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(WTKR)   Pizza shop offers 15 percent discount on pies to gun owners, will never be robbed   (wtkr.com) divider line 210
    More: Spiffy, Virginia Beach, gun owners, discounts, Virginia Beach pizza shop  
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4863 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2013 at 4:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-16 06:13:23 PM

noitsnot: unamused: propasaurus: unamused: propasaurus: Really?

*snip*

that no one with a gun could be a potential robber.

That would be as silly as saying that anyone with a gun is a potential robber.  Or that a gun can turn a good person bad.  Or that a vagina can turn a woman into a prostitute against her will.

/memorizing a few logical fallacies no more makes one a logician than having a vagina makes a woman a prostitute.

No, he was saying that someone who is robber could have a gun. I know this, because that's what he said and I read it - so mote it be.


And robbers are well noted for leaving their gun in the car when it is against the rules to bring it in to the restaurant.
 
2013-02-16 06:19:14 PM

Fubini: elkboy: The odds of your family being shot in a restaurant is based on the number of guns inside (or within range) of said restaurant... I'd simply take my business elsewhere.

Just as I won't let my kids play at houses of gun-owning neighbors.

It's math, biatches.

You and your kids are roughly as likely to die from the flu as you are from an accidental gunshot. This is true even considering the extremely low morbidity rate of the flu in young people.

You can live your life in fear if you want, but statistically nothing is going to happen. It's math, idiot.


Oooooh ...I smell an anti-vaxer! You don't vaccinate your kids either, do you? A small risk reduction does not justify a small action to reduce that risk ?

Really?

Here's the funny part... The math has already been done for both of us. Our disagreement can not change that.

In fact, guns kept in the home are 43 times more likely to be used to kill someone known to the family than to be used to kill in self-defense

Now, you'll claim that the rise of death incidents is either smaller than reported, or a left-wing conspiracy... And there are plenty of websites to back you up... So I'm willing to stipulate that there is plenty of "evidence" that guns in households make children safer and not more likely to die (as the study above indicates if you care to read).

//say hi to Jenny for me.
 
2013-02-16 06:19:19 PM

LordJiro: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Since the owner open carries, one would think if a robber shows up one of them would leave in a body bag, and not the owner.

Unless the guy is quick on the draw, a robber will have the advantage. And the owner open-carrying will make any potential robbers more likely to shoot first.


This exactly.  i know if i was looking for a place to rob I would pick the place where I know there is at least one gun and it's possible that every employee and customer could be armed.  You know, cause that's a far better option than robbing Dominos where they expressly forbid their employees from being armed and are told to immediately hand over all the cash when robbed.
 
2013-02-16 06:21:55 PM

PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper


You have that luxury (to be a complete douchebag) because concealed carry licenses are issued only to the well-connected in CA. Their lives are more important than the lives of the folks you like to screw with. Normal folks have to carry unloaded in the open, while your betters get to carry concealed and you never get a chance to be a prick about it.
 
2013-02-16 06:24:44 PM

elkboy: Fubini: elkboy: The odds of your family being shot in a restaurant is based on the number of guns inside (or within range) of said restaurant... I'd simply take my business elsewhere.

Just as I won't let my kids play at houses of gun-owning neighbors.

It's math, biatches.

You and your kids are roughly as likely to die from the flu as you are from an accidental gunshot. This is true even considering the extremely low morbidity rate of the flu in young people.

You can live your life in fear if you want, but statistically nothing is going to happen. It's math, idiot.

Oooooh ...I smell an anti-vaxer! You don't vaccinate your kids either, do you? A small risk reduction does not justify a small action to reduce that risk ?

Really?

Here's the funny part... The math has already been done for both of us. Our disagreement can not change that.

In fact, guns kept in the home are 43 times more likely to be used to kill someone known to the family than to be used to kill in self-defense

Now, you'll claim that the rise of death incidents is either smaller than reported, or a left-wing conspiracy... And there are plenty of websites to back you up... So I'm willing to stipulate that there is plenty of "evidence" that guns in households make children safer and not more likely to die (as the study above indicates if you care to read).

//say hi to Jenny for me.


You are aware that the Kellerman Study has been debunked and even Arthur Kellerman himself doesn't stand by it, right?  Or did you just google a tidbit that fit your bias and not bother to research it?
 
2013-02-16 06:26:29 PM

PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper


You are what's wrong with this country, and CA in particular.

/lives in CA so has room to comment.
 
2013-02-16 06:26:37 PM

Callous: You are aware that the Kellerman Study has been debunked and even Arthur Kellerman himself doesn't stand by it, right?


[citation needed}
 
2013-02-16 06:27:50 PM
elkboy: In fact, guns kept in the home are 43 times more likely to be used to kill someone known to the family than to be used to kill in self-defense

Well, the definition of 'Known to the family' is rather generous, and in any case, someone 'known to the family' can be a threat that requires a response.

Further, because your citation says 'Known to the family' instead of 'accidental (negligent discharge, misidentified a family member as a home invader, etc), one might be suspicious that you're being lied to with statistics.

'Accidental', as a defined term, excludes legitimate self defense. 'Killing someone known to the family' is a term with all kinds of room to fudge.
 
2013-02-16 06:29:24 PM
We've already established that you're a pizza parlor. I'm just negotiating the price.
 
2013-02-16 06:30:14 PM

jaytkay: Callous: You are aware that the Kellerman Study has been debunked and even Arthur Kellerman himself doesn't stand by it, right?

[citation needed}


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kellermann

http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kellerman-schaffer.html

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=717

Shall I continue?
 
2013-02-16 06:31:44 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: unamused: propasaurus: unamused: propasaurus: Really?

*snip*

that no one with a gun could be a potential robber.

That would be as silly as saying that anyone with a gun is a potential robber.  Or that a gun can turn a good person bad.  Or that a vagina can turn a woman into a prostitute against her will.

/memorizing a few logical fallacies no more makes one a logician than having a vagina makes a woman a prostitute.

Please leave your genital obsession out of your gun talk, kthanks.


Damn, sorry I let you in on it.  Your parents apparently did an excellent job of hiding it from you.  But, since I already let it slip, you may as well know for sure; women have vaginas.

When you hit the seventh grade, your buddies will start letting you know what they are for.
 
2013-02-16 06:35:18 PM

MarkEC: Real Women Drink Akvavit: MarkEC: The My Little Pony Killer: Slappajo: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

So you'd be ok with a restaurant not serving the negroes?

Because choosing to carry a gun everywhere you go is just like being born black.

In most states, a business can have a no-gun policy, but must have it posted on the entrance. If it doesn't, it doesn't have a no-gun policy and can't ask you to leave simply because you have a gun.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a very popular bit of signage in this state. You don't need a reason, either. Don't want to serve someone, just tell them to leave and they must leave.

And they get sued for having a hidden policy once a class action attorney sees enough of a pattern. Like I said, a no-gun policy requires a sign at the entrance. If you had that policy, why wouldn't you post a sign at the door instead of confronting people after they are in your business? That would be just asinine.


No, she's absolutely right. Pattern or no pattern, you don't have to allow people into your business that you don't want to.
 
2013-02-16 06:35:23 PM

elkboy: Fubini: elkboy: The odds of your family being shot in a restaurant is based on the number of guns inside (or within range) of said restaurant... I'd simply take my business elsewhere.

Just as I won't let my kids play at houses of gun-owning neighbors.

It's math, biatches.

You and your kids are roughly as likely to die from the flu as you are from an accidental gunshot. This is true even considering the extremely low morbidity rate of the flu in young people.

You can live your life in fear if you want, but statistically nothing is going to happen. It's math, idiot.

Oooooh ...I smell an anti-vaxer! You don't vaccinate your kids either, do you? A small risk reduction does not justify a small action to reduce that risk ?

Really?

Here's the funny part... The math has already been done for both of us. Our disagreement can not change that.

In fact, guns kept in the home are 43 times more likely to be used to kill someone known to the family than to be used to kill in self-defense

Now, you'll claim that the rise of death incidents is either smaller than reported, or a left-wing conspiracy... And there are plenty of websites to back you up... So I'm willing to stipulate that there is plenty of "evidence" that guns in households make children safer and not more likely to die (as the study above indicates if you care to read).

//say hi to Jenny for me.


This is why I guffawed when someone up-thread used the phrase "smart enough to be carrying a gun."

Guns are like cigarettes:  it's your right to use them, but if you choose to exercise that right, statistically they will only kill you or your loved ones.

But that's ok, I have risky hobbies that I enjoy even though I know they are dangerous.

It's the people who claim to own guns "for protection" that can pretty much be written off as idiots.
 
2013-02-16 06:36:04 PM

bestie1: Yakk: unamused: propasaurus: Really? You don't think someone with a gun might decide they'd rather get a 100% discount?

Because having a gun makes everyone a potential robber; just like having a pussy turns all women into hookers.

We are more concerned about the robbers with the guns then the hookers with the pussys.

How about robbers with pussies? That could be kind of hot.


Hookers with guns are more common.
 
2013-02-16 06:38:37 PM

Fubini: elkboy: The odds of your family being shot in a restaurant is based on the number of guns inside (or within range) of said restaurant... I'd simply take my business elsewhere.

Just as I won't let my kids play at houses of gun-owning neighbors.

It's math, biatches.

You and your kids are roughly as likely to die from the flu as you are from an accidental gunshot. This is true even considering the extremely low morbidity rate of the flu in young people.

You can live your life in fear if you want, but statistically nothing is going to happen. It's math, idiot.


LOL!  just like a gun control guy talking to a gun-rights guy!
 
2013-02-16 06:42:18 PM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: MarkEC: The My Little Pony Killer: Slappajo: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

So you'd be ok with a restaurant not serving the negroes?

Because choosing to carry a gun everywhere you go is just like being born black.

In most states, a business can have a no-gun policy, but must have it posted on the entrance. If it doesn't, it doesn't have a no-gun policy and can't ask you to leave simply because you have a gun.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a very popular bit of signage in this state. You don't need a reason, either. Don't want to serve someone, just tell them to leave and they must leave.


But if you have already served them, you are stuck with them.  You can't sell them nachos then throw them out before they can eat them.
 
2013-02-16 06:43:26 PM

PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper


I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshiat on this one.
 
2013-02-16 06:45:03 PM

unamused: Real Women Drink Akvavit: MarkEC: The My Little Pony Killer: Slappajo: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

So you'd be ok with a restaurant not serving the negroes?

Because choosing to carry a gun everywhere you go is just like being born black.

In most states, a business can have a no-gun policy, but must have it posted on the entrance. If it doesn't, it doesn't have a no-gun policy and can't ask you to leave simply because you have a gun.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a very popular bit of signage in this state. You don't need a reason, either. Don't want to serve someone, just tell them to leave and they must leave.

But if you have already served them, you are stuck with them.  You can't sell them nachos then throw them out before they can eat them.


I'd agree with that.  You have a dine-in business, and you served them, so as long as they aren't causing a problem they can stay.
 
2013-02-16 06:45:27 PM

Abox: LordJiro: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Since the owner open carries, one would think if a robber shows up one of them would leave in a body bag, and not the owner.

Unless the guy is quick on the draw, a robber will have the advantage. And the owner open-carrying will make any potential robbers more likely to shoot first.

Why would they rob the one place that they know has a gun-carrying owner when there are plenty of other places to rob.


Because in addition to the cash, they will be getting more free guns!
 
2013-02-16 06:45:33 PM

shda5582: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

You are what's wrong with this country, and CA in particular.

/lives in CA so has room to comment.


Gun owners should have the same rights as breastfeeding mothers.  Those who say otherwise are just ignorant, fearful control freaks  who see sex in perfectly innocent things.
 
2013-02-16 06:47:14 PM

unamused: Real Women Drink Akvavit: MarkEC: The My Little Pony Killer: Slappajo: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

So you'd be ok with a restaurant not serving the negroes?

Because choosing to carry a gun everywhere you go is just like being born black.

In most states, a business can have a no-gun policy, but must have it posted on the entrance. If it doesn't, it doesn't have a no-gun policy and can't ask you to leave simply because you have a gun.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a very popular bit of signage in this state. You don't need a reason, either. Don't want to serve someone, just tell them to leave and they must leave.

But if you have already served them, you are stuck with them.  You can't sell them nachos then throw them out before they can eat them.


You can, but you can't charge them for the food.
 
2013-02-16 06:48:05 PM

super_grass: skinink: So 15 percent off a pizza if you can prove you can legally carry instruments of death? This is the most farked up promotion I've heard of. Wha about people who carry knives, don't they get a deal?

I know, this is why I want to see the owner dead so much.

It annoys me that these violent idiots are allowed to live.


And because people like the above poster have occasionally come into power through the course of human history, THIS is exactly why we have a 2nd Amendment.

Thanks for that little gem.
 
2013-02-16 06:48:50 PM

MarkEC: Real Women Drink Akvavit: MarkEC: The My Little Pony Killer: Slappajo: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

So you'd be ok with a restaurant not serving the negroes?

Because choosing to carry a gun everywhere you go is just like being born black.

In most states, a business can have a no-gun policy, but must have it posted on the entrance. If it doesn't, it doesn't have a no-gun policy and can't ask you to leave simply because you have a gun.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a very popular bit of signage in this state. You don't need a reason, either. Don't want to serve someone, just tell them to leave and they must leave.

And they get sued for having a hidden policy once a class action attorney sees enough of a pattern. Like I said, a no-gun policy requires a sign at the entrance. If you had that policy, why wouldn't you post a sign at the door instead of confronting people after they are in your business? That would be just asinine.


What part of "anyone" did you not understand? I've thrown people out for verbally abusing the waitstaff, inappropriate dress for our restaurant, swearing every other word, having poorly behaved children of any age (though we generally prohibited children under 12 during open hours anyway - something not too terribly uncommon in fine dining establishments), all manner of things have had people tossed. The only "pattern" an attorney would see is "the Chef de Cuisine at this place doesn't like people who ruin other peoples' dining experience and will throw them out".

As I said, you don't need a reason, either. You reserve the right to refuse service to ANYONE. If someone is acting all butthurt, just don't give a reason other than "you are disturbing the other guests", but usually a "excuse me, sir/ma'am, we're going to have to ask you to leave" will suffice. They already know what they're doing, so why give them an opening to start an argument?

I've never even been threatened with a lawsuit over having people tossed or tossing them out myself. Restaurants in Cali are considered private property and if you do not leave when asked, you can be cited or even arrested (depends on how bored the cops are). A lawsuit would go about as far for me asking anyone to leave a restaurant where I'm running the show for any reason as one would if I asked them to leave my home. Nowhere.
 
2013-02-16 06:49:53 PM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Abox: LordJiro: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Since the owner open carries, one would think if a robber shows up one of them would leave in a body bag, and not the owner.

Unless the guy is quick on the draw, a robber will have the advantage. And the owner open-carrying will make any potential robbers more likely to shoot first.

Why would they rob the one place that they know has a gun-carrying owner when there are plenty of other places to rob.

Because you get a gun out of it?  The guy even shows you where it is - useless, at his hip.

"Hey, give us all your cash and also that gun you are proudly displaying on your person.  Alright, thanks.  We'll probably sell this to someone who might use it to kill somebody."


Yeah, that's why so many cops get robbed of their guns.

You're not really that farking stupid are you?  Tell me it was a troll.
 
2013-02-16 06:51:47 PM

BarkingUnicorn: shda5582: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

You are what's wrong with this country, and CA in particular.

/lives in CA so has room to comment.

Gun owners should have the same rights as breastfeeding mothers.  Those who say otherwise are just ignorant, fearful control freaks  who see sex in perfectly innocent things.


Yep.  Basically, you go along with whatever reasonable social conventions are in use in the society.  Most people don't want to watch breastfeeding, cuz the whole sexuality/motherhood conflation is confusing - fine - breastfeed privately.  Most people don't want to see guns carried around because the implied threat of violence causes anxiety - fine - leave guns at home.

You wanna live as a member of a group - deal with the rules.  You wanna be a loner - please, shoot only yourself when you freak out.
 
2013-02-16 06:57:33 PM

jaytkay: Government Fromage: Most ammo is still around, albeit at higher prices. .223, 9mm, and 22lr are hard to find though.

So "most" ammo is still around, except for the kind that makes up the majority of ammo sales.


True those are probably the most common. Just mean that there was plenty of .380, .40, .45, 38, .357, .44, and all of the rifle and shotgun cartridges. Only thing I've really seen that's been *totally* out has been 22lr, and that seems to be coming coming back. A place I stopped at the other day had it piled to the ceiling, and Gander Mountain has started getting shipments again (although it seems to be selling out quick there)
 
2013-02-16 06:58:47 PM

Turbo Cojones: Abox: LordJiro: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Since the owner open carries, one would think if a robber shows up one of them would leave in a body bag, and not the owner.

Unless the guy is quick on the draw, a robber will have the advantage. And the owner open-carrying will make any potential robbers more likely to shoot first.

Why would they rob the one place that they know has a gun-carrying owner when there are plenty of other places to rob.

Because in addition to the cash, they will be getting more free guns!


That's why gun stores get robbed so often.
 
2013-02-16 07:03:21 PM

unamused: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Abox: LordJiro: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Since the owner open carries, one would think if a robber shows up one of them would leave in a body bag, and not the owner.

Unless the guy is quick on the draw, a robber will have the advantage. And the owner open-carrying will make any potential robbers more likely to shoot first.

Why would they rob the one place that they know has a gun-carrying owner when there are plenty of other places to rob.

Because you get a gun out of it?  The guy even shows you where it is - useless, at his hip.

"Hey, give us all your cash and also that gun you are proudly displaying on your person.  Alright, thanks.  We'll probably sell this to someone who might use it to kill somebody."

Yeah, that's why so many cops get robbed of their guns.

You're not really that farking stupid are you?  Tell me it was a troll.


Yes, the tubby guy slinging pizzas behind a counter and dealing with customers and running a business is a cop.  Right.  Let me know when cops have a hundred different things to do rather than keep an eye out for perpetrators.

No, what will happen is this guy gets held up, they take his gun, or he tries to pull and gets shot to death.

Try again.
 
2013-02-16 07:04:06 PM

unamused: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Abox: LordJiro: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Since the owner open carries, one would think if a robber shows up one of them would leave in a body bag, and not the owner.

Unless the guy is quick on the draw, a robber will have the advantage. And the owner open-carrying will make any potential robbers more likely to shoot first.

Why would they rob the one place that they know has a gun-carrying owner when there are plenty of other places to rob.

Because you get a gun out of it?  The guy even shows you where it is - useless, at his hip.

"Hey, give us all your cash and also that gun you are proudly displaying on your person.  Alright, thanks.  We'll probably sell this to someone who might use it to kill somebody."

Yeah, that's why so many cops get robbed of their guns.

You're not really that farking stupid are you?  Tell me it was a troll.


Please don't call people farking stupid when you reply to them.  It's very unpleasant, and shows that you are unsure enough of your position that you need to call names.

So let's try to have some class from here on out.
 
2013-02-16 07:04:07 PM

dfenstrate: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

You have that luxury (to be a complete douchebag) because concealed carry licenses are issued only to the well-connected in CA. Their lives are more important than the lives of the folks you like to screw with. Normal folks have to carry unloaded in the open, while your betters get to carry concealed and you never get a chance to be a prick about it.


Not true. California law allows Police Chiefs and County Sheriffs to issue a license to carry a concealed firearm if the following requirements are met:

1. The person applying is of good moral character (not a felon, no domestic violence, no restraining orders, etc)

2. That good cause exists for the issuance

3. The applicant is a resident of the county or city to which they are applying (or the applicant's place of employment is within the city or county)

4. The applicant has completed a course of training (16-24 hours)

That course of training has a test at the end, btw. I'm hardly what anyone would call "connected" and I have a CCW. I also got it in Sacramento county. It's usually easier to get one in Cali if you live in a rural community and are connected, but they ignore the "good cause" part. In the cities, all requirements must be met, but you absolutely don't need to be connected.
 
2013-02-16 07:05:30 PM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: What part of "anyone" did you not understand? I've thrown people out for verbally abusing the waitstaff, inappropriate dress for our restaurant, swearing every other word, having poorly behaved children of any age (though we generally prohibited children under 12 during open hours anyway - something not too terribly uncommon in fine dining establishments), all manner of things have had people tossed. The only "pattern" an attorney would see is "the Chef de Cuisine at this place doesn't like people who ruin other peoples' dining experience and will throw them out".

As I said, you don't need a reason, either. You reserve the right to refuse service to ANYONE. If someone is acting all butthurt, just don't give a reason other than "you are disturbing the other guests", but usually a "excuse me, sir/ma'am, we're going to have to ask you to leave" will suffice. They already know what they're doing, so why give them an opening to start an argument?

I've never even been threatened with a lawsuit over having people tossed or tossing them out myself. Restaurants in Cali are considered private property and if you do not leave when asked, you can be cited or even arrested (depends on how bored the cops are). A lawsuit would go about as far for me asking anyone to leave a restaurant where I'm running the show for any reason as one would if I asked them to leave my home. Nowhere.


I'm clueless when it comes to the law, but I would think that if the restaurant let them in while they were carrying they're implying that it's ok. Turning around later and saying sorry, you need to go seems like of...not right.

If I was asked to leave in the middle of my dinner I certainly would, Without paying. And I'd not return there. Of course I don't have to worry about that scenario since I don't carry a gun.
 
2013-02-16 07:08:04 PM

Callous: jaytkay: Callous: You are aware that the Kellerman Study has been debunked and even Arthur Kellerman himself doesn't stand by it, right?

[citation needed}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kellermann

http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kellerman-schaffer.html

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=717

Shall I continue?


1)
Your wikipedia link has no debunking but many instances of gun nuts saying "GUns RULE1!!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kellermann
"...but, according to pro-gun groups.. "
".. The NRA and other pro-gun groups argued.. "
".. Kellermann also was criticized by pro-gun groups.. "
".. Pro-gun groups also claimed that it was suspicious.. "
".. Pro-gun groups claimed.. "
2)
Your 2nd link essentially says, "Responsible gun owners pose no risk. Until they murder people. But then they're no longer responsible gun owners! GOTCHA!!"
 http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html
""What the article failed to address is that gun ownership by responsible people is not a risk factor "

3)
Your 3rd link essentially says, "Kellerman may be wrong but we can't tell you why"
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kellerman-schaffer.html
 "... Showing flaws in the methods does not prove that the paper is wrong...This does not prove that there was any selection or response bias in this study, it just shows that there was room for such biases to act..."

4)
Your 4th link is a bunch of nebulous claims without attribution. And John Lott is a disgraced fraud.
http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=717

5)
I see no indication that, "Arthur Kellerman himself doesn't stand by it "

/ LOL, conservatives, LOL. You really shouldn't try to argue about subjects that get you all emotional.
 
2013-02-16 07:08:06 PM
This guy just wants to surround himself with like-minded people.  He openly carries (please stop saying, "open carries," BTW).  He prefers drivers who openly carry.  He hopes to attract customers who openly carry.  He is simply seeking validation of his opinions.

I guarantee you he did not run any spreadsheet projections or conduct any focus group studies.  It's not a bloodless corporate decision, it's a personal preference.

And that doesn't mean he's going to lose money.  Only time will tell.
 
2013-02-16 07:09:24 PM

noitsnot: MarkEC: Real Women Drink Akvavit: MarkEC: The My Little Pony Killer: Slappajo: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

So you'd be ok with a restaurant not serving the negroes?

Because choosing to carry a gun everywhere you go is just like being born black.

In most states, a business can have a no-gun policy, but must have it posted on the entrance. If it doesn't, it doesn't have a no-gun policy and can't ask you to leave simply because you have a gun.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a very popular bit of signage in this state. You don't need a reason, either. Don't want to serve someone, just tell them to leave and they must leave.

And they get sued for having a hidden policy once a class action attorney sees enough of a pattern. Like I said, a no-gun policy requires a sign at the entrance. If you had that policy, why wouldn't you post a sign at the door instead of confronting people after they are in your business? That would be just asinine.

No, she's absolutely right. Pattern or no pattern, you don't have to allow people into your business that you don't want to.


So you can keep blacks out as long as you don't make it  a written policy? Are you really arguing that? "No your honor, I didn't kick those 100 gun owners out of my store because they're gun owners, I kicked them out because they all swore at my waitress. And I haven't had any one else swear at my waitress." You think that will fly? The "We reserve the right to deny service to anyone without reason" has been shot down so many times in court, I can't believe people still argue it. It was a clear attempt to not serve blacks and say it was for a different reason. Once a pattern is shown, you lose in court. Many states' gun laws state that if you have a no-gun policy, you MUST have it posted.
 
2013-02-16 07:09:39 PM
[gunsgunsguns.gif]
 
2013-02-16 07:13:27 PM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: No, what will happen is this guy gets held up, they take his gun, or he tries to pull and gets shot to death.


Like this 65 year-old lady, right?  Five punks come into her store with guns drawn, she blasts back and and hilarity ensues.

Now show me an example of an armed shopkeeper who got shot.
 
2013-02-16 07:15:11 PM
A robber would likely be an employee or someone they know, so this probably won't serve as a real theft deterrent.  It's interesting that there's so much enthusiasm to carry a gun to stop the dumb criminals when there's so little enthusiasm to learn accounting to stop the smart ones.
 
2013-02-16 07:15:55 PM
www.goingfaster.com
 
2013-02-16 07:16:00 PM

Callous: LordJiro: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Since the owner open carries, one would think if a robber shows up one of them would leave in a body bag, and not the owner.

Unless the guy is quick on the draw, a robber will have the advantage. And the owner open-carrying will make any potential robbers more likely to shoot first.

This exactly.  i know if i was looking for a place to rob I would pick the place where I know there is at least one gun and it's possible that every employee and customer could be armed.  You know, cause that's a far better option than robbing Dominos where they expressly forbid their employees from being armed and are told to immediately hand over all the cash when robbed.


Yeah!

A chance to kill or be killed for someone elses $50.00!

What a dream job!
 
2013-02-16 07:19:58 PM

MarkEC: noitsnot: MarkEC: Real Women Drink Akvavit: MarkEC: The My Little Pony Killer: Slappajo: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

So you'd be ok with a restaurant not serving the negroes?

Because choosing to carry a gun everywhere you go is just like being born black.

In most states, a business can have a no-gun policy, but must have it posted on the entrance. If it doesn't, it doesn't have a no-gun policy and can't ask you to leave simply because you have a gun.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a very popular bit of signage in this state. You don't need a reason, either. Don't want to serve someone, just tell them to leave and they must leave.

And they get sued for having a hidden policy once a class action attorney sees enough of a pattern. Like I said, a no-gun policy requires a sign at the entrance. If you had that policy, why wouldn't you post a sign at the door instead of confronting people after they are in your business? That would be just asinine.

No, she's absolutely right. Pattern or no pattern, you don't have to allow people into your business that you don't want to.

So you can keep blacks out as long as you don't make it  a written policy? Are you really arguing that? "No your honor, I didn't kick those 100 gun owners out of my store because they're gun owners, I kicked them out because they all swore at my waitress. And I haven't had any one else swear at my waitress." You think that will fly? The "We reserve the right to deny service to anyone without reason" has been shot down so many times in court, I can't believe people ...


Gun carriers aren't a "protected class" like race, gender and handicapped.  And even so, I think you probably could turn away all of a given race legally.  Can you cite any examples to the contrary?  I can cite the fact that Augusta Country Club did not allow blacks or women until 1990.
 
2013-02-16 07:20:48 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Gun owners should have the same rights as breastfeeding mothers. Those who say otherwise are just ignorant, fearful

...

I walk around Chicago without a weapon. You're calling me fearful?

The fearful people think they need a gun to get a Slurpee at a suburban 7-11.

The ignorant ones buy an AR-15 and a thousand rounds of .223 Cuz Obama gonna take mah GUNZ!!
 
2013-02-16 07:22:02 PM
Also, this thing you keep saying:

Many states' gun laws state that if you have a no-gun policy, you MUST have it posted.

I think you made that up.  Prove me wrong.
 
2013-02-16 07:22:51 PM

super_grass: PapaChester: I have told managers on three separate occasions that my party is leaving unless the party with the gun on their hip is removed from the premises.

On all three occasions the police have had to show up to remind the threats that businesses reserve the right to serve who they please and people equipped with firearms were not welcome.

I love CA. You keep your death dealing device away from my sushi, thank you very much.

/big tipper

This.  fark gun owners.

I make sure to casually key a few trucks and SUBs with NRA or GOP bumper stickers whenever I'm at the local mall or movie theater parking lot.

A little psychological conditioning goes a long way with these hicks ;)


You sound like a wonderful person. You sure proved who was the huge asshole there.
 
2013-02-16 07:30:43 PM

noitsnot: Gun carriers aren't a "protected class" like race, gender and handicapped. And even so, I think you probably could turn away all of a given race legally. Can you cite any examples to the contrary? I can cite the fact that Augusta Country Club did not allow blacks or women until 1990.


Title II of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 would like a word with you.....
 
2013-02-16 07:32:56 PM

udhq: noitsnot: Gun carriers aren't a "protected class" like race, gender and handicapped. And even so, I think you probably could turn away all of a given race legally. Can you cite any examples to the contrary? I can cite the fact that Augusta Country Club did not allow blacks or women until 1990.

Title II of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 would like a word with you.....


I don't understand.  Where are gun carriers there?
 
2013-02-16 07:34:15 PM

Dracolich: A robber would likely be an employee or someone they know, so this probably won't serve as a real theft deterrent.  It's interesting that there's so much enthusiasm to carry a gun to stop the dumb criminals when there's so little enthusiasm to learn accounting to stop the smart ones.


I think more businesses have accountants than have guns.
 
2013-02-16 07:34:30 PM

noitsnot: udhq: noitsnot: Gun carriers aren't a "protected class" like race, gender and handicapped. And even so, I think you probably could turn away all of a given race legally. Can you cite any examples to the contrary? I can cite the fact that Augusta Country Club did not allow blacks or women until 1990.

Title II of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 would like a word with you.....

I don't understand.  Where are gun carriers there?


I was referring to where you said "I think you probably could turn away all of a given race legally."

You most certainly cannot do so.
 
2013-02-16 07:34:34 PM

noitsnot: udhq: noitsnot: Gun carriers aren't a "protected class" like race, gender and handicapped. And even so, I think you probably could turn away all of a given race legally. Can you cite any examples to the contrary? I can cite the fact that Augusta Country Club did not allow blacks or women until 1990.

Title II of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 would like a word with you.....

I don't understand.  Where are gun carriers there?


Oh, unless you were pointing out that even protected classes can be barred from private establishments, which just supports my point more.
 
2013-02-16 07:35:47 PM

noitsnot: noitsnot: udhq: noitsnot: Gun carriers aren't a "protected class" like race, gender and handicapped. And even so, I think you probably could turn away all of a given race legally. Can you cite any examples to the contrary? I can cite the fact that Augusta Country Club did not allow blacks or women until 1990.

Title II of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 would like a word with you.....

I don't understand.  Where are gun carriers there?

Oh, unless you were pointing out that even protected classes can be barred from private establishments, which just supports my point more.


"Private clubs" - i.e. Augusta
 
2013-02-16 07:39:01 PM

noitsnot: noitsnot: noitsnot: udhq: noitsnot: Gun carriers aren't a "protected class" like race, gender and handicapped. And even so, I think you probably could turn away all of a given race legally. Can you cite any examples to the contrary? I can cite the fact that Augusta Country Club did not allow blacks or women until 1990.

Title II of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 would like a word with you.....

I don't understand.  Where are gun carriers there?

Oh, unless you were pointing out that even protected classes can be barred from private establishments, which just supports my point more.

"Private clubs" - i.e. Augusta


Right.  August is a private club.  It is not a business, it does not serve the public.  It's essentially no different than my book club that meets over scotch and hooka in my porch.
 
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