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		Tebow bill sacked (reston.patch.com)		100
		More: Obvious, Tim Tebow, Virginia, United States Senate committees, extracurricular activities

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11873 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2013 at 11:05 AM | Favorite | share:

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The Irresponsible Captain		2013-02-16 12:10:25 PM

If you don't want to participate in society, you don't get to pick and choose. Society does.

mizchief		2013-02-16 12:11:09 PM

Banning home schoolers from playing in public schools sports is fine with me as long as the parents are made exempt from the state and local taxes and receive the federal voucher equal in what the feds spend per-child in that district. Neither side can have it both ways, if you pay you can play, otherwise you can foot the bill to start your own home school league.

mizchief		2013-02-16 12:13:01 PM

Satanic_Hamster: If they want their kids to have social interactions, let them go to farking school.

The problem is public school isn't effective enough, and private school is too expensive for most parents. Why not try to find a happy medium?

INeedAName		2013-02-16 12:13:04 PM

occamswrist		2013-02-16 12:13:25 PM

YonderScott		2013-02-16 12:15:31 PM

I played football in high school, my running backs coach was also my biology teacher. He was great at both, he played college ball and got a masters. I would like to know why you would think it's a good idea to let someone teach your kid to run, jump and throw a damn ball, but not let them teach little Johnny something you have no farking clue about?

advex101		2013-02-16 12:18:06 PM

ZeroCorpse: I'll go one further.

Let's remove all the competitive sports from our public schools and relegate them to special schools where all they do is sports and other athletic activities. No academics whatsoever-- Just sports.

We take the kids who are going to public school just to aim for a sports scholarship, and we stick them in the sports school, where they can play football, wrestle, cheer, or play other sports without all that messy learning to get in their way. They can put 100% of their efforts toward getting that scholarship to a sports college where they can be scouted and eventually make some sort of career out of their sports focus.

This has the added effect of getting all the stupid jocks out of the regular schools so that they aren't distracting students who actually want to learn something. It stops public schools from being tempted to pass total idiots through the system just because they're on the sports teams. It cuts down on bullying, I'm sure, because the jocks tend to also be the bullies. It cuts down on date-rape in the public schools, since-- again-- the jocks tend to be the ones who do this sort of thing (oh, come on. You know it's true.)

We get the disruptive jocks out of the academic system and get to focus on education, while the jocks get the benefit of not being bothered by having to learn anything that doesn't pertain to their sports of choice. Why should a guy whose sole career goal is playing football be concerned with algebra or creative writing? Even if he ends up as a sports announcer or sports radio DJ, he'll have the necessary skills for his audience without that academic stuff getting in the way of his game.

Public schools could actually spend some money on other extracurricular activities, instead of funneling every extra dollar into the sports programs. The other kids would get decent programs for a change.

I remember when I was in high school, the school board actually voted two years in a row for the music boosters to divert ...

So, I'm thinking that you didn't make the team and the jocks made fun of you in the locker room. Welcome to Lambda Lambda Lambda.

Sail The Wide Accountancy		2013-02-16 12:23:01 PM

Christ. Who the fark cares if home school kids play sports? We had some home school kids on our track team. Do you know how much it costs to put a kid on the track team? fark all. Why is everyone so against this? I really thought Fark would be the ones to were supportive of children playing games. It's not the kid's fault their parents don't want them in public school.

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men		2013-02-16 12:23:51 PM

More issues:

There are limited spots on sports teams. Why should a student at a school, who is part of the school community, be bumped from a team or benched so that someone from outside the school can play instead.

How does it work at awards times? "Let's all congratulate our basketball team for a great season. And winning the county championship. We all know the team and are happy for their success. Well - not many of you know know Bob, who you won't have seen in classes because his parents dislike the school so much that they go to a lot of effort to avoid sending him here but apparently out basketball team is worthy of Bob, so congratulate Bob too, even though none of you know him.

Tyee		2013-02-16 12:24:45 PM

these kids are members of the community in which the school resides and their families pay taxes to support that school, the extra curricular activities within that school and athletics. So VA you're forcing families to pay full price and all they are asking for in return is a small portion of what the state government has offered back.

Arcanra		2013-02-16 12:42:52 PM

I live in Henrico County, in Virginia, and my daughter plays varsity sports for her school. The district just passed a measure that all varsity players must maintain a 2.0 gpa, so my only gripe would be that the homeschooled kids would have to a) play for the school that their home falls in the district of and b) they must follow the same standards for the kids in school to play sports. Also, no whining that the kids are typical teens in a school enviroment when they are giving you wedgies and hazing you.

udhq		2013-02-16 12:45:11 PM

IMO, rule #1 should be that private schools should not be allowed to compete against public schools on any level, given that private schools are free to recruit and offer scholarships to talented students regardless of the geographic boundaries of public school districts.
There are some states whose competitive sports and activities are unfairly dominated by wealthy private schools for this very reason. The private schools should have their own, separate competitive leagues.

And home-schoolers should have every right to try out for activities within these private school leagues, but public school leagues should be for public school students.

wedun		2013-02-16 12:45:48 PM

dv-ous: OTOH, they're usually homeschooled for reasons like OMG TEH RELIJUNZ, which makes me want to deprive them of as many things as we possibly can.

Why are you punishing the child? the kid didn't have any choice.

Arctic Phoenix		2013-02-16 12:46:01 PM

Lil' Max Meatboots: Who'stheBossisNotaFood: As an atheist who intends on homeschooling next year, I am getting a big kick out of these replies... There are many other reasons to homeschool besides religion. As a former teacher, I plan on homeschooling because the schools in my town are failing and I know that school is mostly a waste of time. That doesn't mean I am going to keep my kids locked in the house however. My one daughter has already gone to swimming and gymnastics classes and she currently attends a private preschool.

If these kids want to be on the team, why shouldn't they be allowed to try out?

As was mentioned earlier, I attended public school, I failed a class my first semester my senior year over attendance. As a result I was not allowed to run track in the spring. Sooooo...why should your kid be allowed to try out? How can you prove he passed YOUR first semester? If you want your damn kids on the team, let them go to that school.

In MANY states, you have to have a record book that shows the scores your child received in each class, including test papers, assignments, etc. In addition to that, home-schooled kids in many states have to take the same yearly tests as other students.

I'm inclined to be of the opinion that home-schooled kids should be allowed to participate in public school after-school activities, since the families of homeschooling parents typically DO pay taxes.. and, since these are activities by the PUBLIC school, it's irrelevant whether the kid is enrolled in that school. Caveat: I also think that, if you do home school, you should have to be registered with the public school system in order to get access to these public school amenities.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man...

Ringo48		2013-02-16 12:49:47 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: This is such horseshiat. You don't want your kids in public school, fine, keep them out of public school. Good job, VA.

How about we let them not pay for public school, too, then?

wedun		2013-02-16 12:53:05 PM

Ringo48: How about we let them not pay for public school, too, then?

there are states out there that don't have a public school system. maybe they should just move to Louisiana. Then they wouldn't have to worry about their tax dollars going to things they disagree with, like teaching kids evolution.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost		2013-02-16 12:56:54 PM

Dear Liberal members of Fark. Consider for a moment that not all home-schooled kids are being held hostage by religious parents. Many parents find public schools to be lacking in the ability to properly educate their children. It seems lately teachers are spending far too much time trying to get into their students pants, or under their skirts, to have enough time left over to actually teach the other kids.
While private school is always an option, many people do not have the financial means to afford a private school. Those parents may opt for home schooling instead. As long as the child is being taught properly, and it seems that most home schooled kids are, then I just don't understand why there is such an intolerance by the mostly liberal crowd when home schooling is chosen.
Is this the tolerance that is taught in public schools today? No wonder parents are looking to other options.

/Went to public school, but enough years ago when things were a bit more civilized.
//Also know parents that are home schooling, and are not particularly religious.

Fuggin Bizzy		2013-02-16 01:00:27 PM

Talondel: Fuggin Bizzy: Ow! That was my feelings!: If the family pays property taxes in the district they seek to play in, their kids should be allowed to play. Paying any associated fees, of course. The opposition to this smacks of a general anti-homeschooling bias.

helpwerebeingoppressed.jpg

Yes, because if there's anything that can be learned from this thread, it's that there certainly is not any bias against people who home school. Nope, not a bit.

Thank you. I'm glad we're in agreement on that point.

udhq		2013-02-16 01:10:59 PM

Arctic Phoenix: In MANY states, you have to have a record book that shows the scores your child received in each class, including test papers, assignments, etc. In addition to that, home-schooled kids in many states have to take the same yearly tests as other students.

I'm inclined to be of the opinion that home-schooled kids should be allowed to participate in public school after-school activities, since the families of homeschooling parents typically DO pay taxes.. and, since these are activities by the PUBLIC school, it's irrelevant whether the kid is enrolled in that school. Caveat: I also think that, if you do home school, you should have to be registered with the public school system in order to get access to these public school amenities.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man...

I don't think academic academic eligibility can be fairly determined by a student's own parent.

And, the fact that the school is public doesn't mean it's amenities are or should be open to everyone. Enrollment is not at all irrelevant, it's basically everything. As a taxpaying citizen I can't use the libraries, gyms or swimming pools of public schools, because those things are built exclusively for enrolled students. Similarly, if I'm a public school student visiting a neighboring town, I don't have a right to access the amenities of that town's public schools.

udhq		2013-02-16 01:16:08 PM

Ringo48: Fuggin Bizzy: This is such horseshiat. You don't want your kids in public school, fine, keep them out of public school. Good job, VA.

How about we let them not pay for public school, too, then?

I'm cool with this, so long as they agree not to participate in an economy built by the world's most productive workforce as trained by America's public education system.

STRYPERSWINE		2013-02-16 01:27:03 PM

StoPPeRmobile		2013-02-16 01:35:56 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: More issues:

There are limited spots on sports teams. Why should a student at a school, who is part of the school community, be bumped from a team or benched so that someone from outside the school can play instead.

How does it work at awards times? "Let's all congratulate our basketball team for a great season. And winning the county championship. We all know the team and are happy for their success. Well - not many of you know know Bob, who you won't have seen in classes because his parents dislike the school so much that they go to a lot of effort to avoid sending him here but apparently out basketball team is worthy of Bob, so congratulate Bob too, even though none of you know him.

I know right? Those kids can go fark off. They should have been born somewhere else if the really cared.

The nerve of some people.

lohphat		2013-02-16 01:49:18 PM

EkimProx: img.imageResizerActiveClass{cursor:nw-resize !important;outline:1px dashed black !important;} img.imageResizerChangedClass{z-index:300 !important;max-width:none !important;max-height:none !important;} img.imageResizerBoxClass{margin:auto; z-index:99999 !important; position:fixed; top:0; left:0; right:0; bottom:0; border:1px solid white; outline:1px solid black;}That bill didn't have a prayer.

I see you haven't gotten over the new editor yet.

Mega Steve		2013-02-16 01:52:34 PM

advex101: Mega Steve: dv-ous: OTOH, they're usually homeschooled for reasons like OMG TEH RELIJUNZ, which makes me want to deprive them of as many things as we possibly can.

In my area, most parents of homeschooled kids are MORE educated than our local teachers. I live in the Bible belt, so take from that what you will

Please don't confuse level of education with lack of ideology. They could all be PhD's and still be narrow minded racist a-holes, or not.

Let me give you a little more detail. I used to work at the local stage theater, and most of the young people in our shows were homeschooled. They were a little socially awkward, but were smarter than most of the adults I've known around here. None of them appeared to be crazy cultists, nor did their parents.

On the opposite side of the equation, I went through the public high school here. When I graduated, there was roughly a 75% dropout rate (which was celebrated as an all time low). The school "therapist" had no education in any science, but he DID have a doctorate in Theology.

lohphat		2013-02-16 01:52:52 PM

Ringo48: Fuggin Bizzy: This is such horseshiat. You don't want your kids in public school, fine, keep them out of public school. Good job, VA.

How about we let them not pay for public school, too, then?

I don't have kids so am I exempt too?

Hint: Taxes are not about you snowflake, they are to fund shared infrastructure and institutions we all benefit from as a society.

Funny how all most of today's workers were educated by tax dollars so that we'd all benefit vs. education only available to those who could directly pay.

PsyLord		2013-02-16 02:02:25 PM

Wow, how has the tide changed. Before when you stick the name Tebow to something, it was like manna from the heavens. Now, it's the kiss of death.

Bit'O'Gristle		2013-02-16 02:04:34 PM

Nice try, but can't have it both ways biatches. You want to home school your children? Fine. You think you can teach them better than the college trained personnel at the school? More power to you. But don't expect them to allow your kids in for the fun stuff as you have disconnected them from the system.

Persnickety		2013-02-16 02:20:19 PM

mizchief: Banning home schoolers from playing in public schools sports is fine with me as long as the parents are made exempt from the state and local taxes and receive the federal voucher equal in what the feds spend per-child in that district. Neither side can have it both ways, if you pay you can play, otherwise you can foot the bill to start your own home school league.

So when do I get my tax discount for the war in Iraq to protect the interests of the oil industry? Or maintenance for roads I never drive on or police and fire I never call?

More and more I am convinced that conservatives were never taught basic civics. School taxes are not tuition. Never have been. We as an entire country benefit from an educated populace. Thomas Jefferson, who hated taxes and gov't even more than today's Tea Baggers, wrote passionately on the subject. The only thing that keeps democracy from devolving into mob rule is an educated population that has the critical thinking skills to govern wisely. Again, we ALL benefit from this so, yes, we should all pay for it.

PCFX		2013-02-16 02:22:18 PM

Who'stheBossisNotaFood: As an atheist who intends on homeschooling next year, I am getting a big kick out of these replies... There are many other reasons to homeschool besides religion. As a former teacher, I plan on homeschooling because the schools in my town are failing and I know that school is mostly a waste of time. That doesn't mean I am going to keep my kids locked in the house however. My one daughter has already gone to swimming and gymnastics classes and she currently attends a private preschool.

If these kids want to be on the team, why shouldn't they be allowed to try out?

Fellow atheist home-schooler here with a 2nd grader and Kindergartner. While my wife's Catholic, we both agree that our kids are getting taught real science, not mythology that belongs in a religious study class. And yeah, my kids get plenty of socialization with people of all ages and backgrounds. And to brag a little, we often get compliments on our childrens' behavior and demeanor.

Not all home schooling parents are religious nutjobs.

coffee fiend		2013-02-16 02:23:56 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: This is such horseshiat. You don't want your kids in public school, fine, keep them out of public school. Good job, VA.

I've been surprised at some of the recent developments coming out of our state legislature. It seems, at least for the time being, that the Repubs are actually aware of public sentiment and/or possible reprocussions as a result of their actions. It won't last, though.

ZodiacMan		2013-02-16 02:32:49 PM

I would think the privilege of playing scholastic sports would involve some kind of commitment to the school for whom you are playing... at the very least attending said school. These parents don't want little junior learning that the earth is older than 6,000 years or have to associate with all the brown skinned kids who go there, but they for some reason think little junior has a right to play for the schools whose values they rejected. I say the hell with them. If they want to form a team of home schooled kids then I say fine. The "Mommy-Daddy High School Fighting Sheltered Kids" can take the field wearing uniforms their grandmas stitched together, then coach Daddy can wipe their noses after every play while assistant coach Mommy bakes them cookies and reads the Bible to them at half time.

lohphat		2013-02-16 02:38:34 PM

PCFX: Who'stheBossisNotaFood: As an atheist who intends on homeschooling next year, I am getting a big kick out of these replies... There are many other reasons to homeschool besides religion. As a former teacher, I plan on homeschooling because the schools in my town are failing and I know that school is mostly a waste of time. That doesn't mean I am going to keep my kids locked in the house however. My one daughter has already gone to swimming and gymnastics classes and she currently attends a private preschool.

If these kids want to be on the team, why shouldn't they be allowed to try out?

Fellow atheist home-schooler here with a 2nd grader and Kindergartner. While my wife's Catholic, we both agree that our kids are getting taught real science, not mythology that belongs in a religious study class. And yeah, my kids get plenty of socialization with people of all ages and backgrounds. And to brag a little, we often get compliments on our childrens' behavior and demeanor.

Not all home schooling parents are religious nutjobs.

...and they will be eaten alive when they try to join the unsheltered workforce and work for sociopaths unable to navigate office and interpersonal politics.

Funbags		2013-02-16 03:07:38 PM

Derwood: The home school families are still paying school taxes, so why not let them participate?

This argument might have merit, if those families HADN'T chose to prevent their children from enrolling in any public schools.

Simply put, the kids on the "Evergreen High" football team are students of Evergreen High, and are representing their school, their alumni, etc.

Homeschooled kids do not. As the 1st commenter on subby's link stated, let the homeschooled kids form their own teams, if they are so inclined. They win all the spelling bees, I'm sure it will translate to athletics.

Bigger Leftist Intarweb Schlong		2013-02-16 03:14:15 PM

Thank fark, the last thing schools need is a bunch of helicopter parented Jesus freaks invading it and trying to steal spots on the teams away from the kids who actually go to school there.

Arcanra		2013-02-16 03:30:16 PM

Of course due to budget shortfalls, Hanover county is instituting a pay for play for high school sports, citing a lack of funds, so I am sure they'd love to add homeschoolers to their ranks to help swell the coffers.

BarkingUnicorn		2013-02-16 03:33:50 PM

Glancing Blow: I'm glad to see that once-again the GOP is protecting states-rights and smaller government and less federal intrusion in local matters.

It's the libs. They don't want public school parents comparing their zombified brats to home-schooled students.

BarkingUnicorn		2013-02-16 03:39:41 PM

mizchief: Satanic_Hamster: If they want their kids to have social interactions, let them go to farking school.

The problem is public school isn't effective enough, and private school is too expensive for most parents. Why not try to find a happy medium?

The county hospital ain't good enough and we can't afford the Mayo Clinic so let's lay Junior out on the kitchen table and remove his appendix ourselves.

/A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
//A waste is a terrible thing to mind.

Persnickety		2013-02-16 03:45:50 PM

PCFX: Who'stheBossisNotaFood: As an atheist who intends on homeschooling next year, I am getting a big kick out of these replies... There are many other reasons to homeschool besides religion. As a former teacher, I plan on homeschooling because the schools in my town are failing and I know that school is mostly a waste of time. That doesn't mean I am going to keep my kids locked in the house however. My one daughter has already gone to swimming and gymnastics classes and she currently attends a private preschool.

If these kids want to be on the team, why shouldn't they be allowed to try out?

Fellow atheist home-schooler here with a 2nd grader and Kindergartner. While my wife's Catholic, we both agree that our kids are getting taught real science, not mythology that belongs in a religious study class. And yeah, my kids get plenty of socialization with people of all ages and backgrounds. And to brag a little, we often get compliments on our childrens' behavior and demeanor.

Not all home schooling parents are religious nutjobs.

It's much easier to socialize young children like yours. Once they reach middle school age however, kids tend to form cliques and start excluding one another. This behavior continues through to high school and beyond. Your desire to exclude yourself from the public school scene may well be rooted in this very common human behavior. Kids with strong personalities can survive this but kids who are too well behaved often lack the assertiveness.

/just sayin'

wedun		2013-02-16 03:49:16 PM

You have to understand that Virginia has some of the best public schools in the country. So the folks who are homeschooling their kids are all disproportionately bible thumping fundamentalists who hate evolution and sex education.

Lee451		2013-02-16 04:11:37 PM

So basically, on one hand you want them to socialize with others to become better members of society.

This is the biggest strawman argument I have seen concerning home schoolers. The home schooled kids do NOT grow up in a vacuum. They tend to attend church, socialize with their neighbors and join activities outside of the home (Little League sports, etc). They are not exposed to: Peer pressure to conform, listen to music/tv their parents consider unacceptable and other influences considered bad. They tend to be more intelligent, more polite and more mature then the average public school kid.
Non believers like to harp on how ignorant/unaccepting Christians are but I see much ignorance in these threads from them. Replacxe the word "homeschooled" or "Christian" with "gay" or "black" and see how your arguments sound

/Have known a lot of home schooled children
//How many have you known?
///Please return to your prejudice and hatred now.

STRYPERSWINE		2013-02-16 04:14:09 PM

Are they paying the taxes? If so, let them play.

megarian		2013-02-16 04:22:02 PM

Allen. The end.: I work with kids. The home-school kids are certainly more educated, in the sense of book-learning. However, they are SO very incapable of socialization, they might as well be engineers. It's actually kinda spooky. I don't however, want to build a "sports" school, since all of the guys are going to wind up being sociopaths of a different order...like the NFL, NBA, etc.

An anecdote: An acquaintance of mine once ran the carnival business in the lower SE. He also ran the midget wrestling league. He kept them in their trailer. "Ya caint let em out", he said, "cuz they just go to a bar, git drunk, and gang up on somebody. What you do is open the trailer door, throw in some Veeny Weenies, and let em eat. Otherwise you got a mess on your hands, and no show!"

True.

Tehehehe

*clicks profile*

I like you.

Zoomaster		2013-02-16 05:31:12 PM

Derwood: The home school families are still paying school taxes, so why not let them participate?

Seems petty

==============

Most schools are given a certain amount per student on a specific day of attendance. If the student does not attend the school but insists on playing sports or doing other extra activities, the school does lose money. Even though the home owner is paying property tax, a part of which goes to the school, by losing their attendance the school does lose income to run the school and the school programs: sports, music, etc.

/In our school district, even if you do attend the school, you still have to pay to play, to help offset the cost

//the more kids you have, in more activities, it does get quite expensive for your kids to participate

Zoomaster		2013-02-16 05:40:35 PM

sjtroxel		2013-02-16 06:36:34 PM

dv-ous: WhoopAssWayne: Yet homeschooling parents in Virginia will be taxed just like anyone else. Seems fair.

And then get tax deductions for homeschool expenses.

Nobody ever talks about that...

They don't talk about them because they don't get them. We homeschooled our daughter up through 8th grade (not for religious reasons) and not one penny that we spent on anything related to homeschooling was deductible. Those textbooks, cirricula, and standardized tests that we had to pay for all came right out of Dad's pocket, as did the gas to ferry her to her swimming lessons, music lessons, soccer practice, Girl Scouts, and the local Humane Society (she volunteered there) all so my precious snowflake could get her required dose of socialization and not turn into a hermit like her old man wants to be. Now that she's in public high school (and doing quite well, thank you) we still have to pay for books, along with gym uniforms, activity fees, and assorted other things that come up during the year. At least we don't have to pay the teachers and the lunch lady directly out of our pocket.

ensign_noname		2013-02-16 10:15:59 PM

Why are they naming a bill after Tebow in Virgin....

Carry on

chandler_vt		2013-02-17 10:08:32 AM

mizchief: Banning home schoolers from playing in public schools sports is fine with me as long as the parents are made exempt from the state and local taxes and receive the federal voucher equal in what the feds spend per-child in that district. Neither side can have it both ways, if you pay you can play, otherwise you can foot the bill to start your own home school league.

By that logic people with no kids should not pay school taxes too. Taxes support the system and it needs to be there should you change your mind and send kids to school tomorrow (or in my case have kids in future). Other option is instead of taxes make it tuition but that penalizes poor people more than middle class or rich. Being part of school team is simple. Be part of school first.