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(BBC)   Apparently trees are more important than people, as environmentalists set fire to Greek gold mine   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 155
    More: Fail, Geography of Greece, Greek, gold mining, mining, petrol bombs, parliamentary debate, administrative court, flammable liquids  
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7948 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Feb 2013 at 1:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-17 02:49:47 PM
Greco-terrorists?
 
2013-02-17 02:50:53 PM

Hack Patooey: Is it a big deal to require companies to be a good steward of the land?


Apparently, yes.
 
2013-02-17 02:51:31 PM
Trees are necessary to our existence.....gold has neat qualities but is not a necessity.
 
2013-02-17 02:52:54 PM

Mrbogey: As you're apparently still breathing and you've got a computer, you may have noticed that environmentalism is predicated on the fallacy of the false dilemma.


Could say the same about your gold fears, considering we can make it in labs now.
 
2013-02-17 02:55:43 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: The My Little Pony Killer: People need trees in order to have their carbon dioxide recycled back into breathable oxygen.  People need gold like they need another hole in the head.

By extension to that, we can always use more trees for more oxygen production, habitat development, and occasional fuel source.

We need more people for...hmm...exactly nothing.


If you feel that strongly about your position, you could always find a high bridge or building and take the jump.
Show us the strength of your convictions.
 
2013-02-17 02:55:44 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Mrbogey: As you're apparently still breathing and you've got a computer, you may have noticed that environmentalism is predicated on the fallacy of the false dilemma.

Could say the same about your gold fears, considering we can make it in labs now.


I can never tell if you're serious, or completely misunderstand or misrepresent what you claim. What do you mean "make" gold in a lab? Like, start with lead and transmute it? Or what?
 
2013-02-17 02:59:05 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: J. Frank Parnell: Mrbogey: As you're apparently still breathing and you've got a computer, you may have noticed that environmentalism is predicated on the fallacy of the false dilemma.

Could say the same about your gold fears, considering we can make it in labs now.

I can never tell if you're serious, or completely misunderstand or misrepresent what you claim. What do you mean "make" gold in a lab? Like, start with lead and transmute it? Or what?




Perhaps he practices the art of alchemy.
 
2013-02-17 03:01:19 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Agent Smiths Laugh: The My Little Pony Killer: People need trees in order to have their carbon dioxide recycled back into breathable oxygen.  People need gold like they need another hole in the head.

By extension to that, we can always use more trees for more oxygen production, habitat development, and occasional fuel source.

We need more people for...hmm...exactly nothing.

If you feel that strongly about your position, you could always find a high bridge or building and take the jump.
Show us the strength of your convictions.


He's one of the necessary humans and is obviously only referring to the poor and unfortunate that can't contribute the same beautiful insight that he has provided us today.
 
2013-02-17 03:02:23 PM

relcec: Bingham Canyon Mine
liberals see this as crime against humanity.
normal people understand it is the most productive use of remote and otherwise unusable land imaginable and it allows us to enjoy the high standard of living and low mortality rates we are accustomed to without giving up very much at all.
this mine has employed thousands of people every year (at times up to 10,000 just in direct mining) for 140 years.
after hundreds of years of operation, it still supplies 15% of u.s. demand for copper (about 50% of copper comes from recycling, so around 30% of demand for new copper in the u.s. comes from these 1900 acres that only a handful of people would have otherwise ever even stepped foot on).
over it's life it has produced 217 billion in copper, gold, and molybdenum.
that's $114 million per acre in materials needed to create a modern society.

[www.usmra.com image 500x354]

they'd prefer it and mines like it never existed and therefore the electrification of the united states and the world as we know it never took place.

you can't expect rational thought get good governance out of ideological zealots.


So your point is that since mines like this exist, we should obviously build them in every possible location on earth?  No that wasn't your point?  Then you aren't making any sense, as we weren't talking about a remote mine.

Are you just too ignorant to understand the actual controversy?
 
2013-02-17 03:02:29 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: J. Frank Parnell: Mrbogey: As you're apparently still breathing and you've got a computer, you may have noticed that environmentalism is predicated on the fallacy of the false dilemma.

Could say the same about your gold fears, considering we can make it in labs now.

I can never tell if you're serious, or completely misunderstand or misrepresent what you claim. What do you mean "make" gold in a lab? Like, start with lead and transmute it? Or what?


We've been able to do that for a while, but it's far cheaper to just dig it out of a hole in the ground.

When gold hits 10B/ounce, then we can start making it.
 
2013-02-17 03:04:36 PM
Fark the earth.  That biatch has tried more than once to kill me.  If somebody else wants coont punch the biatch I'm all for it.  Even better if that same person is kicking a bunch of socialists when they're down.
 
2013-02-17 03:08:25 PM

relcec: Bingham Canyon Mine
liberals see this as crime against humanity.
normal people understand it is the most productive use of remote and otherwise unusable land imaginable and it allows us to enjoy the high standard of living and low mortality rates we are accustomed to without giving up very much at all.
this mine has employed thousands of people every year (at times up to 10,000 just in direct mining) for 140 years.
after hundreds of years of operation, it still supplies 15% of u.s. demand for copper (about 50% of copper comes from recycling, so around 30% of demand for new copper in the u.s. comes from these 1900 acres that only a handful of people would have otherwise ever even stepped foot on).
over it's life it has produced 217 billion in copper, gold, and molybdenum.
that's $114 million per acre in materials needed to create a modern society.

[www.usmra.com image 500x354]

they'd prefer it and mines like it never existed and therefore the electrification of the united states and the world as we know it never took place.

you can't expect rational thought get good governance out of ideological zealots.


That'sa mighty nice straw man you have there.
 
2013-02-17 03:09:17 PM

GilRuiz1: These folks are unmoved by the lure of jobs and money, preferring unemployment and poverty rather than risk potential environmental damage that might occur in the future.  At least they're sticking by their principles.



Because they would have to get jobs otherwise
 
2013-02-17 03:10:19 PM

relcec: Bingham Canyon Mine
liberals see this as crime against humanity.


www.theinternational.org

Difference is Greece is a major holiday destination for the rest of Europe. Would you holiday here?
 
2013-02-17 03:13:13 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Could say the same about your gold fears, considering we can make it in labs now.


Yea, you go and create gold in a lab. I'll create oxygen. The first to make it at the lowest cost wins.

Again, false dilemma. You can have a gold mine without destroying the ability to live.

Environmentalism is how a personal coward can become a communal hero. Decry the extravagance of their own lifestyle while pitying the poverty of others. Demanding something be done while offering to do nothing.
 
2013-02-17 03:13:17 PM

jamspoon: relcec: Bingham Canyon Mine
liberals see this as crime against humanity.

[www.theinternational.org image 620x465]

Difference is Greece is a major holiday destination for the rest of Europe. Would you holiday here?


No one vacations where they are building the mine, your argument is stupid.
 
2013-02-17 03:17:59 PM

Mister Peejay: We've been able to do that for a while, but it's far cheaper to just dig it out of a hole in the ground.


Yes, but a few atoms at a time, won't exactly crater the gold market anytime soon. Maybe he meant we can 3D print gold?
 
2013-02-17 03:19:07 PM

jamspoon: relcec: Bingham Canyon Mine
liberals see this as crime against humanity.

[www.theinternational.org image 620x465]

Difference is Greece is a major holiday destination for the rest of Europe. Would you holiday here?


I'd film a Doctor Who episode there.
 
2013-02-17 03:24:20 PM
So in a country where no one pays their taxes, where everyone expects government handouts, and where they riot when the government is forced to cut freebies because they are broke, it turns out they also don't like anything that might provide jobs and much needed tax revenue?  Color me shocked.
 
2013-02-17 03:28:49 PM

OgreMagi: So in a country where no one pays their taxes, where everyone expects government handouts, and where they riot when the government is forced to cut freebies because they are broke, it turns out they also don't like anything that might provide jobs and much needed tax revenue?  Color me shocked.


I wouldn't oversimplify it like that.

The real question that needs to be asked is if this would negatively impact the tourism industry that already exists there, and if it does, does the jobs/revenue the gold mine will bring make up for the revenue that would be loss in the tourism industry.
 
2013-02-17 03:30:15 PM

2wolves: Subby, let me know when you can eat gold.


The weird part is that most of the gold produced is destined never to be "used".  It will most likely be dug up to be smelted into a 0.999 brick under the careful watch of armed security, and then locked on a shelf in a cold, dark vault for the same sort of eternal stasis it enjoyed in the ground.

There it will do nothing but exist.  It will likely never be eaten or worn or refined into electronics plating.  For security reasons, there will surely be tight controls and only a handful of inventory people are brought in to swear to its mere existence in the first place.

I understand the economy and all.  I'm just seeing some Hitchhiker's Guide perverse weirdness in destroying an area for a commodity no one actually uses.
 
2013-02-17 03:32:15 PM
darp LIBRAL
hurrrrrrrrrhurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
2013-02-17 03:35:58 PM

Oznog: There it will do nothing but exist.  It will likely never be eaten or worn or refined into electronics plating.  For security reasons, there will surely be tight controls and only a handful of inventory people are brought in to swear to its mere existence in the first place.

I understand the economy and all.  I'm just seeing some Hitchhiker's Guide perverse weirdness in destroying an area for a commodity no one actually uses.



So while it is sitting in those vaults, is no one using it for anything?  Seems like a waste.  Why bother to dig it up in the first place?
 
2013-02-17 03:36:14 PM

Mister Peejay: We've been able to do that for a while, but it's far cheaper to just dig it out of a hole in the ground.


Interestingly, the very first people to do it back in 2007 claimed they could make tonnes of gold cheaply and relatively fast, but as you'll notice most of the articles have since been removed from the internet. Must just be a coincidence, because conspiracies never happen.
 
2013-02-17 03:40:15 PM

JohnAnnArbor: gravebayne2: So is this about the time the hippies show up to fark? seriously... a gold mine operation would bring jobs to the area. Greece has been suffering from high unemployment for quite some time now and they need those jobs.

If you are so against mining, be sure to abandon your vehicle and get off the computer. those components inside of them were brought to you by mining.

If it wasn't grown, it had to be mined.


So why don't you mine your yard?
 
2013-02-17 03:42:05 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Mister Peejay: We've been able to do that for a while, but it's far cheaper to just dig it out of a hole in the ground.

Interestingly, the very first people to do it back in 2007 claimed they could make tonnes of gold cheaply and relatively fast, but as you'll notice most of the articles have since been removed from the internet. Must just be a coincidence, because conspiracies never happen.


I also note with tinfoil-hatted interest that there has been a huge smear campaign against the author of that article.  Google searches for more of Mr. Ben Dover's articles only gets pornography and facetious commentary.
 
2013-02-17 03:44:46 PM

Hack Patooey: I love how it has to be one or the other.  Is it a big deal to require companies to be a good steward of the land?  Is it a big deal for people to calm the fark down about every single tree and see that modern society needs to do certain things to be, you know, a modern society?


This. I HATE these choices. Would you prefer poverty and unemployment, or a landscape ruined by industrial waste? I want neither! Isn't there another choice?
 
2013-02-17 03:45:11 PM

gadian: Depends on the person and the tree, really.


ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-02-17 03:50:23 PM

OgreMagi: So in a country where no one pays their taxes, where everyone expects government handouts, and where they riot when the government is forced to cut freebies because they are broke, it turns out they also don't like anything that might provide jobs and much needed tax revenue?  Color me shocked.


they (some) also abandon children with birth defects (deaf etc...) in institutions and don't visit them, ever, to hide potentially flawed genes from other families they might want to marry into. sort of like spartans throwing weak children off the cliffs or something?
 
2013-02-17 03:57:50 PM
You can print money, but you can't make more trees.

Good for the environmentalists.  The mining company was probably avoiding taxes and replacing equipment will net more jobs.
 
2013-02-17 03:59:05 PM
WOW there has to be a 24K joke buried in there somewhere.
 
2013-02-17 04:01:38 PM

Old enough to know better: Hack Patooey: I love how it has to be one or the other.  Is it a big deal to require companies to be a good steward of the land?  Is it a big deal for people to calm the fark down about every single tree and see that modern society needs to do certain things to be, you know, a modern society?

This. I HATE these choices. Would you prefer poverty and unemployment, or a landscape ruined by industrial waste? I want neither! Isn't there another choice?


Nope, its either one extreme or the other, THERE SHALL BE NO MIDDLE GROUND!!!

/at least that seems to be the concensus on Fark
 
2013-02-17 04:01:49 PM

super_grass: You can print money, but you can't make more trees.



Yeah, cause once a tree is gone another can never grow back. Stupid argument is stupid.
 
2013-02-17 04:03:02 PM
I think that the world would do better without man than it would without trees, so yeah, in a sense, trees are more important than people.

:-D
 
2013-02-17 04:08:31 PM

iaazathot: you can't expect rational thought get good governance out of ideological zealots.

That's a mighty nice straw man you have there.



most of these dimwits would prefer open pit mining and mountain top removal (by far the most efficient mining possible), never mind mining that just requires cutting down trees, never existed and would ban it if given the opportunity to the detriment of the entire human population.

Frank Parnell: Hmm, oxygen, or my computer. Tough choice.

Darth_Lukecash [TotalFark]: Mining companies don't give a damn about people either. The latest mining technique invlves destructions of mountain tops... And they don't even try to do a restoration when it's over.

Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer [TotalFark]: Lead, mercury, and arsenic are good for you citizen! Rich people who don't live nearby need more shiny rocks!

The My Little Pony Killer: People need trees in order to have their carbon dioxide recycled back into breathable oxygen.  People need gold like they need another hole in the head.

2wolves: Subby, let me know when you can eat gold.

that's no strawman, it's how many think around here.
there's no question of cost versus benefit or possible mitigation strategies. just pure unadulterated froth and nonsense from a bunch of childish zealots.
/tell me the turth, wouldn't you yourself actually rather Bingham Canyon Mine never existed. doesn't it actually look like a terrible scar on the bosom of mother earth rather than am efficient and necessary extraction of resources in the name of technological and human progress to you?
 
2013-02-17 04:09:58 PM

super_grass: You can print money, but you can't make more trees.

Good for the environmentalists.  The mining company was probably avoiding taxes and replacing equipment will net more jobs.

 
2013-02-17 04:12:29 PM

relcec: iaazathot: you can't expect rational thought get good governance out of ideological zealots.

That's a mighty nice straw man you have there.


most of these dimwits would prefer open pit mining and mountain top removal (by far the most efficient mining possible), never mind mining that just requires cutting down trees, never existed and would ban it if given the opportunity to the detriment of the entire human population.

Frank Parnell: Hmm, oxygen, or my computer. Tough choice.

Darth_Lukecash [TotalFark]: Mining companies don't give a damn about people either. The latest mining technique invlves destructions of mountain tops... And they don't even try to do a restoration when it's over.

Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer [TotalFark]: Lead, mercury, and arsenic are good for you citizen! Rich people who don't live nearby need more shiny rocks!

The My Little Pony Killer: People need trees in order to have their carbon dioxide recycled back into breathable oxygen.  People need gold like they need another hole in the head.

2wolves: Subby, let me know when you can eat gold.

that's no strawman, it's how many think around here.
there's no question of cost versus benefit or possible mitigation strategies. just pure unadulterated froth and nonsense from a bunch of childish zealots.
/tell me the turth, wouldn't you yourself actually rather Bingham Canyon Mine never existed. doesn't it actually look like a terrible scar on the bosom of mother earth rather than am efficient and necessary extraction of resources in the name of technological and human progress to you?


It is ugly as sin but it does serve its purpose.

That being said, I vote for a middle ground in which the mining can be done without causing too much harm and damage to the environment.

Guess that's a crazy thing to ask for.
 
2013-02-17 04:16:03 PM
Trees provide me oxygen.

People compete with me for resources.

The choice is clear.
 
2013-02-17 04:31:26 PM
It's obvious subby's mom was raped by a tree.
 
2013-02-17 04:36:26 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Mining companies don't give a damn about people either.

The latest mining technique invlves destructions of mountain tops... And they don't even try to do a restoration when it's over.


mountain tops are people too!

With that said:

Apparently trees are more important than people

Yeah, sometimes.
 
2013-02-17 04:39:20 PM

Mrtraveler01: that's no strawman, it's how many think around here.
there's no question of cost versus benefit or possible mitigation strategies. just pure unadulterated froth and nonsense from a bunch of childish zealots.
/tell me the turth, wouldn't you yourself actually rather Bingham Canyon Mine never existed. doesn't it actually look like a terrible scar on the bosom of mother earth rather than am efficient and necessary extraction of resources in the name of technological and human progress to you?

It is ugly as sin but it does serve its purpose.

That being said, I vote for a middle ground in which the mining can be done without causing too much harm and damage to the environment.

Guess that's a crazy thing to ask for.


of course.
there should be a cost benefit analysis that takes into consideration the value to society of obtaining essential resources cheaply as well as the potential environmental problems likely to be created, the actual utility of leaving the natural landscape completely unaltered, plus a requirement for the mining crop to institute a reclamation program at some point in the distant future.

but you can't expect a reasonable outcome if you let these environmental zealots to spew their nonsense unchecked.
 
2013-02-17 04:40:35 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? Maybe, if they screamed all the time for no reason.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE5f561Y1x4
 
2013-02-17 04:43:58 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: People need trees in order to have their carbon dioxide recycled back into breathable oxygen.  People need gold like they need another hole in the head.


Gold is used in more than jewelry. It's a valuable component in electronics.
 
2013-02-17 04:49:51 PM

gravebayne2: So is this about the time the hippies show up to fark? seriously... a gold mine operation would bring jobs to the area. Greece has been suffering from high unemployment for quite some time now and they need those jobs.

If you are so against mining, be sure to abandon your vehicle and get off the computer. those components inside of them were brought to you by mining.


It's cute how you think international corporations always follow through on their job promises to locals.
 
2013-02-17 04:51:02 PM

Mrbogey: J. Frank Parnell: Hmm, oxygen, or my computer. Tough choice.

As you're apparently still breathing and you've got a computer, you may have noticed that environmentalism is predicated on the fallacy of the false dilemma.


As is the industrialist's converse position, that mining operations can't be held to any environmental standards whatsoever.
 
2013-02-17 04:52:54 PM

relcec: Bingham Canyon Mine
liberals see this as crime against humanity.
normal people understand it is the most productive use of remote and otherwise unusable land imaginable and it allows us to enjoy the high standard of living and low mortality rates we are accustomed to without giving up very much at all.
this mine has employed thousands of people every year (at times up to 10,000 just in direct mining) for 140 years.
after hundreds of years of operation, it still supplies 15% of u.s. demand for copper (about 50% of copper comes from recycling, so around 30% of demand for new copper in the u.s. comes from these 1900 acres that only a handful of people would have otherwise ever even stepped foot on).
over it's life it has produced 217 billion in copper, gold, and molybdenum.
that's $114 million per acre in materials needed to create a modern society.

[www.usmra.com image 500x354]

they'd prefer it and mines like it never existed and therefore the electrification of the united states and the world as we know it never took place.

you can't expect rational thought get good governance out of ideological zealots.


Like free marketeers, who have no problem with mine tailings getting into OTHER people's water supply?
 
2013-02-17 04:57:13 PM

Mrbogey: J. Frank Parnell: Could say the same about your gold fears, considering we can make it in labs now.

Yea, you go and create gold in a lab. I'll create oxygen. The first to make it at the lowest cost wins.

Again, false dilemma. You can have a gold mine without destroying the ability to live.

Environmentalism is how a personal coward can become a communal hero. Decry the extravagance of their own lifestyle while pitying the poverty of others. Demanding something be done while offering to do nothing.


Shilling for industry for free on the internet is how an unethical person can behave immorally, yet not be directly rewarded.

Sweeping generalizations are fun!
 
2013-02-17 04:58:46 PM

PunGent: you can't expect rational thought get good governance out of ideological zealots.

Like free marketeers, who have no problem with mine tailings getting into OTHER people's water supply?


now that you mention it, I have noticed all my conservative friends appear to love ground water contamination.
so you are just saving me from the people that would asphyxiate me with coal smoke and poison my water if it weren't for heroes like you supporting the obstruction of every development of land imaginable.
I've changed my mind, thank you for your service to humanity.
 
2013-02-17 05:40:54 PM

Kahabut: relcec: Bingham Canyon Mine
liberals see this as crime against humanity.
normal people understand it is the most productive use of remote and otherwise unusable land imaginable and it allows us to enjoy the high standard of living and low mortality rates we are accustomed to without giving up very much at all.
this mine has employed thousands of people every year (at times up to 10,000 just in direct mining) for 140 years.
after hundreds of years of operation, it still supplies 15% of u.s. demand for copper (about 50% of copper comes from recycling, so around 30% of demand for new copper in the u.s. comes from these 1900 acres that only a handful of people would have otherwise ever even stepped foot on).
over it's life it has produced 217 billion in copper, gold, and molybdenum.
that's $114 million per acre in materials needed to create a modern society.

[www.usmra.com image 500x354]

they'd prefer it and mines like it never existed and therefore the electrification of the united states and the world as we know it never took place.

you can't expect rational thought get good governance out of ideological zealots.

So your point is that since mines like this exist, we should obviously build them in every possible location on earth?  No that wasn't your point?  Then you aren't making any sense, as we weren't talking about a remote mine.

Are you just too ignorant to understand the actual controversy?


Give the man some credit. He made a whole post without biatching about foreigners.
 
2013-02-17 05:58:16 PM

PunGent: As is the industrialist's converse position, that mining operations can't be held to any environmental standards whatsoever.


And there's the strawman.

super_grass: You can print money, but you can't make more trees.

Good for the environmentalists.  The mining company was probably avoiding taxes and replacing equipment will net more jobs.


Is this a parody? Is this Poe's Law coming out for a test drive?
 
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