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(Phys Org2)   Higher education isn't for everyone, Cletus   (phys.org) divider line 41
    More: Obvious, higher educations, income families, variable costs, throw in, U.S. Department of Education  
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13163 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Feb 2013 at 12:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-02-15 12:47:43 PM
11 votes:

ajgeek: UberDave: Many students learn over the course of their studies that college is not a good match for them academically...

...So they go on to major in Business.

/Runs from thread.

Or English, Liberal Arts, and for the ladies, Women's Studies.

/stands defiantly.



If we don't support those degrees, how can I expect my coffee to be served with an unordered side of smug superiority and condescension?  Who will explain to me the power dynamic artificially represented by the tip jar is really just an extension of the philosophies behind Vaclav Havel's greatest works, and like all true absurdist situations, reflecting the opposite of reality to indicate that I, the advanced math degree consumer, am truly the powerless one, not only in the relationship between the barista and I, but in all subjective realities (as objective reality is a thought-construct of the powerless)?

Who will judge me?  I don't want it to be amateurs.
2013-02-15 12:07:03 PM
11 votes:
Many students learn over the course of their studies that college is not a good match for them academically...

...So they go on to major in Business.

/Runs from thread.
2013-02-15 12:35:55 PM
8 votes:

ajgeek: Or English, Liberal Arts, and for the ladies, Women's Studies.


"I like sleeping with girls as much as the next lesbian, but I'm not going to major in it..."
2013-02-15 01:47:30 PM
7 votes:
You can't handle the truth!

estb.msn.com

Son, we live in a world that has morons, and those morons have to be taught by men with academic credentials. Who's gonna do it? You? You, kwame? You, WhippingBoy? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for little snowflakes and you curse the tenured professor. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that dropping out of school, while tragic, probably saved money. And my entitled existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, is pretty sweet! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me behind that podium! You need me behind that podium! We use words like "peer reviewed", "vacation time", "office hours", "teaching assistants". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending my job. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very education that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a pencil, and grade a report. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think I am entitled to!
2013-02-15 12:12:11 PM
6 votes:

UberDave: Many students learn over the course of their studies that college is not a good match for them academically...

...So they go on to major in Business.

/Runs from thread.


Or English, Liberal Arts, and for the ladies, Women's Studies.

/stands defiantly.
2013-02-15 12:34:56 PM
5 votes:
i1079.photobucket.com
2013-02-15 01:36:02 PM
4 votes:

Carn: limeyfellow: mamoru: ajgeek: UberDave: Many students learn over the course of their studies that college is not a good match for them academically...

...So they go on to major in Business.

/Runs from thread.

Or English, Liberal Arts, and for the ladies, Women's Studies.

/stands defiantly.

Or psychology. That was the big one for a lot of the dolphin huggers that dropped their marine biology major after discovering that it's actually science and actually hard. ;)

Don't be silly. Biology isn't real science. Only physics and chemistry is.

Biology is chemistry, chemistry is physics, physics is math, and math is boring.

/math and computer science


Assume a spherical computer science student...
2013-02-15 12:36:15 PM
4 votes:
Obliviously college is biased as only smart people benefit.....we should require College to give out 50% of its degrees to people below average intelligence.
2013-02-15 01:57:06 PM
3 votes:

dittybopper: ne so, albeit when I was kid.   I can't think of a way that my life would be measurably worse without a computer.  I'd have to do calculations by hand.  So what?  I've got a few slide rules around, and I've built mechanical calculators out of LEGOs.   I've even got a manual typewriter:


1. No Fark (that'd kinda suck)
2. No way to verify the news you are reading without just taking the words of those on your local TV station (that would kinda suck)
3. If you were driving around late at night, and needed gas, you'd be SOL without a computer operating the debit/credit card machine on the pump.
4. Finding your friends/family/etc would be extremely expensive, so you would probably not keep track of them (Facebook, pipl, etc.)
5. Driving directions would be without a GPS (and we know how horrible driving directions from a random idiot can be).
6. No MRIs, CT scans, or medical imaging of any real use outside of X-rays.
7. Probably no oil as the computational power needed to find it wouldn't exist.
8. Most cars now have computers built into them for debugging, etc.
9. Building, bridges, and infrastructure are better designed now due to CAD.
10. Taxes by hand would be a huge pain and would probably require you to hire an accountant who knew the laws.
11. Probably the most important for those on Fark... little to no access to porn.

etc. etc. etc.

Next time you meet an IT guy... hug him, and thank him for giving you access to porn.
2013-02-15 12:48:26 PM
3 votes:
Whoa whoa whoa: so you're saying that kids with good grades don't drop out?

Thanks again, Ric Romero.
2013-02-15 12:40:53 PM
3 votes:

ajgeek: UberDave: Many students learn over the course of their studies that college is not a good match for them academically...

...So they go on to major in Business.

/Runs from thread.

Or English, Liberal Arts, and for the ladies, Women's Studies.

/stands defiantly.


Or psychology. That was the big one for a lot of the dolphin huggers that dropped their marine biology major after discovering that it's actually science and actually hard. ;)
2013-02-15 12:40:09 PM
3 votes:

PhiloeBedoe: [i1079.photobucket.com image 400x300]


perishablepress.com
2013-02-15 02:01:31 PM
2 votes:
Hey I resent that remark, subby!
2013-02-15 01:53:27 PM
2 votes:

UberDave: Many students learn over the course of their studies that college is not a good match for them academically...

...So they go on to major in Business.


tvmedia.ign.com
2013-02-15 01:34:45 PM
2 votes:
www.reed.edu
2013-02-15 01:32:11 PM
2 votes:

limeyfellow: mamoru: ajgeek: UberDave: Many students learn over the course of their studies that college is not a good match for them academically...

...So they go on to major in Business.

/Runs from thread.

Or English, Liberal Arts, and for the ladies, Women's Studies.

/stands defiantly.

Or psychology. That was the big one for a lot of the dolphin huggers that dropped their marine biology major after discovering that it's actually science and actually hard. ;)

Don't be silly. Biology isn't real science. Only physics and chemistry is.


Biology is chemistry, chemistry is physics, physics is math, and math is boring.

/math and computer science
2013-02-15 01:14:43 PM
2 votes:
When I was colleging all my learn is.
2013-02-15 01:14:15 PM
2 votes:
palelizard:
If we don't support those degrees, how can I expect my coffee to be served with an unordered side of smug superiority and condescension?  Who will explain to me the power dynamic artificially represented by the tip jar is really just an extension of the philosophies behind Vaclav Havel's greatest works, and like all true absurdist situations, reflecting the opposite of reality to indicate that I, the advanced math degree consumer, am truly the powerless one, not only in the relationship between the barista and I, but in all subjective realities (as objective reality is a thought-construct of the powerless)?

Who will judge me?  I don't want it to be amateurs.



25.media.tumblr.com


Well f'in done.
/awesome
2013-02-15 03:56:37 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: Higher education isn't for everyone, true, but then stop employers from requiring college degrees for every single position.


Thanks to computer automation, jobs aren't for everyone, either :-/
2013-02-15 03:43:51 PM
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: Master Sphincter: Smackledorfer: Master Sphincter: 1. Finish high school as fast as possible
2. spend 2 years in a technical school and get a skill
3. get your bachelor's in a field that will use your technical skills
4.Profit

/maybe not profit in lot's of green, but in enough to live decently and some career satisfaction at least

That's nice.  The average college degree also results in a profit far above and beyond the cost of going to school.  Even the "bullshiat" ones like liberal arts.

So here is the thing: if you are going to advise someone based on the average result, then college is still a good suggestion for just most people capable of graduating.  If you are going to advise the masses based on society, as it seems people like you often do, then you have recognize that there is limited demand for the various "technical skills" in this country.  Plumbers may be doing quite well, but I've certainly never had trouble getting one to show up when I needed one.  What do you think happens to that trade when the number of them doubles? They will all get half the work, and be doing it for cheaper due to the competition for that work.

So it isn't some solution to the problems of society to tell everyone to stop getting those hurr durr libby arts majors and biatching about many people's interest in learning for its own sake.

It is really tiresome to see such a complicated problem as underemployment in a world of increasing globalized competition and robotic improvements be 'solved' with "hey ya'll, we can all get technical degrees".

You sound like you are deeply in debt

By what logic do you conclude that?

FWIW, my only debt is one mortgage for a condo that I'm turning a rental profit on (providing the market goes back up before  any major repairs kick in, but I should be good even then) and the waterfront home I live in (which doesn't make me wealthy, it makes me someone who lives in michigan where waterfront is affordable for the middle class).  The first mor ...


Wait.. Are you biatching about people making assumptions about you? On the internet!!? How dare I?  You sound like you are in debt.
But thanks for providing me with the evidence to the contrary.

/surprised you didn't include notarized copies of your statements
2013-02-15 02:02:23 PM
1 votes:

kwame: WhippingBoy: You said "What's cute is how you don't even understand the number of things wrong with that comment." and then failed to provide a single example of anything that was "wrong".

That's all I was getting at.

It's mostly because this statement gets tossed around in every higher education thread.

I'll address the only one I do every time.  The rest I'm tired of posting.  "Liberal arts" encompasses chemistry, math, anthropology, economics, physics, history, and many more.  To claim that's where academically incompetent students run is really ignorant


There, that wasn't so hard, was it?

I do see your point. Instead of "Liberal Arts", what should we call the "useless" majors then? (e.g. English Lit, Psychology, Gender Studies, Philosophy, etc.). "Humanities"? "Soft sciences"? "Starbucks U?"
2013-02-15 01:49:13 PM
1 votes:

kwame: You have a large number of imaginary people as a sample group?  That's not very sound science.


He also complaints about physicists based on imaginary versions of them. Then he backtracks his ranting at clouds by imagining a different group it is pointed out how stupid what he said was.

Valiente:I was using "physicist" in the sense of a trope (a kinda English-major word) to express a "Big Bang" type of scientist who is great on theory and poor in practice. I should have used "cultural studies M.A.".
 
If these anti-education threads aren't full of trolls, then there are an awful lot more "so I told that teachin' lady the only letters I need to know are U, S, and A" folks than I ever realized.
2013-02-15 01:46:21 PM
1 votes:

limeyfellow: mamoru: ajgeek: UberDave: Many students learn over the course of their studies that college is not a good match for them academically...

...So they go on to major in Business.

/Runs from thread.

Or English, Liberal Arts, and for the ladies, Women's Studies.

/stands defiantly.

Or psychology. That was the big one for a lot of the dolphin huggers that dropped their marine biology major after discovering that it's actually science and actually hard. ;)

Don't be silly. Biology isn't real science. Only physics and chemistry is.



Biology is Applied Chemistry, and much more fun than learning Organic Chemistry.

/O-chem sucked
//except for the lab fires
2013-02-15 01:42:58 PM
1 votes:

Master Sphincter: 1. Finish high school as fast as possible
2. spend 2 years in a technical school and get a skill
3. get your bachelor's in a field that will use your technical skills
4.Profit

/maybe not profit in lot's of green, but in enough to live decently and some career satisfaction at least


That's nice.  The average college degree also results in a profit far above and beyond the cost of going to school.  Even the "bullshiat" ones like liberal arts.

So here is the thing: if you are going to advise someone based on the average result, then college is still a good suggestion for just most people capable of graduating.  If you are going to advise the masses based on society, as it seems people like you often do, then you have recognize that there is limited demand for the various "technical skills" in this country.  Plumbers may be doing quite well, but I've certainly never had trouble getting one to show up when I needed one.  What do you think happens to that trade when the number of them doubles? They will all get half the work, and be doing it for cheaper due to the competition for that work.

So it isn't some solution to the problems of society to tell everyone to stop getting those hurr durr libby arts majors and biatching about many people's interest in learning for its own sake.

It is really tiresome to see such a complicated problem as underemployment in a world of increasing globalized competition and robotic improvements be 'solved' with "hey ya'll, we can all get technical degrees".
2013-02-15 01:40:08 PM
1 votes:
Jesus you guys are completely full of shiat, and none of you is as intelligent as you think you are.
2013-02-15 01:39:59 PM
1 votes:

Nurglitch


Assume a spherical computer science student...


of uniform density...
2013-02-15 01:36:41 PM
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: Random Anonymous Blackmail: It is because they are farking lazy but no mention that American collegial acceptance is not based upon anything aside from your check clearing.

I'm sorry you went to a terrible university.  Not everyone did, though.

Valiente: I've needed more plumbers than physicists in my life

Very unlikely, unless you only count personal encounters.  But if plumbing technology hadn't advanced in the past 50 years, your life would be pretty similar.  You might have to know more about fixing stuff around your house if we had vanishingly few plumbers, but you could probably get by.

If physics hadn't advanced in the past 50 years, you probably couldn't afford the computer to type that post, let alone the Internet connection.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x422]


In all fairness, he said *NEED*.

I could live my life quite well without a computer.  In fact, I *HAVE* done so, albeit when I was kid.   I can't think of a way that my life would be measurably worse without a computer.  I'd have to do calculations by hand.  So what?  I've got a few slide rules around, and I've built mechanical calculators out of LEGOs.   I've even got a manual typewriter:

oi47.tinypic.com


My life would be measurably worse without tradesmen like plumbers, auto mechanics, and the like.  I don't have the skills or the tools to do most repairs on my car, for example.

/Friends with tradesmen.
2013-02-15 01:34:46 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: If you tell someone your major, and they ask you "what are you going to do with that?", and you can't describe your plans and goals in exquisite detail, then college isn't for you.



I can't fully describe what plans I have with my PhD* in physics.  I guess college isn't for me?

*to be acquired in the near future
2013-02-15 01:29:37 PM
1 votes:

Felgraf: Valiente: Redneck jokes aside, we should have built far more technical colleges than universities in the last 30 years, and we never should have pulled apart the time-honoured practice of trades apprenticeship.

We still have apprenticeship.

It's called "Graduate school".

/You've also probably got far, far more of a need for a physicist than you think. You just don't need to interact with one *directly*


You're right. I was using "physicist" in the sense of a trope (a kinda English-major word) to express a "Big Bang" type of scientist who is great on theory and poor in practice. I should have used "cultural studies M.A.".

Not everyone should be in college, and it is arguable that allowing more people in has not only lowered the bar overmuch in the name of "equality", but has wasted a great deal of time and money that would've been better spent in more productive ways. I only have thousands of embittered and indebted 30 year old  liberal-arts-degree-possessing baristas as my sample group, however.
2013-02-15 01:27:17 PM
1 votes:

kwame: WhippingBoy: Wow. Your debating skills are superlative. I'm guessing English or Women's Studies major.

I'm not in a debate with you.  You haven't established anything except to make an inflammatory comment.  Plus, you're an asshole.


Brave Sir kwame ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
2013-02-15 01:23:31 PM
1 votes:
"No, Alex, you are not greater than Phillip, for he fought men and farked women."  Pretty brave words to say to the boss.  Given the chance to unsay it, he refused and was executed.
2013-02-15 01:23:11 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: Wow. Your debating skills are superlative. I'm guessing English or Women's Studies major.


I'm not in a debate with you.  You haven't established anything except to make an inflammatory comment.  Plus, you're an asshole.
2013-02-15 01:14:22 PM
1 votes:

kwame: ajgeek: Or English, Liberal Arts, and for the ladies, Women's Studies.

What's cute is how you don't even understand the number of things wrong with that comment.

Random Anonymous Blackmail: It is because they are farking lazy but no mention that American collegial acceptance is not based upon anything aside from your check clearing.

You're so full of sh*t I can smell it through the monitor.


Making spurious claims without actually explaining yourself just makes you look like a Grade A Moran. And it makes baby Jesus cry.
2013-02-15 01:03:00 PM
1 votes:
"A large part is contributed to the academic or grade performance being worse then they expected; they just weren't prepared," he said.

Read more at:http://phys.org/news/2013-02-dropouts-werent.html#jCp

 Ironically the grammar in this article is worse than expected, for an article that discusses lack of academic aptitude.
2013-02-15 01:00:05 PM
1 votes:
If you tell someone your major, and they ask you "what are you going to do with that?", and you can't describe your plans and goals in exquisite detail, then college isn't for you.
2013-02-15 12:55:07 PM
1 votes:
ha ha...rural people are uneducated! ha ha!


/I'd like to see you grow an acre of corn, Winthorp.
2013-02-15 12:53:52 PM
1 votes:
25.media.tumblr.com

Some foke'll never eat a skunk but then again some fokel, like Cletus, the slack jawed yokel!
2013-02-15 12:51:55 PM
1 votes:
"It could be if I knew two years before that science at university is going to be much harder than science in high school, perhaps I can change my behaviour then.

Now there's some optimism.
2013-02-15 12:46:11 PM
1 votes:
Redneck jokes aside, we should have built far more technical colleges than universities in the last 30 years, and we never should have pulled apart the time-honoured practice of trades apprenticeship.

I've needed more plumbers than physicists in my life, and I have never needed someone with a PhD in Dyke Consciousness and a minor in The Light Comedy of Sylvia Plath.. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, but it's been easier to teach myself welding and small engine repair than to try and find someone qualified under $100/hr. Even with inflation, that's still hooker money to me.

North America is now officially the "C Ship" Douglas Adams warned us about.
2013-02-15 12:36:19 PM
1 votes:
Drop out of college, then the rigors of college aren't for you.

Drop out of high school, then the lazy teachers and failed system wouldn't help the poor little snowflake sufficiently.
2013-02-15 12:34:41 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, but don't you go tryin' to tell them about no global warmin'  Their's opinion is jus' as good as yours and what makes you so smart anyway?
 
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