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(io9)   The 11 biggest lies that mainstream nutrition has told you   (io9.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, HDL, food choices, bad cholesterol, nutrition, kidney diseases, gluten, Dietary mineral, long-term experiment  
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27623 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2013 at 9:33 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-16 10:14:41 PM  

Stone Meadow: In before the Fark Vegans!

Actually, I used to be one of them. But being a vegan ballooned my weight into the obese range, made me a borderline pre-diabetic, gave me raging mood swings, and was all in all a miserable experience. Then I went on the New Atkins Diet, which reversed all of that: normal weight now, fasting blood sugar of 88, normal blood chemistry, no mood swings, and I love the food. I eat lots of eggs and meat, along with all the veggies I can stand, and two servings of fresh fruit a day. Just no wheat, rice, potatoes or pasta. The high fat content naturally turns off my appetite, so I consume fewer calories and have lost 40+ pounds.


If being a vegan means eating french fries, corn, and bread at every meal and forgetting to eat a variety of fruits and vegetables and a variety of sources of protein together (i.e. beans and rice) then yea, being a vegan is not healthy.

My FIL is "on Atkins" and does it completely wrong. He doesn't eat grains but he eats very fatty meats or processed meats, no fish, no vegetables (other than corn/potatoes!), lots of cheese. I haven't read the Atkins manual, but I am positive that CANNOT be what it says is healthy.

So basically, any diet done wrong is unhealthy. If I were willing to give up fish and eggs then I would easily be vegan and I am not chubby, cranky, tired, malnourished, etc. For those who haven't realized it, vegetables contain fat and protein. And grains are really handy to combine with vegetables to provide a complete protein.

/that said dude, if you found something that works for you then keep on it, because in reality all of our bodies are different and what works for some does not work for all. and congratulations on becoming healthy- everyone should have the joy of feeling good.
 
2013-02-16 10:15:08 PM  

foothor: The author of that article definitely has a bias towards keto/Atkins. She referenced two studies to show that low carb dieters lost more weight than low fat dieters but
1) Neither of the studies controlled for number of calories, and
2) Almost every diet meta-analysis shows that there's no big weight loss difference between diets and calories are more important.


Controlling for the number of calories is silly.  In order for a diet to be realistic and sustainable people have to be able to eat until they are satiated.  What commonly happens on low fat diets is that people lose weight but ultimately feel starved because carb rich diet makes them hungry and they eventually cave in and eat more than before.
 
2013-02-16 10:15:43 PM  

macil22: Hobo Jr.: Don't eat grains?

What?

Their argument is wheat in large amounts is unhealthy. It is like the time I overheard a 300lbsreal women in a scooter telling her friend that bread was the worst thing to eat to lose weight.

No lady, stuffing your face with chocolate and lard is bad, having a piece of toast is fine.

The problem with your example is that people aren't making those simple decisions like that.  There is actually little difference between eating a piece of toast and eating a piece of chocolate and as the article says, the lard itself would be fine, but combined with sugar it is not.

If someone ate lard until they were full with no sugar/carbs they would not gain weight.  It is not as simple as telling people to eat less because the sugars/carbs they are eating will make them hungry again very quickly.  Being active helps but it is unrealistic, inefficient and unnatural to expect someone to spend an hour a day running in order to maintain body weight.  People you see eating fatty foods may tend to be fatter in general but that is probably because the fat tends to come paired with sugar, burgers with bun and fried, fat/sugary ice cream etc  Also if someone doesn't eat any fat and only eats carbs they will be thin but not necessarily healthy.

Just remember next time you finish off a decent sized meal and you are craving desert... are you hungry for more meat, eggs, butter and other fat?  Probably not, you will be eating ice cream, brownies, pie, cake, etc

Obviously the article is biased by the author's opinions but there are a lot of good points in there.


Weird, I can easily eat too many calories doing low carb. Gaining weight on low carb is just as easy as any other diet if you don't control your calories.
 
2013-02-16 10:15:46 PM  
So protein, veggies and good fat and avoid sugars, grains carbs and processed crap as much as possible. That's not "fad dieting", it's common sense.

Uhm, I realize that your raging mt dew diets are forcing you to rail against common sense, but unless you are performing heavy labor, shoving huge piles of pasta, sugar and starch down your fat face is bad for most people. There is pretty much no actual nutrition there, just energy that you are just going to pack onto your ass because you are a fat lazy slug.
 
2013-02-16 10:15:57 PM  

Horse Head Bookends: Doktor_Zhivago: That article was so full of shiat I don't even know where to start...

Lets ask Dr. Atkins about how awesome the low carb diet is... What's that? He died of a heart attack from his cholesterol clogged arteries?

Yeah... Why don't we just eat a little everything in moderation.  Seems to work better than OMG DON'T EAT [insert random fad food of the week here]!!
And people have been eating grains since well before the agricultural revolution. You think ancient peoples ate meat every day? Maybe once every few weeks if they were lucky.  Most of the time they subsisted on wild plants, like berries, fruits and starchy roots and wild grasses. OMG those are carbs?!?!?  Read a farking book before you start talking out of your ass author, god I hate cherry picked bullshiat articles. This current anti-gluten thing will turn out to be as big a pile of bullshiat as every other diet fad before it.  Someone explain to me how all of western civilization managed to survive since it began if everyone is so allergic to this horrible unhealthy gluten.  I think it doesn't matter what you eat as long as you exercise and your diet is not filled with refined sugar (the only point the author got right).  Our ancestors ate whatever the fark they could find but they were on their feet 12+ hours a day working their asses off chasing after deer and mammoths and shiat so they didn't turn into a bunch of diabetic fat farks.

/goes back to his job professionally sitting
//eats a loaf of bread out of spite.

Robert Atkins died from a head injury he suffered when he slipped on ice.


and I am very slow.
 
2013-02-16 10:16:41 PM  

Hobo Jr.: Babbs: Anyone ever notice that the obesity epidemic actually started when the government put out that stupid Food Pyramid with whole grains as the base? It's not a coincidence.

1950 something?

The balloning of America started in the 80s and 90s. About the time fast food exploded along with frozen meals and cheap chemically pumped boxed meals.


Nope. 1992.
 
2013-02-16 10:17:57 PM  

spidermilk: Stone Meadow: In before the Fark Vegans!

Actually, I used to be one of them. But being a vegan ballooned my weight into the obese range, made me a borderline pre-diabetic, gave me raging mood swings, and was all in all a miserable experience. Then I went on the New Atkins Diet, which reversed all of that: normal weight now, fasting blood sugar of 88, normal blood chemistry, no mood swings, and I love the food. I eat lots of eggs and meat, along with all the veggies I can stand, and two servings of fresh fruit a day. Just no wheat, rice, potatoes or pasta. The high fat content naturally turns off my appetite, so I consume fewer calories and have lost 40+ pounds.

If being a vegan means eating french fries, corn, and bread at every meal and forgetting to eat a variety of fruits and vegetables and a variety of sources of protein together (i.e. beans and rice) then yea, being a vegan is not healthy.

My FIL is "on Atkins" and does it completely wrong. He doesn't eat grains but he eats very fatty meats or processed meats, no fish, no vegetables (other than corn/potatoes!), lots of cheese. I haven't read the Atkins manual, but I am positive that CANNOT be what it says is healthy.

So basically, any diet done wrong is unhealthy. If I were willing to give up fish and eggs then I would easily be vegan and I am not chubby, cranky, tired, malnourished, etc. For those who haven't realized it, vegetables contain fat and protein. And grains are really handy to combine with vegetables to provide a complete protein.

/that said dude, if you found something that works for you then keep on it, because in reality all of our bodies are different and what works for some does not work for all. and congratulations on becoming healthy- everyone should have the joy of feeling good.


If he's eating potatoes, he definitely isn't doing it right.
 
2013-02-16 10:18:02 PM  

Babbs: Anyone ever notice that the obesity epidemic actually started when the government put out that stupid Food Pyramid with whole grains as the base? It's not a coincidence.


wat?

Whole grains are good for you. Processed grains aren't. Besides, whole grains have never been at the base- grains, minus the whole, are at the base. People have seen that and decided that they need to eat a lot of white bread, which is a problem. Seeing that and eating whole wheat bread isn't an issue, and you would be much better if you switched to whole grains entirely.
 
2013-02-16 10:18:30 PM  
Sounds about right to me.... Like the guy that got much healthier in only one month eating only fast food... By limiting his carbs and exercising a little.
 
2013-02-16 10:19:13 PM  

louiedog: Hobo Jr.: Don't eat grains?

What?

Their argument is wheat in large amounts is unhealthy. It is like the time I overheard a 300lbsreal women in a scooter telling her friend that bread was the worst thing to eat to lose weight.

No lady, stuffing your face with chocolate and lard is bad, having a piece of toast is fine.

I was in college when Atkins was at its peak. I was in the dining hall one day behind a woman at the station that made sandwiches to order. I'd say she was a bit north of 350 lbs. She asked for no bread because she wasn't eating carbs and then proceeded to motion the guy to keep piling the turkey onto her plate. I'd say there was at least a pound and a half when he stopped. Then came another half pound or more of cheese.

A few minutes later I bumped into her at the drink area where she lined all the free space on her tray with multiple glasses of cranberry juice cocktail, or whatever other similar sugared up juice they had that day. I don't recall what else she'd scrounged up for her meal in the meantime. I don't think she was doing it right, nor do I think she understood what carbs are.


There is the other problem with Americans health.

We now have three possibly four generations who are completely in the dark about how the body works in regard to the types of foods they put in their bodies.

Everyone has been told no carbs or no sugar or no eggs and they do not know how their bodies use the carbs and minerals and vitamins and sugars to survive.
 
2013-02-16 10:19:50 PM  

Amos Quito: Doktor_Zhivago: Wise_Guy: Doktor_Zhivago: That article was so full of shiat I don't even know where to start...

Lets ask Dr. Atkins about how awesome the low carb diet is... What's that? He died of a heart attack from his cholesterol clogged arteries?

Actually he died from head trauma.

Don't bother me with facts I was on a roll


Yeah, the point is HE DIED!!! so everything he said must have been wrong.


Damnit I'm drunk and I misremembered something I read a long time ago... Apparently the heart attack was in 2002 and didn't die.  Well if he wasn't so well lubricated by pork fat he wouldn't have slipped on that ice! It was seeping from his pores.
 
2013-02-16 10:20:00 PM  

cptjeff: Babbs: Anyone ever notice that the obesity epidemic actually started when the government put out that stupid Food Pyramid with whole grains as the base? It's not a coincidence.

wat?

Whole grains are good for you. Processed grains aren't. Besides, whole grains have never been at the base- grains, minus the whole, are at the base. People have seen that and decided that they need to eat a lot of white bread, which is a problem. Seeing that and eating whole wheat bread isn't an issue, and you would be much better if you switched to whole grains entirely.


I stand corrected. But I still think it's no coincidence.
 
2013-02-16 10:21:50 PM  

gadian: So, basically, eat what you like, look how you like, because something or other - probably cancer or heart attack - is going to kill you one day. No one has all of the answers because not everything works for everyone.

Bottom Line: Enjoy life.


or a stroke or diabetes. I have never really understood the 'everyone dies!' argument. I plan on dying, yes, but I don't plan on getting diabetes, losing my feet, my vision, destroying my joints from being overweight, becoming unable to walk, getting bedsores, painful infections that won't go away. It is like smokers who tell me that everyone is gonna die some day and then are unable to walk up a hill or play a game of softball. We're all going to die, but apparently they're not going to live either.
 
2013-02-16 10:23:12 PM  
All of the men in my family, going back 5 generations, have had the same body type. No matter what they eat, how they live, how active, inactive, whatever - same body type.

So fark it. I'll eat what I likes because I don't look like a male model and lost the genetic lottery. WOO!
 
2013-02-16 10:23:18 PM  

macil22: Controlling for the number of calories is silly.  In order for a diet to be realistic and sustainable people have to be able to eat until they are satiated.  What commonly happens on low fat diets is that people lose weight but ultimately feel starved because carb rich diet makes them hungry and they eventually cave in and eat more than before.


This.

That's one of the reasons that "calories in/calories out" people always annoy me. They're correct enough that you can't say they're wrong, but are missing factors that affect the in and out balance.
 
2013-02-16 10:23:21 PM  
I'm not going to lie, I lost a decent amount of weight and my blood work was perfect on a low carb diet, once I stopped absolutely stuffing my face, but that was because I couldn't eat any snack foods or food co workers brought in or milk shakes pretending to be coffee. I was still hungry all the time, but if I wanted to eat, I had to cook.
 
2013-02-16 10:23:28 PM  

Horse Head Bookends: Doktor_Zhivago: That article was so full of shiat I don't even know where to start...

Lets ask Dr. Atkins about how awesome the low carb diet is... What's that? He died of a heart attack from his cholesterol clogged arteries?

Yeah... Why don't we just eat a little everything in moderation.  Seems to work better than OMG DON'T EAT [insert random fad food of the week here]!!
And people have been eating grains since well before the agricultural revolution. You think ancient peoples ate meat every day? Maybe once every few weeks if they were lucky.  Most of the time they subsisted on wild plants, like berries, fruits and starchy roots and wild grasses. OMG those are carbs?!?!?  Read a farking book before you start talking out of your ass author, god I hate cherry picked bullshiat articles. This current anti-gluten thing will turn out to be as big a pile of bullshiat as every other diet fad before it.  Someone explain to me how all of western civilization managed to survive since it began if everyone is so allergic to this horrible unhealthy gluten.  I think it doesn't matter what you eat as long as you exercise and your diet is not filled with refined sugar (the only point the author got right).  Our ancestors ate whatever the fark they could find but they were on their feet 12+ hours a day working their asses off chasing after deer and mammoths and shiat so they didn't turn into a bunch of diabetic fat farks.

/goes back to his job professionally sitting
//eats a loaf of bread out of spite.

Robert Atkins died from a head injury he suffered when he slipped on ice.


he had a survivable cardiac infarction, but in falling suffered major head trauma

so yes he died of a Head Injury, but it was because a loss of body control from a heart issue

///like saying a person was killed by a Car, and ignore the drunk behind the wheel
 
2013-02-16 10:25:08 PM  

ModernLuddite: All of the men in my family, going back 5 generations, have had the same body type. No matter what they eat, how they live, how active, inactive, whatever - same body type.

So fark it. I'll eat what I likes because I don't look like a male model and lost the genetic lottery. WOO!


Whatever you gotta tell yourself.
 
2013-02-16 10:25:48 PM  

Jocundry: dolphinburger: this is a fabulous example of confirmation bias.

Yeah...when I got to the 'I'm a big fan of low carb diets' part, I gave up on the article. Big fan = not able to be unbiased.


Nobody can be unbiased. The best thing to do is to get your biases out in front of you and explain the theoretical framework behind your methodologies and interpretation so that people understand your perspective. This is particularly important in nutrition with suffers from a lot of undeclared biases. And the biggest factor I think is one's own gut bacteria which ultimately dictates how things get processed and metabolized. Hence different people will react differently to different diets, and confusion reigns supreme because there is no "one size fits all" diet.

Hence saying things like "I am a fan of x-type diets" is a very useful thing to say to the audience and should be applauded rather than slammed.
 
2013-02-16 10:26:02 PM  
The problem is almost everything we eat is fake, maple syrup is not even maple syrup anymore.
 
2013-02-16 10:26:21 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: macil22: Hobo Jr.: Don't eat grains?

What?

Their argument is wheat in large amounts is unhealthy. It is like the time I overheard a 300lbsreal women in a scooter telling her friend that bread was the worst thing to eat to lose weight.

No lady, stuffing your face with chocolate and lard is bad, having a piece of toast is fine.

The problem with your example is that people aren't making those simple decisions like that.  There is actually little difference between eating a piece of toast and eating a piece of chocolate and as the article says, the lard itself would be fine, but combined with sugar it is not.

If someone ate lard until they were full with no sugar/carbs they would not gain weight.  It is not as simple as telling people to eat less because the sugars/carbs they are eating will make them hungry again very quickly.  Being active helps but it is unrealistic, inefficient and unnatural to expect someone to spend an hour a day running in order to maintain body weight.  People you see eating fatty foods may tend to be fatter in general but that is probably because the fat tends to come paired with sugar, burgers with bun and fried, fat/sugary ice cream etc  Also if someone doesn't eat any fat and only eats carbs they will be thin but not necessarily healthy.

Just remember next time you finish off a decent sized meal and you are craving desert... are you hungry for more meat, eggs, butter and other fat?  Probably not, you will be eating ice cream, brownies, pie, cake, etc

Obviously the article is biased by the author's opinions but there are a lot of good points in there.

Weird, I can easily eat too many calories doing low carb. Gaining weight on low carb is just as easy as any other diet if you don't control your calories.


If you eat a diet with almost no carbs then you will not gain weight unless you are under weight.  If you switch to a high fat diet for a week and go right back to your usual routine then you will probably gain weight.  Give you body time to adjust and you will get full when you eat high fat.  You will soon find that you probably only get hungry about once per day.  If you gain weight and keep getting hungry it means you are not following the diet.
 
2013-02-16 10:26:34 PM  
Biggest health problem in the US:  Too many groceries, not enough work.

/Been preaching this since early 70's.
//Retired nutritionist.
 
2013-02-16 10:27:00 PM  

thenumber5: Horse Head Bookends: Doktor_Zhivago: That article was so full of shiat I don't even know where to start...

Lets ask Dr. Atkins about how awesome the low carb diet is... What's that? He died of a heart attack from his cholesterol clogged arteries?

Yeah... Why don't we just eat a little everything in moderation.  Seems to work better than OMG DON'T EAT [insert random fad food of the week here]!!
And people have been eating grains since well before the agricultural revolution. You think ancient peoples ate meat every day? Maybe once every few weeks if they were lucky.  Most of the time they subsisted on wild plants, like berries, fruits and starchy roots and wild grasses. OMG those are carbs?!?!?  Read a farking book before you start talking out of your ass author, god I hate cherry picked bullshiat articles. This current anti-gluten thing will turn out to be as big a pile of bullshiat as every other diet fad before it.  Someone explain to me how all of western civilization managed to survive since it began if everyone is so allergic to this horrible unhealthy gluten.  I think it doesn't matter what you eat as long as you exercise and your diet is not filled with refined sugar (the only point the author got right).  Our ancestors ate whatever the fark they could find but they were on their feet 12+ hours a day working their asses off chasing after deer and mammoths and shiat so they didn't turn into a bunch of diabetic fat farks.

/goes back to his job professionally sitting
//eats a loaf of bread out of spite.

Robert Atkins died from a head injury he suffered when he slipped on ice.

he had a survivable cardiac infarction, but in falling suffered major head trauma

so yes he died of a Head Injury, but it was because a loss of body control from a heart issue

///like saying a person was killed by a Car, and ignore the drunk behind the wheel


He slipped on some farking ice.
 
2013-02-16 10:27:09 PM  
Every time you read a study or what you are given as a study, post spin, or any article about  anything that's supposed to create a sense of urgency, just remember one thing.  Somebody is selling something.  Everything after that makes perfect sense.
 
2013-02-16 10:28:24 PM  
Has anyone noticed that "mainstream nutrition" has been gradually moving towards the high-fat, low-carb philosophy?  Back in the 80s/90s it was all: eat all the carbs you like, desserts are okay if they are low fat, minimize meat, eggs are really bad for you, you don't need that much protein because it usually comes with fat.  Now, it's shifting towards: limit processed carbs, try to cut out sugar, eggs are good for you, eat lots of healthy fat(olive oil, avocado), you also need a lot of protein to fill you up.

I know I'm simplifying a bit, and I don't think one diet necessarily works for everyone, but there has been a shift towards lower carb going on for a while.
 
2013-02-16 10:28:30 PM  

neongoats: So protein, veggies and good fat and avoid sugars, grains carbs and processed crap as much as possible. That's not "fad dieting", it's common sense.

Uhm, I realize that your raging mt dew diets are forcing you to rail against common sense, but unless you are performing heavy labor, shoving huge piles of pasta, sugar and starch down your fat face is bad for most people. There is pretty much no actual nutrition there, just energy that you are just going to pack onto your ass because you are a fat lazy slug.


I just want to point out that if you really think that grains have 'no nutrition' it is possible you don't understand why the invention of agriculture was so important. All grains contain protein. The protein is not a complete protein that provides all of the amino acids we need (like animal protein), but if you combine different grains and vegetables then you WILL have a complete protein. That is why grains and vegetables CAN provide a healthy diet, just like meat and vegetables CAN provide a healthy diet. The problem, clearly, is that people go overboard and do it wrong.
 
2013-02-16 10:29:06 PM  

macil22: Shakin_Haitian: macil22: Hobo Jr.: Don't eat grains?

What?

Their argument is wheat in large amounts is unhealthy. It is like the time I overheard a 300lbsreal women in a scooter telling her friend that bread was the worst thing to eat to lose weight.

No lady, stuffing your face with chocolate and lard is bad, having a piece of toast is fine.

The problem with your example is that people aren't making those simple decisions like that.  There is actually little difference between eating a piece of toast and eating a piece of chocolate and as the article says, the lard itself would be fine, but combined with sugar it is not.

If someone ate lard until they were full with no sugar/carbs they would not gain weight.  It is not as simple as telling people to eat less because the sugars/carbs they are eating will make them hungry again very quickly.  Being active helps but it is unrealistic, inefficient and unnatural to expect someone to spend an hour a day running in order to maintain body weight.  People you see eating fatty foods may tend to be fatter in general but that is probably because the fat tends to come paired with sugar, burgers with bun and fried, fat/sugary ice cream etc  Also if someone doesn't eat any fat and only eats carbs they will be thin but not necessarily healthy.

Just remember next time you finish off a decent sized meal and you are craving desert... are you hungry for more meat, eggs, butter and other fat?  Probably not, you will be eating ice cream, brownies, pie, cake, etc

Obviously the article is biased by the author's opinions but there are a lot of good points in there.

Weird, I can easily eat too many calories doing low carb. Gaining weight on low carb is just as easy as any other diet if you don't control your calories.

If you eat a diet with almost no carbs then you will not gain weight unless you are under weight.  If you switch to a high fat diet for a week and go right back to your usual routine then you will probably gain weight.  Give you body time to adjust and you will get full when you eat high fat.  You will soon find that you probably only get hungry about once per day.  If you gain weight and keep getting hungry it means you are not following the diet.


Yeah I was eating less than 15 grams of carbs a day. You can get fat on a low carb diet if you eat enough calories. It's not some sort of Jesus magicking the calories away.
 
2013-02-16 10:29:26 PM  

Babbs: Hobo Jr.: Babbs: Anyone ever notice that the obesity epidemic actually started when the government put out that stupid Food Pyramid with whole grains as the base? It's not a coincidence.

1950 something?

The balloning of America started in the 80s and 90s. About the time fast food exploded along with frozen meals and cheap chemically pumped boxed meals.

Nope. 1992.


Obesity rates started going up in America in the 1960s and ballooned in the 1980s.
 
2013-02-16 10:29:43 PM  
A lot of the article should be taken with a grain of salt, like the information they are trying to counter. I am amused though by all the but hurt from people when it comes to articles about this. People take news other people heard on the Internet and hold it as fact and get all bent out of shape when that information is challenged.
 
2013-02-16 10:31:34 PM  

Farnn: Has anyone noticed that "mainstream nutrition" has been gradually moving towards the high-fat, low-carb philosophy?  Back in the 80s/90s it was all: eat all the carbs you like, desserts are okay if they are low fat, minimize meat, eggs are really bad for you, you don't need that much protein because it usually comes with fat.  Now, it's shifting towards: limit processed carbs, try to cut out sugar, eggs are good for you, eat lots of healthy fat(olive oil, avocado), you also need a lot of protein to fill you up.

I know I'm simplifying a bit, and I don't think one diet necessarily works for everyone, but there has been a shift towards lower carb going on for a while.


And that is exactly my point. The 80's and 90's is when the obesity epidemic was starting. Too much sugar, whether in bread or "low fat" foods that add extra sugar to make it more appealing.
 
2013-02-16 10:31:41 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: macil22: Shakin_Haitian: macil22: Hobo Jr.: Don't eat grains?

What?

Their argument is wheat in large amounts is unhealthy. It is like the time I overheard a 300lbsreal women in a scooter telling her friend that bread was the worst thing to eat to lose weight.

No lady, stuffing your face with chocolate and lard is bad, having a piece of toast is fine.

The problem with your example is that people aren't making those simple decisions like that.  There is actually little difference between eating a piece of toast and eating a piece of chocolate and as the article says, the lard itself would be fine, but combined with sugar it is not.

If someone ate lard until they were full with no sugar/carbs they would not gain weight.  It is not as simple as telling people to eat less because the sugars/carbs they are eating will make them hungry again very quickly.  Being active helps but it is unrealistic, inefficient and unnatural to expect someone to spend an hour a day running in order to maintain body weight.  People you see eating fatty foods may tend to be fatter in general but that is probably because the fat tends to come paired with sugar, burgers with bun and fried, fat/sugary ice cream etc  Also if someone doesn't eat any fat and only eats carbs they will be thin but not necessarily healthy.

Just remember next time you finish off a decent sized meal and you are craving desert... are you hungry for more meat, eggs, butter and other fat?  Probably not, you will be eating ice cream, brownies, pie, cake, etc

Obviously the article is biased by the author's opinions but there are a lot of good points in there.

Weird, I can easily eat too many calories doing low carb. Gaining weight on low carb is just as easy as any other diet if you don't control your calories.

If you eat a diet with almost no carbs then you will not gain weight unless you are under weight.  If you switch to a high fat diet for a week and go right back to your usual routine then you will probably gai ...


Of course calories are not "magicked" away.  But you will eventually eat fewer calories because your body will be satiated.
 
2013-02-16 10:34:58 PM  

Babbs: Farnn: Has anyone noticed that "mainstream nutrition" has been gradually moving towards the high-fat, low-carb philosophy?  Back in the 80s/90s it was all: eat all the carbs you like, desserts are okay if they are low fat, minimize meat, eggs are really bad for you, you don't need that much protein because it usually comes with fat.  Now, it's shifting towards: limit processed carbs, try to cut out sugar, eggs are good for you, eat lots of healthy fat(olive oil, avocado), you also need a lot of protein to fill you up.

I know I'm simplifying a bit, and I don't think one diet necessarily works for everyone, but there has been a shift towards lower carb going on for a while.

And that is exactly my point. The 80's and 90's is when the obesity epidemic was starting. Too much sugar, whether in bread or "low fat" foods that add extra sugar to make it more appealing.


The low fat thinking actually started a lot earlier, in the 60's or so.  I only mentioned the 80's/90's because I was actually alive at the time and remember it.
 
2013-02-16 10:35:00 PM  

Jocundry: Babbs: Hobo Jr.: Babbs: Anyone ever notice that the obesity epidemic actually started when the government put out that stupid Food Pyramid with whole grains as the base? It's not a coincidence.

1950 something?

The balloning of America started in the 80s and 90s. About the time fast food exploded along with frozen meals and cheap chemically pumped boxed meals.

Nope. 1992.

Obesity rates started going up in America in the 1960s and ballooned in the 1980s.


Wrong. Look it up. I was a child of the 60's and 70's. You did not see the amount of fatties you do now. It's all the processed carbs.
 
2013-02-16 10:35:18 PM  
FTFA: "The most common grain in the western diet, by far, is wheat... "

Pretty sure it's corn..
 
2013-02-16 10:36:26 PM  

frizzantik: FTFA: "The most common grain in the western diet, by far, is wheat... "

Pretty sure it's corn..


That's another lie. Corn is a vegetable.
 
2013-02-16 10:36:35 PM  

frizzantik: FTFA: "The most common grain in the western diet, by far, is wheat... "

Pretty sure it's corn..


I guess if you count sugar derived from corn rather than sugar derived from cane.
 
2013-02-16 10:36:37 PM  
Hey guys.. Someone told me he slipped on some ice.  12 times.  Thanks..


/fark up one time....
 
2013-02-16 10:37:38 PM  

macil22: Shakin_Haitian: macil22: Shakin_Haitian: macil22: Hobo Jr.: Don't eat grains?

What?

Their argument is wheat in large amounts is unhealthy. It is like the time I overheard a 300lbsreal women in a scooter telling her friend that bread was the worst thing to eat to lose weight.

No lady, stuffing your face with chocolate and lard is bad, having a piece of toast is fine.

The problem with your example is that people aren't making those simple decisions like that.  There is actually little difference between eating a piece of toast and eating a piece of chocolate and as the article says, the lard itself would be fine, but combined with sugar it is not.

If someone ate lard until they were full with no sugar/carbs they would not gain weight.  It is not as simple as telling people to eat less because the sugars/carbs they are eating will make them hungry again very quickly.  Being active helps but it is unrealistic, inefficient and unnatural to expect someone to spend an hour a day running in order to maintain body weight.  People you see eating fatty foods may tend to be fatter in general but that is probably because the fat tends to come paired with sugar, burgers with bun and fried, fat/sugary ice cream etc  Also if someone doesn't eat any fat and only eats carbs they will be thin but not necessarily healthy.

Just remember next time you finish off a decent sized meal and you are craving desert... are you hungry for more meat, eggs, butter and other fat?  Probably not, you will be eating ice cream, brownies, pie, cake, etc

Obviously the article is biased by the author's opinions but there are a lot of good points in there.

Weird, I can easily eat too many calories doing low carb. Gaining weight on low carb is just as easy as any other diet if you don't control your calories.

If you eat a diet with almost no carbs then you will not gain weight unless you are under weight.  If you switch to a high fat diet for a week and go right back to your usual routine then you will probably gai ...

Of course calories are not "magicked" away.  But you will eventually eat fewer calories because your body will be satiated.


No, I was pretty hungry. I was just too lazy to cook.
 
2013-02-16 10:37:56 PM  

Babbs: Jocundry: Babbs: Hobo Jr.: Babbs: Anyone ever notice that the obesity epidemic actually started when the government put out that stupid Food Pyramid with whole grains as the base? It's not a coincidence.

1950 something?

The balloning of America started in the 80s and 90s. About the time fast food exploded along with frozen meals and cheap chemically pumped boxed meals.

Nope. 1992.

Obesity rates started going up in America in the 1960s and ballooned in the 1980s.

Wrong. Look it up. I was a child of the 60's and 70's. You did not see the amount of fatties you do now. It's all the processed carbs.


Hence the "started going up".  You saw more back then than you saw in the 40's and 50's, but not nearly the amount that we have today.
 
2013-02-16 10:38:22 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: Hey guys.. Someone told me he slipped on some ice.  12 times.  Thanks..


/fark up one time....


HE SLIPPED ON ICE MORON
 
2013-02-16 10:39:40 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: Doktor_Zhivago: Hey guys.. Someone told me he slipped on some ice.  12 times.  Thanks..


/fark up one time....

HE SLIPPED ON ICE MORON


:'(
 
2013-02-16 10:40:19 PM  

Farnn: Babbs: Farnn: Has anyone noticed that "mainstream nutrition" has been gradually moving towards the high-fat, low-carb philosophy?  Back in the 80s/90s it was all: eat all the carbs you like, desserts are okay if they are low fat, minimize meat, eggs are really bad for you, you don't need that much protein because it usually comes with fat.  Now, it's shifting towards: limit processed carbs, try to cut out sugar, eggs are good for you, eat lots of healthy fat(olive oil, avocado), you also need a lot of protein to fill you up.

I know I'm simplifying a bit, and I don't think one diet necessarily works for everyone, but there has been a shift towards lower carb going on for a while.

And that is exactly my point. The 80's and 90's is when the obesity epidemic was starting. Too much sugar, whether in bread or "low fat" foods that add extra sugar to make it more appealing.

The low fat thinking actually started a lot earlier, in the 60's or so.  I only mentioned the 80's/90's because I was actually alive at the time and remember it.


Well, I was alive in the 60's and 70's, and the "Low Fat" trend started in the late 70's/80's.
 
2013-02-16 10:40:23 PM  
Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."
Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible.
 
2013-02-16 10:40:44 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: macil22: Shakin_Haitian: macil22: Hobo Jr.: Don't eat grains?

What?

Their argument is wheat in large amounts is unhealthy. It is like the time I overheard a 300lbsreal women in a scooter telling her friend that bread was the worst thing to eat to lose weight.

No lady, stuffing your face with chocolate and lard is bad, having a piece of toast is fine.

The problem with your example is that people aren't making those simple decisions like that.  There is actually little difference between eating a piece of toast and eating a piece of chocolate and as the article says, the lard itself would be fine, but combined with sugar it is not.

If someone ate lard until they were full with no sugar/carbs they would not gain weight.  It is not as simple as telling people to eat less because the sugars/carbs they are eating will make them hungry again very quickly.  Being active helps but it is unrealistic, inefficient and unnatural to expect someone to spend an hour a day running in order to maintain body weight.  People you see eating fatty foods may tend to be fatter in general but that is probably because the fat tends to come paired with sugar, burgers with bun and fried, fat/sugary ice cream etc  Also if someone doesn't eat any fat and only eats carbs they will be thin but not necessarily healthy.

Just remember next time you finish off a decent sized meal and you are craving desert... are you hungry for more meat, eggs, butter and other fat?  Probably not, you will be eating ice cream, brownies, pie, cake, etc

Obviously the article is biased by the author's opinions but there are a lot of good points in there.

Weird, I can easily eat too many calories doing low carb. Gaining weight on low carb is just as easy as any other diet if you don't control your calories.

If you eat a diet with almost no carbs then you will not gain weight unless you are under weight.  If you switch to a high fat diet for a week and go right back to your usual routine then you will probably gai ...


And I cannot trust you when you say you were eating 15 grams of carbs per day.  People are not good at accurately monitoring what they eat at that level of detail, and it is too easy for someone to cheat and forget to count things.  You also likely forgot to count beer/wine in there too.  And then you didn't mention how long you were on your diet and how consistent you were.  You also don't say what your starting weight was, what your blood pressure and blood sugar were.  If you were already at a healthy weight you will not lose weight but you weight fluctuates naturally throughout the day by several pounds.

If I had to guess you tried it for a week, didn't count the ketchup, bbq sauce and croutons towards your carbs.  Then you probably drank lots of low fat milk which of course gives you lots of lactose which most people forget.  And you weighed yourself at some random time and saw that you gained 2-3 pounds vs the previous random time you weighted yourself and declared the diet a failure.
 
2013-02-16 10:41:57 PM  
The first and most destructive example of the author's bias: he decides what counts as "mainstream nutrition."
 
2013-02-16 10:43:56 PM  

BolloxReader: Jocundry: dolphinburger: this is a fabulous example of confirmation bias.

Yeah...when I got to the 'I'm a big fan of low carb diets' part, I gave up on the article. Big fan = not able to be unbiased.

Nobody can be unbiased. The best thing to do is to get your biases out in front of you and explain the theoretical framework behind your methodologies and interpretation so that people understand your perspective. This is particularly important in nutrition with suffers from a lot of undeclared biases. And the biggest factor I think is one's own gut bacteria which ultimately dictates how things get processed and metabolized. Hence different people will react differently to different diets, and confusion reigns supreme because there is no "one size fits all" diet.

Hence saying things like "I am a fan of x-type diets" is a very useful thing to say to the audience and should be applauded rather than slammed.


I saw nothing in this article that showed the author's credentials. Why should I trust anything she wrote? Why should I trust her ability to read a study and understand data?

Why should I care if some person states they like something but doesn't try to convince me they are an authority on the subject?
 
2013-02-16 10:44:21 PM  
No competent nutritionist has said that eggs are bad for you in 20 years, they need to quit reading old ass information.  As for the rest of that article, well it's just as useless and misinformed.
 
2013-02-16 10:44:52 PM  
Brown eggs are local eggs, and local eggs are fresh!
 
2013-02-16 10:45:38 PM  

Babbs: Jocundry: Babbs: Hobo Jr.: Babbs: Anyone ever notice that the obesity epidemic actually started when the government put out that stupid Food Pyramid with whole grains as the base? It's not a coincidence.

1950 something?

The balloning of America started in the 80s and 90s. About the time fast food exploded along with frozen meals and cheap chemically pumped boxed meals.

Nope. 1992.

Obesity rates started going up in America in the 1960s and ballooned in the 1980s.

Wrong. Look it up. I was a child of the 60's and 70's. You did not see the amount of fatties you do now. It's all the processed carbs.


I did look it up. That's why I wrote what I did.
 
2013-02-16 10:47:32 PM  
Farnn:

...and I don't think one diet necessarily works for everyone...

Why not?  Outside of genetic conditions, everyone's body is built essentially the same way and reacts to input (nutrients) the same way.  Essentially one diet should work for the vast majority of people.

Fat storage is about a lot about insulin levels and a little about calorie intake.
 
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