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(BBC)   "I think the impact of decriminalising, of regulating [class A drugs], of taking this activity out of the hands of organised crime, is the way to improve our society right now"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 56
    More: Obvious, class a drugs, Belfast, methadone, heroin  
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7763 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Feb 2013 at 10:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-17 09:06:41 AM  
7 votes:
I submitted this purely for selfish reasons. I spent most of last year dealing with, and being convicted of, possession of class A and B drugs. In a bar with 0.4 grams of 5% cocaine which I hadn't touched. Subsequent search of my home led to discovery of trace amounts of grass (which i had touched) in empty baggies. I'm not a drug addict but I went out last year and bought sh*t coke and got busted. I smoke a joint about once a month. I'm a family man who had a weekend off and it led to the worst year of my life.

I believe a review of drug policy is badly needed.
2013-02-17 11:30:34 AM  
4 votes:

WTF Indeed: This is great idea. Legalizing hard drugs means that you can tax the sale of them, making money for the state. As everyone knows heroin and coke addicts have lots of disposable income and will be willing to pay that extra bit for a high.  We must also think about the side benefits of this plan, like the rise of hard drug market economy. Competition will help drive that price down so that everyone can be a drooling drug fiend if they want too.  This also opens vast new opportunities for Discovery Channel shows as there will be tens of millions of dollars to be made in the black market sale of untaxed drugs.


Harsh penalties for possession and use of drugs or drug paraphernalia keep people from seeking help and makes it difficult to offer help to addicts. It also encourages risky behavior, as an example hypodermic needles are pretty tightly controlled in the US(as an anti-drug measure) of course it doesn't actually stop people from injecting drugs it just means they use dirty needles. Also nobody would be smoking "bath salts" if they could get marijuana. And that's without getting into the secondary effects of The War On Drugs such as the erosion of 4th Amendment rights, militarization of domestic police and money funneled to organized crime through the drug trade.
2013-02-17 11:27:16 AM  
4 votes:
Here in Bern, Switzerland they're pretty good about this sort of thing: the police focus on going after drug traffickers, particularly those involved with violence.

They treat drug <i>use</i> like a medical, rather than criminal, issue -- they encourage users to stop using drugs and offer treatment to those who need or want it. The Swiss are big on "harm reduction" and have government-run sites that hand out sterile needles so people don't feel the need to reuse needles and risk even more serious health issues. They also offer heroin-assisted treatment (to help wean people off the drug) and have supervised injection rooms with medical staff on-site.

Not surprisingly, these measures are far less expensive and more effective than treating drug use like a criminal issue, having to undergo trials, incarcerations, etc. The US could learn a lot from the Swiss.
2013-02-17 11:10:42 AM  
4 votes:

cman: The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.


Organized crime WILL exist as long as there is people and crime. One thing you can do though is make it as hard as possible for said organized criminals to get funds. One way of doing this is to find the things they get funds from (one case is black market drugs) and supply those to the public cheaper than the black market and at reliably better quality.

A case in point, alcohol and prohibition in america in the 1920s.

It was simply not possible to put enough police on the job to ensure that every little alcohol stream was eradicated and eventually, to protect the health of the public and to get rid of a funding source for organised crime, alcohol had to be legalized, taxed and sold publicly in shops.

The criminals then moved on to other money making schemes, of course, but they had much less disposable income to fund the setting up of those other schemes and their income overall was reduced.

Doing something is better than doing nothing. You can`t do everything so give up on that right now.
2013-02-17 11:08:44 AM  
4 votes:
Organized crime won't evaporate, but it will lose a very large source of income and, yes, shrink. You take away a business's major income stream and the business will shrink. Criminal organizations aren't immune to the laws of supply and demand.
2013-02-17 12:11:09 PM  
3 votes:

cman: Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.


Organized crime groups are already actively pursuing every money-making venture that is available to them. There's nothing for them to move into that they wouldn't be doing anyway.
2013-02-17 09:25:54 AM  
3 votes:
So you're complaining because you're out 600 pounds, and it inconvenienced you for half a year? Guess what? You knowingly did something illegal and paid what amounted to a slap on the wrist. In America, you'd be getting anally raped by a Klan member for a year.  How about you accept responsibility for your own actions, Mr. Family man who enjoys snorting lines of a coke when he's out on the town.
2013-02-17 07:50:59 AM  
3 votes:
Preemptive strike on the inevitable direction of this thread:

The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.

I want drugs legalized because I like them. I aint gonna bullshiat about that.
2013-02-17 01:21:14 PM  
2 votes:
Meh, there are too many gov agencies who's budgets are threatened by the legalization of drugs, from your local popo and DAs to the DEA and customs and the legal system.  While I never thought I'd see pot in any legal form, I'll be equally amazed if most drugs were legalized because of such a government resistance from the thought of downsizing agencies and forces.
2013-02-17 01:04:34 PM  
2 votes:
Organized crime only exists because drugs are illegal.  We've legalized gambling pretty much everywhere, so book makers and numbers rackets don't produce enough for the 'mob'  Usury laws are toothless, so payday lenders have edged out loan sharking.  Between militarizing the police and kicking out the most corrupt ones we've gotten rid of protection rackets.

There's no traditional mob income left besides drugs.  If it were legalized, all they would have left is counterfeit goods, and the Chinese will fix the glitch on that problem soon enough.
2013-02-17 12:15:37 PM  
2 votes:
All I know is, I live in constant fear that my doctor will get too skittish to keep my back pain adequately controlled, and then I'll be in constant misery.  Which would affect not only me, but my husband, and my kids -- everything and everybody I'm involved with.  With a degenerative spinal condition, if I can't have my pain treated, all hope for the future will be lost to me.
2013-02-17 11:49:06 AM  
2 votes:
Until the current generation of stubborn ignorant cement-heads are talking to and pissing themselves in nursing homes, we'll face an uphill battle getting these laws off the books, along with enthusiasm that law enforcement and prosecutors have for ruining people's lives for bullshiat reasons.

The irony is that if you have ever been in a nursing home you would conclude there is a huge population of miserable sods living there that would benefit enormously from smoking a couple of bowls a day.
2013-02-17 11:39:50 AM  
2 votes:
The way to improve society rarely seems to match up with the way to win elections.
2013-02-17 11:39:05 AM  
2 votes:

Rozotorical: cman: Preemptive strike on the inevitable direction of this thread:

The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.

I want drugs legalized because I like them. I aint gonna bullshiat about that.

You're telling me, that removing billions in their revenue stream will have no effect?




It will have an effect.
Ending prohibitions on drugs, guns, booze, prostitution and others things (here to for referred to as "Fun") gets the criminals out of profitable and illegitimate business. They either go straight and make less money in the fun industry, or they find a new racket.
The mob is involved in rigging everything from gas meters to renewable energy schemes. They just aren't as profitable as buying fun for a dollar outside the US and reselling it for hundreds of thousands inside.

The main side effect is reducing fun related violence and the ill influences of profiteering on fun. It gets all the money from fun out of the gangs, who will have to find something else to fight over besides their illicit stockpiles of fun.

There will still be crime, but with luck it will take on a less corrupting and dangerous form.
More jobs created by fun, fewer criminals.
2013-02-17 11:27:11 AM  
2 votes:
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
2013-02-17 11:17:56 AM  
2 votes:

liquidpoo: 8ace: I submitted this purely for selfish reasons. I spent most of last year dealing with, and being convicted of, possession of class A and B drugs. In a bar with 0.4 grams of 5% cocaine which I hadn't touched. Subsequent search of my home led to discovery of trace amounts of grass (which i had touched) in empty baggies. I'm not a drug addict but I went out last year and bought sh*t coke and got busted. I smoke a joint about once a month. I'm a family man who had a weekend off and it led to the worst year of my life.

I believe a review of drug policy is badly needed.

How about just not doing drugs? Seems easy enough to me.


How about just drinking water and living on a vegan macrobiotic diet and conforming to every expectation others have of you and limiting your entire freakin life to someone else`s judgement on what you should experience?

Or, you know, living a bit? Seems easy enough to me.
2013-02-17 11:11:37 AM  
2 votes:

8ace: I submitted this purely for selfish reasons. I spent most of last year dealing with, and being convicted of, possession of class A and B drugs. In a bar with 0.4 grams of 5% cocaine which I hadn't touched. Subsequent search of my home led to discovery of trace amounts of grass (which i had touched) in empty baggies. I'm not a drug addict but I went out last year and bought sh*t coke and got busted. I smoke a joint about once a month. I'm a family man who had a weekend off and it led to the worst year of my life.

I believe a review of drug policy is badly needed.


How about just not doing drugs? Seems easy enough to me.
2013-02-17 11:11:07 AM  
2 votes:
Legalize drugs and prostitution.  We did it for gambling!  Starve the black market out.  The problem is: The powers that be WANT THERE TO BE A BLACK MARKET AND 'WAR ON SCARY THINGS'.
2013-02-17 11:10:27 AM  
2 votes:
We need to take the distribution and manufacturing of these dangerous drugs away from organized crime and put it into the hands of a more benevolent and responsible group of people.... big pharma.
2013-02-17 11:03:46 AM  
2 votes:
I don't know if this applies to coke, but I've seen a suggestion that governments hand out free heroin to addicts who come forward and ask for it. Suddenly dealers don't have addicts to sell to and they have to get a different gig. If there's no dealers because there's free heroin then why are the criminal elements going to shoot at each other to control the heroin trade?

In short order you have few new addicts because there's no dealers offering it to start people up. And you have fewer OD's because the addicts you do have are shooting up with known concentrations.

Pot, OTOH, was criminalized for imagined sins by the same sort of people who got alcohol criminalized and the Klan.
2013-02-17 11:03:39 AM  
2 votes:
Banning guns will work just as well as banning drugs, yet the same dumbass liberals who call for stripping gun rights are almost always pro drug legalization. They even go as far as exploiting dead children - using them as props in the state of the union - to support this position, but you'll never hear them say a word about how much damage drugs do to children in this country. Absolute scum of the earth.
2013-02-17 10:17:56 AM  
2 votes:

WTF Indeed: keys bumps on their weekend off from work does not meet the requirement of drug laws being a violation of civil rights


Alcohol being legal is the kicker in your belief of drug laws. Alcohol will f**k your family up. It's legal. Gambling too. Play the lottery?
2013-02-17 08:50:31 AM  
2 votes:
EvilEgg:
While this is true, the ones in power now will go legit and become mainstream rich and powerful.  It will be a whole new set of crooks.

Organized crime bosses aren't like Dr. Evil, they don't pull one crazy plan and retire after the big payoff.  They are more like #2, constantly working on investments leading into long term payoffs that will out weigh the risk, building the biggest conglomerate they can.  Just like organized bosses only they get caught.  Don't mistake mainstream rich and powerful as law-abiding, they just leave the 'crime' off the business cards.

WTF Indeed:

That was nice snark.  It really touched me.
2013-02-18 06:55:17 AM  
1 votes:
Meh Belfast, it's a political backwater, who'se going to listen to this when eminent drug advoisors in London who say the same thing get lynching by media?. But the bloke makes sense though


cman:The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.

They'll struggle to find as easy and lucrative money making endeavours as drugs, especially the addictive ones. The " War on Drugs" has for generations now handed control of an unbelievable cash machine to criminals. There wouldn't be so many criminals and they wouldn't be so rich and ruthless if this stuff was legal and regulated. Nor would there be so much drug taking.


WTF Indeed: Competition will help drive that price down so that everyone can be a drooling drug fiend if they want too.
Yes that's how the unfettered market works for addictive drugs. The solution is to regulate the points of sale, organisations involved and price via taxes. Right now none of that is done ensuring that the most ruthless, ratbastard scum are at the top of the money making tree.
There's only two choices here: Serve our society, be pragmatic and go with what works or continue to needlessly sabotage our society's future by feeding the vermin.

A large part of the problem here is our society ("The West") is historically illiterate and thus has no way of measuring what a disaster the "War on Drugs" is. (Also there seems to be a built in witchunting/scapegoating mechanism in humans).
Another large chunk of the blame must attach to our politicians for not being braver and telling it like it is - although to be fair voters have a limited appetite for unpalatable truths.
Nevertheless if you want to know how competant the Western political class and systems are just look at illegal drugs policy. True, our politicos aren't third world incompetant but they fall very far short.
2013-02-17 05:52:46 PM  
1 votes:

cman: Preemptive strike on the inevitable direction of this thread:

The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.

I want drugs legalized because I like them. I aint gonna bullshiat about that.


That is completely not the argument, cman. The argument is that if people are going to do drugs, why should you not give them supervised, easy-access to good-grade materials, rather then people dropping dead from chemistry so sloppy that even the most basic household cleaning supplies meet a higher standard?

The answer is that you think heaven is waiting for them, so why not kill them quickly? And if that strikes you as a bit of a campy answer, please, give us another reason your son or daughter should meet criminals in a city at night to get 30 cents worth of a pharmaceutical without your knowledge, when you could have an adult conversation instead (no hiding when it's legal) and get that kid some help?

/Oh, because people in power are assholes.
2013-02-17 04:14:49 PM  
1 votes:

cman: Preemptive strike on the inevitable direction of this thread:

The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.

I want drugs legalized because I like them. I aint gonna bullshiat about that.


Since organized crime will always exist, why on earth hand them yet another corner of the market to monopolize and generate huge profits from? The Mafia isn't one single element one can eradicate from the world ever, it is a symptom of society failing somewhere.

Forcing organized crime to look for others to get into other than flipping drugs (good luck finding anything as easy OR lucrative) at least slows them down and cuts into Tony Montana's monthly take.
2013-02-17 01:59:48 PM  
1 votes:

citizenj: Prohibition doesn't work.
You'd think we would have learned that.

But no.

Medical treatment, education, these things work.

So what, 8ace wanted to get responsibly farked up. I like to once every year or two also.

Does that make us evil?


If you're doing hard drugs it makes you a farking idiot. Smoke weed or get drunk, don't do hard drugs because they  are addictive, they  do cause neurological problems, and a few of them have side effects like burning out your emotions or giving you severe brain damage. TFA was discussing legalization to protect addicts, not create new ones.

That said, legalization  will protect addicts, and  will get them safe help quickly, which is something both British and American society need desperately. For you, however, please do not be a moran, do your homework before getting farked up and don't take something that could seriously hurt you. Fark doesn't need  more brain damage around this place.
2013-02-17 01:50:31 PM  
1 votes:

Eddie Adams from Torrance: tuffsnake: "Honey I'm going to CVS do you need anything from there?"
"Uh, oh actually yeah can you refill on my herion oxycodone prescription? Here's the bottle it still has two refills on it"
"Sure thing, hon"
"Thanks sweetie"

See the difference?

No?

That's because there isn't one.


I agree with William S Burroughs on heroin regulation.  He suggeasted that the heroin trade, being a demand-based business, would cease to exist over time by a junkie quarantine. It's a disease.  You must quarantine and help the afflicted while stopping the spread. Round up the junkies, put them in a non-discriminatory rehab program that mixes weaning, methadone, and replacement along with health care.  After six months, the heroin's not in control of the streets anymore.  Mind you, this was only regarding heroin and wasn't a catch all solution, but it's still a valid idea.  He said heroin is (was at the time) the only really dangerous drug based on demand.  Cocaine is supply based addiction. While the details might not appeal to everyone, the major problem at the time--and to a degree still--was the lumping in of all narcotics into a simplistic Pile of Zero Tolerance.
2013-02-17 01:26:57 PM  
1 votes:

Savage Baggage Master: WhoopAssWayne: Banning guns will work just as well as banning drugs, yet the same dumbass liberals who call for stripping gun rights are almost always pro drug legalization. They even go as far as exploiting dead children - using them as props in the state of the union - to support this position, but you'll never hear them say a word about how much damage drugs do to children in this country. Absolute scum of the earth.

Yeah, get back to us when a guy shoots up some heroin in an elementary school and his overdose takes 20 innocent children out with him.

That's a farking retarded analogy and you know it.  Absolute scum of the earth.


That dumbass guns/drugs analogy works only to the extent a gun owner uses it on himself. Once that becomes the norm, the analogy will have done traction.

Until then, people *really* need to quite quoting that dumb piece of monkey-shiat asshole.
2013-02-17 01:23:08 PM  
1 votes:

basemetal: Meh, there are too many gov agencies who's budgets are threatened by the legalization of drugs, from your local popo and DAs to the DEA and customs and the legal system.  While I never thought I'd see pot in any legal form, I'll be equally amazed if most drugs were legalized because of such a government resistance from the thought of downsizing agencies and forces.


We could make a bargain, we get drugs, and they keep the money to fight real crime
2013-02-17 12:54:30 PM  
1 votes:

WhoopAssWayne: Banning guns will work just as well as banning drugs, yet the same dumbass liberals who call for stripping gun rights are almost always pro drug legalization. They even go as far as exploiting dead children - using them as props in the state of the union - to support this position, but you'll never hear them say a word about how much damage drugs do to children in this country. Absolute scum of the earth.


Yeah, get back to us when a guy shoots up some heroin in an elementary school and his overdose takes 20 innocent children out with him.

That's a farking retarded analogy and you know it.  Absolute scum of the earth.
2013-02-17 12:43:58 PM  
1 votes:
decriminalizing is not legalization

lol, only someone on drugs will make that mistake!


I say we make alcohol and tobacco illegal with the rest of them and decriminalize all of it.
2013-02-17 12:32:40 PM  
1 votes:
"Honey I'm going to CVS do you need anything from there?"
"Uh, oh actually yeah can you refill on my herion prescription? Here's the bottle it still has two refills on it"
"Sure thing, hon"
"Thanks sweetie"
2013-02-17 12:20:37 PM  
1 votes:

8ace: I believe a review of drug policy is badly needed.


When my kids were young we had the "just say no" "all drugs are bad" policy.

I warned them about the specific dangers of each drug. The fallout from being caught being the main marijuana risk.
2013-02-17 12:19:46 PM  
1 votes:
No matter what it is. No matter what method , some people will not do it, not at all or do it too much.
(Guns, Lotto, Booze, Drugs, Porn, Religion).  Its the extremes that get the attention.
I do not know of any family that has never had someone of either extreme.

So we regulate what the middle can live with. We move the boundaries around with laws.
If we agree on that then maybe we can move forward. But we can not agree on that.
2013-02-17 12:09:07 PM  
1 votes:
Cut the crap. Just look at Portugal, they've done this with great success and are saving taxpayer dollars in the process.
2013-02-17 12:07:25 PM  
1 votes:

pjbreeze: If we legalized class A drugs, would everyone become heroin addicts overnight?
 I don't think so.


We can take a real world example from holland who had something like 10,000 junkies when they decriminalized heroin and 10 years later they had 10,000 junkies who were all 10 years older...
2013-02-17 12:01:40 PM  
1 votes:

snocone: Write this down.

Your day will come.


Brompton cocktail - sometimes called a Brompton mixture, or, incorrectly, Brompton's cocktail - is an elixir meant for use as a pain suppressant, and dosed for  prophylaxis. Made from  morphine or  diacetylmorphine (heroin),  cocaine, highly-pure  ethyl alcohol (some recipes specify gin), and sometimes with  chlorpromazine (Thorazine) to counteract nausea, it was given to  terminally-ill individuals (especially  cancer patients) to relieve  pain and promote sociability near death. A common formulation included "a variable amount of morphine, 10  mg of cocaine, 2.5  mL of 98% ethyl alcohol, 5 mL of syrup BP and a variable amount of chloroform water.

http://ad.bnmla.com/serve?pid=2078&zid=69599&ohname=en.wikipedia.org &i f=1&cb=673752391&sid=78FC852A-3F12-11E2-8036-12313B082201&click=</a>" frameBorder="0" width="301" name="ap721" scrolling="no" sab="4834">


Holy balls that sounds like a dream vacation.
2013-02-17 12:00:31 PM  
1 votes:

Mr. Titanium: Not quite. Look at the end of Prohibition. Organized crime already had most of the breweries and distilleries, so they started with the facilities to dominate the legal trade. After Prohibition, they used this as a highly profitable money laundering scheme for all their illegal profits. That seems more likely the outcome of legalizing drugs.


It's still preferable to lining highways with the severed heads of recovering addicts, and a drug war that has killed tens of thousands in a year.  It also deals a bad blow to al-qaeda.  Sure, the racket won't disappear, but the legalization of trade will lower the risk on either side.  Also, if drugs are legal, smuggling becomes unnecessary.  This, like renewable clean energy, is not 'save the world' farting unicorn idealism.  This is about keeping America wealthy and protected.  It's really not a cynical way of thinking.  And think of all the domestic R&D and manufacturing jobs!
2013-02-17 11:41:58 AM  
1 votes:

dready zim: JungleBoogie: Saudi Arabia funding terrorists and madrassas

[www.madrasrecipe.com image 600x450]

Saudi Arabia funds curries?


While that looks delicious and has focused my thinking on my next meal, the madrassas to which I'm referring are Islamic religious schools with a focus on a fundamentalist form of Islam called Wahhabism.
2013-02-17 11:40:02 AM  
1 votes:

alice_600: I believe a review of drug policy is badly needed.

How about just not doing drugs? Seems easy enough to me.


THIS...So THIS. BTW my state legalized pot wanna see how rich we got?


So why don`t you two go over there and not do drugs and talk about your latest justin bieber album and glee.

The rest of us cool kids will be wasted over there dancing with the women who were raised by their mom and have boundary issues and tattoos and borderline alcoholism.
2013-02-17 11:33:30 AM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Glancing Blow: cman: Preemptive strike on the inevitable direction of this thread:

The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.

I want drugs legalized because I like them. I aint gonna bullshiat about that.

I don't know why you're reading it that way.  It explicitly states the taking of drugs away from organized crime control, not that this will eliminate organized crime.

So organized crime is not going to sell drugs to people who can't, or won't get a prescription?
Or they won't undercut the prices on the legal drugs.

I think that is a very naive view.


It`s like booze now. The black market only supplies legitimate alcohol, branded etc just obtained without paying tax and the price is usually halfway between the full price and the tax free price. This happens with almost every product with tax on it.

this limits profit on a product to half the tax.

In the current black market for drugs there is often over a 10,000% markup from the original producer to the end user. (heroin is 16833% markup from £450 to £75750 per kilo and cocaine is 15895% markup from £325 to £51659 per kilo)

So while there is a 413% mark-up from farm gate to consumer in the price of a legal drug, coffee, the percentage price mark-up for an illegal drug such as heroin can run into multiple thousands.

413/16833=0.02453

Reducing their profit to 2.45% of what it was simply by producing your own and STILL making a profit seems like a good idea to me. A war on the profits from drugs that has a negative cost AND works?

Unpossible.
2013-02-17 11:31:50 AM  
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: Bontesla: I'm pretty sure advocating for a change in policy because one felt that policy was unjust IS a great example of responsibility.

In the US, that would satisfy the legal requirement of having a dog in that legal fight which would allow him to sue the government.

No, advocating a change in policy is not personal responsibility, if that was the case NAMBLA would be filled with up-standing citizens. And just because one thinks they should be able to do keys bumps on their weekend off from work does not meet the requirement of drug laws being a violation of civil rights.


Lol
That's a really poor requirement for determining responsibility. It's subjective. If you disagree with the initiative then to champion illustrates poor responsibility. Responsibility hinges on a subjective standard that changes with each person.

To take up causes and advocate for change is a sign of personal responsibility. You're trying to effect change. Now, you can disagree with the outcome or goal but that's not the same argument as irresponsibility.
2013-02-17 11:11:22 AM  
1 votes:
<xsl:choose>
<xsl:when test="DrugOfChoice = ClassA">
No free govt healthcare for you.
</xsl:when>
<xsl:otherwise>
Don't do Class A drugs
</xsl:otherwise>
</xsl:choose>
2013-02-17 11:03:08 AM  
1 votes:
Won't SOMEBODY think of all those poor DEA agents who will lose their jerbs!?!

//oh wait, this is Britain.  They might have a chance at reasonable drug policy discussions.
///I'm a child of the 80's when the drug war got ramped up to WHARGARBLE and beyond levels.
////They taught us there were shady people looking to sell us heroin and crack on every street corner, and for some reason they always wore trenchcoats (I guess it helps carry more drugs?)
////All our DARE material had "America: Drug free by 2000" as a footnote on the bottom right corner.
//Sorry, I spoiled that footnote in 97 and haven't looked back
2013-02-17 11:00:52 AM  
1 votes:

cman: Preemptive strike on the inevitable direction of this thread:

The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.


Yeah, but it removes a large revenue stream, allowing them less money with which to entice recruits and fund their mayhem.

Think of Saudi Arabia funding terrorists and madrassas. They can do so because of a vast oil revenue stream. If that revenue stream dried up, they'd have a lot less ability to entice recruits and fund their mayhem.
2013-02-17 10:58:32 AM  
1 votes:
Organized crime? Chit!
That would be your government.
a gang o politicians
Lyin' and lyin' and lyin' again
2013-02-17 10:57:09 AM  
1 votes:

8ace: £200 for possession of A and £100 for B.

£300 for solicitor/lawyer, 10 separate days of work. Six months of back and fourth to police stations while waiting for forensics results of what i had, twice in court because prosecution service f'd up.

All in a days work for drug fiends like me


Is it going to lead to never being able to get a job ever again like it would have in America?
2013-02-17 10:52:20 AM  
1 votes:
Prohibition doesn't work.
You'd think we would have learned that.

But no.

Medical treatment, education, these things work.

So what, 8ace wanted to get responsibly farked up. I like to once every year or two also.

Does that make us evil?
2013-02-17 10:43:58 AM  
1 votes:

cman: The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.


Of course, but we'd stop wasting resources on tackling organized crime WRT class A drugs.

BUT THAT'S NOT A PERFECT SOLUTION TO MY UTOPIAN IDEAL SO LET'S NOT CHANGE A THING FOR THE BETTER
2013-02-17 09:42:45 AM  
1 votes:

cman: Preemptive strike on the inevitable direction of this thread:

The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.

I want drugs legalized because I like them. I aint gonna bullshiat about that.


Guns too. But you forgot something there--legalizing and regulating drugs will not stop organized crime, but leaders of organized crime will have massive avenues of legitimate income, which only serves to legitimize them.


i915.photobucket.com

You know what comes after legitimate business success.  And if you think nepotism is at a vulgar high in politics now, just wait until the cartels start floating candidates out.

/q&d
//facetious hyperbole
2013-02-17 09:22:43 AM  
1 votes:
off work
2013-02-17 09:18:09 AM  
1 votes:
£200 for possession of A and £100 for B.

£300 for solicitor/lawyer, 10 separate days of work. Six months of back and fourth to police stations while waiting for forensics results of what i had, twice in court because prosecution service f'd up.

All in a days work for drug fiends like me
2013-02-17 08:49:33 AM  
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: Competition will help drive that price down so that everyone can be a drooling drug fiend if they want too


Everyone can be a drooling drug fiend if they want.

Not everyone who takes drugs are drooling and fiendish. Were you joking?
2013-02-17 08:02:46 AM  
1 votes:

cman: Preemptive strike on the inevitable direction of this thread:

The argument that organized crime will evaporate if we legalize drugs is complete horse shiat. Organized crime will exist as long as there is crime. They will just move onto other money making endeavors.

I want drugs legalized because I like them. I aint gonna bullshiat about that.


While this is true, the ones in power now will go legit and become mainstream rich and powerful.  It will be a whole new set of crooks.
2013-02-17 06:24:22 AM  
1 votes:
"I think the impact of decriminalizing, of regulating [class A drugs], of taking this activity out of the hands of organized crime, is the way to improve our society right now,"

Stupid Brits and their stupid spelling.
 
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