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(Berkshire Eagle)   Massachusetts DA warns school children that he will turn them into unemployable, ostracized sex offenders if they get caught sexting   (berkshireeagle.com ) divider line
    More: PSA, Massachusetts DA, sex offenders, child pornography, Computer Crime  
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6033 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Feb 2013 at 3:18 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-17 03:58:05 PM  

Ed Grubermann: potterydove: Aren't children the protected class of child pornography laws?  I'm not quite understanding how you could charge the victim of the crime with the crime...

Ever hear of that 13-year old girl and the twelve-year old boy in Utah being charged with felony child molestation charges because he got her pregnant? No, really. Both were charged. The state supreme court later tossed the convictions out.



Convictions?? fark that's terrifying... never should have gone to trial, but for there to actually be convictions show's a complete lack of understanding of sexuality, human nature, common sense, and the law.
 
2013-02-17 03:59:15 PM  
Stopping teens from "having sex" has got to be the definition of futility.
 
2013-02-17 04:00:37 PM  

Flagg99: That's no argument to keep the current law.


To be clear,  I don't advocate keeping the law as it is currently.  I do advocate being careful in setting up an alternative.

Flagg99: You should always be exempt from possessing photos of yourself, at any age.


Agree, however, this is really more about what gets prosecuted by overs zealous DAs.   I think we know how that goes.  Tough on crime image and all...
 
2013-02-17 04:00:42 PM  

Flagg99: Gergesa: Flagg99: but still a crime to posses if you're over 18

problems with this:  What if some 15 year old for whatever reason decides to ruin your life by emailing you pictures of themselves.  We have seen stories on fark where someone has just made up rape accusations because they were pissed with a teacher about a grade.  This doesn't seem all that far fetched.  If it is strict liability 15 year olds suddenly have a pretty powerful weapon against whomever they don't like that is above 18.

Additionally, what if they are pictures of yourself?  As soon as you hit that age threshold suddenly you are a criminal.

Less problems with this than the current system. The blackmail example/false rape accusations - yes, that happens, and it will have to be sorted out in court. Some people will always abuse the system. That's no argument to keep the current law.

You should always be exempt from possessing photos of yourself, at any age. The same way my grandma should not be charged for that photo of me streaking through the backyard when I was 5.


Exactly. There are pictures of me at about 4 years old sitting naked in a big old sink full of water. How does one determine if it's child porn or a wholesome, cute family photo? I'm certain several DAs out there could have my parents prosecuted for our family album if they stuck to the letter of the law.

The laws are poorly written, and the intent has been lost. FIX IT.
 
2013-02-17 04:03:08 PM  

Krieghund: And yes, DAs and judges should use discretion when these kinds of cases come up




But only for rich or famous offenders.
 
2013-02-17 04:05:31 PM  
Overzealous ADA = smokescreen?
 
2013-02-17 04:13:37 PM  
Unemployable?  By the time they're old enough to enter the workforce, Massachussetts will have systematically iradicated all incentive for working.

www.socialistparty-usa.org
 
2013-02-17 04:22:43 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Okay, who let this Pennsyltucky asshat into the Commonwealth?


Massachusetts was founded by Puritans.  "Banned in Boston" used to be a selling point everywhere else.
 
2013-02-17 04:26:26 PM  
Are they going to be tried as adults for producing and distributing nude pictures of themselves?

If so, this raises the paradoxical scenario where a child is tried as an adult for something that would not be an offence if they actually were an adult.

At which point as semblance of rationality assplodes.
 
2013-02-17 04:27:17 PM  
All, not as...

/ must remember to preview/proofread
// especially after a couple of Irish
 
2013-02-17 04:29:35 PM  

Flagg99: Ed Grubermann: potterydove: Aren't children the protected class of child pornography laws?  I'm not quite understanding how you could charge the victim of the crime with the crime...

Ever hear of that 13-year old girl and the twelve-year old boy in Utah being charged with felony child molestation charges because he got her pregnant? No, really. Both were charged. The state supreme court later tossed the convictions out.


Convictions?? fark that's terrifying... never should have gone to trial, but for there to actually be convictions show's a complete lack of understanding of sexuality, human nature, common sense, and the law.


It should have gone to Family Services, not to the police. The problem is that Utah passed a law making it illegal for anyone, regardless of age, to have sex with someone under 14. Like most of these badly written laws, they didn't think their cunning plan all the way through.
 
2013-02-17 04:35:45 PM  
Up next in Massachusetts? Witch burning.
 
2013-02-17 04:38:16 PM  
But kids carrying assault rifles is still not only A-OK but totally kick ass American! YEEEEEEHAWWWWWWW!!!

www.thetruthaboutcars.com
 
2013-02-17 04:42:05 PM  

Erebus1954: Up next in Massachusetts? Witch burning.


The Salem witches were not burned they were hanged (and one was pressed to death)


A FART ON THOMAS PUTNAM
 
2013-02-17 04:44:39 PM  
it is truly sick and twisted to compare the innocent hijinx of children to pornography. to send out the message that an image of your natural self is bad and negative clearly illustrates how morally corrupt some peoples minds are.

God forbid this fellow finds out 7th graders shower together after Gym class, his farking head will asplode.
 
2013-02-17 04:45:10 PM  
Welcome to the United Police States of America
 
2013-02-17 04:53:02 PM  

Kimothy: jake_lex: Weaver95: because one mistake when you're young and dumb should destroy your life forever, right?

The whole notion of there being a juvenile court system where kids who make dumb mistakes can be punished in a way that still gives them a chance later when they grow up is being completely dismantled.

When I have on my tinfoil hat, I connect that to the growing for-profit prison industry, but lately I'm thinking that more often when I don't have it on as well.

http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/school-prison-pipeline

It really exists. I've been teaching for 15 years and I can attest personally that putting police officers in schools and having for-profit prisons has ruined many, many lives.

We used to get suspended for a stupid fist fight. These kids get arrested, charged with assault, and then tried as adults. It's disgusting, it truly is.


At times it's ok to yuk it up and pass it off as kids being kids.  Sometimes however it is a very clear indication of one's destiny to be a sociopath.

Googling "teen beats teen to death" yields  452,000,000  results.  I was going to post some links, maybe pics, but eh, I don't want to depress myself any more than I already am.
[As a comparison, "fark" yields 75 million]

I'm all for second chances, but slaps on the wrist won't cut it for many youth who are already on a bad road.
/not that our prison systems are any good at all
//though if it keeps them away from civilized people it's better than just letting the violent do as they please
______________
As to the article.  A little scare tactic to keep them from harm, even if it's just their pics being posted on the internet, no problem, imo.

Each case should be judged on a case by case basis, however, as with all things.  Don't criminalize the pic taker for a nude pic, just the distributor after that.  The more malicious the initial recipient when he distributes(IE revenge sendings/posting), the harsher the punishment.

Permanent marks though?  Maybe 16+, expungable completely after 5 years, probation and community service for 1 year (just shotgunning, not saying it HAS to be that way, rough example only).  Kids of that approximate age, contrary to popular belief, are capable of knowing right from wrong and legal from illegal.
 
2013-02-17 04:53:29 PM  
DA=Dumb Asshole. Gotta please all the prudes, because they are the ones that vote these days.

Sex is DURRRRR-DEEEEEE
 
2013-02-17 04:57:38 PM  

TV's Vinnie: But kids carrying assault rifles is still not only A-OK but totally kick ass American! YEEEEEEHAWWWWWWW!!!

[www.thetruthaboutcars.com image 320x235]


Derp. Massachusetts has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation... including an assault weapons ban.
------------------------------------
Massachusetts is a blue state, folks. And this is a blue county in that state. Try all you want to blame the "puritans", but they aren't involved in this one...
 
2013-02-17 05:00:11 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: DAs can do whatever the f*** they want to do in this country, and there's not a d*** thing you do about it. Why do liberals want to centralize all power in the government's hands in this country, with zero accountability? I mean none. At least with corporations and other institutions you have the courts as a last resort, as flawed and in need of reform as that process may be. But a DA, a corrupt cop, the IRS? Bend over and take it, citizen.


Yes clearly the problem here is 'liberals'.
 
2013-02-17 05:15:14 PM  

Tigger: Yes clearly the problem here is 'liberals'.


I just hear constantly on fark from people who believe our government should be in charge of almost everything, and I don't believe that creates a healthy and fair society. Centralizing on a system with no accountability is a recipe for disaster in my view. If you'd like to argue that we should put the blue and red flags down for a bit and figure out a way to make government accountable, hey, I'm down for that.
 
2013-02-17 05:16:07 PM  
My hometown in the news!!!  Jesus I'm glad I moved out of that state. Just a bit south they were the ones with the adolescent "mosquito"  dispersals. Don't get me wrong, the Berkshires are a beautiful place as long as the 2nd homers don't roll over you. Don't even get me started on the bike path to nowhere.I know that guy, and yeah he's into the snowflake protection job. 5 miles north they have shootings about once a week. you'd think he had better things to do
 
2013-02-17 05:24:28 PM  

Flagg99: ModernLuddite: Flagg99: This asshat needs to be out of a job fast. The police can charge someone, but it's his decision to prosecute, and if he thinks this is warranted, then he needs to be tossed out on his ass.

I know someone who was threatened with charges for exactly this reason, in MASS. She was blackmailed when she was underage (she's much older and in college now, so I guess consider her an early test case). The guy threatened her, threatened to hurt her family, and the dipshiat feds got involved (because the perp was across state lines) and in the end, they terrorized her threatening production of CP charges for being blackmailed into taking photos of herself while the guy walked around free.

America has a really sick sense of what is right and wrong when it comes to sex.

Teens have sex, they watch porn, and they take dirty photos. Fix the farking law already and stop ruining lives over a set of tits on a cell phone. Jail the guys forcing girls/guys into this, and leave the kids alone (Hey, prosecutor, leave them kids alone!).

How do you "force" someone to do anything over a computer?

Maybe teach kids to turn the farking thing OFF.

I actually put "threatened to hurt her family" in the original post, so please read next time. She was 12 and fully believed he would show up and hurt them. "Turning it off" wasn't that simple, at least not in her mind. When she got older she reported him and then feds pulled their douchebag act. I felt terrible because I actually encouraged her to report him when she told me/even gave her the link to the ICE website that she used.


Tell me there was the lawsuit from hell when her parents found out...

/Traumatizing victims disgusts me. If I ever considered a career in law enforcement, it would probably be in some kind of internal affairs just because I would dearly love to kick the ass of whoever did that shiat.
 
2013-02-17 05:30:57 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: I just hear constantly on fark from people who believe our government should be in charge of almost everything, and I don't believe that creates a healthy and fair society.


Well, it avoids some problems.  State to State laws about, say, gay marriage.

It is possible for the government to do most of it.  No killing, no stealing, etc.

Cover the big bases as such(the big universal laws as above), and then, stop the states from doing things like "no gays" "no fatties" "let's have  insane alcohol and tobacco taxes" Let bars choose if people get to smoke there, but not hospitals and such, let people buy a large soda, etc.  A very large problem that we're facing now. It would take the federal government to step in and say, "But the fark OUT of their lives, you farking yokel morons!" And we could get over a large part of our social problems.

This social arena where democracy fails, the minority always loses, and everyone is part of a minority when it comes to one ideal or another.  This is precisely the power that should NOT be in the state's hands, yet, this is the majority of what goes on in each state.  Micromanagement of people's lives and hence a reduction of their liberties.


Then work with the state itself to regulate trade and business practices that are unique to that region.  But fair and to the benefit of the US as a whole.

It can be done.  However, it is very unlikely.  I don't the think federal goverment could practice such restraint, however. Our federal government is as prone to asshattery and farkuppery as any state or local government, though they are reigned in a bit more because the whole populace can pressure them.  Don't have that control with states, hence the widely varying laws state to state.
 
2013-02-17 05:54:34 PM  
Fortunately there are strict guidelines that define what can be considered to be pornographic and what is not (Miller test). The second assistant DA needs to learn here that nude and semi-nude do NOT automatically mean pornographic (regardless of age). He sounds like a zealot douche-bag that is just interested in high prosecution numbers rather than justice.

/he needs a different job
//one where he is not interacting with the public
 
2013-02-17 05:54:43 PM  
Or MA parents could talk to their kids and tell them not to be a dumb farks.But suggesting people actually raise their offspring and buy into social accountability is asking too much.
 
2013-02-17 06:18:48 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: I just hear constantly on fark from people who believe our government should be in charge of almost everything


The issue in this case has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, but rather being authoritarian. Which is actually something liberals in general aren't too big on. Come to think of it conservatives aren't either, not that you'd be able to tell by looking at most people who call themselves conservatives these days.
 
2013-02-17 06:25:04 PM  
This country has gone off the farking deep end as far as pornography is concerned.  Yes, children exploited being sexually exploited by adults should be illegal.  High school kids sending their friends naked pictures of themselves not so much.
 
2013-02-17 06:38:01 PM  
Another Puritan Puberty Purge.
Shunning naughty bits since 1620.

The guy should be air dropped into P-Town (Provincetown) on a hot summer day.
It's sort of like the Key West of the north. An "Arts" village.
Great entertainment as you watch him twitch out.
 
2013-02-17 06:49:24 PM  
Let's go back in history a couple hundred years or more.  We as an adult society have paintings and statues of nude or partially nude adults in museums and other public places.  Then there's the men's magazine business that's been around over 50 years.  And, let's not forget strip clubs.    The case could be made that there seems to be a double standard, where we want to hold children to a higher stndard than adults!
 
2013-02-17 06:50:39 PM  

Pincy: This country has gone off the farking deep end as far as pornography is concerned.  Yes, children exploited being sexually exploited by adults should be illegal.  High school kids sending their friends naked pictures of themselves not so much.


Well, now, who is actually preying on the young in this FUBAR?
That is correct, the DA and the "legal system" have made themselves the predators.

Would be BIZZARO WORLD if it were not the coming norm in this New Order.
 
2013-02-17 06:54:49 PM  

85blue: Or MA parents could talk to their kids and tell them not to be a dumb farks.But suggesting people actually raise their offspring and buy into social accountability is asking too much.


And, yet, we all know that some percent of all youth have a rebellious streak where they are determined to do whatever their parents tell them not to do.  I'd guess that's been going on forever.  And these days, it seems young people are more heavily influenced by their friends and popular culture than traditional family upbringing.
 
2013-02-17 06:55:21 PM  

Thunderbox: Welcome to the United Police States of America


There is an amendment for that
 
2013-02-17 07:06:34 PM  
Hey, I'll offer up a solution.  Instead of the police and the legal system trying to control and punish juvenille offenders, why not let the parents deal with their children and be involved in any reprimanding, punishment or restrictions?  Until they are 18, it is the parents' legal responsibility to raise their kids.  Other adults should NOT be in a position to make decisions about somebody else's kids!  Especially, get the local, state and federal government out of the way!
 
2013-02-17 07:07:23 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Tigger: Yes clearly the problem here is 'liberals'.

I just hear constantly on fark from people who believe our government should be in charge of almost everything, and I don't believe that creates a healthy and fair society. Centralizing on a system with no accountability is a recipe for disaster in my view. If you'd like to argue that we should put the blue and red flags down for a bit and figure out a way to make government accountable, hey, I'm down for that.


You just keep on fighting those imaginary Liberals you pretend to see around you.
 
2013-02-17 07:10:03 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Tigger: Yes clearly the problem here is 'liberals'.

I just hear constantly on fark from people who believe our government should be in charge of almost everything, and I don't believe that creates a healthy and fair society. Centralizing on a system with no accountability is a recipe for disaster in my view. If you'd like to argue that we should put the blue and red flags down for a bit and figure out a way to make government accountable, hey, I'm down for that.


Just so long as you realize that the last few republicans you voted into office also worked to increase the size and power of the federal government. You should be just as upset with neoconservatives as you are with liberals.
 
2013-02-17 07:15:20 PM  
The headline describes half the population of Massachusetts.
That's why they're all contractors, painters, roofers or "self-employed".
 
2013-02-17 07:18:18 PM  
and they wonder why anybody who feels wronged for life lashes back at police and prosecuters..
 
2013-02-17 07:19:14 PM  
What nonsense. The school child I'm sexting with right now has two after-school jobs and is likely to be voted Valedictorian in a couple years (when she graduates). Hardly what I'd call "unemployable".

/I'll have a seat over there...
 
2013-02-17 07:31:59 PM  
In the present economy, does that matter much?
 
2013-02-17 07:45:00 PM  

Ed Grubermann: The whole point of child porn laws was to protect children from being sexually exploited by adults. Teens sending pictures of themselves to each-other isn't the same thing. And these assholes know it.

For fark's sake, people need to use their brains.


The reason the law can be abused this way is obvious though. If it were legal for kids to make child porn of themselves, then all true child pornography would be recorded by the victims to skirt the law. The intent was to protect kids from other people, but I think it has mostly led to kids getting arrested for victimless crimes. The most ridiculous that I remember was years back where a teen girl got CP charges for a naked self-portrait sketch she did (because even simulated CP is wrong and evil).
 
2013-02-17 07:50:47 PM  

Ed Grubermann: The whole point of child porn laws was to protect children from being sexually exploited by adults. Teens sending pictures of themselves to each-other isn't the same thing. And these assholes know it.

For fark's sake, people need to use their brains.


You are talking about Massachusetts politicians; that seems to be an oxymoron.
 
2013-02-17 07:53:04 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Tigger: Yes clearly the problem here is 'liberals'.

I just hear constantly on fark from people who believe our government should be in charge of almost everything, and I don't believe that creates a healthy and fair society. Centralizing on a system with no accountability is a recipe for disaster in my view. If you'd like to argue that we should put the blue and red flags down for a bit and figure out a way to make government accountable, hey, I'm down for that.


In theory "government" = "the people". The government, of some sort of other, is going to run everything. You're just choosing whether you want a unified, federal government involved, or a local government, and either way, both of those are supposedly run by your peers and you.

Defeating "government" isn't going to fix ANY of these problems. Change of heart among the populace is the only way. You aren't fighting some other, some vague entity without a face, you're fighting yourself and your own neighbors.
 
2013-02-17 07:57:38 PM  
Because if there's one person you should be afraid of, it's the Second Assistant District Attorney of Berkshire County.

\seriously, Berkshire County has computers?
 
2013-02-17 08:16:59 PM  

Krieghund: Don't shoot the messenger. The DA didn't make the law, he just is supposed to prosecute people that break it.

It's a shiatty law and needs to be changed. And the way to do that is to point out how unfair it is to the children it is supposed to protect.

And yes, DAs and judges should use discretion when these kinds of cases come up. But if you assume good guys will ignore the law, that makes it much less urgent to change it.


Prosecutorial Discretion.

That's the fancy legal term for "The Prosecutor says this law is stupid and against justice, so he's not going to press charges here".
 
2013-02-17 08:35:15 PM  

ennuie: WhoopAssWayne: Tigger: Yes clearly the problem here is 'liberals'.

I just hear constantly on fark from people who believe our government should be in charge of almost everything, and I don't believe that creates a healthy and fair society. Centralizing on a system with no accountability is a recipe for disaster in my view. If you'd like to argue that we should put the blue and red flags down for a bit and figure out a way to make government accountable, hey, I'm down for that.

In theory "government" = "the people". The government, of some sort of other, is going to run everything. You're just choosing whether you want a unified, federal government involved, or a local government, and either way, both of those are supposedly run by your peers and you.

Defeating "government" isn't going to fix ANY of these problems. Change of heart among the populace is the only way. You aren't fighting some other, some vague entity without a face, you're fighting yourself and your own neighbors.


I don't disagree with what you've said.  Yet I'll make a distinction between government and "Big Government."  Because it happened incrementally, I don't know when our government turned into a "Big Government."  And, it is our elected officials who are to blame.   But we have far too many government departments and agencies, with far too many employees.  More importantly, we have way too many unelected people writing policy and setting standards that other regulatory agencies then get to enforce.  We have more  'government' than we need, and certainly more than we can afford.  Despite what some of the (bogus) unemployment numbers are - the actual is above 20% and possibly as high as 25% -  and despite what the stock market is or isn't doing, we are still in "the worst economy since the Great Depression," and whether people realize it or not, we are on the verge of a total economic collapse.  It's not so much if it will happen but when it will happen.  Continued massive government spending aided by continually borrowing and printing more money will definitely have disastrous consequences.  Our currently serving politicians are most definitely not doing anything to make things better.
 
2013-02-17 08:40:42 PM  
Will being on a sex offender list mean that much when everyone is on it.
 
2013-02-17 08:44:01 PM  
The problem... DA's are elected..They have to run on something and that something is "tough on crime".
So they keep a nice chalkboard tally of the number "pervert" arrests that make for a good TV
commercial come election time. DA's need to be appointed, not elected. Then there would be no need
for DA's to have press conferences and grandstand on numbers to keep their job.
 
2013-02-17 08:57:02 PM  

LiteWerk: Despite what some of the (bogus) unemployment numbers are - the actual is above 20% and possibly as high as 25%...


U6 is at 14.4%, down from its peak at 17.1% in 2009. link. Note that U6 includes people who have a part-time job but want a full-time one, as well as people who have given up looking but still wish to work.

[citation needed] on any sensible unemployment measurement that exceeds U6, please.
 
2013-02-17 08:58:07 PM  
Sorry, trying again for the U6 reference link.
 
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