to present a historian as your proof - because my wife is still agog, and she kinda scares me like that.

* Or, however you say that in Latin
2013-02-18 01:03:29 AM
1 votes:

ciberido: Some part of my mind is trying to imagine what  Niki Minaj and Bruno Mars' Twitter feeds look like.

The part of my mind more concerned with self-preservation is telling the first part to STFU.


Listen to that second voice.

You really don't want to know.

I feel like I should be ringing a bell and shouting out "Unclean" every couple of minutes after just looking up the list of "most followed tweeters".

I'm sure actually reading any on their tweets would ruin me utterly.
2013-02-18 12:43:43 AM
1 votes:

quatchi: The pope himself recently Joined Twitter last year, and now has over 1.5 million followers.

So somewhere Between Niki Minaj and Bruno Mars then?


Some part of my mind is trying to imagine what  Niki Minaj and Bruno Mars' Twitter feeds look like.

The part of my mind more concerned with self-preservation is telling the first part to STFU.
rpm
2013-02-18 12:31:36 AM
1 votes:

phalamir: Yeah, but Abrahamic, so closer to Dominican Cock-Swallower's theses.  He could always claim The Code can't be Western, but would have a harder time claiming Judaism was irrelevant to the Church (and had the idea first)


If Hammurabi isn't western, neither is Moses. The areas are pretty damn close geographically.
2013-02-18 12:28:54 AM
1 votes:

clipperbox: OK, Pope coming out now

[thelostclassics.com image 850x531]


Creepy, crazy movie was creepy and crazy.
2013-02-18 12:28:03 AM
1 votes:

rpm: phalamir: rpm: cptjeff: When you are answering to a law rather than the whims of a king, a law that outlasts the king or any person temporarily filling an office- that's really the foundation of western civilization, and it originated with the Catholic Church

Dissaproves
[upload.wikimedia.org image 160x219]

Hell,

[www.imoses.com image 272x204]
disapproves

That was centuries later than Hammurabi.


Yeah, but Abrahamic, so closer to Dominican Cock-Swallower's theses.  He could always claim The Code can't be Western, but would have a harder time claiming Judaism was irrelevant to the Church (and had the idea first)
rpm
2013-02-18 12:16:40 AM
1 votes:

phalamir: rpm: cptjeff: When you are answering to a law rather than the whims of a king, a law that outlasts the king or any person temporarily filling an office- that's really the foundation of western civilization, and it originated with the Catholic Church

Dissaproves
[upload.wikimedia.org image 160x219]

Hell,

[www.imoses.com image 272x204]
disapproves


That was centuries later than Hammurabi.
2013-02-18 12:12:35 AM
1 votes:

rpm: cptjeff: When you are answering to a law rather than the whims of a king, a law that outlasts the king or any person temporarily filling an office- that's really the foundation of western civilization, and it originated with the Catholic Church

Dissaproves
[upload.wikimedia.org image 160x219]


Hell,

www.imoses.com
disapproves
2013-02-17 11:38:48 PM
1 votes:

phalamir: * Interesting thing: when we talk about the decadence of Rome, most of that was in the 000s and early 100s - the height of Rome's power, not its twilight years. The weakening and fall came when the Christians started running things - puritainization, not decadence killed the Roman Empire


It's a tough argument, one way or the other, and most of what we know about ancient Rome under the Emperors is from about 00 to 200 AD; after that, the historical record dries up.  It's why Caligula and Nero get so much coverage when talking about "The Fall of Rome" even though the empire kept going for another 300 years.

And in a way, decadence did lead to their fall: their reliance on slave labor meant they never fully developed the labor-saving devices they had the technology for which would have helped them advance as a civilization.
2013-02-17 10:41:45 PM
1 votes:

skinink: Because heaven forbid the world finds out thru the social media that the Vatican will be led by another Nazi sympathizer.


It's pretty sad when the founding institution of western civilization is reduced to ex-nazis and child molesters....  They used to be corrupt in a way that meant something man!  Simony, indulgences, burnings at the stake for witchcraft and profit!  It's just lame stuff now...
2013-02-17 09:38:56 PM
1 votes:

revrendjim: This is a great headline that needs to be used when a new Pope is actually chosen. Also needs an "is".


meh. headline has been done before:

Okay pope is coming out
2013-02-17 09:30:20 PM
1 votes:
This is a great headline that needs to be used when a new Pope is actually chosen. Also needs an "is".
 
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