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(CNN)   A Mississippi couple demanded that their newborn not be handled by African-American personnel. Did I say Mississippian? I meant Michigan. Stupid north   (cnn.com) divider line 333
    More: Stupid, African-Americans, Michigan  
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14046 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2013 at 12:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-17 02:44:56 AM

Wayne 985: Anyone who defends the hospital's action is either a racist or a coward (or perhaps both).

Period. The racists at least have the excuse of being stupid; cowards know better, but capitulate out of fear.


Or, perhaps, they just respect the basic human right to freedom of association.
 
2013-02-17 02:50:58 AM

Wayne 985: Amos Quito: Wayne 985: Who gives a shiat? The International Council of Nurses is not Hippocrates. It's a voluntary federation of nurses. What is this babble?

The job of the nurses (and all hospital staff) is to serve the interests of the patients - in this case, a newborn child.

As for the butthurt, there's an app for that:

[www.preparationh.com image 371x167]

And your position is that a black woman couldn't do that. Got it.


For the record, I'm bored and not even terribly concerned with further replies here. Some of you have simply outed yourselves as moral cowards, which is even worse than the SS wannabe. You've endorsed his actions, but knew better all along. For that, you can -uck off, because you're deserving of ridicule.
 
2013-02-17 03:25:29 AM

TheEdibleSnuggie: She's suing because the hospital denied her the opportunity and the ability to perform her JOB based on her RACE.


Nowhere in the article does it even remotely suggest that.
 
2013-02-17 03:27:37 AM

DrPainMD: TheEdibleSnuggie: She's suing because the hospital denied her the opportunity and the ability to perform her JOB based on her RACE.

Nowhere in the article does it even remotely suggest that.


Actually, it says just the opposite. She was reassigned, meaning that she continued to do her job. The hospital did not discriminate against her in any way, shape or form.
 
2013-02-17 08:35:51 AM

ramblinwreck: Horse Head Bookends: ramblinwreck: Lochsteppe: TheOther: Battle's manager called her at home to tell her she would be reassigned -- and why, the suit says.

Wouldn't HIPAA bar that information being passed along?... and in a fight between HIPAA and Civil Rights Act of 1964, which side prevails?

/correct hospital response was: take yor crackerass baby somewheres else, then.

There doesn't seem to be any medically relevant information contained in their request - the father didn't say "Keep that black woman away from my baby because she triggers my PTSD."

It's also nothing at all like a religious exclusion, for those of you trying to make that argument.  You can argue that religious excuses in general are phony-baloney, and maybe they are, but they're also protected by law to some degree.  This kind of discrimination is not.

Does there have to be a medically relevant request?  If I don't want a woman providing treatment, I can make that request and it would need to be honored.  I could refuse treatment from a male nurse because of some BS reason like, "males aren't as compassionate or caring" and I bet the man would probably shrug it off, maybe complain for a minute, then move on with his life.

How exactly are race and gender the same thing?

You tell me.  Both are protected classes.  Both for BS reasons.


And just what "BS reasons" would those be? Or do you consider "history of marginalization" BS?
 
2013-02-17 08:50:07 AM

omeganuepsilon: Mr. Right: The hospital's responsibility here was to its employee.

Mr. Right: If he doesn't want his child cared for by a good nurse, he may go to another hospital.

omeganuepsilon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Geneva

THE HEALTH OF MY PATIENT will be my first consideration;
I WILL NOT PERMIT considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient;



Duty to your patient involves the best interests of their health, and ONLY that. You don't need to pander to their prejudices any more than you need to provide copies of Hustler magazine in their room or make sure they get BBC on their room tv's. It's just like when I was in the military- duty to my country meant obeying LAWFUL commands. If a senior NCO or a senior Officer, for that matter, asked even the lowest private in the service to kiss his shoes, he would be given a resounding "fark you, Sir" from one and all, and they damn well knew it.
 
2013-02-17 08:58:23 AM

Wayne 985: Anyone who defends the hospital's action is either a racist or a coward (or perhaps both).

Period. The racists at least have the excuse of being stupid; cowards know better, but capitulate out of fear.


THIS.
I'd ten times rather be a racist than a coward- a racist may be educated out of his or her stupidity, a coward is a coward for life.
 
2013-02-17 09:43:33 AM

cynicalbastard: omeganuepsilon: Mr. Right: The hospital's responsibility here was to its employee.

Mr. Right: If he doesn't want his child cared for by a good nurse, he may go to another hospital.

omeganuepsilon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Geneva

THE HEALTH OF MY PATIENT will be my first consideration;
I WILL NOT PERMIT considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient;


Duty to your patient involves the best interests of their health, and ONLY that. You don't need to pander to their prejudices any more than you need to provide copies of Hustler magazine in their room or make sure they get BBC on their room tv's. It's just like when I was in the military- duty to my country meant obeying LAWFUL commands. If a senior NCO or a senior Officer, for that matter, asked even the lowest private in the service to kiss his shoes, he would be given a resounding "fark you, Sir" from one and all, and they damn well knew it.


Pandering = Acquiescing

If you want to claim it was "pandering" you'll have to prove it was with a "wink wink, nudge nudge" or whatever racist comments or something along those lines, and then it's prosecutable as harassment.

All duty requires sacrifice.  When in the military you had to maintain a physical standard, couldn't grow facial hair except a limited moustache, had to keep your hear within regs, couldn't protest in uniform, talk to the media without approval, couldn't go X distance from base without permission, or go to blacklisted bars and pubs(typically because they had a thing against the military and fights were common).

Both of the bolded are comparable to what was required of the nurse in this situation.  Following rules and guidelines is not "pandering" it's acquiescing to established standards.

No one was deprived of any rights or civil liberties here.  If you want to prove your case, that is what it hinges on.

No different than people asking others in this forum to not feed the trolls.  It's more akin to asking people to follow fark's posting rules.
 
2013-02-17 09:57:40 AM
omeganuepsilon:
All duty requires sacrifice.  When in the military you had to maintain a physical standard, couldn't grow facial hair except a limited moustache, had to keep your hear within regs, couldn't protest in uniform, talk to the media without approval, couldn't go X distance from base without permission, or go to blacklisted bars and pubs(typically because they had a thing against the military and fights were common).

Both of the bolded are comparable to what was required of the nurse in this situation.  Following rules and guidelines is not "pandering" it's acquiescing to established standards.

No one was deprived of any rights or civil liberties here. ...



While you are right about much of the proceeding concerning the military, you still don't get it regarding what is an illegal order- or even request.
In the military, whilst I could certainly be told to get a haircut, I could NOT be told to sign a pre-flight check I had not carried out. And had this racist ape, for example, demanded that the nurses looking after his kids all be dressed in thongs he would have been told- and rightly so- to take a long walk off a short pier. And this should have been the case here.
 
2013-02-17 10:09:17 AM

cynicalbastard: While you are right about much of the proceeding concerning the military, you still don't get it regarding what is an illegal order- or even request.
In the military, whilst I could certainly be told to get a haircut, I could NOT be told to sign a pre-flight check I had not carried out


That is a  Non sequitur.
No one told the nurse to do something otherwise illegal or even against hospital guidelines.

Sleeping with another man's spouse is not illegal, but the military will shuffle around personnel to avoid any possible effects of any possible animosity.
 
2013-02-17 10:56:00 AM

omeganuepsilon: cynicalbastard: While you are right about much of the proceeding concerning the military, you still don't get it regarding what is an illegal order- or even request.
In the military, whilst I could certainly be told to get a haircut, I could NOT be told to sign a pre-flight check I had not carried out

That is a  Non sequitur.
No one told the nurse to do something otherwise illegal or even against hospital guidelines.

Sleeping with another man's spouse is not illegal, but the military will shuffle around personnel to avoid any possible effects of any possible animosity.


No, but the dork was trying to tell the hospital to do something illegal- change work assignments based on race. If the admin had an ounce of sense he would've said "Sure, whatever" and then once he was out of the room placed the request in file 13. Same as you would do if someone said "Purple aliens are going to eat my babby if the whole staff doesn't get together and read Ezekial once a day."
 
2013-02-17 11:12:21 AM

cynicalbastard: omeganuepsilon: cynicalbastard: While you are right about much of the proceeding concerning the military, you still don't get it regarding what is an illegal order- or even request.
In the military, whilst I could certainly be told to get a haircut, I could NOT be told to sign a pre-flight check I had not carried out

That is a  Non sequitur.
No one told the nurse to do something otherwise illegal or even against hospital guidelines.

Sleeping with another man's spouse is not illegal, but the military will shuffle around personnel to avoid any possible effects of any possible animosity.

No, but the dork was trying to tell the hospital to do something illegal- change work assignments based on race. If the admin had an ounce of sense he would've said "Sure, whatever" and then once he was out of the room placed the request in file 13. Same as you would do if someone said "Purple aliens are going to eat my babby if the whole staff doesn't get together and read Ezekial once a day."


Regardless of his morality, once the preference is stated, it is understood that intentionally placing a black person close to him would be to instigate confrontation and animmosity.  He is the problem to be avoided.

It is the duty of the hospital, as with the military, to avoid such circumstances.

They are not treating her differently because of the way she is, they are treating him differently because of the way he is.

No one is saying that the racist is right, they are merely avoiding problems to keep the hospital as the optimal setting for recovery as possible.

That it is racism in this case is irrelevant as to the hospital guidelines.  If he were an asshole of the highest regard on a more socially normal sense, the hospital would by rights not throw the new girls in there with him, but the nurses that can handle it without reacting in a great manner, regardless of sex.

If it were a supreme biatch who's complaining about men, if enough staff exists, they would give her only women staff.

You're trying to paint the hospital as evil, and that just isn't the case.

Save a tree, stop putting yourselves up on crosses, and trying to blame "the man".
 
2013-02-17 11:26:24 AM

omeganuepsilon: Regardless of his morality, once the preference is stated, it is understood that intentionally placing a black person close to him would be to instigate confrontation and animmosity.  He is the problem to be avoided.


Then the answer is even simpler. If the father is going to be a problem in an environment where you have multi-racial staff, you remove his visiting privileges. I've seen numbers of cases where even immediate family were removed and kept out of a hospital by security because, quite simply put, they were assholes.
 
2013-02-17 11:39:30 AM
In any case, far as I'm concerned, if this guy's a neo-Nazi he's lost any right to be treated as a rational human being. My parents killed people like him. Apparently we shouldn't have stopped.
 
2013-02-17 11:50:38 AM

cynicalbastard: omeganuepsilon: Regardless of his morality, once the preference is stated, it is understood that intentionally placing a black person close to him would be to instigate confrontation and animmosity.  He is the problem to be avoided.

Then the answer is even simpler. If the father is going to be a problem in an environment where you have multi-racial staff, you remove his visiting privileges. I've seen numbers of cases where even immediate family were removed and kept out of a hospital by security because, quite simply put, they were assholes.


That I would go for as well, if he was believably confrontational.   That the hospital chose to avoid testing that is also a reasonable thing.  To maintain peace and achieve one's goals typically takes that kind of give and take, concessions on both sides of the fence.

That is what can be infuriating about racists and the like.  That they can be upfront about it and ask for deferential treatment as would any other sick or disturbed individual, is the least troublesome of all possible ways they can be a bigot.  They actually achieve being a humble asshole. Admit it right up front, and there's not much you can legally do but deal with it as best you can, which is to treat it as a disability.

There is some merit in the idea of "turn the other cheek" at times.  Can't live life that way, but at times it really is the best way out of a situation.

IMO, it's kind of like people burning the flag that makes people angry.  Sure, it's understandably loathsome  but it's still a legal thing.  In other countries you do such a thing and you could die by firing squad or get beheaded on film.

I'm proud to live in a country that's civilized enough to protect that right, yet one that doesn't condone it socially.
 
2013-02-17 01:42:58 PM

ReapTheChaos: I don't know why southerners get such a bad rep for being racist.  I grew up in the north but spent most of my life in the south, I've known way more racists up there than down here.


Yes, hmm...I wonder where all those "Northern" racists came from...
 
2013-02-17 02:28:29 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: /Nah, i was just smacking the ball back in your court. And don't call me Shirley.


:D
 
2013-02-17 02:46:49 PM
I really hope there is another "fundy pharmacist refuses to dispense birth control" thread hard on the heels of this one, because the resultant hypocrisy would be lulzy as fark.
 
2013-02-17 03:11:47 PM

cynicalbastard: In any case, far as I'm concerned, if this guy's a neo-Nazi he's lost any right to be treated as a rational human being. My parents killed people like him. Apparently we shouldn't have stopped.


Both your parents saw combat against the Nazis? You mom must have been a real hardass.

Or a Russian fighter pilot. (Who were also hardass).
 
2013-02-17 04:05:24 PM

eggrolls: cynicalbastard: In any case, far as I'm concerned, if this guy's a neo-Nazi he's lost any right to be treated as a rational human being. My parents killed people like him. Apparently we shouldn't have stopped.

Both your parents saw combat against the Nazis? You mom must have been a real hardass.

Or a Russian fighter pilot. (Who were also hardass).



Or French.  About 20% of  La Résistance Française were women.
 
2013-02-17 05:06:01 PM

Marquis de Sod: ReapTheChaos: I don't know why southerners get such a bad rep for being racist.  I grew up in the north but spent most of my life in the south, I've known way more racists up there than down here.

Yes, hmm...I wonder where all those "Northern" racists came from...


Born and raised there.
 
2013-02-17 07:05:07 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Coco LaFemme: That doesn't mean though, that there are no racists/bigots/assholes in Northern states. There are plenty. Just like there are non-racists/assholes/bigots in Southern states. I'm one of them. However, the South has more of what I'd call "institutional racism", whereas the North has more passive racism.

Yeah, I'll take this.

Plus Flint = Mid Michigan = where most of the racist douchebags in this state end up.


Seriously?  There's plenty in Mid-Michigan, but most of them are west of Lansing and north of Bay City.
 
2013-02-17 07:29:27 PM

FloydA: eggrolls: cynicalbastard: In any case, far as I'm concerned, if this guy's a neo-Nazi he's lost any right to be treated as a rational human being. My parents killed people like him. Apparently we shouldn't have stopped.

Both your parents saw combat against the Nazis? You mom must have been a real hardass.

Or a Russian fighter pilot. (Who were also hardass).


Or French.  About 20% of  La Résistance Française were women.


Exactement.
 
2013-02-17 10:04:13 PM

cynicalbastard: FloydA: eggrolls: cynicalbastard: In any case, far as I'm concerned, if this guy's a neo-Nazi he's lost any right to be treated as a rational human being. My parents killed people like him. Apparently we shouldn't have stopped.

Both your parents saw combat against the Nazis? You mom must have been a real hardass.

Or a Russian fighter pilot. (Who were also hardass).


Or French.  About 20% of  La Résistance Française were women.

Exactement.


If either of your parents are still around, buy them a drink for me.
If not, have one yourself.  You're descended from good people.
 
2013-02-17 10:24:53 PM
The upper midwest tends a bit less racist than the Northeast or Pacific Coast, but not as racist as the Derp South.
And there's the occasional outliers all across the US.
 
2013-02-17 11:05:14 PM

omeganuepsilon: ... They are not treating her differently because of the way she is, they are treating him differently because of the way he is...


You've just outed yourself as a troll.
 
2013-02-17 11:13:33 PM

Wayne 985: Amos Quito: Wayne 985: Who gives a shiat? The International Council of Nurses is not Hippocrates. It's a voluntary federation of nurses. What is this babble?

The job of the nurses (and all hospital staff) is to serve the interests of the patients - in this case, a newborn child.

As for the butthurt, there's an app for that:

[www.preparationh.com image 371x167]

And your position is that a black woman couldn't do that. Got it.



Of course a black woman could have done that, but she was not the ONLY person that could care for the child, and what was the hospital's alternative?

Should they have surrounded the nurse in a coddling chorus of Kumbaya while pummeling the father with Jell-O pudding and unplugged the child from life-support?

Should they have created a politically-correct scene, prioritizing the "feelings" of the nurse over the care of the infant?

Should they have alerted the media so that they could have live coverage as they tossed the infant and his (asshole) father onto the street so that they could PROVE TO THE WORLD that THEY hold political correctness as a higher priority than patient care?

Your knee-JERK reaction is as logical as it is (sadly) predictable, Wayne 985.
 
2013-02-17 11:33:37 PM

Wayne 985: omeganuepsilon: ... They are not treating her differently because of the way she is, they are treating him differently because of the way he is...

You've just outed yourself as a troll.


i603.photobucket.com
 
2013-02-18 03:51:57 AM

cynicalbastard: No, but the dork was trying to tell the hospital to do something illegal- change work assignments based on race.


Please site the law that says that that's illegal.
 
2013-02-18 03:54:17 AM

cynicalbastard: In any case, far as I'm concerned, if this guy's a neo-Nazi he's lost any right to be treated as a rational human being.


Do you know who else said that people lost the right to be treated like humans due to their beliefs?

My parents killed people like him. Apparently we shouldn't have stopped.

But, then you'd be dead.
 
2013-02-18 09:33:03 AM

DrPainMD: cynicalbastard: No, but the dork was trying to tell the hospital to do something illegal- change work assignments based on race.

Please site the law that says that that's illegal.


It creates a hostile work environment and discriminates based on race. The hospital's lawyer had to reverse the decision, you dolt.
 
2013-02-19 03:09:13 PM

Wayne 985: DrPainMD: cynicalbastard: No, but the dork was trying to tell the hospital to do something illegal- change work assignments based on race.

Please site the law that says that that's illegal.

It creates a hostile work environment and discriminates based on race. The hospital's lawyer had to reverse the decision, you dolt.


You still haven't sited the law that was violated. Because you can't.
 
2013-02-19 07:37:48 PM

DrPainMD: You still haven't sited the law that was violated. Because you can't.


I believe it's because you're asking him to do something that doesn't make any sense. Now if you want him to cite the law, well I could get behind that. Though he's probably right, and besides at this stage it isn't even worth looking up.
 
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