fredklein: The Larch: fredklein: And that's the problem. People should not have to deal with the results of other people's choices.That is the single most stupid thing I have ever read in my life.If I have a huge debt due to gambling, should YOU have to pay it? Of course not- it's MY problem.
Baryogenesis: redmid17: To pretend that men and women are equal in the matter of preventing pregnancies is a complete folly and anyone who thinks they are even close is a fool.I'll expand on this point. I'm not contending men and women are equal in their options for preventing pregnancy. In fact, I've been saying the whole thread how biology makes men and women very unequal with regard to pregnancy. Men don't have as many options for prevention, but they also don't have to deal with actually being pregnant, possibly getting an abortion, giving birth and, in some cases, they can walk away with no ramifications at all (1 night stands, ineffective enforcement of child support or just outright lying to the girl, e.g. fake name).The situation isn't equal, but I'd rather have a system that makes both parents responsible for a child instead of just the mother. And yes, divorce, custody and child support all need reforms, but the solution isn't just to give men a free pass to fark without being responsible for the child they helped create.
Baryogenesis: Congress just passed a law making the username "fredklein" carry a fine of $10,000. You didn't vote for it, but you still have to deal with the result.
The Larch: And, if you really are one of those aspie psuedo-libertarians who imagines that he should go through life entirely removed from the burden of living in society, go live in the desert. The rest of us are sick of your shiat.
arentol: GAT_00: antidisestablishmentarianism: Jesda: GAT_00: antidisestablishmentarianism: GAT_00: Oh look, supposed personal experience used to condemn the system as a whole.I got a bit off topic but the main problem is that a father is a father after conception whether he want's to be or not. After conception a mother has the choice to abort the baby or give it up for adoption.Which is in fact still completely off topic.Topics can expand and diverge if they want. Whiner.Exactly. Not to call GAT_00 out but I know he is pro choice for women. In an endlessly gray area like this how can you not be pro-choice for men too?Having to take responsibility for a child changed my life, it's hard to wonder what would have happened if I had the choice not to be forced to take responsibility for a child I wasn't ready for and didn't want to raise with that person.In short, until men can carry a fetus to term without being transgender, or until we get fully functional ecotanks where a fetus can grow to term outside a human body, the right to decide what to do with a pregnancy should ultimately be biased towards the women. And the guy who impregnates her is responsible.If one were to apply actual logic they would apply 100% bias towards the child.I find it intensely hilarious (and sad) that almost everyone who is anti-gun because they want to "protect the children" are also pro-choice. I can't fathom how they manage to lie to themselves that much without their heads exploding from the massive amount of hypocrisy contained therein.
Baryogenesis: Flint Ironstag: Both made the mistake, yet now he has no say but can be forced to pay up for twenty yearsAnd your solution to both people making the mistake is to let one of them completely opt out of responsibility. How are you not getting this? You can't complain about the situation being unfair and then turn around and propose a solution that is even more unequal.
Flint Ironstag: Baryogenesis: Flint Ironstag: Both made the mistake, yet now he has no say but can be forced to pay up for twenty yearsAnd your solution to both people making the mistake is to let one of them completely opt out of responsibility. How are you not getting this? You can't complain about the situation being unfair and then turn around and propose a solution that is even more unequal.She can opt out completely. There's the morning after pill or, if too late, then abortion. Unless you think a woman having an abortion is more traumatic for her than it is for a man to have his child abortion by a woman where he wants to keep it but she doesn't. She can do that without him having any say.
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