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(US Army)   Mouth device being developed by US Army shown to treat TBI, Parkinsons, and Multiple Sclerosis. Still no cure for budget cuts   (army.mil) divider line 99
    More: Interesting, mental functions, austerities, multiple sclerosis, U.S. Naval Academy, University of Wisconsin, clinical trials, cure, Montel Williams  
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6119 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Feb 2013 at 10:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-15 11:06:38 AM  

Shadowknight: umad: VoodooTaco: Plus, using the Internet to whine about research being funneled through the DoD makes me sad, facepalm.

This. The people that biatch about DoD research aren't any better than the morons who biatch about NASA. The side effect in both cases is that we get cool shiat.

I'm not complaining, exactly.  While I am sure there are a couple peaceful outcomes to designing yet another missile (improved guidance systems, propulsion systems, new fuels to possibly extend the space program), the main thrust of this research is just to kill more people more efficiently.

It's nice to see some of this going to medical research and fixing those broken to support our endless forays into the battlefield.


I get where you're coming from, but would like to offer something to chew on.   Much of our advances in defense are designed for posturing purposes, and specifically to avoid killing more people.  The nuclear race for example - the threat of mutually assured distruction has specifically avoided war (Cold War) and has forced us to pursue nonviolent diplomatic solutions.  As a force, (especially the Navy), we engage in force projection.  (Not that I personally think we do but - ) why do we need 11 carriers?  To project force and deter other nations from acting hostile.  The advances and advantages we have earned can help us deterr conflict.

Clearly, this is not always the case - which is why I understand your point.  While in an ideal world we'd pump all our research into industry and academia, the fact remains that we will advance our military technology to keep pace with our (potential) adversaries because we will have conflict.  As I see it, pumping R&D into defense kills threebirds with one stone; advancing science and tech in general, and keeping us out of conflict (as much as possible), and shortening conflict once we're in it (due to superior technology).
 
2013-02-15 11:07:40 AM  

Carn: My mom was recently diagnosed with early stage Parkinson's.  I hope this baby gets approved quickly!


Agreed.  My FIL was diagnosed with Parkinson's several years ago, and has had a lot of improvement with drugs, but if you watch the videos of Parkinson's patients from this trial, they look and sound great.
 
2013-02-15 11:08:41 AM  

Shadowknight: I'm a paramedic.  My profession directly benefits from this kind of research.  I would just rather it not have to come with the price of blood of service members.  I've been to the funeral of two friends of mine since the start of Iraq, and a third that lost a foot and almost his life.  While I'm thankful that we've improved the care, it's of small solace.  

Again, it's the idealist in me.


 Wait till you see the mobile, virtual-surgery units the Army is working on.  Virtual surgery rooms in the back of an ambulance.  The surgeons could be in San Antonio and the patient in New York, and the docs can perform surgery from a distance using robotics and video.  You will be able to perform surgery on a patient WHILE they're being transported to the hospital.
 
2013-02-15 11:10:09 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: squidgod2000: Well, I hope MRMC keeps this going after their 9% budget cut.

 It's getting very ugly on the funding side.  Not only have we not been given 2013 money, they're now TAKING BACK 2012 money that hasn't already been spent (originally had till Sept2013 to spend it). This sequester is killing DoD research.


Tell me about it.  If this doesn't get fixed I don't see how they can keep test centers open.
 
2013-02-15 11:11:07 AM  

umad: The research that goes into how to best kill who you want to kill without killing civilians or allies is why we have things like GPS and the internet. You're probably right though. We should go back to carpet bombing.


Since those things wouldn't have been invented without the Pentagon.

CPT Ethanolic: War is a reality.  And you would be amazed at how many soldiers/sailors/marines now survive battlefield injuries that would have been lethal 10 years ago.  Last time I was at ISR, we had a Marine arrive missing both arms and a leg.  The injury happened 48 hours prior in Afghanistan, and within those 48 hours he had been transported from the battlefield to San Antonio and stabilized.  When you see things like that, you realize that it's research money well spent.  Until you figure out a way to end wars, I'm all for spending money to reduce mortality/morbidity in the wounded.  And the same technology that saved this Marine is being used daily to save people injured in things like car accidents.


Those advances make war more palatable to Americans. Just like the advent of drones - they cloak the true human cost of warfare, especially since Americans don't care much for how terrible we make the lives of our targets (who typically don't benefit from the spoils of our research).
`
You're still not grappling with the main point, which is that it's ludicrous to have to fund research through the Pentagon because the only sacrosanct government spending is on the military.
 
2013-02-15 11:12:05 AM  

VoodooTaco: I get where you're coming from, but would like to offer something to chew on.   Much of our advances in defense are designed for posturing purposes, and specifically to avoid killing more people.  The nuclear race for example - the threat of mutually assured distruction has specifically avoided war (Cold War) and has forced us to pursue nonviolent diplomatic solutions.  As a force, (especially the Navy), we engage in force projection.  (Not that I personally think we do but - ) why do we need 11 carriers?  To project force and deter other nations from acting hostile.  The advances and advantages we have earned can help us deterr conflict.

Clearly, this is not always the case - which is why I understand your point.  While in an ideal world we'd pump all our research into industry and academia, the fact remains that we will advance our military technology to keep pace with our (potential) adversaries because we will have conflict.  As I see it, pumping R&D into defense kills threebirds with one stone; advancing science and tech in general, and keeping us out of conflict (as much as possible), and shortening conflict once we're in it (due to superior technology).


No, I get all that.  My wife is a Naval Officer, and I've been married into the military for 13 years now.  I was a police officer and now a paramedic.  I am also a huge history buff.  I get the realities of life and human nature and that of war. 

It's really just my liberal, idealistic musings.  I'm just glad something like this came out, to give me hope that we aren't just a particularly smart species of ape destined to kill ourselves.
 
2013-02-15 11:13:53 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: Wait till you see the mobile, virtual-surgery units the Army is working on.  Virtual surgery rooms in the back of an ambulance.  The surgeons could be in San Antonio and the patient in New York, and the docs can perform surgery from a distance using robotics and video.  You will be able to perform surgery on a patient WHILE they're being transported to the hospital.


I can't even get my ToughBook to work in the ambulance half the time.  I can't imagine what would happen if the connection went out half way though an appendectomy.
 
2013-02-15 11:14:44 AM  

TofuTheAlmighty: You're still not grappling with the main point, which is that it's ludicrous to have to fund research through the Pentagon because the only sacrosanct government spending is on the military.


 Uhm, that's the Pentagons job.  The government also funds through NIH, NSF, etc, which are not war-related.  Of course money going through the Pentagon will be used for combat related research.  The Pentagon isn't interested in curing cancer.
 
2013-02-15 11:16:50 AM  
That's very different than the mouth device many of them are currently using.

www.gunshopfinder.com
 
2013-02-15 11:16:56 AM  

Shadowknight: CPT Ethanolic: Wait till you see the mobile, virtual-surgery units the Army is working on.  Virtual surgery rooms in the back of an ambulance.  The surgeons could be in San Antonio and the patient in New York, and the docs can perform surgery from a distance using robotics and video.  You will be able to perform surgery on a patient WHILE they're being transported to the hospital.

I can't even get my ToughBook to work in the ambulance half the time.  I can't imagine what would happen if the connection went out half way though an appendectomy.


Citywide medically dedicated wi-fi systems.
 
2013-02-15 11:17:57 AM  

Shadowknight: VoodooTaco: I get where you're coming from, but would like to offer something to chew on.   Much of our advances in defense are designed for posturing purposes, and specifically to avoid killing more people.  The nuclear race for example - the threat of mutually assured distruction has specifically avoided war (Cold War) and has forced us to pursue nonviolent diplomatic solutions.  As a force, (especially the Navy), we engage in force projection.  (Not that I personally think we do but - ) why do we need 11 carriers?  To project force and deter other nations from acting hostile.  The advances and advantages we have earned can help us deterr conflict.

Clearly, this is not always the case - which is why I understand your point.  While in an ideal world we'd pump all our research into industry and academia, the fact remains that we will advance our military technology to keep pace with our (potential) adversaries because we will have conflict.  As I see it, pumping R&D into defense kills threebirds with one stone; advancing science and tech in general, and keeping us out of conflict (as much as possible), and shortening conflict once we're in it (due to superior technology).

No, I get all that.  My wife is a Naval Officer, and I've been married into the military for 13 years now.  I was a police officer and now a paramedic.  I am also a huge history buff.  I get the realities of life and human nature and that of war. 

It's really just my liberal, idealistic musings.  I'm just glad something like this came out, to give me hope that we aren't just a particularly smart species of ape destined to kill ourselves.


I think it's a safe bet that we're not all that particularly smart....

Understand all though.  Myself, I'm still trying to come to terms with being a socialist war-hawk.

/Score one for the bio-medical engineers regardless of funding.
 
2013-02-15 11:18:12 AM  

Girion47: Citywide medically dedicated wi-fi systems.


"He's crashing!  Quick, reset the router!  Are all the lights blinking?!"
 
2013-02-15 11:19:28 AM  

Shadowknight: Girion47: Citywide medically dedicated wi-fi systems.

"He's crashing!  Quick, reset the router!  Are all the lights blinking?!"


I used to do Tier 2 support for an ISP.  I seriously just LOL'd over that.
 
2013-02-15 11:20:10 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: Uhm, that's the Pentagons job.  The government also funds through NIH, NSF, etc, which are not war-related.  Of course money going through the Pentagon will be used for combat related research.  The Pentagon isn't interested in curing cancer.


Do you work at being obtuse or does it come naturally?
 
2013-02-15 11:21:09 AM  

Shadowknight: ginandbacon: You do understand that medical research has been one of the main thrusts of funding disbursement for years now, right? With our massively improved emergency medicine, more of our injured troops are surviving their injuries and require very intensive, and very expensive care.

I'm a paramedic.  My profession directly benefits from this kind of research.  I would just rather it not have to come with the price of blood of service members.  I've been to the funeral of two friends of mine since the start of Iraq, and a third that lost a foot and almost his life.  While I'm thankful that we've improved the care, it's of small solace.  

Again, it's the idealist in me.


Fair enough. I get that perspective.
 
2013-02-15 11:28:28 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: squidgod2000: Well, I hope MRMC keeps this going after their 9% budget cut.

 It's getting very ugly on the funding side.  Not only have we not been given 2013 money, they're now TAKING BACK 2012 money that hasn't already been spent (originally had till Sept2013 to spend it). This sequester is killing DoD research.


Yeah, the big problem isn't the budget cut, it's that DoD isn't allowed to move the cuts around--it has to take equally from all areas. Panetta and Dempsey have both said that DoD and the military could weather sequestration much more easily (and without seriously impacting readiness) if they were allowed to reshape where the cuts come from. Add to that the fact that we're still working under a CR which sends a lot of money to a lot of areas where it isn't needed anymore.
 
2013-02-15 11:28:47 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: The Pentagon isn't interested in curing cancer.


Oh, and to illustrate my point even further - DoD breast cancer research program
 
2013-02-15 11:31:12 AM  

Shadowknight: for once, it would be nice for a major leap like that to be made with government money that DOESN'T have it's main goal in blowing something up or making a lot of people dead.  It's the idealist in me, I know, but I'd love to see the general intent be one of peace for a change.


To be fair, this kind of research is to help fix people that others tried to blow up or kill, so it'd be necessary and militarily useful even if the USA was as pacifist as possible (e.g. we only ever fought against armies that invaded our territory).

I'll agree that it'd be nicer if it was easier to fund such things non-militarily.
 
2013-02-15 11:33:51 AM  

TofuTheAlmighty: You're still not grappling with the main point, which is that it's ludicrous to have to fund research through the Pentagon because the only sacrosanct government spending is on the military.


You're not grappling with the main point. The DoD pisses away plenty of money on useless wars and unneeded shiat that could be put to better use. Their research spending is NOT the part you should be biatching about.
 
2013-02-15 11:35:08 AM  

squidgod2000: CPT Ethanolic: squidgod2000: Well, I hope MRMC keeps this going after their 9% budget cut.

 It's getting very ugly on the funding side.  Not only have we not been given 2013 money, they're now TAKING BACK 2012 money that hasn't already been spent (originally had till Sept2013 to spend it). This sequester is killing DoD research.

Yeah, the big problem isn't the budget cut, it's that DoD isn't allowed to move the cuts around--it has to take equally from all areas. Panetta and Dempsey have both said that DoD and the military could weather sequestration much more easily (and without seriously impacting readiness) if they were allowed to reshape where the cuts come from. Add to that the fact that we're still working under a CR which sends a lot of money to a lot of areas where it isn't needed anymore.


This bigtime.

Surgical cuts with scalpal tend to be a bit more effective than skimming a slice off the top with battle axe we're being given.  Plus the CR thing as you said.
 
2013-02-15 11:36:56 AM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Oh, and to illustrate my point even further - DoD breast cancer research program


Go look a the first 2 words in the acronym CDMRP.  There's a lot of stuff that comes as CSI's (congressional special interests) that isn't necessarily what the army would be doing if not told to.
 
2013-02-15 11:40:07 AM  
I wonder if this would help those with Huntington's Disease.  Symptoms are very similiar to MS and Parkinsons.  Either way this is very exciting news!!
 
2013-02-15 12:16:05 PM  

Girion47: Citywide medically dedicated wi-fi systems.


All right, who let the socialist commie fascist in here?
 
2013-02-15 12:42:13 PM  

Girion47: I used to do Tier 2 support for an ISP.  I seriously just LOL'd over that.


Well, the other problem would be actually setting up such a system.  Outside of Google, I don't see anyone in the private system really TRYING to expand broadband access.  And in our current state of public opinion, any spending by the government that isn't directly for war is socialist evil nonsense.  We can't even pay for healthcare for our own citizens because of this attitude.  

I can't see a city-wide wifi setup, even if just for medical use.
 
2013-02-15 12:44:00 PM  

Shadowknight: Girion47: I used to do Tier 2 support for an ISP.  I seriously just LOL'd over that.

Well, the other problem would be actually setting up such a system.  Outside of Google, I don't see anyone in the private system really TRYING to expand broadband access.  And in our current state of public opinion, any spending by the government that isn't directly for war is socialist evil nonsense.  We can't even pay for healthcare for our own citizens because of this attitude.  

I can't see a city-wide wifi setup, even if just for medical use.


do it under the guise of public safety/police.  That funding always goes through.
 
2013-02-15 12:44:45 PM  

Shadowknight: Well, the other problem would be actually setting up such a system.  Outside of Google, I don't see anyone in the private system really TRYING to expand broadband access.  And in our current state of public opinion, any spending by the government that isn't directly for war is socialist evil nonsense.  We can't even pay for healthcare for our own citizens because of this attitude.  

I can't see a city-wide wifi setup, even if just for medical use.


 It's being developed - that's a fact.  ISR is working on this.  Not sure the details on infrastructure, but this tech is being developed and has been for a few years now.
 
2013-02-15 12:48:07 PM  

Girion47: do it under the guise of public safety/police.  That funding always goes through.


Oh, I remember all the money we got after 9/11.  The local and state government officials couldn't WAIT to give us money.  I also remember the massive payroll cuts and layoffs once as the hero-smell wore off and people stopped paying attention.  Those same politicians were coming at us for "wasteful spending" on things like replacement ambulances with 400k miles on it.

The network would be built, but incredibly poorly maintained.  Only improvements or upkeep would happen after someone got killed because of it.  Politicians would beat their drums, raise their political stock to their next office, and the cycle of cuts would begin again.

/cynical
 
2013-02-15 12:49:14 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: It's being developed - that's a fact.  ISR is working on this.  Not sure the details on infrastructure, but this tech is being developed and has been for a few years now.


See comment above to Girion47.  I'm too cynical at this point to have faith in it until the general public already has it and we just piggyback off of it.
 
2013-02-15 12:53:19 PM  

Shadowknight: CPT Ethanolic: It's being developed - that's a fact.  ISR is working on this.  Not sure the details on infrastructure, but this tech is being developed and has been for a few years now.

See comment above to Girion47.  I'm too cynical at this point to have faith in it until the general public already has it and we just piggyback off of it.


 It will almost certainly be fielded for military first - and that will solve the internet/communication concerns as we have dedicated satellites/bandwidth.  But I've been in the development meetings and it's definitely planned to be rolled out for civilian at some point.  There's a lot of amazing tech that is right now at the military research level that will be hitting civilian centers eventually.  Wait till you see what we're doing with stem cells.  Was at a meeting last week regarding a device that can isolate stem cells from blood, then be used to treat burns with the patients own skin.  We were just in the news a few weeks ago for doing a double arm replacement.  This is all because of the last 10 years of war.
 
2013-02-15 01:00:21 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Shadowknight: CPT Ethanolic: It's being developed - that's a fact.  ISR is working on this.  Not sure the details on infrastructure, but this tech is being developed and has been for a few years now.

See comment above to Girion47.  I'm too cynical at this point to have faith in it until the general public already has it and we just piggyback off of it.

 It will almost certainly be fielded for military first - and that will solve the internet/communication concerns as we have dedicated satellites/bandwidth.  But I've been in the development meetings and it's definitely planned to be rolled out for civilian at some point.  There's a lot of amazing tech that is right now at the military research level that will be hitting civilian centers eventually.  Wait till you see what we're doing with stem cells.  Was at a meeting last week regarding a device that can isolate stem cells from blood, then be used to treat burns with the patients own skin.  We were just in the news a few weeks ago for doing a double arm replacement.  This is all because of the last 10 years of war.


You aren't under Public Health Command are you?
 
2013-02-15 01:07:07 PM  

Girion47: You aren't under Public Health Command are you?


Nope,  Medical Research and Materiel Command.  We manage the funding that goes out to various civilian and military research centers.  I'm a little more involved in this one because we're moving into FDA approval.
 
2013-02-15 01:31:17 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: You aren't under Public Health Command are you?

Nope,  Medical Research and Materiel Command.  We manage the funding that goes out to various civilian and military research centers.  I'm a little more involved in this one because we're moving into FDA approval.


If you guys ever need Safety/IH support let me know.  We have a team of 120 right now headed by two former colonels and a former major.
 
2013-02-15 01:38:14 PM  

Girion47: If you guys ever need Safety/IH support let me know.  We have a team of 120 right now headed by two former colonels and a former major.


  If the funding keeps decreasing the way it is, maybe you need a "former CPT"!
 
2013-02-15 01:41:01 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: If you guys ever need Safety/IH support let me know.  We have a team of 120 right now headed by two former colonels and a former major.

  If the funding keeps decreasing the way it is, maybe you need a "former CPT"!


Do you have a B.S.?   Passed Organic Chemistry?   They'll take you!
 
2013-02-15 01:46:23 PM  

Girion47: CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: If you guys ever need Safety/IH support let me know.  We have a team of 120 right now headed by two former colonels and a former major.

  If the funding keeps decreasing the way it is, maybe you need a "former CPT"!

Do you have a B.S.?   Passed Organic Chemistry?   They'll take you!


PhD in Biochemistry & Cell Biology.  If they're accepting B.S. level degrees, probably below my pay grade.  I used to teach organic chemistry.
 
2013-02-15 01:51:37 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Since those things wouldn't have been invented without the Pentagon.


are you being sarcastic?


You're still not grappling with the main point, which is that it's ludicrous to have to fund research through the Pentagon because the only sacrosanct government spending is on the military.

no, you're just threadshiatting. no one disagrees that funding priorities is broken, but it's been like this since ww2. another nice thing is coming out of a broken system, don't be debbie downer.
 
2013-02-15 01:52:36 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: If you guys ever need Safety/IH support let me know.  We have a team of 120 right now headed by two former colonels and a former major.

  If the funding keeps decreasing the way it is, maybe you need a "former CPT"!

Do you have a B.S.?   Passed Organic Chemistry?   They'll take you!

PhD in Biochemistry & Cell Biology.  If they're accepting B.S. level degrees, probably below my pay grade.  I used to teach organic chemistry.


They're accepting BS level stuff for IH 1's.   With that education and experience you'd probably be a program manager.
 
2013-02-15 01:56:42 PM  

Girion47: CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: If you guys ever need Safety/IH support let me know.  We have a team of 120 right now headed by two former colonels and a former major.

  If the funding keeps decreasing the way it is, maybe you need a "former CPT"!

Do you have a B.S.?   Passed Organic Chemistry?   They'll take you!

PhD in Biochemistry & Cell Biology.  If they're accepting B.S. level degrees, probably below my pay grade.  I used to teach organic chemistry.

They're accepting BS level stuff for IH 1's.   With that education and experience you'd probably be a program manager.


 That's actually my current job.  I'm program manager for the above linked device.  Is this a civilian job?
 
2013-02-15 02:12:24 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: If you guys ever need Safety/IH support let me know.  We have a team of 120 right now headed by two former colonels and a former major.

  If the funding keeps decreasing the way it is, maybe you need a "former CPT"!

Do you have a B.S.?   Passed Organic Chemistry?   They'll take you!

PhD in Biochemistry & Cell Biology.  If they're accepting B.S. level degrees, probably below my pay grade.  I used to teach organic chemistry.

They're accepting BS level stuff for IH 1's.   With that education and experience you'd probably be a program manager.

 That's actually my current job.  I'm program manager for the above linked device.  Is this a civilian job?


Yes, but the majority of work we do is military research.
 
2013-02-15 02:23:56 PM  

Girion47: Yes, but the majority of work we do is military research.


Do you have links?
 
2013-02-15 02:27:47 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: Yes, but the majority of work we do is military research.

Do you have links?


EIP, I can send you some.
 
2013-02-15 02:38:59 PM  

Girion47: EIP


 If you can post them that would be great.  I'm not looking to post any of my email contacts here and no idea if fark does PMs.
 
2013-02-15 02:48:07 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: EIP

 If you can post them that would be great.  I'm not looking to post any of my email contacts here and no idea if fark does PMs.


Fark doesn't do PM's but my email address is in my profile.  I'm willing to send you the stuff via email, just not comfortable throwing it out into the forum.
 
2013-02-15 03:12:34 PM  

Girion47: CPT Ethanolic: Girion47: EIP

 If you can post them that would be great.  I'm not looking to post any of my email contacts here and no idea if fark does PMs.

Fark doesn't do PM's but my email address is in my profile.  I'm willing to send you the stuff via email, just not comfortable throwing it out into the forum.


Email sent.
 
2013-02-15 03:17:51 PM  

darwinpolice: Jeff_Reisberg: A pity they don't have a "device" that "treats" the homosexual disorder.

Who needs a device when you have prayer?


Good point. It's still a shame they have to let them in in the first place.
 
2013-02-15 03:18:07 PM  
Was just sent another amazing video about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QqSxFqBnMA
 
2013-02-15 06:04:48 PM  
A Mouth device?

/relevant
i.imgur.com
 
2013-02-15 06:53:56 PM  
CPT Ethanolic- Could this have an analogous effect on Alzheimer's patients?
 
2013-02-15 06:59:04 PM  

Wenchmaster: CPT Ethanolic- Could this have an analogous effect on Alzheimer's patients?


No data, so no way to tell.
 
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