Counter_Intelligent: TiiiMMMaHHH: The My Little Pony Killer: I see all the cool, adult people have showed up to express to the rest of us how very adult they are, what with worrying about what others do with their time and all.

Such mature responses we get from them, as well.

dude,  from a darwinian standpoint, adults have every right to be weary of, and disgusted by, any organism that is clearly defunct or mentally unstable.  It took millenia of evolution to reach this point.  50+ generations of mine and your ancestors toiled and sacrificed to keep the family alive.  And for what?  So a bunch of opulent, self indulgent farkwads can watch my little pony, or live in a bar somewhere till they're 40, or suck a D instead of impregnating a V?  It's like spitting on the graves of all that made your life possible.

/They agree with me, im sure.
//Suck that D after you impregnate that V, you selfish twinkie.

WTF did I just read?

Someone trying to justify his own miserable life by telling everyone how miserable they should feel for being happy or comfortable in their own skin?

Also, the fact that her brother MARRIED into Royalty but Twilight became a princess of her own merit makes the feminist in me smile.

Way to turn the tables on girly show tropes! :]

My two bits:

Like most of you, I thought it felt rushed. I loved the premise of switched cutie marks, and I wanted to see more of the havoc, or at least let each resolution carry the same weight as Fluttershy regaining her purpose. They could have ended with the other five blasting Twilight and leaving a star-shaped scorch mark with a "To be continued..." but that probably would have traumatized the children in the audience. I'm okay with alicorn Twilight, but she's now princess of...what, exactly? Why does she have to be a princess at all?

/So, Twilight has her PhD. Her dissertation was only one sentence, but it took three years of research to write it.
//Favorite episode of the season, everyone? Mine was "Magic Duel."

I'll just leave this here... ^_^

I just watched it again in higher quality on Youtube.

Did anyone else notice the vague Jesus/Messiah allegory.

The 3 Princesses [Celestia, Luna, Cadence] = the Trinity. Twilight being reborn as a Alicorn and first being seen by her "disciples" [mane 6].

/Love over-analizing a kid's show
//The writers really do their best with whatever corporate gives them

TiiiMMMaHHH: The My Little Pony Killer: I see all the cool, adult people have showed up to express to the rest of us how very adult they are, what with worrying about what others do with their time and all.

Such mature responses we get from them, as well.

dude,  from a darwinian standpoint, adults have every right to be weary of, and disgusted by, any organism that is clearly defunct or mentally unstable.  It took millenia of evolution to reach this point.  50+ generations of mine and your ancestors toiled and sacrificed to keep the family alive.  And for what?  So a bunch of opulent, self indulgent farkwads can watch my little pony, or live in a bar somewhere till they're 40, or suck a D instead of impregnating a V?  It's like spitting on the graves of all that made your life possible.

/They agree with me, im sure.
//Suck that D after you impregnate that V, you selfish twinkie.

WTF did I just read?

Dear Princess Celestia,

Today I learned that after a massive reorganization that leaves everypony in jobs for which they're ill-suited and marginally competent at best, and downright miserable at worst, the correct course of action is to quit, start your own company (with blackjack, and hookers!), and then poach all of your former co-workers, because when the articles of incorporation are signed, you become a God!

Thank you so much for the loans from Canterlot Library's business section. You know how I love books! "The Mythical Mare-Month" is still pretty good, but if I catch anypony with a copy of "7 Habits of Highly Effective Ponies", "Who Hooved my cheese?" on their desks, I will end them.

P.S. What did Luna mean when she said "Blue Horseshoe loves Endiclop Steel?"



P.P.S. Spike, don't write that last one down. I think I figured it out.

Your avaricious student,
Twilight Farkle.

Ok. I'll flat out admit it...

This show kicked my ass today.

Granted, I am already an emotional mess from becoming a grandfather this week, and dealing with multiple high-stress issues, and no sleep... but I absolutely lost it during this episode and bawled. I really did.

/Blame the wildlife rehabbers I work with. When Angel reminded Fluttershy of her destiny I just lost it, because it reminded me of all the animals I have helped and been close to over the last decade, especially our rehab resident raccoons and one wonderful 13 year old squirrel, who have been wonderful little friends over the last year... and knowing that I am not really going to see them much anymore as I am not working for the rehab anymore.

//I love this silly silly kids show. I really do. I hope it stays this much fun.

///I thought the songs were terrific.

The My Little Pony Killer: I still don't get what's supposed to be so rage-inducing about Twilight Sparkle's character development.

Me neither.



Everything's gonna be just fine.

Aesthetically, the switch from "6 peers, 2 unicorns, 2 pegasi, 2 earth ponies" to "5 ponies and a demigod" breaks a few symmetries and feels a little weird, and from a pure storyline angle, it's a great way to end the series. Purely artistic considerations sometimes have to be sacrificed to business realities. It's still a good way to end the season and give the writers a clean slate for Season 4.

Mid_mo_mad_man: Maybe with the season ending you bronies can become real men. Leave your mom's basement and live life. Who knows there might be a lady willing to talk to you.

Are you some kind of aspie or something? You keep trying to troll people who don't give a single flying fark what you, or any other hater, thinks of them.

DERPY!!!!!!

/right before the ending musical number, hidden way, way waaaaaay in the background of the wide shot, with her Derpy eyes and all.

...and again right after the chariot zooms past everyone, before the shot cuts back to the front marching view.

Dinobot: Apparently, only those that reach Ubermensch (or Ubermare) have the right to govern other ponies...

Yeah I got that vibe as well.

Before my hubby became a brony he'd argued that Equestria is a communist monarchy, lip service about "friendship" but Earth Ponies work, Pegasus = Army, and Unicorns = Rulers. It also works with Plato's republic and the "myth of metals".

Spanky_McFarksalot: so that headline makes sense to some people?

Much more sense than, oh, say

With Bayern up another 3 points, 2nd place Dortmund hopes to hold off 4th place Frankfurt, is there any hope for them left? How many Farkers will come in just to comment on how they don't understand what's going on? Mmm Leberkaese

Mid_mo_mad_man: Maybe with the season ending you bronies can become real men. Leave your mom's basement and live life. Who knows there might be a lady willing to talk to you.

Bah!

The light is too bright, and if you talk to one of these fe-males, it would probably just lead to the court taking half your stuff in the divorce.

Well, the season is over, as are the weekly threads for the time being.

I suppose all that's left to say is See You Next Tuesday...

Skyfrog: I watched the episode again this evening and I liked it better this time around, but many parts still bug me. How much time passed in this episode? Wasn't it just one day? Yet Carousel Boutique is boarded up and dilapidated, the farm is falling apart and all the crops are dead, and every pony in town is angry or depressed just because Pinkie isn't there being goofy?

Rainbow Dash's special talent isn't controlling the weather, that's just her job and she shares it with many others. There shouldn't have been a huge disaster just because she wasn't doing it and if Rarity was so terrible at it why didn't they fire her? Why was Pinkie Pie all alone on the farm or even there at all? Didn't Applejack's family found the town and start the farm? Why would they hire Pinkie if she was so bad at it?

I did like the scenes with Twilight and Celestia and the songs were great, though they kind of squeezed too many into a single episode I think. It was great seeing Derpy and some of the other little used background ponies though Vinyl Scratch looked really strange, like a fan drawing or something.

Everyone has mentioned how rushed it felt but I couldn't help but notice some of the glaring animation errors like Rainbow Dash having her normal cutie mark for a moment in one scene, same thing for Fluttershy, hair styles being wrong in some scenes, Applejack's missing element, etc. The whole episode just felt haphazardly thrown together at the last minute. It was just not the quality we usually get from a season finale, or especially a series finale as it was probably originally written to be. I hope the quality picks back up in season 4, overall this season hasn't really been up to the show's standards.

My theory was that it was more like an alternate timeline, Star-Trek-10-style; as Twi said, it isn't just their memories, their true selves had been changed. It was as if they'd had those cutie marks since the beginning of the show, retroactively. If Rarity had Dash's mark, for example, she'd spend her time making dazzling skyviews, or at any rate, trying to: 'Too last season?'

Some had tried to pass it off as being an off-day, 'not good at the thundery ones', but their responses to Twilight were still 'My cutie mark? I'm simply doing what I've been doing since the day I'd gotten it'.

Applejack, being as industrious and fair-dealing as she is, decided to close down until she'd gotten the hang of it, instead of selling an inferior product. Fluttershy saw the writing on the wall and decided to quit outright, but Pinkie's farmer job and Dash's animal job really don't allow for a great deal of free-time for introspection in the middle of a time-critical calamity, so their reactions were more of 'damn, why am I so bad at this today? I'm supposed to be good at this.'

That's why it took the Elements of Harmony themselves to undo it; the spell would tangle itself up pretty quickly, and would require a great deal of power to undo, essentially the original soul-change AND a paradox both in one, and not something easily counter-cursed.

*

As far as being rushed, it's an episode written entirely by the team's musician and lyricist, respectively. So what you're getting is Ponies:The musical. Had they done it 'Phineas and Ferb'-style instead of as a finale, "let's do today's episode as a musical" "Do you think the other characters will go along with it?" "Why wouldn't they? It'll be fun!" the setup would have made more sense, and feel less rushed/moving along from one song to another. When I rewatched it, realizing it was a musical, I really enjoyed it and got a lot more out of it.

Madbassist1: ravenlore: So are the same folks trolling the Pony threads trolling the Doctor Who threads?

I haven't been paying attention.

The wrestling threads too. Don't forget them.


Hell, they were trolling the Homestar Runner threads bloody ten years ago.

knowing that this was supposed to be the series finale, this is a damn good episode.

The scene where Twilight meets Celestia in the the ether reminded me of Picard meeting Q in the afterlife.

Finally catching up to this episode.  IMO, an appearance by DJ-P0N3 makes it all worth it.  :D

ravenlore: So are the same folks trolling the Pony threads trolling the Doctor Who threads?

I haven't been paying attention.

The wrestling threads too. Don't forget them.

Strolpol: you've got an adventure series like Ducktales, where you can use the protagonists' resources to justify crazy adventures outside the home town.

I think that's more what Lauren Faust had in mind at the beginning, too: adventure episodes to go with the 'slice of life' ones, like the the season premiers and finales. I wonder if there are any backburner episodes hanging around that this would allow them to use, especially for the season 4 premier.

ArkPanda:
It seemed obvious to me that Luna's book was the spellbook Twilight was sent to finish.



I knew I forgot something this afternoon!

Skyfrog: Alicorn Day

I LOL'd. "Drink this and tell me what you learned..."



Princessin' ain't easy.

Great Porn Dragon: I also don't get the butthurt, because the whole damn show has been basically the progress of Twilight Sparkle through Equestrian College. :D

(Yes, seriously.  She got sent on her field study on friendship, basically earned her bachelorate in getting Princess Luna out of her Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds period; earned her Master's in dealing with Discord and Salombra; and pretty much all of her field work has been in study for what is the equivalent of a Doctorate (in that we now know that alicorn-age is apparently earned via original research in new magic, which is pretty much directly analgous to how folks earn their Ph.Ds in the human world).  Pretty much anyone who's been in college or has known someone in college beyond the Bachelorate level has known where this is going, and no, learning does NOT end when you earn a doctorate, as any MD or DO who engages in Continuing Medical Education on a yearly basis can tell you. :D)

Yes, this means that pretty much "Princess" in Equestria is equivalent to "Doctor" here, and there's probably more than a bit of Philosopher-Princess involved (someone did point out the similarity to Greek ideas of destinies of men, it's a pretty old concept really).  I, at least, find this a neat concept :D

So I say, "Congrats to the new Princess Twilight Sparkle...or if you will, Doctor Twilight Sparkle, DMSS (Doctor of Magical and Social Studies)." Because it's pretty much the same, and no, the series is not RUINED FOREVER because Pr. Twilight Sparkle has a title and wings (no more so than learning is over when one earns a doctorate--if anything, the real learning just begins then). :D

/then again, I've been pretty much seeing the show all along as Twilight Sparkle's Journey Through Pony Graduate School :D
//of course, this also leads to the question of whether ponies in fact get tenure

Dinobot: Nezu Chiza: 'm not sure that logic really follows since you can clearly become an Alicorn when you weren't born one. If any race can become an Alicorn, then Alicorn's are all races, not a separate one.

However, they make it seem that you need to be a Unicorn, as its based on Magic. Pegasi and earth ponies cannot do magic, therefore are automatically excluded from transcending.

Not necessarily. It was all the elements of harmony that triggered the... whatever. I'm sure if anyone else mastered the elements to the point Twi did, they would stand a decent chance of being uplifted, too. The fact that the spell going wrong and her correction led her to realize the whole friendship Destiny thing may not be material.

Yuri Futanari: This question has probably been answered, but is there a Season 4 confirmed or was this it as far as we know?

The head writer confirmed it on her twitter.

Speaking of research... Derpy was everywhere.

Bridge derpy at 0:23.


Wet mane derp at 6:22.


And one more Derpy at 20:30.

Great Porn Dragon:
/then again, I've been pretty much seeing the show all along as Twilight Sparkle's Journey Through Pony Graduate School :D
//of course, this also leads to the question of whether ponies in fact get tenure

This. That alicorns are few and far between, and the description of "new magic" as a particularly remarkable event, suggests that perhaps magic's a well-explored field, subject to occasional incremental improvement, but most of the work consists of improving one's skills at using existing tech. If most knowledge is siloed, cross-pollination of ideas is going to be rare, and most dissertations are going to be boring until you find someone willing to draw from other fields.

And as for tenure, isn't that just a more polite word for immortality?

shortymac: Also, the fact that her brother MARRIED into Royalty but Twilight became a princess of her own merit makes the feminist in me smile.

Way to turn the tables on girly show tropes! :]

Season 4 has possibilities here, too. Hasbro's content to stick with the princess stereotype in the toy stores, but what if the theme of S4 is an amplification of last week's theme, namely that leadership is damn hard work?

shortymac: MadCat221: Why was this season short?  Was it to make the syndication threshold point a nice clean season-end break?

For syndication you need 65 episodes, which I'm not sure is an actual rule or simply the most profitable number of episodes for syndication. Which is why season 3 was only 13 episodes.

65 episodes is the minimum number needed to air one episode every weekday for 13 weeks, so you can get 4 airings of an entire run into one year.

The series remains fresh that way, and in the days before VCRs and DVRs and DVDpeople would keep watching each rerun cycle because by the time the run started over, they would happily watch the cycle again because they last saw it 3 months ago and it seemed new enough.

Yuri Futanari: This question has probably been answered, but is there a Season 4 confirmed or was this it as far as we know?

DHX documents list them as being paid to produce a fourth season, Daniel Ingram's website shows him as working on 91 MLP episodes.

65+26=91.

So, full season 4.

/probably as official an announcement as there will be until episodes are ready.

MadCat221: Why was this season short?  Was it to make the syndication threshold point a nice clean season-end break?

For syndication you need 65 episodes, which I'm not sure is an actual rule or simply the most profitable number of episodes for syndication. Which is why season 3 was only 13 episodes.

Hasbro thought it was going to be bought by Disney, so they wanted to end the series. Alicorn Twilight was always the endgame, hence why this episode had her ascending to "Princesshood".

However, Hasbro was NOT bought by Disney, Lucasfilms was, AND I think upper-management at Hasbro noticed how numerous [and profitable] the Brony community is when John Lancie's "Bronies" documentary came out. Since the documentary came out they sent out cease and desist letters to Fighting is Magic Game and the "Friendship is Witchcraft" parody series on Youtube. They're locking down the IP.

MadCat221: Why was this season short?  Was it to make the syndication threshold point a nice clean season-end break?

The rumor mill says MLP was originally planned to end after this episode. 65 episodes were over, they could have ended it and reran 'em until G5 since 65 is the usual number needed for animated shows in syndication. Plus, there was talk about Disney buying Hasbro.

But, Disney bought George Lucas instead, and Ponies got another full season scheduled. But the condensed 13 episode season was still there to be burned off, with an ending that really feels like AN ENDING.


/if Disney did buy Hasbro, at least Marvel could finally reprint the old ROM series.

FirstNationalBastard:
/No Derpy until the final two minutes of the season and no Rarity episode... how could S3 be that good?

Derpy made a few appearances in season 3. (In the grandstands at the magic duel, and a few shots from behind elsewhere in the season.)



She was in Ponyville all along today, we just didn't believe it was her at 00:51.



She was also at Toy Fair 2013. Derpy lives.

dorkymidgetqueen: Completely concur with everything Dinobot said. I wanted to like it. I was elated at first when I found out MUSICAL EPISODE OMG!! But the conflict resolved way too fast, and the rest of the ep was just fluffy and substance-less, and Twi's transcendence scene was just weird. I hope the series didn't jump the shark, I hope it was just a bad day. But Derpy couldn't save this one for me. Even Pinkie being especially hilarious couldn't save it for me.

/girl-brony
//don't you dare call me a pegasis

Unlike many of the Scootaloo Little fanboys, I say don't worry about shark jumping until after the first few episodes of S4.

It's obvious this was meant to be the end of the show. It's also quite likely that the season was 26 episodes squished down into 13, with this episode definitely being a two-parter condensed into 22 minutes.

After how good season 2 was, I can forgive how meh the shortened S3 was. The full, 26 episode as planned S4 will answer whether the show has gone to shiat or not.

/No Derpy until the final two minutes of the season and no Rarity episode... how could S3 be that good?

TV's Vinnie: [i50.tinypic.com image 606x342]

Meanwhile, in Russia, Rainbow Dash shows off her sonic rainboom skills...

Dinobot: Captain Steroid: the total opposite of the clusterf**k everpony had been fearing.

I dunno, I hated the 2nd half of the episode...

Spoken like someone who didn't find Derpy. :P

Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Wow.

This episode, and I can't stress this enough... did NOT suck. It was emotional, moving, interesting; the total opposite of the clusterf**k everpony had been fearing.

And Twilight Farkle found DERPY!!! XD

If someone had told me a couple of years ago that I'd be a fan of "My Little Pony", I'd have kicked their ass for slander, and checked the corpse for drugs. Now?



I can't wait for Season 4. ^_^

Twilight Farkle: FirstNationalBastard: DERPY!!!!!!

/right before the ending musical number, hidden way, way waaaaaay in the background of the wide shot, with her Derpy eyes and all.

...and again right after the chariot zooms past everyone, before the shot cuts back to the front marching view.

I knew I missed something else important!

[i.imgur.com image 850x478]

19:49 - She even winks at us. No, not the purple one, the important one!

[i.imgur.com image 850x478]

20:18 - and if we really wanna go down the overanalysis route, after the Doctor was seen with somepony else in the theater scene during the "Babs Seed" song in S03E04, with Cherry Berry in the background watching the movie alone, we've even resolved that little discrepancy.

Welcome back, Derpy. Best. Mailmare. Ever.

OMG YES YES YES .. I has all the happies. Had to go back and watch to verify. Thats no animation glitch.. ITS DERPY!

FirstNationalBastard: DERPY!!!!!!

/right before the ending musical number, hidden way, way waaaaaay in the background of the wide shot, with her Derpy eyes and all.

...and again right after the chariot zooms past everyone, before the shot cuts back to the front marching view.

I knew I missed something else important!



19:49 - She even winks at us. No, not the purple one, the important one!



20:18 - and if we really wanna go down the overanalysis route, after the Doctor was seen with somepony else in the theater scene during the "Babs Seed" song in S03E04, with Cherry Berry in the background watching the movie alone, we've even resolved that little discrepancy.

Welcome back, Derpy. Best. Mailmare. Ever.

HOLY CRAP!

Why can't I can't hold all these feels about a silly kids show!?

/Liquid pride is everywhere on my keyboard.
//Yesterday, that would have sounded so dirty to me.

Alicorn party!

On second thought, let's stay here in Canterlot. It is a silly place.

ravenlore: FirstNationalBastard: ravenlore: ZMugg: ravenlore: OK, that felt very rushed.

Should have been a two-part episode, at least.

I agree.

One of the writers said on Twitter that they consider this part one of a three-parter.

Then it should have been a four-parter.  This ep just moved in a very forced, awkward, hurried way.

Yeah... It was supposed to end the series and get the "65" episodes Hasbro needed to put MLP into syndication.

Thank god Hasbro wasn't bought by Disney and I think upper-management finally realizes the value of this show beyond selling toys and "creepy guys" [stereotype, not reality of bronies].

ravenlore: ZMugg: ravenlore: OK, that felt very rushed.

Should have been a two-part episode, at least.

I agree.

One of the writers said on Twitter that they consider this part one of a three-parter.

ZMugg: ...the luckiest pony in all Equestria?

Twilight Sparkle has ALS???

In Equestria, they call it Twilight Sparkle's Disease.

WOW okay now I can tell this was supposed to end the series, not just the season. I'm happy we're getting more episodes. I was fearing way worse.

Did anyone else notice star baby twilight a la 2001: A Space Odyssey?

I also loved that they had the Audible commercial with 50 shades of grey.

I'm a happy brony

...liquid pride?

Wait, how does Rarity know what America is?

/Coronation time! Fanboy meltdown in T-Minus 9 minutes.

It's GO TIME!

The kiddies may not like it, but a last second run-in to spoil the Princess transformation would be a great heel move.  Especially if done by

ravenlore: I suppose I should hit EqD for a stream huh?
(I usually catch it a bit later on YT, but if I do that today I'll go loco in the coco)

Eeyup.



/clock is ticking
//popcorn is popping

Mid_mo_mad_man: Maybe with the season ending you bronies can become real men. Leave your mom's basement and live life. Who knows there might be a lady willing to talk to you.

HUG! I'm gonna love and tolerate the shiat outta you.

You have a tough facade but are a scared little boy inside.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Maybe they're giving Twilight an upgrade a bit early, but wasn't the entire point of her being Celestia's personal student and taking on these challenges to eventually "upgrade" her in ability and/or title?

The rumor mill says this was supposed to be the final season, which makes sense since they only gave it 13 episodes to being it up to the magic #65. So, the end of the show would have been Princess Twilight.

But, since Hasbro didn't sell out to Disney, MLP gets a full season 4, and if Princess Twilight is how the season ends, apparently things were far enough along for Princess Twilight to remain in the show.

/Hey, crossdressing Big Mac!

Maybe they're giving Twilight an upgrade a bit early, but wasn't the entire point of her being Celestia's personal student and taking on these challenges to eventually "upgrade" her in ability and/or title?

OtherLittleGuy: So when is "Community" going to do a MLP episode? Or is that dividing by zero?

Might be the other way around if the rumors about this this spinoff series turn out to be true.

Theeng: Millennium: I don't know what the fuss is about. I don't even watch the show, but it's been clear to me that this has been planned from the beginning.

You've got two princesses -Celestia and Luna- who keep getting associated with dualities: light and darkness, friendship and loneliness, and perhaps most importantly, day and night. Then the main character turns up, having been personally trained by one of these princesses and somehow linked to the other, carrying some "greater destiny," and her name is Twilight Sparkle.

How was this development not obvious? I haven't even seen the series, and this was clearly going to happen from the moment I heard of these three characters. Yes, I suppose it reads like a Mary Sue fanfic, and I expect to hear that this is the direction it goes, but why are fans only getting worked up over it now?

Mostly because it was a marketing decision as to why it's happening now.  I think that's why most people got angry, as Hasbro has started putting an increasing amount of attention on the show.

My reaction has honestly been to get the popcorn, and have a good laugh at all the people going bonkers over this.

Plus, and let's be honest... like any group of hardcore fanboys, the Bronies feel that the show is theirs, and any changes, especially ones made by corporate, are evil and will suck.

You see the same kind of reaction whenever something happens in, say comic books. Small group of vocal fans, they go apeshiat when something different happens, even though they always claim to want something besides the same old same old.

LowbrowDeluxe: ravenlore: FirstNationalBastard: Counter_Intelligent: Last episode of the season.  Send in the haters clowns.

Hey, S4 is supposed to be a full 26 episodes.

/hopefully 26 that turn out better than the 13 made for S3.

no doubt.

Multiple folks in multiple places have made similar statements, and I'm inclined to agree:

I'd like to trust the writers, but I sure as hell don't trust the Marketing Department.

Eh, S3 has been hit or miss, but I'll give it a solid passing grade.

It's had some great moments, but overall, it's been kind of meh.

I mean, G3 Pinkie, WHY DOES LIFE HAVE TO BE SO IRONIC?, the Trixie episode... but otherwise, things have just been trudging along.

/it's the Derpy theory, I tells ya. Less Derpy = Lesser episodes.

Counter_Intelligent: Last episode of the season.  Send in the haters clowns.

Hey, S4 is supposed to be a full 26 episodes.

/hopefully 26 that turn out better than the 13 made for S3.

/Luna must have been hanging out with Derpy when this Royal photoshoot was going on.
//have to wonder if this is just a really good photoshop by someone looking to troll the easily riled fanboys, though.