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(Digital Spy)   National Organization for Marriage, or NOM, says that protests against Orson Scott Card are un-American. So taking a stand against a homophobe who thinks homosexuals should be imprisoned is un-American. Got it   (digitalspy.com) divider line 150
    More: Followup, Orson Scott Card, NOM, Un-American, Superman  
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3178 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Feb 2013 at 4:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-16 04:49:11 PM
"NOM" refers to the sound they wish they were making with a cock in their mouths.
 
2013-02-16 05:03:18 PM
Oh, I'm sorry, Orson, I thought people had a right to express disagreement, and decide for themselves what they want to spend their money on.

F*ck off Card, you hack.
 
2013-02-16 05:06:04 PM
Moooorrrmmaaaannnns iiiiinnnnnn ssspppppaaaaacccceeeeee.

shiatty shiatty human being, sucking kids into his cult by sneaky Mormon brainwashing in his shiatty scifi writing.
 
2013-02-16 05:09:59 PM
I've never read Ender's Game, buy my SIL gave me Pathfinder to read.  I thought it was pretty predictable, but interesting.  I didn't get any overt attempts politicizing his writing.

Though now that I've found all this nonsense out about him, I'm not so inclined to read the sequel.
 
2013-02-16 05:12:10 PM
d.gr-assets.com
He looks like a member of the
National
Association for
Marriage
Between
Ladies
And men
 
2013-02-16 05:12:27 PM
Meh, who cares?

I never listen to what celebrities have to say about politics.
 
2013-02-16 05:12:56 PM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-02-16 05:14:15 PM

Even With A Chainsaw: I've never read Ender's Game, buy my SIL gave me Pathfinder to read.  I thought it was pretty predictable, but interesting.  I didn't get any overt attempts politicizing his writing.

Though now that I've found all this nonsense out about him, I'm not so inclined to read the sequel.

the Enders Game movie comes out in December.
 
2013-02-16 05:14:47 PM
Because using your speech rights, which is about as American as you can get, is unamerican if you use them to criticize somebody involved with NOM. Okay.
 
2013-02-16 05:16:04 PM
His Homecoming series was cool. Except for the last book. It made absolutely no sense.
None.
Finishing an otherwise good series with a story as incomprehensible as "Earthborn" is reason enough for him to stop writing.
 
2013-02-16 05:16:20 PM
Well, his writing sucks, so I expected he would be in favor of the gays....
 
2013-02-16 05:18:23 PM
I thought he was a flaming liberal. Ok, he's a homophobic flaming liberal.
 
2013-02-16 05:20:26 PM
You'd think he'd be thrilled there's gay men out there. Less guys competing for the same number of 12 year old child brides he's after.
 
2013-02-16 05:20:28 PM
Wow, this guy is destroying his reputation right as his most well known book is about to go mainstream (with the film and all). What a schmuck.
 
2013-02-16 05:20:44 PM
OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.
 
2013-02-16 05:22:25 PM

Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.


Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.
 
2013-02-16 05:23:06 PM
Card sits on the board of NOM and has said that gay marriage would herald "the end of democracy in America".

you know...i'm just gonna come out and say it.  I never liked 'Ender's game'.  I felt the ending was contrived.  but...he's a writer who's actually making money off his writing while i'm just a guy with several written stories and tabletop RPG campaigns and never gotten his files organized enough to actually submit anything.  So i'm not sure my opinion amounts to much.

oh, and writers should keep their politics in their stories and not make a big deal about 'em in public.  you still gotta sell books.  STFU and be a writer, avoid politics and write stories.
 
2013-02-16 05:24:26 PM

Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.


I don't see gays trying to turn everyone into raging homosexuals.  the evangelical christians tho...they sure do wanna impose their beliefs on the rest of this country.
 
2013-02-16 05:27:00 PM
I'd protest him for his shiatastic books and his obviously gay chipmunk face.
 
2013-02-16 05:29:38 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Wow, this guy is destroying his reputation right as his most well known book is about to go mainstream (with the film and all). What a schmuck.


Well, it's more that people are discovering what anybody who had been paying attention had known for a while. In that way it's pretty similar to the Chick-Fil-A fiasco, activists had been pushing the issue for a while and just like with Dan Cathy, he handed activists a gift-wrapped present. These old homophobes don't realize that the world doesn't agree with them anymore.
 
2013-02-16 05:30:01 PM
How did "standing up for traditional marriage" morph into "no gay marriage?" In what way does same-sex marriage prevent people from having "traditional" (WTH that is) marriages?

I think I missed a turn somewhere.
 
2013-02-16 05:31:39 PM

Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.


Okay, I will.

There are a few annoying militant atheists who think that religion should be banned outright, and they usually get ignored.

helphelpi'mbeingoppressed.jpg
 
2013-02-16 05:33:21 PM

Uncle Tractor: How did "standing up for traditional marriage" morph into "no gay marriage?" In what way does same-sex marriage prevent people from having "traditional" (WTH that is) marriages?

I think I missed a turn somewhere.


Generally, people who "stand up for traditional marriage" believe that only so-called traditional marriage between a man and a woman is the only combination that should ever be allowed ever, because if two men or two women marry, their "traditional" marriages will be null and void and they will have to go out and gay marry the first person they find.

/or, because Jesus. whatever.
 
2013-02-16 05:33:22 PM

Uncle Tractor: How did "standing up for traditional marriage" morph into "no gay marriage?" In what way does same-sex marriage prevent people from having "traditional" (WTH that is) marriages?

I think I missed a turn somewhere.


Because Fartboma will call predator drones down on them, take away their guns and make them gay marry an illegal immigrant who will then apply for welfare!!!!1!!!

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!1!!!

/kidding
 
2013-02-16 05:34:04 PM
Pretty odd stance from a guy who traces muscular men in tiny tights for a living.
 
2013-02-16 05:34:17 PM

1000 Ways to Dye: His Homecoming series was cool. Except for the last book. It made absolutely no sense.
None.
Finishing an otherwise good series with a story as incomprehensible as "Earthborn" is reason enough for him to stop writing.


That's because that series was literally the Book of Mormon played out in space. From character names to plot resolutions.
 
2013-02-16 05:34:19 PM

HempHead: he Enders Game movie comes out in December.


If I do end up watching it I'll take extra special care to make sure I do so in a way that does not profit Card.

Fark that jackhole.
 
2013-02-16 05:35:33 PM

quatchi: HempHead: he Enders Game movie comes out in December.

If I do end up watching it I'll take extra special care to make sure I do so in a way that does not profit Card.

Fark that jackhole.


I don't really care if OSC makes money off his own work.  sure, his personal politics are pretty bad...but he's got a right to his beliefs.
 
2013-02-16 05:35:40 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.


lulz
 
2013-02-16 05:39:50 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.


Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.
 
2013-02-16 05:42:19 PM
 
2013-02-16 05:42:28 PM
Card has a lot of interesting stuff.   The Worthing Saga is one of my favorite pieces of Sci-Fi, and a lot of his other early stuff is thought-provoking.  But recently he's had a nasty habit of randomly inserting politicized nonsense in his books for no particular reason (e.g. random non-sequiter paragraphs in  The Shadow of the Hegemonabout what a horrible president Kennedy was, or the "evil Russia and China" storylines that permeate the books in the Ender reboot).
 
2013-02-16 05:43:54 PM

chewielouie: Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.



The animal kingdom apparently learned it from us, then.
 
2013-02-16 05:45:19 PM

Even With A Chainsaw: I've never read Ender's Game, buy my SIL gave me Pathfinder to read.  I thought it was pretty predictable, but interesting.  I didn't get any overt attempts politicizing his writing.

Though now that I've found all this nonsense out about him, I'm not so inclined to read the sequel.


Order is very important in reading literature.  You should have started by reading Ender's Game and then quit.
 
2013-02-16 05:45:23 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: chewielouie: Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.


The animal kingdom apparently learned it from us, then.


DAMN THAT MARLON PERKINS!
 
2013-02-16 05:46:01 PM

Weaver95: quatchi: HempHead: he Enders Game movie comes out in December.

If I do end up watching it I'll take extra special care to make sure I do so in a way that does not profit Card.

Fark that jackhole.

I don't really care if OSC makes money off his own work.  sure, his personal politics are pretty bad...but he's got a right to his beliefs.


The money he makes off of his works goes into NOM's coffers though.
 
2013-02-16 05:49:57 PM

Weaver95: I don't really care if OSC makes money off his own work.  sure, his personal politics are pretty bad...but he's got a right to his beliefs.


I don't really care if he makes other people's money off of his own work just not mine.

He has a right to his beliefs and I have a right to mine which include "you vote with your pocketbook more often and more effectively than you do your actual vote". If I enjoy an artist's work or a tv show or a movie I'll support them by buying a ticket and putting my ass in a seat or buying the dvd or box set if it's a series. If I don't support them then my squeamishness over pirated intellectual content is suddenly quashed.

In all likelihood I'll just not watch it.
 
2013-02-16 05:53:39 PM

Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.


You're wrong.  (Happy?)

Or are people passing laws to keep others from practicing religions they don't approve of?
 
2013-02-16 05:58:42 PM
He wants gays imprisoned?  Subby is going to be crushed when he finds out about Santa and the Easter Bunny.
 
2013-02-16 05:59:07 PM

Uncle Tractor: How did "standing up for traditional marriage" morph into "no gay marriage?" In what way does same-sex marriage prevent people from having "traditional" (WTH that is) marriages?

I think I missed a turn somewhere.


The same way "standing up for the white race" turned into "no black people."
 
2013-02-16 06:00:11 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

You're wrong.  (Happy?)

Or are people passing laws to keep others from practicing religions they don't approve of?


Prop 8.

Yes, people are passing laws to try to make their religion legally superior.
 
2013-02-16 06:00:17 PM
Card is a pretty shiatty writer. Can we protest him based on that or is that also un-American?
 
2013-02-16 06:02:26 PM
chewielouie

Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.

God made man perfectly, in His Own Image.

As part of his intelligent design, he made men 100% compatible sexually.  We always have been, and we always will be.  There is nothing in the bible where either God or His Own Son say one word against gays.  We are perfect in the eyes of God.  That's why he loves us.

God doesn't make mistakes.
 
2013-02-16 06:04:21 PM

firefly212: Lionel Mandrake: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

You're wrong.  (Happy?)

Or are people passing laws to keep others from practicing religions they don't approve of?

Prop 8.

Yes, people are passing laws to try to make their religion legally superior.


Well, that's new...I think my point was proved at the same time I was proved wrong...or something...now I'm confused...
 
2013-02-16 06:07:47 PM

Lionel Mandrake: firefly212: Lionel Mandrake: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

You're wrong.  (Happy?)

Or are people passing laws to keep others from practicing religions they don't approve of?

Prop 8.

Yes, people are passing laws to try to make their religion legally superior.

Well, that's new...I think my point was proved at the same time I was proved wrong...or something...now I'm confused...


You asked if people were passing laws to keep others from practicing religions they don't approve of... across the country, yes, people are passing laws to restrict the legal recognition of marriage to only those religions they think are the right ones. <1% of MCC marriages in a State like Texas or California would be recognized, while 100% of Catholic marriages earn you special rights... so very much yes, people love passing some laws to try to both promote their religion and demote those they disagree with.
 
2013-02-16 06:08:03 PM
I'm gay and I've bought, read, and enjoyed every Ender-series book. I knew he was conservative and Mormon but didn't know he was an active bigot. I also don't particularly care. I can't retroactively not enjoy his writing, and his side's going to lose whether I buy his books or not. He's wrong, and in a couple of generations virtually everyone will agree he's wrong.
 
2013-02-16 06:10:55 PM

neongoats: Moooorrrmmaaaannnns iiiiinnnnnn ssspppppaaaaacccceeeeee.

shiatty shiatty human being, sucking kids into his cult by sneaky Mormon brainwashing in his shiatty scifi writing.


He created Battlestar Galactica?
 
2013-02-16 06:17:10 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

You're wrong.  (Happy?)

Or are people passing laws to keep others from practicing religions they don't approve of?


Christians and Republicans seem hell bent on passing laws banning Islam.
 
2013-02-16 06:21:14 PM

studebaker hoch: chewielouie

Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.

God made man perfectly, in His Own Image.

As part of his intelligent design, he made men 100% compatible sexually.  We always have been, and we always will be.  There is nothing in the bible where either God or His Own Son say one word against gays.  We are perfect in the eyes of God.  That's why he loves us.

God doesn't make mistakes.


The creation of Adam is the first time the Bible does not say "and it was good" after the event.
 
2013-02-16 06:24:15 PM

neongoats: 1000 Ways to Dye: His Homecoming series was cool. Except for the last book. It made absolutely no sense.
None.
Finishing an otherwise good series with a story as incomprehensible as "Earthborn" is reason enough for him to stop writing.

That's because that series was literally the Book of Mormon played out in space. From character names to plot resolutions.


Having never read the Book of Mormon, I only had a passing knowledge of how much the series correlates with it.
Having known a few Mormans, this actually makes perfect sense.
 
2013-02-16 06:25:39 PM
I thought Ender's Game was a gay porn novel.  So dissapointed.
 
2013-02-16 06:31:53 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.


I'm a Catholic and I think homosexuality is a-okay.  Outside of higher-up leadership, I've often heard the message of "God is good.  Therefore, if people seek to do good, they seek God, therefore they are good."  It's part of why Catholicism says that Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Zoroastrian... whatever - so long as you are a good person you're going to heaven.
I understand that many people who claim to be Christian are out there hating on people, but don't be just as bad as them and say that every Christian is evil.  You just make it harder for us reasonable folk in the mix to get any change done, because you enable their zeal and put them on the defensive.

I don't wanna turn this into a religious debate because this should be about Orson Scott Card being a douchebag.  Please don't try to make it a religious thing (though I know he is warping religion to fit his bigotry) when we have plenty of things in common in hating this guy's douchebaggery.  Let's meet in the middle and hold hands while we give him the finger.
 
2013-02-16 06:40:16 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: chewielouie: Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.


The animal kingdom apparently learned it from us, then.


Animals often eat each other, thier own young, and thier own shiat. So what's your point?

I can stick a screwdriver in an electric socket, but that's not what either is used for. So that action doesn't equal plugging in a lamp.
 
2013-02-16 06:41:16 PM
I know I'll get yelled at on Fark for saying this, but the only reason Orson Scott Card is known at all is because he wrote a masturbatory fantasy for a bunch of nerds who played way too many video games and wanted vindication for all the years of getting their heads stuffed in toilets. Those people bought his books in hardcover.

His writing is crap.
 
2013-02-16 06:43:57 PM

chewielouie: FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.

Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.


Were they made explicitly against them?  I was unaware that there were outward facing thorns in there that allow poop to go by just fine, but anything entering got all mangled and shredded.  What about blowjobs?  I guess you're saying either blowjobs for anybody are out, or that you just love the idea of a man licking and sucking on another man's dick until he finishes.  That's a bold position to take.

What about if a man and man wanted to get married and promised not to put penises in butts?  Maybe just mutual masturbation, or even just plain old fashioned masturbation, while having a rich emotional connection?
 
2013-02-16 06:45:58 PM

Xyphoid: chewielouie: FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.

Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.

Were they made explicitly against them?  I was unaware that there were outward facing thorns in there that allow poop to go by just fine, but anything entering got all mangled and shredded.  What about blowjobs?  I guess you're saying either blowjobs for anybody are out, or that you just love the idea of a man licking and sucking on another man's dick until he finishes.  That's a bold position to take.

What about if a man and man wanted to get married and promised not to put penises in butts?  Maybe just mutual masturbation, or even just plain old fashioned masturbation, while having a rich emotional connection?


Nope.  The cock sucking is a must.
 
2013-02-16 06:50:37 PM
an entire thread and not one nom nom nom pic?
 
2013-02-16 06:57:13 PM

Xyphoid: I'm a Catholic and I think homosexuality is a-okay.


Then you're a bad Catholic.  The official Catholic position is that engaging in homosexual behaviour is a sin.  So unless you meant that being a homosexual is ok, as long as you never act on your desires - effectively dodging the issue - then you're disagreeing with the church.  Which is fine, but acting as if the church isn't teaching that homosexual behaviour is a sin isn't helping anything.
 
2013-02-16 07:02:40 PM

SaltyDonnie: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: chewielouie: Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.


The animal kingdom apparently learned it from us, then.

Animals often eat each other, thier own young, and thier own shiat. So what's your point?

I can stick a screwdriver in an electric socket, but that's not what either is used for. So that action doesn't equal plugging in a lamp.


Form a topographical standpoint it does.
 
2013-02-16 07:05:59 PM
I love Sci Fi, and I still consider Card to be one of my favorite authors. I devoured Ender's Game, and for a while I would read anything of his I could get my hands on. He wrote some really trippy stuff.

It was very surprising to me when I learned about his political views and personal convictions. I was surprised, because I had always thought of him as being so smart in his writing -- it was hard for me to accept smart people espousing some of his views.

I enjoy a lot of the works that Card, Tom Cruise and Picasso have produced, even if I don't share their views on gayness, scientology and fascism respectively. I understand that that Michaelangelo fella was kind of racist, too. At some point you have to separate the artist from the art and judge them separately as best you can.
 
2013-02-16 07:07:28 PM

Bhruic: Xyphoid: I'm a Catholic and I think homosexuality is a-okay.

Then you're a bad Catholic.  The official Catholic position is that engaging in homosexual behaviour is a sin.  So unless you meant that being a homosexual is ok, as long as you never act on your desires - effectively dodging the issue - then you're disagreeing with the church.  Which is fine, but acting as if the church isn't teaching that homosexual behaviour is a sin isn't helping anything.


not all Catholics view the Vatican as their source of religious views and policy.

the Polish Catholic church in the US allows priests to marry, for example.
 
2013-02-16 07:10:19 PM

Bhruic: Xyphoid: I'm a Catholic and I think homosexuality is a-okay.

Then you're a bad Catholic.  The official Catholic position is that engaging in homosexual behaviour is a sin.  So unless you meant that being a homosexual is ok, as long as you never act on your desires - effectively dodging the issue - then you're disagreeing with the church.  Which is fine, but acting as if the church isn't teaching that homosexual behaviour is a sin isn't helping anything.


The Church is teaching a lot of things that I don't believe are right, however the very core of what is being taught (the messages that Jesus actually taught, that are basically the same core messages from Judaism and the prophet Muhammad (PBUH)) leads a lot of people who aren't looking for a confirmation to their bigotry to see that the Church, and every Christian, should be okay with homosexuality.  The Church has been wrong about a lot in the past, this is just part of it, and is a sad artifact of the times.  I'm sure many people can find all the things that are explicitly talked about (Charity, loving fellow man, etc) that aren't emphasized by the Church or by just about any other branch of Christianity (see: megachurches, prosperity-gospel bullshiat), but that doesn't mean that there aren't good people out there who are Christian.

There are people trying to fix things from the inside, and while I don't expect people to just tolerate bigotry, you don't have to react in such a way that it drives more people to bigotry or makes it harder to fix the bigots.
 
2013-02-16 07:10:53 PM

maxheck: I know I'll get yelled at on Fark for saying this, but the only reason Orson Scott Card is known at all is because he wrote a masturbatory fantasy for a bunch of nerds who played way too many video games and wanted vindication for all the years of getting their heads stuffed in toilets. Those people bought his books in hardcover.

His writing is crap.


Youre not wrong, but shut up.
 
2013-02-16 07:12:05 PM

Even With A Chainsaw: I've never read Ender's Game, buy my SIL gave me Pathfinder to read.  I thought it was pretty predictable, but interesting.  I didn't get any overt attempts politicizing his writing.

Though now that I've found all this nonsense out about him, I'm not so inclined to read the sequel.


His early stuff (before he started foaming at the mouth over gay marriage) like Ender's Game was blatantly political, but his current stuff is "hit-you-over-the-head-with-the-author's-philosophy" bad.

"Empire" (and it's sequel, "Hidden Empire") was crap that a Fox News watcher would jack off to, and his re-imagining of Hamlet had half of the cast "turned gay" because Hamlet's father molested them as children. I'm amazed that Shakespeare didn't crawl out of his grave and b*tch-slap Card.
 
2013-02-16 07:13:27 PM
This is like the fifth Orson Scott Card thread on FARK in the past month. Is he blowing Drew or something?
 
2013-02-16 07:14:41 PM
T-Bone42:

I enjoy a lot of the works that Card, Tom Cruise and Picasso have produced, even if I don't share their views on gayness, scientology and fascism respectively. I understand that that Michaelangelo fella was kind of racist, too. At some point you have to separate the artist from the art and judge them separately as best you can.

About three minutes of my allotted 15 was publicly telling Frank Zappa he was full of shiat when he went on about how HIV/AIDS was a CIA plot.

I still have almost all of his work on vinyl, and saw him several times in concert. But sometimes you just need to shut up and play your guitar.
 
2013-02-16 07:16:15 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.


Rape is natural in the animal kingdom too, what's your point?
 
2013-02-16 07:19:02 PM
A comic showing what OSC's Superman would be like: (I wanted to post this, but the damn image is too large): Link
 
2013-02-16 07:19:14 PM
Propain_az

Nope. The cock sucking is a must.

Exactly.

Blowjobs don't make a whole lot of intuitive or reproductive "sense", but they're still fun.

The haters of course never go "against God" and have never had their dick in anything but a vagina or their own hand.

/and they don't like it when you remind them that when they jerk off, they're touching a man.
 
2013-02-16 07:22:41 PM

redTiburon: I thought he was a flaming liberal. Ok, he's a homophobic flaming liberal.


There is such a thing as a homophobic Bush apologist flaming liberal?
 
2013-02-16 07:23:15 PM

T-Bone42: I love Sci Fi, and I still consider Card to be one of my favorite authors. I devoured Ender's Game, and for a while I would read anything of his I could get my hands on. He wrote some really trippy stuff.

It was very surprising to me when I learned about his political views and personal convictions. I was surprised, because I had always thought of him as being so smart in his writing -- it was hard for me to accept smart people espousing some of his views.

I enjoy a lot of the works that Card, Tom Cruise and Picasso have produced, even if I don't share their views on gayness, scientology and fascism respectively. I understand that that Michaelangelo fella was kind of racist, too. At some point you have to separate the artist from the art and judge them separately as best you can.


Really?  And how are you enjoying his work as a board member of the National Organization for Marriage?  Because I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that once you take a job actively involving yourself in politics, you're a politician and whatever you claim your day job is can only be described as a hobby.

Person A holds an opinion I disagree with:  Fine by me.
Person B donates their own money to a cause I disagree with:  Well, at least they're backing up their opinion.  Their own money, their own choice.
Person C states their opinion publicly when asked, or when the subject comes up:  Eh...whatever.  Shut the hell up and play/write/act/whatever it is you do.
Person D is actively involved in politically campaigning to restrict the rights of other people:  ...Nope, no more money from me.  Bu-bye.
 
2013-02-16 07:29:40 PM

SaltyDonnie: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: chewielouie: Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.


The animal kingdom apparently learned it from us, then.

Animals often eat each other, thier own young, and thier own shiat. So what's your point?

I can stick a screwdriver in an electric socket, but that's not what either is used for. So that action doesn't equal plugging in a lamp.


"It's not natural!" "Here's evidence that it is, in fact, natural" "WELL ANIMALS DO HORRIBLE THINGS DOES THAT MAKE THEM OK HOMOSEXUALITY IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS RAPE AND CANNIBALISM!11"

Keep moving those goalposts, homophobes. The world will leave you in the dust with the rest of the bigots.
 
2013-02-16 07:37:46 PM

chewielouie: Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.


Exactly.  Why do you think the prostate is exactly where it is?  Either it evolved there, or God put it there.
 
2013-02-16 07:43:05 PM

Weaver95: oh, and writers should keep their politics in their stories and not make a big deal about 'em in public.  you still gotta sell books.  STFU and be a writer, avoid politics and write stories.


I'm still sad that Dan Simmons pulled a Dennis Miller after 9/11. "Flashback" was like reading Tea Party doomsday propaganda.


ZeroCorpse: This is like the fifth Orson Scott Card thread on FARK in the past month. Is he blowing Drew or something?


Nah, that would be gay.
 
2013-02-16 07:45:57 PM
Dwight_Yeast:

chewielouie: Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.

Exactly. Why do you think the prostate is exactly where it is? Either it evolved there, or God put it there.


From what I understand, humans actually want to have sex outside of the female estrus. Every other animal has a means to avoid sex out of season, but not humans.

What exactly is natural?
 
2013-02-16 07:45:58 PM

jaytkay: [d.gr-assets.com image 171x239]
He looks like a member of the
National
Association for
Marriage
Between
Ladies
And men


Holy crap. I know a guy that looks exactly like him!!!

And he's a flaming douchebag too!!!
 
2013-02-16 07:52:04 PM
Speaking of Orson Scott Card, this is the worst book ever written:

<IMG SRC="ecx.images-amazon.com ">
 
2013-02-16 07:52:53 PM
stupid WYSIWYG editor.
 
2013-02-16 07:57:16 PM

fusillade762: I'm still sad that Dan Simmons pulled a Dennis Miller after 9/11. "Flashback" was like reading Tea Party doomsday propaganda.


Stephen Hunter did the same thing. He went from reasonably conservative action/gun writer with a classic strong-silent-independent type protagonist in most of his books, to full derp ranting for the most recent one.

It was like someone told the action authors of the country that they only appeal to the gun-nut teahaddist types, and that they should dumb it down, and turn up the derp to 11.
 
2013-02-16 08:25:58 PM
I attempted to read "Shadows in Flight" this week.

I've read things written by middle schoolers that were better.
 
2013-02-16 08:45:37 PM
I'm bisexual and OSC won't get another farking dollar from me.

That being said, Ender's Game is an extremely good book, and one I think everyone should actually read (yes, it's that good.) Your local library probably has a copy.

Shame too. I won't steal simply to circumvent this asshat, but I'd love to have an ebook copy. But again, won't give that farker another dime.

There's plenty of people I don't personally agree with that I do financially support (via buying books). I own books that I don't agree with (Hello KJV of the bible on my kindle). But I'll be damned if I give a farking penny of my hard earned money to some asshat who clearly hates people like me, and will do whatever he can to prevent equal rights. fark that noise. What am I, stupid?

And fark you too NOM, take the cock out of your mouth.
 
2013-02-16 08:48:07 PM

Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.


Don't wave it in my face, and I won't care what you do...

Sounds about right to me.
 
2013-02-16 08:49:54 PM

T-Bone42: I love Sci Fi, and I still consider Card to be one of my favorite authors. I devoured Ender's Game, and for a while I would read anything of his I could get my hands on. He wrote some really trippy stuff.

It was very surprising to me when I learned about his political views and personal convictions. I was surprised, because I had always thought of him as being so smart in his writing -- it was hard for me to accept smart people espousing some of his views.

I enjoy a lot of the works that Card, Tom Cruise and Picasso have produced, even if I don't share their views on gayness, scientology and fascism respectively. I understand that that Michaelangelo fella was kind of racist, too. At some point you have to separate the artist from the art and judge them separately as best you can.



Once they are dead sure.  Until then they won't get any of my money.
 
2013-02-16 09:03:53 PM

Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.


lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-02-16 09:07:09 PM
You guys that liked Enders Game should read Stephen Baxter's Exultant. Great stuff from a non-douche.

/liked EG
//rest of series was a mess
///decided to read guys that are always good, like Baxter, Egan, and Niven.
 
2013-02-16 09:11:24 PM

fusillade762: Weaver95: oh, and writers should keep their politics in their stories and not make a big deal about 'em in public.  you still gotta sell books.  STFU and be a writer, avoid politics and write stories.

I'm still sad that Dan Simmons pulled a Dennis Miller after 9/11. "Flashback" was like reading Tea Party doomsday propaganda.


Is that what the fark happened to Simmons?  I downloaded samples from Amazon for his last couple of books and thought they were complete shiat.

On the other hand, I really think he spooged out his only good work in the first two books of his John Keats uber-fanfic, the Hyperion Cantos.  I liked the other half, in the sort of way I liked 'God Emperor of Dune,' which is not entirely a compliment.
 
2013-02-16 09:22:31 PM

AdrienVeidt: You guys that liked Enders Game should read Stephen Baxter's Exultant. Great stuff from a non-douche.

/liked EG
//rest of series was a mess
///decided to read guys that are always good, like Baxter, Egan, and Niven.


Thanks! Will do!

Also highly recommend John Scalzi (https://twitter.com/scalzi ) who is very non douchey and his books are great. I'd start with 'Old Man's War'. It's Heinleinesque, but in a good way (but no kink).
 
2013-02-16 09:23:17 PM

maxheck: I know I'll get yelled at on Fark for saying this, but the only reason Orson Scott Card is known at all is because he wrote a masturbatory fantasy for a bunch of nerds who played way too many video games and wanted vindication for all the years of getting their heads stuffed in toilets. Those people bought his books in hardcover.

His writing is crap.


Maybe I was too old when I read Ender's Game, but pretty much this.

It read like something Gene Roddenberry wrote for the character of Wesley. I couldn't not picture Wil as Ender.
 
2013-02-16 09:24:59 PM
Card is so far in the closet that he visits Narnia.
 
2013-02-16 09:31:14 PM
Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-02-16 09:34:06 PM

obamadidcoke: Card is so far in the closet that he visits Narnia.


Holy crap - I came in here for the express purpose of saying something about a lamppost and a faun, having read Card's work.  Are you me, in a different time stream or something?
 
2013-02-16 09:43:45 PM
A lot of Sci-Fi authors have some pretty extreme views. Dan Simmons wrote a SciFi novel (Flashback) which was a long polemic against Democrats and Greens. Neal Ascher abuses anyone who agrees with AGW as a deluded sheep. Heinlein was a proponent of Ayn Rand.

If you want to know why so many Sci Fi authors skew conservative, look at the recent reddit thread on "which SciFi books should you start with" and people overwhelmingly choose Heinlein's more conservative libertarian stuff as a starting point. The people that are writing SciFi now didn't grow up on stuff like Joe Haldeman. Even Asimov skewed conservative (ask Newt Gingrich what his favorite novel is - he's claimed that much of his political philosophy was influenced by reading Asimov's Foundation trilogy). Sci Fi authors skew conservative because SciFi itself (socially) skews conservative.

If you look at the majority of Sci Fi - it's heroic heterosexual men saving stuff (The galaxy, the planet). When Richard K Morgan (Takashi Kovachs books) wrote a gay character who banged dudes the way that his male leads in earlier novels banged women, readers freaked the fark out. Posit Kirk banging all the green chicks he can lay his hands on, but how many bestselling scifi novels have a gay lead?

Social Media simply allows us to see more of an authors views than we normally would have.

If you like an author - be really careful about finding out more about their views. Chances are you'll find them very disappointing.
 
2013-02-16 09:46:01 PM
mjjt:
Dec 1978 A Thousand Deaths
Mar 1979 Unaccompanied Sonata
July 1979 Deep Breathing Exercises
Jan 1980 Fat Farm
June 1981 A Sepulcher of Songs


Those ones I specifically remember reading when they came out in Omni.  Between him and Spider Robinson's Callahan's stories in Omni, I ended up with a core of slightly cynical hope.  Even now, I still think Unaccompanied Sonata is one of the most darkly beautiful short stories I've ever read, and for decades recommended it as a good introduction to OSC.  I've kept The Changed Man and The King of Worlds in mind since I became a father.

With his anti gay writings, I became concerned.  When he was calling people against the war in Iraq effectively anti-American (go look up his "essays" at his <a href="http://www.ornery.org">foam at the mouth site</a> and judge for yourself) I got pissed.  When he said critics of his political stances were taking food away from his family, I said, "fark you OSC, STARVE, you bastard." and haven't bought a book of his since.
 
2013-02-16 09:47:29 PM
I apparently fail at HTML with the new editor.  His foam at the mouth site is here.
 
2013-02-16 09:59:31 PM

LowbrowDeluxe: T-Bone42: I love Sci Fi, and I still consider Card to be one of my favorite authors. I devoured Ender's Game, and for a while I would read anything of his I could get my hands on. He wrote some really trippy stuff.

I enjoy a lot of the works that Card, Tom Cruise and Picasso have produced, even if I don't share their views on gayness, scientology and fascism respectively. I understand that that Michaelangelo fella was kind of racist, too. At some point you have to separate the artist from the art and judge them separately as best you can.

Really?  And how are you enjoying his work as a board member of the National Organization for Marriage?  Because I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that once you take a job actively involving yourself in politics, you're a politician and whatever you claim your day job is can only be described as a hobby.


I really haven't been paying much attention to whatever he's up to since he wrote "The Folk on The Fringe" stuff which I couldn't get interested in. I wasn't aware he was on the board of the National Organization for Marriage until you just said that, actually. I wasn't aware of NOM's existence until I read this article. I am aware that there are all these haters out there that like to spend their free time worrying about the sexual behavior and preferences of others, they like to form groups with vaguely patriotic names, and they occassionally send missives to the press expressing their misplaced sense of outrage. The press, of course, welcomes this because it helps keep the "controversy" alive.

My reaction is usually "Oh, hating on gays is still a thing with some people nowadays? Weird." I was surprised to find out he is one of them. I can't say I was personally disappointed in him since I don't know the guy. It doesn't make their message any more relevant or credible. It may sound like I'm indifferent to the humanitarian issues involved, and I am indeed not. But I just can't get outraged at every little thing the press informs us we should be outraged at in order to be a good citizen, you know? These NOM folks will be at most a footnote in history, and I can't be bothered to keep abreast of their shenanigans.

For what it's worth, I don't recall ever purchasing an OSC book; I borrowed heavily from the library. So I'm not entirely morally compromised.
 
2013-02-16 10:40:31 PM

Xyphoid: The Church is teaching a lot of things that I don't believe are right...

There are people trying to fix things from the inside, and while I don't expect people to just tolerate bigotry, you don't have to react in such a way that it drives more people to bigotry or makes it harder to fix the bigots.


That's fine, but it doesn't really address the point.  If the church is teaching things, then it's perfectly reasonable to attack the church as a whole, even if all of the members might not agree.  Until it either stops teaching them, or the people that are trying to fix things succeed, its message is still being broadcast.

I also don't agree that the reactions are what leads more people to bigotry.  If anything, it leads people away, as they come to the realization that their viewpoints are no longer socially acceptable.
 
2013-02-16 10:41:04 PM

Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.


I can do better than that, I can call you a Goddamn idiot! And blocked!

Nobody sane here is suggesting that Christians have no right to exist, no right to marry who they love, no right to be treated as fully human or as full American citizens. They are also <i>not demanding that other peoples' lives and liberties are subject to the whims of their personal interpretations of their holy text, which are not even shared by all members of their own religion.</i> Because that's something that only narrow-minded, arch-conservative, terroristic zealots do while hiding behind their less radical brethren and pretending that people are persecuting their entire religion.

I don't have a problem with <i>most</i> Christians. I have a problem with you, just <i>you</i>, because you think it's your right and your destiny to control the lives of everyone around you based on spurious, misinterpreted, cherry-picked rules-lawyered bullshiat.

Try again.
 
2013-02-16 10:42:26 PM
...and I didn't know to set it to Raw HTML. Thanks a LOT, new interface.
 
2013-02-16 10:52:25 PM

neongoats: That's because that series was literally the Book of Mormon played out in space. From character names to plot resolutions.


It amazes me that people can take the Book of Mormon seriously and even shoehorn it into the plots of other literary works. I mean, we know, we actually have historical evidence that it was concocted by a con man in order to fleece the rubes and set himself up for life.
 
2013-02-16 10:54:01 PM

Mr. Titanium: Order is very important in reading literature. You should have started by reading Ender's Game and then quit.


This man is not wrong.
 
2013-02-16 11:07:06 PM

BumpInTheNight: Pretty odd stance from a guy who traces muscular men in tiny tights for a living.


You'd think he'd be more encompassing - a wide stance, if you will.
 
2013-02-16 11:11:33 PM
BIgger issue here is that the kids in the forthcoming Ender's Game movie are too damned old. Movie might of been better served as a cgi cartoon.
 
2013-02-16 11:28:58 PM
[Peeks into thread]

*ahem*


Bigotry is a learned behavior.

/Altarboy is my surname
 
2013-02-16 11:31:31 PM
I realize that some science fiction just doesn't stand up to the passage of time well.  After all, according to Arthur Clark, Chief Brody from Jaws should have seen Jupiter erupt into a second sun by now.

But Card's stuff really stinks at this.  The Ender's Game universe, started in '85, has the world taken over by a kid who rose to power by creating a following on what amounts to internet message boards.  Just think about that - any of us could be talking to the next King of the World over on the politics tab.
 
2013-02-16 11:37:10 PM

narkor: A lot of Sci-Fi authors have some pretty extreme views. Dan Simmons wrote a SciFi novel (Flashback) which was a long polemic against Democrats and Greens. Neal Ascher abuses anyone who agrees with AGW as a deluded sheep. Heinlein was a proponent of Ayn Rand.


This one here:
upload.wikimedia.org

I remember getting about halfway through it and then going back to pour over the title page looking for a note that said that Terry Goodkind was the author of the series, but that this particular book was written by Zombie Reagan.
 
2013-02-16 11:41:58 PM

theorellior: Mr. Titanium: Order is very important in reading literature. You should have started by reading Ender's Game and then quit.

This man is not wrong.


Ender's Shadow is better than Ender's Game.  Quit there.
 
2013-02-17 12:19:24 AM
I hear they're making Sword of Shannara movies.

Well, actually, they're just taking the Lord of the Rings movies, changing the titles, and dubbing in different names. Terry Brooks fans won't know the difference.
 
2013-02-17 12:30:14 AM
You need to get your farking facts straight. The man has written about gay characters. He has nothing personally against gay people. As a christian, he thinks it's immoral. He's entitled to that opinion, no matter how wrong we may think it. He has never said they should be in jail. Get your facts straight and go pick on someone who deserves it.
 
2013-02-17 12:34:30 AM

narkor: Neal Ascher abuses anyone who agrees with AGW as a deluded sheep.


Aw fark. I didn't need to know that. Fortunately it hasn't seeped into any of his work (that I've noticed, at least).

"The Skinner" is one of my favorite books.
 
2013-02-17 12:35:02 AM

SpdrJay: Well, his writing sucks, so I expected he would be in favor of the gays....


So what you're saying is that you think Gay people aren't sophisticated enough to handle good writing?

Got it.
 
2013-02-17 12:37:14 AM

Lady Indica: That being said, Ender's Game is an extremely good book, and one I think everyone should actually read (yes, it's that good.)


This is false. It's mostly just silly. And boring.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: It read like something Gene Roddenberry wrote for the character of Wesley. I couldn't not picture Wil as Ender


I never thought of that, but it's pretty much dead-on.
 
2013-02-17 12:38:52 AM

BumpInTheNight: Pretty odd stance from a guy who traces muscular men in tiny tights for a living.


He's been hired as a writer, not an inker. Your joke doesn't really work so well now.
 
2013-02-17 12:41:58 AM

Ed Grubermann: The creation of Adam is the first time the Bible does not say "and it was good" after the event.




Nope, it does. Genesis 1:31: וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-כָּל-אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה, וְהִנֵּה-טוֹב מְאֹד; וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי. And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
 
2013-02-17 12:59:03 AM

Bunny Deville: You need to get your farking facts straight. The man has written about gay characters. He has nothing personally against gay people. As a christian, he thinks it's immoral. He's entitled to that opinion, no matter how wrong we may think it. He has never said they should be in jail. Get your facts straight and go pick on someone who deserves it.


He only called for open revolution if same sex marriage is legalized, nothing radical or anything.
 
2013-02-17 01:23:52 AM
Simply because we stand up for traditional marriage, some people feel like it's okay to target us for intimidation and punishment.

No, you're bigots.  There's a difference.  Equal rights for gays poses no threat at all to "traditional marriage," even the Christian version of it that they like to imagine came first.
 
2013-02-17 03:05:53 AM
A guy whose writing I don't like believes things I disagree with. It's great when my choices are easy.
 
2013-02-17 04:03:00 AM

Xyphoid: FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.

I'm a Catholic and I think homosexuality is a-okay.  Outside of higher-up leadership, I've often heard the message of "God is good.  Therefore, if people seek to do good, they seek God, therefore they are good."  It's part of why Catholicism says that Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Zoroastrian... whatever - so long as you are a good person you're going to heaven.


Only because the rise of secular political power put the kabosh on their practice of converting by the sword or burning at the stake. The Catholic Church plays nice because it has to, not because it wants to.
 
2013-02-17 04:15:30 AM

Pentaxian: Ed Grubermann: The creation of Adam is the first time the Bible does not say "and it was good" after the event.

Nope, it does. Genesis 1:31: וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-כָּל-אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה, וְהִנֵּה-טוֹב מְאֹד; וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי. And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


Are you calling Bill Cosby a liar? You bastard!
 
2013-02-17 05:00:25 AM
Why is America the only country that has `un-` attatched to the front as a concept?

"They said the actions were un-french"
"They said the actions were un-german"
"They said the actions were un-brazilian"

What are you, cultists?
 
2013-02-17 05:06:33 AM

dready zim: Why is America the only country that has `un-` attatched to the front as a concept?

"They said the actions were un-french"
"They said the actions were un-german"
"They said the actions were un-brazilian"

What are you, cultists?


They didn't surrender, made awesome sausages or wax their pubes?
 
2013-02-17 05:25:18 AM

fusillade762: narkor: Neal Ascher abuses anyone who agrees with AGW as a deluded sheep.

Aw fark. I didn't need to know that. Fortunately it hasn't seeped into any of his work (that I've noticed, at least).

"The Skinner" is one of my favorite books.


I suggest you never follow him on Twitter (his G+ feed is a bit more restrained). I think I lasted 48 hours before unfollowing.
 
2013-02-17 05:33:24 AM
God forbid someone enjoy science and science-fiction while not being socially 'progressive'. The butthurt suffered when people find a good deal of sci-fi writers don't swing to the left is amusing. What the fark does it matter what these authors believe? Do you enjoy their make believe? Comics and sci-fi both have fan bases that are largely heterosexual males. Is this surprising?

/heinlein was great until his later perv years
//service guarantees citizenship
 
2013-02-17 06:27:06 AM
If you're looking for other sci-fi authors to hate, Isaac Asimov said some pretty homophobic things about gays and lesbians in his autobiography.
 
2013-02-17 06:52:53 AM
Since I'm not as cool and edgy as some of the posters in this thread, I'm going to say that I really enjoyed the Card books that I read.  I found his grasp of history and culture to be very interesting, and I think he tells a good story.  Ender's Game was one of my very favorite books when I was younger.

I always got the feeling from his books that he was somewhat conservative, but I'm extremely disappointed to find out that he's an anti-gay douchebag.
 
2013-02-17 07:14:21 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.


Letting Christian Republicans marry is a threat to democracy.
 
2013-02-17 07:17:30 AM

narkor: If you like an author - be really careful about finding out more about their views. Chances are you'll find them very disappointing.


I can see why you might think this, especially with the Heinlen, but you are wrong.

With respect to Heinlen, his more conservative works tend to be the more approachable ones.  However, Peter F. Hamilton, Phillip K. Dick, Ian M. Banks and many more science fiction and fantasy authors ascribe to fairly liberal or libertarian ideology's.  Hell even Heinlen's work was radical for it's time.

I think that gay (male) protagonists are scarce because they don't play well.  I support gay rights, I vote for gay marriage, but I have little desire to read a book from a gay male perspective.  My reading lists are skewed towards certain genres, but what percentage of All novels are written from a gay male perspective?

The truth is that science fiction tends to be a place where authors push the edges of social conventions, and where authors can experiment with alternative ideas.  If anything, I think you will find that the views and politics expressed in quality science fiction are more encompassing than those represented by other genres.  Try to find even one book in military/action that has a gay male lead.  I cant even think of a mystery/crime novel with a gay male protagonist (not to say they are not out there, just that I have not run across it).
 
2013-02-17 07:41:41 AM
Talented artists sometimes hold reprehensible political views.

/tried to write it in six words or less
//I don't think it can be done
///fun game
 
2013-02-17 09:04:56 AM
Just inform NOM that Card supports evolution.  They put him on the BBQ themselves.
 
2013-02-17 10:31:24 AM

narkor: If you look at the majority of Sci Fi - it's heroic heterosexual men saving stuff (The galaxy, the planet). When Richard K Morgan (Takashi Kovachs books) wrote a gay character who banged dudes the way that his male leads in earlier novels banged women, readers freaked the fark out. Posit Kirk banging all the green chicks he can lay his hands on, but how many bestselling scifi novels have a gay lead?


Well, if the Ho Yay subtext is to be believed, then it wasn't just the green chicks Kirk was banging...
 
2013-02-17 12:45:26 PM

robohobo: /heinlein was great until his later perv years


You don't know much about Heinlein. He and his wife swung IRL from the early days, as I understand it. He simply had the common sense to realize that certain themes wouldn't fly in 1930's-1950's pulps.
 
2013-02-17 12:52:09 PM
That's odd. When I worked at a comics and games shop back in the 80's, one item we had was a cassette of Card performing "The Atheist Sermon", which was sort of a mockery of a hellfire-and-brimstone Christian sermon, but espousing atheism and a scientific outlook. Back then, I wouldn't have seen this coming.
 
2013-02-17 01:16:36 PM

buckler: That's odd. When I worked at a comics and games shop back in the 80's, one item we had was a cassette of Card performing "The Atheist Sermon", which was sort of a mockery of a hellfire-and-brimstone Christian sermon, but espousing atheism and a scientific outlook. Back then, I wouldn't have seen this coming.


This is actually a concern I have with Brian Sanderson.  He is a skilled writer and I have enjoyed a few of his books, but I am sort of worried that as he ages he is going to become more... calcified in reactionary points of view. The last thing I need is to get attached to an author that is going to go all Terry Goodkind on me.  I don't want preaching out of my mental twinkies.
 
2013-02-17 01:26:18 PM

August11: Talented artists sometimes hold reprehensible political views.

/tried to write it in six words or less
//I don't think it can be done
///fun game



Ta-daa.
 
2013-02-17 01:54:29 PM

jfarkinB: robohobo: /heinlein was great until his later perv years

You don't know much about Heinlein. He and his wife swung IRL from the early days, as I understand it. He simply had the common sense to realize that certain themes wouldn't fly in 1930's-1950's pulps.


I was going to say that I actually enjoyed Heinlein more in his later perv years, when he pushed more social issues into his speculative fiction.
 
2013-02-17 02:06:42 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: chewielouie: Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.


The animal kingdom apparently learned it from us, then.


That there is some intelligent design.  I mean, if a banana fitting a monkey's hand is intelligent design, the fact that penii fit in poopii must be intelligent design as well.
 
2013-02-17 02:13:08 PM

gingerjet: redTiburon: I thought he was a flaming liberal. Ok, he's a homophobic flaming liberal.

There is such a thing as a homophobic Bush apologist flaming liberal?


Remember: conservatives go with the barrel of sewage theory of politics.  Just like a single drop of sewage in a barrel of wine makes the whole barrel sewage (but a single drop of wine in a sewage barrel doesn't change it), a single liberal view makes you a flaming lib, no matter HOW MANY conservative views you have.
 
2013-02-17 02:14:14 PM

FormlessOne: jfarkinB: robohobo: /heinlein was great until his later perv years

You don't know much about Heinlein. He and his wife swung IRL from the early days, as I understand it. He simply had the common sense to realize that certain themes wouldn't fly in 1930's-1950's pulps.

I was going to say that I actually enjoyed Heinlein more in his later perv years, when he pushed more social issues into his speculative fiction.


Mostly, Heinlein's social issues were mental exercises.  It's amazing how many people thought SST was his preferred society.  (And it's amazing how many people get SST's society wrong.)
 
2013-02-17 02:16:18 PM

Planterz: August11: Talented artists sometimes hold reprehensible political views.

/tried to write it in six words or less
//I don't think it can be done
///fun game


Ta-daa.


Talented artists sometimes hold reprehensible views.
 
2013-02-17 04:07:16 PM
Christians saying gays can't marry each other because it goes against Christianity makes no sense.  What if the people getting married aren't Christians?


Q: If you were on a soccer team, would you tell someone on a basketball team they can't touch the ball with their hands, because it breaks the rules of soccer?

Q:  How does two people who love each other getting married threaten marriage again?  Doesn't that just make more married people?

Q:  If gays marry each other, the pool of available heterosexual mates is enriched.  If you are heterosexual, is this a good or a bad thing?  Explain.

Q:  Does the (current) ease by which one can file for divorce threaten marriage? 

Q:  Jesus had a dozen really close male friends, and not much contact with females.  Could Jesus have been gay?  Or if not, possibly bi?  Statistically in 12 guys, or 13 if you count His Son, at least one was gay.  Who was it?
 

Q:  Do you think people 2,000 years ago had the same sexual hangups some Christians have in the United States today?

Q:  Do you think people fifty years from now will have the same sexual hangups some Christians have in the United States today?

Q:  Do you believe there have always been gays?  If so, how have they not destroyed society yet?  If not, explain why you think this is so, and when gays first appeared. 

Q:  If God were against gays, why has He not cast them into the Sun?  Why did He create gays in the first place?

Q:  The Bible doens't say men are allowed to breathe air.  Does breathing offend God?

Q:  Blowjobs are not mentioned in the bible.  Does a beej offend God if it's a female doing the work?
 
2013-02-17 07:46:33 PM
studebaker hoch: Christians saying gays can't marry each other because it goes against Christianity makes no sense.  What if the people getting married aren't Christians?


Q: If you were on a soccer team, would you tell someone on a basketball team they can't touch the ball with their hands, because it breaks the rules of soccer?

Of course, because that heathen should be playing soccer, not basketball.  Basketball is a sinful sport, what with all that ball touching.

Q:  How does two people who love each other getting married threaten marriage again?  Doesn't that just make more married people?

You're using up all the marriage.  Stop it.

Q:  If gays marry each other, the pool of available heterosexual mates is enriched.  If you are heterosexual, is this a good or a bad thing?  Explain.

It's bad, because you can't marry that cute lesbian.  She should be forced to be straight and only make out with women for my personal entertainment.

Q:  Does the (current) ease by which one can file for divorce threaten marriage?

Only when the woman does it.

Q:  Jesus had a dozen really close male friends, and not much contact with females.  Could Jesus have been gay?  Or if not, possibly bi?  Statistically in 12 guys, or 13 if you count His Son, at least one was gay.  Who was it?

Judas.

Q:  Do you think people 2,000 years ago had the same sexual hangups some Christians have in the United States today?

If they were good Christians, they better have!

Q:  Do you think people fifty years from now will have the same sexual hangups some Christians have in the United States today?

They better!

Q:  Do you believe there have always been gays?  If so, how have they not destroyed society yet?  If not, explain why you think this is so, and when gays first appeared.

Cain was gay and killed his bro because he wouldn't be gay with him.  He is the father of all gays.
Little know fact:  The mark of Cain is fabulousness.

Q:  If God were against gays, why has He not cast them into the Sun?  Why did He create gays in the first place?

It's an amazing testament to his glory.  See, for God to be all wise and all just, he had to create gays.  God said you can't lay with a man as you do with a woman, right?  But, if there was no one who wanted to do that, what would be the point of him mentioning that?  It would be dumb and God would be dumb.  So, he had to make gays so his just proclamation would make sense.  He truly is an awesome God, isn't he?

Q:  The Bible doens't say men are allowed to breathe air.  Does breathing offend God?

Dude, EVERYTHING offends God.  Have you even read the Bible?

Q:  Blowjobs are not mentioned in the bible.  Does a beej offend God if it's a female doing the work?

Er, on second thought, this is the only thing that doesn't offend God.  In fact, he wishes more of it, and he wishes it on me particularly.  So get cracking females.
 
2013-02-17 09:36:22 PM

narkor: Sci Fi authors skew conservative because SciFi itself (socially) skews conservative.


Perhaps more precisely, I think it's that Sci Fi authors skew libertarian because Sci FI itself skews highly Social Dominance Orientation, low Right Wing Authoritarian. (Card may be an exception on the latter, which doesn't help.)
 
2013-02-17 10:00:40 PM

studebaker hoch: Does a beej offend God if it's a female doing the work?


Only if she spits.
 
2013-02-17 10:04:09 PM

Xyphoid: chewielouie: FirstNationalBastard: Lee451: OSC's views on homnosexuality are no more radical than most of the views here on Christians/Conservatives.

/Call me wrong.

Homosexuality is natural, and something one is born as.

Christianity and Republicanism are learned behaviors that are most definitely evil and unnatural.

Yeah, poopers were made for penises . . . naturally.

Were they made explicitly against them?  I was unaware that there were outward facing thorns in there that allow poop to go by just fine, but anything entering got all mangled and shredded.  What about blowjobs?  I guess you're saying either blowjobs for anybody are out, or that you just love the idea of a man licking and sucking on another man's dick until he finishes.  That's a bold position to take.

What about if a man and man wanted to get married and promised not to put penises in butts?  Maybe just mutual masturbation, or even just plain old fashioned masturbation, while having a rich emotional connection?


You know people with same sex attraction can be Mormon. They can't act on it like a sex addict can't or an alcoholic can't. Nobody is perfect!

/I am not a huge fan of Orson Scott Card.
 
2013-02-17 10:24:57 PM
Farker Soze

God said you can't lay with a man as you do with a woman, right?

That was the personal opinion of a man named Leviticus.  When Leviticus can create a universe, we'll start taking him seriously.
 
2013-02-17 11:09:31 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Oh, I'm sorry, Orson, I thought people had a right to express disagreement, and decide for themselves what they want to spend their money on.


Freedom of Speech is only applicable for good, white, God-fearin' 'Murcans against blah usurpers.

/When Tea Party sez "We came unarmed...this time": Yay freedom of speech!
/When Occupy sez "Please, sir, I want some more": Have some pepper spray and get out of my sight, hippie!
 
2013-02-18 12:17:17 AM
I've decided that this December I'm going to buy a ticket to the shiattiest family comedy that's out at the time and sneak into Ender's Game. Because fark Orson Scott Card, that's why.
 
2013-02-18 12:43:37 AM
I thought that Orson Scott Card was smarter than that...The BS rolls on.
 
2013-02-18 08:06:04 PM
If God actually did feel as strongly against gays (even after he built the perfect body for being gay), they why didn't he make "no homo" one of the Ten Commandments?

He didn't.

The closest I'm seeing is "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor's Ass".  Doesn't say you can't boink said neighbor, but you are commanded by GOD not to sit around in a perpetual state of lust without doing anything about it.  Life is short.  Grow a pair and go say hello.

/ God is cool.
 
2013-02-18 11:54:25 PM

KhamanV: fusillade762: Weaver95: oh, and writers should keep their politics in their stories and not make a big deal about 'em in public.  you still gotta sell books.  STFU and be a writer, avoid politics and write stories.

I'm still sad that Dan Simmons pulled a Dennis Miller after 9/11. "Flashback" was like reading Tea Party doomsday propaganda.

Is that what the fark happened to Simmons?  I downloaded samples from Amazon for his last couple of books and thought they were complete shiat.

On the other hand, I really think he spooged out his only good work in the first two books of his John Keats uber-fanfic, the Hyperion Cantos.  I liked the other half, in the sort of way I liked 'God Emperor of Dune,' which is not entirely a compliment.


Simmons got caught up in his own head.  When you write a 1,000 page SF novel and 1/3 of it consists of 2 robots going on and on about Proust and Teilhard du Chardin, you need to just stop writing.
 
2013-02-19 11:55:22 AM
"Simply because we stand up for traditional marriage bigotry and hatemongering, some people feel like it's okay to target us for intimidation and punishment."

Reap what you sow, dickhole.
 
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